Russia OUT

[Krishna Raja Nadar]

So does Poland get a free ride to the final match against Czechia or Sweden?

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Krishna Raja Nadar a exprimé avec précision :

> Russia OUT

Absolutely scandalous !

--
Ixion

[Al Kamista]

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 6:11:04 PM UTC-5, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> Krishna Raja Nadar a exprimé avec précision :
>
> > Russia OUT
>
> Absolutely scandalous !

I am conflicted about this too. It seems that FIFA has caved-in to the (predominantly) Western rage towards this invasion. Where is the line drawn? Should Saudi Arabia be also banned for its campaign in Yemen? Israel for its apartheid policies? Should the US/UK have been banned for their illegal invasion of Iraq?

Slippery slope for sure.

[Krishna Raja Nadar]

They will all be banned when they invade another country.

[Al Kamista]

Did not happen in 2003.

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Al Kamista vient de nous annoncer :

If you ban Russia for what happens now, yes, you should ban
Saudi Arabia, Israël and you should have banned UK and US (and
even France, too).

Football uncluded FIFA had until now the quality not to do
politics. Now, they definitively lost all their credibility.

--
Ixion

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Al Kamista vient de nous annoncer :

Incredible !

--
Ixion

[Blueshirt]

Al Kamista wrote:
> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 6:11:04 PM UTC-5, ixion martin - GdBx
> wrote:
> > Krishna Raja Nadar a exprimé avec précision :
> >
> > > Russia OUT
> >
> > Absolutely scandalous !
>
> I am conflicted about this too. It seems that FIFA has caved-in to
> the (predominantly) Western rage towards this invasion.

Thank fuck for common sense that they did! It's a pity FIFA had to
follow, as opposed to lead, in the current situation. But that's always
the way with big organisations like FIFA isn't it?

Russia should of course be kicked-out of everything. Putin is a madman.

[Blueshirt]

ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
>
> Football uncluded FIFA had until now the quality not to do politics.

It's not just about politics... it's about innocent people dying.
You'll have no World Cup to watch if Russia's actions lead to a large
scale war in Europe.

> Now, they definitively lost all their credibility.

Did FIFA ever have any credibility among proper fans of the game?

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Blueshirt a formulé la demande :

> ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
>>
>> Football uncluded FIFA had until now the quality not to do
>> politics.
>
> It's not just about politics... it's about innocent people
> dying.

Oh dear... Iraki people were not innocent ? Yemeni people are
not innocent ? Libyan people only have the right to die ?
Palestinian people do not count because Jewish suffered in the
past ?

How can you explain you ban Russia now but you even did not
consider just for a while to ban United States since 2003 ?
Just because Poutin is devil and United Stated angels ?

> You'll have no World Cup to watch if Russia's actions
> lead to a large scale war in Europe.

Whether Russia is banned or not. It is not the purpose, here.

>
>> Now, they definitively lost all their credibility.
>
> Did FIFA ever have any credibility among proper fans of the
> game?

Yes, some. During Blatter's time, even if it hurts me to say
that. But seeing Infantino...

--
Ixion

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Blueshirt a exprimé avec précision :

> Russia should of course be kicked-out of everything.

Why ? Because you do not like Russia ?

--
Ixion

[Blueshirt]

ixion martin - GdBx wrote:

> Blueshirt a formulé la demande :
> > ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > >
> > > Football uncluded FIFA had until now the quality not to do
> > > politics.
> >
> > It's not just about politics... it's about innocent people dying.
>
> Oh dear... Iraki people were not innocent ? Yemeni people are not
> innocent ? Libyan people only have the right to die ? Palestinian
> people do not count because Jewish suffered in the past ?
>
> How can you explain you ban Russia now but you even did not consider
> just for a while to ban United States since 2003 ? Just because
> Poutin is devil and United Stated angels ?

The USA are certainly not angels! You are not wrong with your
comparisons, but here now in 2022 with what is going on in Ukraine, the
sanctions and bans are pretty much the only deterrent they have.
Clearly NATO does not want to trigger a full scale war.

> > You'll have no World Cup to watch if Russia's actions lead to a
> > large scale war in Europe.
>
> Whether Russia is banned or not. It is not the purpose, here.

Of course, there is a larger discussion around what you've mentioned
though. Probably for other - more politically orientate - newsgroups.
But the fact is the events in Ukraine really could lead to a larger war
in Europe. Not letting their football team play is a small issue in the
bigger picture, but IMP, morally right.

> > > Now, they definitively lost all their credibility.
> >
> > Did FIFA ever have any credibility among proper fans of the game?
>
> Yes, some. During Blatter's time, even if it hurts me to say that.
> But seeing Infantino...

Exactly!

[Blueshirt]

ixion martin - GdBx wrote:

Well, the the club I support is owned by a Russian, so that is
obviously not the case! Sanctions against Russia and Russian people
could well have a knock-on effect to my football team and their future
business.

But it's the right thing to do while the current situation is ongoing.

[Ion Saliu]

BOYCOTT UEFA, FIFA, ALL SPORTS BODIES THAT HAVE EXCLUDED RUSSIA FROM THEIR COMPETITIONS!

