AC ZR 700 vs. POL XC 700
Kim
winter....until I talked to a local Cat/Yamaha dealer last week. He
asked me what my reasoning was for purchasing either sled. I said, in a
nutshell:
a) trail comfort,
b) ease of use,
c) to smoke my SKIDOO 700
He told me I'd be better off with the XC 700. Why? Two reasons:
a) The ZR 700 is going to be much noisier,
b) The ZR 700 is a new model...bugs expected,
c) The ZR 700 will feel "front heavy" & bulky.
His comments clinched my decision. He didn't even bring up the Yamaha
name.
Interesting!!!
-Kim
97 GT SE
99 XC 700
KEW
Kim <nospamS...@aol.com> wrote in article
<6pkup5$4th$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>...
>
> He told me I'd be better off with the XC 700. Why? Two reasons:
>
> a) The ZR 700 is going to be much noisier,
> b) The ZR 700 is a new model...bugs expected,
> c) The ZR 700 will feel "front heavy" & bulky.
>
> His comments clinched my decision. He didn't even bring up the Yamaha
> name.
> Interesting!!!
> -Kim
///////////////////
He forgot to mention that Polaris is American.. kw
JEFF BARTON/KELLY SERVICES *THINK SNOW*
> I was still undecided of which of these gems to buy for this coming
> winter....until I talked to a local Cat/Yamaha dealer last week. He
> asked me what my reasoning was for purchasing either sled. I said, in a
> nutshell:
>
> a) trail comfort,
> b) ease of use,
> c) to smoke my SKIDOO 700
>
I can not argue his statement to buy a Polaris. a couple points need to be
made though on his statements.......
>
> a) The ZR 700 is going to be much noisier,
I doubt it will be *much* noisier. Cat's as a rule are noisier though, and
each of us has their own threshold on what they can stand.
> b) The ZR 700 is a new model...bugs expected,
The ZR is not new. It is the old 700 with flatside carbs and a newer Cat
clutch. All that in a 2 year old chassis with 1 year old bodywork. Nothing new
except flatside carbs. The 700 engine is a very good mill. Less HP than the Pol
?? We hear 115 hp.....we won't know till the snow flies. It will not be left
very far behind for sure.
> c) The ZR 700 will feel "front heavy" & bulky.
No ZR i have ever ridden felt "front heavy". Has he ridden one, if do ask him
when. It is however heavier than the XC, whill you be able to feel the
difference ??
>
> His comments clinched my decision. He didn't even bring up the Yamaha
> name.
> Interesting!!!
I can't argue that the XC is a fine sled. We know what that can do. The
new/old Cat was a fine runner 3 or 4 years ago, but is it up to the task now ??
What ever someone says it is pure speculation until we get them on the snow.
I don't think you could go wrong with either sled.
>
> -Kim
> 97 GT SE
> 99 XC 700
I hope this is not the same Polaris dealer that was "fixing" your 650 last
season. I wouldn't trust anything from him.
-jeff b
97 ZR580
97 ZL440
00 XC??? (we'll see??)
bossman
>
> I was still undecided of which of these gems to buy for this coming
> winter....until I talked to a local Cat/Yamaha dealer last week. He
> asked me what my reasoning was for purchasing either sled. I said, in a
> nutshell:
>
> a) trail comfort,
> b) ease of use,
> c) to smoke my SKIDOO 700
>
> He told me I'd be better off with the XC 700. Why? Two reasons:
>
>
Did not hear first hand the 700zr but the xc I have, and it is louder
than
most,would be hard for me to believe the zr would be any louder.As far
as the
new model bugs count on it, seems they all have trouble accomplishing
this.
Finally the comment about the front feeling heavy and bulky I don't
know but if
it is it would be the first zr that I ever heard of that was. All the
AC's I've
ever drove were very light and nimble.So I think he was feeding you a
line of BS
however IMHO the xc is a better sled than the zr.
Bossman
Grizzly Adam
>He told me I'd be better off with the XC 700. Why? Two reasons:
>a) The ZR 700 is going to be much noisier,
>b) The ZR 700 is a new model...bugs expected,
>c) The ZR 700 will feel "front heavy" & bulky.
Unless I flunked grade 2 math then a,b,&,c equals three
reasons,
>His comments clinched my decision. He didn't even bring up the Yamaha
>name.
Had you let him bring up the Yamaha name he would have said:
a) The Yamaha's are by far the quietest of the lot
b) The Yamaha's are a proven model
c) The Yamaha's are feathery lite&nimble
>Interesting!!!
Well, If you says so
>-Kim
>97 GT SE
>99 XC 700
Grizzly Adam
To respond via email please remove "nospam" from address
Markus1068
sit on going varoom, varoom in August, waiting for the snow in December. Buy
the one you like to look at, the one that fits you, the one who has a Dealer
you trust and will be there when you need him. Buying the one which is "best
on paper", is not always the "best" decision.
