Stop the press, Arsenal made a big signing!!

[alka...@hotmail.com]

Mesut Ozil for 50m euros.....ooooh big spender this Wenger fella!

Problem is, isn't it the position they least needed reinforcements in? With Cazorla, Wilshire, Arteta, Ramsey, Podolski, Walnutt, and Oxtail-Chambermaid all capable of playing similar positions.

Great player to be fair but seems like another desperate last minute signal of intent to their fans from Johnny-come-lately Wenger. A striker or a defensive player would have been a more suitable addition.

[Sven Mischkies]

<alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Mesut Ozil for 50m euros.....ooooh big spender this Wenger fella!

Fuck. There goes his career. This is bad news for Germany.

> Problem is, isn't it the position they least needed reinforcements in?
> With Cazorla, Wilshire, Arteta, Ramsey, Podolski, Walnutt, and
> Oxtail-Chambermaid all capable of playing similar positions.

You forgot Rosicky. But maybe him and Wil(t)shire should share the same
spot...

> Great player to be fair but seems like another desperate last minute
> signal of intent to their fans from Johnny-come-lately Wenger. A striker
> or a defensive player would have been a more suitable addition.

Yes. The transfer makes no sense, unless he considers Arteta, Ramsey,
Rosicky as past it or for more defensive positions.


Ciao,
SM
--
Avoid Santander, the magic bank that makes money disappear.

[alka...@hotmail.com]

Wenger probably does, at least the first two, but these guys are powder-puff for those positions. They need a Vieira/Song type, and Flamini isn't that person. Why didn't they just try to get out-of-favor Song back from Barca?

[Mark V.]

Yeah, I'm already hoping this guy does SO well that they can ship him and his wages to PSG or Man City in a couple of years for a hefty fee. Big money signings by ANYONE already make me upchuck in my mouth a bit. With a club like Arsenal's injury record, well, you know...

I have a feeling that there will be another announcement or two, though.

[Clément]

"Mark V." escreveu:

> I have a feeling that there will be another announcement or two, though.

Same feeling here, even though the few rumored names are not about defensive
quality/depth either.

Be as it may, I'm happy about the Özil signing. Not because it's a big one
(I don't care about that), but because I like the player.

Abraço,

Luiz Mello

[Sven Mischkies]

Cl�ment <lcmello...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> Be as it may, I'm happy about the �zil signing. Not because it's a big one

> (I don't care about that), but because I like the player.

That is why I don't like it. ;)

[Mark V.]

On Monday, September 2, 2013 11:04:20 AM UTC-7, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> Clément <> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Be as it may, I'm happy about the Özil signing. Not because it's a big one

>
> > (I don't care about that), but because I like the player.
>

> That is why I don't like it. ;)
>

> Ciao,
>
> SM

Why the concern for his national team standing? Arsenal is usually one of the better-represented clubs at the World Cup. There are some legit beefs to be had with Wenger but wrecking players' international careers isn't one of them.

[Abubakr]

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 04:04:20 +1000, Sven Mischkies
<hs...@der-ball-ist-rund.net> wrote:

> Clément <lcmello...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>> Be as it may, I'm happy about the Özil signing. Not because it's a big

>> one
>> (I don't care about that), but because I like the player.
>
>
> That is why I don't like it. ;)

Looks like the handiwork of his father again, who's always looking for
more money.

[RED DEVIL]

A great player indeed and he plays off the front striker not in
midfield as most of the players you mentioned do.

[mehdi]

Exactly. It shows Wenger is still out of touch with reality and has no
tactical sense. Cazorla will be off at the end of the season for a loss.

--
http://soccer-europe.com
http://soccer-europe.com/RSS/News.xml
http://www.dailymotion.com/HDCalcio
https://twitter.com/calcioeurope

[mehdi]

On 02/09/2013 16:26, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:

> Wenger probably does, at least the first two, but these guys are
powder-puff for those positions. They need a Vieira/Song type, and
Flamini isn't that person. Why didn't they just try to get out-of-favor
Song back from Barca?

Song is garbage. He wasn't the solution then and he isn't now. Hell
Flamini is better and he's past it.

[Binder Dundat]

On 02/09/2013 12:48 PM, Cl�ment wrote:
> "Mark V." escreveu:
>> I have a feeling that there will be another announcement or two, though.
>
> Same feeling here, even though the few rumored names are not about
> defensive quality/depth either.
>

> Be as it may, I'm happy about the �zil signing. Not because it's a big

> one (I don't care about that), but because I like the player.

Call me old fashioned, but 50mil Euro seems damn big to me.


>
> Abra�o,
>
> Luiz Mello
>
>

[Sven Mischkies]

Mark V. <nevr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, September 2, 2013 11:04:20 AM UTC-7, Sven Mischkies wrote:

> > Cl�ment <> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Be as it may, I'm happy about the �zil signing. Not because it's a big one

> >
> > > (I don't care about that), but because I like the player.
> >
>
> > That is why I don't like it. ;)
> >
>
> > Ciao,
> >
> > SM
>
> Why the concern for his national team standing? Arsenal is usually one of
> the better-represented clubs at the World Cup. There are some legit beefs
> to be had with Wenger but wrecking players' international careers isn't
> one of them.

