Ingurland - Россия [R]

[alka...@hotmail.com]

England:
Hart
Walker Smalling Cahill Rose
Dier Alli
Lallana Shrek Sterling
Kane

Russia:
A lot of ovs, ichs, and skis.

[alka...@hotmail.com]

And let's not forget the Russian coach, Slutsky.

[Chagney Hunt]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:

There's one German name as well.

[alka...@hotmail.com]

Quite a back story:

Neustädter's ancestors were ethnic Germans who lived on territories of Russian Empire and later, USSR.[citation needed] Following World War II, ethnic Germans were forcefully relocated by the Soviet government. Neustädter's family was relocated into Central Asia. Neustädter is the son of Peter Neustädter, a former Kazakhstani footballer for Mainz 05 and former manager of Mainz 05 II.[2] Neustädter was born in Dnipropetrovsk, Ukrainian SSR, while his father was playing for Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk.[3] Due to his heritage and birth, he was eligible to play for Germany, Ukraine, Russia and Kazakhstan in international competitions.

[Sven Mischkies]

After 89 a lot of these 'expats' (they lived in Russia for hundreds of
years) came back to Germany, courtesy to a special policy implemented by
Kohl. There are plenty of these (or their children) now in sports and
show biz in Germany.

Of course long before that there was an influx into the USA - John
Denver, P Anschuetz are probably the best known names.


Ciao,
SM
--
91st Minute in the relegation play off:
KSC 1 - 0 HSV. HSV must score or or gets relegated.
"I'll shoot" - Rafael van der Vaart to Marcelo Diaz
"Yeah! Tomorrow, my friend – tomorrow!" - Marcelo Diaz

[alka...@hotmail.com]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:

According to Ian Darke England playing 4-3-3 with Shrek further back in a 3 man midfield.

[Chagney Hunt]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:

Russian anthem was roundly greeted with jeers. The favor was returned with God saves the queen, abeit less noisy.

WTF, England's players are singing the national anthem. I thought only please-look-at-me Beckham does that.

[Jesper Lauridsen]

Russia doesn't really seem like the obvious choice here.

[Jesper Lauridsen]

Pretty good first half from England, but no goals to show for it.

[Chagney Hunt]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:

By their usual standard, England started well. Still, Russia had more reason to be happy -- they still had all their marbles; and though England had almost all the chances, Akinfeev haven't really had to make a difficult save. They can wait on England to press the self-destruct button.

[Jesper Lauridsen]

There was the shot from Lallana.

Time for Roy to bring some fresh blood. Sterling needs to go.

[Chagney Hunt]

First good save by Akinfeev from Rooney. And then after all the terrible dead balls (Kane taking corners, why?), Dier scored from a free kick.

1-0.

Lets see if they can hold the lead.

[Sven Mischkies]

Akinfeev made a fantastic save from a Rooney shot, but England scored
sortly after from a fk. Question: Was that a foul?

[HASM]

> but England scored sortly after from a fk.
> Question: Was that a foul?

Marginal at best. Caution not deserved.

-- HASM

[Jesper Lauridsen]

On 2016-06-11, Sven Mischkies <hs...@der-ball-ist-rund.net> wrote:
>
> Akinfeev made a fantastic save from a Rooney shot, but England scored
> sortly after from a fk. Question: Was that a foul?

You can call it or not. Certainly not a yellow.

Poor positioning from Akinfeev on the fk. Can nobody defend fks in this
tournament?

[Chagney Hunt]

Jack Wilshire on for Rooney, after Rooney got caught in possession for the second time. Woy is showing he's not afraid to take his captain off?

To his credits, Rooney wasn't bad and wasn't selfish as many feared.

