XC 700 SP PERFORMANCE
Holkev5
TO 180/185 JETS. STILL NOTICE A THROTTLE HESITATION PROBABLY 50% OF THE TIME
FROM A STANDING FULL THROTTLE RUN. THIS WAS BETWEEN 0-500 FT ABOVE SEA LEVEL AT
APPROX 25 DEGREES. OTHERWISE I'M EXTREMELY HAPPY WITH THE SLED,FROM A ROLL IT
REALLY ROCKS,SUSPENSION WORKS GREAT NO SKI LIFT ON HARD CORNERS, THE REAR
SUSPENSION IS A LITTLE FIRM FOR ME. I ONLY WEIGH 160 LBS AND WILL BE GOING TO
THE NEXT SIZE LOWER REAR TORSION SPRING. BUT WHEN REALLY PUSHED HARD IS REALLY
IMPRESSIVE. ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU HAVE FOR CURING THIS HESITATION CONDITION WOULD
BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. GAS MILEAGE WAS 8MPH WITH STOCK JETS AND 8MPG WITH
180/185 JETS. KEVIN F 00 XC 700 XP180 MAINTENANCE FREE MILES.
SledderXC
situation with the burbling hesitation up to about 6500 rpm's.
I thought that maybe changing the factory cal. of 190/195 might
change this but after reading your input maybe I will leave it
alone. I am @ the same alt. and temp that you are and the best I
got out of a 187 mile weekend was 7.5 mpg. I sure hope this
improves! (any suggestions??) If you find out any type of setup
that will improve this please let me Know.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Rob Lyons
<sledsix...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>I also just purchased a 00' XC 700 and it seems to have the same
>situation with the burbling hesitation up to about 6500 rpm's.
>I thought that maybe changing the factory cal. of 190/195 might
>change this but after reading your input maybe I will leave it
>alone. I am @ the same alt. and temp that you are and the best I
>got out of a 187 mile weekend was 7.5 mpg. I sure hope this
>improves! (any suggestions??) If you find out any type of setup
>that will improve this please let me Know.
>
There seems to be a resurgence of complaints and questions on the XC700
mileage and driveablity lately. This is a long-running topic here on rss.
I know because I had a XC700 last year =^(
A frequent poster on rss, Terry (also known as "xcpilot") came up with the
best solutions for this motor. Either check the archives or email him
directly.
Terry, I hope you don't get bored answering the same questions over and
over!!
Rob in Vermont
xcp...@my-deja.com
I think you need a set of 1370G Polaris needles. This will go a long
way towards cleaning up your mid range blues. I use 1371G needles in
my sleds but I am 1500 feet higher so to be safe I suggest the 1370's.
The last two # denote how lean the needles are in the 0 to 1/4 throttle
range. Stock is 1368G, next leaner is 1369G, then 1370G, then 1371G
and so on. If you want to lean out the 1/4 to 1/2 throttle range you
change the last letter-a 1371J is leaner than a 1371G. I use 1371G at
low altitude (2000') and 1372J at 6000'. You are extremely low so I
feel more comfortable with 1370G (use the center notch for the clip). I
have rode my sleds with the 1371G's at 1000', but only for a couple of
days at around 25F. I saw a posting in the NG the other day where a 700
rider at 800' elevation said he was too lean in the midrange with
1371G's. I think this was on long rides in cold temps at one throttle
setting. The present rider of my 98 700 has a digitron exhaust temp
gage on it and he tells me that he is running 1275F in the mid range,
but the motor seems very happy at that temp. I believe 1400 is the
danger zone on these motors. The main jets are another story. For the
last couple of years Polaris was happy with 185 main jets in their
700's, even for low altitudes. Now they have a new even more
restrictive air box and muffler and they put in 195/190 jets-I don't
get it. I think you should at least jet down to Polaris's old 185 jet
spec. I have a 00 700 and if anything it seems to need slightly smaller
jets than my 98. BTW you will need 5.5 slides and 38 pilots, but if
your sled is a 2000 you should already have these parts in your carbs.