Ben Arfa, Modric, Ramsey, Emerson. The list is much longer than that and
technically gifted foreigners are ridiculously overrepresented in it.

Plus: What new can he learn playing Pinballfootball?

[Mark V.]

On Monday, September 2, 2013 4:49:30 PM UTC-7, Sven Mischkies wrote:

> Mark V. <xxx> wrote:


> > Why the concern for his national team standing? Arsenal is usually one of
>
> > the better-represented clubs at the World Cup. There are some legit beefs
>
> > to be had with Wenger but wrecking players' international careers isn't
>
> > one of them.

> Ben Arfa, Modric, Ramsey, Emerson. The list is much longer than that and

If you hadn't included Ramsey's name I'd have thought this to be a piss-take. You DO realize that none of Ben Arfa, Modric, or Emerson ever played for Arsenal!!! Don't you?

[Google Beta User]

Like Man U with RVP, sometimes when a certain class of player is available, just get them.

The question is whether Ozil is or Suarez who they wanted is.

Btw, Flamini added something for Arsenal when he came on vs Spurs.

[Abubakr]

I think he means the EPL...

[Mark V.]

On Monday, September 2, 2013 5:17:20 PM UTC-7, Abubakr wrote:

I think so too. Then he didn't really address what I'd written. I don't know
about Emerson. But Ben Arfa might have a tough time vying for a spot on
a France roster regardless. And has Modric's international career been harmed?
Swore he looked good for Croatia in the last Euros.

[Google Beta User]

EPL attacks:

Cazorla, Ozil, Walcot; Giroud

Welbeck, Young, Nani; RVP

Lamela, Chadli, Townsend; Soldado

Willian, Hazard, Oscar; Eto'o

Aspas, Coutinho, Suarez; Sturridge

Silva, Navas, Aguero; Dzeko

[Sven Mischkies]

I made a mistake: Eduardo, not Emerson.

They all had their legs broken in their first season in the EPL (OK,
Ramsey probably had some games before that).

[alka...@hotmail.com]

And these few handpicked examples indicate that Ozil will likely endure a season ending injury this season at Arsenal?

[MH]

On 13-09-02 6:49 PM, Google Beta User wrote:
> EPL attacks:
>
> Cazorla, Ozil, Walcot; Giroud
>

with Podolski, Oxlade, etc. in reserve. Pretty good, really.

> Welbeck, Young, Nani; RVP

I think Rooney will be in there, you know. And probably not too often
for Nani. Plus they also have Hernandez, Valencia, Kagawa etc.

>
> Lamela, Chadli, Townsend; Soldado

Lamela, Chadli, and Townsend unlikely all to play in the same team.
Plus Lennon is probably still better than Townsend. Dembele will start
regularly.

>
> Willian, Hazard, Oscar; Eto'o

I don't know why you would assume Willian or Eto'o would start regularly
based on no games so far. But who knows Mourinho's mind?
He seems to like De Bruyne.

Too many attacking players sitting around on this team. Still (even
after Moses was loaned)



>
> Aspas, Coutinho, Suarez; Sturridge
>
That implies a 4-2-3-1 and no Henderson. That is not what Rodgers has
been doing so far. It was a 4-5-1 leaning towards 4-3-3 on Sunday.

Aspas worked hard, but he made a lot of mistakes.

> Silva, Navas, Aguero; Dzeko
>
Not sure where Jovetic will fit in when fit. Possibly ahead of Dzeko.
IN fact Negredo might be ahead of Dzeko as well. All of Nasri, Silva,
and Navas are wide players, mostly. Probably only two will play at a
time.

>
>

[Sven Mischkies]

<alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> And these few handpicked examples indicate that Ozil will likely endure a
season ending injury this season at Arsenal?

I quote myself:

"The list is much longer than that and

technically gifted foreigners are ridiculously overrepresented in it."

Where "the list" just refers to those who had their leg broken, not
necessarily in the first year. IIRC the average is above 1 broken leg
per year, with a high chance that it's a technically gifted player.

So, no, it doesn't. But the chances that it happens during his contract
is about 1/5 or better.

Of course there is also the other part that nobody referred to - what
can he learn in the pinball league? Will he really improve as a player?

[Mark V.]

On Monday, September 2, 2013 6:27:43 PM UTC-7, MH wrote:
> On 13-09-02 6:49 PM, Google Beta User wrote:
>
> > EPL attacks:
>
> >
>
> > Cazorla, Ozil, Walcot; Giroud
>
> >
>
> with Podolski, Oxlade, etc. in reserve. Pretty good, really.

And Rosicky, who looks fantastic at times in the first
halves of games he starts.

The problem is the depth chart at CF. If Giroud goes down,
you've got Yaya Sanogo and Bendtner. (Walcott is an option, too,
and Podolski is out for 2 1/2 months.)

[Clément]

"Binder Dundat" escreveu:

It is huge. What I said is that I don't care about the fact of it being a
big buy. I care about it because they acquired a great player.

