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Italy'68
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Lléo
Feb 23, 2012, 10:16:42 PM2/23/12
to
So here am I at home, wondering why on earth would anyone at SporTV think
that Guarani vs XV de Piracicaba was more TV-worthy than Botafogo vs
Fluminense to a non-paulista audience (but here I already know that I'm
tilting against windmills really), when I begin to do some channelflipping.
And to the above station's credit, its third channel was showing an
interesting piece on the 1968 European Nations Cup (present-day Eurocopa).
I only caught it near the end, right after some comments by Bobby Charlton
on the third place playoff match between England and the Soviet Union. So,
basically, what I got was highlights of the final, commented by some of the
players of both sides, Italy and Yugoslavia.
Those were different days. First, the system through which everyone played
in the qualifiers, and when it all was narrowed down to four teams, then
they'd pick the host for semis and final. Also, I got the impression that
teams wouldn't keep their full squads in the host nation for the lenght of
the tournament, but only the players they planned using on the actual
matchdays? This makes sense, considering how short it actually was and that
substitutions weren't allowed in national team matches back then.
There was this interview with Jovan Acimovic, who said he was in Belgrade
playing his team Red Star against Dukla Prague, "for either the Central
European Nations Cup or the Fairs Cup" (he couldn't remember which). He was
subbed off and then told to travel to Rome, as he was going to play in the
final against Italy two days later. He described how very impressed he was
with the crowded Estadio Olimpico, and by seeing players "like Facchetti".
Italian players described the Yugoslav style of then as "physical", which
apparently was the one that gave them most trouble. They went on about how
Yugoslavia was much more enthusiastic, while the Italians held them as well
as they could in the first game. From highlights and comments, Yugoslavia
scored first and could have put on a couple more, but Dino Zoff rose to the
occasion there. Then, ten minutes from time, Domenghini quickly (and
smartly) blasted a free kick under the wall, giving Pantelic no chance and
making it 1-1.
And so it ended, after a hard-fought extra time and both teams returned to
the Estadio Olimpico two days later for the replay. Italy changed five
players (one of them being Pierino Prati, who was among the interviewees. He
said he didn't begrudge not being in the replay, since "when you get this
far it doesn't really matter if you play or not, it's the title that
counts"). Yugoslavia only replaced two. But according to one of their
players (didn't catch his name), they "knew they were in for trouble" when,
minutes before kickoff, they saw Petkovic apparently feeling some stomach
pain. Since the game hadn't started already, they quickly summoned Hosic
"from the stands" to replace him and off they went.
I thought that the Yugoslavian decision of keeping basically the same team
that played a tough 120 minutes, a couple of days earlier, could have been
unwise. But of course, that's with hindsight. For the return leg Italy was
more incisive, and Gigi Riva's 12th minute goal deflated the Yugoslavians.
"The enthusiasm was gone," one of them said (again sorry for not catching
the name) " and suddenly all we wanted was to be at home". 19 minutes later
Pietro Anastasi scored the second, his first goal for Italy on his second
ever cap for the Azzurri.
The Yugoslavians eventually got back to the game, and in the second half
pressed on. But again Zoff rose to the occasion. It eventually ended 2-0,
Italy's first European title and a beautiful party at the Estadio Olimpico
stands.
In the end, a key difference of mentality showed between both teams. The
Italians showed, in the first game, an ability that I believe is crucial to
a big team: they pulled out a result even while being outplayed. They did
show resilience not to crack under pressure and strike one back when
cicumstances seemed adverse enough. It was a momentary lapse from the
Yugoslavian wall, which took too long to organize. Domenghini quickly
realized that he didn't need to wait for the whistle and noticed a small
gap. WHAM! it goes, a mere 80 minutes into the game he saves the day. Then,
in the second game they showed depth in changing half of the starting
lineup, and the mental steel to be effective when they dominated actions.