Ultra Axiomatics, Axiomatiques, Axiomatischen, Axiomáticos, Assiomatici et al.:

Allow me to make a few generalized remarks.

1. Sports should always be FREE of politics. Otherwise, sport is just a “slave” of the ruling political bodies. To be sure, the most compelling example was the Soviet Union.

USSR used sports as a blinding beam of propaganda. But USA has done the same thing, but in a far more sophisticated manner.

2. And this is my second point: SOPHISTICATION. The Americans are masters in PR (public relations). PR is so sophisticated that the US government is always right, no matter what.

To those authors in this grandiose thread: The United States HAS NEVER INVADED ANY COUNTRY — EVER. The USA has always been authorized by the United Nations to intervene in some regions of the globe in order to establish peace. Go back to Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq I, Afghanistan, Iraq II — The United Nations almost implored USA to intervene and establish peace and order.

On the other hand (the “left” one), USSR and the offspring Russia have never gone to the United Nations and ask for authorization to intervene militarily in some geopolitical places. Budapest 1956, Prague 1968, Poland 1980, Afghanistan 1979, Georgia 2008, Crimea 2014, Donbas 2022... All those interventions were strongly condemned by the West and, implicitly, the United Nations. Had USSR/Russia asked for authorization, the UNO would have rejected the requests.

I strongly oppose the interference of politics in sports. I only think now of the Olympic Games. They would be of no interest to me. The Olympics would be ugly, non-competitive without Russia. I did hate the Soviets in sports, especially because they always back-handed the Romanian sports, gymnastics especially.

Therefore, I would boycott all sports that excluded Russia from under their umbrellas. I plea with each and everyone in this grandiose community to do the same. First, boycott UEFA, boycott FIFA! Let them know your opinion in an email or two.

I am not pro-Putin, pro-Trump, pro-Biden. Au contraire, I leveled serious criticism at them:

• https://saliu.com/oppressors-turncoats.html
• About-Face, Turncoats: Oppressors, Profiteers in Politics, Social Life

• https://forums.saliu.com/armageddon-jesus-trump.html
• Donald Trump, Armageddon: Jesus, Second Coming

• https://www.facebook.com/Parpaluck/posts/10159682693029049
• Let Donbas go to Russia to avoid a human far-larger disaster, including nuclear annihilation of Terra

“Biden, Biden, bully bison,
Putin, Putin, you are lootin'!”


Ion Saliu
Founder of Mathematical Axiomaticism
• https://saliu.com/axiomatic.html
• Axiomatic: An Essay on Axiomaticism, Undeniable Truthfulness as Highest Human Quality.

[free.iptv...@gmail.com]

The sports should stay away of the politics problems

[Michael Falkner]

On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 2:12:10 PM UTC-8, Krishna Raja Nadar wrote:
> So does Poland get a free ride to the final match against Czechia or Sweden?

I'm assuming yes. Lemme look for something:

Stupidly enough, UEFA's website mentions nothing of the ramification, though they do give the announcement.

The match is scheduled for March 24th -- if, by a certain date before then, they are not reinstated, then Poland does get the free ride, I would assume.

Mike

[Michael Falkner]

Let me be clear on one thing:

If this goes where I think it's going, that we won't be having a Qatar 2022 in November and December will be the LEAST of our problems.

Mike

[Michael Falkner]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 4:12:59 AM UTC-8, free.iptv...@gmail.com wrote:

> The sports should stay away of the politics problems

Hahahahahahaha...

In fact, Russia is the third country in a week to be thrown out of FIFA competitions. Zimbabwe and Kenya got the boot last week for governmental interference.

Mike

[Bruce Scott]

On 2022-03-01, Al Kamista <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Did not happen in 2003.

There is more of a consensus now. Look at the Euro reaction then,
with France and Germany providing meek opposition but almost all of
the East Euros in the plus camp. Forward 20 years, and the regime
change delusion is really bearing some bad fruit, as some did predict
at the time. Fact is, too many were all too happy to encourage us to
take out the Baath, not least Iran, who were very happy to have the
USA do their dirty work for them.

I hope this nonsense is well and truly discredited now, and not just a
matter of what about them what about them for whoever wants to bash
something.

--
ciao, Bruce

[Bruce Scott]

On 2022-03-01, ixion martin - GdBx <ix...@martin.invalid> wrote:
>
> How can you explain you ban Russia now but you even did not
> consider just for a while to ban United States since 2003 ?
> Just because Poutin is devil and United Stated angels ?

Not many Euros did but I sure did. I was not alone in advocating
keeping our international conferences out of the US, not least due to
our visa policies, until we got back to international norms. But
enough of "everybody" caved, and the international fusion energy
conference went back there in 2012... our lobbying is strong.

MH and Daniele can tell us how it was in their fields.

--
ciao, Bruce

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Blueshirt a présenté l'énoncé suivant :

Why not ?

But it is dangerous to judge who is good and who is bad. Some
people will consider that a part is the good one and other
people will consider that the opposite part is. What is FIFA,
if they want to gather all countries in the World, to judge
what is good and what is bad ?

I can be the devil's advocate and give some arguments to prove
that Russia attitude has legitimacy and that Ukrain is the dark
side. Off course you will say me I am a liar or that my
arguments are not good, but it is not the purpose.