> Abra�o,
>
> Luiz Mello

[alka...@hotmail.com]

On Monday, September 2, 2013 9:32:15 PM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > And these few handpicked examples indicate that Ozil will likely endure a
>
> season ending injury this season at Arsenal?
>
>
>
>
>
> I quote myself:
>
> "The list is much longer than that and
>
> technically gifted foreigners are ridiculously overrepresented in it."
>
>
>
> Where "the list" just refers to those who had their leg broken, not
>
> necessarily in the first year. IIRC the average is above 1 broken leg
>
> per year, with a high chance that it's a technically gifted player.
>
>
>
> So, no, it doesn't. But the chances that it happens during his contract
>
> is about 1/5 or better.

How did you come up with that number? Let's say 18 players on average per EPL team see regular action...that's 18 x 20 teams = 360 players. Taking your assertion that "IIRC the average is above 1 broken leg per year" and assuming 1.5 broken legs per season in the league, that gives a probability of 1.5/360 x 100 = 0.4% of any one player breaking a leg in a season. Over 5 years that comes to 2%. Even if you play around with the benchmarks above, the number barely fluctuates by one percentage point. How did you come up with 20%?

>
> Of course there is also the other part that nobody referred to - what
>
> can he learn in the pinball league? Will he really improve as a player?

C'mon, now your arguments are becoming really bizarre. Have no technically gifted players developed or improved in the EPL? Are you being serious?

[MH]

Are you claiming that no technically gifted (foreign) player has ever
improved playing the EPL?

Because I can think of lots that have. (Of course, in many cases they
would also have improved playing in another strong league for a strong
team, though there is also always the danger they would have mouldered
on the bench at Milan, Barca, or Real). But I think the onus is on you
to prove that playing in the EPL actually hindered their development as
opposed to playing elsewhere.

1. Torres. Became a better player at Liverpool
2. Henry.
3. Fabregas
4. Van Persie
5. C. Ronaldo
6. Chicharito Hernandez
7. Overmars
8. Anelka
9. Bergkamp
10. Cantona

I made that list off the top of my head, and just realized over half of
them were at Arsenal.....
>
>
> Ciao,
> SM
>

[RED DEVIL]

Both were good signings, the fact that benny thinks otherwise confirms
their quality.

[Sven Mischkies]

<alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, September 2, 2013 9:32:15 PM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> > <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > And these few handpicked examples indicate that Ozil will likely endure a
> >
> > season ending injury this season at Arsenal?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I quote myself:
> >
> > "The list is much longer than that and
> >
> > technically gifted foreigners are ridiculously overrepresented in it."
> >
> >
> >
> > Where "the list" just refers to those who had their leg broken, not
> >
> > necessarily in the first year. IIRC the average is above 1 broken leg
> >
> > per year, with a high chance that it's a technically gifted player.
> >
> >
> >
> > So, no, it doesn't. But the chances that it happens during his contract
> >
> > is about 1/5 or better.
>
> How did you come up with that number? Let's say 18 players on average per
> EPL team see regular action...that's 18 x 20 teams = 360 players. Taking
> your assertion that "IIRC the average is above 1 broken leg per year" and
> assuming 1.5 broken legs per season in the league, that gives a
> probability of 1.5/360 x 100 = 0.4% of any one player breaking a leg in a
> season. Over 5 years that comes to 2%. Even if you play around with the
> benchmarks above, the number barely fluctuates by one percentage point.
> How did you come up with 20%?

I am talking about technically gifted players. Lighter frame, good
dribbler, creative, plays in a more or less free role. There are maybe
20 in the league? If there's a broken leg a season, and 4/5th of the
victims are this type, then you get to 20%.

> > Of course there is also the other part that nobody referred to - what
> >
> > can he learn in the pinball league? Will he really improve as a player?
>
> C'mon, now your arguments are becoming really bizarre. Have no technically
gifted players developed or improved in the EPL? Are you being serious?

What can they improve in the pinball league? Technically? Don't be
silly. Tactically? You must be joking. :) The only thing they can
improve on in this league is their physicality, and I don't think Oezil
needs that. He would have been better off in Spain, Italy, Germany or
even France.

[Sven Mischkies]

MH <MHno...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:

> On 13-09-02 7:32 PM, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> > <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> And these few handpicked examples indicate that Ozil will likely endure a
> > season ending injury this season at Arsenal?
> >
> >
> > I quote myself:
> > "The list is much longer than that and
> > technically gifted foreigners are ridiculously overrepresented in it."
> >
> > Where "the list" just refers to those who had their leg broken, not
> > necessarily in the first year. IIRC the average is above 1 broken leg
> > per year, with a high chance that it's a technically gifted player.
> >
> > So, no, it doesn't. But the chances that it happens during his contract
> > is about 1/5 or better.
> >
> > Of course there is also the other part that nobody referred to - what
> > can he learn in the pinball league? Will he really improve as a player?
>
> Are you claiming that no technically gifted (foreign) player has ever
> improved playing the EPL?

No, but few have. Other leagues do better in that regard.