As for Yugoslavia, they were a good team but one that seemed fueled mainly
by enthusiasm and a desire to prove that their win over England (then world
champions) on the semis wasn't a fluke. Indeed, they said that even though
the loss stung, at least they had proved that. They felt they deserved to
win the first leg because they played better. And of course, they deflated
after going 1-0 down a mere 12 minutes into the replay.
This title was portrayed as a key moment for Italian football self-esteem,
after the North Korean disaster of 1966. Overall, an interesting piece on a
tournament I never knew much about. Much better than Guarani vs XV de
Piracicaba and a nice window into European national team football of the
late 60s. Here's hoping SporTV will keep showing such programs about the
"Nations Cup" phase of the Euros.
--
Lléo
PS: btw, the show ended at the same time of Botafogo vs Fluminense, which
ended in a draw and went to penalties. I switched over to their main channel
to see if they'd show the pk shootout, and it appeared they would! Images of
the Engenhão, lists of pk takers, players walking to the penalty spot, then
image fades back to the studio with a voice announcing "now on for Paulista
football news"... They showed Guarani manager Vadão's post-match interview,
which lasted a couple of penalties aside, before returning to the remaining
pks in Rio. It's not even my team involved, but ffs!
that Guarani vs XV de Piracicaba was more TV-worthy than Botafogo vs
Fluminense to a non-paulista audience (but here I already know that I'm
tilting against windmills really), when I begin to do some channelflipping.
And to the above station's credit, its third channel was showing an
interesting piece on the 1968 European Nations Cup (present-day Eurocopa).
I only caught it near the end, right after some comments by Bobby Charlton
on the third place playoff match between England and the Soviet Union. So,
basically, what I got was highlights of the final, commented by some of the
players of both sides, Italy and Yugoslavia.
Those were different days. First, the system through which everyone played
in the qualifiers, and when it all was narrowed down to four teams, then
they'd pick the host for semis and final. Also, I got the impression that
teams wouldn't keep their full squads in the host nation for the lenght of
the tournament, but only the players they planned using on the actual
matchdays? This makes sense, considering how short it actually was and that
substitutions weren't allowed in national team matches back then.
There was this interview with Jovan Acimovic, who said he was in Belgrade
playing his team Red Star against Dukla Prague, "for either the Central
European Nations Cup or the Fairs Cup" (he couldn't remember which). He was
subbed off and then told to travel to Rome, as he was going to play in the
final against Italy two days later. He described how very impressed he was
with the crowded Estadio Olimpico, and by seeing players "like Facchetti".
Italian players described the Yugoslav style of then as "physical", which
apparently was the one that gave them most trouble. They went on about how
Yugoslavia was much more enthusiastic, while the Italians held them as well
as they could in the first game. From highlights and comments, Yugoslavia
scored first and could have put on a couple more, but Dino Zoff rose to the
occasion there. Then, ten minutes from time, Domenghini quickly (and
smartly) blasted a free kick under the wall, giving Pantelic no chance and
making it 1-1.
And so it ended, after a hard-fought extra time and both teams returned to
the Estadio Olimpico two days later for the replay. Italy changed five
players (one of them being Pierino Prati, who was among the interviewees. He
said he didn't begrudge not being in the replay, since "when you get this
far it doesn't really matter if you play or not, it's the title that
counts"). Yugoslavia only replaced two. But according to one of their
players (didn't catch his name), they "knew they were in for trouble" when,
minutes before kickoff, they saw Petkovic apparently feeling some stomach
pain. Since the game hadn't started already, they quickly summoned Hosic
"from the stands" to replace him and off they went.
I thought that the Yugoslavian decision of keeping basically the same team
that played a tough 120 minutes, a couple of days earlier, could have been
unwise. But of course, that's with hindsight. For the return leg Italy was
more incisive, and Gigi Riva's 12th minute goal deflated the Yugoslavians.
"The enthusiasm was gone," one of them said (again sorry for not catching
the name) " and suddenly all we wanted was to be at home". 19 minutes later
Pietro Anastasi scored the second, his first goal for Italy on his second
ever cap for the Azzurri.
