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Unused Subs in World Cup finals matches
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Steve Flanagan
Jul 13, 2021, 12:36:32 PM7/13/21
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All
From the 1970 World Cup through to 1990, teams could only use 2 of 5 subs rather than from the rest of the non-starting squad.
I'm trying to compile a list of all unused subs in these World Cups. 1982 and 1990 have been completed, but I'm still missing the majority from 1970 and 1974, and smaller numbers from 1978 and 1986. Unfortunately FIFA have (in their collective wisdom!) listed all of the squad members as available substitutes for these matches.
I would be most grateful if anyone can fill in any blanks from the following (or point me to where this info may be available):
1970 (Mexico) - 26 matches
Group One: All matches except Mexico v Soviet Union
Group Two: All matches
Group Three: All matches except those involving England (so Brazil v Czechoslovakia; Romania v Czechoslovakia and Brazil v Romania)
Group Four: All matches
Quarter Finals: All matches except England v West Germany
Semi Finals: All matches
Third Place match: West Germany v Uruguay
1974 (West Germany) - 29 matches
Group One: East Germany v Australia; Chile v East Germany; Australia v Chile; East Germany v West Germany
Group Two: Yugoslavia v Zaire; Scotland v Brazil; Scotland v Yugoslavia; Zaire v Brazil
Group Three: All matches except Uruguay v Netherlands
Group Four: All matches
Semi Final Group A: All matches except Argentina v Brazil
Semi Final Group B: All matches except West Germany v Sweden
1978 (Argentina) - 9 matches
Group One: Italy v Hungary
Group Two: West Germany v Mexico; West Germany v Tunisia
Group Three: Brazil v Austria
Group Four: Netherlands v Iran
Semi Final Group A: Italy v Austria; Austria v West Germany
Semi Final Group B: Brazil v Peru; Argentina v Peru
1986 (Mexico) - 17 matches
Group A: Argentina v South Korea; South Korea v Bulgaria; Argentina v Bulgaria
Group B: Paraguay v Iraq; Mexico v Paraguay; Iraq v Belgium
Group C: Canada v France; Soviet Union v Hungary; Hungary v Canada; Soviet Union v Canada
Group D: Northern Ireland v Spain; Algeria v Spain
Group E: Uruguay v West Germany; Denmark v West Germany
Group F: All matches except those involving England (so Morocco v Poland; Poland v Portugal; Portugal v Morocco)
Many thanks in advance
Steve Flanagan
From the 1970 World Cup through to 1990, teams could only use 2 of 5 subs rather than from the rest of the non-starting squad.
I'm trying to compile a list of all unused subs in these World Cups. 1982 and 1990 have been completed, but I'm still missing the majority from 1970 and 1974, and smaller numbers from 1978 and 1986. Unfortunately FIFA have (in their collective wisdom!) listed all of the squad members as available substitutes for these matches.
I would be most grateful if anyone can fill in any blanks from the following (or point me to where this info may be available):
1970 (Mexico) - 26 matches
Group One: All matches except Mexico v Soviet Union
Group Two: All matches
Group Three: All matches except those involving England (so Brazil v Czechoslovakia; Romania v Czechoslovakia and Brazil v Romania)
Group Four: All matches
Quarter Finals: All matches except England v West Germany
Semi Finals: All matches
Third Place match: West Germany v Uruguay
1974 (West Germany) - 29 matches
Group One: East Germany v Australia; Chile v East Germany; Australia v Chile; East Germany v West Germany
Group Two: Yugoslavia v Zaire; Scotland v Brazil; Scotland v Yugoslavia; Zaire v Brazil
Group Three: All matches except Uruguay v Netherlands
Group Four: All matches
Semi Final Group A: All matches except Argentina v Brazil
Semi Final Group B: All matches except West Germany v Sweden
1978 (Argentina) - 9 matches
Group One: Italy v Hungary
Group Two: West Germany v Mexico; West Germany v Tunisia
Group Three: Brazil v Austria
Group Four: Netherlands v Iran
Semi Final Group A: Italy v Austria; Austria v West Germany
Semi Final Group B: Brazil v Peru; Argentina v Peru
1986 (Mexico) - 17 matches
Group A: Argentina v South Korea; South Korea v Bulgaria; Argentina v Bulgaria
Group B: Paraguay v Iraq; Mexico v Paraguay; Iraq v Belgium
Group C: Canada v France; Soviet Union v Hungary; Hungary v Canada; Soviet Union v Canada
Group D: Northern Ireland v Spain; Algeria v Spain
Group E: Uruguay v West Germany; Denmark v West Germany
Group F: All matches except those involving England (so Morocco v Poland; Poland v Portugal; Portugal v Morocco)
Many thanks in advance
Steve Flanagan
Futbolmetrix
Jul 13, 2021, 2:19:51 PM7/13/21
to
On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 12:36:32 PM UTC-4, Steve Flanagan wrote:
> All
>
> From the 1970 World Cup through to 1990, teams could only use 2 of 5 subs rather than from the rest of the non-starting squad.
>
> I'm trying to compile a list of all unused subs in these World Cups. 1982 and 1990 have been completed, but I'm still missing the majority from 1970 and 1974, and smaller numbers from 1978 and 1986. Unfortunately FIFA have (in their collective wisdom!) listed all of the squad members as available substitutes for these matches.
>
> I would be most grateful if anyone can fill in any blanks from the following (or point me to where this info may be available):
>
Tough one. The usual channels I would use have not been much help. One possibility would be to find videos of the original matches, but that's obviously extremely time consuming.
> All
>
> From the 1970 World Cup through to 1990, teams could only use 2 of 5 subs rather than from the rest of the non-starting squad.
>
> I'm trying to compile a list of all unused subs in these World Cups. 1982 and 1990 have been completed, but I'm still missing the majority from 1970 and 1974, and smaller numbers from 1978 and 1986. Unfortunately FIFA have (in their collective wisdom!) listed all of the squad members as available substitutes for these matches.
>
> I would be most grateful if anyone can fill in any blanks from the following (or point me to where this info may be available):
>
> Semi Finals: All matches
Italy's subs in Italy-Germany 4-3 (using the video method) were Zoff, Poletti, Juliano, Rivera and Prati. No mention of the German subs :-(
> Group One: Italy v Hungary
The Hungarian subs are listed after about 25 seconds of the video. The Italian subs are Paolo Conti, Cuccureddu, Zaccarelli, Claudio Sala and Graziani (named at about minute 2)
Sorry for being so little help :-(
Werner Pichler
Jul 13, 2021, 2:57:12 PM7/13/21
to
but so far I've been stumped. I can only say with certainty that Erwin Fuchsbichler was reserve keeper.
Ciao,
Werner
Steve Flanagan
Jul 13, 2021, 3:17:06 PM7/13/21
to
Thank you so much for the quick replies. Even though they are little snippets, they have helped and have moved me forward a tiny bit. Yes I've been trying the video route and stumbled across a nice little site (https://www.footballia.net/) which has full matches for all World Cups back to 1966 and a few matches from earlier editions (as well as matches from a lot more competitions besides) but you need to register (for free) to watch them.
Unfortunately quite a number of the videos miss out the team news at the start (or have foreign commentary which I haven't been able to pick up), plus it looks like the subs weren't even mentioned in the 1970 matches!
I agree with Werner, in that I've read so much about the Miracle of Cordoba, but nothing more than who appeared on the field. I think I've learnt about about the famous Austrian commentary than the subs :-)
Many thanks
Steve
anders t
Jul 13, 2021, 4:49:25 PM7/13/21
to
Quoting Steve Flanagan in rec.sport.soccer:
>All
>
>From the 1970 World Cup through to 1990, teams could only use 2 of 5 subs rather than from the rest of the non-starting squad.
>
>I'm trying to compile a list of all unused subs in these World Cups. 1982 and 1990 have been completed, but I'm still missing the majority from 1970 and 1974, and smaller numbers from 1978 and 1986. Unfortunately FIFA have (in their collective wisdom!) listed all of the squad members as available substitutes for these matches.
>
>I would be most grateful if anyone can fill in any blanks from the following (or point me to where this info may be available):
>
>1970 (Mexico) - 26 matches
>Group One: All matches except Mexico v Soviet Union
>Group Two: All matches
SWEDEN against Italy
>All
>
>From the 1970 World Cup through to 1990, teams could only use 2 of 5 subs rather than from the rest of the non-starting squad.
>
>I'm trying to compile a list of all unused subs in these World Cups. 1982 and 1990 have been completed, but I'm still missing the majority from 1970 and 1974, and smaller numbers from 1978 and 1986. Unfortunately FIFA have (in their collective wisdom!) listed all of the squad members as available substitutes for these matches.
>
>I would be most grateful if anyone can fill in any blanks from the following (or point me to where this info may be available):
>
>1970 (Mexico) - 26 matches
>Group One: All matches except Mexico v Soviet Union
>Group Two: All matches
Formation: 4-3-3
1 Ronnie Hellström (MV)
2 Claes Cronqvist
3 Kurt Axelsson
4 Björn Nordqvist (K)
5 Roland Grip
6 Jan Olsson
7 Tommy Svensson
8 Bo Larsson OUT 80
9 Leif Eriksson OUT 56
10 Ove Kindvall
11 Ove Grahn
Ersättare (subs)
