Trivia: shiny new national teams
milivella
(final tournament) to the next one?
Rules:
- Let's start from 1950.
- Two consecutive WCs!
Example:
Italy 1986->1990 = 7
Bergomi
Vierchowod
Ancelotti
De Napoli
Vialli
Serena
Zenga
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FIFA_World_Cup_squads#Italy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_FIFA_World_Cup_squads#Italy
I don't know what the correct answer is, so in principle you could win
with a 6...
--
Cheers
milivella
The Scrutineer
Well I don't know the answer, but I can tell you it is not Australia
2006-2010, and ! can even look into the future, it's not Australia 2010-2014
either.
It's not Brazil 1998-2002 is it?
Roberto Carlos
Cafu
Ronaldo
Rivaldo
Dida
Denilson
Six I think?
Futbolmetrix
news:VYpnp.749$aH5...@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
>
> It's not Brazil 1998-2002 is it?
> Roberto Carlos
> Cafu
> Ronaldo
> Rivaldo
> Dida
> Denilson
>
Italy 1990-1994 and 1994-1998 also has six:
90-94: Pagliuca, Baresi, Madini, Berti, Donadoni, R. Baggio
94-98: Pagliuca, Maldini, Costacurta, D. Baggio, Albertini, R. Baggio
More recent versions of Italy must have more overlap. 1974-1978 could be a
good candidate, though.
D
Futbolmetrix
"Futbolmetrix" <futbol...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:inlabt$jmk$1...@dont-email.me...
Indeed, only 4: Zoff, Benetti, Causio, Pulici
The Scrutineer
>
> 90-94: Pagliuca, Baresi, Madini, Berti, Donadoni, R. Baggio
> 94-98: Pagliuca, Maldini, Costacurta, D. Baggio, Albertini, R. Baggio
>
> More recent versions of Italy must have more overlap. 1974-1978 could be a
> good candidate, though.
>
> Indeed, only 4: Zoff, Benetti, Causio, Pulici
Tried Germany 1998-2002 and they have six as well, four might be the one, it
will surely be hard to beat, the players by the way...
Kahn
Ziege
Hamann
Lehmann
Jeremies
Bierhodd
I think...
milivella
> "Futbolmetrix" <futbolmet...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Actually 5: you forgot Bellugi. Nice submission, anyway.
--
Cheers
milivella
The Scrutineer
Ayala
Crespo
Aimar
Sorin
Gots me a four!!!
Joachim Parsch
milivella schrieb:
>
> Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
> (final tournament) to the next one?
>
> Rules:
> - Let's start from 1950.
> - Two consecutive WCs!
First thought Germany 74-78, because most of the title winning team
retired from the national team in between, but there were in fact
7 players left, mostly from the bench of 74.
But Germany 78-82 has four:
Kaltz, H. M�ller, Fischer, Rummenigge (no goalie left, interestingly)
Coaches should change in between probably. So Germany 62-66 deserves a
look:
Tilkowski, Schnellinger, Schulz, Haller, Seeler, Br�lls
Of, course, we should also find out, when most players were remaining.
Maybe Germany 2006-2010 - but no, there were also just 7 players left,
although it felt like almost the whole squad was the same. The difference
to 74-78 is, that from 06-10 the remaining players were the core of
the team (Lahm, Schwstgr, Mertesacker, Klose, Podolski, Friedrich, Jansen)
No goalies left and Ballack missing gives this amazingly low number.
For most players remaining I wager 10 for Germany 2002-2006:
Kahn, Lehmann, Metzelder, Ballack, Frings, Kehl, Schneider,
Klose, Neuville, Asamoah
And then there were these players called G�nter Her(r)mann:
One of them was nominated in 62, to play 0 matches. The other
was nominated in 90, to play 0 matches. Not a good name for
World Championships, it seems.
Joachim
milivella
> milivella schrieb:
>
>
>
> > Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
> > (final tournament) to the next one?
