(R) Brasileirão 2009 - Round 36
Jesus Petry
I'll say it again: BEST. SEASON. EVER.
Sat, Nov 21:
Corinthians 2-3 Náutico
[Ronaldo 50', Elias 71' - Bruno Mineiro 39', Carlinhos Bala
85', Ailton 90+3' (PK)]
Unexpected and dramatic comeback by a ten-man Náutico, who
would be relegated now if they didn't score the last minute
penalty. They have minimal chances of escaping anyway, but
at least this year they may take pride of not falling as
easily as their rivals Sport Recife.
No points.
Atlético-PR 1-1 Cruzeiro
[Marcinho 74' - Leonardo Silva 90+1']
Atlético were very close to a win that would leave them
practically free from relegation, but a late header by
defender Leonardo Silva gave Cruzeiro a lifeline in the
fight for a Libertadores spot.
Double for me.
Sun, Nov 22:
Santos 4-0 Coritiba
[Madson 24' (FK), Kléber Pereira 27', Neymar 65', 89']
Santos are free from relegation trouble and Coritiba may
face a last round thriller at home against Fluminense after
they visit Cruzeiro. Certainly a nasty schedule that may
make them the last relegated team in their centennial year.
Points for Mark and me.
Botafogo 3-2 São Paulo
[Jóbson 15', 90', Renato 59' - Washington 45+6', Jorge
Wagner 57']
Amazing game and further proof of how balanced the
Brazilian League is. Jóbson scored two beautiful goals and
set up the other to keep leaders São Paulo within reach
from five teams with two rounds to go and save Botafogo
from dropping to the relegation zone. Botafogo have a
direct matchup against Atlético-PR away next round and then
host Palmeiras in what should be another thriller. São
Paulo might still clinch the title next round if they beat
Goiás away, Flamengo lose to Corinthians and Inter and
Palmeiras fail to win. Their real trump, though, is their
last round home game against the already relegated Sport
Recife (and although this match might be played in a
neutral venue that shouldn't make too much of a
difference).
No points (except for Daniele in Brasileirão Maluco).
Sport Recife 0-3 Fluminense
[Zé Antônio 67' (OG), Fred 74', Conca 87']
Flu go on with their amazing run and will face two mind
blowing weeks from now on: midweek they'll be in Quito for
the Copa Sudamericana finals' first leg, then they host
Vitória in weekend for the league, three days later host
LDU in the 2nd leg of the Sudam finals and in the other
Sunday visit Coritiba in what should be the game that
decides their fate with respect to relegation.
Points for all.
Santo André 4-2 Avaí
[Marcelinho Carioca 23' (PK), Wanderley 55', Camilo 67',
90+4' - Muriqui 58', Marquinhos 76']
Avaí's dream of a Libertadores spot is over, but they can
end the season with great pride because they played way
over everyone's expectations. Santo André host Náutico next
round in a game that should end with both relegated,
although whoever wins might keep a dim hope for the last
round, when Santo André visit Internacional and Náutico
host Avaí.
Point for Mark.
Vitória 2-1 Barueri
[Leandro Domingues 47', Roger 56' - Val Baiano 90+2']
Vitória are now safe from relegation and one win away from
a Sudamericana spot. The same applies to Barueri.
Double for me.
Flamengo 0-0 Goiás
Once again Flamengo disappoint at the Maracanã against
Goiás, but thanks to help from Botafogo (whose winning goal
at Engenhão was wildly celebrated by Flamengo fans who were
waiting for this game to start) are now only one point
behind the leaders. They'll now face Corinthians in
Campinas (to avoid a clash with the Palmeiras game in a
nearby stadium) and then host Grêmio, who besides having
the second worst away record of the season, have nothing
left to play for.
No points.
Atlético-MG 0-1 Internacional
[Giuliano 16']
A fast taken free kick by Kléber set Alecsandro for a tight
angled shot which hit a post and Giuliano beat a defender
to tap in the rebound. Inter held on for the rest of the
game to constant pressure but still didn't offer too many
chances to Galo and even wasted a few counterattacks. Now
Atlético visit Palmeiras in another "six-pointer" and must
win to stay in the fight for a Libertadores spot. Their
final match is at home against Corinthians, who are in
vacation mode, so a win against Palmeiras should save their
season (since Palmeiras visit a desperate Botafogo in their
last round clash). Internacional can clinch a Libertadores
spot with one win because of their excellent number of wins
and GD. The last two opponents are Sport Recife (away) and
Santo André (home), and although the title is now a
realistic possibility, it can only happen if both São Paulo
and Flamengo suffer upsets.
Single for MH, double for Mark.