And if your ultimate argument is to say that things changed
since 2003 (why not, after all) then you have to :
- ban Saudi Arabia for their actions in Yemen,
- ban Qatar for funding ISIS,
- ban Israel for abusing Palestinian,
- ban China for abusing Ouighours,
- ban Ethiopia for killing people of Tigre,
- ban Ukrain for killing people in Donbass,
(and I surely forget other).

If you only ban Russia (or moreover Belarus), it is ideology.

--
Ixion

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Il se trouve que Michael Falkner a formulé :

UEFA should draft the next admissible team in the Nations
League so Hungary if I am not wrong.

--
Ixion

[Ion Saliu]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 5:18:21 PM UTC+2, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> Blueshirt a présenté l'énoncé suivant :
> > ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> >
> >> Blueshirt a exprimé avec précision :
> >>
> >>> Russia should of course be kicked-out of everything.
> >>
> >> Why ? Because you do not like Russia ?
> >
> > Well, the the club I support is owned by a Russian, so that
> > is obviously not the case! Sanctions against Russia and
> > Russian people could well have a knock-on effect to my
> > football team and their future business.
> >
> > But it's the right thing to do while the current situation is
> > ongoing.
> Why not ?
>
> But it is dangerous to judge who is good and who is bad. Some
> people will consider that a part is the good one and other
> people will consider that the opposite part is. What is FIFA,
> if they want to gather all countries in the World, to judge
> what is good and what is bad ?
>

D’accord, l’axiomatique!

> I can be the devil's advocate and give some arguments to prove
> that Russia attitude has legitimacy and that Ukrain is the dark
> side. Off course you will say me I am a liar or that my
> arguments are not good, but it is not the purpose.
>

The ultra-liberal media under the CNN umbrella demonizes the Russians while sanctifying the Ukrainians. I just saw a report on CNN virtually blaming the Russians for the massacre at Babi Yar in 1943.

Unfortunately, the horrific event that took place in Ukraine was done by fewer SS troops than civilian Ukrainians. Many Christian Ukrainians participated in the massacre of more than 30,000 Ukrainian Jews.
You might want to watch the TV miniseries “Holocaust” (starring a young Meryl Streep).

> And if your ultimate argument is to say that things changed
> since 2003 (why not, after all) then you have to :
> - ban Saudi Arabia for their actions in Yemen,
> - ban Qatar for funding ISIS,
> - ban Israel for abusing Palestinian,
> - ban China for abusing Ouighours,
> - ban Ethiopia for killing people of Tigre,
> - ban Ukrain for killing people in Donbass,
> (and I surely forget other).
>
> If you only ban Russia (or moreover Belarus), it is ideology.
>

D’accord, le copain! Better still, the sport governing bodies must stop banning as a manner of arse-licking Politics.

> --
> Ixion

Ion Saliu (royalty name: Parpaluck; every human, not only Boris Johnson, deserves a royalty-name and should boast one)

[Ion Saliu]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 6:57:31 PM UTC+2, Ion Saliu wrote:

> The ultra-liberal media under the CNN umbrella demonizes the Russians while sanctifying the Ukrainians. I just saw a report on CNN virtually blaming the Russians for the massacre at Babi Yar in 1943.
>

Correction -
29–30 September 1941.

[Michael Falkner]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 7:21:34 AM UTC-8, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:

> UEFA should draft the next admissible team in the Nations
> League so Hungary if I am not wrong.

That would have to be done quickly to allow for the assemblage of the squad.

Mike

[Real Mardin]

It's a fair point to note that other nations who in the past carried out hostilities toward other countries weren't banned from football. However, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because we didn't seize the opportunity to ban countries for military aggression in the past doesn't mean we should have our hands tied from doing the right thing today.

Instead of trying to find injustices in the treatment of Russia compared to past treatment of other nations, let's view the Russian ban as a start of a new chapter, the marking of a new standard. If, in a few months time (say) the USA illegally invades Canada for no justifiable reason, then I agree they should be banned too.

Finally, you suggest that sport and politics don't mix. I'm not sure this was ever the case, but where a country illegally invades another sovereign country and goes beyond the standard rules of engagement to shelling and bombing civilians, then I'm afraid every representative of the aggressor country is going to be viewed from a political lens and the Russian football team, whether playing under the Russian flag or that of the Russian Football Union, are no exception. In all walks of life Russia is being sanctioned for its actions in Ukraine and football should be no different.

Let us not forget that Ukraine could yet qualify for Qatar 2022. Had Russia not been banned, how could you expect Ukrainian players to play in the same tournament as the nation bombarding their country and killing their civilians? If they were to both progress far enough into the tournament you can only keep them apart so long.

RM

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Dans son message précédent, Michael Falkner a écrit :

Sure.

--
Ixion

[Blueshirt]

True. But I'd like to think it's not going to go *there*!

I'd like to believe that the 'talks' will make some sort of progress
and we can eventually get a ceasefire in Ukraine and then everyone can
then sit back and realise how fucking stupid they have been!

[Blueshirt]

ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
>
> But it is dangerous to judge who is good and who is bad. Some people
> will consider that a part is the good one and other people will
> consider that the opposite part is. What is FIFA, if they want to
> gather all countries in the World, to judge what is good and what is
> bad ?