[Chagney Hunt]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:32:10 PM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> Jesper Lauridsen <rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:
>
> > On 2016-06-11, Chagney Hunt <ess...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 2:26:12 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >> England:
> > >> Hart
> > >> Walker Smalling Cahill Rose
> > >> Dier Alli
> > >> Lallana Shrek Sterling
> > >> Kane
> > >>
> > >> Russia:
> > >> A lot of ovs, ichs, and skis.
> > >
> > > By their usual standard, England started well. Still, Russia had more
> > >reason to be happy -- they still had all their marbles; and though
> > >England had almost all the chances, Akinfeev haven't really had to make a
> > >difficult save. They can wait on England to press the self-destruct
> > >button.
> > >
> > There was the shot from Lallana.
> >
> > Time for Roy to bring some fresh blood. Sterling needs to go.
>
>
> Akinfeev made a fantastic save from a Rooney shot, but England scored
> sortly after from a fk. Question: Was that a foul?
>

I'm not sure it was. Obstruction calls are iffy. But the booking?

[Sven Mischkies]

Jesper Lauridsen <rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:

> Sterling needs to go.


Why does he remind me these days of Joe Cole?

[Chagney Hunt]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:42:52 PM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> Jesper Lauridsen <rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:
>
> > Sterling needs to go.
>
>
> Why does he remind me these days of Joe Cole?

There's a more obvious comparison: Shaun Wright-Phillips.

1-1.

[HASM]

> I'm not sure it was. Obstruction calls are iffy.

Obstruction would be an indirect free kick...

-- HASM

[Sven Mischkies]

I forgot about him.


> 1-1.


Once again England saves the day. Hilarious. :)

[Jesper Lauridsen]

Odd scene after the final whistle, as part of the stand behind England's
goal empties very fast, with people running to get out. I think that was
the Russian sector, whoch was supposed to wait until the rest of the
ground had been cleared.

[Futbolmetrix]

On 6/11/2016 4:29 PM, Chagney Hunt wrote:
>
> Lets see if they can hold the lead.

Why do you ask these rhetorical questions?

[I actually like Ingurland and want them to do well, but it's just
impossible to restrain the LOLs...]

[alka...@hotmail.com]

England paid the price for having Hodgson as coach. Sterling and Lallana were waning in influence and there were a whole host of offensive options on the bench but the senile old man opts to put the completely match unfit Wilshire on.

[Futbolmetrix]

On 6/11/2016 4:53 PM, Sven Mischkies wrote:
>
>
> Once again England saves the day. Hilarious. :)

+1

[Chagney Hunt]

I was okay with Wilshire on for Rooney to defend a lead -- though I expected him to be better than that (his only involvement was a hospital pass to Milner, I think?) . England needed someone fast to play on the break so it should have been Vardy on, not Milner.

And the goal they conceded seemed like it was in slo-mo. Everyone froze?

[Futbolmetrix]

Also, England managed to spoil the nice run that Western Europe was
having over Central/Eastern Europe.

[alka...@hotmail.com]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 5:03:44 PM UTC-4, Chagney Hunt wrote:
> On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:56:42 PM UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:49:02 PM UTC-4, Chagney Hunt wrote:
> > > On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 4:42:52 PM UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> > > > Jesper Lauridsen <rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Sterling needs to go.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why does he remind me these days of Joe Cole?
> > >
> > > There's a more obvious comparison: Shaun Wright-Phillips.
> > >
> > > 1-1.
> >
> > England paid the price for having Hodgson as coach. Sterling and Lallana were waning in influence and there were a whole host of offensive options on the bench but the senile old man opts to put the completely match unfit Wilshire on.
>
> I was okay with Wilshire on for Rooney to defend a lead

I meant earlier even before their goal.

-- though I expected him to be better than that (his only involvement was a hospital pass to Milner, I think?) . England needed someone fast to play on the break so it should have been Vardy on, not Milner.

Yep.

>
> And the goal they conceded seemed like it was in slo-mo. Everyone froze?

I need to see the replay but I think it was mainly Hart at fault by being woefully out of position.

