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Some thoughts about Suarez
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alka...@hotmail.com
Dec 15, 2013, 2:49:45 PM12/15/13
to
Sven already made a comment today about his insane strikerate this season, so this post is more about his character.
After all his shenanigans on the pitch, i.e. Ghana handball, Evra, bite-gate (times 2), he does possess some strong virtues. He is not full of himself for someone playing at his level (unlike players like Cantona, Henry, C-Ron, Gerrard), by all accounts he is a quiet family man and has never gotten in trouble in his private life (to my knowledge), on the pitch he never gives less than his utter best, he never pouts, and is always very supportive of his teammates.
The facts and intent in the Evra incident are still unclear, and the biting incidents, as animalistic as they seem, are mostly sensation...as pointed out here, regular flying studs-up tackles can be far more dangerous and vicious. The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline when Ghana missed the penalty.
To me his worst actions were his underhanded tricks to engineer a move away from Anfield. I don't fault him for wanting to leave, but he should have been direct with the club.
But overall I've softened my perspective on his character, influenced a little by his awesome goal-scoring no doubt :-)
After all his shenanigans on the pitch, i.e. Ghana handball, Evra, bite-gate (times 2), he does possess some strong virtues. He is not full of himself for someone playing at his level (unlike players like Cantona, Henry, C-Ron, Gerrard), by all accounts he is a quiet family man and has never gotten in trouble in his private life (to my knowledge), on the pitch he never gives less than his utter best, he never pouts, and is always very supportive of his teammates.
The facts and intent in the Evra incident are still unclear, and the biting incidents, as animalistic as they seem, are mostly sensation...as pointed out here, regular flying studs-up tackles can be far more dangerous and vicious. The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline when Ghana missed the penalty.
To me his worst actions were his underhanded tricks to engineer a move away from Anfield. I don't fault him for wanting to leave, but he should have been direct with the club.
But overall I've softened my perspective on his character, influenced a little by his awesome goal-scoring no doubt :-)
Futbolmetrix
Dec 15, 2013, 4:09:09 PM12/15/13
to
On 12/15/2013 2:49 PM, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything
> else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline
> when Ghana missed the penalty.
I am completely baffled by this statement. Why on earth should he have
>
> The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything
> else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline
> when Ghana missed the penalty.
not celebrated? There is a legitimate debate as to whether what he did
amounted to "cheating" (in my opinion, no); but once the play is over,
he had absolutely every right to celebrate the fact that his team was
still alive.
D
MH
Dec 15, 2013, 4:13:55 PM12/15/13
to
On 13-12-15 2:09 PM, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On 12/15/2013 2:49 PM, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>
>> The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything
>> else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline
>> when Ghana missed the penalty.
>
> I am completely baffled by this statement. Why on earth should he have
> not celebrated? There is a legitimate debate as to whether what he did
> amounted to "cheating" (in my opinion, no);
In my opinion is was cheating - but so is every other deliberate foul.
> On 12/15/2013 2:49 PM, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>
>> The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything
>> else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline
>> when Ghana missed the penalty.
>
> I am completely baffled by this statement. Why on earth should he have
> not celebrated? There is a legitimate debate as to whether what he did
> amounted to "cheating" (in my opinion, no);
(i.e. the player is perfectly aware of the rules, but breaks them for
advantage to his team - shirt pulling is an example).
but once the play is over,
> he had absolutely every right to celebrate the fact that his team was
> still alive.
>
>
> D
Sven Mischkies
Dec 15, 2013, 5:18:40 PM12/15/13
to
cheating. They are sort of accepted after all, so why make an exception
for Suarez tactical foul?
Ciao,
SM
--
Avoid Santander, the magic bank that makes money disappear.
El Kot
Dec 15, 2013, 5:32:45 PM12/15/13
to
MH wrote:
> On 13-12-15 2:09 PM, Futbolmetrix wrote:
>> On 12/15/2013 2:49 PM, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything
>>> else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline
>>> when Ghana missed the penalty.