Clearly not all Russians are bad, (there are Russian people protesting
against the Ukraine invasion in Moscow) and clearly not all Ukrainians
are Saints. But FIFA were left with no choice but to ban Russia as
nobody was going to play them anyway. Poland said they would not play
Russia in their play-off semi-final later this month, before FIFA even
issued their ban.

> I can be the devil's advocate and give some arguments to prove that
> Russia attitude has legitimacy and that Ukrain is the dark side. Off
> course you will say me I am a liar or that my arguments are not good,
> but it is not the purpose.

Not at all, I live in the real world. I know that NATO have been
encroaching in to former Warsaw Pact countries and Russia might have
legitimate concerns. I'm also well aware of the Azov Battalion and the
like in the Ukraine and stuff that's been going on in the Donbas
region, etc... I'm old enough to know nothing is ever black and white.

> And if your ultimate argument

I don't have an ultimate argument. Nobody has said you are wrong. The
position taken by "The West" is not consistent with other localised
aggressions over the years. But in *this* scenario, because of the
possible long-term scenario if the events in the Ukraine escalate, and
the fears of us people living in Europe, sanctioning Russia is the only
realistic option available. The other option could well be World War
III.

[Binder Dundat]

What I see happening from all of this is that with a common enemy, the Right wingers and lefties now have a common enemy and will all become friends again, at least for a couple of weeks. This is great for all the Trudeaus and Bidens and Boris'.

The conspiracy theorist in me would like to know who is behind this, I think Oil/gas companies and obviously weapon manufacturers, nothing to do with Russia reclaiming territory or wanting Ukraine resources or Putin going mad. It is always about money.

[MH]

On 2022-03-02 15:08, Blueshirt wrote:
> ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
>>
>> But it is dangerous to judge who is good and who is bad. Some people
>> will consider that a part is the good one and other people will
>> consider that the opposite part is. What is FIFA, if they want to
>> gather all countries in the World, to judge what is good and what is
>> bad ?
>
> Clearly not all Russians are bad, (there are Russian people protesting
> against the Ukraine invasion in Moscow) and clearly not all Ukrainians
> are Saints. But FIFA were left with no choice but to ban Russia as
> nobody was going to play them anyway. Poland said they would not play
> Russia in their play-off semi-final later this month, before FIFA even
> issued their ban.
>

Sure. But with these things there is a lack of consistency. In some
instances in the past when a country refused to play another one for
some reason, it was the country that refused that was banned. Thinking
of the USSR in qualification for WC 1974 (I think that was the one) who
refused to play Chile.

I am not saying that the current decision is not the best one under the
circumstances, just that it is not entirely logical based on precedent.
FIFA has been inventive in the past (having Israel qualify through the
Oceania process at one point). Not sure how they could have solved this
one though.

[MH]

On 2022-03-02 14:15, Real Mardin wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2022 at 10:18:28 PM UTC, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
>> Al Kamista vient de nous annoncer :
>>> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 6:11:04 PM UTC-5, ixion
>>> martin - GdBx wrote:
>>>> Krishna Raja Nadar a exprimé avec précision :
>>>>
>>>>> Russia OUT
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely scandalous !
>>>
>>> I am conflicted about this too. It seems that FIFA has
>>> caved-in to the (predominantly) Western rage towards this
>>> invasion. Where is the line drawn? Should Saudi Arabia be
>>> also banned for its campaign in Yemen? Israel for its
>>> apartheid policies? Should the US/UK have been banned for
>>> their illegal invasion of Iraq?
>> If you ban Russia for what happens now, yes, you should ban
>> Saudi Arabia, Israël and you should have banned UK and US (and
>> even France, too).
>>
>> Football uncluded FIFA had until now the quality not to do
>> politics. Now, they definitively lost all their credibility.
>>
>> --
>> Ixion
>
>
> It's a fair point to note that other nations who in the past carried out hostilities toward other countries weren't banned from football. However, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because we didn't seize the opportunity to ban countries for military aggression in the past doesn't mean we should have our hands tied from doing the right thing today.
>
> Instead of trying to find injustices in the treatment of Russia compared to past treatment of other nations, let's view the Russian ban as a start of a new chapter, the marking of a new standard. If, in a few months time (say) the USA illegally invades Canada for no justifiable reason,

apparently we need to be "liberated"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/28/lauren-boebert-canada-liberated-ukraine/

[Bruce Scott]

On 2022-03-03, MH <MHno...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> apparently we need to be "liberated"
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/28/
> lauren-boebert-canada-liberated-ukraine/
>
> then I agree they should be banned too.

We don't know how to ban these people without hurting our own freedoms,
or in this case even legal legitimacy. This idiot was put into
Congress by other idiots, and its inability to behave itself in any
reasonable manner, even in Congress, even in the State of the Union
Address, is clear to all who are paying attention.