The Yugoslavians eventually got back to the game, and in the second half
pressed on. But again Zoff rose to the occasion. It eventually ended 2-0,
Italy's first European title and a beautiful party at the Estadio Olimpico
stands.
In the end, a key difference of mentality showed between both teams. The
Italians showed, in the first game, an ability that I believe is crucial to
a big team: they pulled out a result even while being outplayed. They did
show resilience not to crack under pressure and strike one back when
cicumstances seemed adverse enough. It was a momentary lapse from the
Yugoslavian wall, which took too long to organize. Domenghini quickly
realized that he didn't need to wait for the whistle and noticed a small
gap. WHAM! it goes, a mere 80 minutes into the game he saves the day. Then,
in the second game they showed depth in changing half of the starting
lineup, and the mental steel to be effective when they dominated actions.
As for Yugoslavia, they were a good team but one that seemed fueled mainly
by enthusiasm and a desire to prove that their win over England (then world
champions) on the semis wasn't a fluke. Indeed, they said that even though
the loss stung, at least they had proved that. They felt they deserved to
win the first leg because they played better. And of course, they deflated
after going 1-0 down a mere 12 minutes into the replay.
This title was portrayed as a key moment for Italian football self-esteem,
after the North Korean disaster of 1966. Overall, an interesting piece on a
tournament I never knew much about. Much better than Guarani vs XV de
Piracicaba and a nice window into European national team football of the
late 60s. Here's hoping SporTV will keep showing such programs about the
"Nations Cup" phase of the Euros.
--
Lléo
PS: btw, the show ended at the same time of Botafogo vs Fluminense, which
ended in a draw and went to penalties. I switched over to their main channel
to see if they'd show the pk shootout, and it appeared they would! Images of
the Engenhão, lists of pk takers, players walking to the penalty spot, then
image fades back to the studio with a voice announcing "now on for Paulista
football news"... They showed Guarani manager Vadão's post-match interview,
which lasted a couple of penalties aside, before returning to the remaining
pks in Rio. It's not even my team involved, but ffs!
Clément
Feb 24, 2012, 2:25:32 PM2/24/12
to
"Lléo" escreveu:
Sunday night depression.
"Well, it's 7PM on Sunday and it's time to wrap up my nice weekend with a
little more football and those few remaining beers. Let's see what's on...
and wow, it's Ponte Preta x Oeste! This should be even more exciting than
São Caetano x Portuguesa last week! Woo-hoo!!!"
[Thanks for sharing your impressions on the Euro '68 documentary.]
> PS: btw, the show ended at the same time of Botafogo vs Fluminense, which
> ended in a draw and went to penalties. I switched over to their main
> channel to see if they'd show the pk shootout, and it appeared they would!
> Images of the Engenhão, lists of pk takers, players walking to the penalty
> spot, then image fades back to the studio with a voice announcing "now on
> for Paulista football news"... They showed Guarani manager Vadão's
> post-match interview, which lasted a couple of penalties aside, before
> returning to the remaining pks in Rio. It's not even my team involved, but
> ffs!
Now this is as petty as it gets. They do these things and then come to whine
and ask for our support against "evil" Fox Sports and regulations on
subscription TV content.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
> So here am I at home, wondering why on earth would anyone at SporTV think
> that Guarani vs XV de Piracicaba was more TV-worthy than Botafogo vs
> Fluminense to a non-paulista audience (but here I already know that I'm
> tilting against windmills really),
I wonder how much their selection of Paulista league matches has to do with
> that Guarani vs XV de Piracicaba was more TV-worthy than Botafogo vs
> Fluminense to a non-paulista audience (but here I already know that I'm
> tilting against windmills really),
Sunday night depression.
"Well, it's 7PM on Sunday and it's time to wrap up my nice weekend with a
little more football and those few remaining beers. Let's see what's on...
and wow, it's Ponte Preta x Oeste! This should be even more exciting than
São Caetano x Portuguesa last week! Woo-hoo!!!"
[Thanks for sharing your impressions on the Euro '68 documentary.]
