Very insightful article...

[Alkamista]

...about how modern video games like the FIFA series are silently
doing a tremendous PR job for the sport in new markets.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/relegationzone/id/291?cc=5901

I can completely relate: When I moved to the US as a college freshman
knowing nothing about American Football, it was a Nintendo video game
that first taught me the basic rules of the sport and got me curious
about the big stars. I remain a big fan of the sport two decades later.

[Baldoni]

on 25/09/2012, Alkamista supposed :

--
"Ce n'est qu'un début, continuons le combat !"

Count Baldoni

[Benny]

Kick-Off on the Amiga is the reason I'm a fan. It was of course
developed by an ITALIAN and to this day has the best mechanics of any
football game. FIFA is primitive, despite all the bells and whistles.
The physics and AI are an absolute joke. PES is better but they keep
screwing up the shooting. You can make that argument for most
videogames. Developers are morons. They must get these idiots straight
out of University and they make the same damn mistakes developers made
20 years ago.

--
http://soccer-europe.com
http://soccer-europe.com/RSS/News.xml
http://www.dailymotion.com/HDCalcio
https://twitter.com/calcioeurope

[Sven Mischkies]

Benny <Be...@soccer-europe.com> wrote:

> Kick-Off on the Amiga is the reason I'm a fan.

Kick Off is still the most enjoyable football game I ever played. Never
tried PES.

But of course I was a fan before - the first football game I ever played
was International Soccer II on the C64. :)


Ciao,
SM
--
Avoid Santander, the magic bank that makes money disappear.

[Clément]

"Sven Mischkies" escreveu:

> Benny wrote:
>
>> Kick-Off on the Amiga is the reason I'm a fan.
>
> Kick Off is still the most enjoyable football game I ever played.

Whoa, let me add to this. Despite the simple graphics (which were not an
issue at the time), it's still my favorite football game.

I didn't try too many different games, but, as Benny says, to me Kick Off's
mechanics are unmatched to this day.

Abraço,

Luiz Mello

[Benny]

On 26/09/2012 19:58, Sven Mischkies wrote:

> Kick Off is still the most enjoyable football game I ever played. Never
> tried PES.

You're not missing much. Probably the best version of PES was an early
Japanese release in around 1997 with J-League teams. The physics were
almost perfect.

[MH]

On 12-09-26 12:58 PM, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> Benny <Be...@soccer-europe.com> wrote:
>
>> Kick-Off on the Amiga is the reason I'm a fan.
>
>
> Kick Off is still the most enjoyable football game I ever played. Never
> tried PES.

Never tried any of them except one feeble attempt at FIFA. Too old I
guess. But I fondly remember my days of playing Subbuteo !

[Benny]

On 26/09/2012 23:13, MH wrote:

>> Kick Off is still the most enjoyable football game I ever played. Never
>> tried PES.

> Never tried any of them except one feeble attempt at FIFA. Too old I
> guess. But I fondly remember my days of playing Subbuteo !

FIFA is rubbish. The mechanics were so bad it was the only game everyone
could beat me at! Age has nothing to do with it. My 50 year old friend
still plays. You play games at your own level, not everyone can be
awesome like me.

[The Scrutineer]

"Benny" wrote in message news:k3vrl6$gsn$1...@dont-email.me...

On 26/09/2012 19:58, Sven Mischkies wrote:

> Kick Off is still the most enjoyable football game I ever played. Never
> tried PES.
>
> You're not missing much. Probably the best version of PES was an early
> Japanese release in around 1997 with J-League teams. The physics were
> almost perfect.

PES is like five years ago, FIFA is the king now, and will be for a long
time unless there's some proper competition out there!!!

[The Scrutineer]

"Benny" wrote in message news:k4042p$3ia$1...@dont-email.me...

On 26/09/2012 23:13, MH wrote:

>> Kick Off is still the most enjoyable football game I ever played. Never
>> tried PES.