Terry
In article <J4+iOLoJfAUxQgE=xQtRPI...@4ax.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
David Anderson
At 6000' using the 1371J do you drop it a notch or does the needle lean
it "equivalent" to the stock needle dropped 1 notch? Thanks
Roy Taghon
Thanks again to xcpilot, Rob, Daryl, Jleo, and others that have been
VERY helpful and generous with their time over the last year or so! I've
gotten, BY FAR... more help via this silly computer than I ever have
from any dealer or magazine... but I'll save that for a summer post!
On my sled I go back and forth between a Cat and Polaris driven with
various combinations, but the other night I was back to a setup I used
last year with the Cat roller driven that seemed to work really
well--very responsive and great backshifting, especially when riding
hard on tight twisty trails (safest at night BTW!): Stock 60g weights,
HPE orange spring (engages 4500ish and doesn't sackout or break like an
Erlandson PS-6 silver), Black Magic 60/40 helix, Cat yellow spring in #2
or #3, 178 mains (1000' alt, all temps), 1371G-3 needles, 5.5 slides, 35
pilots, air screws 2 1/2 out for all but coldest temps, 192 Woody's
1.175 studs. This jetting seemed fine for THIS particular sled (87
octane) during my last 650 mile trip up north, with no problems even at
-10 to -20F, except for the usual cold blooded ten minute warm-up
procedures at those ridiculously cold temps!
However, there is one annoying carb/weather related phenomenon I've run
into a few times: Once in a while it seems to go very, very rich on the
bottom end--especially below 5000 RPM--acts just like the snow filter is
completely plugged with snow (but it's not). It starts loading-up very
easily at low RPM cruising speeds, and the idle drops way down from
where it normally would be. After stopping for a few minutes or so (to
let the carbs thaw?), it seems to run fine again. I checked the carbs
once after experiencing these symptoms, and sure enough they were
frosted on the outside, and most likely, probably on the intake (air
screw passages?) as well! I've had this happen in both cold AND warm
temps, so I think the common factor is high humidity--regardless of
temperature. I don't know if this is just a thing with the Keihin carbs
or what. Maybe this is why Yamaha heats their carbs with engine coolant?
I can't say for sure if ISO will do anything for this problem, as it
seems to be more of a humid air/velocity problem, then a water/fuel
problem, and it's kind of hard to wait for the problem conditions to do
a with/without ISO test, if you know what I mean! Anyway, if you ever
experience these symptoms, make sure you stop and take a look at your
carbs before you go changing your jetting!
I used to load the engine down to 7700-7800 RPM, but now I shoot for
7900-8000 in general. BTW, I'm using a Digitron tach--RPM only. It's
probably quicker in a drag race at lower R's, but you DO sacrifice
overall throttle responsiveness and backshifting IMO. I now settle for
the slightly higher R's as it just FEELS, SO much more fun on a good
hard packed trail!
I've been experimenting with this sled for 7000 miles now, and I think
this is the setup I'm probably going to stick with (in most conditions)
for the next 7000 miles. Not a perfect sled, but definitely the best and
funnest sled I've ever had! No serious problems yet: original top end
(pistons and rings), just bought a new drive clutch yesterday (old one
was getting pretty noisy...finally), replaced many hood cables (too much
dinking around under the hood), and have to fix a coolant leak that's
developed around the waterpump area.
For anyone that's interested, the Cat roller driven is much easier (and
cleaner) to work with. On my stock '98 XC7 (220 cylinders) I did have to
shim the bellypan out a bit so I could get the driven off and on a
little easier. As far as offset, when using the Cat driven, I removed 3
of the thin jackshaft washers. The way I figured, you can use the
Polaris offset tool, and at the BACK of the Cat driven you should have
about 3/32" (drill bit) of an air gap, with the driven pushed inward on
the jackshaft. Don't forget to set your belt deflection settings (for
the Cat or Polaris driven) BEFORE setting the offset, as different
deflection settings will change the offset slightly.