> PS: btw, the show ended at the same time of Botafogo vs Fluminense, which
> ended in a draw and went to penalties. I switched over to their main
> channel to see if they'd show the pk shootout, and it appeared they would!
> Images of the Engenhão, lists of pk takers, players walking to the penalty
> spot, then image fades back to the studio with a voice announcing "now on
> for Paulista football news"... They showed Guarani manager Vadão's
> post-match interview, which lasted a couple of penalties aside, before
> returning to the remaining pks in Rio. It's not even my team involved, but
> ffs!
and ask for our support against "evil" Fox Sports and regulations on
subscription TV content.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Bruce D. Scott
Feb 27, 2012, 7:47:40 AM2/27/12
to
=?iso-8859-1?B?TGzpbw==?= (lle...@lycos.nospam.com) wrote:
: And to the above station's credit, its third channel was showing an
I cannot think of this one without remembering "NOT Corona":
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/browse_thread/thread/fdc15df18f70e72d/1ce40a9ab9d63d1b?lnk=gst&q=not+corona#1ce40a9ab9d63d1b
Look for the post by Gaborzinho a bit less than 1/3 the way down...
Enjoy!
--
ciao,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
: And to the above station's credit, its third channel was showing an
: interesting piece on the 1968 European Nations Cup (present-day Eurocopa).
: I only caught it near the end, right after some comments by Bobby Charlton
: on the third place playoff match between England and the Soviet Union. So,
: basically, what I got was highlights of the final, commented by some of the
: players of both sides, Italy and Yugoslavia.
: Those were different days. [...]
: I only caught it near the end, right after some comments by Bobby Charlton
: on the third place playoff match between England and the Soviet Union. So,
: basically, what I got was highlights of the final, commented by some of the
: players of both sides, Italy and Yugoslavia.
I cannot think of this one without remembering "NOT Corona":
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/browse_thread/thread/fdc15df18f70e72d/1ce40a9ab9d63d1b?lnk=gst&q=not+corona#1ce40a9ab9d63d1b
Look for the post by Gaborzinho a bit less than 1/3 the way down...
Enjoy!
--
ciao,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
Futbolmetrix
Feb 27, 2012, 11:30:30 AM2/27/12
to
story is true, but why not offer some Kleenex to the Soviets? And the
FF's of this world as well...
D
MH
Feb 27, 2012, 1:16:16 PM2/27/12
to
On 12-02-23 8:16 PM, Lléo wrote:
> So here am I at home, wondering why on earth would anyone at SporTV
> think that Guarani vs XV de Piracicaba was more TV-worthy than Botafogo
> vs Fluminense to a non-paulista audience (but here I already know that
> I'm tilting against windmills really), when I begin to do some
> channelflipping. And to the above station's credit, its third channel
> was showing an interesting piece on the 1968 European Nations Cup
> (present-day Eurocopa).
>
Thanks for this.
> So here am I at home, wondering why on earth would anyone at SporTV
> think that Guarani vs XV de Piracicaba was more TV-worthy than Botafogo
> vs Fluminense to a non-paulista audience (but here I already know that
> I'm tilting against windmills really), when I begin to do some
> channelflipping. And to the above station's credit, its third channel
> was showing an interesting piece on the 1968 European Nations Cup
> (present-day Eurocopa).
>
I didn't realize Zoff was already playing for Italy at this time. If
so, why was Albertosi the man in the 1970 WC?
Werner Pichler
Feb 27, 2012, 3:13:48 PM2/27/12
to
On 27 Feb., 17:30, Futbolmetrix <futbolmet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2/27/2012 7:47 AM, Bruce D. Scott wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > =?iso-8859-1?B?TGzpbw==?= (lleo...@lycos.nospam.com) wrote:
> > : And to the above station's credit, its third channel was showing an
> > : interesting piece on the 1968 European Nations Cup (present-day Eurocopa).
>
> > : I only caught it near the end, right after some comments by Bobby Charlton
> > : on the third place playoff match between England and the Soviet Union. So,
> > : basically, what I got was highlights of the final, commented by some of the
> > : players of both sides, Italy and Yugoslavia.