>
> > Rules:
> > - Let's start from 1950.
> > - Two consecutive WCs!
>
> First thought Germany 74-78, because most of the title winning team
> retired from the national team in between
Germans are wise. (compare with Italy 82-86 and 06-10!)
> but there were in fact
> 7 players left, mostly from the bench of 74.
>
> But Germany 78-82 has four:
> Kaltz, H. M ller, Fischer, Rummenigge (no goalie left, interestingly)
Nice finding! You're tied first.
> Of, course, we should also find out, when most players were remaining.
Of course!
> Maybe Germany 2006-2010 - but no, there were also just 7 players left,
> although it felt like almost the whole squad was the same. The difference
> to 74-78 is, that from 06-10 the remaining players were the core of
> the team (Lahm, Schwstgr, Mertesacker, Klose, Podolski, Friedrich, Jansen)
> No goalies left and Ballack missing gives this amazingly low number.
Interesting analysis.
> For most players remaining I wager 10 for Germany 2002-2006:
> Kahn, Lehmann, Metzelder, Ballack, Frings, Kehl, Schneider,
> Klose, Neuville, Asamoah
Brazil 58-62 should be 14:
Carlos José Castilho
Didi
Djalma Santos
Garrincha
Gilmar
Hilderaldo Bellini
Mário Zagallo
Mauro Ramos
Nílton Santos
Pelé
Pepe
Vavá
Zito
Zózimo
Who will beat me?
> And then there were these players called G nter Her(r)mann:
> One of them was nominated in 62, to play 0 matches. The other
> was nominated in 90, to play 0 matches. Not a good name for
> World Championships, it seems.
If he was e.g. 16 in 1962 and 44 in 1990 you can't blame him!
--
Cheers
milivella
milivella
> Brazil 58-62 should be 14:
> Carlos José Castilho
> Didi
> Djalma Santos
> Garrincha
> Gilmar
> Hilderaldo Bellini
> Mário Zagallo
> Mauro Ramos
> Nílton Santos
> Pelé
> Pepe
> Vavá
> Zito
> Zózimo
More, Jose "Mazzola" Altafini played in Brazil 58 and Italy 62...
--
Cheers
milivella
The Scrutineer
Damn, had Australia down for 14...
2006-2010
Schwarzer
Neill
Moore
Cahill
Culina
Beauchamp
Emerton
Wilkshire
Kennedy
Kewell
Chipperfield
Grella
Milligan
Bresciano
Abubakr
says...
>
> milivella schrieb:
> >
> > Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
> > (final tournament) to the next one?
> >
> > Rules:
> > - Let's start from 1950.
> > - Two consecutive WCs!
>
> First thought Germany 74-78, because most of the title winning team
> retired from the national team in between, but there were in fact
> 7 players left, mostly from the bench of 74.
>
> But Germany 78-82 has four:
France '10-14?
Futbolmetrix
"milivella" <mili...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8ffbf088-300a-459b...@r6g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
> (final tournament) to the next one?
>
> Rules:
> - Let's start from 1950.
Stupid rules! I was about to win with multiple entries for the 1938-1950
world cups!
More seriously, Italy 1934-1938 had only four: Meazza, Ferrari, Masetti and
Monzeglio.
D
milivella
> "milivella" <milive...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8ffbf088-300a-459b...@r6g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
> > (final tournament) to the next one?
>
> > Rules:
> > - Let's start from 1950.
>
> Stupid rules! I was about to win with multiple entries for the 1938-1950
> world cups!
Is there anybody who played both?
> More seriously, Italy 1934-1938 had only four: Meazza, Ferrari, Masetti and
> Monzeglio.
Italy wins, then...