FYI, a few other things that have worked for me and that I highly recommend:
*SLP TruTrack Runners and Woody's 8" Sure Steer Carbides--No more
darting/tracking problems... finally!
*Grab-On handlebar grips--The very first thing we put on all of our
sleds around here!
*Short (45 degree) handlebar hook--left side
*1.5" (or at least 1") handlebar riser kit--This was a must, at least on
my '98 Wedgie!
*PowerMadd's Cargo Caddy--Great high quality (tool) storage box that
mounts on the belt guard.
*Sno-Tec Powder Prefilter--Really works and is a must IMO for
powder/snowdust conditions
That's it for now, dinner's on! If anyone can add any other good tuning
info, or list other items that have worked for them, please do... or
maybe that'd make a good separate subject to post on the board?!
P.S. Just looked outside, and it's finally starting to look like winter
again here in NW lower Mich!
Roy
Rob Lyons
Thanks for that excellent report!
I agree with you..There is a tremendous amount of knowledge shared here on
rss. Your report is an example of that! And yes, I encountered the carb
icing problem you describe many times on my XC7. Each time it would just
go away by itself by shutting the engine off and allowing the heat from the
engine to melt the carbs. Happened on high-humidity days, just as you
said.
Good luck,
Rob in Vermont
On Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:14:06 -0500, Roy Taghon <rta...@traverse.net>
wrote:
xcp...@my-deja.com
I am confused by your posting. You refer to 1371J needles. I use 1371G
at low altitude in the center clip. At 6000' I used 1372J dropped one
clip leaner than the center. This combination allowed me to travel 140
miles on about 10 gallons of fuel-twice. You must use 5.5 slides with
the 1372J needles. I tried 6.0 last year with these needles (1372J) in
B.C. last year. I had to drive for several miles up the mountain with
the choke 1/2 on to keep the sled from backfiring.
Terry
In article <87vhp5$3un$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
David Anderson
xcp...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi David
> I am confused by your posting. You refer to 1371J needles. I use 1371G
> at low altitude in the center clip. At 6000' I used 1372J dropped one
> clip leaner than the center. This combination allowed me to travel 140
> miles on about 10 gallons of fuel-twice. You must use 5.5 slides with
> the 1372J needles. I tried 6.0 last year with these needles (1372J) in
> B.C. last year. I had to drive for several miles up the mountain with
> the choke 1/2 on to keep the sled from backfiring.
>
Terry,
Sorry, I meant to say the 1372J at 6000'. Anyway you answered my
question about dropping the 1372J one clip leaner, which you do. I am
new at the needle game and have not done much other than change jets
and lower the stock needle. An earlier post stated that the 2000 700's
have 5.5 slides in them already. I am impressed by your stated mileage
numbers of 140 miles/10 gallons. Is this Canadian or US, and is it
entirely a result of dropping the needle? In your last example of the
1372J with 6.0 slides and driving 1/2 choke up the mountain, would
moving the clip back to the center have help that situation?
Speaking for myself and the others, your sharing of this information is
much appreciated. Maybe see you next weekend.
Thanks
Dave
Roy Taghon
Below is the setup I've been using on my STOCK'98 XC700 (220 cylinders).
Thanks again to xcpilot, Rob, Daryl, Jleo, and others that have been
VERY helpful and generous with their time over the last year or so! I've
gotten more help via this silly computer than I ever have from any
dealer or magazine... BY FAR!
I've been alternating back and forth between a Cat and Polaris driven
with various combinations, but lately I'm back to a setup I used last
year with the Cat roller driven that seemed to work really well--very
responsive and great backshifting, especially when riding hard on tight
twisty trails (safest at night BTW!): Stock 60g weights, HPE orange
spring (engages 4300ish and doesn't sackout or break like an Erlandson
PS-6 silver), Black Magic 60/40 helix, Cat yellow spring in #2 or #3,
178 mains (1000' alt, all temps), 1371G-3 needles, 5.5 slides, 35
pilots, air screws 2 1/2 out for all but coldest temps, 192 Woody's
1.175 studs. This jetting combo seemed fine for THIS particular sled (87
octane) during my last 650 mile trip up north, with no problems even at
-10 to -20F, except for the usual cold blooded ten minute warm-up
procedures at those ridiculously cold temps!