>>
>> I am completely baffled by this statement. Why on earth should he have
>> not celebrated? There is a legitimate debate as to whether what he did
>> amounted to "cheating" (in my opinion, no);
>
> In my opinion is was cheating - but so is every other deliberate foul.
> (i.e. the player is perfectly aware of the rules, but breaks them for
> advantage to his team - shirt pulling is an example).
I'm with FX on this one. IMO, cheating is when one tries to deceive the ref.
> On 13-12-15 2:09 PM, Futbolmetrix wrote:
>> On 12/15/2013 2:49 PM, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything
>>> else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline
>>> when Ghana missed the penalty.
>>
>> I am completely baffled by this statement. Why on earth should he have
>> not celebrated? There is a legitimate debate as to whether what he did
>> amounted to "cheating" (in my opinion, no);
>
> In my opinion is was cheating - but so is every other deliberate foul.
> (i.e. the player is perfectly aware of the rules, but breaks them for
> advantage to his team - shirt pulling is an example).
Diving, for ex, is cheating. Openly breaking the rules with no attempt to
deceive, is not. So I don't agree that "every other deliberate foul" is cheating
- it's only the ones that the perpetrator hopes will go unnoticed.
> but once the play is over,
>> he had absolutely every right to celebrate the fact that his team was
>> still alive.
>
> 100 % agree here.
--
No, no, you can't e-mail me with the nono.
MH
Dec 15, 2013, 5:54:33 PM12/15/13
to
On 13-12-15 3:32 PM, El Kot wrote:
> MH wrote:
>> On 13-12-15 2:09 PM, Futbolmetrix wrote:
>>> On 12/15/2013 2:49 PM, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything
>>>> else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline
>>>> when Ghana missed the penalty.
>>>
>>> I am completely baffled by this statement. Why on earth should he have
>>> not celebrated? There is a legitimate debate as to whether what he did
>>> amounted to "cheating" (in my opinion, no);
>>
>> In my opinion is was cheating - but so is every other deliberate foul.
>> (i.e. the player is perfectly aware of the rules, but breaks them for
>> advantage to his team - shirt pulling is an example).
>
> I'm with FX on this one. IMO, cheating is when one tries to deceive
> the ref. Diving, for ex, is cheating. Openly breaking the rules with no
> attempt to deceive, is not. So I don't agree that "every other
> deliberate foul" is cheating - it's only the ones that the perpetrator
> hopes will go unnoticed.
Hmm -- hard to quantify this one. If I am subtly pulling your shirt at a
> MH wrote:
>> On 13-12-15 2:09 PM, Futbolmetrix wrote:
>>> On 12/15/2013 2:49 PM, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything
>>>> else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline
>>>> when Ghana missed the penalty.
>>>
>>> I am completely baffled by this statement. Why on earth should he have
>>> not celebrated? There is a legitimate debate as to whether what he did
>>> amounted to "cheating" (in my opinion, no);
>>
>> In my opinion is was cheating - but so is every other deliberate foul.
>> (i.e. the player is perfectly aware of the rules, but breaks them for
>> advantage to his team - shirt pulling is an example).
>
> I'm with FX on this one. IMO, cheating is when one tries to deceive
> the ref. Diving, for ex, is cheating. Openly breaking the rules with no
> attempt to deceive, is not. So I don't agree that "every other
> deliberate foul" is cheating - it's only the ones that the perpetrator
> hopes will go unnoticed.
corner, I am usually hoping that it goes unnoticed. When Henry handled
twice leading up to France's goal against Ireland, I bet he was hoping
(but probably not expecting) it to go un-noticed.
So I think it is easier just to recognize that flouting the rules
knowingly for advantage is cheating, and is not particularly
reprehensible - it is normal to push the limits and see what you can get
away with. It is not very sportsmanlike, but it is inevitable.
Simulation is another form of cheating, a worse form, in my view.