[Sven Mischkies]

Chagney Hunt <ess...@gmail.com> wrote:

> And the goal they conceded seemed like it was in slo-mo. Everyone froze?

No, it just seemed so beacuse your laughing muscles started to
constrict. ;)

You got to give credit to the Russians for that one, especially to the
scorer - they played it very well, and he sneaked into position as well
as any attacker could, plus the header was just perfect.

Still, England should have won this one by 2 or 3 goals, if they keep
performing results will follow. Certainly the most watchable England at
a major tournament since I dunno, 2004?

[RED DEVIL]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 21:42:50 +0100, hs...@der-ball-ist-rund.net (Sven
Mischkies) wrote:

>Jesper Lauridsen <rors...@sorrystofanet.dk> wrote:
>
>> Sterling needs to go.
>
>
>Why does he remind me these days of Joe Cole?
>
>
>Ciao,
> SM

Hart needs to go with him!




The RED DEVIL

[Bruce D. Scott]

Sven Mischkies <hs...@der-ball-ist-rund.net> wrote:

> After 89 a lot of these 'expats' (they lived in Russia for hundreds of
> years) came back to Germany, courtesy to a special policy implemented by
> Kohl. There are plenty of these (or their children) now in sports and
> show biz in Germany.

Helene Fischer!

> Of course long before that there was an influx into the USA - John
> Denver, P Anschuetz are probably the best known names.

John Kay!
One of the few with two songs on the Easy Rider soundtrack...

--
ciao,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/

[The Doctor]

In article <njhrm6$arp$1...@dont-email.me>,

Anyone who plays for Manchester or Liverpool Fottballs Clubs
should be benched for the next game against Cymru.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism
Language is the source of misunderstandings. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[Sven Mischkies]

<alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > And the goal they conceded seemed like it was in slo-mo. Everyone froze?
>
> I need to see the replay but I think it was mainly Hart at fault by being
>woefully out of position.

Struggling with looping balls is a good old English keeper tradition.
Don't mess with it!

[jvazquez]

On Saturday, 11 June 2016 14:44:30 UTC-4, alka...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Quite a back story:
>
> Neustädter's ancestors were ethnic Germans who lived on territories of Russian Empire and later, USSR.[citation needed] Following World War II, ethnic Germans were forcefully relocated by the Soviet government. Neustädter's family was relocated into Central Asia. Neustädter is the son of Peter Neustädter, a former Kazakhstani footballer for Mainz 05 and former manager of Mainz 05 II.[2] Neustädter was born in Dnipropetrovsk, Ukrainian SSR, while his father was playing for Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk.[3] Due to his heritage and birth, he was eligible to play for Germany, Ukraine, Russia and Kazakhstan in international competitions.

I recently read that some guy wrote in 1925:

"For the Russian State was not organized by the constructive political talent of the Slav element in Russia, but was much more a marvellous exemplification of the capacity for State-building possessed by the Germanic element in a race of inferior worth. Thus were many powerful Empires created all over the earth. More often than once inferior races with Germanic organizers and rulers as their leaders became formidable States and continued to exist as long as the racial nucleus remained which had originally created each respective State. For centuries Russia owed the source of its livelihood as a State to the Germanic nucleus of its governing class. But this nucleus is now almost wholly broken up and abolished."

Disclaimer: I do not admire nor support nor condone the ideology of this guy.

As a pure curious historical interest, I ask: Is there any historical truth to this claim that the Germans were the elite that ruled and organized the Slavs in the Holy Mother Rossiyan Empire and other "many powerful Empires" as well?

JV

[jvazquez]

On Saturday, 11 June 2016 19:04:37 UTC-4, jvazquez wrote:

> As a pure curious historical interest, I ask: Is there any historical truth to this claim that the Germans were the elite that ruled and organized the Slavs in the Holy Mother Rossiyan Empire and other "many powerful Empires" as well?
>

When talking about the "many powerful Empires", was the guy referring to the Battenbergs or Mountbattens, as the last ruling dynasty of the British Empire?