When I threw out 'technically gifted' I didn't just mean any player who
can stop the ball, pass or volley, I meant players like ben Arfa, Silva,
Mata, Modric - mostly slight, tricky, good dribblers, good passers,
usually behind the striker, the most creative players in the league. A
Fabregas barely fits in that category as he is more physical than most
in it.

> Because I can think of lots that have. (Of course, in many cases they
> would also have improved playing in another strong league for a strong
> team, though there is also always the danger they would have mouldered
> on the bench at Milan, Barca, or Real). But I think the onus is on you
> to prove that playing in the EPL actually hindered their development as
> opposed to playing elsewhere.

The thing that is more developed in the EPL than in any other league is
the physicality. Technically Spain leads, tactically Italy. Germany is a
bit of a mix, France as well.

Sure, a few players relish this environment and become more physical
themselves (Fabregas the main example, I guess), but for most technical
and tactical improvement falls behind to what they'd do in the other
leagues. The league is all about pace, a quick touch and a decisive
finish. I just don't think it's a good choice for development for a
creative player.

Neither for defenders or DMs, btw, because they get used too much to
lenient referees (Scharner and Mancienne at HSV being my examples -
Scharner got sent off twice before playing 90 minutes, and Mancienne
should have been sent off in his first 45 ;)).

Quick or powerful attackers (like most players you listed below), OTOH,
thrive - they can play to and improve on their strengths.

> 1. Torres. Became a better player at Liverpool

Yes, and after 3 years he was done.


> 2. Henry.


Ok. But that's been a while.


> 3. Fabregas


Yes, because he was bought very young. And he is/became quite a robust
player himself.

> 4. Van Persie
> 5. C. Ronaldo
> 6. Chicharito Hernandez
> 7. Overmars
> 8. Anelka
> 9. Bergkamp
> 10. Cantona

Apart from Overmars (quick winger) these are physically strong types.

Modric would have been a better example, but then his break was only a
simple one. ;)

[Mark V.]

On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 10:22:50 AM UTC-7, Sven Mischkies wrote:

> <alka...@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Monday, September 2, 2013 9:32:15 PM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
>
> > C'mon, now your arguments are becoming really bizarre. Have no technically
>
> gifted players developed or improved in the EPL? Are you being serious?
>
>
> What can they improve in the pinball league? Technically? Don't be
>
> silly. Tactically? You must be joking.

For the hours he'll put in at the Arsenal training
grounds? Not so sure he can't improve either. Even
if not, there's not much upside potential for improvement
at his age.

Playing in a more physical, faster league will only help
round his international game.

[MH]

Ok. let's make a list of the players of that ilk (though there is no
inherent reason why they should be more susceptible to broken legs than
say, smaller full backs with a penchant for attacking). Then we watch
them over the next 3-5 years and see how many really suffer broken limbs.

My suggestions (please feel free to approve/disqualify/add players) (I
have not included any British players deliberately)

Shinji Kagawa
Eden Hazard
Juan Mata
Oscar
Willian
Andre Sch�rle (too big ?)
Victor Moses
Philippe Coutinho
Mesut �zil
Santiago Cazorla
Tomas Rosicky
David Silva
Samir Nasri
Jesus Navas
Steven Pienaar
Lewis Holtby
Christian Eriksen
Pablo Hernandez (Swansea)
Jonathan De Guzman (Swansea)
Stephane Sessegnon (WBA)
Yohan Cabaye ?? (Newcastle)
Hatem Ben Arfa (actually on the big side for my list at 180)
Yoann Gouffran (newcastle)
Sylvain Marveaux (newcastle)
Emanuele Giaccherini (sunderland)
Charles N'Zogbia (Aston Villa)

[alka...@hotmail.com]

On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:22:50 PM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> I am talking about technically gifted players. Lighter frame, good
>
> dribbler, creative, plays in a more or less free role. There are maybe
>
> 20 in the league? If there's a broken leg a season, and 4/5th of the
>
> victims are this type, then you get to 20%.

OK, even limiting it to technically gifted players, do you have any real statistics to share on this? Sorry, I just can't take "1 out of 20 break a leg in the EPL each season" at face value.

>
>
>
> > > Of course there is also the other part that nobody referred to - what
>
> > >
>
> > > can he learn in the pinball league? Will he really improve as a player?
>
> >
>
> > C'mon, now your arguments are becoming really bizarre. Have no technically
>
> gifted players developed or improved in the EPL? Are you being serious?
>
>
>
>
>
> What can they improve in the pinball league? Technically? Don't be
>
> silly.

*I* shouldn't be silly? Many technically gifted players younger than Ozil have come and thrived in the EPL. How can you make such an ludicrous claim with a straight face?

[Abubakr]

That's why so many world cup winners were from the Premier league. No
wait...

[Abubakr]

On Wed, 04 Sep 2013 03:22:50 +1000, Sven Mischkies
<hs...@der-ball-ist-rund.net> wrote:


>> 3. Fabregas
>
>
> Yes, because he was bought very young. And he is/became quite a robust
> player himself.

I think technically he lags behind his Masia cohort a little. He's not
quite at the same level as Iniesta and Xavi.

Especially when he first came back to Barcelona, he'd give the ball away
too much. How do you expect to displace Xavi like that?