Binder Dundat
Dec 15, 2013, 8:26:06 PM12/15/13
to
You get the feeling, Suarez could fly back from a WC qualifier against
Argentina, arrive at the airport, with tabloid headlines claiming he is
a cannibalistic slave owner. Jump on his bicycle, pedal his bike to the
game, while a group of women and children threw rocks and bottles at him
calling him a child molester for the whole ride. Get to the stadium,
lace up his boots, endure 90 minutes of non stop abuse from the local
crowd and he would still score three goals.
He doesn't seem to be fazed by anything? Keeping your cool is very
important as a striker, the ability to take that extra second to control
and place your shot, is what makes him so good.
Argentina, arrive at the airport, with tabloid headlines claiming he is
a cannibalistic slave owner. Jump on his bicycle, pedal his bike to the
game, while a group of women and children threw rocks and bottles at him
calling him a child molester for the whole ride. Get to the stadium,
lace up his boots, endure 90 minutes of non stop abuse from the local
crowd and he would still score three goals.
He doesn't seem to be fazed by anything? Keeping your cool is very
important as a striker, the ability to take that extra second to control
and place your shot, is what makes him so good.
alka...@hotmail.com
Dec 15, 2013, 9:19:13 PM12/15/13
to
Abubakr
Dec 16, 2013, 2:28:58 AM12/16/13
to
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 06:49:45 +1100, <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sven already made a comment today about his insane strikerate this
> season, so this post is more about his character.
>
> After all his shenanigans on the pitch, i.e. Ghana handball,
He took one for the team. It's called a professional foul for a reason.
> Sven already made a comment today about his insane strikerate this
> season, so this post is more about his character.
>
> After all his shenanigans on the pitch, i.e. Ghana handball,
Sven Mischkies
Dec 16, 2013, 3:25:14 AM12/16/13
to
<alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Whether one defines a deliberate goalline handball as cheating or not,
there is no question that it's unsportsmanlike conduct that robbed Ghana
of a clear goal. Now one can defend Suarez and say that he did what a
lot of players would have done in such a high stakes game, which is
fine. But then celebrating the miss so visibly is sort of rubbing salt
in Ghana's wounds. Kind of like, it's one thing to act like a douchebag,
it's quite another to be proud of being a douchebag.
What am I missing here? Did he run to Ghana's players and taunted them?
> Whether one defines a deliberate goalline handball as cheating or not,
there is no question that it's unsportsmanlike conduct that robbed Ghana
of a clear goal. Now one can defend Suarez and say that he did what a
lot of players would have done in such a high stakes game, which is
fine. But then celebrating the miss so visibly is sort of rubbing salt
in Ghana's wounds. Kind of like, it's one thing to act like a douchebag,
it's quite another to be proud of being a douchebag.
Dance in front of them and made the L gesture? Or did he just express
his joy at the success of his team?
Bruce D. Scott
Dec 16, 2013, 6:25:51 AM12/16/13
to
but it was not immoral. It's only because Ghana were "everybody's
darling" that the reaction is what it was.
Oh BTW, the free kick by Ghana was preceded by the most obvious of dives...
--
ciao,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
Werner Pichler
Dec 16, 2013, 6:34:16 AM12/16/13
to
Ciao,
Werner
Clément
Dec 16, 2013, 9:20:13 AM12/16/13
to
"Futbolmetrix" escreveu:
> Why on earth should he have not celebrated? There is a legitimate debate
> as to whether what he did amounted to "cheating" (in my opinion, no);
I find it to be an interesting semantic debate, but with little importance.
Whether "cheating" means "any employment of illicit means intending to gain
an advantage" or whether it is only cheating when you try to conceal it, I'd
personally be OK with any definition.
A more interesting debate to me is whether a PK and a red is enough
punishment. I could see arguments both ways.
I remember suggesting at the time that a goal should be awarded in such
situations (the ball was definitely going to cross the line, if not for the
foul). It would be akin to a basket being awarded when the ball is
descending. Then someone (IIRC it was you) argued that such a rule could
open a big can of worms, potentially leading to a whole new set of dubious
decision scenarios. Which is a fair counterargument IMO, and I'm still not
convinced either way.