Markus.
>Subject: AC ZR 700 vs. POL XC 700
>From: nospamS...@aol.com (Kim)
>Date: 7/28/98 12:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <6pkup5$4th$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
>
>I was still undecided of which of these gems to buy for this coming
>winter....until I talked to a local Cat/Yamaha dealer last week. He
>asked me what my reasoning was for purchasing either sled. I said, in a
>nutshell:
>
>a) trail comfort,
>b) ease of use,
>c) to smoke my SKIDOO 700
>
>He told me I'd be better off with the XC 700. Why? Two reasons:
>
>a) The ZR 700 is going to be much noisier,
>b) The ZR 700 is a new model...bugs expected,
>c) The ZR 700 will feel "front heavy" & bulky.
>
>His comments clinched my decision. He didn't even bring up the Yamaha
>name.
>Interesting!!!
Greg
Dealer.
Greg
Markus1068 <marku...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199807290302...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
JEFF BOURASSA
Proven chassis
Proven motor
This is one awesome trail sled
Hang on tight & GIV-R-SUM
Nothing wrong with the XC 700 I just feel the ZR 700 is the better
{package}
I could be wrong, but, I DOUBT IT.
Jim&Stacey Turcotte
This is what burns me... Has anyone on this list ridden a 1999 ZR700?
I bet maybe 1 person has if that. Give me a break. The xc700 is a proven
sled, and the Zr700 is brand new. Not all new, but for the most part it
is. And no, I do not ride a polaris or cat....
This message is a prime reason why this newsgroup pretty much sucks
now.
Jim
--
http://www.angelfire.com/me/sledder
"Winter Rules"
ScatCatZL
trev04
(Hey Jeff.....)
The 700 Cat motor was only noisy if you rode it slow (like with the
family). Once you had the rev's up is was real quiet...but that's
when they had two pipes on it.
Chris
(delete * from mail address)
JEFF BARTON/KELLY SERVICES *THINK SNOW* <bar...@eisner.decus.org> wrote in
article <1998Jul28.151231.1@eisner>...
> In article <6pkup5$4th$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, nospamS...@aol.com
(Kim) writes:
> >
> > a) The ZR 700 is going to be much noisier,
>
JEFF BARTON/KELLY SERVICES *THINK SNOW*
>
> (Hey Jeff.....)
>
> The 700 Cat motor was only noisy if you rode it slow (like with the
> family). Once you had the rev's up is was real quiet...but that's
> when they had two pipes on it.
>
> Chris
I don't think you ever rode that one *slow*. Sheesh you had to get Mo a sled
with flames on it just so she could stay in your rear view 8^) 8^) 8^).
The 700 will be a nice sled.....wish I could get one 8^(.
-jeff b.
Bill Davis
The ZR 700 Rules -BIG TIME-
Proven chassis
Proven motor
This is one awesome trail sled
Hang on tight & GIV-R-SUM
Nothing wrong with the XC 700 I just feel the ZR 700 is the better
{package}
I could be wrong, but, I DOUBT IT.
What a comment how can someone say that an unproven sled with a proven
problem motor and clutch set up is way better than a proven been out 2
years and running great sled this is typical web TV brainlessness(is that
a word cause in this case it should be)
Hillboy
FLAME AWAY
Kim
scat...@aol.com (ScatCatZL) writes:
> THE ZR700 RULES
People....people.....people....
I was looking for some info from someone who's ridden BOTH newer sleds,
and can give some honest comparisons. It doesn't do me any good to
hear from a diehard CAT fan, or a diehard POLARIS fan....no objectivity
there.
WEisserer
year zr 600...
Pretty nice that cat had plenty of motors on hand at cat dealerships across
the country last year...
food for thought..
Iceman
JEFF BARTON/KELLY SERVICES *THINK SNOW*
Well it is pretty safe to say that no one here has ridden the 99 ZR700 since
it is brand new. Lots of us have ridden a 700 Cat, but the ZR chassis of 97
thru 99 is pretty different (better I think) than that of 96 and before.
All you can do is *hope* you make the right decision.
If I were buying today, and it was going to be a 700 twin. The choice between
the Polaris and the Cat is tough. The Polaris may have the edge in HP, but
handling would go to the Cat. Go where the dealer is best. I'd probably get the
Polaris since my dealer sells Cat and Polaris 8^) 8^)
Good luck......
-jeff b.
trev04
If someone here had ridden one of the new sleds it would have been
a proto...which doesn't mean anything anyway because things change
by the time they go into production.
Besides, what'd you expect?
BTW - Did the unbiased dealer ride the ZR700?