[Sven Mischkies]

TBH I was thinking of adding a line that things may be improving with
now Chelski and Man City using players like that prominently - it's
bound to have an effect on the game in the league that the numbers of
these players are rising.

On top of that it's been a while since I looked up broken legs in the
EPL.


So let's check again:

Checking again there were a number of broken legs in the past season:
Mark Wilson (Stoke) in October
Ben Watson (Wigan) in November
Steve Clarke (WBA) in January
Ronnie Stam (Wigan, dunno, it was suspected, but maybe the suspicion was
wrong) in May
Tomas Kalas (Chelski) dunno when, probably in a reserves game

That's quite a bit more than I expected... But also completely different
types of player, so I guess I am wrong :) and maybe Oezil gets lucky and
it hits Mertesacker. :P

[Abubakr]

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 15:41:25 +1000, Clément <lcmello...@terra.com.br>
wrote:

> "Binder Dundat" escreveu:
>> On 02/09/2013 12:48 PM, Clément wrote:
>>> Be as it may, I'm happy about the Özil signing. Not because it's a big

>>> one (I don't care about that), but because I like the player.
>>
>> Call me old fashioned, but 50mil Euro seems damn big to me.
>
> It is huge. What I said is that I don't care about the fact of it being
> a big buy. I care about it because they acquired a great player.

All to no avail, apparently:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1175302_600984499960469_2004974602_n.jpg

[Chagney Hunt]

On 9/2/2013 2:11 PM, Mark V. wrote:
> On Monday, September 2, 2013 11:04:20 AM UTC-7, Sven Mischkies wrote:
>> Cl�ment <> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Be as it may, I'm happy about the �zil signing. Not because it's a big one

>>
>>> (I don't care about that), but because I like the player.
>>
>

>> That is why I don't like it. ;)
>>
>
>> Ciao,
>>
>> SM
>

> Why the concern for his national team standing? Arsenal is usually one of the better-represented clubs at the World Cup. There are some legit beefs to be had with Wenger but wrecking players' international careers isn't one of them.
>

Haters will hate? :)

I found the vitriol against Wenger here rather subversive. His sin seems
to be his fiscally responsibleness (as if the decision to spend was
always up to him?) and being rather good at his job.

Perhaps undue accolades from the media drove some of the resentment, but
we also have Mourinho who whored himself to the media and who displayed
on many occasions the worst narcissistic, prickly personality and yet he
is rather admired?

WTF,fellas? Where did I go wrong?

[MH]

The manager ?

[alka...@hotmail.com]

That made me LOL!

[MH]

Actually, a reasonable number have been playing in the premier league
(or at least in the system of an EPL club) for quite a lot of time
before they won the WC. Numbers are higher for recent Euros.

2010. Torres, Alonso, Fabregas, Arbeloa, Pique
2006. None, but good Italians tend not to stray from home. If France
had won the PK, there would have been lots. Vieira, Henry, Boumsong,
Gallas, Silvestre, Wiltord, Chimbonda, Saha, Makelele, Barthez
2002. Juninho,
1998. Vieira, Petit, Leboeuf

[alka...@hotmail.com]

On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 5:56:54 PM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:

>
> Checking again there were a number of broken legs in the past season:
>
> Mark Wilson (Stoke) in October
>
> Ben Watson (Wigan) in November
>
> Steve Clarke (WBA) in January
>
> Ronnie Stam (Wigan, dunno, it was suspected, but maybe the suspicion was
>
> wrong) in May
>
> Tomas Kalas (Chelski) dunno when, probably in a reserves game
>
>

What's the source? What would be appropriate here would be to also see if:
a) These injuries were the result of a rash or overly-aggressive challenge
b) How these numbers compare to similar injuries in other top European leagues

[Abubakr]

On Wed, 04 Sep 2013 08:38:18 +1000, MH <MHno...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:

> On 13-09-03 2:58 PM, Abubakr wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 Sep 2013 03:49:29 +1000, Mark V. <nevr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 10:22:50 AM UTC-7, Sven Mischkies wrote:
>>>> <alka...@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > On Monday, September 2, 2013 9:32:15 PM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > C'mon, now your arguments are becoming really bizarre. Have no
>>>> technically
>>>>
>>>> gifted players developed or improved in the EPL? Are you being
>>>> serious?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What can they improve in the pinball league? Technically? Don't be
>>>>
>>>> silly. Tactically? You must be joking.
>>>
>>> For the hours he'll put in at the Arsenal training
>>> grounds? Not so sure he can't improve either. Even
>>> if not, there's not much upside potential for improvement
>>> at his age.
>>>
>>> Playing in a more physical, faster league will only help
>>> round his international game.
>>
>> That's why so many world cup winners were from the Premier league. No
>> wait...
>
> Actually, a reasonable number have been playing in the premier league
> (or at least in the system of an EPL club) for quite a lot of time
> before they won the WC. Numbers are higher for recent Euros.

In other words, not very many.

> 2010. Torres, Alonso, Fabregas, Arbeloa, Pique

Only Torres and Fabregas were EPL players at the time and both were bit
part players in the Cup. I don't think I ever so Pique play in the premier
league so I don't know how much roundedness for the international game he
actually acquired there.