> but once the play is over, he had absolutely every right to celebrate the
> fact that his team was still alive.
Of couse! The rules had been correctly applied: Su�rez was sent off, the
other team had been given its chance to win the game and wasted it. Why
shouldn't he celebrate?
Wrongful refereeing decisions annoy me a lot. But I fail to see what was
wrong with a scenario in which all the rules were enforced.
In fact, I happen to think that one of the most epic World Cup episodes of
all time. Worthy to be included in any World Cup Greatest Moments piece
produced from 2010 on.
Abra�o,
Luiz Mello
> On 12/15/2013 2:49 PM, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything
>> else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline
>> when Ghana missed the penalty.
>
> I am completely baffled by this statement.
Me too. [Sorry, Alka... =)]
>> The Ghana incident showed his will to win more than anything
>> else, though he shouldn't have celebrated on the sideline
>> when Ghana missed the penalty.
>
> I am completely baffled by this statement.
> Why on earth should he have not celebrated? There is a legitimate debate
> as to whether what he did amounted to "cheating" (in my opinion, no);
Whether "cheating" means "any employment of illicit means intending to gain
an advantage" or whether it is only cheating when you try to conceal it, I'd
personally be OK with any definition.
A more interesting debate to me is whether a PK and a red is enough
punishment. I could see arguments both ways.
I remember suggesting at the time that a goal should be awarded in such
situations (the ball was definitely going to cross the line, if not for the
foul). It would be akin to a basket being awarded when the ball is
descending. Then someone (IIRC it was you) argued that such a rule could
open a big can of worms, potentially leading to a whole new set of dubious
decision scenarios. Which is a fair counterargument IMO, and I'm still not
convinced either way.
> but once the play is over, he had absolutely every right to celebrate the
> fact that his team was still alive.
other team had been given its chance to win the game and wasted it. Why
shouldn't he celebrate?
Wrongful refereeing decisions annoy me a lot. But I fail to see what was
wrong with a scenario in which all the rules were enforced.
In fact, I happen to think that one of the most epic World Cup episodes of
all time. Worthy to be included in any World Cup Greatest Moments piece
produced from 2010 on.
Abra�o,
Luiz Mello
Clément
Dec 16, 2013, 9:27:17 AM12/16/13
to
"Werner Pichler" escreveu:
Some have pointed out at the time that Ghana had benefitted from a dubious
handball decision (though in another match) to advance from the group stage.
So there you go.
Abra�o,
Luiz Mello
> On Monday, December 16, 2013 12:25:51 PM UTC+1, Bruce D. Scott wrote:
>> Oh BTW, the free kick by Ghana was preceded by the most obvious of
>> dives...
>
> And the whole situation leading to the handball had been off-side.
Haters don't like facts. [I recall the dive, but not the offside.]
>> Oh BTW, the free kick by Ghana was preceded by the most obvious of
>> dives...
>
> And the whole situation leading to the handball had been off-side.
Some have pointed out at the time that Ghana had benefitted from a dubious
handball decision (though in another match) to advance from the group stage.
So there you go.
Abra�o,
Luiz Mello
Werner Pichler
Dec 16, 2013, 8:32:52 AM12/16/13
to
On Monday, December 16, 2013 2:26:54 PM UTC+1, Clément wrote:
> "Werner Pichler" escreveu:
>
> > On Monday, December 16, 2013 12:25:51 PM UTC+1, Bruce D. Scott wrote:
>
> >> Oh BTW, the free kick by Ghana was preceded by the most obvious of
> >> dives...
> >
> > And the whole situation leading to the handball had been off-side.
>
> Haters don't like facts. [I recall the dive, but not the offside.]
It's one of those calls that are really really hard to make, but according to
> "Werner Pichler" escreveu:
>
> > On Monday, December 16, 2013 12:25:51 PM UTC+1, Bruce D. Scott wrote:
>
> >> Oh BTW, the free kick by Ghana was preceded by the most obvious of
> >> dives...