Chris
--
(delete * from mail address)
Kim <nospamS...@aol.com> wrote in article
<6pq1hu$nko$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>...
Trina Brada
I can offer an unbiased OPINION, since I am a Yamaha fan. If it was me, I
would probably choose the Polaris. It is a torque-monster from what I have
heard which means it will launch out of the hole, provided you can hook it
up. I have a couple pals who have had recent AC's which never seemed to
live up to the expectations they had. Plus, Polaris came into the 90's with
the new look, albeit a few years late.
By the way, the reason your dealer did not mention Yamaha was probably
because he is assuming that you are looking for a big twin, which Yamaha
does not have. If he thought you simply wanted 700 cc's of motor, he
probably would have brought up the SX and SRX.
Woody
1998 SRX with the original crank and lots of bent studs!
Mike Robichaud
XC700. When snow flies here, you can bet they'll both be found
at a local airstrip here, "testing" them.Ill be sure to post
some impressions of them, from an "unbiased" standpoint.Stay
tuned!:-)
sgm
"BILL"
Just have to share this information with you. Just talked to my neighbor
who is a mattress salesman for a well respected dealer who spoke to his
ex-brother in-law who knows for sure that his old high school girl
freind married a guy who owns a '78 John Deer (liquifire).He knows
somebody who has a newer sled. WHO knows everything about anything when
it comes to may-tag washing machines. He has assured everyone that the
new '700' cat is without a doubt the most impressive sounding sled ever
marketed in the great white north. He is extemely happy with the look of
the ski's and the delicate detailing to the rear snow flap.
I think this pretty much puts the entire issue to rest.
HOW CAN WE ARGUE WITH LOGIC LIKE THAT!
I'm sure this must clear up the concern over which is a better sled
.................steve..
ps. hows the grass diggen goin?
trev04
Snow? We usually do our "testing" on the grass....
Chris
--
(delete * from mail address)
Mike Robichaud <kermit*@agate.net> wrote in article
<35C1A7DE...@agate.net>...
Markus1068
have similar origins. Very, very funny, I wet myself.
Markus.
>Subject: Re: AC ZR 700 vs. POL XC 700
>From: sgm <steve.@bc.sympatico.ca>
>Date: 7/31/98 10:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <35C1D1...@bc.sympatico.ca>
Chicken
to look at your sled what is the sense of having it? I hear that the ZR's
are really fast but I would never own one just because they are (IN MY
OPINION) ugly. I bought my Polaris XLT SP because I liked the way it
looked, besides alot of my friends have XLT's and they were happy with them.
Sure you might smoke me across the lake but I will always take pride in my
sharp-looking (and did I mention reliable?) Polaris. I also will spend more
time riding trails and enjoying my sled while a lot of you will be making a
million adjustments just to be the first across the lake.
Markus1068 wrote in message
<199807290302...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>Simple, buy whichever one you are most passionate about, the one you want
to
>sit on going varoom, varoom in August, waiting for the snow in December.
Buy
>the one you like to look at, the one that fits you, the one who has a
Dealer
>you trust and will be there when you need him. Buying the one which is
"best
>on paper", is not always the "best" decision.
>
>Markus.
>
>
>>Subject: AC ZR 700 vs. POL XC 700
>>From: nospamS...@aol.com (Kim)
>>Date: 7/28/98 12:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <6pkup5$4th$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
>>
>>I was still undecided of which of these gems to buy for this coming
>>winter....until I talked to a local Cat/Yamaha dealer last week. He
>>asked me what my reasoning was for purchasing either sled. I said, in a
>>nutshell:
>>
>>a) trail comfort,
>>b) ease of use,
>>c) to smoke my SKIDOO 700
>>
>>He told me I'd be better off with the XC 700. Why? Two reasons:
>>
Todd Wangen
guaranteed to happen on every post!!!
Chicken wrote in message ...
Kevin Beilke
> JEFF BOURASSA wrote:
> >
> > The ZR 700 Rules -BIG TIME-
> > Proven chassis
> > Proven motor
> > This is one awesome trail sled
>
> I bet maybe 1 person has if that. Give me a break. The xc700 is a proven
> sled, and the Zr700 is brand new. Not all new, but for the most part it
> is. And no, I do not ride a polaris or cat....
> This message is a prime reason why this newsgroup pretty much sucks
> now.
> Jim
OK Jim, here is your one person. I did ride the ZR 700 prototype, and in March it was
still so raw that other than handling and ride, you really couldn't get much of a feel
for the sled. Yep, it had thick power, but the handlebars still shook and it had no hope
of running with any of the other single pipe 700s that I've spent thousands of miles on.
In the new issue of SnowTech, take a look at the underhood photo of the 700. Isn't that
tin foil wrapped around the pipe? Like I said, raw. And like Michal Hart said, January
is prototype time, not March and surely not June & July. The fact that this sled was not
ready in March should scare all of us.