...keeps few players -> wins again
...keeps everyone -> loses ridiculously
---
Another entry for the "shiny old" team. France 98-02, 14 again:
Alain Boghossian
Bixente Lizarazu
Christophe Dugarry
David Trezeguet
Emmanuel Petit
Fabien Barthez
Frank Leboeuf
Lilian Thuram
Marcel Desailly
Patrick Vieira
Thierry Henry
Vincent Candela
Youri Djorkaeff
Zinedine Zidane
Is it so hard to find a 15?
--
Cheers
milivella
Futbolmetrix
>
> Italy wins, then...
> ...keeps few players -> wins again
> ...keeps everyone -> loses ridiculously
Actually, Italy 06-10 only had 9, and I suspect that Italy 82-86 also didn't
have that many (just checked, 10). Italy 1978-82 could be a stronger
candidate for the "old"...nope, only 11
> Another entry for the "shiny old" team. France 98-02, 14 again:
>
> Alain Boghossian
> Bixente Lizarazu
> Christophe Dugarry
> David Trezeguet
> Emmanuel Petit
> Fabien Barthez
> Frank Leboeuf
> Lilian Thuram
> Marcel Desailly
> Patrick Vieira
> Thierry Henry
> Vincent Candela
> Youri Djorkaeff
> Zinedine Zidane
I would have guessed that too. Probably the best candidate for "shiny old"
is a small country blessed with a "golden generation." How about Northern
Ireland 1982-86?
D
milivella
> Futbolmetrix:
>
> > Stupid rules! I was about to win with multiple entries for the 1938-1950
> > world cups!
>
> Is there anybody who played both?
I answer to myself. Two guys played in both WCs (Excel tells,
Wikipedia confirms):
Alfred Bickel, Switzerland (born 1918)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Bickel
Erik Nilsson, Sweden (born 1916)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Nilsson
--
Cheers
milivella
milivella
> "milivella" <milive...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b7de54dc-2b49-41c1...@r6g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Italy wins, then...
> > ...keeps few players -> wins again
> > ...keeps everyone -> loses ridiculously
>
> Actually, Italy 06-10 only had 9, and I suspect that Italy 82-86 also didn't
> have that many (just checked, 10).
OK, not "everyone". Still 125%-150% more than Italy 34-38, though.
(then we should check how many starters were the same, of course)
> Probably the best candidate for "shiny old"
> is a small country blessed with a "golden generation."
Agreed.
> How about Northern
> Ireland 1982-86?
Seemingly "just" 11:
Billy Hamilton
David McCreery
Gerry Armstrong
Jim Platt
Jimmy Nicholl
John McClelland
John O'Neill
Mal Donaghy
Norman Whiteside
Pat Jennings
Sammy McIlroy
--
Cheers
milivella
Futbolmetrix
Joachim Parsch:
>
> > But Germany 78-82 has four:
> > Kaltz, H. M ller, Fischer, Rummenigge (no goalie left, interestingly)
> Nice finding! You're tied first.
Spain 1982-86 , 4: Camacho, Gordillo, Maceda and Urruti.
Brazil 1954-1958, 4: Castilh, Djalma Santos, Nilton Santos, Didi
But can we find a 3?
D
Abubakr
Yes, we can. Argentina 74-78: Fillol, Houseman, Kempes.
Futbolmetrix
news:MPG.280995d35...@nntp.aioe.org...
>>
>> But can we find a 3?
>
> Yes, we can. Argentina 74-78: Fillol, Houseman, Kempes.
Damn it, you beat me to it. I was just about to post that.
D
Abubakr
milivella
> In article <inmp5v$ci...@dont-email.me>, futbolmet...@yahoo.com says...
>
> > But can we find a 3?
>
> Yes, we can. Argentina 74-78: Fillol, Houseman, Kempes.
Congratulations! Now we're looking for a 2?
--
Cheers
milivella
Werner Pichler
> "milivella" <milive...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Argentina 1930 / Argentina 1934: 0
Ciao,
Werner
> D
Werner Pichler
> "Abubakr" <deltara...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Another 3:
England 54-58: Wright, Finney, Haynes
Could be construed as a 2 as Haynes was named into
the squad but stayed at home in England during the
whole 1954 tournament.