> >
> > And the whole situation leading to the handball had been off-side.
>
> Haters don't like facts. [I recall the dive, but not the offside.]
the rules it's quite obvious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiuZalalZio
Ciao,
Werner
>
> Some have pointed out at the time that Ghana had benefitted from a dubious
> handball decision (though in another match) to advance from the group stage.
>
> So there you go.
>
> Luiz Mello
Clément
Dec 16, 2013, 9:41:02 AM12/16/13
to
"Werner Pichler" escreveu:
Yes, not an easy call, mostly to the speed of play, I guess. The offside
player's position doesn't seem that hard to spot, assuming the assistant was
correctly positioned.
Abra�o,
Luiz Mello
> It's one of those calls that are really really hard to make, but according
> to
> the rules it's quite obvious.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiuZalalZio
I remember it now, thanks.
> to
> the rules it's quite obvious.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiuZalalZio
Yes, not an easy call, mostly to the speed of play, I guess. The offside
player's position doesn't seem that hard to spot, assuming the assistant was
correctly positioned.
Abra�o,
Luiz Mello
Futbolmetrix
Dec 16, 2013, 2:10:24 PM12/16/13
to
the line, using his feet.
D
Futbolmetrix
Dec 16, 2013, 2:31:16 PM12/16/13
to
On 12/15/2013 5:32 PM, El Kot wrote:
>>
>> In my opinion is was cheating - but so is every other deliberate foul.
>> (i.e. the player is perfectly aware of the rules, but breaks them for
>> advantage to his team - shirt pulling is an example).
>
> I'm with FX on this one. IMO, cheating is when one tries to deceive
> the ref. Diving, for ex, is cheating. Openly breaking the rules with no
> attempt to deceive, is not. So I don't agree that "every other
> deliberate foul" is cheating - it's only the ones that the perpetrator
> hopes will go unnoticed.
And I'm with MH on this one. You can't really say whether something was
>>
>> In my opinion is was cheating - but so is every other deliberate foul.
>> (i.e. the player is perfectly aware of the rules, but breaks them for
>> advantage to his team - shirt pulling is an example).
>
> I'm with FX on this one. IMO, cheating is when one tries to deceive
> the ref. Diving, for ex, is cheating. Openly breaking the rules with no
> attempt to deceive, is not. So I don't agree that "every other
> deliberate foul" is cheating - it's only the ones that the perpetrator
> hopes will go unnoticed.
done with an intent to deceive or not, it's not black or white. Every
deliberate infringement of the rules is, to some extent, done with the
intent to deceive. It's just that in some instances the perpetrator has
a high expected probability that his deception will go unnoticed (a
crafty Inzaghi dive, for example); other times, it's almost certain that
it will be detected (Suarez's handball). Where do you draw the line for
what is cheating and what is not?
D
mehdi
Dec 16, 2013, 2:37:52 PM12/16/13
to
On 16/12/2013 19:31, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> And I'm with MH on this one. You can't really say whether something was
> done with an intent to deceive or not, it's not black or white. Every
> deliberate infringement of the rules is, to some extent, done with the
> intent to deceive. It's just that in some instances the perpetrator has
> a high expected probability that his deception will go unnoticed (a
> crafty Inzaghi dive, for example); other times, it's almost certain that
> it will be detected (Suarez's handball). Where do you draw the line for
> what is cheating and what is not?
>
> D
Why are we still talking about this 3 years later?
> And I'm with MH on this one. You can't really say whether something was
> done with an intent to deceive or not, it's not black or white. Every
> deliberate infringement of the rules is, to some extent, done with the
> intent to deceive. It's just that in some instances the perpetrator has
> a high expected probability that his deception will go unnoticed (a
> crafty Inzaghi dive, for example); other times, it's almost certain that
> it will be detected (Suarez's handball). Where do you draw the line for
> what is cheating and what is not?