12 Sven Gunnar Larsson (MV)
13 Krister Kristensson
14 Göran Nicklasson IN 80
15 Inge Ejderstedt IN 56
16 Sten Pålsson
SWEDEN against Israel
Formation: 4-3-3
1 Sven Gunnar Larsson (MV) (the fatal miss against Italy cost Hellström...)
2 Hans Selander
3 Kurt Axelsson
4 Jan Olsson
5 Roland Grip
6 Tommy Svensson (K)
7 Bo Larsson
8 Thomas Nordahl
9 Tom Turesson
10 Ove Kindvall
11 Örjan Persson OUT 75
Ersättare (subs)
12 Ronney Pettersson (MV)
13 Claes Cronqvist
14 Krister Kristensson
15 Göran Nicklasson
16 Sten Pålsson IN 75
SWEDEN against Uruguay
Formation: 4-3-3
1 Sven Gunnar Larsson (MV)
2 Hans Selander
3 Kurt Axelsson
4 Björn Nordqvist (K)
5 Roland Grip
6 Tommy Svensson
7 Bo Larsson
8 Göran Nicklasson OUT 84
9 Leif Eriksson
10 Ove Kindvall OUT 57
11 Örjan Persson
Ersättare (subs)
12 Ronney Pettersson (MV)
13 Claes Cronqvist
14 Krister Kristensson
15 Tom Turesson IN 57
16 Ove Grahn IN 84
>Group Three: All matches except those involving England (so Brazil v Czechoslovakia; Romania v Czechoslovakia and Brazil v Romania)
>Group Four: All matches
>Quarter Finals: All matches except England v West Germany
>Semi Finals: All matches
>Third Place match: West Germany v Uruguay
>
>1974 (West Germany) - 29 matches
>Group One: East Germany v Australia; Chile v East Germany; Australia v Chile; East Germany v West Germany
>Group Two: Yugoslavia v Zaire; Scotland v Brazil; Scotland v Yugoslavia; Zaire v Brazil
>Group Three: All matches except Uruguay v Netherlands
Formation: 4-3-3
1 Ronnie Hellström (MV)
2 Jan Olsson
3 Bo Larsson
4 Kent Karlsson
5 Björn Andersson
6 Ove Grahn
7 Staffan Tapper
8 Ove Kindvall OUT 73
9 Conny Torstensson
10 Ralf Edström
11 Roland Sandberg
Ersättare (subs)
12 Göran Hagberg (MV)
13 Roland Grip
14 Björn Nordqvist
15 Inge Ejderstedt
16 Benno Magnusson IN 73
SWEDEN against the Netherlands
Formation: 4-3-3
1 Ronnie Hellström (MV)
2 Jan Olsson OUT 74
3 Kent Karlsson
4 Björn Nordqvist
5 Björn Andersson
6 Staffan Tapper OUT 61
7 Ove Grahn
8 Bo Larsson
9 Inge Ejderstedt
10 Ralf Edström
11 Roland Sandberg
Ersättare (subs)
12 Göran Hagberg (MV)
13 Roland Grip IN 74
14 Örjan Persson IN 61
15 Conny Torstensson
16 Ove Kindvall
SWEDEN against Uruguay
Formation: 4-3-3
1 Ronnie Hellström (MV)
2 Björn Andersson
3 Kent Karlsson
4 Björn Nordqvist
5 Roland Grip
6 Ove Grahn
7 Ove Kindvall OUT 75
8 Bo Larsson
9 Benno Magnusson OUT 61
10 Ralf Edström
11 Roland Sandberg
Ersättare (subs)
12 Göran Hagberg (MV)
13 Jan Olsson
14 Staffan Tapper
15 Conny Torstensson IN 75
16 Thomas Ahlström IN 61
>Group Four: All matches
>Semi Final Group A: All matches except Argentina v Brazil
>Semi Final Group B: All matches except West Germany v Sweden
Formation: 4-3-3
1 Ronnie Hellström (MV)
2 Björn Andersson OUT 61
3 Kent Karlsson
4 Björn Nordqvist
5 Roland Grip
6 Staffan Tapper OUT 80
7 Ove Grahn
8 Bo Larsson
9 Conny Torstensson
10 Ralf Edström
11 Roland Sandberg
Ersättare (subs)
12 Göran Hagberg (MV)
13 Jörgen Augustsson IN 61
14 Claes Cronqvist
15 Inge Ejderstedt
16 Thomas Ahlström IN 80
SWEDEN against BRD (for completeness)
Formation: 4-3-3
1 Ronnie Hellström (MV)
2 Jan Olsson
3 Kent Karlsson
4 Björn Nordqvist
5 Jörgen Augustsson
6 Staffan Tapper
7 Ove Grahn
8 Bo Larsson OUT 32
9 Conny Torstensson
10 Ralf Edström
11 Roland Sandberg
Ersättare (subs)
12 Göran Hagberg (MV)
13 Roland Grip
14 Sven Lindman
15 Örjan Persson
16 Inge Ejderstedt IN 32
SWEDEN against Yugoslavia
Formation: 4-3-3
1 Ronnie Hellström (MV)
2 Jan Olsson
3 Kent Karlsson
4 Björn Nordqvist (K)
5 Jörgen Augustsson
6 Staffan Tapper
7 Ove Grahn
8 Örjan Persson
9 Conny Torstensson
10 Ralf Edström
11 Roland Sandberg
No changes!
Ersättare (subs)
12 Göran Hagberg (MV)
13 Roland Grip
14 Claes Cronqvist
15 Sven Lindman
16 Thomas Ahlström
>1978 (Argentina) - 9 matches
>Group One: Italy v Hungary
>Group Two: West Germany v Mexico; West Germany v Tunisia
>Group Three: Brazil v Austria
>Group Four: Netherlands v Iran
>Semi Final Group A: Italy v Austria; Austria v West Germany
>Semi Final Group B: Brazil v Peru; Argentina v Peru
>
>1986 (Mexico) - 17 matches
>Group A: Argentina v South Korea; South Korea v Bulgaria; Argentina v Bulgaria
>Group B: Paraguay v Iraq; Mexico v Paraguay; Iraq v Belgium
>Group C: Canada v France; Soviet Union v Hungary; Hungary v Canada; Soviet Union v Canada
>Group D: Northern Ireland v Spain; Algeria v Spain
>Group E: Uruguay v West Germany; Denmark v West Germany
>Group F: All matches except those involving England (so Morocco v Poland; Poland v Portugal; Portugal v Morocco)
>
>Many thanks in advance
>
>Steve Flanagan
Manchester United FC - CHAMPIONS
Latest: England '13 (20th) Europa '17, UEFA '08, World '08
Steve Flanagan
Jul 17, 2021, 11:23:26 AM7/17/21
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Thank you so much for these - much appreciated.
I already have the 1978 substitutes. For information, they are:
Brazil
12 Göran Hagberg (GK)
15 Torbjörn Nilsson
16 Conny Torstensson
20 Roland Andersson
22 Ralf Edström
Austria
12 Göran Hagberg (GK)
15 Torbjörn Nilsson
16 Conny Torstensson
20 Roland Andersson
22 Ralf Edström
Spain
12 Göran Hagberg (GK)
7 Anders Linderoth
11 Benny Wendt
16 Conny Torstensson
20 Roland Andersson
Regards
Steve
Steve Flanagan
Jul 20, 2021, 5:59:31 AM7/20/21
to
On Tuesday, 13 July 2021 at 21:49:25 UTC+1, anders t wrote:
Just as an aside, I had a look at the svenskfotboll.se website and for the 1978 competition it has the named substitutes as numbered 12 to 16 and the other members of the squads numbered from 90 onwards.
Regards (and thanks again for the information)
Steve
Laura Camacho
Aug 3, 2021, 11:08:18 AM8/3/21
to
I am actually looking for similar information. Where were you able to find info for 1970, 74 and 78? Additionally, how are you dealing with info for 1994-2018? The reason I am asking is that I have found info but it is faulty. For example, for the sub roster for Bulgaria vs Argentina in 1994, Maradona is listed as a sub but he had already been suspended for doping.
Steve Flanagan
Aug 3, 2021, 11:27:27 AM8/3/21
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The info for 1970, 1974 and 1978 has been sourced from a number of different places. As anders t has replied previously svenskfotboll.se provides the details for Sweden. www.englandfootballonline.com kindly provides the unused subs, for both teams, for all of England's matches. The rest has been gleaned from the very kind replies on here plus viewing the full match videos at https://www.footballia.net/ (you need to register for free to watch them). The majority of information for Netherlands has been taken from www.holland74.net and www.holland78.net (which provides the unused subs for some of their opponents as well). I also managed to glean some information from local newspaper reports as well, but they are very sporadic in providing unused substitute information.
As regards 1994 onwards, I do know that the rules were changed so that teams could use the permitted number of substitutes from the rest of the squad who were eligible to play. So, Maradona would not have been eligible (no matter what the reports on FIFA's website says), in much the same way that any player who had been sent off (or received 2 bookings) would also not have been eligible to be used as a substitute.
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Aug 14, 2021, 12:20:50 PM8/14/21
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My husband connected with Mikhail Bernatov and he was able to provide info on the GER-AUT 1978 subs. They were the following:
-GER: Fischer, Schwarzenbeck, Zewe, H. Muller and Kargus
-AUT: Happich, Persidis, Oberacher, Baumesiter and Fuchsbichler
Steve Flanagan
Aug 16, 2021, 4:18:27 AM8/16/21
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Many thanks for this - it is very much appreciated.
Regards
Steve
Ammammata
Aug 16, 2021, 4:45:17 AM8/16/21
to
Il giorno Tue 13 Jul 2021 10:49:22p, *anders t* ha inviato su
rec.sport.soccer il messaggio
news:outregte4bj13r250...@4ax.com. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:
1 Bo Derek
8 Francesco Sittard
9 Alessandro Savoldelli
10 Piergiorgio Longherino
11 Gianfernando Gatti
:)
--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........
rec.sport.soccer il messaggio
news:outregte4bj13r250...@4ax.com. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:
1 Bo Derek
> 2 Jan Olsson
> 3 Kent Karlsson
> 4 Björn Nordqvist (K)
> 5 Jörgen Augustsson
> 6 Staffan Tapper
7 Ludovico Zappaterra
> 3 Kent Karlsson
> 4 Björn Nordqvist (K)
> 5 Jörgen Augustsson
> 6 Staffan Tapper
8 Francesco Sittard
9 Alessandro Savoldelli
10 Piergiorgio Longherino
11 Gianfernando Gatti
:)
--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\
-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........
Laura Camacho
Aug 16, 2021, 10:32:30 AM8/16/21
to
Steve,
Want other games are you still missing. I have a bit of info so I may be able to help.
By the way, the previous post I was not able to understand. It seems the names are for actors, but I am not sure.
Laura Camacho
Aug 16, 2021, 10:52:06 AM8/16/21
to
Steve Flanagan
Aug 16, 2021, 11:20:25 AM8/16/21
to
Thank you for the very kind offer. As you can imagine, the 1970 and 1974 editions are proving the most elusive at present.
I have the following still to find (in reverse order):
1986 (14 matches)
Group A: Argentina v South Korea; South Korea v Bulgaria; Argentina v Bulgaria
Group B: Paraguay v Iraq; Mexico v Paraguay
Group C: Soviet Union v Hungary; Hungary v Canada; Soviet Union v Canada
Group B: Paraguay v Iraq; Mexico v Paraguay
Group D: Northern Ireland v Spain; Algeria v Spain
Group E: Uruguay v West Germany; Denmark v West Germany
Group F: Morocco v Poland; Poland v Portugal
Group E: Uruguay v West Germany; Denmark v West Germany
1978 (7 matches - 4 of which are partially complete)
Group 2: West Germany v Mexico; West Germany v Tunisia
Group 3: Brazil v Austria
Group 4: Netherlands v Iran (Iran only, Netherlands complete)
SF Group A: Italy v Austria (Austria only, Italy complete)
SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only, Brazil complete); Argentina v Peru (Argentina only, Peru complete)
1974 (28 matches - 10 of which are partially complete)
Group 1: East Germany v Australia; Chile v East Germany; Australia v Chile; East Germany v West Germany (East Germany only, West Germany complete)
Group 2: Yugoslavia v Zaire (Yugoslavia only, Zaire complete); Scotland v Brazil; Scotland v Yugoslavia; Zaire v Brazil
Group 3: Sweden v Bulgaria (Bulgaria only, Sweden complete); Bulgaria v Uruguay; Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only, Netherlands complete); Sweden v Uruguay (Uruguay only, Sweden complete)
Group 4: Italy v Haiti; Poland v Argentina; Argentina v Italy; Haiti v Poland; Argentina v Haiti; Poland v Italy
SF Group A: Netherlands v Argentina (Argentina only, Netherlands complete); Brazil v East Germany; East Germany v Netherlands (East Germany only; Netherlands complete); Argentina v East Germany; Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only; Netherlands complete)
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany; Sweden v Poland (Poland only, Sweden complete); Poland v Yugoslavia; Poland v West Germany; Sweden v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only, Sweden complete)
1970 (22 matches - 4 of which are partially complete)
Group 1: Belgium v El Salvador; Soviet Union v Belgium; Mexico v El Salvador; Soviet Union v El Salvador; Mexico v Belgium
Group 2: Uruguay v Israel; Italy v Sweden (Italy only, Sweden complete); Uruguay v Italy; Sweden v Israel (Israel only, Sweden complete); Sweden v Uruguay (Uruguay only, Sweden complete), Italy v Israel
Group 3: Brazil v Czechoslovakia; Romania v Czechoslovakia; Brazil v Romania
Group 4: Peru v Bulgaria; Bulgaria v Morocco
Qtr Finals: Soviet Union v Uruguay; Italy v Mexico; Brazil v Peru
Semi Finals: Brazil v Uruguay; Italy v West Germany (West Germany only, Italy complete)
Third Place: West Germany v Uruguay
Any information you can provide will be most gratefully received.