Predictions score:
JP 2s + 2d = 6
Mark 3s + 1d = 5
MH 2s + 0d = 2
Brasileirão Maluco, Round 35:
Reg Bets Total
Daniele 7 +4 11
Bordon 5 0 5
Milivella 4 0 4
Luiz 2 0 2
Sid 2 -4 -2
Brasileirão Maluco, overall:
Reg Bets Total
Luiz 164 +15 179
Milivella 146 +12 158
Sid 145 +10 155
Daniele 139 -24 115
Bordon 126 -13 113
Standings:
Pts Pld W D L GF-GA Diff
1 São Paulo 62 36 17 11 8 51-38 +13 Libertadores
2 Flamengo 61 36 17 10 9 54-43 +11 Libertadores
3 Internacional 59 36 17 8 11 59-42 +17 Libertadores
4 Palmeiras 59 36 16 11 9 54-42 +12 Lib Playoff
5 Atlético-MG 56 36 16 8 12 54-50 +4 Sudamericana
6 Cruzeiro 56 36 16 8 12 52-51 +1 Sudamericana
7 Avaí 53 36 14 11 11 58-50 +8 SUDAMERICANA
8 Grêmio 52 36 14 10 12 62-42 +20 SUDAMERICANA
9 Goiás 51 36 14 9 13 58-61 -3 SUDAMERICANA
10 Corinthians 49 36 13 10 13 47-52 -5 LIBERTADORES
11 Barueri 48 36 12 12 12 57-48 +9 Sudamericana
12 Santos 48 36 12 12 12 55-54 +1 Sudamericana
13 Vitória 47 36 13 8 15 49-51 -2 Sudamericana
14 Coritiba 44 36 12 8 16 46-55 -9
15 Atlético-PR 44 36 12 8 16 40-49 -9
16 Botafogo 44 36 10 14 12 50-55 -5
17 Fluminense 42 36 10 12 14 44-55 -11 Relegation
18 Santo André 38 36 10 8 18 40-54 -14 Relegation
19 Náutico 38 36 10 8 18 45-65 -20 Relegation
20 Sport Recife 31 36 7 10 19 47-65 -18 RELEGATED
Top scorers:
Adriano (Flamengo) 19
Diego Tardelli (Atlético-MG) 18
Val Baiano (Barueri) 16
Home wins: 51.1%
Away wins: 21.7%
Draws: 27.2%
Goals per game: 2.84
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Mark
> *************************************************************
>
> Standings:
> Pts Pld W D L GF-GA Diff
> 1 São Paulo 62 36 17 11 8 51-38 +13 Libertadores
> 2 Flamengo 61 36 17 10 9 54-43 +11 Libertadores
> 3 Internacional 59 36 17 8 11 59-42 +17 Libertadores
> 4 Palmeiras 59 36 16 11 9 54-42 +12 Lib Playoff
> 5 Atlético-MG 56 36 16 8 12 54-50 +4 Sudamericana
> 6 Cruzeiro 56 36 16 8 12 52-51 +1 Sudamericana
> 7 Avaí 53 36 14 11 11 58-50 +8 SUDAMERICANA
> 8 Grêmio 52 36 14 10 12 62-42 +20 SUDAMERICANA
> 9 Goiás 51 36 14 9 13 58-61 -3 SUDAMERICANA
> 10 Corinthians 49 36 13 10 13 47-52 -5 LIBERTADORES
> 11 Barueri 48 36 12 12 12 57-48 +9 Sudamericana
> 12 Santos 48 36 12 12 12 55-54 +1 Sudamericana
> 13 Vitória 47 36 13 8 15 49-51 -2 Sudamericana
> 14 Coritiba 44 36 12 8 16 46-55 -9
> 15 Atlético-PR 44 36 12 8 16 40-49 -9
> 16 Botafogo 44 36 10 14 12 50-55 -5
> 17 Fluminense 42 36 10 12 14 44-55 -11 Relegation
> 18 Santo André 38 36 10 8 18 40-54 -14 Relegation
> 19 Náutico 38 36 10 8 18 45-65 -20 Relegation
> 20 Sport Recife 31 36 7 10 19 47-65 -18 RELEGATED
I can't believe Cruzeiro are still in with a chance of winning the
championship! I predicted at the beginning of the season that Cruzeiro
would win it, but I'd given up hope of my prediction being correct
weeks ago! And yet, with 2 games left, they're still not completely
out of it!
Clément
> *************************************************************
> I'll say it again: BEST. SEASON. EVER.
Crazy indeed.
For those who like strong emotions, there's no shortage of it at both
ends of the table.
(...)
> Santos 4-0 Coritiba
> [Madson 24' (FK), Kléber Pereira 27', Neymar 65', 89']
> Santos are free from relegation trouble and Coritiba may
> face a last round thriller at home against Fluminense after
> they visit Cruzeiro. Certainly a nasty schedule that may
> make them the last relegated team in their centennial year.