>
> D
--
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Chagney Hunt
Dec 16, 2013, 3:10:11 PM12/16/13
to
I'll keep up with the top-quoting trend in this thread
Wenger on Suarez:
"I think that every defender in England hates playing against him," he
said on Telefoot.
"He has a strong, provocative personality. From the information I
gathered on him it appears that on a day-to-day level he is really easy
to work with.
"Also that he's respectful, he loves training, he's an angel. He turns
into a demon when he's on the pitch.
"We all dream about having players like that."
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9076161/Wenger-Keen
Wenger on Suarez:
"I think that every defender in England hates playing against him," he
said on Telefoot.
"He has a strong, provocative personality. From the information I
gathered on him it appears that on a day-to-day level he is really easy
to work with.
"Also that he's respectful, he loves training, he's an angel. He turns
into a demon when he's on the pitch.
"We all dream about having players like that."
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9076161/Wenger-Keen
Insane Ranter
Dec 16, 2013, 5:52:00 PM12/16/13
to
On Monday, December 16, 2013 2:10:24 PM UTC-5, Futbolmetrix wrote:
Why give credit for just standing there and having the ball reflect off you? I think the whole... "Who me? What did I do?" reaction from Suarez. Then the "Boo Hoo. My career is ruined and over" reaction walking down the tunnel to the what looks like a flip the switch and go from that to jumping for joy like nothing happened and the interpretation that he's happy now he got away with things.
Jesper Lauridsen
Dec 16, 2013, 5:53:05 PM12/16/13
to
On 2013-12-16, Binder Dundat <dun...@nogmail.com> wrote:
> You get the feeling, Suarez could fly back from a WC qualifier against
> Argentina, arrive at the airport, with tabloid headlines claiming he is
> a cannibalistic slave owner. Jump on his bicycle, pedal his bike to the
> game, while a group of women and children threw rocks and bottles at him
> calling him a child molester for the whole ride. Get to the stadium,
> lace up his boots, endure 90 minutes of non stop abuse from the local
> crowd and he would still score three goals.
What not to do..
> You get the feeling, Suarez could fly back from a WC qualifier against
> Argentina, arrive at the airport, with tabloid headlines claiming he is
> a cannibalistic slave owner. Jump on his bicycle, pedal his bike to the
> game, while a group of women and children threw rocks and bottles at him
> calling him a child molester for the whole ride. Get to the stadium,
> lace up his boots, endure 90 minutes of non stop abuse from the local
> crowd and he would still score three goals.
http://i.imgur.com/bPFM2Kb.jpg
https://vine.co/v/h20EOBVpPmr
(video version)
Werner Pichler
Dec 16, 2013, 7:26:27 PM12/16/13
to
https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=rec.sport.soccer/32D3vr4NjcU/KY6-FTQd70QJ
Ciao,
Werner
>
>
>
> D
Futbolmetrix
Dec 16, 2013, 8:56:05 PM12/16/13
to
On 12/16/2013 7:26 PM, Werner Pichler wrote:
>
> Out of absolutely nowhere, I very dimly remembered something :)
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=rec.sport.soccer/32D3vr4NjcU/KY6-FTQd70QJ
>
[What Vieri should have done in the Euro2004 match versus Sweden]
>
> Out of absolutely nowhere, I very dimly remembered something :)
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=rec.sport.soccer/32D3vr4NjcU/KY6-FTQd70QJ
>
"He should have punched it out. He gets the red card and misses the next
game, but leaves Buffon with an approximately 25% chance of saving the day."
I should have added: "That also would have given Italy the extra
advantage of playing *without* Vieri in the decisive match versus
Bulgaria" (not that it would have mattered, given the Scandinavian
biscotto...)