> 2006. None, but good Italians tend not to stray from home. If France
> had won the PK, there would have been lots. Vieira, Henry, Boumsong,
> Gallas, Silvestre, Wiltord, Chimbonda, Saha, Makelele, Barthez
> 2002. Juninho,
> 1998. Vieira, Petit, Leboeuf

Vieira didn't play and Leboeuf was a back up.

Naturally, the financial might of the english league is such that some
world cup winners would be playing there but come, they are hopelessly
under-represented for the the most exciting, greatest, league in the world.


--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[Abubakr]

Don't bother with b).

[Google Beta User]

On Monday, September 2, 2013 9:27:43 PM UTC-4, MH wrote:

> > Welbeck, Young, Nani; RVP
>
>
>
> I think Rooney will be in there, you know. And probably not too often
>
> for Nani. Plus they also have Hernandez, Valencia, Kagawa etc.

Was talking starters.

> > Lamela, Chadli, Townsend; Soldado
>
>
>
> Lamela, Chadli, and Townsend unlikely all to play in the same team.
>
> Plus Lennon is probably still better than Townsend. Dembele will start
>
> regularly.

What do you think of him more advanced vs a deeper midfield role?

> > Willian, Hazard, Oscar; Eto'o
>
>
>
> I don't know why you would assume Willian or Eto'o would start regularly
>
> based on no games so far. But who knows Mourinho's mind?
>
> He seems to like De Bruyne.

Willian seems like a starter based on how they bought him, but what I'm curious about is if he's the type of player to track back. Mourinho like Benitez likes those type of players that "work hard".

> > Aspas, Coutinho, Suarez; Sturridge
>
> >
>
> That implies a 4-2-3-1 and no Henderson. That is not what Rodgers has
>
> been doing so far.

First the full team is not available, and second he didn't have his winger. Looks like Moses might be a starter with Aspas coming off the bench:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/03/brendan-rodgers-luis-suarez-liverpool

> > Silva, Navas, Aguero; Dzeko
>
> >
>
> Not sure where Jovetic will fit in when fit. Possibly ahead of Dzeko.

Huh?

> IN fact Negredo might be ahead of Dzeko as well.

I think Dzeko and Negredo will just rotate.

[Binder Dundat]

The Ozil signing is big, I wont deny that, he is a super skilled player,
but everyone has forgotten about Marko Arnautovic going to Stoke. The
next Ibra gets signed and nobody even mentions it??????



On 02/09/2013 11:15 AM, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Mesut Ozil for 50m euros.....ooooh big spender this Wenger fella!
>
> Problem is, isn't it the position they least needed reinforcements in? With Cazorla, Wilshire, Arteta, Ramsey, Podolski, Walnutt, and Oxtail-Chambermaid all capable of playing similar positions.
>
> Great player to be fair but seems like another desperate last minute signal of intent to their fans from Johnny-come-lately Wenger. A striker or a defensive player would have been a more suitable addition.
>

[MH]

On 13-09-03 5:34 PM, Google Beta User wrote:
> On Monday, September 2, 2013 9:27:43 PM UTC-4, MH wrote:
>
>>> Welbeck, Young, Nani; RVP
>>
>>
>>
>> I think Rooney will be in there, you know. And probably not too often
>>
>> for Nani. Plus they also have Hernandez, Valencia, Kagawa etc.
>
> Was talking starters.

Then forget about Nani and Young. I doubt they will start regularly.
Valencia and Rooney should be ahead of them, I would imagine.

>
>
>>> Lamela, Chadli, Townsend; Soldado
>>
>>
>>
>> Lamela, Chadli, and Townsend unlikely all to play in the same team.
>>
>> Plus Lennon is probably still better than Townsend. Dembele will start
>>
>> regularly.
>
> What do you think of him more advanced vs a deeper midfield role?

Dembele can play most places. Oodles of ability, but he seems to lack
motivation a lot of the time.

>
>
>>> Willian, Hazard, Oscar; Eto'o
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't know why you would assume Willian or Eto'o would start regularly
>>
>> based on no games so far. But who knows Mourinho's mind?
>>
>> He seems to like De Bruyne.
>
> Willian seems like a starter based on how they bought him, but what I'm curious about is if he's the type of player to track back. Mourinho like Benitez likes those type of players that "work hard".
>

Yup, he likes hard workers. But I think Mata and Oscar and Hazard are
all better players than Willian, and probably Sch�rle as well, so I
can't imagine Willian playing much once the novelty wears off.

>>> Aspas, Coutinho, Suarez; Sturridge
>>
>>>
>>
>> That implies a 4-2-3-1 and no Henderson. That is not what Rodgers has
>>
>> been doing so far.
>
> First the full team is not available, and second he didn't have his winger.

He will play three in midfield, I am pretty sure. Did it all of last
year (Gerrard and Lucas when available, then one of Shelvey, Allen or
Henderson). That means Suarez, Sturridge and one more. Coutinho must
still be ahead of Moses in the pecking order.