--
ciao, Bruce

[Werner Pichler]

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:06:01 AM UTC+1, Binder Dundat wrote:
> What I see happening from all of this is that with a common enemy, the Right wingers and lefties now have a common enemy and will all become friends again,
> at least for a couple of weeks. This is great for all the Trudeaus and Bidens and Boris'.
>
> The conspiracy theorist in me would like to know who is behind this, I think Oil/gas companies and obviously weapon manufacturers, nothing to do with Russia
> reclaiming territory or wanting Ukraine resources or Putin going mad. It is always about money.

Are you so brainwashed by capitalism that you cannot imagine people having other motivations?

Ciao,
Werner

[Binder Dundat]

Yes I am and unfourtanetly it is usually the case.
Are you so brainwashed by the media that you think this is only about Putin liberating and saving the good people of Ukrania? Or Madman Putin wanting to kill off the good people of Ukrania. There is always far more to the story, which ever one you chose to believe.
At the very least this is about Russia wanting Ukraine's vast agriculture and natural resources, he does not care about repatriating Russians back with Russia, You could have an argument that Hitler went into Poland and Czech to save the German speaking people, but that is not the case now with Putin.

[Michael Falkner]

[Jesper Lauridsen]

On 2022-03-01, Al Kamista <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 6:11:04 PM UTC-5, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
>> Krishna Raja Nadar a exprimé avec précision :
>>
>> > Russia OUT
>>
>> Absolutely scandalous !
>
> I am conflicted about this too. It seems that FIFA has caved-in to
> the (predominantly) Western rage towards this invasion.

Poland, Czechia and Sweden have refused to play Russia. In this
situation you can either ban Russia, or give them a free pass into the
World Cup. In the latter case, you'll have a World Cup with Russia and
Serbia as the only UEFA sides. Good luck with that.

And yes, Europeans care more about a conflict in Europe, than about
some remote conflict, where none of the parties will appreciate
intervention anyway.

> Where is the line drawn?

Where a sufficiently large group of countries care about it being
drawn.

> Should Saudi Arabia be also banned for its campaign in Yemen? Israel
> for its apartheid policies? Should the US/UK have been banned for
> their illegal invasion of Iraq?

If Israel is your human rights bar, there won't be much left of CAF and AFC.

[Blueshirt]

MH wrote:
> On 2022-03-02 15:08, Blueshirt wrote:
> > ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > >
> > > But it is dangerous to judge who is good and who is bad. Some
> > > people will consider that a part is the good one and other people
> > > will consider that the opposite part is. What is FIFA, if they
> > > want to gather all countries in the World, to judge what is good
> > > and what is bad ?
> >
> > Clearly not all Russians are bad, (there are Russian people
> > protesting against the Ukraine invasion in Moscow) and clearly not
> > all Ukrainians are Saints. But FIFA were left with no choice but to
> > ban Russia as nobody was going to play them anyway. Poland said
> > they would not play Russia in their play-off semi-final later this
> > month, before FIFA even issued their ban.
>
> Sure. But with these things there is a lack of consistency. In some
> instances in the past when a country refused to play another one for
> some reason, it was the country that refused that was banned.

There is no consistency with past events, there isn't any argument
about that. Things seemed to have changed in the world though and the
current trendy word is "sportswashing".

Here's a link to an article today in The Irish Times. I'm sure our RSS
comrade ixion martin will find it interesting...

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/history-will-judge-the-ioc-and-fifa-as-hypocrites-complicit-in-sportswashing-1.4817525

[Al Kamista]

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-5, Jesper Lauridsen wrote:
> On 2022-03-01, Al Kamista <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 6:11:04 PM UTC-5, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> >> Krishna Raja Nadar a exprimé avec précision :
> >>
> >> > Russia OUT
> >>
> >> Absolutely scandalous !
> >
> > I am conflicted about this too. It seems that FIFA has caved-in to
> > the (predominantly) Western rage towards this invasion.
> Poland, Czechia and Sweden have refused to play Russia. In this
> situation you can either ban Russia, or give them a free pass into the
> World Cup. In the latter case, you'll have a World Cup with Russia and
> Serbia as the only UEFA sides. Good luck with that.

Boo fucking hoo.

66 countries boycotted the 1980 Olympics to protest Russia's invasion of Afghanistan and 14 Eastern Bloc countries boycotted 1984 in retaliation. Both games went ahead. Granted they missed many top athletes but the IOC stood its ground, and rightly so.

The great irony of course is that the US led the 1976 boycott just a few short years after setting Vietnam on fire.

Just like the Western rage today, when in 2003 US-UK-Spain-Poland all went their merry way after invading Iraq. Hell, war criminal GW Bush even got reelected.

>
> And yes, Europeans care more about a conflict in Europe, than about
> some remote conflict, where none of the parties will appreciate
> intervention anyway.
> > Where is the line drawn?
> Where a sufficiently large group of countries care about it being
> drawn.

But it's not a matter of how many here, but rather of whom. Might does not make right.

> > Should Saudi Arabia be also banned for its campaign in Yemen? Israel
> > for its apartheid policies? Should the US/UK have been banned for
> > their illegal invasion of Iraq?
> If Israel is your human rights bar, there won't be much left of CAF and AFC.

Thank you for agreeing with me. The line is so subjective that sporting bodies should stay out of the matter entirely.