Insiders at Cat have told me that they are having a time getting a single pipe to do
what they want it to, supposedly on the fifth version of a pipe and still working like
hell to make production. Some racers are even being told that they will not get the 700
they asked for. At least we know that twin pipes work well on this engine.
Seriously, how can we expect this old engine to compete with the offerings of the other
three? It may run OK, but it very likely will not be as good as it should have been. It
is likely a stop gap measure, buying them some time while not letting all of the segment
sales slip away.
And that bit about the AWS-V being the best handling suspension? First you have to keep
the skis on the ground to be able to make that claim..........
Kevin - SnowTech
Bill Davis
what I was trying to tell some of these people.Alot of times buyers just
get hyped and do not look at the big picture(damn salesmen do that to us)
and to here from someone who has hands on from both sleds is great a big
THANK YOU
Hillboy in washington state
MP800
>have to keep
>the skis on the ground to be able to make that claim..........
>
>Kevin - SnowTech
Why do you feel qualified to make that statement on handling? Don't just tell
me you have (blank) many years riding, so I'm an expert. Tell me what you've
done to become such an expert. In other words give me your snowmobiling
resume.
DJP
Shane Zeppelin
MP800 wrote in message <199808031518...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
Excuse me??? Are you baked??? And who are you, DJP??? What's your
snowmobiling resume???
Shane
mark
It's great how everybody is an expert. Experts in the same field should be
able to agree on something.
Or am I wrong?
ZRT ROB
it even beter and put it in the best proven aluminum chassis ever made and by
the way compare wet weight certifed by supertrax ZR-700 575.5 XC700 594
Greg
checked. (previously known as Race & Rally) IMO, This does put him in the
know. And now that we're on the subject of resumes, what's yours DJP???
Greg
MP800 <mp...@aol.com> wrote in article
DaveR
every post.
I am happy as shit to go ride my 94 Jag. I don't know how much more
handling is to be had with these big buck sleds, all I know is my sled
handles 11 times better than my previous 80 panther! I usually ride with
guys that have twice the sled of mine and usually can keep up, in the trails
(get dusted on the open --no shit right?--). It doesn't seem to me to be
the sled that makes them sometimes faster its the balls of the person
riding. (I could be wrong though) A sled would have to handle prettty dam
welll for me to be comfortable going 60mph down a narrow trail thats all
moguls. Dem trees don't care what color the paint is when you come to an
unexpected corner (done that) or the guy in front of you spikes the brakes.
Before everyone gets fired up and tries to tell me that a better handling
sled will help you maneuver these sitiations let me say I agree with you.
With my panther I'd make 3 barrel rolls off the trail and hit the tree, now
I can do it in one! (just joking but probably would be true) Besides all
this bickering makes better sleds for everyone, while the the high-end sleds
get better to keep the whiners with the fat wallets happy the mid-range and
economy sleds get the trickle down and keep getting better as well.
BTW, if I had $7000 I'd be riding one of those sleds too. (cause their
prettier)
mark wrote in message <6q58dv$gcc$1...@news3.mr.net>...
MP800
>know. And now that we're on the subject of resumes, what's yours DJP???
I have been snowmobiling for about thirty years. I have a great
understanding of the workings of a snowmobile. I do not consider myself an
expert and didn't claim to be.
I have been reading the snowmobile magazines for years and have seen a lot
of mistakes and blunders that they have made.
I've always wondered who these people were and why were they qualified to
give their opinion on how a sled performs. Riding a snowmobile for thirty
years does not makle me an expert nor would it be for anyone else.
So who then is an expert in snowmobiling?
Well their are many. How about Kirk Hibbert,
racer, engineer, pioneer, legend. Dennis Zuwalski, Chief Engineer for Arctic
Cat. Gerard Karpik, Racer, innovator, business owner. Jack Struthers Racer,
Business owner and also an innovator. These guys and many more like them are
experts. Be honest with yourself. Riding and understanding how a sled works
is different than riding down the trail and stopping at Hoppy's.
To be an expert on sled performance would require a backround in racing
and engineering.
just my .02
DJP
matt emry
year!!!.....I'm sure I'll understand it once I get past all his typos
Matt
MP800 wrote in message <199808031518...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
sled...@my-dejanews.com
newsgroup. You have good info and in my opinion, although not perfect, I
still think you have the best magazine at telling it like it is!
Brian Rasmussen
Kevin Beilke <edi...@racerally.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> OK Jim, here is your one person. I did ride the ZR 700 prototype, and in March it was still so raw that other than handling and ride, you really couldn't get much of a feel for the sled. Yep, it had thick power, but the handlebars still shook and it had no hope of running with any of the other single pipe 700s that I've spent thousands of miles on. In the new issue of SnowTech, take a look at the underhood photo of the 700. Isn't that tin foil wrapped around the pipe? Like I said, raw. And like Michal Hart said, January is prototype time, not March and surely not June & July. The fact that this sled was not ready in March should scare all of us.