Only a couple of days ago, Botafogo and Fluminense only could
reasonably hope to beat each other to avoid relegation, but now both
Paraná clubs are well in the mix. Incredible. At least Coritiba, I
thought were pretty safe after beating Galo, but no.
(...)
> Botafogo 3-2 São Paulo
> [Jóbson 15', 90', Renato 59' - Washington 45+6', Jorge
> Wagner 57']
> Amazing game and further proof of how balanced the
> Brazilian League is. Jóbson scored two beautiful goals and
> set up the other to keep leaders São Paulo within reach
> from five teams with two rounds to go and save Botafogo
> from dropping to the relegation zone.
I heard it was kind of a card fest too. I wonder how many players each
team will miss next round?
> Botafogo have a
> direct matchup against Atlético-PR away next round and then
> host Palmeiras in what should be another thriller.
I hope Botafogo doesn't pull a Botafogo and confirm their escape by
beating Atlético-PR!
> São
> Paulo might still clinch the title next round if they beat
> Goiás away,
Could happen, not sure how SP's lineup will look like.
There's a stronger possibility of São Paulo clinching a Libertadores
spot next round.
> Flamengo lose to Corinthians
Not going to happen. Corinthians is sure to drop this one.
> and Inter and
> Palmeiras fail to win. Their real trump, though, is their
> last round home game against the already relegated Sport
> Recife (and although this match might be played in a
> neutral venue that shouldn't make too much of a
> difference).
Both leaders have winnable schedules. Although none of these games is
a given (which game is at this point? ;), all their opponents have no
motivation other than playing spoilers.
(...)
> Sport Recife 0-3 Fluminense
> [Zé Antônio 67' (OG), Fred 74', Conca 87']
> Flu go on with their amazing run and will face two mind
> blowing weeks from now on: midweek they'll be in Quito for
> the Copa Sudamericana finals' first leg, then they host
> Vitória in weekend for the league, three days later host
> LDU in the 2nd leg of the Sudam finals and in the other
> Sunday visit Coritiba in what should be the game that
> decides their fate with respect to relegation.
And there's the ironic twist of facing the same LDU that beat them at
the 2008 Libertadores' final. I predict 198.721 "Libertadores revenge"
references on TV during the next week and a half.
(...)
> Santo André 4-2 Avaí
> [Marcelinho Carioca 23' (PK), Wanderley 55', Camilo 67',
> 90+4' - Muriqui 58', Marquinhos 76']
> Avaí's dream of a Libertadores spot is over, but they can
> end the season with great pride because they played way
> over everyone's expectations.
The Bandwagon is disappointed!!
Not really. Great season for Avaí. (It didn't get any worse after
rivals Figueirense choked at home on Saturday and made sure they won't
be transferred back to this League in 2010).
> Santo André host Náutico next
> round in a game that should end with both relegated,
> although whoever wins might keep a dim hope for the last
> round, when Santo André visit Internacional and Náutico
> host Avaí.
In theory, one of these two could win out, hope that Atlético-PR and
Coritiba both lose out in order to overtake at least one of them on
GD. Could happen, but it's too convoluted. The truth is, if Botafogo
get a single point, both Santo André and Náutico will be relegated.
(...)
> Flamengo 0-0 Goiás
> Once again Flamengo disappoint at the Maracanã against
> Goiás, but thanks to help from Botafogo (whose winning goal
> at Engenhão was wildly celebrated by Flamengo fans who were
> waiting for this game to start) are now only one point
> behind the leaders. They'll now face Corinthians in
> Campinas (to avoid a clash with the Palmeiras game in a
> nearby stadium) and then host Grêmio,
I assume this home game against Grêmio will also be moved to a neutral
venue, as Botafogo play Palmeiras at the same time, not very far from
Maracanã.
(...)
> Atlético-MG 0-1 Internacional
(...)
> Now
> Atlético visit Palmeiras in another "six-pointer" and must
> win to stay in the fight for a Libertadores spot. Their
> final match is at home against Corinthians, who are in
> vacation mode, so a win against Palmeiras should save their
> season (since Palmeiras visit a desperate Botafogo in their
> last round clash).
If Atlético-MG beat both Palmeiras and Corinthians, Palmeiras' match
against Botafogo will be irrelevant to them, as Galo will have the
first tie-break advantage (wins). If Galo win out, the only way they
won't finish at top-4 is if Cruzeiro also win out and overtake them on
GD (right now it's 4-1 in Galo's favor).
> Internacional can clinch a Libertadores
> spot with one win because of their excellent number of wins
> and GD. The last two opponents are Sport Recife (away) and
> Santo André (home), and although the title is now a
> realistic possibility, it can only happen if both São Paulo
> and Flamengo suffer upsets.
This was the best news of the round! (I'm sure you agree).