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Jesper Lauridsen a émis l'idée suivante :

> On 2022-03-01, Al Kamista <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, February 28, 2022 at 6:11:04 PM UTC-5, ixion
>> martin - GdBx wrote:
>>> Krishna Raja Nadar a exprimé avec précision :
>>>
>>>> Russia OUT
>>>
>>> Absolutely scandalous !
>>
>> I am conflicted about this too. It seems that FIFA has
>> caved-in to the (predominantly) Western rage towards this
>> invasion.
>
> Poland, Czechia and Sweden have refused to play Russia. In
> this situation you can either ban Russia, or give them a free
> pass into the World Cup.

Rules are rules.
If teams refuse to play, Russia has a free pass and other teams
are banned for next edition.

> In the latter case, you'll have a
> World Cup with Russia and Serbia as the only UEFA sides. Good
> luck with that.

What is the problem ?

> And yes, Europeans care more about a conflict in Europe, than
> about some remote conflict, where none of the parties will
> appreciate intervention anyway.

Absolutely irrelevant. FIFA is not Europe.

>> Where is the line drawn?
>
> Where a sufficiently large group of countries care about it
> being drawn.

OK. Si why not refereering depending of the team ?

>> Should Saudi Arabia be also banned for its campaign in
>> Yemen? Israel for its apartheid policies? Should the US/UK
>> have been banned for their illegal invasion of Iraq?
>
> If Israel is your human rights bar,

There is a lot of countries which will see Israel banned. Maybe
more than countries wanting Russia banned.

> there won't be much left of CAF and AFC.

Exactly.

--
Ixion

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Blueshirt a présenté l'énoncé suivant :

> But in
> *this* scenario, because of the possible long-term scenario
> if the events in the Ukraine escalate, and the fears of us
> people living in Europe, sanctioning Russia is the only
> realistic option available. The other option could well be
> World War III.

In football ? Seriously ?
You really think we have the risk of a WWIII if Russia is not
banned from WC ?

--
Ixion

[ixion martin - GdBx]

Le 03/03/2022, Werner Pichler a supposé :

People may have other motivations but imagining that Oil/gas
companies and weapon manufacturers may act to ease a big war to
have more money is not out of touch with reality. What is out
of touch with reality is believing that the opposite is
impossible.

--
Ixion

[ixion martin - GdBx]

MH a couché sur son écran :

> apparently we need to be "liberated"
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/28/lauren-boebert-canada-liberated-ukraine/

Classic american overstatement.
But what happend in Canada is worrisome. Your gouvernant people
are more mad than ours is France which is not a small feat.

--
Ixion

[Blueshirt]

ixion martin - GdBx wrote:

> Blueshirt a présenté l'énoncé suivant :
>

> > But in this scenario, because of the possible long-term scenario

> > if the events in the Ukraine escalate, and the fears of us people
> > living in Europe, sanctioning Russia is the only realistic option
> > available. The other option could well be World War III.
>
> In football ? Seriously ?
> You really think we have the risk of a WWIII if Russia is not banned
> from WC ?

Don't be silly, you know exactly what I mean. Banning Russia is part of
a [supposed] deterrent by "the west" as they are tooth-less in other
ways. FIFA were left with no choice for their part in it, as nations
said they would not play Russia. But even though FIFA were dragged down
that road, it was - and is - the right thing to do.

[Binder Dundat]

Ok, I have to believe my conspiracy theory, the Fossil Fuel companies somehow got Russia to invade Ukraine so as to raise the price of gas to the point we are now paying a $1.70 a litre,!!!even though Canada probably does not import a drop of Russian oil. The attacking of Nuclear plants also lends itself to my theory of Fossil Fuel companies behind this, who wants dangerous nuclear power when you can get nice clean safe coal generated power.

Could be an even more sinister organization though, the WWEpl could be behind this. They get Putin to think he needs to invade (probably working closely with the equally sinister big Pharma to make him think he needs to get back his Ukrania), then the rightful public backlash and outrage forces Russian owners to sell and forgive the billions they pumped into the league and they give up a league they essentially made great.
WWEpl was not even a thing before Mother Russia made it big. Yup, the fricking gold diggin mofo WWEPL, I never trusted those guys, you cant walk 3 seconds within a stadium before you are practically forced at gun point to make some ridiculous bet, like who is going to take the first throw in or what minute Timo Werner is going to score, I mean come on, those are impossible bets!

[MH]

On 2022-03-04 01:16, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> MH a couché sur son écran :
>> apparently we need to be "liberated"
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/28/lauren-boebert-canada-liberated-ukraine/
>>
>
> Classic american overstatement.
> But what happend in Canada is worrisome.

Which part? Certainly it was disquieting that a small minority engaged
in an illegal protest that made no sense (most "lockdown" regulations
are provincial, not federal; US had a cross border vaccine mandate too,
so Canada on its won could have done nothing about that part), and was
tainted by some extremists views and a naive assertion that they could
reverse the result of a democratic election held only months ago, where
most Canadians voted for progressive parties that espoused mandates. (By
asking the GG to dissolve government - not within her power)

But on the other hand, the occasion was largely peaceful, and eventually
resolved. No barricades (other than snow), no setting cars on fire, no
looting,.....

Or are you concerned about the short-lived invocation of our Emergencies
act for the first time ?