Looks like Moses might be a starter with Aspas coming off the bench:
> http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/03/brendan-rodgers-luis-suarez-liverpool
>
>
>>> Silva, Navas, Aguero; Dzeko
>>
>>>
>>
>> Not sure where Jovetic will fit in when fit. Possibly ahead of Dzeko.
>
> Huh?

Jovetic might be a better player. Dzeko seems to score more coming off
the bench.

[Sven Mischkies]

<alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 5:56:54 PM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
>
> >
> > Checking again there were a number of broken legs in the past season:
> >
> > Mark Wilson (Stoke) in October
> >
> > Ben Watson (Wigan) in November
> >
> > Steve Clarke (WBA) in January
> >
> > Ronnie Stam (Wigan, dunno, it was suspected, but maybe the suspicion was
> >
> > wrong) in May
> >
> > Tomas Kalas (Chelski) dunno when, probably in a reserves game
> >
> >
>
>
> What's the source?

Google. "premiership broken leg" Results were several press articles.

> What would be appropriate here would be to also see if:
> a) These injuries were the result of a rash or overly-aggressive challenge

Mark Wilson - 'collision' with Steven Fletcher.
Ben Watson - 'collision' with Raheem Sterling.
Ronnie Stam 'went down after a heavy tackle'
Steven Reid - dunno. He kept playing with it.
Tomas Kalas - that actually happend in training in July

I have seen neither of them.

> b) How these numbers compare to similar injuries in other top European leagues

"Bundesliga Beinbruch" gives as last result an incident in the second
league. From 2010.

Happy googling. ;)

[Sven Mischkies]

Steven Reid it was. :)

[Clément]

"Chagney Hunt" escreveu:

> I found the vitriol against Wenger here rather subversive. His sin seems
> to be his fiscally responsibleness (as if the decision to spend was always
> up to him?) and being rather good at his job.

I've always been (and still am) a strong supporter of Wenger's fiscal
responsibleness philosophy. Problem is, this is not what this is about
anymore - or at least it's not just about this anymore.

Surely when your team begin a season with barely a full available senior
squad, something is off? Especially when the club has the resources to add
depth and/or quality in areas of need. It's not about splashing senseless
money on big names, it's about sensibly adding pieces that will make the
squad capable of adequately participating in the multiple competitions it
will be involved and, heaven forbid, perhaps even try to win something.

Whatever the reason, this is something Wenger has failing at, and for this
he deserves criticism. And while I agree that much of this criticism is over
the top, he also brings it on himself by stating nonsense like how there
weren't many available players who could improve Arsenal's squad.

As for �zil, while his signing doesn't address any of Arsenal's weakest
spots, I don't think he's as redundant as some have argued. Plus, when you
have the opportunity and the means of adding a player of this level, you
simply do it.

Abra�o,

Luiz Mello

[alka...@hotmail.com]

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:36:32 AM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > a) These injuries were the result of a rash or overly-aggressive challenge
>
>
>
> Mark Wilson - 'collision' with Steven Fletcher.

Apparently Wilson was the one who went in for the tackle!

>
> Ben Watson - 'collision' with Raheem Sterling.

Both players went up for a ball....freak accident.

>
> Ronnie Stam 'went down after a heavy tackle'

Yes.

>
> Steven Reid - dunno. He kept playing with it.

Hard to find a source on how he got injured, but if he continued to play for an entire half then it couldn't have been that bad an injury.

>
> Tomas Kalas - that actually happend in training in July

No source on what exactly happened.

Overall I think it would be silly to argue that the EPL isn't one of the most physical leagues in Europe, and also that there's a positive correlation between physicality and injuries, but I think this whole hysteria that some Vinny Jones clone will maim Ozil with a chainsaw and Germany will never qualify for the World Cup again and Merkel will invade Poland as a result is a tad bit overblown ;-)

[Sven Mischkies]

<alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:36:32 AM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote: >
> <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > a) These injuries were the result of a rash or overly-aggressive
> > challenge
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark Wilson - 'collision' with Steven Fletcher.
>
> Apparently Wilson was the one who went in for the tackle!
>
> >
> > Ben Watson - 'collision' with Raheem Sterling.
>
> Both players went up for a ball....freak accident.
>
> >
> > Ronnie Stam 'went down after a heavy tackle'
>
> Yes.
>
> >
> > Steven Reid - dunno. He kept playing with it.
>
> Hard to find a source on how he got injured, but if he continued to play
> for an entire half then it couldn't have been that bad an injury.

It took only a month or 6 weeks or so to recover, so it must have been a
very fine break.

Saw a documentation once, about some doc running a triathlon. He
complained about leg pain, but went through with it. X-Ray afterwards
showed a fracture of either tibia or fibula.

> > Tomas Kalas - that actually happend in training in July
>
> No source on what exactly happened.
>
> Overall I think it would be silly to argue that the EPL isn't one of the
> most physical leagues in Europe, and also that there's a positive
> correlation between physicality and injuries, but I think this whole
> hysteria that some Vinny Jones clone will maim Ozil with a chainsaw and
> Germany will never qualify for the World Cup again and Merkel will invade
> Poland as a result is a tad bit overblown ;-)

Can we find out who this Vinny Jones clone is and ask him to tackle
Merkel? :)

[Mark V.]