Inter are back on the title race, and, althought they have to hope
both their opponents drop points (as you wrote), they do have the best
schedule in the history of late-season comebacks. Should be a thing of
beauty if it happens.
(...)
> Brasileirão Maluco, Round 35:
> Reg Bets Total
> Daniele 7 +4 11
> Bordon 5 0 5
> Milivella 4 0 4
> Luiz 2 0 2
> Sid 2 -4 -2
I caught a huge break here, in a lousy round for my teams (2 points is
the minimum I could have had, because of the Galo-Inter head to head).
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Lleo
> On Nov 23, 2:08 am, Jesus Petry wrote:
>
> > *************************************************************
> > I'll say it again: BEST. SEASON. EVER.
>
> Crazy indeed.
>
> For those who like strong emotions, there's no shortage of it at both
> ends of the table.
There is a not totally unlikely possibility of a four-way tie for 1st,
at 65 points, between São Paulo, Flamengo, Internacional and Palmeiras
after round 38. In that scenario, Inter would be champions on
tiebreaker.
At the bottom, I think Nautico and Santo André are doomed, but there's
still four teams for one spot in Serie B 2010.
Who said league formats are boring again? :-) A while ago I heard
Globoesporte wanted to bring back the playoffs (haven't followed that
closely though), I hope this season will be enough reason to shut them
up for a long while now.
> (...)
>
> > Santos 4-0 Coritiba
> > [Madson 24' (FK), Kléber Pereira 27', Neymar 65', 89']
> > Santos are free from relegation trouble and Coritiba may
> > face a last round thriller at home against Fluminense after
> > they visit Cruzeiro. Certainly a nasty schedule that may
> > make them the last relegated team in their centennial year.
>
> Only a couple of days ago, Botafogo and Fluminense only could
> reasonably hope to beat each other to avoid relegation, but now both
> Paraná clubs are well in the mix. Incredible. At least Coritiba, I
> thought were pretty safe after beating Galo, but no.
Rough schedule ahead... Coritiba will now be away to Cruzeiro and
finishes at home against Fluminense. The former is fighting for the
Libertadores, but has choked twice in a row at home (Fluminense and
Gremio), while the latter can be a final on its own.
> > Botafogo 3-2 São Paulo
> > [Jóbson 15', 90', Renato 59' - Washington 45+6', Jorge
> > Wagner 57']
> > Amazing game and further proof of how balanced the
> > Brazilian League is. Jóbson scored two beautiful goals and
> > set up the other to keep leaders São Paulo within reach
> > from five teams with two rounds to go and save Botafogo
> > from dropping to the relegation zone.
>
> I heard it was kind of a card fest too. I wonder how many players each
> team will miss next round?
One red card for São Paulo, three for Botafogo. After scoring the
winning goal Jobson took off his shirt in the celebration, got a
second yellow and off he goes... silly, but it's in the rules.
> > Botafogo have a
> > direct matchup against Atlético-PR away next round and then
> > host Palmeiras in what should be another thriller.
>
> I hope Botafogo doesn't pull a Botafogo and confirm their escape by
> beating Atlético-PR!
Well... if it was any other team, I'd say it's doable. With them, it's
just unpredictable. But Botafogo has pulled good results at the Arena
before.
> > São
> > Paulo might still clinch the title next round if they beat
> > Goiás away,
>
> Could happen, not sure how SP's lineup will look like.
>
> There's a stronger possibility of São Paulo clinching a Libertadores
> spot next round.
Indeed, can't see them missing the Libertadores. Do they even remember
what Copa do Brasil matches look like?
> > Flamengo lose to Corinthians
>
> Not going to happen. Corinthians is sure to drop this one.
I'm not optimist either... but Ronaldo may want to give a couple of
Christmas gifts to his beloved club.
> > and Inter and
> > Palmeiras fail to win. Their real trump, though, is their
> > last round home game against the already relegated Sport
> > Recife (and although this match might be played in a
> > neutral venue that shouldn't make too much of a
> > difference).
>
> Both leaders have winnable schedules. Although none of these games is
> a given (which game is at this point? ;), all their opponents have no
> motivation other than playing spoilers.
>
> (...)
>
> > Sport Recife 0-3 Fluminense
> > [Zé Antônio 67' (OG), Fred 74', Conca 87']
> > Flu go on with their amazing run and will face two mind
> > blowing weeks from now on: midweek they'll be in Quito for
> > the Copa Sudamericana finals' first leg, then they host
> > Vitória in weekend for the league, three days later host
> > LDU in the 2nd leg of the Sudam finals and in the other
> > Sunday visit Coritiba in what should be the game that
> > decides their fate with respect to relegation.
>
> And there's the ironic twist of facing the same LDU that beat them at
> the 2008 Libertadores' final. I predict 198.721 "Libertadores revenge"
> references on TV during the next week and a half.