Also, if there are any matches not on this list which you require the details for, then please do let me know. Hopefully I may be able to fill in any gaps that you may still have.
Kind regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Aug 16, 2021, 2:00:39 PM8/16/21
to
I have a few that might help you:
1986:
URU GER
Pereira Littbarski
Saralegui Rummenigge
Paz Stein
Ramos Jakobs
Otero Rolff
1978:
ITA AUT
Jara
Happich
Pirkner
Baumeister
Fuchsbichler
BRA AUT
Edinho Happich
Zico Weber
Reinaldo Schachner
Carlos Baumeister
Chicao Fuchsbichler
ARG PER
Baley
Galvan R
Houseman
Oviedo
Valencia
1974
URU SWE
Masnik
Cubilla
Santos
Cardaccio
Jimenez
If you feel that the info above is wrong or you need the sources, just let me know.
Jesus Petry
Aug 16, 2021, 2:09:40 PM8/16/21
to
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Steve Flanagan
Aug 16, 2021, 2:41:33 PM8/16/21
to
Wonderful. Thank you so much.
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Aug 17, 2021, 10:47:13 AM8/17/21
to
Here is what we have thus far regarding 1970:
BRA TCH
Ado Kvasnak
Roberto L Vesely B
Fontana Zlocha
Paulo Cesar Lima Albrecht M
Dario Vencel
BRA PER
Ado Correa R
Roberto L Gonzalez Javier
Joel C Cruzado
Paulo Cesar Lima Reyes E
Ze Maria Sotil
BRA URU
Marco Antonio Esparrago
Ado Santos H
Roberto L Sandoval
Joel C Caetano
Paulo Cesar Lima Gomez A
BUL MAR
Dimitrov I Faras
Bonev Jarir
Zhekov Dahane
Marashliev Choukri
Kamenski Ouaraghli
GER ITA
Weber W
Held
Fichtel
Libuda
Manglitz
ITA SWE
Rosato
Zoff
Rivera G
Juliano
Gori
ITA ISR
Cera Shmilovich-Rom
Zoff Talbi
Rivera G Romano
Juliano Shuruk
Gori Nossovsky
ITA MEX
Poletti Hernandez G
Zoff Borja E
Rivera G Mota A
Juliano Velarde
Gori Basaguren
MEX BEL
Hernandez G Devrindt
Borja E Trappeniers
Mota A Beurlet
Velarde Martens
Basaguren Verheyen J
URS URU
Logofet Esparrago
Kiselev Santos H
Yashin Sandoval
Nodia Caetano
Porkujan Gomez A
Futbolmetrix
Aug 17, 2021, 12:22:18 PM8/17/21
to
On Tuesday, August 17, 2021 at 10:47:13 AM UTC-4, Laura Camacho wrote:
> GER ITA
> Weber W
> Held
> Fichtel
> Libuda
> Manglitz
Italian subs: Zoff Poletti Juliano Rivera and Prati (mentioned earlier in the thread)
> GER ITA
> Weber W
> Held
> Fichtel
> Libuda
> Manglitz
Laura Camacho
Aug 17, 2021, 2:05:02 PM8/17/21
to
URU ISR
Santos H Bar
Sandoval Bello
Caetano Borba
Bareño Vollach
Cortes J Nossovsky
Jesper Lauridsen
Aug 17, 2021, 3:20:17 PM8/17/21
to
On 2021-08-16, Jesus Petry <jesus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Em segunda-feira, 16 de agosto de 2021 ąs 11:32:30 UTC-3, Laura Camacho escreveu:
>>
>> By the way, the previous post I was not able to understand. It seems the names are for actors, but I am not sure.
>
> I believe it was a joke about the fact that Sweden has now a player
> with a very Italian name (Guidetti).
I think it was about how the lengths of the names lined up.
>>
>> By the way, the previous post I was not able to understand. It seems the names are for actors, but I am not sure.
>
> I believe it was a joke about the fact that Sweden has now a player
> with a very Italian name (Guidetti).
Jesus Petry
Aug 17, 2021, 3:47:40 PM8/17/21
to
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Steve Flanagan
Aug 18, 2021, 5:49:16 AM8/18/21
to
That's fantastic. Just one quick query: In the ITA-ISR match you give Cera as one of the subs, but my records show him as starting. Have I got that wrong?
Regards
Steve
Steve Flanagan
Aug 18, 2021, 6:23:48 AM8/18/21
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1986 (14 matches inc. 1 partially complete {completed teams indicated by †})
Group A: Argentina v South Korea; South Korea v Bulgaria; Argentina v Bulgaria
Group B: Paraguay v Iraq; Mexico v Paraguay
Group C: Soviet Union v Hungary; Hungary v Canada; Soviet Union v Canada
Group D: Northern Ireland v Spain; Algeria v Spain
Group E: Denmark v West Germany
Group B: Paraguay v Iraq; Mexico v Paraguay
Group C: Soviet Union v Hungary; Hungary v Canada; Soviet Union v Canada
Group D: Northern Ireland v Spain; Algeria v Spain
Group F: Morocco v Poland; Poland v Portugal †
1978 (4 matches inc. 2 partially complete {completed teams indicated by †})
Group 2: West Germany v Mexico; West Germany v Tunisia
Group 4: Netherlands † v Iran
SF Group B: Brazil † v Peru
Group 1: East Germany v Australia; Chile v East Germany; Australia v Chile; East Germany † v West Germany
Group 2: Yugoslavia v Zaire †; Scotland v Brazil; Scotland v Yugoslavia; Zaire v Brazil
Group 3: Sweden † v Bulgaria; Bulgaria v Uruguay; Bulgaria v Netherlands †
Group 4: Italy v Haiti; Poland v Argentina; Argentina v Italy; Haiti v Poland; Argentina v Haiti; Poland v Italy
SF Group A: Netherlands † v Argentina; Brazil v East Germany; East Germany v Netherlands †; Argentina v East Germany; Netherlands † v Brazil
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany; Sweden † v Poland; Poland v Yugoslavia; Poland v West Germany; Sweden † v Yugoslavia
1970 (11 matches inc. 2 partially complete {completed teams indicated by †})
Group 1: Belgium v El Salvador; Soviet Union v Belgium; Mexico v El Salvador; Soviet Union v El Salvador
Group 2: Uruguay v Italy; Sweden † v Israel; Sweden † v Uruguay
Group 3: Romania v Czechoslovakia; Brazil v Romania
Group 4: Peru v Bulgaria
Third Place: West Germany v Uruguay
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Aug 18, 2021, 8:47:21 AM8/18/21
to
Cera was listed as sub in the source that I checked. However, it did look wrong to me since he was never listed again as a sub. This does not mean it is fully wrong, it is just weird.
Laura Camacho
Aug 18, 2021, 8:48:48 AM8/18/21
to
El miércoles, 18 de agosto de 2021 a las 4:23:48 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
Today, my husband will be checking some old printed materials from the National Library. We may have new info today. I will keep you posted.
Laura Camacho
Aug 18, 2021, 3:57:26 PM8/18/21
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My husband's visit to the library was not a fruitful as we thought. He could only find the following:
-1974
ITA ARG
Albertosi Bargas
Wilson G Chazarreta
Juliano Glaria R
Causio Squeo
Boninsegna Santoro
GDR NED
Fritsche
Ducke
Kreishe
Streich
Blochwitz
HAI ITA
Piquant Albertosi
Andre F Sabadini
Ducoste Juliano
Barthelemy Causio
Louis W Anastasi
POL SWE
Kalinowski
Bulzacki
Cmikiewicz
Domarski
Kmiecik
POL YUG
Kalinowski Muzinic
Gut Jerkovic J
Bulzacki Pavlovic M
Deyna Petrovic V
Domarski Petrovic O
BRA ZAI
Renato V Kilasu
Valdomiro Kembo
Alfredo M. F. Kabasu
Marco Antonio Mavuba M
Edu A Kalambay
Juan B
Aug 18, 2021, 6:42:19 PM8/18/21
to
Hello,
As Steve F., I am trying to find this information.
Hereby some info that I am glad to share:
1986
ARG-KOR
Byun Byung-joo, Cho Kwang-rae, Cho Byung-deuk, Cho Young-jeung, Chung Jong-soo
BUL-ARG
Zdravkov, Velitchkov, Valov, Gospodinov, Pashev
Olarticoechea, Enrique, Islas, Clausen, Pasculli
FRA-CAN
Stopyra, Rust, Bibard, Genghini, Vercruysse
W.GERMANY-URU
Littbarski, Rummenigge, Stein, Jakobs, Rolff
Saralegui, Ramos, Otero, Pereyra, Rubén Paz
POL-POR
Jaime Magalhães, Futre, Jorge Martíns, João Pinto, José António
Could anyone share the unsubs of the final ARG-W.GERMANY? Thanks
1978
ITA-HUN
Cuccureddu, Graziani, P. Conti, C. Sala, Zaccarelli
Halász, A. Tóth, Gujdár, Bálint, Török
BRA-AUT
Chicão, Zico, Carlos, Edinho, Reinaldo
Happich, Weber, Fuchsbichler, Baumeister, Schachner
HOL-IRN
Nanninga, Schrijvers, Boskamp, Brandts, Poortvliet
ITA-AUT
Cuccureddu, Graziani, P. Conti, Antognoni, C. Sala
Pirkner, Fuchsbichler, Baumeister, Happich, Jara
PER-ARG
Gorriti, Sartor, Leguía, Mosquera, Percy Rojas
Oviedo, Houseman, Baley, Rubén Galván, Valencia
I miss the unsubs for ARG in this match:
ARG-FRA
Baratelli, Berdoll, Bracci, Papi, Rouyer
And the unsubs for POL in this match:
POL-MEX
Mendizábal, Hugo Rodríguez, Lugo, Medina, Ramos
1974
HOL-SUE
De Jong, Schrijvers, Geels, Israël, Rensenbrink
Grip, Persson, Hagberg, Kindvall, Torstensson
HOL-ARG
Israël, Schrijvers, De Jong, Keizer, Willy Van de Kerkhof
HOL-RDA
Schrijvers, De Jong, Israël, Keizer, Willy Van de Kerkhof
Kreische, Ducke, Blochwitz, Fritsche, Streich
HOL-BRA
De Jong, Israël, Schrijvers, Geels, René Van de Kerkhof
I miss the unsubs for W.GERMANY-AUSTRALIA (both teams), SCOTLAND-ZAIRE (both teams),
URU-HOL (only URU), HOL-ARG (only ARG), and POL-BRA (both teams)
As Steve F., I am trying to find this information.