>
> > : Those were different days. [...]
>
> > I cannot think of this one without remembering "NOT Corona":
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.soccer/browse_thread/thread/...
> On 2/27/2012 7:47 AM, Bruce D. Scott wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > =?iso-8859-1?B?TGzpbw==?= (lleo...@lycos.nospam.com) wrote:
> > : And to the above station's credit, its third channel was showing an
> > : interesting piece on the 1968 European Nations Cup (present-day Eurocopa).
>
> > : I only caught it near the end, right after some comments by Bobby Charlton
> > : on the third place playoff match between England and the Soviet Union. So,
> > : basically, what I got was highlights of the final, commented by some of the
> > : players of both sides, Italy and Yugoslavia.
>
> > : Those were different days. [...]
>
> > I cannot think of this one without remembering "NOT Corona":
>
>
> > Look for the post by Gaborzinho a bit less than 1/3 the way down...
> > Enjoy!
>
> Great stuff. I had missed this post at the time. Not sure whether the
> story is true,
I was curious for the source of this, too - and found both an
> > Look for the post by Gaborzinho a bit less than 1/3 the way down...
> > Enjoy!
>
> Great stuff. I had missed this post at the time. Not sure whether the
> story is true,
exact Hungarian translation of Gaborzinho's text in a Hungarian
forum (albeit dated 5 years later), crediting István Zsolt as its
source, as well as a Google Books excerpt from the 'Hungarian
Review' from 1974 in which Zsolt himself tells the story, in
different words, but with the same minutiae - the referees going
directly for a shower, Franchi's elegance, Facchetti reaching
the locker room with difficulty through the crowd of tifosi.
So Gaborzinho (who spoke highly of Zsolt on other occasions,
too) was either paraphrasing the original narrative he once read
in a Hungarian source, or - I like that hypothesis better - was
at one point told the story by Zsolt himself. :)
Ciao,
Werner
Futbolmetrix
Feb 28, 2012, 12:38:11 AM2/28/12
to
"MH" <MHno...@ucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:jigh9m$is6$1...@dont-email.me...
goalkeeper: he was still playing with Napoli at the time, and in fact, Euro
1968 marked his debut in international football. He then started some of the
qualifiers for WC70, but then was replaced by Albertosi for the actual
tournament. He only became irreplaceable after the WC, and in the run-up to
WC74, when he kept a clean sheet for Italy for 1143 consecutive minutes (a
record that still stands, if I am not mistaken).
By the way, Zoff turns 70 today. Happy birthday!
D
news:jigh9m$is6$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> Thanks for this.
> I didn't realize Zoff was already playing for Italy at this time. If so,
> why was Albertosi the man in the 1970 WC?
I guess he had not yet established himself unambiguously as the top
> Thanks for this.
> I didn't realize Zoff was already playing for Italy at this time. If so,
> why was Albertosi the man in the 1970 WC?
goalkeeper: he was still playing with Napoli at the time, and in fact, Euro
1968 marked his debut in international football. He then started some of the
qualifiers for WC70, but then was replaced by Albertosi for the actual
tournament. He only became irreplaceable after the WC, and in the run-up to
WC74, when he kept a clean sheet for Italy for 1143 consecutive minutes (a
record that still stands, if I am not mistaken).
By the way, Zoff turns 70 today. Happy birthday!
D
Bruce D. Scott
Feb 28, 2012, 7:29:41 AM2/28/12
to
Werner Pichler (wpic...@gmail.com) wrote:
: I was curious for the source of this, too - and found both an
he said Carter gave back a 1000-yr old crown and one of the conditions
was that Hungary respect foreign citizenships of Hungarians.)
: I was curious for the source of this, too - and found both an
: exact Hungarian translation of Gaborzinho's text in a Hungarian
: forum (albeit dated 5 years later), crediting Istv=E1n Zsolt as its
: source, as well as a Google Books excerpt from the 'Hungarian
: Review' from 1974 in which Zsolt himself tells the story, in
: different words, but with the same minutiae - the referees going
: directly for a shower, Franchi's elegance, Facchetti reaching
: the locker room with difficulty through the crowd of tifosi.