Let's see if they can keep up the good run. Rio to Recife to Quito to
Rio... that's quite a tough traveling schedule, and they're getting
worn off already.
> (...)
>
> > Santo André 4-2 Avaí
> > [Marcelinho Carioca 23' (PK), Wanderley 55', Camilo 67',
> > 90+4' - Muriqui 58', Marquinhos 76']
> > Avaí's dream of a Libertadores spot is over, but they can
> > end the season with great pride because they played way
> > over everyone's expectations.
>
> The Bandwagon is disappointed!!
>
> Not really. Great season for Avaí. (It didn't get any worse after
> rivals Figueirense choked at home on Saturday and made sure they won't
> be transferred back to this League in 2010).
Must've been a bitter pill for Figueirense fans to swallow, to be kept
where they are by, all due respect, DUQUE DE CAXIAS. As for Avaí,
great run, I'd like to see them sustaining it next season.
> > Santo André host Náutico next
> > round in a game that should end with both relegated,
> > although whoever wins might keep a dim hope for the last
> > round, when Santo André visit Internacional and Náutico
> > host Avaí.
>
> In theory, one of these two could win out, hope that Atlético-PR and
> Coritiba both lose out in order to overtake at least one of them on
> GD. Could happen, but it's too convoluted. The truth is, if Botafogo
> get a single point, both Santo André and Náutico will be relegated.
>
And that's what Inter is hoping for, I'd think, as that would mean
they'd be facing two relegated opponents, instead of only one.
> (...)
>
> > Flamengo 0-0 Goiás
> > Once again Flamengo disappoint at the Maracanã against
> > Goiás, but thanks to help from Botafogo (whose winning goal
> > at Engenhão was wildly celebrated by Flamengo fans who were
> > waiting for this game to start) are now only one point
> > behind the leaders. They'll now face Corinthians in
> > Campinas (to avoid a clash with the Palmeiras game in a
> > nearby stadium) and then host Grêmio,
>
> I assume this home game against Grêmio will also be moved to a neutral
> venue, as Botafogo play Palmeiras at the same time, not very far from
> Maracanã.
They said the game was moved because the police asked. If that is so,
let's hear it from the cops here in Rio, and hope CBF will be
listening as well!
Plus, Ronaldo Angelim came off the pitch saying that Goiás was paid R$
300 k to toughen things up for Flamengo. I wonder whether the STJD
will "denounce" him for that.
To both I can only think "yeah, right"...
By the way, did you see the big mosaic they made? Who else but the
vultures, to gather 80,000 of them and spell "A MAIO TORCIDA DO MUNDU"
etc etc (transcribed ipsis litteris, typos not mine!) :-)
> (...)
>
> > Atlético-MG 0-1 Internacional
> (...)
> > Now
> > Atlético visit Palmeiras in another "six-pointer" and must
> > win to stay in the fight for a Libertadores spot. Their
> > final match is at home against Corinthians, who are in
> > vacation mode, so a win against Palmeiras should save their
> > season (since Palmeiras visit a desperate Botafogo in their
> > last round clash).
>
> If Atlético-MG beat both Palmeiras and Corinthians, Palmeiras' match
> against Botafogo will be irrelevant to them, as Galo will have the
> first tie-break advantage (wins). If Galo win out, the only way they
> won't finish at top-4 is if Cruzeiro also win out and overtake them on
> GD (right now it's 4-1 in Galo's favor).
Though I think it's unlikely, as Atlético has been blowing it lately,
I would love to see them overtaking Palmeiras.
> > Internacional can clinch a Libertadores
> > spot with one win because of their excellent number of wins
> > and GD. The last two opponents are Sport Recife (away) and
> > Santo André (home), and although the title is now a
> > realistic possibility, it can only happen if both São Paulo
> > and Flamengo suffer upsets.
>
> This was the best news of the round! (I'm sure you agree).
>
> Inter are back on the title race, and, althought they have to hope
> both their opponents drop points (as you wrote), they do have the best
> schedule in the history of late-season comebacks. Should be a thing of
> beauty if it happens.
Go Inter!
Corinthians and Goiás don't have anything to play for, but can be huge
banana peels, as the latter has just shown. Inter doesn't have these
on the way (not that big anyway), with their edge on the tiebreakers
and avoiding slip-ups...
Of course, it is not up to them alone, it is key for them to enter
Round 38 level with São Paulo and Flamengo. And, of course, do their
homework.
--
Lléo
milivella
Is this your way to celebrate the fact that you've mathematically
clinched the title?! Congratulations! :)
It could be the right time to write something about the Maluco game in
general, but I'll wait until the end of the league. (If you can't read
between lines: if I'll be second, the game will have been very good;
an eventual third place will lower its rating of at least one star!)