Hereby some info that I am glad to share:
1986
ARG-KOR
Byun Byung-joo, Cho Kwang-rae, Cho Byung-deuk, Cho Young-jeung, Chung Jong-soo
BUL-ARG
Zdravkov, Velitchkov, Valov, Gospodinov, Pashev
Olarticoechea, Enrique, Islas, Clausen, Pasculli
FRA-CAN
Stopyra, Rust, Bibard, Genghini, Vercruysse
W.GERMANY-URU
Littbarski, Rummenigge, Stein, Jakobs, Rolff
Saralegui, Ramos, Otero, Pereyra, Rubén Paz
POL-POR
Jaime Magalhães, Futre, Jorge Martíns, João Pinto, José António
Could anyone share the unsubs of the final ARG-W.GERMANY? Thanks
1978
ITA-HUN
Cuccureddu, Graziani, P. Conti, C. Sala, Zaccarelli
Halász, A. Tóth, Gujdár, Bálint, Török
BRA-AUT
Chicão, Zico, Carlos, Edinho, Reinaldo
Happich, Weber, Fuchsbichler, Baumeister, Schachner
HOL-IRN
Nanninga, Schrijvers, Boskamp, Brandts, Poortvliet
ITA-AUT
Cuccureddu, Graziani, P. Conti, Antognoni, C. Sala
Pirkner, Fuchsbichler, Baumeister, Happich, Jara
PER-ARG
Gorriti, Sartor, Leguía, Mosquera, Percy Rojas
Oviedo, Houseman, Baley, Rubén Galván, Valencia
I miss the unsubs for ARG in this match:
ARG-FRA
Baratelli, Berdoll, Bracci, Papi, Rouyer
And the unsubs for POL in this match:
POL-MEX
Mendizábal, Hugo Rodríguez, Lugo, Medina, Ramos
1974
HOL-SUE
De Jong, Schrijvers, Geels, Israël, Rensenbrink
Grip, Persson, Hagberg, Kindvall, Torstensson
HOL-ARG
Israël, Schrijvers, De Jong, Keizer, Willy Van de Kerkhof
HOL-RDA
Schrijvers, De Jong, Israël, Keizer, Willy Van de Kerkhof
Kreische, Ducke, Blochwitz, Fritsche, Streich
HOL-BRA
De Jong, Israël, Schrijvers, Geels, René Van de Kerkhof
I miss the unsubs for W.GERMANY-AUSTRALIA (both teams), SCOTLAND-ZAIRE (both teams),
URU-HOL (only URU), HOL-ARG (only ARG), and POL-BRA (both teams)
Laura Camacho
Aug 18, 2021, 7:56:26 PM8/18/21
to
Laura Camacho
Aug 18, 2021, 8:06:04 PM8/18/21
to
El miércoles, 18 de agosto de 2021 a las 16:42:19 UTC-6, Juan B escribió:
I found some additional info for 1986:
IRK PAR
Minshid Battaglia
Aufi Caceres Virginio
Abidoun Cabral
Sharif Guasch
Hamdan Hicks
MEX PAR
Cruz Francisco Battaglia
Cobos Caceres Virginio
España Caballero L
Hermosillo Guasch
Heredia O Hicks
CAN URS
Moore T Dasaev
Segota Bessonov
Vrablic Demyanenko
Pakos Zavarov
Dolan Belanov
Laura Camacho
Aug 18, 2021, 8:27:55 PM8/18/21
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URS HUN
Bubnov Varga J
Bal Dajka
Rodionov Burcsa
Chanov Viktor Szendrei
Yevtushenko Kovacs K
Laura Camacho
Aug 19, 2021, 3:00:55 PM8/19/21
to
BRA ROU
Marco Antonio Raducanu
Ado Coe
Roberto L Deleanu
Edu A Gergely
Dario Tataru
MEX SLV
Lopez Salgado Monge
Mota A Sermeño
Pulido H Castro G
Diaz Isidoro Mendez S
Basaguren Fernandez Gualberto
SLV URS
Cortes S Lovchev
Aparicio E Asatiani
Sermeño Yashin
Fernandez Gualberto Yevriuzhikin
Villalta Nodia
Laura Camacho
Aug 19, 2021, 8:31:08 PM8/19/21
to
PER BUL
Correa R Gaydarski
Gonzalez Javier Yordanov S
Cruzado Nikodimov
Castillo Jose del Marashliev
Sotil Asparuhov
GER URU
Maier Esparrago
Schulz Santos H
Haller Sandoval
Lorenz Caetano
Lohr Bareño
ITA URU
Poletti Santos H
Zoff Sandoval
Juliano Fontes
Gori Caetano
Furino Zubia
MEX URS
Munguia A Shmuts
Padilla Afonin
Mota A Kiselev
Gonzalez Jose Luis Puzach
Basaguren Kmelnitsky
URU SWE
Cubilla L
Santos H
Sandoval
Fontes
Caetano
Juan B
Aug 20, 2021, 11:38:50 AM8/20/21
to
Thanks a million for your fantastic work, Laura Camacho.
Really appreciated.
Really appreciated.
Steve Flanagan
Aug 20, 2021, 11:46:25 AM8/20/21
to
Juan - thanks you for your contributions as well - very much appreciated.
Couple of things to add:
1. Juan - you wanted to know the subs of some games, so here is what I have (squad numbers in square brackets):
1986
Argentina v W.Germany:
Arg: Clausen [8]; Garre [13]; Islas [15]; Pasculli [17]; Trobbiani [21]
W.Ger: Littbarski [7]; Voller [9]; Hoeness [20]; Rolff [21]; Immel [22]
1974
W.Germany v Australia:
W.Ger: Hottges [6]; Wimmer [7]; Netzer [10]; Holzenbein [17]; Kleff [22]
Aus: Abonyi [11]; Ollerton [13]; Williams [15]; Watkiss [18]; Milisavljevic [21]
Scotland v Zaire:
Sco: Johnstone [7]; Allan [12]; Cormack [15]; Ford [17]; Hutchison [18]
Zai: Kembo [9]; Ndimbi [12]; Mafu [15]; Mialo [16]; Ekofa [19]
Uruguay v Netherlands:
Uru: Santos [12]; Garisto [14]; Gonzalez [15]; Cardaccio [16]; Milar [19]
Netherlands v Argentina:
Arg: Unknown at present
Poland v Brazil:
Bra: Piazza [5]; Renato [12]; Marco Antonio [16]; Mirandinha [19]; Edu [20]
Pol: Fischer [1]; Gut [5]; Wieczorek [7]; Cmikiewicz [11]; Kapka [20]
Also, I have found 2 additional games:
1974 - Haiti v Poland
Hai: Louis [2]; Ducoste [5]; Racine [13]; Barthelemy [18]; Piquant [21]
Pol: Fischer [1]; Gut [5]; Bulzacki [8]; Cmikiewicz [11]; Domarski [19]
1986 - Bulgaria v South Korea:
Bul: Zhelyazkov [6]; Markov [14]; Yordanov [15]; Kostadinov 20]; Valov [22]
S.Kor: Cho Byung-deuk [1]; Lee Tae-ho [6]; Kim Jong-boo [7]; Kim Sam-soo [18]; Kim Yong-se [20]
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Aug 20, 2021, 12:11:37 PM8/20/21
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Can you share your latest tally of what you have pending?
Steve Flanagan
Aug 20, 2021, 12:14:08 PM8/20/21
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Thanks to everyone's efforts (and, I think we can all agree, especially Laura [and her husband! 😁] - we have reduced the list substantially and the following is, from what I can gather, the matches still outstanding:
1970 (4 matches - 1 of which we have the details for one of the teams)
Group 1: Belgium v El Salvador; Soviet Union v Belgium
Group 3: Romania v Czechoslovakia
1974 (20 matches - 7 of which we have the details for one of the teams)
Group 1: East Germany v Australia; Chile v East Germany; Australia v Chile; East Germany v West Germany (East Germany only)
Group 2: Yugoslavia v Zaire (Yugoslavia only); Scotland v Brazil; Scotland v Yugoslavia
Group 3: Sweden v Bulgaria (Bulgaria only); Bulgaria v Uruguay; Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
Group 4: Poland v Argentina; Argentina v Haiti; Poland v Italy
SF Group A: Netherlands v Argentina (Argentina only); Brazil v East Germany; Argentina v East Germany; Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany; Poland v West Germany; Sweden v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)
---
1978 (4 matches - 2 of which we have the details for one of the teams)
Group 2: West Germany v Mexico; West Germany v Tunisia
SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only)
---
1986 (7 matches - 2 of which we have the details for one of the teams)
Group A: Argentina v South Korea (Argentina only)
Group C: Hungary v Canada
Group D: Northern Ireland v Spain; Algeria v Spain
Group E: Denmark v West Germany
---
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Aug 20, 2021, 12:27:03 PM8/20/21
to
My husband still has some additional avenues to explore, particularly newspaper reports. We will let you know what we can find.
Jesus Petry
Aug 20, 2021, 4:28:45 PM8/20/21
to
This is all very cool. I hope you can later share this with rsssf.org and even wikipedia.
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Mark
Aug 21, 2021, 3:43:06 AM8/21/21
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Laura Camacho
Aug 21, 2021, 10:28:15 PM8/21/21
to
1986:
ARG KOR
Almiron
Cuciuffo
Islas
Olarticoechea
Tapia C
Juan B
Aug 23, 2021, 3:53:19 PM8/23/21
to
Hi
Steve,
Could you please share the following matches?
1970
WEST GERMANY-MAROC
PERU-MAROC
WEST GERMANY-BULGARIA
WEST GERMANY-PERU
BRASIL-ITALY
1974
EAST GERMANY-WEST GERMANY (West Germany only)
YUGOSLAVIA-ZAIRE (Yugoslavia only)
BRASIL-ARGENTINA
WEST GERMANY-SWEDEN (West Germany only)
1978
ARGENTINA-FRANCE (Argentina only)
POLAND-MEXICO (Poland only)
Thank you!
1986
BELGIUM-IRAQ
FRANCE-CANADA (Canada only)
PORTUGAL-MAROC
About 1986:
SPAIN-ARGELIA
After checking the Spanish newspaper library (Marca, La Vanguardia, El Mundo Deportivo, etc.) at that time (June 1986), I found the following info:
Setién + Carrasco + Poli Rincón were angry at coach Miguel Muñoz and were not in the bench in that match. They 3 felt ignored by Muñoz.