: So Gaborzinho (who spoke highly of Zsolt on other occasions,
: too) was either paraphrasing the original narrative he once read
: in a Hungarian source, or - I like that hypothesis better - was
: at one point told the story by Zsolt himself. :)
Are we sure he wasn't there? (Or IIRC he only went back in the 1970s;
: Review' from 1974 in which Zsolt himself tells the story, in
: different words, but with the same minutiae - the referees going
: directly for a shower, Franchi's elegance, Facchetti reaching
: the locker room with difficulty through the crowd of tifosi.
: So Gaborzinho (who spoke highly of Zsolt on other occasions,
: too) was either paraphrasing the original narrative he once read
: in a Hungarian source, or - I like that hypothesis better - was
: at one point told the story by Zsolt himself. :)
he said Carter gave back a 1000-yr old crown and one of the conditions
was that Hungary respect foreign citizenships of Hungarians.)
Werner Pichler
Feb 28, 2012, 8:02:56 AM2/28/12
to
On 28 Feb., 13:29, b...@ipp-garching.mpg.de (Bruce D. Scott) wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the final source are the personal memories of
the Hungarian referee Zsolt, who was present at the time - how
accurate these memories are, are anybody's guess.
What can be speculated on is how Gaborzinho came to knew
Zsolt's reminiscences - could be from personal contact, although
it can be determined that they have been in print already in
1974:
http://books.google.at/books?d=&hl=de&id=nRYQAQAAMAAJ&q=facchetti
The English is different ('40° centigrade' instead of '40 degrees
heat',
Shesternev 'perspiring' instead of 'bathed in perspiration', etc.) and
it's told in the first person unlike Gaborzinho's text, but the story
is the same.
Ciao.
Werner
the Hungarian referee Zsolt, who was present at the time - how
accurate these memories are, are anybody's guess.
What can be speculated on is how Gaborzinho came to knew
Zsolt's reminiscences - could be from personal contact, although
it can be determined that they have been in print already in
1974:
http://books.google.at/books?d=&hl=de&id=nRYQAQAAMAAJ&q=facchetti
The English is different ('40° centigrade' instead of '40 degrees
heat',
Shesternev 'perspiring' instead of 'bathed in perspiration', etc.) and
it's told in the first person unlike Gaborzinho's text, but the story
is the same.
Ciao.
Werner
Bruce D. Scott
Feb 28, 2012, 11:22:52 AM2/28/12
to
Werner Pichler (wpic...@gmail.com) wrote:
: I'm pretty sure that the final source are the personal memories of
: The English is different ('40=B0 centigrade' instead of '40 degrees
: I'm pretty sure that the final source are the personal memories of
: the Hungarian referee Zsolt, who was present at the time - how
: accurate these memories are, are anybody's guess.
: What can be speculated on is how Gaborzinho came to knew
: Zsolt's reminiscences - could be from personal contact, although
: it can be determined that they have been in print already in
: 1974:
: http://books.google.at/books?d=3D&hl=3Dde&id=3DnRYQAQAAMAAJ&q=3Dfacchetti
: accurate these memories are, are anybody's guess.
: What can be speculated on is how Gaborzinho came to knew
: Zsolt's reminiscences - could be from personal contact, although
: it can be determined that they have been in print already in
: 1974:
: The English is different ('40=B0 centigrade' instead of '40 degrees
: heat',
: Shesternev 'perspiring' instead of 'bathed in perspiration', etc.) and
: it's told in the first person unlike Gaborzinho's text, but the story
: is the same.
OK thanks, that's a good find!
: Shesternev 'perspiring' instead of 'bathed in perspiration', etc.) and
: it's told in the first person unlike Gaborzinho's text, but the story
: is the same.