Insiders at Cat have told me that they are having a time getting a single
pipe to do what they want it to, supposedly on the fifth version of a pipe
and still working like hell to make production. Some racers are even being
told that they will not get the 700 they asked for. At least we know that
twin pipes work well on this engine.
Seriously, how can we expect this old engine to compete with the offerings of
the other three? It may run OK, but it very likely will not be as good as it
should have been. It is likely a stop gap measure, buying them some time
while not letting all of the segment sales slip away.
And that bit about the AWS-V being the best handling suspension? First you
have to keep the skis on the ground to be able to make that claim..........
Kevin - SnowTech
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Trina Brada
slamming A/C for releasing a product to be test ridden that maybe shouldn't
have been.
And for MPclueless, I would think that in thirty years of sledding you
would have grasped the concept of his magazine and others. They are to give
you, me and everyone else an impression of how these sleds perform. I don't
ever remember it being called "Race & Engineering Technical Journal." I
have talked to Kevin only once at the Michigan Show and he never told me he
was an expert, but I believe he would fill the qualifications more
completely than most.
If you still think that Kirk Hibbert is the only person worth your time then
try keeping quiet until he contacts you, then speak up. We would like to
hear his opinion too.
Senor Woody
trev04
Hey, it's a proto....
Last year we heard the speculation about the missing horsepower
of the ZR600 in the late summer/early fall....and it turned out okay.
Maybe it'll be a dud from the factory but most anyone that will buy
that sled (you know the type) will make to go just fine...all of the raw
material is there (big motor, light chassis, green paint and yes, AWS IV
(some of us have already figured out how to keep the ski's on the ground))
...I mean, you don't expect it to show up with the right clutching, do
you?
Yeh, I know, for x thousands of dollars it should be a turnkey
sled.....yeh,
yeh, yeh....
Chris
--
(delete * from mail address)
Trina Brada <Woody...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<6q7tn5$3...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
Mark Schmitz
ScatCatZL wrote in message
<199807300107...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>THE ZR700 RULES
Turk
protos!
trev04 wrote:
> If someone here had ridden one of the new sleds it would have been
> a proto...which doesn't mean anything anyway because things change
> by the time they go into production.
>
> Besides, what'd you expect?
>
> BTW - Did the unbiased dealer ride the ZR700?
>
> Chris
>
> --
> (delete * from mail address)
>
Kim
> So who then is an expert in snowmobiling?
--------------------------------------------------
My additional 2 cents worth (pardon the typos...it's early):
In spirit, we are all experts....experts of our own personal sleds. WHo
else - besides your mechanic - knows your sled better than you? You
know its little quirks, and its limits.
When I read -in the sled rags - about how this sled compairs with that
sled, I always wonder in what spirit is the test being conducted?
In other words, did the tester just ride 1 sled around for a while, hop
off, write a review, and call it a day, or did the tester ride the
other (similar) sleds, comparing each to the other? In what kind of
course? For example, we know that a sled will respond differently on a
groomed trail then it will sidehilling in the deep powder of the
Rockies.
From my perspective, a review of one particular sled (with the reviewer
not riding the comparable sleds) is next to useless. Without comparing
sleds, every sled is great in it's own way. One question they don't
ask the reviewer is "have you ridden a better sled (then the one you
just reviewed), and why is it better?"
I'd like to hear from an "all-brands expert/tester". If I met one, I'd
ask him/her : "If you were building your own sled from scratch, which
manufacturer would the parts come from?" Would the answer be something
like: "A/C brakes, Polaris Chassis, Yamaha....."???
-Kim
(still rambling in NH)
'99 Polaris XC700 (it's official! My banker is beyond thrilled.)
'97 Grand Touring SE
'90 Polaris Indy 650 (trading in - boohoo)
JEFF BARTON/KELLY SERVICES *THINK SNOW*
Yup....should be. Bottom line is that it was a proto. Kevin told us it was
rough. How rough was that MXZ600????
You can't judge much of anything from a March proto ride. Makes for nice
pictures in a magazine though.
The only way you find out if the 700 Cat is a good sled is after a season of
riding, or this coming March.
The 700 will be fine......there is nothing new about it, And I bet the Skis
will stay on the ground too. Most Cat riders have figured that out.
-jeff b.
>
> Hey, it's a proto....
>
> Last year we heard the speculation about the missing horsepower
> of the ZR600 in the late summer/early fall....and it turned out okay.