Maceda played the 1st match against Brazil but got a serious injury and, at that time, he was already at the hospital in Madrid. Gordillo got injured in the previous match against Northern Ireland and was out of the team too.. So, by discard, I would say that the unsubs for Spain were:
Urruti or Ablanedo, Chendo and Julio Alberto. Sorry that can't be more precisely.
Steve,
Could you please share the following matches?
1970
WEST GERMANY-MAROC
PERU-MAROC
WEST GERMANY-BULGARIA
WEST GERMANY-PERU
BRASIL-ITALY
1974
EAST GERMANY-WEST GERMANY (West Germany only)
YUGOSLAVIA-ZAIRE (Yugoslavia only)
BRASIL-ARGENTINA
WEST GERMANY-SWEDEN (West Germany only)
1978
ARGENTINA-FRANCE (Argentina only)
POLAND-MEXICO (Poland only)
Thank you!
1986
BELGIUM-IRAQ
FRANCE-CANADA (Canada only)
PORTUGAL-MAROC
About 1986:
SPAIN-ARGELIA
After checking the Spanish newspaper library (Marca, La Vanguardia, El Mundo Deportivo, etc.) at that time (June 1986), I found the following info:
Setién + Carrasco + Poli Rincón were angry at coach Miguel Muñoz and were not in the bench in that match. They 3 felt ignored by Muñoz.
Maceda played the 1st match against Brazil but got a serious injury and, at that time, he was already at the hospital in Madrid. Gordillo got injured in the previous match against Northern Ireland and was out of the team too.. So, by discard, I would say that the unsubs for Spain were:
Urruti or Ablanedo, Chendo and Julio Alberto. Sorry that can't be more precisely.
Steve Flanagan
Aug 23, 2021, 4:47:22 PM8/23/21
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I have the following for these matches [squad numbers in brackets]:
1970
W.Germany v Morocco
WG: Schnellinger [3], Patzke [15], Lohr [17], Grabowski [20], Wolter [22]
Mor: Faras [9], Hazzaz [12], Fadili [13]. Alaoui [17], El Khiati [18]
Peru v Morocco
Per: Correa [12], Gonzalez [15], Cruzado [17], Del Castillo [18], Ramirez [22]
Mor: Fadili [13], Choukri [16], Alaoui [17], El Khiati [18], Ouaraghli [19]
W.Germany v Bulgaria
WG: Weber [6], Held [10], Patzke [15], Grabowski [20], Manglitz [21]
Bul: Shalamanov [2], Dimitrov [3], Yakimov [10], Yordanov [13], Mitkov [20]
W.Germany v Peru
WG: Weber [6], Patzke [15], Lorenz [16], Grabowski [20], Wolter [22]
Per: Correa [12], Gonzalez [15], Cruzado [17], Reyes [19], Ramirez [22]
Brazil v Italy
Bra: Marco Antonio [6], Ado [12], Roberto [13], Fontana [15], Caju [18]
Ita: Poletti [4], Zoff [12], Rivera [14], Juliano [18], Furino [21]
1974
E.Germany v W.Germany
WG: Hottges [6], Netzer [10], Bonhof [16], Holzenbein [17], Nigbur [21]
Yugoslavia v Zaire
I don't have any details of the Yugoslavia substitutes for this match I'm afraid. I only have the substitutes for Zaire.
Brazil v Argentina
Bra: Piazza [5], Renato [12], Marco Antonio [16], Mirandinha [19], Edu [20]
Arg: Carrascosa [7], Chazarreta [8], Houseman [11], Fillol [12], Perfumo [14]
W.Germany v Sweden
WG: Hottges [6], Cullmann [8], Grabowski [9], Flohe [15], Nigbur [21]
1978
Argentina v France
Arg: Alonso [1], Baley [3], Bertoni [4], Ortiz [16], Oviedo [17]
Poland v Mexico
Pol: Maculewicz [3], Rudy [10], Kupcewicz [13], Lubanski [19], Kukla [21]
1986
Belgium v Iraq
Bel: Renquin [5], Munaron [12], Grun [13], Clijsters [14], Veyt [18]
Irq: Maad Ibrahim [2], Rahim Hameed [11], Shaker Mahmoud [16], Basim Qasim [19], Ahmad Jassim [21]
France v Canada
Can: Lettieri [1], Segota [9], Pakos [13], Mitchell [14], Lowery [18]
Portugal v Morocco
Por: Martins [12], Morato [13], Diamantino [17], Aguas [19], Andre [21]
Mor: Merry [11], Ouadani [14], Amanallah [16], Souleimani [21], Mouddani [22]
Thanks you for the background to the Spain-Algeria substitutes. Very interesting, I know there was some issues with the Portugal squad during this World Cup as well.
I agree with your assumptions. I knew about Maceda and Gordillo, but I wasn't aware of the issues with Setien, Carrasco and Rincon (very interesting).
I would be very tempted to say that the substitute goalkeeper was probably Urruti as he was the sub for the games against Brazil and Northern Ireland as well as Spain's final match against Belgium, however, the following match against Denmark saw Ablanedo as the substitute goalkeeper which makes the issue a bit more complex.
Regards
Steve
Steve Flanagan
Aug 24, 2021, 7:00:58 AM8/24/21
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A few more matches now found [squad numbers in brackets]:
1974
Group One: Chile v East Germany
CHI: Rodriguez [6], Machuca [12], Yavar [17], Farias [19], Olivares [21]
EGR: Kurbjuweit [2], Schnuphase [6], Ducke [9], Kreische [10], Blochwitz [21]
Group Two: Scotland v Brazil
SCO: Blackley [6], Johnstone [7], Allan [12], Cormack [15], Hutchison [18] - still trying to locate Brazil
Group Three: Sweden v Bulgaria
SWE: Nordqvist [4], Grip [13], Magnusson [15], Ejderstedt [16], Hagberg [17]
BUL: Mihailov [9], Aladzhov [12], Vasilev [13], Borisov [20], Staykov [21]
SF Group A: Netherlands v Argentina
NET: Israel [5], De Jong [7], Keizer [9], Van De Kerkhof [11], Schrijvers [18]
ARG: Bargas [5], Chazarreta [8], Glaria [9], Kempes [13], Santoro [21]
1986
CAN: Moore [5], Segota [9], Sweeney [11], Mitchell [14], Dolan [22]
Group D: Northern Ireland v Spain
NIR: Stewart [11], Platt [12], Ramsey [16], McLelland [18], Hamilton [19]
ESP: Senor [7], Urruti [13], Chendo [15], Rincon [16], Caldere [18]
Group E: Denmark v West Germany
DEN: Simonsen [14], Qvist [16], Christensen [18], Eriksen [19], Bartram [20]
WGR: Littbarski [7], Magath [10], Rumenigge [11], Stein [12], Hoeness [20]
Group F: Poland v Portugal
POL: Przybys [2], Tarasiewicz [7], Karas [9], Zgutczynski [17], Wandzik [19]
POR: Pinto [2], Futre [10], Martins [12], Magalhaes [14], Antonio [16]
The missing games are now as follows:
1970 (4 matches inc. 1 match partially known)
Group One: Belgium v El Salvador, Soviet Union v Belgium
Group Two: Sweden v Israel (Israel only)
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia
1974 (17 matches inc. 6 matches partially known)
Group One: East Germany v Australia, Australia v Chile, East Germany v West Germany (East Germany only)
Group Two: Yugoslavia v Zaire (Yugoslavia only), Scotland v Brazil (Brazil only), Scotland v Yugoslavia
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay, Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
Group Four: Poland v Argentina, Argentina v Haiti, Poland v Italy
SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany, Argentina v East Germany, Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany, Poland v West Germany, Sweden v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)
1978 (4 matches inc. 2 matches partially known)
Group Two: West Germany v Mexico, West Germany v Tunisia
Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Iran only)
SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only)
1986 (2 matches)
Group D: Algeria v Spain
1974
Group One: Chile v East Germany
CHI: Rodriguez [6], Machuca [12], Yavar [17], Farias [19], Olivares [21]
EGR: Kurbjuweit [2], Schnuphase [6], Ducke [9], Kreische [10], Blochwitz [21]
Group Two: Scotland v Brazil
SCO: Blackley [6], Johnstone [7], Allan [12], Cormack [15], Hutchison [18] - still trying to locate Brazil
Group Three: Sweden v Bulgaria
SWE: Nordqvist [4], Grip [13], Magnusson [15], Ejderstedt [16], Hagberg [17]
BUL: Mihailov [9], Aladzhov [12], Vasilev [13], Borisov [20], Staykov [21]
SF Group A: Netherlands v Argentina
ARG: Bargas [5], Chazarreta [8], Glaria [9], Kempes [13], Santoro [21]
1986
Group C: Hungary v Canada
HUN: Roth [3], Dajka [9], Kovacs [20], Hajszan [21], Andrusch [22]
CAN: Moore [5], Segota [9], Sweeney [11], Mitchell [14], Dolan [22]
Group D: Northern Ireland v Spain
ESP: Senor [7], Urruti [13], Chendo [15], Rincon [16], Caldere [18]
Group E: Denmark v West Germany
WGR: Littbarski [7], Magath [10], Rumenigge [11], Stein [12], Hoeness [20]
Group F: Poland v Portugal
POL: Przybys [2], Tarasiewicz [7], Karas [9], Zgutczynski [17], Wandzik [19]
POR: Pinto [2], Futre [10], Martins [12], Magalhaes [14], Antonio [16]
The missing games are now as follows:
1970 (4 matches inc. 1 match partially known)
Group One: Belgium v El Salvador, Soviet Union v Belgium
Group Two: Sweden v Israel (Israel only)
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia
1974 (17 matches inc. 6 matches partially known)
Group One: East Germany v Australia, Australia v Chile, East Germany v West Germany (East Germany only)
Group Two: Yugoslavia v Zaire (Yugoslavia only), Scotland v Brazil (Brazil only), Scotland v Yugoslavia
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay, Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
Group Four: Poland v Argentina, Argentina v Haiti, Poland v Italy
SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany, Argentina v East Germany, Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany, Poland v West Germany, Sweden v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)
1978 (4 matches inc. 2 matches partially known)
Group Two: West Germany v Mexico, West Germany v Tunisia
Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Iran only)
SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only)
Group D: Algeria v Spain
Jesus Petry
Aug 24, 2021, 8:18:43 AM8/24/21
to
Tchau!
Jesus Petry
Laura Camacho
Aug 24, 2021, 10:17:28 AM8/24/21
to
Can you share the details for the following?
1974: AUS-GER, CHI-GDR
Steve Flanagan
Aug 24, 2021, 11:00:37 AM8/24/21
to
On Tuesday, 24 August 2021 at 15:17:28 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Can you share the details for the following?
>
> 1974: AUS-GER, CHI-GDR
Laura
> Steve,
>
> Can you share the details for the following?