Your gouvernant people are more
> mad than ours is France which is not a small feat.

?? Explain.

[Binder Dundat]

Because the CDN govt called on the Emergency act which more or less gives them the ability to do anything they want, including closing your bank account if you donated to the hot tub trucker convoy or arresting you for standing in the wrong place.

To keep this on topic and football relevant, China is banning WWEPL game on tv this week in opposition of the anti Russian measures.

To go back off football, they may want to reconsider what side they support, going by what the media is telling us is happening now.
I would love to see the world boycott China as they did with Russia. Honestly, we need to learn to live with out made in China shit, we wont, but it would really be a good step for society in general. I mean come on, do you need a new phone or tv or laptop every year. I am totally guilty, just ordered a bunch of made in china shit on Amazon. I would buy seed starting heating mats or grow lights if they were made in Canada and pay twice as much as I did for the Made in China shit, but you cant.

[Binder Dundat]

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 12:55:10 p.m. UTC-5, MH wrote:

> On 2022-03-04 01:16, ixion martin - GdBx wrote:
> > MH a couché sur son écran :
> >> apparently we need to be "liberated"
> >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/28/lauren-boebert-canada-liberated-ukraine/
> >>
> >
> > Classic american overstatement.
> > But what happend in Canada is worrisome.
> Which part? Certainly it was disquieting that a small minority engaged
> in an illegal protest that made no sense (most "lockdown" regulations
> are provincial, not federal; US had a cross border vaccine mandate too,
> so Canada on its won could have done nothing about that part), and was
> tainted by some extremists views and a naive assertion that they could
> reverse the result of a democratic election held only months ago, where
> most Canadians voted for progressive parties that espoused mandates. (By
> asking the GG to dissolve government - not within her power)
>
> But on the other hand, the occasion was largely peaceful, and eventually
> resolved. No barricades (other than snow), no setting cars on fire, no
> looting,.....

There were some barricades and allegedly someone tried to light a building on fire, though I think that was local people using the situation to their advantage. The protest was always going to be an excuse to have a party after two years of lockdown, which is what this was, I live here I saw it, that is what it was, people re-connecting, the people may not have been my social crowd, but like you said peaceful and fun loving. There may have been some local people and businesses inconvenienced, but the main problem was the image of the street the Parliament buildings are located was closed for Electronic dance music, hot tubs, sauna, street hockey, fireworks and of course, drinking and drugs. It was a big Canada Day party, with no police, run remarkably well in my opinion. They had food stalls and coffee and child day care and all of this done during what is the coldest time of year, any other 3-4 week period would not have been as cold.

>
> Or are you concerned about the short-lived invocation of our Emergencies
> act for the first time ?
> Your gouvernant people are more
> > mad than ours is France which is not a small feat.
> ?? Explain.

France protests a lot more than we do and the govt use strong arm tactics, which for the most part we dont, until we did.

[Werner Pichler]

So we agree that there are evil people who will literally walk over corpses to
achieve money and/or power, but you find it inconceivable that there are evil
people who will do the same thing because of their worldview?

A desire for historical revenge is a far more powerful motivation than any petty conspiracy
to earn more money . Europeans should know from their own history what it does to the
psyche of a country and its leaders to lose a war, like France after 1870 and Germany after 1918.
It brings out the absolute worst.

In Putin's mind he wants to undo the 'catastrophe' of the Soviet Union's collapse.
He hasn't been secretive about that either.


Ciao,
Werner

[Binder Dundat]

Admittedly, with Putin targeting civilians, it is looking more like a madman with no agenda outside of death and destruction, but I think there has to be more to the story. Why did he wait until now, would you not want to stop "westernization" early, before people get a taste of western decadence and it is harder to make them go back to waiting in line for a pound of butter or driving a Lada.

>
> A desire for historical revenge is a far more powerful motivation than any petty conspiracy
> to earn more money . Europeans should know from their own history what it does to the
> psyche of a country and its leaders to lose a war, like France after 1870 and Germany after 1918.
> It brings out the absolute worst.

Why target Nuclear Power plants, that not only hurts your victims, but the long (and short) term effects will hurt your side, this is where I can see evil fossil fuels companies somehow being behind this. You have a bunch of people who became rich from Gas, oil or coal and they see that revenue declining, all cars will be electric in 20 years, heat pumps and such will reduce the need for gas and oil heat, so they want to make as much as possible from their resources, before it ends.
If it is simply "historical revenge", I just have to wonder, why now. Is it due to seeing a weakness in the west, is Biden seen as being weak, is the world too woke and that is perceived as the west being weak.

>
> In Putin's mind he wants to undo the 'catastrophe' of the Soviet Union's collapse.
> He hasn't been secretive about that either.
>

That "catastrophe" has made them all rich though, without it they would not have all their yachts, all of London, all of those velvet pictures of Elvis and Dogs playing poker hanging in their mansions. You always have some people who will say things were better before -a lot of East Germans thought that things were better before re unification- but I doubt most Russians want to go back.
It is possible this is just a way for Putin and his cronies to become even more filthy rich and in control, by keeping the populous poor and afraid. If you can go back to Soviet era control of the population while having all the riches, without having to share them with the commoners, that scenario for war would make sense to me, it is just not sustainable in this day and age, nor is it necessary, you just have to follow the American model.