>
> Maybe it'll be a dud from the factory but most anyone that will buy
> that sled (you know the type) will make to go just fine...all of the raw
> material is there (big motor, light chassis, green paint and yes, AWS IV
> (some of us have already figured out how to keep the ski's on the ground))
> ...I mean, you don't expect it to show up with the right clutching, do
> you?
>
> Yeh, I know, for x thousands of dollars it should be a turnkey
> sled.....yeh,
> yeh, yeh....
>
> Chris
> --
> (delete * from mail address)
>
>
sled...@yahoo.com
> Why do you feel qualified to make that statement on handling? Don't just tell
> me you have (blank) many years riding, so I'm an expert. Tell me what you've
> done to become such an expert. In other words give me your snowmobiling
> resume.
> DJP
Hey Dill Head, hes the editor of one of the largest Magazines out there. If
anyone in here is a voice to be listened to, I would name it to be Kevin.
MP800
>anyone in here is a voice to be listened to, I would name it to be Kevin.
I don't believe I ever said anything bad about Kevin I just wanted to know who
he is and why he is an authority. Just because he is an editor DOES NOT MAKE
HIM AN EXPERT.
He may be an expert, I just wanted to know what he's done to become one. Dill
Head.
Bob Alger
tune in the end of March (The end of the snowmobiling season, and the end of
testing on snow season). Also, the base engine may be the same old 700, but,
it has different carbs, clutches, and pipe. That may as well be a whole new
engine from a tuners point of view. I think Kevin has a legitimate gripe, if
it was not ready by the end of March how much better can we expect it to be
by the end of summer? Sure, it will probably be better than the prototype ,
but we know the setup will not have had a lot of trail time.
And in regards to the hp of the zr600. How is it we all settled for the 105
hp version? I seem to remember hearing number between 110 and 120 hp in the
year previous to it's release. So now use the same logic applied to the 700.
I know I won't be happy with a 700 if it ends up around 110 hp.
Maybe I'm just getting cynical in my old age.
Bob Alger
JEFF BARTON/KELLY SERVICES *THINK SNOW* wrote in message
<1998Aug5.073624.1@eisner>...
sled...@yahoo.com
> I don't believe I ever said anything bad about Kevin I just wanted to know who
> he is and why he is an authority. Just because he is an editor DOES NOT MAKE
> HIM AN EXPERT.
> He may be an expert, I just wanted to know what he's done to become one. Dill
> Head.
Your attitude was inapropriate.
Many of us want other magazine editors, and factory officiandos to contribute
to this newsgroup. I dont like seeing people giving crap out like "yeah, well
what do you know!" after they post, its discouraging.
If you knew who Kevin was when you posted then why would you ask for his
resume? And what makes an expert an expert? Someone who deals with and rides
snowmobiles every day FOR A LIVING in my opinion is an expert. Kevin has
ridden more miles on more machines than most of us will ever be able to.
SledPilot
Trina Brada
read kevin's message again, then read it again and then maybe one more time.
now, on careful review, count the number of times kevin calls himself an
expert. (write that number down) now, tally up the times that he calls
himself an authority. (write that down and add it to the first number)
Take the sum of those two numbers and multiply it by the number of test
rides that a factory asked you to do. Now, that number may not be too big
yet so add the number of articles that you have written about any snowmobile
that people have paid to read.
The grand total should be your ranking on being able to qualify someone as
an expert.
1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest.
If you are ranking at a 2 or higher, my apologies. If not, extend your
apologies to kevin and hope he speaks up again. Alot of what he may say on
this newsgroup may not appear in his magazine.
Senor Woody
trev04
I know very little about the man....I have no reason to think that
he is not a knowledgeable person. I believe that he has ridden the
proto's and has alot of information that we currently don't have
access to.
But, have you ever read anything in a magazine you didn't agree with?
Can we have a different opinion about anything snowmobiling? Do you
think we will scare him away?
I'm sure Kevin is a great guy, but let's not grovel (too much).
Chris
--
(delete * from mail address)
Trina Brada <Woody...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<6qg66r$a...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
Chadek AO
agree with me! All those of training and experience that do not are biased or
misinterpreting the facts. If one has no training or experience and does not
agree with me you are just an uninformed *****.
Works this way in the court too.
Mike Dominick
>I am able to designate EXPERTNESS. It is a talent I just was born >with.
Experts agree with me!
> If one has no training or experience and does not
>agree with me you are just an uninformed *****.
You say if one has no training or experience and does not agree with me you
are just informed?
Are you a genetic scientist and know everything there is to know about the
brain?
Well if not the you too are just "uninformed*******" and your opinions on
EXPERTNESS have no basis. Show us some Experts that agree and I will show
you more "uninformed" people.
How can you be born with EXPERTNESS? You can be born with physical gifts
and with mental potential but you cannot be born with knowledge, if that
was the case why would be study history? We would be born with the
knowledge.