On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:58:28 PM UTC-7, Abubakr wrote:

> On Wed, 04 Sep 2013 03:49:29 +1000, Mark V. <nevr...@xxxx.com> wrote:

> That's why so many world cup winners were from the Premier league. No
>
> wait...

It's exactly why there were more players from the EPL in the 2010 than from any other league. ;)

[Abubakr]

Players have to eat. The EPL doesn't make them WC winners, that's for
sure. Look at England: how far has all this extra physicality and apparent
'speed of play' got them in past 50 years?

[RED DEVIL]

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 04:14:44 +1000, Abubakr <delta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Why do you hate England so much?

[Mark V.]

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 11:14:44 AM UTC-7, Abubakr wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 03:52:43 +1000, Mark V. <nevrednax@xxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 1:58:28 PM UTC-7, Abubakr wrote:
>
> >> On Wed, 04 Sep 2013 03:49:29 +1000, Mark V. <nevr...@xxxx.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> That's why so many world cup winners were from the Premier league. No
>
> >>
>
> >> wait...
>
> >
>
> > It's exactly why there were more players from the EPL in the 2010 than
>
> > from any other league. ;)
>
>
>
> Players have to eat. The EPL doesn't make them WC winners, that's for
>
> sure. Look at England: how far has all this extra physicality and apparent
>
> 'speed of play' got them in past 50 years?

I'm not from England nor a fan of the England team. Apparently their development
program is behind those of the big nations on the continent. I don't give a shit. It says
nothing about the league. Top-flight leagues take finished products. They don't groom
them.

For starters, I don't even like using the World Cup as proof of much of
anything because of the small sample size, the randomness of draws, the fact that
it's hard to assess anything dynamic when and possibilities of one-offs in
knock-out games. As MH averred, France was a PK away from torpedoing your
entire specious contention to smithereens. Why not use a more robust base of data and look at CL winners? The speed and physicality doesn't seem to harm teams there.

And anyway,I said that Ozil would be able round his game by playing in the EPL. I like
the way you ignored that and sort of treated this as if he were some young
prospect being groomed in the EPL. He's going to encounter a variety of styles
at the international level, and it's not as if it's going to take the edge off his technique,
especially since he's in the Arsenal system.

[Abubakr]

My what? Dude, you were the one claiming the speed in the EPL will make
Ozil 'a more rounded international player'.

France almost gave you four or five extra bench players to add the measly
number of world cup winners the EPL has harboured. Get it right.

> Why not use a more robust base of data and look at CL winners? The speed
> and physicality doesn't seem to harm teams there.

Because the CL is not international football. And besides, the EPL's
record for wins in the CL is not worth the hype either. Just to be clear.

> And anyway,I said that Ozil would be able round his game by playing in
> the EPL.

No you didn't.

> I like
> the way you ignored that and sort of treated this as if he were some
> young
> prospect being groomed in the EPL. He's going to encounter a variety of
> styles
> at the international level, and it's not as if it's going to take the
> edge off his technique,
> especially since he's in the Arsenal system.

Read your own bloody posts first before slinging mud round, will ya?

[Mark V.]

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:05:34 PM UTC-7, Abubakr wrote:

> > On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:16:09 +1000, Mark V. <nxxxx> wrote:

>
> > And anyway,I said that Ozil would be able round his game by playing in
>
> > the EPL.

> No you didn't.

"Playing in a more physical, faster league will only help
round his international game."

This is what I said. Anybody else want to judge on whether I
did or didn't say it? I think we're done here!

[Abubakr]

On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 11:53:34 +1000, Mark V. <nevr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:05:34 PM UTC-7, Abubakr wrote:
>> > On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:16:09 +1000, Mark V. <nxxxx> wrote:
>
>>
>> > And anyway,I said that Ozil would be able round his game by playing in
>>
>> > the EPL.
>
>> No you didn't.
>
> "Playing in a more physical, faster league will only help
> round his international game."


> This is what I said.

Exactly. And that is what I responded to. Now how is the fucking CL
relevant to what you said above?

(Oh yes...some English teams have won it, so let's use that instead of
performances at the WC)

[Mark V.]

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:31:16 PM UTC-7, Abubakr wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 11:53:34 +1000, Mark V. <xxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:05:34 PM UTC-7, Abubakr wrote:
>
> >> > On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 09:16:09 +1000, Mark V. <nxxxx> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >> > And anyway,I said that Ozil would be able round his game by playing in
>
> >>
>
> >> > the EPL.
>
> >
>
> >> No you didn't.
>
> >
>
> > "Playing in a more physical, faster league will only help
>
> > round his international game."
>
>
>
>
>
> > This is what I said.
>
>
>
> Exactly. And that is what I responded to. Now how is the fucking CL
>
> relevant to what you said above?
>
>
>
> (Oh yes...some English teams have won it, so let's use that instead of
>
> performances at the WC)

Give it up. You're usually reasonable and I really don't have anything against you.
I'll see you on another thread when you've calmed down a bit.

[Abubakr]