>
> 1974: AUS-GER, CHI-GDR
Australia v West Germany
AUS: Abonyi [11], Ollerton [13], Williams [15], Watkiss [18], Milisavljevic [21]
WGR: Hottges [6], Wimmer [7], Netzer [10], Holzenbein [17], Kleff [22]
Chile v East Germany
CHI: Veliz [11], Machuca [12], Lara [14], Yavar [17], Olivares [21]
EGR: Kurbjuweit [2], Schnuphase [6], Ducke [9], Kreische [10], Blochwitz [21]
Regards
Steve
Juan B
Aug 24, 2021, 12:21:35 PM8/24/21
to
Steve,
Remarkable work.
I need only:
1974
Yugoslavia v Zaire
(The substitutes for Zaire)
Thank you so much
Remarkable work.
I need only:
1974
Yugoslavia v Zaire
(The substitutes for Zaire)
Thank you so much
Laura Camacho
Aug 24, 2021, 2:31:30 PM8/24/21
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I just realized the subs for Italy when they played Poland in 1974
Albertosi
Wilson G
Juliano
Re Cecconi
Boninsegna
Message has been deleted
Juan B
Aug 24, 2021, 4:11:06 PM8/24/21
to
1986
ESP-ALG
Ablanedo, Chendo, Julio Alberto, Señor, Eloy
ESP-ALG
Ablanedo, Chendo, Julio Alberto, Señor, Eloy
Lléo
Aug 24, 2021, 5:03:06 PM8/24/21
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Juan B escreveu:
Btw, cool thread indeed. Thanks to all of its contributors. I too hope this can find its way into rsssf
or Wikipedia :-)
--
Lléo
> 1986
>
> ESP-ALG
> Ablanedo, Chendo, Julio Alberto, Señor, Eloy
So they were rotating the reserve keepers. Brasil did that too in 1986, as well as Belgium in 1982.
>
> ESP-ALG
> Ablanedo, Chendo, Julio Alberto, Señor, Eloy
Btw, cool thread indeed. Thanks to all of its contributors. I too hope this can find its way into rsssf
or Wikipedia :-)
--
Lléo
Juan B
Aug 24, 2021, 5:58:12 PM8/24/21
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Yes, it seems so.
Finally it was possible to find the list of 16 players selected by Miguel Muñoz in this match, thanks to 'La Voz de Galicia' (online library edition). In one article, it is explained how the day before the match against Algeria, Muñoz gathered only the 16 selected players to watch videos about the opponent. The article says that Carrasco, Urruti, Setién, Rincón, Gordillo (injured) were not invited to come in.
In those years, media and National Teams were sharing the same flights, hotels, etc. so the journalists got the fresh news in first term.
Despite all the polemic around the team, Spain was kind of close to reach the semifinals (beaten by Belgium in penaltys). Zubizarreta has never been good at saving them. Ironically, Urruti, fantastic at saving penalty kicks, was on the bench in that game. For instance, one month before starting the World Cup, Urruti saved 2 penalty kicks for FC Barcelona in the CL final against Steaua Bucuresti.
I wonder what it could have happened if Muñoz put Urruti in the field for the penalty kicks (as Van Gaal did with Krul in WC 2014 against Costa Rica). We will never know :) :)
Steve Flanagan
Aug 25, 2021, 4:03:15 AM8/25/21
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Zaire subs were
7-Tshnabu
12-Ndimbi
14-Maku
15-Kibonge
18-Mavuba
Good work on the Spain subs against Algeria, and some interesting background to it as well.
Regards
Steve
Steve Flanagan
Aug 25, 2021, 8:52:02 AM8/25/21
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Some more to report. Squad numbers in brackets as usual.
1974
WGR: Hottges [6], Netzer [10], Bonhof [16], Holzenbein [17], Nigbur [21]
Argentina v East Germany
ARG: Balbuena [4], Glaria [9], Perfumo [14], Squeo [17], Santoro [21]
Still trying to locate East Germany subs
Poland v West Germany
POL: Kalinowski [3], Gut [5], Cmikiewicz [11], Kapka [20], Krniecik [21]
WGR: Hottges [6], Cullmann [8], Heynckes [11], Flohe [15], Nigbur [21]
1974
East Germany v West Germany
EGR: Lowe [8], Ducke [9], Streich [11], Hamann [17], Blochwitz [21]
WGR: Hottges [6], Netzer [10], Bonhof [16], Holzenbein [17], Nigbur [21]
Argentina v East Germany
ARG: Balbuena [4], Glaria [9], Perfumo [14], Squeo [17], Santoro [21]
Still trying to locate East Germany subs
Poland v West Germany
POL: Kalinowski [3], Gut [5], Cmikiewicz [11], Kapka [20], Krniecik [21]
WGR: Hottges [6], Cullmann [8], Heynckes [11], Flohe [15], Nigbur [21]
Laura Camacho
Aug 25, 2021, 10:22:38 AM8/25/21
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Can you share your latest tally of what still is missing?
Steve Flanagan
Aug 25, 2021, 2:02:56 PM8/25/21
to
On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 15:22:38 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Can you share your latest tally of what still is missing?
Laura
> Steve,
>
> Can you share your latest tally of what still is missing?
The current list of which team's substitutes we require is:
1970 (4 matches)
Group One: Belgium v El Salvador; Soviet Union v Belgium
Group Two: Sweden v Israel (Israel only)
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia
1974 (15 matches)
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia
Group One: East Germany v Australia; Australia v Chile
Group Two: Yugoslavia v Zaire (Yugoslavia only); Scotland v Brazil (Brazil only); Scotland v Yugoslavia
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay; Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
Group Four: Poland v Argentina; Argentina v Haiti; Poland v Italy (Poland only)
SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany; Argentina v East Germany (East Germany only); Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany; Sweden v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)
1978 (4 matches)
Group Two: West Germany v Mexico; West Germany v Tunisia
Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Iran only)
SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only)
Group D: Algeria v Spain (Algeria only) - with thanks to Juan B for confirming the 16 man squad for Spain in this match
Group F: Morocco v Poland
So just 25 matches over 4 editions still to find, and in 10 of these matches we know the substitutes for one of the teams. Considering that I started this thread looking for the information for 81 matches in total, I think we can all be proud of a fantastic job so far.
Naturally, my thanks to every single one of you who have contributed something to this project, no matter how small, but special thanks must go to Laura and her husband. Hopefully we will find the missing names to complete this sooner rather than later so we can then have a FULL history of the World Cup.
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Aug 25, 2021, 2:42:10 PM8/25/21
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I think I made a mess with my file. Can you share the subs for Per-Mar 1970?
Steve Flanagan
Aug 25, 2021, 5:00:12 PM8/25/21
to
On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 19:42:10 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Steve,
>
> I think I made a mess with my file. Can you share the subs for Per-Mar 1970?
Laura
No problem
Peru v Morocco
PER: Correa [12], Gonzalez [15], Cruzado [17], Del Castillo [18], Ramirez [22]
MAR: Fadili [13], Choukri [16], Alaoui [17], El Khiati [18], Ouaraghli [19]
Morocco only selected 19 players in their squad for 1970.
Laura Camacho
Aug 25, 2021, 9:51:11 PM8/25/21
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YUG SWE
Petkovic I
Peruzovic
Vladic
Karasi
Meskovic
Laura Camacho
Aug 26, 2021, 10:40:19 PM8/26/21
to
I have been doing a bit of research on where we can find the missing data. It seems that Italian or Argentinian newspapers would be the candidates for having this info. I have contacted some people in Argentina just to see what they can give us. For Italy, the best option would be the Corriere dello Sport newspaper. I have reviewed this last one for 1970 but there isn't any more additional info we can get from there. However, their digital archive only goes till 1972 and then jumps to 1997. Does anyone have a contact in Italy?
There is another newspaper called Corriere della Sera. This might also be a good option if the former does not work. However, we would need a contact in Italy.
Laura Camacho
Aug 27, 2021, 9:02:12 AM8/27/21
to
Futbolmetrix
Aug 27, 2021, 10:43:57 AM8/27/21
to
On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 10:40:19 PM UTC-4, Laura Camacho wrote:
>
> I have been doing a bit of research on where we can find the missing data. It seems that Italian or Argentinian newspapers would be the candidates for having this info. I have contacted some people in Argentina just to see what they can give us. For Italy, the best option would be the Corriere dello Sport newspaper.
How about the Gazzetta dello Sport? But I don't know how far back their digital archive goes.
>
> I have been doing a bit of research on where we can find the missing data. It seems that Italian or Argentinian newspapers would be the candidates for having this info. I have contacted some people in Argentina just to see what they can give us. For Italy, the best option would be the Corriere dello Sport newspaper.
Laura Camacho
Aug 27, 2021, 11:05:38 AM8/27/21
to
Futbolmetrix
Aug 27, 2021, 12:42:34 PM8/27/21
to
Laura Camacho
Aug 27, 2021, 7:27:12 PM8/27/21
to
Steve Flanagan
Aug 29, 2021, 5:56:56 PM8/29/21
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On Friday, 27 August 2021 at 14:02:12 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> I forgot to mention that English and Scottish newspapers seem to have good info but I am yet to find a good archive.
Laura
> I forgot to mention that English and Scottish newspapers seem to have good info but I am yet to find a good archive.
I've searched several British newspaper archives with no success on the outstanding matches, except I can confirm the Scotland substitutes against Yugoslavia in 1974
1974: Scotland v Yugoslavia
SCO: Blackley [6], Johnstone [7], Allan [12], Cormack [15], Hutchison [18]
Archives searched:
The Times
The Guardian
British Newspaper Archive
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Aug 30, 2021, 5:50:02 PM8/30/21
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Steve Flanagan
Aug 31, 2021, 4:26:49 AM8/31/21
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On Monday, 30 August 2021 at 22:50:02 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> El domingo, 29 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:56:56 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> Today I checked in some old Mexican, Italian and Swedish newspapers but nothing new came of it. Any ideas on where else we can look?
Laura
> El domingo, 29 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:56:56 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> Today I checked in some old Mexican, Italian and Swedish newspapers but nothing new came of it. Any ideas on where else we can look?
The 1986 details I found came from an Argentinian magazine called 'Solo Futbol' but they left out the unused subs for the Algeria v Spain and Morocco v Poland matches. I've yet to find any archives of this magazine prior to 1986.
I did think that the English magazine 'World Soccer' might have provided the information (I know they did not for 1970), but I can't find any kind of online archive. My investigations so far would suggest not, unfortunately.
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Aug 31, 2021, 10:14:25 AM8/31/21
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There is a top-class Argentinian magazine called El Gráfico. It included the reserves for the 1986 matches. However, I have been unable to find the specific issues for both of the remaining games. I am still looking for a copy of these two magazines.
Laura Camacho
Aug 31, 2021, 5:51:05 PM8/31/21
to
A contact of mine in Argentina was able to provide for the last two games we are still missing for 1986:
ALG ESP
Menad
Bensaoula
Khalidi
Chaib
Hadi
MAR POL
Oudani Przybys
Amanallah Tarasiewicz
Khairi Urban
Soulaymani Kazimierski
Mouddani Zgutczynski
Now, I know for a fact that this magazine, for 1974 and 1978, did not have the reserves. However, I do not know if it did for 1970. I asked this contact to find this out for me.