I believe everyone when born has the potential to be experts but based on
the environment you are brought up in and your own desires experiences and
education you have is what will end telling if you a true Expert.
Mike
97 MXZ 583
Chadek AO wrote in message
<199808081122...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
MP800
>apologies to kevin and hope he speaks up again. Alot of what he may say on
>this newsgroup may not appear in his magazine.
>
>Senor Woody
>
>
Holy cow Senor Woody, all I asked for was a little insight in Kevin's
backround. The Newsgroup decided I was slanted against him.
When you make a statement such as he did you should expect to get flamed. As
for him not appearing in this newsgroup; if that keeps him form replying than
he is too thinskinned for the sport of snowmobiling.
Since everyone believes I challenged Kevin here I go. Lets get to what he
said about the handling of the ZR 700. He said that in order to be considered
a good handling sled, one must keep the skis on the ground. I do understand
that the zr will carry the skis every time you crack the throttle with the
current setup. However, if a person would just adjust the factory adjustment
straps with the eyebolts provided, you will see the ski lift dissapear and get
tremendous cornering ability. That adjustment is the easy to do, yet most
people don't bother. This is the same principle that the "knob" on the zr 440
uses. You are simply changing track and ski pressure.
Now I'm assuming this is what Kevin meant by ski lift. If it was, he has
the responsibility to relay this information to us. This type of information
is more valuable to us as a whole than to blast a generic stock setting, as
being inferior. The whole point is that every sled is set up generically and
all can perform well in different circumstances. It is the EXPERTS
responsibility to relay this information to the masses. What would you rather
hear if you owned a ZR? A fix or a flame job.
My intention was to find out a little about Kevin. Which I still don't
believe was wrong. If I offended Kevin I apologize, but his comments were
flame worthy. While I'm at it I'll apologize to Kevin's brother Senor Woody as
well.
DJP
Michael Hart
trev04 wrote in message <01bdbffc$82ced9e0$2ec320cc@default>...
>
> Hey, it's a proto....
>
> Last year we heard the speculation about the missing horsepower
> of the ZR600 in the late summer/early fall....and it turned out okay.
And....
No gas mileage complaints? No vibration, No breakdowns? and BTW while they
ran good they were not exactly what was promised by Cat. And surely not top
of the class powerwise.
Yeah the 600's were rough around the edges and now we seem to be hearing the
same kind of development problems with the 700? What did Cat claim it would
make 115hp?
Michael Hart
Bob Alger wrote in message <35c9ac63.0@news>...
>engine from a tuners point of view. I think Kevin has a legitimate gripe,
if
>it was not ready by the end of March how much better can we expect it to be
>by the end of summer? Sure, it will probably be better than the prototype ,
>but we know the setup will not have had a lot of trail time.
The problem most guys here don't grasp is the lead time prior to production.
This is not like some shop taking a couple weeks to order parts and play
trial and error for a single sled. Sure, it sounds like the same old 700
(and might vibrate like it) but all the tuning makes it starting from
scratch. And it has to be reliable! Warranty costs can kill the bottomline.
(remember bottomline was a loser for last year anyway) They will approach
from the safe side I'm sure...
Now it sure looks to me like they are scrambling very late in the game. That
doesn't mean they can't come from behind but the word longshot starts coming
to mind. Longshots can come in! Oddsmakers out there???
Trina Brada
schedule now that it becomes press time for him and the staff again. I am
sure he has other things he could be doing other than dropping in on this
newsgroup and I hope he still finds time to participate, even though his
postings draw some 'flame' when it is not warranted. I don't really
consider it grovelling, but it is nice to hear from someone who may be a
little bit more unbiased than the rest of us. There is alot of personal
opinions floating around this newsgroup and as long as they aren't too
antagonistic, I don't think many people pay alot of attention to it. It's
nice that we have all of this brand loyalty. But for those who are familiar
with Kevin and his work, it was an ignorant challenge to question his
credentials. I certainly won't cry if he says something bad about my SRX, I
like the sled but realize it's not from utopia. (now if they gave it a paint
scheme like a ZR then it may be perfect)
I wish Kevin was my brother, then I would get his magazine for free.
By the way, I did read something in a magazine I didn't agree with. Someone
said that the paint scheme on my SRX looked nice. I don't agree with that,
it looks like shit... but I got over it.
Senor Woody
wvernon
> No gas mileage complaints? No vibration, No breakdowns?
>
particular has me baffled. Both of my sleds ran like a raped ape last
winter and embarrassed any of your beloved XC600's, particularly in
holeshot. Let's not even talk about how much better the Cat's handle.
The recall is a pain in the ass though.
trev04
Michael Hart <mwh...@execpc.com> wrote in article
<6qijtr$b...@newsops.execpc.com>...