Ciao,
Werner
Jesper Lauridsen
wrote:
>I would have guessed that too. Probably the best candidate for "shiny old"
>is a small country blessed with a "golden generation." How about Northern
>Ireland 1982-86?
That should make Denmark 1998-2002 an option, but that's only a
pedestrian 7:
Ebbe Sand
Jan Heintze
Martin Jørgensen
Peter Kjær
René Henriksen
Stig Tøfting
Thomas Helveg
Martin Jørgensen also played in 2010.
The 1998 team was quite old and EC 2000 was a disaster, so 7 is actually a
lot.
milivella
> Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
> (final tournament) to the next one?
And the one that retained most? Last 24 hours to beat Abubakr, Werner,
Scrutineer and me:
3 Argentina 74-78 Abubakr
3 England 54-58 Werner Pichler
4 Argentina 02-06 The Scrutineer
4 Brazil 54-58 Futbolmetrix
4 Spain 82-86 Futbolmetrix
4 W.Germany 78-82 Joachim Parsch
5 Italy 74-78 Futbolmetrix
6 Brazil 98-02 The Scrutineer
6 Germany 98-02 The Scrutineer
6 Italy 90-94 Futbolmetrix
6 Italy 94-98 Futbolmetrix
6 W.Germany 62-66 Joachim Parsch
7 Denmark 98-02 Jesper Lauridsen
7 Germany 06-10 Joachim Parsch
7 Italy 86-90 milivella
7 W.Germany 74-78 Joachim Parsch
9 Italy 06-10 Futbolmetrix
10 Germany 02-06 Joachim Parsch
10 Italy 82-86 Futbolmetrix
11 Italy 78-82 Futbolmetrix
11 N.Ireland 82-86 Futbolmetrix + milivella
14 Australia 06-10 The Scrutineer
14 Brazil 58-62 milivella
14 France 98-02 milivella
--
Cheers
milivella
Abubakr
1d3034...@o26g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, mili...@gmail.com says...
Here's another one to tie with the 14'ers: West Germany 66-70.
Honorable mention must also go to Argentina 98-02 as they would have had
14 players in common too had Caniggia not missed out on the 98
tournament for some inexplicable reason.
Clément
>
> milivella:
>> Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
>> (final tournament) to the next one?
>
> And the one that retained most? Last 24 hours to beat Abubakr, Werner,
> Scrutineer and me:
>
> 3 Argentina 74-78 Abubakr
> 3 England 54-58 Werner Pichler
> 14 Australia 06-10 The Scrutineer
> 14 Brazil 58-62 milivella
> 14 France 98-02 milivella
I tried all versions of Poland from 1974 to 1986, hoping to find one that
retained 14 or more players, but no dice. Maximum was 10 or 11, I think.
Abraço,
Luiz Mello
MH
> milivella:
>> Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
>> (final tournament) to the next one?
>
> And the one that retained most?
Let me check on some Scotland squads, and Ireland 90-94. They are both a
possibility, though I don't know they will get to 14 or more.
MH
> On 11/04/11 7:07 AM, milivella wrote:
>> milivella:
>>> Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
>>> (final tournament) to the next one?
Scotland 1954 to 1958 would appear to have retained only 2. Tommy
Docherty and Doug Cowie.
Only 13 of the squad of 22 actually travelled to Switzerland in 1954,
but those two players were among the 13.
>>
>> And the one that retained most?
>
> Let me check on some Scotland squads, and Ireland 90-94. They are both a
> possibility, though I don't know they will get to 14 or more.
Ireland 90 - 94 13. Niall Quinn did not make the squad in 1994
(Injured ?) , though he was back in 2002.
Have some more checking to do for the Scots.
MH
> On 11/04/11 4:15 PM, MH wrote:
>> On 11/04/11 7:07 AM, milivella wrote:
>>> milivella:
>>>> Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
>>>> (final tournament) to the next one?