However, there is one annoying carb/weather related phenomenon I've run
into a few times: Once in a while for no immediately apparent reason, it
seems to go very, very rich on the bottom end--especially below 5000
RPM--acts just like the snow filter is completely plugged with snow (but
it's not). It starts loading-up very easily at low RPM cruising speeds,
and the idle drops way down from where it normally would be. After
stopping for a few minutes or so (to let the carbs thaw?), it seems to
run fine again. I checked the carbs once after experiencing these
symptoms, and sure enough they were frosted on the outside, and most
likely on the intake (air screw passages?) as well! I've had this happen
in both cold AND warm temps, so I think the common factor is high
humidity--regardless of temperature. I don't know if this is just a
thing with the Keihin carbs or what. Maybe this is why Yamaha heats
their carbs with engine coolant? I can't say for sure if ISO will do
anything for this problem, as it seems to be more of a humid
air/velocity problem, then a water/fuel problem, and it's kind of hard
to wait for the "right" conditions to do a with/without ISO test, if you
know what I mean! Anyway, if you ever experience these symptoms, make
sure you stop and take a look at your carbs before you go changing your jetting!
I used to load the engine down to 7700-7800 RPM, but now I shoot for
7900-8000 in general. BTW, I'm using a Digitron tach (RPM only). The
sled is probably quicker in a drag race situation when loaded for the
lower R's, but you DO sacrifice overall throttle response and
backshifting IMO. I now settle for the slightly higher R's as it just
FEELS, SO much more fun trail riding!
I've been experimenting with this sled for 7000 miles now, and I think
the above setup is what I'm probably going to stick with for the most
part, for the next 7000 miles. This machine hasn't been perfect, but
it's definitely been the best and funnest sled I've ever had! No serious
problems yet: original top end (pistons and rings); just bought a new
drive clutch yesterday (old one was getting pretty noisy...finally);
replaced many hood cables (too much dinking around under the hood); have
to fix a coolant leak that's developed around the waterpump area.
For anyone that's interested, the Cat roller driven is much easier (and
cleaner) to work with. On my '98 I did have to shim the bellypan out a
bit so I could get the driven off and on a little easier. As far as
offset, when using the Cat driven, I removed 3 of the thin jackshaft
washers. The way I figured, you can use the Polaris offset tool, and at
the BACK of the Cat driven you should have about 3/32" (drill bit) of an
air gap, with the driven pushed inward on the jackshaft. Don't forget to
set your belt deflection settings (for the Cat or Polaris driven) BEFORE
setting the offset, as different deflection settings will change the
offset slightly.
FYI, a few other things that have worked for me and that I highly recommend:
*SLP TruTrack Runners and Woody's 8" Sure Steer Carbides--No more
darting/tracking problems... finally!
*Grab-On handlebar grips--The very first thing we put on all of our
sleds around here!
*Short (45 degree) handlebar hook--left side
*1.5" (or at least 1") handlebar riser kit--This was a must, at least on
my '98 Wedgie!
*PowerMadd's Cargo Caddy--Great high quality (tool) storage box that
mounts on the belt guard.
*Sno-Tec Powder Prefilter--Really works and is a must IMO for
powder/snowdust conditions
If anyone can add any other good tuning info, or list other items that
have worked for them, please do... or maybe that'd make a good separate
subject to post on the board?!
Later!
Roy
Ed_C
220 cylinders are only on one limited build of 700 Xc's
"Rob Lyons" <nosp...@together.net> wrote in message
news:Eu+jOJ4CGWYY9e...@4ax.com...
xcp...@my-deja.com
The 140 mile per tank rides took place in Idaho going from West
Yellowstone south into Idaho-yes those were US gallons. I have not been
able to duplicate that mileage with my 00 700 yet but I hope that after
the dyno runs and reclutching to get some decent numbers. On the
driving with the choke on, the clip was in the center. The 6.0 slides
really don't like to be run with 1372J needles-even in the center clip.