>
> Ciao,
> Werner

[Werner Pichler]

Well, why did the Serbians besiege Sarajevo, shelling the city and sniping at civilians for close to four years without actually trying to militarily
occupy the city? To a degree because of deterrence, but mostly to drive up the human cost as a bargaining chip and force the hand of their
opponents on the negotiating table.
To all appearances, Russia miscalculated badly. To create death and destruction looks more and more like the sole remaining way to 'win'.

Ciao,
Werner

[Binder Dundat]

Yup, it looks like death and destruction, how much death and destruction he can do is the question now. A Russian has to assassinate him soon.

I would probably be quite worried if i was living where you are.

[Michael Falkner]

It is now official.

Poland is auto-advanced to the pod final for the UEFA qualification to the World Cup.

Mike

[Ion Saliu]

On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 12:47:46 PM UTC+2, Ion Saliu wrote:

> BOYCOTT UEFA, FIFA, ALL SPORTS BODIES THAT HAVE EXCLUDED RUSSIA FROM THEIR COMPETITIONS!
>
> Ultra Axiomatics, Axiomatiques, Axiomatischen, Axiomáticos, Assiomatici et al.:
>
> Allow me to make a few generalized remarks.
>
> 1. Sports should always be FREE of politics. Otherwise, sport is just a “slave” of the ruling political bodies. To be sure, the most compelling example was the Soviet Union.
>
> USSR used sports as a blinding beam of propaganda. But USA has done the same thing, but in a far more sophisticated manner.
>
> 2. And this is my second point: SOPHISTICATION. The Americans are masters in PR (public relations). PR is so sophisticated that the US government is always right, no matter what.
>
> To those authors in this grandiose thread: The United States HAS NEVER INVADED ANY COUNTRY — EVER. The USA has always been authorized by the United Nations to intervene in some regions of the globe in order to establish peace. Go back to Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq I, Afghanistan, Iraq II — The United Nations almost implored USA to intervene and establish peace and order.
>
> On the other hand (the “left” one), USSR and the offspring Russia have never gone to the United Nations and ask for authorization to intervene militarily in some geopolitical places. Budapest 1956, Prague 1968, Poland 1980, Afghanistan 1979, Georgia 2008, Crimea 2014, Donbas 2022... All those interventions were strongly condemned by the West and, implicitly, the United Nations. Had USSR/Russia asked for authorization, the UNO would have rejected the requests.
>
> I strongly oppose the interference of politics in sports. I only think now of the Olympic Games. They would be of no interest to me. The Olympics would be ugly, non-competitive without Russia. I did hate the Soviets in sports, especially because they always back-handed the Romanian sports, gymnastics especially.
>
> Therefore, I would boycott all sports that excluded Russia from under their umbrellas. I plea with each and everyone in this grandiose community to do the same. First, boycott UEFA, boycott FIFA! Let them know your opinion in an email or two.
>
> I am not pro-Putin, pro-Trump, pro-Biden. Au contraire, I leveled serious criticism at them:
>
> • https://saliu.com/oppressors-turncoats.html
> • About-Face, Turncoats: Oppressors, Profiteers in Politics, Social Life
>
> • https://forums.saliu.com/armageddon-jesus-trump.html
> • Donald Trump, Armageddon: Jesus, Second Coming
>
> • https://www.facebook.com/Parpaluck/posts/10159682693029049
> • Let Donbas go to Russia to avoid a human far-larger disaster, including nuclear annihilation of Terra
>
> “Biden, Biden, bully bison,
> Putin, Putin, you are lootin'!”
>
>
> Ion Saliu
> Founder of Mathematical Axiomaticism
> • https://saliu.com/axiomatic.html
> • Axiomatic: An Essay on Axiomaticism, Undeniable Truthfulness as Highest Human Quality.

Mircea Lucescu, the head coach of Dynamo Kiev, opposes the exclusion of the Russian athletes from international competitions.

“In my opinion,” he says, “sport should unite people. The same as culture, they should have no link to politics.”

Even though Mircea Lucescu achieved outstanding success at Dynamo Kiev since he took over 3 seasons ago, the Kiev fans have always hated him. That’s because the Romanian head coach had achieved also great successes with Shakhtar Donetsk. Get it? “The Russian enemies in Donbas,” the Kiev Ukrainians cried out loud!

You can use Google translate for more:
https://www.gsp.ro/international/campionate/mircea-lucescu-sportivi-rusia-exclusi-657614.html

[Michael Falkner]

Putin apologism, I see.

Mike

[Blueshirt]

Michael Falkner wrote:
>
> Putin apologism, I see.

Whether it is or isn't is pretty much irrelevant now... we are past the
point of no return.

People can dislike Russia's exclusion from sporting competitions as
much as they like, but as every day passes Russia becomes more and more
of a pariah state.

The toothpaste cannot be put back in to the tube now...

[The Doctor]

In article <t0ofa9$p5r$1...@dont-email.me>,

Russia, China and I certain do not trust Iran nor the Vatican City.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
Yahweh, Queen & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b
There are times when it is the traitor giving the orders. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com