Lléo
Feb 28, 2012, 10:09:24 PM2/28/12
to
"Bruce D. Scott" escreveu na notícia da
mensagem:jiiv0s$160v$2...@gwdu112.gwdg.de...
Great stuff, Bruce and Werner! Thanks for this!
--
Lléo
mensagem:jiiv0s$160v$2...@gwdu112.gwdg.de...
--
Lléo
Werner Pichler
Feb 29, 2012, 5:00:06 AM2/29/12
to
> mensagem:jiiv0s$160...@gwdu112.gwdg.de...
post here), but the transient nature of Usenet has its
disadvantages, too.
I know that a lot of great Gaborzinho posts can be
found on rsssf.com, but I'm delighted to find out that
somebody went to quite some pains to compile some
of his best pearls of wisdom in a forum thread - just
this very month!
http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=265676
Ciao,
Werner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Werner Pichler (wpich...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > : I'm pretty sure that the final source are the personal memories of
> > : the Hungarian referee Zsolt, who was present at the time - how
> > : accurate these memories are, are anybody's guess.
>
> > : What can be speculated on is how Gaborzinho came to knew
> > : Zsolt's reminiscences - could be from personal contact, although
> > : it can be determined that they have been in print already in
> > : 1974:
>
> > :
> >http://books.google.at/books?d=3D&hl=3Dde&id=3DnRYQAQAAMAAJ&q=3Dfacch...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Werner Pichler (wpich...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > : I'm pretty sure that the final source are the personal memories of
> > : the Hungarian referee Zsolt, who was present at the time - how
> > : accurate these memories are, are anybody's guess.
>
> > : What can be speculated on is how Gaborzinho came to knew
> > : Zsolt's reminiscences - could be from personal contact, although
> > : it can be determined that they have been in print already in
> > : 1974:
>
> > :
>
> > : The English is different ('40=B0 centigrade' instead of '40 degrees
> > : heat',
> > : Shesternev 'perspiring' instead of 'bathed in perspiration', etc.) and
> > : it's told in the first person unlike Gaborzinho's text, but the story
> > : is the same.
>
> > OK thanks, that's a good find!
>
> Great stuff, Bruce and Werner! Thanks for this!
I generally dislike web-based forums (if I didn't, I wouldn't
> > : The English is different ('40=B0 centigrade' instead of '40 degrees
> > : heat',
> > : Shesternev 'perspiring' instead of 'bathed in perspiration', etc.) and
> > : it's told in the first person unlike Gaborzinho's text, but the story
> > : is the same.
>
> > OK thanks, that's a good find!
>
> Great stuff, Bruce and Werner! Thanks for this!
post here), but the transient nature of Usenet has its
disadvantages, too.
I know that a lot of great Gaborzinho posts can be
found on rsssf.com, but I'm delighted to find out that
somebody went to quite some pains to compile some
of his best pearls of wisdom in a forum thread - just
this very month!
http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=265676
Ciao,
Werner
Clément
Feb 29, 2012, 12:51:24 PM2/29/12
to
"Werner Pichler" escreveu:
patience, on spare time.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
> I know that a lot of great Gaborzinho posts can be
> found on rsssf.com, but I'm delighted to find out that
> somebody went to quite some pains to compile some
> of his best pearls of wisdom in a forum thread - just
> this very month!
>
> http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=265676
Looks great, Werner. I'm keeping this one open on a tab to read with
> found on rsssf.com, but I'm delighted to find out that
> somebody went to quite some pains to compile some
> of his best pearls of wisdom in a forum thread - just
> this very month!
>
> http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=265676
patience, on spare time.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
Abubakr
Feb 29, 2012, 7:19:42 PM2/29/12
to
Superga plane crash which killed the bulk of the great Torino team of
the 40s was due to a smuggling operation by the players, which required
the plane to fly low over the hill. Amazing. I never knew that. All I
had ever heard was that there was fog and that the plane had
inadvertently flown too low and crashed.
--
“I think nothing of popping up at centre-half or full-back. We are all
footballers and as such should be able to perform competently in all 11
positions.” -Alfredo Di Stefano
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