>
> Scotland 1954 to 1958 would appear to have retained only 2. Tommy
> Docherty and Doug Cowie.
> Only 13 of the squad of 22 actually travelled to Switzerland in 1954,
> but those two players were among the 13.
Woops , missed one. Willie Fernie was on both squads.
milivella
> In article <fd0b109c-df0d-4a27-b815-
> 1d3034803...@o26g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, milive...@gmail.com says...
Confirmed:
Bernd Patzke
Franz Beckenbauer
Helmut Haller
Horst-Dieter Höttges
Jürgen Grabowski
Karl-Heinz Schnellinger
Klaus-Dieter Sieloff
Max Lorenz
Sepp Maier
Sigfried Held
Uwe Seeler
Willi Schulz
Wolfgang Overath
Wolfgang Weber
> Honorable mention must also go to Argentina 98-02 as they would have had
> 14 players in common too had Caniggia not missed out on the 98
> tournament for some inexplicable reason.
He "fell fowl of manager Passarella's long-hair rule"?
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/dream-teams-boca-juniors-1695271.html?action=Gallery&ino=6
I didn't know it!
--
Cheers
milivella
milivella
> On 11/04/11 6:14 PM, MH wrote:
>
> > On 11/04/11 4:15 PM, MH wrote:
> >> On 11/04/11 7:07 AM, milivella wrote:
> >>> milivella:
> >>>> Are you able to find the NT that retained least player from one WC
> >>>> (final tournament) to the next one?
>
> > Scotland 1954 to 1958 would appear to have retained only 2. Tommy
> > Docherty and Doug Cowie.
> > Only 13 of the squad of 22 actually travelled to Switzerland in 1954,
> > but those two players were among the 13.
>
> Woops , missed one. Willie Fernie was on both squads.
Wikipedia adds Bobby Evans. How do you reply? It's the difference
between you earning a title in the hall of fame or being excluded! :)
--
Cheers
milivella
MH
Oops. Missed him too. Should not be allowed to change numbers that much.
>
> --
> Cheers
> milivella
Abubakr
@z31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com>, mili...@gmail.com says...
> Subject: Re: Trivia: shiny new national teams
> From: milivella <mili...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer> > [quoted text muted]
Oh yes, as did the great Redondo! I had forgottten about that. What a
banana head that Passarella was, seriously!
milivella
3 Argentina 74-78 Abubakr
3 England 54-58 Werner Pichler
4 Argentina 02-06 The Scrutineer
4 Brazil 54-58 Futbolmetrix
4 Scotland 54-58 MH
4 Spain 82-86 Futbolmetrix
4 W.Germany 78-82 Joachim Parsch
5 Italy 74-78 Futbolmetrix
6 Brazil 98-02 The Scrutineer
6 Germany 98-02 The Scrutineer
6 Italy 90-94 Futbolmetrix
6 Italy 94-98 Futbolmetrix
6 W.Germany 62-66 Joachim Parsch
7 Denmark 98-02 Jesper Lauridsen
7 Germany 06-10 Joachim Parsch
7 Italy 86-90 milivella
7 W.Germany 74-78 Joachim Parsch
9 Italy 06-10 Futbolmetrix
10 Germany 02-06 Joachim Parsch
10 Italy 82-86 Futbolmetrix
11 Italy 78-82 Futbolmetrix
11 N.Ireland 82-86 Futbolmetrix + milivella
13 Argentina 98-02 Abubakr
13 Ireland 90-94 MH
14 Australia 06-10 The Scrutineer
14 Brazil 58-62 milivella
14 France 98-02 milivella
14 W.Germany 66-70 Abubakr
Five new entries (three of us once + Abubakr twice) in the hall of
fame:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tn75Yf90b-qwbMG1_elVCog&output=html
Congratulations to the winners/thanks for everybody!
--
Cheers
milivella