Werner Pichler
Dec 17, 2013, 3:58:00 AM12/17/13
to
On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 2:56:05 AM UTC+1, Futbolmetrix wrote:
> On 12/16/2013 7:26 PM, Werner Pichler wrote:
>
> > Out of absolutely nowhere, I very dimly remembered something :)
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=rec.sport.soccer/32D3vr4NjcU/KY6-FTQd70QJ
> >
>
> [What Vieri should have done in the Euro2004 match versus Sweden]
>
> "He should have punched it out. He gets the red card and misses the next
> game, but leaves Buffon with an approximately 25% chance of saving the day."
>
The thing is, wíth his form in the tournament Vieri would have missed it!
> On 12/16/2013 7:26 PM, Werner Pichler wrote:
>
> > Out of absolutely nowhere, I very dimly remembered something :)
> >
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=rec.sport.soccer/32D3vr4NjcU/KY6-FTQd70QJ
> >
>
> [What Vieri should have done in the Euro2004 match versus Sweden]
>
> "He should have punched it out. He gets the red card and misses the next
> game, but leaves Buffon with an approximately 25% chance of saving the day."
>
I didn't want to show you up or anything, I just found it interesting to
compare :) You didn't change your stance, after all.
After that incident against Ghana I was somebody who always used to defend
Suárez against undeserved vilification, but that became difficult after the
number of 'incidents' he was involved in grew bigger and bigger...
I'm sure that among a certain group of armchair fans, who mostly watch the
World Cup and not much else, Suárez will forever remain the villain.
Ciao,
Werner
Google Beta User
Dec 20, 2013, 9:51:43 AM12/20/13
to
On Sunday, December 15, 2013 2:49:45 PM UTC-5, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> But overall I've softened my perspective on his character, influenced a little by his awesome goal-scoring no doubt :-)
At least we can now confirm that when Suarez leaves for Real Madrid, PSG or City, it'll HAVE TO BE a world record fee plus their best young striker prospect, or STFU.
> But overall I've softened my perspective on his character, influenced a little by his awesome goal-scoring no doubt :-)
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/20/luis-suarez-signs-long-term-liverpool-deal
Sven Mischkies
Dec 20, 2013, 11:26:32 AM12/20/13
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The argument of Fenway "We are committed to working hard to keep our
best players" and the reported salary (�200kpw) are the opposite of how
Arsenal used to treat this kind of matter, no?
alka...@hotmail.com
Dec 20, 2013, 11:32:02 AM12/20/13
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On Monday, December 16, 2013 3:25:14 AM UTC-5, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Whether one defines a deliberate goalline handball as cheating or not,
>
> there is no question that it's unsportsmanlike conduct that robbed Ghana
>
> of a clear goal. Now one can defend Suarez and say that he did what a
>
> lot of players would have done in such a high stakes game, which is
>
> fine. But then celebrating the miss so visibly is sort of rubbing salt
>
> in Ghana's wounds. Kind of like, it's one thing to act like a douchebag,
>
> it's quite another to be proud of being a douchebag.
>
>
>
>
>
> What am I missing here? Did he run to Ghana's players and taunted them?
>
> Dance in front of them and made the L gesture?
No, but he was not shy in his celebrations. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed to be in bad taste after deliberate "cheating".
> <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Whether one defines a deliberate goalline handball as cheating or not,
>
> there is no question that it's unsportsmanlike conduct that robbed Ghana
>
> of a clear goal. Now one can defend Suarez and say that he did what a
>
> lot of players would have done in such a high stakes game, which is
>
> fine. But then celebrating the miss so visibly is sort of rubbing salt
>
> in Ghana's wounds. Kind of like, it's one thing to act like a douchebag,
>
> it's quite another to be proud of being a douchebag.
>
>
>
>
>
> What am I missing here? Did he run to Ghana's players and taunted them?
>
> Dance in front of them and made the L gesture?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfSrXh-MhP4
Sven Mischkies
Dec 20, 2013, 1:15:57 PM12/20/13
to
at the saved penalty. There will have been many, many Uruguayans with
the same reaction.
Plus, of course, as we have learned penalty and red card were bogus
calls - the only player who "cheated" in the whole sequence was the
offside guy.
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