Steve Flanagan
Sep 1, 2021, 4:42:47 AM9/1/21
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As always a big thank you for finding this info (and a thank you to your very helpful contacts). That's 1986 done so we are left with 22 matches over 3 editions of the World Cup, and for 10 of these matches we know the unused subs for one of the teams - the majority of which are for the 1974 World Cup in Germany.
Here's the updated list:
1970 (4 matches inc 1 partial match)
Group One: Belgium v El Salvador, Soviet Union v Belgium
Group Two: Sweden v Israel (Israel only)
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia
1974 (14 matches inc 7 partial matches)
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia
Group One: East Germany v Australia, Australia v Chile
Group Two: Yugoslavia v Zaire (Yugoslavia only), Scotland v Brazil (Brazil only), Scotland v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay, Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
Group Four: Poland v Argentina, Argentina v Haiti, Poland v Italy (Poland only)
SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany, Argentina v East Germany (East Germany only), Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany
1978 (4 matches inc 2 partial matches)
Group Two: West Germany v Mexico, West Germany v Tunisia
Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Iran only)
SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only)
Regards
SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only)
Steve
Juan B
Sep 1, 2021, 1:15:37 PM9/1/21
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Hi team
I'd like to thank you all for your amazing work.
In my case, I got some information from Spanish newspapers. Not very productive, to be honest. :/
I am trying to contribute as much as I can. Working in this project for a long time ago, not easy to get the non-used substitutes at any specific match. You all know what I am talking about.
My question: how are you doing with those matches from WC USA 94 to more recent ones? I think that all reserves are eligible to play at any match except those that are suspended / injured.
ROM: Ion Vlădoiu was sent off in the match SWI-ROM and suspended for 3 matches. Unfortunately, I don't find any source or any official information in the following matches that is not included him on the bench. It happens the same with Maradona after the match against Greece, etc.
How are you doing with this cases? Did you find any official resource or any newspaper which shows exactly who was in the bench at every single WC match?
Thanks in advance
I'd like to thank you all for your amazing work.
In my case, I got some information from Spanish newspapers. Not very productive, to be honest. :/
I am trying to contribute as much as I can. Working in this project for a long time ago, not easy to get the non-used substitutes at any specific match. You all know what I am talking about.
My question: how are you doing with those matches from WC USA 94 to more recent ones? I think that all reserves are eligible to play at any match except those that are suspended / injured.
ROM: Ion Vlădoiu was sent off in the match SWI-ROM and suspended for 3 matches. Unfortunately, I don't find any source or any official information in the following matches that is not included him on the bench. It happens the same with Maradona after the match against Greece, etc.
How are you doing with this cases? Did you find any official resource or any newspaper which shows exactly who was in the bench at every single WC match?
Thanks in advance
Steve Flanagan
Sep 1, 2021, 2:04:39 PM9/1/21
to
I don't think any newspapers or magazines would have printed that kind of information (waste of column inches probably).
The best information I can find is from the website https://millingsteins.com/ which has this kind of information in each match (for example, Leonardo [BRA] being banned for the remainder of the World Cup after being sent off against USA in the Round of 16 - he actually received a 4 match international ban and Effenberg [GER] being sent home after gesturing to the crowd when being substituted in the group match against South Korea and thus missing the knockout games against Belgium and Bulgaria)
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Sep 1, 2021, 2:14:35 PM9/1/21
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For World Cups from 2002 to 2018 you can use the Official Fifa Reports located in their website. For 1994 and 1998, these same reports are not as useful. I would recommend following Steve's approach for these two World Cups.
I am positive that there was a statistical report for 1994 that lists this kind of info and which is separate from the Official Report. However, I have been unable to locate this report.
Juan B
Sep 2, 2021, 12:36:39 AM9/2/21
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Thank you for your replies.
I am doing the same for UEFA EURO. Is any of you in this task too?
From EURO 1988 to EURO 2020, the official site uefa.com shows exactly who was in the bench at any specific match.
I am doing the same for UEFA EURO. Is any of you in this task too?
From EURO 1988 to EURO 2020, the official site uefa.com shows exactly who was in the bench at any specific match.
Laura Camacho
Sep 3, 2021, 11:38:29 AM9/3/21
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We are about to hit a deadend, whereby progress will be very slow on the last couple of games we have to go.
I think that El Gráfico for 1970, El Corriere dello Sport 1974 and 1978 and L'Equipe for 1970, 74 and 78 could be our safest bets. I have not found good archives for none of the three. I will try and develop contacts with people with access to them.
Futbolmetrix
Sep 3, 2021, 12:40:28 PM9/3/21
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On Monday, August 30, 2021 at 5:50:02 PM UTC-4, Laura Camacho wrote:
> El domingo, 29 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:56:56 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> Today I checked in some old Mexican, Italian and Swedish newspapers but nothing new came of it. Any ideas on where else we can look?
Sweden-Israel 1970 is a historic match in Israeli football, as Spiegler's equalizer in the 56th minute is still to date Israel's only ever goal in a WC finals tournament. I've tried to look on various Israeli websites, but the best I could find was this report from Yediot Achronot:
> El domingo, 29 de agosto de 2021 a las 15:56:56 UTC-6, Steve Flanagan escribió:
> Today I checked in some old Mexican, Italian and Swedish newspapers but nothing new came of it. Any ideas on where else we can look?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lu3d4hl1d0v81tz/mon14.jpg_wa.jpg?raw=1
There is a box-score at the bottom. Unfortunately, though, it is barely legible, and I am pretty sure that it only lists the players who actually were on the pitch.
Sorry :-(
Steve Flanagan
Sep 5, 2021, 2:56:26 PM9/5/21
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I have to agree. I will see if I can find anyone who may have access to the publications you mention to see if we can find anything else.
Futbolmetrix: Great find, but I agree with you that the box score only lists the players who actually appeared on the pitch (I have a friend who can read/speak hebrew and from what they can ascertain from the image, there are only 12 names for Israel mentioned).
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Sep 6, 2021, 4:15:05 PM9/6/21
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I just found the following for 1978:
GER TUN
Zimmermann Sassi S
Konopka Aziza A
Beer Karoui
Holzenbein Mouza
Burdenski Hasni
Steve Flanagan
Sep 7, 2021, 6:11:41 AM9/7/21
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On Monday, 6 September 2021 at 21:15:05 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> Team,
>
> I just found the following for 1978:
>
> GER TUN
> Zimmermann Sassi S
> Konopka Aziza A
> Beer Karoui
> Holzenbein Mouza
> Burdenski Hasni
Laura
> Team,
>
> I just found the following for 1978:
>
> GER TUN
> Zimmermann Sassi S
> Konopka Aziza A
> Beer Karoui
> Holzenbein Mouza
> Burdenski Hasni
Great find - that's one more crossed off the list.
I've email FIFA directly to see if they can hep out, but judging by their reply, they don't seem to understand the concept of 'Unused Substitute'!!!
I've sent a reply back to try and make it more clearer to them.
Regards
Steve
Steve Flanagan
Sep 7, 2021, 8:13:28 AM9/7/21
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Another one found from 1974
YUG ZAI
[4] Muzinic [7] Tshnabu
[12] Jerkovic [12] Ndimbi
[13] Pavlovic [14] Maku
[18] Karasi [15] Kibonge
[22] Meskovic [18] Mavuba
I have managed to find that in the East Germany v Australia match from 1974, three of the five East German substitutes were [9] Ducke, [19] Seguin and [20] Hoffman.
From British newspaper reports I have found, there is a suggestion that Yugoslavia remained unchanged (starting XI and substitutes) in their next match against Scotland but I still need to confirm that.
This now leaves us with just 20 matches in the list from a starting point of 81 matches - a fantastic effort I'm sure you would agree.
The remaining matches are:
1970 (4 matches)
Group One: Belgium v El Salvador; Soviet Union v Belgium
Group Two: Sweden v Israel (Israel only)
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia
Group One: East Germany v Australia; Australia v Chile
Group Two: Scotland v Brazil (Brazil only); Scotland v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay; Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
Group Four: Poland v Argentina; Argentina v Haiti; Poland v Italy (Poland only)
SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany; Argentina v East Germany (East Germany only); Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany
1978 (3 matches)
Group Four: Poland v Argentina; Argentina v Haiti; Poland v Italy (Poland only)
SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany; Argentina v East Germany (East Germany only); Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany
Group Two: West Germany v Mexico
Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Netherlands only)
SF Group B: Brazil v Peru (Peru only)
Steve
Laura Camacho
Sep 7, 2021, 9:06:29 AM9/7/21
to
I have experienced the same thing you mention in the case for FIFA. Out of the members of the RSSSF, I have contacted a few regarding our research and a few of them come back to me with the entire list of 11 reserves and not the required five.
Werner Pichler
Sep 7, 2021, 10:07:41 AM9/7/21
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On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 2:13:28 PM UTC+2, Steve Flanagan wrote:
>
> 1978 (3 matches)
> Group Two: West Germany v Mexico
If this source is to be believed:
>
> 1978 (3 matches)
> Group Two: West Germany v Mexico
https://books.google.at/books?hl=de&id=Xp0NAAAAYAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=burdenski
West Germany: Konopka, Beer, Cullmann, Hölzenbein, Burdenski (GK)
Mexico: Gómez, Flores, Rodríguez (+ 2 subs, Soto (GK) and Lugo)
Looks realistic to me, at least for the Germans.
Ciao,
Werner
Werner Pichler
Sep 7, 2021, 10:19:47 AM9/7/21
to
On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 2:13:28 PM UTC+2, Steve Flanagan wrote:
>
>
> 1978 (3 matches)
> Group Two: West Germany v Mexico
> Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Netherlands only)
Same source:
> Group Two: West Germany v Mexico
> Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Netherlands only)
https://books.google.at/books?hl=de&id=Xp0NAAAAYAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=%22lubse+y+jan%22
Piet Schrijvers (GK), Jan Poortvliet, Harry Lubse, Jan Boskamp, (Dick Nanninga subbed in)
Ciao,
Werner
Werner Pichler
Sep 7, 2021, 10:41:51 AM9/7/21
to
https://leiden.courant.nu/issue/LD/1978-06-03/edition/0/page/11
Ciao,
Werner
Steve Flanagan
Sep 7, 2021, 11:02:44 AM9/7/21
to
Great find. Sorry my mistake that should have said "Netherlands v Iran (Iran only)"
Unfortunately the snippet search doesn't go down as far as the Iran substitutes - unless I'm searching incorrectly (which is very possible!) - or the Peru substitutes against Brazil.
It would be great if we could find an online copy somewhere.
From what else I've seen I would say that we can believe this source as I haven't found any other errors in the list of substitutes I can find when searching this book, and the substitutes we have already.
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Sep 8, 2021, 9:26:20 AM9/8/21
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Werner Pichler
Sep 9, 2021, 6:55:04 AM9/9/21
to
On Tuesday, September 7, 2021 at 2:13:28 PM UTC+2, Steve Flanagan wrote:
>
>
> This now leaves us with just 20 matches in the list from a starting point of 81 matches - a fantastic effort I'm sure you would agree.