JV

[PearsfromanElm]

LOL...which German elite in Russia? I thought the Czars were the fiefs
of Tatars. As to the 'many empires' claim, well nobody had heard of
Germany until the 19th century.


--
"In the frigid football at the end of the century, which detests defeat
and forbids all fun, that man was one of the few who proved that fantasy
can be efficient."

~Galeano on Maradona

[PearsfromanElm]

He was going toward the wall side of the goal on fks all game but in
this instance, with wall so close to goal, better to cover the normal side.

Good work by Dier to have noticed all this and whipping the towards the
left.

[PearsfromanElm]

bwhahahahaha

[PearsfromanElm]

On 12/06/2016 8:50 AM, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> And the goal they conceded seemed like it was in slo-mo. Everyone froze?
>>
>> I need to see the replay but I think it was mainly Hart at fault by being
>> woefully out of position.
>
>
> Struggling with looping balls is a good old English keeper tradition.
> Don't mess with it!

Russia were so terrible but you can't take that goal away from them.
That was expertly done.

[Sven Mischkies]

jvazquez <jvaz...@semavenca.com> wrote:

> Disclaimer: I do not admire nor support nor condone the ideology of this guy.

Then don't quote this shit.

> As a pure curious historical interest, I ask: Is there any historical
>truth to this claim that the Germans were the elite that ruled and
>organized the Slavs in the Holy Mother Rossiyan Empire and other "many
>powerful Empires" as well?

It's a bit like a stereotype - a small core of truth blown completely
out of proportion.

1) As you know nobility only marries nobility. The Holy Roman Empire
(=i.e. the first German Reich since 950 or so) consisted of many, many
small principalities that were sort of self governing to various
degrees. This meant a huge wealth of available nobility, and the result
was that German princes and princesses were married away all over
Europe, because you can only inbreed so much. As the most famous example
google saxe-coburg-gotha's family tree. The single most famous ruler is
probably Catherine the Great (of Russia) who was a princess of one of
the more important German houses.
Of course they didn't go unaccompanied, so there is an influx in the
ruling classes of other countries coming with that, especially in the
Russia of Catherine the Great (all those Russian Germans? She and her
grandson invited them.). Still, this influx doesn't account for much of
the population or even ruling class.

2) As Western Europe was pretty much developed so Germany looked for
expansion mostly the other way, and as a result had a strong cultural
influence in Eastern Europe - first city laws were often copied or
incluenced by German city laws (google madgeburg rights, or german town
law), German became the lingua franca in Eastern Europe (and maybe as a
result Yiddish to this day is one of the closest relatives of German? It
is, but I dunno its history.). You also got Eastern European rulers
asking for German settlers (which is how German populations were created
in Russia and Transsylvania - yes Dracula ruled over sort of Germans
until the 1990s ;)).

3) However, nothing of the above accounts for German ruling classes.
This only happened in the Baltic, and how that came to pass or ended was
not pretty (google Old Prussians for a start). You can look further
back, but then it's not German, but Germanic ruling classes (the Franks
in France etc), but they pretty quickly mixed with the local population,
so shouldn't really count. Plus, that time is known as the dark ages for
a reason, so these new ruling classes might not have enlightened their
lower classes all that much. ;)

[Bruce D. Scott]

jvazquez <jvaz...@semavenca.com> wrote:

> As a pure curious historical interest, I ask: Is there any historical
> truth to this claim that the Germans were the elite that ruled and
> organized the Slavs in the Holy Mother Rossiyan Empire and other "many
> powerful Empires" as well?

It was Vikings, not Germans. They settled in Kiev, which they either
founded or greatly expanded.