--
Cheers
milivella
Clément
> Clément:
>
> > On Nov 23, 2:08 am, Jesus Petry wrote:
>
> > > Brasileirão Maluco, Round 35:
> > > Reg Bets Total
> > > Daniele 7 +4 11
> > > Bordon 5 0 5
> > > Milivella 4 0 4
> > > Luiz 2 0 2
> > > Sid 2 -4 -2
>
> > I caught a huge break here, in a lousy round for my teams (2 points is
> > the minimum I could have had, because of the Galo-Inter head to head).
>
> Is this your way to celebrate the fact that you've mathematically
> clinched the title?! Congratulations! :)
But I haven't! (Or have I?)
At first I thought it was clinched too, since I can't lose anymore on
teams' results, nor on my own bets (since I can't do worse than -2).
But suppose either you or Sid could score high on a bet or something?
> It could be the right time to write something about the Maluco game in
> general, but I'll wait until the end of the league. (If you can't read
> between lines: if I'll be second, the game will have been very good;
> an eventual third place will lower its rating of at least one star!)
=)
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
milivella
> On Nov 24, 8:50 pm, milivella wrote:
>
>
>
> > Clément:
>
> > > On Nov 23, 2:08 am, Jesus Petry wrote:
>
> > > > Brasileirão Maluco, Round 35:
> > > > Reg Bets Total
> > > > Daniele 7 +4 11
> > > > Bordon 5 0 5
> > > > Milivella 4 0 4
> > > > Luiz 2 0 2
> > > > Sid 2 -4 -2
>
> > > I caught a huge break here, in a lousy round for my teams (2 points is
> > > the minimum I could have had, because of the Galo-Inter head to head).
>
> > Is this your way to celebrate the fact that you've mathematically
> > clinched the title?! Congratulations! :)
>
> But I haven't! (Or have I?)
>
> At first I thought it was clinched too, since I can't lose anymore on
> teams' results, nor on my own bets (since I can't do worse than -2).
> But suppose either you or Sid could score high on a bet or something?
I feel like I have a wireless connection between my brain and my
hands, and the whole thing is just down. :(
You're right, maybe you haven't mathematically clinched the title. But
you'll win it anyway. So you'll receive my congratulations again!
--
Cheers
milivella
Clément
>
> Who said league formats are boring again? :-)
There are those who defend alternative formats for legitimate, earnest
reasons. But a lot of people ask for the return of playoffs due to a
lack of knowledge about how professional football works (especially
the economic aspect of it). Others have their own agendas, of course.
Recently, I read a journalist ask (defending the playoff system) why
can't we go back to a more profitable format. The answer is simple:
because it's *not* more profitable. You only need to check data back
to 2002 to easily realize this.
In this journalist's case, I must give him the benefit of the doubt
and assume he might actually believe in what he writes (even if what
he writes detracts from his abilities to verify basic facts, which I
heard journalists might want to do every once in a while). But also it
must be noted which organization this guy works for, and what's that
organization interest on the matter.
> A while ago I heard
> Globoesporte wanted to bring back the playoffs (haven't followed that
> closely though), I hope this season will be enough reason to shut them
> up for a long while now.
Make no mistake there. If São Paulo win again, they could be even more
motivated to change the rules. In fact, they might be motivated to do
so even if Inter win. The only thing that likely would make them give
it a rest is if their favorite club win (and there are no guarantees
here either).
Globo has not the Brazilian football and clubs best interests in mind,
not even for a second. This is not completely wrong in itself, since
it is a private company that should seek their own profit. That said,
a minimum level of common sense should be in place. As it is, it's
still an unbalanced business relationship (even though the clubs seem
to be getting more bargain power in the last years).
Late 2002, they did all their could to undermine CBF's and the club's
efforts to establish the league format for 2003, and with time they
came to understand it was good business for them too, so they calmed
down and even started singing praises to the format.
But right now they feel they could make more bucks by changing the
rules, so there we go. The long term economic viability of clubs in
this country is an aftertought.
When asked about Globo's proposal to bring back the playoffs, [CBF's
president] Ricardo Teixeira replied in style. He said discussing it is
OK by him, and, while at it, they should also discuss match kick-off
times, as 21:50 is a lousy option and 19:00 would be much better. =)
As much as I hate to defend CBF and its president, I must say bravo!
CBF was the main responsible for the switch to the league format (as
many clubs didn't jump in either at first) and for its continuation,
and also for the current regulations stability. As such, CBF is also
the main responsible for the improvement of the Brasileirão lower
divisions. You must give credit where it's due.
Anyway, sorry for the business side rant. As you may know, I have some
history in professional club management, and I still belong to the
club's council. I am not actively working there right now, but the
business and management side of the sport still concern me a lot.