We are heading to Yellowstone on Wednesday, give me a shout at the Best
Western Executive Inn-room 220. If you are going to use a set of these
needles in Yellowstone, start with them in the center and be prepared
to do a bit of air screw tuning in case you get a lean bog on takeoff.
If so you will have to turn the air screws in 1/4 turn and retest. You
will know it is too lean if the idle speeds up. Normally you can get
rid of this with 1/2 to 3/4 turn in on the air screw. I have not yet
run these needles there on a stock sled so I too have a bit of
experimenting to do with my 600. The last two years I have used these
needles there has been on piped sleds.
Terry
In article <881tle$rec$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
SledderXC
I have tried to reach you via e-mail but possibly I am going
about this wrong but here it goes: I have a 00' 700xc sp
completly stock and was wondering if you could give me some
help? The sled seems to have that rich feeling up to 6500 rpm's.
I to am new to this needle game and also to rss and would
welcome any and all suggestions. I ride @ 0-1000ft and @ 0 to 30
degees. You seem to be a wealth of knowledge and I think its
Great that you can and have offered help to all these people.
You seem to know the setup to make these high torque sleds come
alive. Thanks in advance, Jerry (sledderxc)
Roy Taghon
>
> Just one problem Rob.......
> 220 cylinders are only on one limited build of 700 Xc's
>
220 cylinders.
Roy
Rob Lyons
wrote:
>Ed_C wrote:
>>
>> Just one problem Rob.......
>> 220 cylinders are only on one limited build of 700 Xc's
>>
>The '97's and some (maybe even quite a few) of the early '98's had the
>220 cylinders.
>Roy
And the 220 cylinders were the good ones!
I never could understand polaris' logic in changing them.......
Rob in Vermont
Ed_C
rideability the 220s' had a higher power band with less torque and more Hp,
"Rob Lyons" <nosp...@together.net> wrote in message
news:JpamOB+PSsQpoB...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 21:44:57 -0500, Roy Taghon <rta...@traverse.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Ed_C wrote:
> >>
> >> Just one problem Rob.......
> >> 220 cylinders are only on one limited build of 700 Xc's
> >>
xcp...@my-deja.com
Yes your sled is rich down at 6500 or less rpm. It is also rich
everywhere else too. I just read Roy's posting and he is riding at your
altitude and using 178 jets. I would have guessed 180 or 182. I use 178
(mag) and 165 (pto) on my 99 600 big block and they jet very similar to
the 700's. To be on the safe side I would probably jet 182 (mag) 175
(pto) and get a bend a lite so you can look down the spark plug holes
to see your piston domes if you want to go leaner than this. For
needles get some 1370G's and put the clip in the center. You may be
even able to use 1371G's like I do at 2000 feet, but maybe try the
1370G's first. All these changes are going to affect your sleds low end
response. It will start to get lean at idle and may bog on takeoff, it
may also start to idle too fast (2500+). By turning in the air screw
1/4 turn at a time you should be able to cear this up-get the idle back
down to 2000 or less and get rid of any lean bog off the line. In
extreme cases you may have to put in some 40 pilot jets and retune the
air screws. I was able to put boost bottles on both of my sleds and I
only adjusted the air screws on both-no pilot changes-a 00 700 with
pipes and a 99 600 stock. This setup described above should get a stock
piped sled running very nice-no burbles or gurgles anywhere, just hit
the throttle and go!! Smooth low speed cruising too without loading up.
As a side benefit your mileage will improve greatly, probably in the 10-
12 mpg range depending how you ride. You can email me at
tb...@crystalglass.ca
Terry
In article <080c31a2...@usw-ex0107-055.remarq.com>,
Diane Archie
"Holkev5" <hol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000209185424...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
site is www.klondyke.net/mcb Paul