I once commented to a friend that it was amusing to see how both France
and Germany claim Karl der Grosse (Charlemagne) as their own. He said
it was neither nor, clearly the guy was Austrian! Of course he was
Austrian. Of course he wouldn't admit Austria didn't come close to
existing then :-)

[Sven Mischkies]

Bruce D. Scott <b...@g01.itm.rzg.mpg.de> wrote:

> jvazquez <jvaz...@semavenca.com> wrote:
>
> > As a pure curious historical interest, I ask: Is there any historical
> > truth to this claim that the Germans were the elite that ruled and
> > organized the Slavs in the Holy Mother Rossiyan Empire and other "many
> > powerful Empires" as well?
>
> It was Vikings, not Germans. They settled in Kiev, which they either
> founded or greatly expanded.

Ah, yes, I forgot. But I guess 3) can cover that as well.

> I once commented to a friend that it was amusing to see how both France
> and Germany claim Karl der Grosse (Charlemagne) as their own. He said
> it was neither nor, clearly the guy was Austrian! Of course he was
> Austrian. Of course he wouldn't admit Austria didn't come close to
> existing then :-)

What can I say? Apparently we're also all his distant offspring. :)

[jvazquez]

On Saturday, 11 June 2016 20:00:16 UTC-4, Bruce D. Scott wrote:
>
> I once commented to a friend that it was amusing to see how both France
> and Germany claim Karl der Grosse (Charlemagne) as their own. He said
> it was neither nor, clearly the guy was Austrian! Of course he was
> Austrian. Of course he wouldn't admit Austria didn't come close to
> existing then :-)

Thanks.

But how come you say Charlemagne was Austrian?

I have found that his birthplace is not known.

Some believe he was born near Liege, in modern day Belgium.

Not even his date of birth is precisely known, which is said to be between 742 and 747.


But interesting the Vikings side of the history.

[jvazquez]

On Saturday, 11 June 2016 19:57:54 UTC-4, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> jvazquez <jvaz...@semavenca.com> wrote:
>
> > Disclaimer: I do not admire nor support nor condone the ideology of this guy.
>
>
> Then don't quote this shit.

You mean "the guy" was shit or that my disclaimer is shit? ;-)

You never know, you could get jail in some countries if you are not careful taking about his shit.

> > As a pure curious historical interest, I ask: Is there any historical
> >truth to this claim that the Germans were the elite that ruled and
> >organized the Slavs in the Holy Mother Rossiyan Empire and other "many
> >powerful Empires" as well?
>
>
> It's a bit like a stereotype - a small core of truth blown completely
> out of proportion.

That, I suspected.

> google saxe-coburg-gotha's family tree. The single most famous ruler is
> probably Catherine the Great (of Russia) who was a princess of one of
> the more important German houses.
> Of course they didn't go unaccompanied, so there is an influx in the
> ruling classes of other countries coming with that, especially in the
> Russia of Catherine the Great (all those Russian Germans? She and her
> grandson invited them.). Still, this influx doesn't account for much of
> the population or even ruling class.

I "researched" several Ivans, a few Peters and the only German, apparently was Catherine.

> 2) As Western Europe was pretty much developed so Germany looked for
> expansion mostly the other way, and as a result had a strong cultural
> influence in Eastern Europe - first city laws were often copied or
> incluenced by German city laws (google madgeburg rights, or german town
> law), German became the lingua franca in Eastern Europe (and maybe as a
> result Yiddish to this day is one of the closest relatives of German? It
> is, but I dunno its history.). You also got Eastern European rulers
> asking for German settlers (which is how German populations were created
> in Russia and Transsylvania - yes Dracula ruled over sort of Germans
> until the 1990s ;)).

Old Prussians research done.

Thanks.

[jvazquez]

On Saturday, 11 June 2016 19:31:30 UTC-4, PearsfromanElm wrote:
> >
> > As a pure curious historical interest, I ask: Is there any historical truth to this claim that the Germans were the elite that ruled and organized the Slavs in the Holy Mother Rossiyan Empire and other "many powerful Empires" as well?
>
> LOL...which German elite in Russia? I thought the Czars were the fiefs
> of Tatars. As to the 'many empires' claim, well nobody had heard of
> Germany until the 19th century.
>

Thanks, but I think he was referring to the Germanic element, instead of Germany as a country.