(By the way, we'll be playing the Copa do Brasil in 2010, yay!)
(...)
> Indeed, can't see [São Paulo] missing the Libertadores. Do they even remember
> what Copa do Brasil matches look like?
No, they probably don't. This is one of the things that actually need
to change in our football calendar. Copa do Brasil must be season-
long, and the Libertadores teams must play it, or else the tournament
is dilluted (and somewhat less legitimate).
Plus, this situation might be bad for the league too. Take
Corinthians, for example. Where would they be in the table right now,
had they not clinched a Libertadores's spot in May? It is possible
they wouldn't be any higher, but there's denying the outcome of one
tournament influences the way a club takes on the other tournament.
(...)
> Plus, Ronaldo Angelim came off the pitch saying that Goiás was paid R$
> 300 k to toughen things up for Flamengo. I wonder whether the STJD
> will "denounce" him for that.
>
> To both I can only think "yeah, right"...
Same old story.
Plus, there was that recent Palmeiras president suspension (I read
about the day it happened, so I'm not sure if he appealed or anything)
due to offenses to the referee.
He was completely out of line, and a heavy punishment is warranted.
However, I couldn't help remembering last year's refereeing "incident"
at Mineirão, when the same Simon (it was him, wasn't it?) didn't call
a supposed penalty against Cruzeiro.
There were a lot more offenses, coming from more than one club
official, all over the following week. Worse, they made actual threats
to the referee's physycal integrity.
I don't remember any punishments being issued. Maybe I'm wrong and
there was some slapping of hands after the dust settled, but I can't
recall it.
> By the way, did you see the big mosaic they made? Who else but the
> vultures, to gather 80,000 of them and spell "A MAIO TORCIDA DO MUNDU"
> etc etc (transcribed ipsis litteris, typos not mine!) :-)
No flipping way!! Are you serious?
And people still say that all those illiteracy jokes are off-base?
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Clément
> Clément:
>
> > At first I thought it was clinched too, since I can't lose anymore on
> > teams' results, nor on my own bets (since I can't do worse than -2).
> > But suppose either you or Sid could score high on a bet or something?
>
> I feel like I have a wireless connection between my brain and my
> hands, and the whole thing is just down. :(
Don't be so hard on yourself. I actually made the same mistake at
first, and had actually typed something it in my first reply to this
thread, but noticed it before posting.
Or maybe we both have issues with our respectives wireless
connections! =)
> You're right, maybe you haven't mathematically clinched the title. But
> you'll win it anyway. So you'll receive my congratulations again!
Milivella, you are always a gentleman, and I know your congratulations
are sincere. Therefore, don't be upset with me if I ask (in jest)...
are you trying a late-round jinx???? You know how congatulations in
advance usually work!
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
milivella
> On Nov 25, 6:06 pm, milivella wrote:
>
> > Clément:
>
> > > At first I thought it was clinched too, since I can't lose anymore on
> > > teams' results, nor on my own bets (since I can't do worse than -2).
> > > But suppose either you or Sid could score high on a bet or something?
>
> > I feel like I have a wireless connection between my brain and my
> > hands, and the whole thing is just down. :(
>
> Don't be so hard on yourself. I actually made the same mistake at
> first, and had actually typed something it in my first reply to this
> thread, but noticed it before posting.
>
> Or maybe we both have issues with our respectives wireless
> connections! =)
We should maybe upgrade to Brain 7.0.
> > You're right, maybe you haven't mathematically clinched the title. But
> > you'll win it anyway. So you'll receive my congratulations again!
>
> Milivella, you are always a gentleman
Wrong guy. I'm a lurid bastard.
> and I know your congratulations
> are sincere.
Yes they are!
> Therefore, don't be upset with me if I ask (in jest)...
> are you trying a late-round jinx???? You know how congatulations in
> advance usually work!
Right. Let's say that my congratulations are for being in the top spot
with 2 rounds to go.
(and for the rhymes!)
--
Cheers
milivella
Lleo
[snip]
> But right now they feel they could make more bucks by changing the
> rules, so there we go. The long term economic viability of clubs in
> this country is an aftertought.
Yes. For Globo, it is better to have the clubs owing them anticipated
quotas of TV money - and thus, in a weaker position to negotiate, or
indeed break their monopoly - than to have them with finances in
order. Since the league format allows more profit AND better planning,
maybe that's something behind this recent "bring back the playoffs
thing".
> When asked about Globo's proposal to bring back the playoffs, [CBF's
> president] Ricardo Teixeira replied in style. He said discussing it is
> OK by him, and, while at it, they should also discuss match kick-off
> times, as 21:50 is a lousy option and 19:00 would be much better. =)
>
> As much as I hate to defend CBF and its president, I must say bravo!