> Never tried any of them except one feeble attempt at FIFA. Too old I
> guess. But I fondly remember my days of playing Subbuteo !
>
> FIFA is rubbish. The mechanics were so bad it was the only game everyone
> could beat me at! Age has nothing to do with it. My 50 year old friend
> still plays. You play games at your own level, not everyone can be awesome
> like me.

Don't dish FIFA, unless you're still playing FIFA 99, when in that case,
it's your own fault!!!

[JG]

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:34:05 PM UTC-4, Alkamista wrote:

> I can completely relate: When I moved to the US as a college freshman
> knowing nothing about American Football, it was a Nintendo video game
> that first taught me the basic rules of the sport and got me curious
> about the big stars. I remain a big fan of the sport two decades later.

A few years ago I saw an article about a New Zealand team playing in the Junior WC of American Football in the US...the reporter was surprised to learn that only a few of the kids had rugby backgrounds, they'd all become interested in the sport from playing Madden on their Playstations.

I never really liked the soccer video games where you actually controlled the players. One-Nil was my ancient soccer management game of choice:
http://www.myabandonware.com/game/one-nil-soccer-manager-1ka

[Futbolmetrix]

On 9/26/2012 6:13 PM, MH wrote:
>
> Never tried any of them except one feeble attempt at FIFA. Too old I
> guess. But I fondly remember my days of playing Subbuteo !

Up with Subbuteo!

D

[Benny]

On 27/09/2012 01:30, The Scrutineer wrote:

> PES is like five years ago, FIFA is the king now, and will be for a long
> time unless there's some proper competition out there!!!

FIFA has never been king. FIFA appeals to children. It's all bells and
whistles, the mechanics are horrendous, the turning circle has been a
disaster since day one and they still haven't fixed it. PES plays a much
better game, you have a greater deal of control usually the shooting
lets it down.

[Werner Pichler]

I had one of these

http://www.cheva.cz/files/spolecenske-hry/CH12001.jpg?full

It was Czech, back when it was still Czechoslovakia and
behind the Iron Curtain, the springs broke all the time
(teaching the important message that some players are
duds), and I loved it. I'm delighted to find that it still exists,
practically unchanged.

Ciao,
Werner

[Sven Mischkies]

Never got these. I preferred (and still do) those:

<http://www.kickerbau.org/tl_files/kickerbau_org/img_projekt_1/no1_total
e_gross.jpg>

[Werner Pichler]

On Sep 27, 6:18 pm, hs...@der-ball-ist-rund.net (Sven Mischkies)
wrote:

> Werner Pichler <wpich...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 27, 12:58 pm, Futbolmetrix <futbolmet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On 9/26/2012 6:13 PM, MH wrote:
>
> > > > Never tried any of them except one feeble attempt at FIFA. Too old I
> > > > guess. But I fondly remember my days of playing Subbuteo !
>
> > > Up with Subbuteo!
>
> > > D
>
> > I had one of these
>
> >http://www.cheva.cz/files/spolecenske-hry/CH12001.jpg?full
>
> > It was Czech, back when it was still Czechoslovakia and
> > behind the Iron Curtain, the springs broke all the time
> > (teaching the important message that some players are
> > duds), and I loved it. I'm delighted to find that it still exists,
> > practically unchanged.
>
> Never got these. I preferred (and still do) those:
>
> <http://www.kickerbau.org/tl_files/kickerbau_org/img_projekt_1/no1_total
> e_gross.jpg>

Yes of course, those came later.

Ciao,
Werner


> Ciao,
>         SM
> --
> Avoid Santander, the magic bank that makes money disappear.- Hide quoted text -

[milivella]

My very personal opinion about some of the games that have been cited in
this thread (i.e. the opinion is based on my experience only: probably I
didn't really understand some of all of the games).

A football-playing _simulation_ game in strict sense would mean something
like controlling just one and the same player for the whole match. Some
games tried it, I've never seen it really working.