A propos, I find it paradoxical that Germany (and many European states), in its present form dates back to 1949, whereas most American countries were "constituted"(*) ;-), from 1788 (USA) onwards, until around 1900 (Cuba).

(*) I use the inverted commas, as some people say that we are not countries, but a lot of people living together.

[PearsfromanElm]

Well he was a Frank, so related to France in that sense.

> But interesting the Vikings side of the history.
>
>

[Bruce D. Scott]

jvazquez <jvaz...@semavenca.com> wrote:

> But how come you say Charlemagne was Austrian?

In the US we usually learn of him in the French way. My Austrian friend
said he was Austrian, of course :-)

> I have found that his birthplace is not known.
>
> Some believe he was born near Liege, in modern day Belgium.

Doesn't matter. His "home" is Aachen, which the French call
Aix-la-Chapelle. In 2014 there was a big bash in Aachen for tourist
money about the 1200th anniversary of his death. Lots of renovation of
the old sites. But the cathedral there is well worth the visit.

> Not even his date of birth is precisely known, which is said to be
> between 742 and 747.

But the dates of coronation and of death are well documented.

> But interesting the Vikings side of the history.

That's well known. Any decent text of Russian history will cover it.

[alka...@hotmail.com]

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 7:46:53 PM UTC-4, PearsfromanElm wrote:
> On 12/06/2016 8:50 AM, Sven Mischkies wrote:
> > <alka...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> And the goal they conceded seemed like it was in slo-mo. Everyone froze?
> >>
> >> I need to see the replay but I think it was mainly Hart at fault by being
> >> woefully out of position.
> >
> >
> > Struggling with looping balls is a good old English keeper tradition.
> > Don't mess with it!
>
> Russia were so terrible but you can't take that goal away from them.

Yes, I don't think anyone's mentioned how truly abysmal they were. It kind of tempers England's good performance - on this showing I'd say the Russians are favorites to bottom the group.

[Sven Mischkies]

jvazquez <jvaz...@semavenca.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, 11 June 2016 19:31:30 UTC-4, PearsfromanElm wrote:
> > >
> > > As a pure curious historical interest, I ask: Is there any historical
> > >truth to this claim that the Germans were the elite that ruled and
> > >organized the Slavs in the Holy Mother Rossiyan Empire and other "many
> > >powerful Empires" as well?
> > >
> > LOL...which German elite in Russia? I thought the Czars were the fiefs
> > of Tatars. As to the 'many empires' claim, well nobody had heard of
> > Germany until the 19th century.
> >
>
> Thanks, but I think he was referring to the Germanic element, instead of
> Germany as a country.

I dunno, it was a really weird comment unless I am missing something
major here. Henry the 1st, the Fowler is regarded as the first king of
Germany. He got the job in 919, so PfE is out just a few centuries
there.

Even if I check English wikipedia they talk about Germany and German for
his kingdom, so it is not a matter of terminology/translation.

And regarding the Germanic element: Germany at its heart/origin is
really just a federation of (southern) Germanic tribes. Maybe it's the
federal thing that confuses people?

> A propos, I find it paradoxical that Germany (and many European states),
> in its present form dates back to 1949, whereas most American countries
> were "constituted"(*) ;-), from 1788 (USA) onwards, until around 1900
> (Cuba).

We like to complicate things around here.

> (*) I use the inverted commas, as some people say that we are not
> countries, but a lot of people living together.

:) The Copa suggests otherwise, though.

[Benny]

On 12/06/2016 11:48, jvazquez wrote:
>
> Old Prussians research done.
>
> Thanks.

These history lessons are much more interesting than the game.