That's the second time someone posted 115hp....I never heard anything from
Cat
claiming 115hp (maybe someone can quote me something to prove me wrong).
The only reason I mentioned the "missing horsepower" that was it was in the
Fall
issue of SnowTech...and, from my point of view, the 600 motor from the
standpoint
of power turned out okay....and the Fall is alot later than March. I was
trying to
make a subtle point..... not that the machine was top of class on the
dyno....although
more than one magazine (not Kevin's) name it top of class overall. But
hell, that
was probably based on proto's.
Chris
JT440
writes:
>
>How can you be born with EXPERTNESS? You can be born with physical gifts
>and with mental potential but you cannot be born with knowledge, if that
>was the case why would be study history? We would be born with the
>knowledge.
>
>I believe everyone when born has the potential to be experts but based on
>the environment you are brought up in and your own desires experiences and
>education you have is what will end telling if you a true Expert.
>
>Mike
>97 MXZ 583
>
>
>Chadek AO wrote in message
><199808081122...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>>I am able to designate EXPERTNESS. It is a talent I just was born with.
>Experts
>>agree with me! All those of training and experience that do not are biased
>or
>>misinterpreting the facts. If one has no training or experience and does
>not
>>agree with me you are just an uninformed *****.
>>Works this way in the court too.
>
>
>
>
Ummmm.... Mike it was a joke, "expertness" is not a real word. please adjust
your sense of humor :-) <-- That was a joke too :-)
John T.
JT...@aol.com
Michael Hart
trev04 wrote in message <01bdc351$fe82e380$24c320cc@default>...
>That's the second time someone posted 115hp....I never heard anything from
>Cat
>claiming 115hp (maybe someone can quote me something to prove me wrong).
I'm sorry the 115 is bandied about for the 700. Yes Cat actually claimed
that.
As for the 600's the number was expected to be 110 and fell a bit short.
More embarrassing was some of the 500's ran darn near as good.
Michael Hart
wvernon wrote in message <35CD157C...@home.com>...
>Michael Hart wrote:
>> No gas mileage complaints? No vibration, No breakdowns?
>>
>particular has me baffled. Both of my sleds ran like a raped ape last
>winter and embarrassed any of your beloved XC600's, particularly in
>holeshot. Let's not even talk about how much better the Cat's handle.
>The recall is a pain in the ass though.
I guess that is an observation I have not witnessed.
j...@ms.com
Are the people on this newsgroup suffering from heatstroke???
Trina, please forgive me for STRONGLY disagreeing with your opinions,
and for quoting you to help me make my points....
I have NO idea who this Kevin guy is, couldn't locate the post which
started this thread, but, two years ago I subscribed to all the sno rags
I could find. I found almost -all- of the articles loaded with obvious
bias,
and the technical posts were way to often (30%? 40%) loaded with
incorrect if not downright dangerous information. I have let all my
subscriptions run out-and I REALLY enjoy reading!
It has become ludicrous how badly the media do their jobs (I hold to
the idea that the media should report the news, to make the consumers
life better-not to do what is needed to attract advertising dollars.)
Trina Brada wrote in message <6qj29l$b...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>I don't really
>consider it grovelling, but it is nice to hear from someone who may be a
>little bit more unbiased than the rest of us. There is alot of personal
>opinions floating
Yeah, but it is SO easy to see and filter out the 13 year-old's posts.
Trina Brada
There are alot of strong opinions coming from other than 13 yr olds and
if they are so easy to spot, why are you having a hard time finding the post
from this guy named "Kevin"?
I'll give you a hint, it is a message with the name "Kevin Bielke" as
the author.
Don't ask for forgiveness in disagreeing with me. I doubt either you
or I will lose any sleep over it. I don't imagine everything Kevin writes
is gospel, but to me, his magazine is top notch. That would be "Race &
Rally SnoTech". If you haven't browsed it, pick a copy up when they hit the
newstands. You might like it.
Senor Woody
Joel Trandahl
Dynotech printed 118 peak hp on a stock '92 Wildcat. Thats with milder
porting than the latest ZR version, 40mm round Mikuni's and twin pipes. I'll
try to dig up the article to verify it.
Joel Trandahl
Welcome to the group.
Mike Luckhardt
Mike
sled...@yahoo.com
> As for the 600's the number was expected to be 110 and fell a bit short.
> More embarrassing was some of the 500's ran darn near as good.
Depends how you see it. They could be embarrased that there 600 is neck and
neck with there 500's THey could also be damn proud how well there 500 works.
Bill
better low end and midrange and almost 30 lbs. less to the 114hp wildcat.
Bill
Joel Trandahl <jo...@ciprico.com> wrote in article
<6qn3g3$2c3$1...@shadow.skypoint.net>...