In a very broad sense, Kick Off 2 simulates playing as one player, Sensible
World of soccer playing as a team, since:
- Mastering KO2's dribbling and shooting makes you feel something like a
footballer mastering the same skills feels (I take someone else's word for
it, I never came close to mastering KO2!).
- Controlling individual SWOS controls - above all passing - is so easy that
you can watch where the other players are, anticipate what you'll do when
you'll pass to them and so control them, and at the same time anticipate
what the opponent players will do. You really think about the team, not the
single player. Easy example: when you play SWOS you feel like Liverpool
would feel yesterday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PtA-nFAeVg
if the Liverpool team was a single organism.
I cited feelings in both cases: it isn't an accident, both games (in
different ways, of course) bring you in the "zone".

Pro Evolution Soccer and FIFA have great graphics, but playing doesn't give
you feelings like the ones described above.

Subbuteo doesn't simulate anything, indeed it isn't related to football in
any way. I see it as a very interesting and fun variation on billiards.

--
Cheers
milivella

[Jesper Lauridsen]

On 2012-09-26, Sven Mischkies <hs...@der-ball-ist-rund.net> wrote:
>
> But of course I was a fan before - the first football game I ever played
> was International Soccer II on the C64. :)

There was a II? I played this one:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/c64/international-soccer_/screenshots
http://youtu.be/CVqCpjpDabM (I was a lot better than that guy)

I think my record was 11-0. With 200 seconds per half, getting more
than six goals in half was a challenge.

That was by far the game I played the most. I also enjoyed two other
C64 footie games, though I can't remember the names.

The first had the overhead view that's all rage these days. Might have
been the first game ever to do that. The game was structured around the
'86 WC in Mexico, the teams had different strengths and you could switch
teams during the tournament.

<google>
The game was Micropose Soccer.
http://www.lemon64.com/games/screenshots/ext_full/m/microprose_soccer_04.gif

The second had side view and was a bit slow. A unique feature was a two
player mode, where you were *on the same team*. Quite easy like that, as
the game allowed very effective obstruction; one player would run with the
ball, while the other would block any defenders away. On top of the screen
was a changing power bar, which decided how hard you shot. With the right
timing, you could score some great long range goals.

[Sven Mischkies]

Jesper Lauridsen <rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:

> On 2012-09-26, Sven Mischkies <hs...@der-ball-ist-rund.net> wrote:
> >
> > But of course I was a fan before - the first football game I ever played
> > was International Soccer II on the C64. :)
>
> There was a II? I played this one:

I knew it under two names, and got them mixed up:
Inernational Soccer = Soccer II, IIRC. There was also a IV with a wider
range of shots (short, normal and long).

>
> http://www.mobygames.com/game/c64/international-soccer_/screenshots
> http://youtu.be/CVqCpjpDabM (I was a lot better than that guy)

Yeah, no idea what he is doing there. IIRC there were two ways to
reliably score - a) run towards the keeper on a line slightly lower than
his position and then just turn up 45 degrees right before the goal to
score near the far post, and b) shoot at him from the bottom of the
screen (=get the angle where the keeper jumps up and not to the side,
but just miss the keeper).

> I think my record was 11-0. With 200 seconds per half, getting more
> than six goals in half was a challenge.
>
> That was by far the game I played the most.

Same here, it was quite enjoyable especially when playing it against
human opponents. It was from 1982, and the best football game until Kick
Off came out, IMHO - so you kept going back to it.

Wonder what happened to Andrew Spencer. :)

[milivella]

milivella:

> Subbuteo doesn't simulate anything, indeed it isn't related to football in
> any way. I see it as a very interesting and fun variation on billiards.

After my first four games _played according to the official rules_ I'm not
sure about it anymore. I'm sure Subbuteo is great fun, though (especially
when you come back from 0-1 with seven minutes to go to 4-1!).

--
Cheers
milivella