>
>
> 1974 (13 matches)
> Group One: East Germany v Australia; Australia v Chile
> Group Two: Scotland v Brazil (Brazil only); Scotland v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)
> Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay; Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
> Group Four: Poland v Argentina; Argentina v Haiti; Poland v Italy (Poland only)
>
> SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany; Argentina v East Germany (East Germany only); Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
> SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany
All those unresolved GDR matches from 1974 bugged me. A lot of Eastern German stuff has been digitized and
> Group One: East Germany v Australia; Australia v Chile
> Group Two: Scotland v Brazil (Brazil only); Scotland v Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia only)
> Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay; Bulgaria v Netherlands (Bulgaria only)
> Group Four: Poland v Argentina; Argentina v Haiti; Poland v Italy (Poland only)
>
> SF Group A: Brazil v East Germany; Argentina v East Germany (East Germany only); Netherlands v Brazil (Brazil only)
> SF Group B: Yugoslavia v West Germany
can be easily found online (like the archives of daily newspapers Neues Deutschland and Berliner Zeitung), but
as far as I found none of them report the simple fact of who was sitting on the bench.
You can even get the Stasi reports for 'Aktion Leder' and see which players were deemed politically unreliable,
or had relatives in the West, or which one of the hand-selected 'fans' who were allowed to travel to the land of
the class enemy drank too much on the train and won't ever be allowed to leave the country again (actually you
can't - the name's been blacked out) - but nothing about unused substitutes...
Which led me back to googling, using the name of the goalkeeper that was on the bench as #2 (Blochwitz),
and excluding goalkeeper #3 (Friese). Which led me to this unlikely source, full of misspellings etc., but actually
reporting five subs on each side:
https://timarit.is/page/1453684#page/n45/mode/2up
(digitized Icelandic newspaper from June 27th, 1974)
that e.g. gives the following subs ('varamenn') for Brasil v East Germany (Lið Brasilíu and Lið A-Þýskalands)
BRA: Piazza, Renato (GK), Antonio (Marco Antônio), Mirandinha, Edu
GDR: Schuphase (misspelling: Schnuphase), Löwe, Ducke, Irmscher, Blockwitz (misspelling: Blochwitz, GK)
If you can check the reliability of these subs with the ones you already know, you might be able to fill all your
1974 gaps. Morgunblaðið should have reports on all WC matches.
Ciao,
Werner
Futbolmetrix
Sep 9, 2021, 7:01:33 AM9/9/21
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Steve Flanagan
Sep 10, 2021, 5:24:23 AM9/10/21
to
Some fantastic investigation work - many thanks. Also, love the stories about East Germany and the Stasi. I wonder if the players received any kind of special bonus for beating West Germany?
Apart from the substitutes for Brazil v East Germany which Werner kindly provided, I've managed to find another 8 matches from the newspaper link from Werner. Unfortunately there are a couple of days missing, and the early matches didn't appear to have teams listed in the match reports, but I have managed to extract the following, and based on checking the substitutes we already know, this data appears to have no issues:
Australia v Chile (Group One)
AUS: [13] Ollerton, [15] Williams, [18] Watkiss, [19] Campbell, [21] Milisavljevic
CHI: [6] Rodriguez, [12] Machuca, [17] Yavar, [19] Farias, [21] Olivares
Scotland v Brazil (Group Two)
SCO: [6] Blackley, [7] Johnstone, [12] Allan, [15] Cormack, [18] Hutchison
BRA: [12] Renato, [13] Valdomiro, [16] Marco Antonio, [17] Carpegiani, [20] Edu
Scotland v Yugoslavia (Group Two)
SCO: [6] Blackley, [7] Johnstone, [12] Allan, [15] Cormack, [18] Hutchison
YUG: [4] Muzinic, [12] Jerkovic, [13] Pavlovic, [18] Karasi, [21] Petrovic
Bulgaria v Netherlands (Group Three)
BUL: [1] Goranov, [9] Mihailov, [12] Aladzhov, [17] Nikodimov, [20] Borisov
NET: [5] Israel, [7] De Jong, [9] Keizer, [11] Van Der Kerkhof, [18] Schrijvers
Argentina v East Germany (SF Group A)
ARG: [4] Balbuena, [9] Glaria, [14] Perfumo, [17] Squeo, [21] Santoro
DDR: [5] Fritsche, [9] Ducke, [15] Vogel, [16] Irmscher, [21] Blochwitz
Netherlands v Brazil (SF Group A)
NET: [1] Geels, [5] Israel, [7] De Jong, [10] Van Der Kerkhof, [18] Schrijvers
BRA: [5] Piazza, [12] Renato, [16] Marco Antonio, [19] Mirandinha, [20] Edu
Yugoslavia v West Germany (SF Group B)
YUG: [7] Petkovic, [12] Jerkovic, [13] Pavlovic, [14] Peruzovic, [22] Meskovic
FRG: [6] Hottges, [8] Cullmann, [14] Hoeness, [15] Flohe, [21] Nigbur
This now means that out of the original 81 matches we were looking at, we have now reduced that down to 11, with the following still outstanding:
1970 (4 matches)
Group One: Belgium v El Salvador, Soviet Union v Belgium
Group Two: Sweden v Israel (Sweden only)
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia
1974 (5 matches)
Group One: East Germany v Australia
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay
Group Four: Poland v Argentina, Argentina v Haiti, Poland v Italy (Poland only)
1978 (2 matches)
Group Four: Netherlands v Iran (Iran only)
Laura Camacho
Sep 11, 2021, 1:12:22 PM9/11/21
to
Steve Flanagan
Sep 13, 2021, 6:30:12 AM9/13/21
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On Saturday, 11 September 2021 at 18:12:22 UTC+1, Laura Camacho wrote:
> I have checked a few football specific magazines (Tuttosport, Onze, Placar), but none have digital archive or good info. Any ideas on other magazines?
I was hoping that World Soccer magazine may have bee able to help, but the information I've found so far would suggest not. I know for sure they didn't for the 1970 edition.
> I have checked a few football specific magazines (Tuttosport, Onze, Placar), but none have digital archive or good info. Any ideas on other magazines?
Will keep looking
Regards
Steve
Steve Flanagan
Sep 20, 2021, 4:07:49 PM9/20/21
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Some good new.
I have managed to speak to a contact who has confirmed the final substitutes we were looking for in 1978:
Group Four - Netherlands v Iran
Iran: [2] Danaeifard, [3] Fariba, [10] Roshan, [11] Ghesghayan, [12] Mavaddat
SF Group B - Brazil v Peru
Peru: [1] Sartor, [9] Rojas, [14] Navarro, [15] Leguia, [20] Sotil
That now takes the number of matches we are looking for into single digits (just 9 matches to go).
The updated list is now:
1970 (4 matches)
Group One: Belgium v El Salvador, Soviet Union v Belgium
Group Three: Romania v Czechoslovakia
1974 (5 matches)
Group One: East Germany v Australia
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay
Group Four: Poland v Argentina, Argentina v Haiti, Poland v Italy (Poland only)
I know that information must be out there somewhere!
1974 (5 matches)
Group One: East Germany v Australia
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay
Group Four: Poland v Argentina, Argentina v Haiti, Poland v Italy (Poland only)
Regards
Steve
Laura Camacho
Sep 20, 2021, 11:40:08 PM9/20/21
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Excellent finds!!! I am still looking in old newspapers all over the place. Will keep you posted.
Message has been deleted
Juan B
Sep 21, 2021, 3:54:48 PM9/21/21
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Hello team,
1974 All matches, please check this file:
http://www.cihefe.es/cuadernosdefutbol/wp-content/upLoads/Mundial-1974.Mart%C3%ADn2.pdf
It includes every single match with the unsubs.
Group One: East Germany v Australia
RDA: Blochwitz, Hoffmann, Ducke, Kurbjuweit, Seguin
AUS: Milišavljević, Abonyi, Campbell, Watkiss, Williams
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay
BUL: Staikov, Mikhailov, Aladzhov, Stoyanov, Zhetchev
URU: Santos, Masnik, Cardaccio, Cubilla, Mario González
Group Four: Poland v Argentina, Argentina v Haiti, Poland v Italy (Poland only)
POL: Fischer, Bulzacki, Gut, Domarski, Ćmikiewicz
ARG: Santoro, Houseman, Telch, Chazarreta, Glaría
ARG: Santoro, Brindisi, Balbuena, Bargas, Glaría
HAI: Piquant, F. Leandré, M. Leandré, Austin, R. Saint-Vil
POL: Fischer, Ćmikiewicz, Bulzacki, Domarski, Gut
ITA: Albertosi, Wilson, Boninsegna, Juliano, Re Cecconi
I have checked match by match and the only difference is here:
HOL: Schrijvers, Israël, De Jong, Keizer, Willy Van de Kerkhof
BUL: Goranov, Aladzhov, Borisov, Mikhailov, ZHETCHEV
Zhetchev is included as substitute in the attached file but previously anyone here informed that the subs list is:
BUL: Goranov, Aladzhov, Borisov, Mikhailov, NIKODIMOV
In touch :)
1974 All matches, please check this file:
http://www.cihefe.es/cuadernosdefutbol/wp-content/upLoads/Mundial-1974.Mart%C3%ADn2.pdf
It includes every single match with the unsubs.
Group One: East Germany v Australia
AUS: Milišavljević, Abonyi, Campbell, Watkiss, Williams
Group Three: Bulgaria v Uruguay
URU: Santos, Masnik, Cardaccio, Cubilla, Mario González
Group Four: Poland v Argentina, Argentina v Haiti, Poland v Italy (Poland only)
ARG: Santoro, Houseman, Telch, Chazarreta, Glaría
ARG: Santoro, Brindisi, Balbuena, Bargas, Glaría
HAI: Piquant, F. Leandré, M. Leandré, Austin, R. Saint-Vil
POL: Fischer, Ćmikiewicz, Bulzacki, Domarski, Gut
ITA: Albertosi, Wilson, Boninsegna, Juliano, Re Cecconi
I have checked match by match and the only difference is here:
HOL: Schrijvers, Israël, De Jong, Keizer, Willy Van de Kerkhof
BUL: Goranov, Aladzhov, Borisov, Mikhailov, ZHETCHEV
Zhetchev is included as substitute in the attached file but previously anyone here informed that the subs list is:
BUL: Goranov, Aladzhov, Borisov, Mikhailov, NIKODIMOV
In touch :)
Laura Camacho
Sep 21, 2021, 7:31:08 PM9/21/21
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Excellent work!!! We are almost done
Laura Camacho
Sep 21, 2021, 7:36:41 PM9/21/21
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I got a historical question:
As we all know, subs were allowed for the first time at the 1970 WC. There was a limit of 5 on the bench. This lasted until 1990. For 1994 and 1998, every available player could sit on the bench. Starting in 2002, what was the rule? I think it was still possible for all available players to sit on the bench but I have also ready that only seven could sit. Any insight on this?
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