> CBF was the main responsible for the switch to the league format (as
> many clubs didn't jump in either at first) and for its continuation,
> and also for the current regulations stability. As such, CBF is also
> the main responsible for the improvement of the Brasileirão lower
> divisions. You must give credit where it's due.
No doubt about that.
> Anyway, sorry for the business side rant. As you may know, I have some
> history in professional club management, and I still belong to the
> club's council. I am not actively working there right now, but the
> business and management side of the sport still concern me a lot.
>
> (By the way, we'll be playing the Copa do Brasil in 2010, yay!)
Congrats! Was it via the Copa Espirito Santo? And I see Vitoria has
also won the ES Serie B this season.
> (...)
>
> > Indeed, can't see [São Paulo] missing the Libertadores. Do they even remember
> > what Copa do Brasil matches look like?
>
> No, they probably don't. This is one of the things that actually need
> to change in our football calendar. Copa do Brasil must be season-
> long, and the Libertadores teams must play it, or else the tournament
> is dilluted (and somewhat less legitimate).
>
> Plus, this situation might be bad for the league too. Take
> Corinthians, for example. Where would they be in the table right now,
> had they not clinched a Libertadores's spot in May? It is possible
> they wouldn't be any higher, but there's denying the outcome of one
> tournament influences the way a club takes on the other tournament.
Indeed. As it is, for Copa do Brasil winners the Brasileirão is just a
looong preparation round, where all they need to bother to is
finishing 16th or above.
There's still some room for improvement indeed. Btw, about that talk
of adapting the calendar to European season style, has that died off?
Never heard anything about it again.
> (...)
>
> > Plus, Ronaldo Angelim came off the pitch saying that Goiás was paid R$
> > 300 k to toughen things up for Flamengo. I wonder whether the STJD
> > will "denounce" him for that.
>
> > To both I can only think "yeah, right"...
>
> Same old story.
>
> Plus, there was that recent Palmeiras president suspension (I read
> about the day it happened, so I'm not sure if he appealed or anything)
> due to offenses to the referee.
>
> He was completely out of line, and a heavy punishment is warranted.
> However, I couldn't help remembering last year's refereeing "incident"
> at Mineirão, when the same Simon (it was him, wasn't it?) didn't call
> a supposed penalty against Cruzeiro.
>
> There were a lot more offenses, coming from more than one club
> official, all over the following week. Worse, they made actual threats
> to the referee's physycal integrity.
>
> I don't remember any punishments being issued. Maybe I'm wrong and
> there was some slapping of hands after the dust settled, but I can't
> recall it.
Actually there was punishment - for the referee (Simon, again), sent
to Serie B...
Neither the players who actually pushed him around, nor the board
members who threatened him AND published his personal cellphone had to
face any kind of punishment.
The STJD is a sorry joke. In another recent incident, Vagner Love was
recently given a two match suspension, and one of the auditors who
voted for it said he'd give him a lighter one "if his dreadlocks were
red and black, instead of green". I suppose he supports Vitoria, or
Atlético-PR? Ah, maybe Sport...
> > By the way, did you see the big mosaic they made? Who else but the
> > vultures, to gather 80,000 of them and spell "A MAIO TORCIDA DO MUNDU"
> > etc etc (transcribed ipsis litteris, typos not mine!) :-)
>
> No flipping way!! Are you serious?
>
> And people still say that all those illiteracy jokes are off-base?
>
Here it is:
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/lleo_lm/images/detail/#188/maiomundu.jpg
--
Lléo
Jesus Petry
> history in professional club management, and I still belong to the
> club's council. I am not actively working there right now, but the
> business and management side of the sport still concern me a lot.
>
> (By the way, we'll be playing the Copa do Brasil in 2010, yay!)
Wow, I've almost missed that!
Congratulations on the cup title too!
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Clément
> On 27 nov, 08:46, Clément wrote:
>
> > (By the way, we'll be playing the Copa do Brasil in 2010, yay!)
>
> Congrats! Was it via the Copa Espirito Santo? And I see Vitoria has
> also won the ES Serie B this season.
Thanks!
Yes, it was via the State Cup. And our win had the good side effect of
punishing the State League final shenanigans, as the guilty side had
cut a deal to play the Série D (hoping to clinch the Copa do Brasil
spot at Copa ES).
As you noticed, we had won the state Série B early this year, so it
wasn't a bad season at all. Plus, we won the Copa ES two days after
Vasco clinched the A+ Brasileirão, so I had the unusual experience of
becoming a "bicampeão" in a single weekend! =)
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Clément
> On 27 nov, 08:46, Clément wrote:
>
> > (By the way, we'll be playing the Copa do Brasil in 2010, yay!)
>
> Wow, I've almost missed that!
> Congratulations on the cup title too!
Thanks! We became the only club to have won every distinct competition
played in the state, so it was fun in that sense as well.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello