5 fatalities in the last week
mike sullivan
There have been a rash of horrible snowmobile accidents in MN in just
the last week. Two of these occurred on residential streets for crying
out loud! A 19 year old, according to the newspaper account, lost
control at app 60mph trying to avoid a car. He went airborn over a bank
and hit a parked car, dying of head and neck injuries.
Sunday eveining, a 15 year old girl was killed walking on a street with
her twin sister and other friends. Apparently hit from behind, her shoes
were left where she was standing. The sled driver is in critical
condition.
The others were as needless. A 12 year old boy drove off a trail and
into a truck. An 18 year old hit a bank on the lakeshore, was thrown off
and hit a tree. The last, a 37 year old male, ran into a tree. MN has a
total of 12 snowmobile fatalities so far this year. Alcohol was involved
in at least some of these tragedies.
I bring this up to point out the need for responsible sledding. The
sport suffers in the arena of public opinion already among many people.
Every time some alcohol impaired ass gets on a sled he/she is risking
the future of their sport. It becomes easy for people to paint all with
that broad brush of irresponsibility. As they say, if the sport doesn't
clean itself up, the state will. We would be better off doing it
ourselves. We all know that entire groups can be labeled by the actions
of a few. Please let's all drive responsibly.
Mike
SnowDuster
I had written the following post off line and when I went to post it
Mike had already posted but, anyway here is my version.
As of this morning there have been 12 snowmobile related deaths in
Minnesota. The latest reported was 15 year old Stacy Schlosser who was
walking with her twin sister and a group of friends on a street in East
Bethel when she was struck by a snowmobile driven by 42 year old Randall
Winger. Winger is in critical condition with a broken neck and other
injuries. Stacy was his so hard that her shoes and sock were left were
she was standing. High speed was a factor and investigators said they
suspect that Winger had been drinking. Blood test results were not
released.
Her death was the fifth snowmobile-related death in the past week in
Minnesota. Twelve people have died in such accidents so far this season
in the state.
Most such accidents happen at night and involve alcohol and young men
who are speeding, said Patty Holt, who keeps track of snowmobile
statistics for the Minnesota DNR. "Slow down, avoid alcohol and be
aware of surroundings" is the best advise for snowmobilers, Holt said.
Others killed this week are:
12 year old Brandon Beavens of Askov, MN
Killed when hit by a pick-up truck as he drove off of a trail and onto
Hwy. 23 North of Askov.
19 year old Barry Ertl, Dayton (Speed and possible drinking)
Died from head and neck injuries after hitting a car while racing on a
city street with another snowmobile early Sunday morning in Champlin, MN
18 year old Jonathan Rabe, Lakeville, MN (Speed)
Died from head and neck injuries after hitting a bank on Lake Marion
near Lakeville, he was thrown from his machine and struck a tree on
Thursday night.
37 Year old Daniel McMann of Duluth, MN (Speed)
Killed around noon on Saturday when his machine left the Hemantown Trail
just north of Duluth and struck a tree. Daniel was a well known stock
car race driver in the Duluth area.
I don't have details on the other seven deaths but you can be sure that
the story would be the same. SPEED, DARKNESS, ALCOHOL AND YOUNG.
All the accidents are tragic but the death of Stacy Schlosser is an
unbelievably tragic thing that is very difficult to comprehend. It not
only wiped out a wonderful young girl's life and left a badly injured
rider, but it makes all snowmobilers look bad. I sometimes personally
have a hard time with the fact that a sport so much enjoyed by me has
within it a group of irresponsible individuals that ride with no regard
for other peoples lives, safety and happiness. This minority in our
sport is going to destroy it as we know it today. When a person is run
down on a street as they are walking along minding their own business it
is bound to have a detrimental effect on snowmobiling. A lot of the
chatter on RSS is about how they can get their sled to go faster. Why
is it so important to go so almighty damned fast that the sleds are no
more that a projectiles. I see what is written by Stig Arne Bye about
Norway's regulations. Well guys, how would you like some of the same.
Keep it up and I promise you that what it will eventually will come to.
We could end up with something like 25 mph speed limits, no riding after
sundown, nothing over so much horse power or restrictions on engine
size.
Please be careful, stay off roads, slow down, don't drink. Snowmobiling
doesn't have to be a race.
The following message was posted by Stig Arne Bye on November 13, 1996.
Some of the regulations listed are now the law and some of the proposed
regulations are the result of over regulation. That is a good example
of what power a government has to protect its people. It may not be
that we ever see this kind of control in this country and I don't know
exactly why Norway is so tuff on snowmobiles but anyhow read it and give
it all some thought.
Restrictions on snowmobiling in Norway
--------------------------------------
In the entire country, except Svalbard, use of snowmobiles is generally
prohibited by law (!), but the law gives general exceptions for official
services, rescue operations and for those who need to use a snowmobile
in work etc.
Whenever a private person, or someone else not covered by the exceptions
given in the law, want to use a snowmobile, one must apply the
authorities for a special dispensation application.
In a such apply one must exactly specify the date, duration and the
purpose of why you need to use a snowmobile, and in order to give the
authorities time to process the apply, one must normally apply several
weeks before the planned trip. So taking an impulsive snowmobile-trip,
lets say the upcoming weekend, may be difficult!
In addition, if a such apply is granted by the authorities (normally,
more than 50% are NOT granted!), the dispensation application is also
given a limited validity, usually for one time use only, and when
expired you must apply for a new one.
And if this isn't enough, in most areas, you may only apply for a
dispensation application a limited number of times per year!
If one ride a snowmobile without a such dispensation application, or if
one isn't covered by the exceptions given in the law, and if one is get
caught by the police, who often patrols the areas, one may be punished.
Dependent on the situation, you will get a penalty fee that use to be
from NOK 3,000 (approx. US$ 400) to NOK 5,000 (approx. US$ 650) each
time you are caught! And if you refuse to pay that penalty fee, you
may, in worst case, end up in prison!
Even if use of snowmobiles in Norway is generally prohibited by law,
there are some "open areas":
In the county Finnmark and some part of Troms (and some other smaller
areas), special snowmobile-tracks has been made. In these tracks one
may use snowmobiles at any time and for any purpose, without having to
apply for a dispensation application every time one want to take a ride
on the snowmobile. Personally, I live in the county Finnmark, so I'm
privileged to use these snowmobile-tracks (actually, in the county
Finnmark we have about 2,500 km of public roads and about 4,200 km of
snowmobile-tracks in the winter!).
Although these special snowmobile-tracks may be used freely, there are
some restrictions to them:
The tracks is defined to be 30 meters (33 yards) wide, and you have to
keep within this limit. If you drive outside this limit, you break the
law, and may be punished the same way as if you were caught without a
dispensation application (see above). However, many police officers
often looks through their fingers in many situations by just giving a
warning that you must get back in the tracks.
In addition to the restrictions already mentioned, here are a few other
restrictions on snowmobile riding that also applies in Norway:
*** From May 5 to June 30, any use of snowmobiles, except for public
services and rescue operations etc., is totally forbidden, and this
restriction also applies to the special snowmobile-tracks
mentioned, except for a few of these snowmobile-tracks held open
until the snow goes away. During this time period, obtaining an
individual dispensation application may be almost impossible.
*** Use of snowmobiles on public roads is totally forbidden, except
that you may cross public roads using the shortest way possible.
Other proposed regulations (not accomplished or partly accomplished)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
In addition to the restrictions mentioned, Norwegian authorities have,
during the last years, also proposed several other regulations. These
are in order to try to reduce the danger and accidents involved in
snowmobile riding.
Some of them are really funny (if you ask me) and have caused a lot of
amusement between snowmobile riders in Norway, whilst others are, or may
be, good for the purpose.
Here are some of the proposals that I have heard the last years:
*** Compulsory use of crash helmets by law enforcement.
Currently, use of crash helmets when riding a snowmobile is not
compulsory by law enforcement here in Norway, as is when riding a
motorcycle.
This proposal is really good for the purpose and may be a good
contribution to reduce injuries (personally, I have always used a
crash helmet when riding snowmobiles since 1986).
*** Speed limits when riding a snowmobile.
There has been a proposal on speed limits when riding a snow-
mobile. The latest proposal I've heard is;
-- maximum 50 km/h (31 mph) when riding single, and
-- maximum 30 km/t (19 mph) when riding with passenger(s)
and/or when dragging a sledge behind the snowmobile.
*** Maximum engine size/power limit.
There has been a proposal on maximum engine size/power limit.
I have not heard any exact figures, but there has been talking
around of a maximum engine size/power limit of 500 cc and/or 65 hp.
*** Always dragging a sledge behind the snowmobile.
This proposal is that one ALWAYS must drag a sledge behind the
snowmobile, no matter if the sledge is completely empty or not!
The intention is that when always dragging a sledge behind the
snowmobile, you cannot ride so fast (who says I can't!!!), thus
reducing accidents caused by high speed.
*** Increased age limit for riding a snowmobile with age steps towards
driving more powerful snowmobiles.
Currently, any person aged 16 years and above may obtain a driving
licensee for snowmobiles here in Norway. As the person then may go
directly on to driving the most powerful machines on the market,
many persons want to increase this age limit.
In addition, there is a proposal for age steps towards driving
larger snowmobiles. I have not heard any exact age steps, but the
intention is that you must ride a small powered snowmobile in a
number of years before you may advance to a more powerful one, and
so on.
*** Use of a pole, about 2 meters high, with a small red flag on the
top mounted on the snowmobile.
The intention should be to make it easier to locate one another
snowmobile driving towards you in the same track when passing over
the top of a hill.
But what about when you have to pass under a low tree or in similar
situations???
*** Use of hand guards on the steering bar (similar to those used on
motocross bikes).
The intention should be to protect the hands in case of a
turn-over, but how many keeps their hands firm to the steering
handles until the turn-over has stopped???
This may of course give some protection to the hands in case
of smaller trees etc. scratching the hands during normal ride.
As you see, it is interesting to see what's happening in the future.
Probably you agree with me that some of these proposals are really
funny, but this is for sure: The persons making all these proposals is
persons working in the different departments in Oslo (the capital city
of Norway) and most of them have, as I have heard, never ever ridden a
snowmobile themselves (wonder if they actually have seen one too)!
Snowduster
SnowDuster
Here is the new release for one of the accidents.
Dayton man is state's latest snowmobile fatality
Chris Graves / Star Tribune
A 19-year-old Dayton man was killed instantly when the snowmobile he
was driving at high speed slammed into a parked car in a residential
part of Champlin early Sunday, police said.
Barry Ertl was the third victim in as many days to die in Minnesota
snowmobile accidents.Police said Ertl and a friend were northbound on
Zane Circle near 115th Av. N., racing each other and traveling in excess
of 60 miles per hour just after midnight when a car turned onto the
street. The other rider's machine was deflected off the car, pushing
Ertl's snowmobile up onto a snowbank. Ertl's machine was airborne for
about 50 yards before it hit a parked car in front a home at which Ertl
had earlier attended a party, said Champlin police Sgt. Jim Kurtz.
Ertl died of blunt-force head and neck injuries, according to the
Hennepin County medical examiner's office. Last year, the city of
Champlin considered banning snowmobiles in the city, but it elected not
to do so, Kurtz said. They are supposed to be driven on the shoulder at
no more than 15 mph. Alcohol was not a factor in Ertl's death, Kurtz
said. Nor was it a factor in the snowmobile death of stock car race
driver Daniel McMann, 37, who was killed around noon Saturday just north
of Duluth. McMann apparently lost control of his machine, which left the
trail and struck a tree. McMann, who lived in Rice Lake Township near
Duluth, died at the scene.
In nearly 20 years of stock-car racing, McMann became known as a winner
of championships in the Twin Ports and on the Iron Range and as half of
a racing duo with his brother, Tim McMann. "He was fun-loving, he
worked hard at his job, he loved racing -- all types of racing," Tim
McMann said. Alcohol, combined with speed, is believed to have
contributed to the death of Jonathan Rabe, 18, of Lakeville, who died
Friday at St. Paul-Ramsey
Force1
<SNIP>
>All the accidents are tragic but the death of Stacy Schlosser is an
>unbelievably tragic thing that is very difficult to comprehend. It not
>only wiped out a wonderful young girl's life and left a badly injured
>rider, but it makes all snowmobilers look bad. I sometimes personally
>have a hard time with the fact that a sport so much enjoyed by me has
>within it a group of irresponsible individuals that ride with no regard
>for other peoples lives, safety and happiness.
<SNIP>
Well, I had a big long response for this one, but after reading it, I
realized that the people here at RSS already know about all the things
I had written and most here at RSS are probably not the problem.
So, how come we continue to let this stuff happen? We see the near
misses. We know which people in our group drink and ride. We know
which people in our group ride too fast for the conditions. We know
which people show momentary lapses in common sense while riding.
How come we can't figure out how to tell these people to ride right
or give it up? If it continues, we will all end up giving it up.
Force1
Stig Arne Bye
As more than half of SnowDusters reply to Mike Sullivans poster was
quoted from my poster dated November 13, 1996, I want to give some
additonal informations to some of the items from my poster concerning
the situation in Norway, and to possibly give some "flesh on the bone"
to what SnowDuster said: "... I don't know exactly why Norway is so tuff
on snowmobiles ..."
This may also be compared to the situation you have, and the reasons
behind some of those tragic, and of course needless, fatalities you
recently had.
Riding on public roads
======================
In Norway, riding snowmobiles on public roads is totally forbidden,
except you may cross public roads using the shortest way possible.
This is a *direct* result of all accidents occurred in Norway, and most
of them fatalities.
In Norway, a public road is defined to be the driving lane itself plus
the shoulder and ditch area to a boundary of 8 meters outside the
driving lane on either side.
Riding a snowmobile on public roads has been forbidden for several
years, and prior to last season we could ride on the shoulders and in
the ditch area even if this actually is part of a public road as per the
definition above.
However, as the number of severe accidents still were high, any snow-
mobile riding on the shoulders and in the ditch area were prohibited
last sesason (evaluation period) and became permanent from this season
in most areas. The shoulder and ditch area should now serve as a safety
zone between any part of a snowmobile trail and the driving lane as I've
also illustrated with this drawing:
|<-- Safety Zone (8 meter wide -->|<-- Minimum distance
| according to the definition | (8 m) between any
| of a public road) where any | snowmobile trail
| snowmobile riding is | and driving lane
| forbidden | of public roads
_______________ ______________________
(driving lane) \_________________________________/ (snowmobile trail)
(shoulder and ditch area)
If you ride a snowmobile within the safety zone, this is concidered, and
may also be punished, as if you were riding in the driving lane itself,
except those places where it is allowed to cross a public road.
This regulation forced some rerouting of the trails where these were
following the ditches, but not without other safety problems to occur
due to bad planning (hopefully changed before this season).
One bad example: Last season, I was about to be hit by a car two times
in two different occasions when crossing a road, because the trail
crossing were located right in the middle of a sharp curve.
Speed related accidents
=======================
There are currently three proposals for new regulations as a direct
result of snowmobile accidents where high speed is the main cause:
1. Speed limit in trails.
The latest proposal is:
- maximum 50 km/h (31 mph) when riding single.
- maximum 30 km/h (19 mph) when riding with passenger(s) and/or
when pulling a sledge.
2. Maximum engine size or power limit of snowmobiles.
As I've heard (no exact details known), this proposal is a
maximum engine size of 500 ccm or a maximum power limit of 65 hp.
3. Always pulling a sledge.
This proposal is that one *always* must pull a sledge, no matter
if the sledge is completely empty or not!
The intention is that when always pulling a sledge, you cannot
ride so fast.
Concerning accidents by speed, my personal opinion is that the trail
conditions may be a large factor. Large, wide, open and groomed trails
is almost begging you to push your right thumb to the bottom, with the
conciderable increased risk of severe accidents that follows.
If my informations is correct, this trail description is very much how
most of the trails are in North-America.
In my local area, most of the trails are narrow with alot of curves and
you very often have to sneak around and between trees with only a few
inches clearance on either sides (I can just take a look at all the
scratches on the outer side of the front suspension covers on my snow-
mobile), and none of our trails are groomed either.
Due to this, it's simply impossible to maintain high speed in most of
the trails. In fact, on one of the most used trails in my local area,
I've calculated my own average speed to about 43 km/h (27 mph) when
riding this trail.
Also as a result of this, there hasn't been any snowmobile fatality for
the past 10 years in my local community, even if my local community is
ranged as number two in Norway when counting how many snowmobiles there
are in each of the 411 communities in Norway with snowmobiles currently
registered.
OTOH, we have other areas in my country with open and wide trails, where
you can keep an almost unlimited speed, but it's also in these areas the
majority of all serious snowmobile accidents, fatalities included,
during the past years has happened.
Concerning engine sizes, from all posters on RSS I've noticed that most
of the snowmobiles you have in North-America is sized above 500 ccm.
We have some of these large snowmobiles in Norway too, but the majority
of snowmobiles is between 300 and 499 ccm, as you'll see from the
following simple graphic based on latest official data extracted from
the Norwegian vehicle registry (in Norway, all snowmobiles has to be
registered no matter where they are used etc.):
Percentage of total number of snowmobiles in Norway
Engine 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
size (ccm) | | | | | | | | | |
---------- --------------------------------------------------
500 - *********** 21.5%
300 - 499 ****************************** 59.5%
- 299 ********** 19.0%
Alcohol related accidents
=========================
In Norway, driving any vehicle, including snowmobiles, intoxicated by
alcohol is totally forbidden and is also concidered as a very serious
case due to the fatal consequences this may cause, not only to the
driver itself but also to other persons that may be involved.
The police give priority to try to deal with this by having frequent
alcohol tests of drivers, and they also request for any tip of
intoxicated driving.
However, drinking and driving is not a large problem in Norway, as only
about 2% give a positive alcohol test.
The current limit for alcohol in the blood is 0.05%, but there is a
proposal for reducing this limit to 0.01%.
If you're caught on a snowmobile (or any other vehicle) and you are
intoxicated above the limit, you'll get an automatic driving licence
suspension for ONE YEAR without exceptions, and may be sentenced to
prison for up to 2 years!
So if you are caught at the end of the current snowmobiling season,
you'll have to say bye-bye to the next years snowmobiling season too!
If you're caught a second time intoxicated above the limit, then you'll
get a licence suspension for MINIMUM ONE YEAR up to TWO YEARS, and may
be sentenced to prison for up to 5 years!
If you're caught several times, the licence suspension may be FOR EVER,
and of course ____ (fill in the blank) snowmobiling seasons spoiled!
Personally, I do also see the subject drinking and driving from one
another point of view, as I'm a board member (fifth year in row) of the
local division of the second largest motorist organization in Norway, MA
or Motorfoerernes Avholdsforbund (english: The Non-Drinking Motorist
Association), and have therefore seen several examples of the result of
intoxicated driving, and have also contributed to alot of campaigns
concerning the subject alcohol and driving.
Age related accidents
=====================
There are currently two proposals for new regulations as a direct result
of snowmobile accidents where young riders were involved, most of them
aged about 20 or below and were riding some of the largest snowmobiles
available:
1. Increased age limit.
Currently, any person aged 16 years and above may obtain a driving
licence valid for snowmobiles, and many persons do therefore want
to increase this limit.
2. Age steps towards riding larger snowmobiles.
I have not heard any exact age steps, but the intention is that you
must ride a small powered snowmobile in a number of years before
you may advance to a more powerful one, and so on.
This is equal to a similar proposal for motorcycles recently
accomplished and will be effective from March 1, 1997.
Both these are also a result of the following fact:
The most popular driving licence for young persons during the past years
is a driving licence valid for tractors, as this may be obtained at 16
years age. Although this driving licence is primarily for tractors
only, it does also give full right to ride any kind of snowmobiles
without any practise and/or safety training in riding snowmobiles prior
to riding them.
Other safety concerns
=====================
There is a proposal for compulsory use of helmets when riding a
snowmobile, similar to when riding a motorcycle.
So far this season we have had one snowmobile fatality. This fatality
happened at low speed, no drinking, experienced rider and in daylight.
The rider died on scene from severe head injuries only, and a helmet
could therefore have saved his life.
Head injuries are also common injuries in snowmobile accidents, as most
of these cause either minor or major head injuries.
Personally, I know that a helmet is worth the investment, as I've been
thrown off a snowmobile myself at about 50-60 km/h and hit the trail
with my head.
General opinions
================
[Mike Sullivan wrote in the original poster]
> I bring this up to point out the need for responsible sledding. The
> sport suffers in the arena of public opinion already among many
> people.
> Every time some alcohol impaired ass gets on a sled he/she is risking
> the future of their sport. It becomes easy for people to paint all
> with that broad brush of irresponsibility. As they say, if the sport
> doesn't clean itself up, the state will. We would be better off doing
> it ourselves. We all know that entire groups can be labeled by the
> actions of a few. Please let's all drive responsibly.
[SnowDuster wrote in the reply poster]
> All the accidents are tragic but the death of Stacy Schlosser is an
> unbelievably tragic thing that is very difficult to comprehend. It
> not only wiped out a wonderful young girl's life and left a badly
> injured rider, but it makes all snowmobilers look bad. I sometimes
> personally have a hard time with the fact that a sport so much enjoyed
> by me has within it a group of irresponsible individuals that ride
> with no regard for other peoples lives, safety and happiness. This
> minority in our sport is going to destroy it as we know it today.
> When a person is run down on a street as they are walking along
> minding their own business it is bound to have a detrimental effect on
> snowmobiling.
This is just what's about to happen in Norway. If fact, many of the
currect regulations, and the proposals for new regulations, is mostly a
result of a minority of snowmobilers causing accidents and other bad
opinion against snowmobiling amongst people in general.
As a result, the authorities enter the scene and does not only punish
the persons responsible for this bad opinion, but push alot of new
regulations onto all of us snowmobilers, causing alot of abusement.
If my informations is correct, in MN, as only one of the states in
U.S.A., there is about 15,000 miles of trails and about 250,000
snowmobiles.
To compare, throughout Norway we have a total of about 4,000 miles of
trails and about 40,000 snowmobiles.
Norway is therefore a small country concerning snowmobiling compared to
other countries, and the limit of how much regulations this sport can
handle before snowmobiling is about to be wiped permanently off the map
is almost reached.
Just take the latest proposal as an example, publicized only a month ago
but (fortunately) not accomplished yet, where the authorities want to
reduce the total number and length of snowmobile trails in Norway with
about 30%, leaving us left with something about 2,800 miles of trails in
total.
Finally, I just want to repeat exactly what SnowDuster wrote:
Please be careful, stay off roads, slow down, don't drink. Snowmobiling
doesn't have to be a race.
Stig Arne Bye
Kirkenes, Norway
92 Yamaha VT 480 TF/E (Venture)
I hereby state that my nasty, old school English, with a lot of
grammatical errors, misspelled words, incorrect words, incorrect use of
commas, etc. is just as good as some the English I've seen written by
people who graduated from school in an English-speaking country.
Therefore, I will NOT apologize for possible errors in *my* English!
************************************************************************
* Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world! *
************************************************************************
Tom Avery
mike sullivan <msu...@pclink.com> wrote:
>There have been a rash of horrible snowmobile accidents in MN in just
>the last week. Two of these occurred on residential streets for crying
>out loud! A 19 year old, according to the newspaper account, lost
>control at app 60mph trying to avoid a car. He went airborn over a bank
>and hit a parked car, dying of head and neck injuries.
>Sunday eveining, a 15 year old girl was killed walking on a street with
>her twin sister and other friends. Apparently hit from behind, her shoes
>were left where she was standing. The sled driver is in critical
>condition.
>The others were as needless. A 12 year old boy drove off a trail and
>into a truck. An 18 year old hit a bank on the lakeshore, was thrown off
>and hit a tree. The last, a 37 year old male, ran into a tree. MN has a
>total of 12 snowmobile fatalities so far this year. Alcohol was involved
>in at least some of these tragedies.
>I bring this up to point out the need for responsible sledding. The
>sport suffers in the arena of public opinion already among many people.
>Every time some alcohol impaired ass gets on a sled he/she is risking
>the future of their sport. It becomes easy for people to paint all with
>that broad brush of irresponsibility.
I think the more responsible action would be to point out how small a
percentage of the people are hurt. Call the papers on this by writing
letters to the editor, when they issue untrue generalities. You
implied that alcohol was involved in all or most of the accidents,
when it clearly was not. I think we should also call the papers on it,
when they make a big deal out of snowmobile deaths, and not all the
other recreational sport deaths, or even highway deaths, or murders.
After all, how many murders were there in Mlps this year, or even this
month?? The 99% of the good actors have to stand up for the sport.
Hell, 12 deaths, is just one good multi-car accident......
TA
--
Tom Avery
97 Ultra SP
95 XLT Special
80something Kitty Kat (turbo'd, nitrous'd, Hemi V-8)
'Unofficial' Gates Rubber Test Pilot
xtra...@ix.netcom.com
Don&Liz
that 12 deathes are no big deal? or the fact that a person that is not
in the sport got killed is no big deal? Or are you comparing a
recreational sport with everyday living things like driving to work or
living in Mlps. I think that we need to do something real fast! I really
like to ride the trails and do the things that I do but every time I get
ran off the trail on a corner cause some idiot can not slow down to stay
on his side of the trail endangering my self along with any of the other
riders on the trail it really upsets me! Or when I hear that a young
child weather in the sport or not gets killed in a SNOWMOBILE realated
acciddent. This upsets me. Nothing is worth the loss of a life! Even if
the person who does gets killed was responsible for the act... I think
that it is up to each and every one of us to play a part in help setting
up the guidline on the sleding before someone else does it for us and
makes us all so unhappy that we give up the sport. I recently bought my
93 XLT with the studed track. It is much more of a machine than I would
ever need and will be very disappointed if Some law maker comes up and
says " Don your sled is to big by law and those studs have to go,
Sorry". The Group of guys that I run with make it a rule NOT to drink
and sled. The sleds go away and the booze will come out. It is common
curtiousy<sp> for them, the one that they ride with and the rest that
are on the trails.
That is my buck250 worth
Don
93XLT Special
mike sullivan
> I think the more responsible action would be to point out how small a
> percentage of the people are hurt. Call the papers on this by writing
> letters to the editor, when they issue untrue generalities. You
> implied that alcohol was involved in all or most of the accidents,
> when it clearly was not. I think we should also call the papers on it,
> when they make a big deal out of snowmobile deaths, and not all the
> other recreational sport deaths, or even highway deaths, or murders.
> After all, how many murders were there in Mlps this year, or even this
> month?? The 99% of the good actors have to stand up for the sport.
>
> Hell, 12 deaths, is just one good multi-car accident......
>
> TA
> --
> Tom Avery
> 97 Ultra SP
> 95 XLT Special
> 80something Kitty Kat (turbo'd, nitrous'd, Hemi V-8)
> 'Unofficial' Gates Rubber Test Pilot
> xtra...@ix.netcom.com
Well Tom, I think your response is probably one of the most
irresponsible statements I have ever heard an adult make. This issue has
nothing to do with the number of murders in Mpls or anywhere else. Just
one good multi car accident?
Me thinks you would do more to help your sport by keeping quiet.
Mike
Shane Zeppelin
I don't think Tom was trying to lessen the fact that death is tragic, I
think the point was the fact that because a SNOWMOBILE was involved that
the news plays it up as a tragic headline beyond the norm. Just like an
airline crash or the Space Shuttle accident, they don't happen very often.
Car accidents happen every day and so do shootings and cancer deaths and
war and all these tragedies <sp?>, but the news doesn't play these deaths
up as much as something they really want to regulate like guns and
snowmobiles.
Death is tragic for all of us who feel for the families and the victims. I
can't even imagine the pain it must be to have seriously injured or killed
someone with a snowmobile (or gun while hunting). It scares me sometimes
to think the few close calls I've had, hitting an unexpected rock or
braking too late and nearly hitting a sled in front of me, but it also
scares me to think that because of publicity the freedom of choice, to
choose to ride or not, could be taken from me. And let's face it, when you
can't use studs or have a sled over 500 cc's or have to go 30 mph or can't
ride on public land or can't ride after dark, there is no choice. Most of
us simply wouldn't ride.
Self regulation is almost too late. The new congress is starting now in
January with items on the adgenda that deal with snowmobiling. We need to
let our congress know that we intend to keep the sport alive! In another
post I will mention our congressmen's names and numbers and why we should
contact them. For now, we should consider that all of the deaths had to do
with driver error. This means slow down, don't drink and ride (or drive),
and use our common sense. And why are there people riding down city
streets 60 mph at night? STUPID!!!
When I started snowmobiling, I started on a 1969 Ski-Doo Olimpique 250
single popper. I started 17 years ago on that. I had to fix to ride.
When I bought my 1991 Polaris Indy 500, it was my first (and only since)
new sled. Boy, what a difference. But because of my past experience with
sleds, I had respect for it. Now, young kids are getting their first ever
sled and it is a new ZR or XCR or MXZ. They never had to fix to ride.
These same kids were (now I'm generalizing) probably the same ones who were
the cause to regulate 3-wheelers out of production. We all know that it is
the responsibility of the parents not to let their kids ride these things,
but nope, it's always someone elses fault (the manufacturer's) that "my boy
was killed because of your 3-wheeler".
I only hope that the 12 tragic deaths in Minnesota caused by 12 registered
snowmobilers of the 290,000 registered snowmobilers in Minnesota isn't the
cause of more regulation in Minnesota.
Oh, by the way, I burned mine down today so I'm out of commission for the
next few days :-)
--
Shane Zeppelin :-)
Litchfield, Mn
mike sullivan <msu...@pclink.com> wrote in article
<32C73A...@pclink.com>...
FITTAPA175
as everyone else said these twelve deaths or tragic beyond believe but
when really comes down to it, if you really want to ease the publics mind
on this issue, they should report the details on some of these accidants
for example: does driving a snowmobile at 1:00 a.m. in the morning after
14 cocktails at 90 miles per hour through a ten foot wide trail twisting
through the trees and knowing the driver was his first season ever on a
sled and than striking something or someone and killing himself really
just a normal thing that happens to everyday snowmobilers
I DONT THINK SO , REPORT THE FACTS
PJS MOTOR SPORTS
RIDE WITH A CLEAR HEAD
sloan
Finally, somebody says what I've been thinking. You are not going to
reach the idiots with this message. They can't read, for one thing, and
even if they had someone read them the message, they would just laugh it
off.
For some people, including me 10 years ago, the only way to learn is the
hard way. Very luckily for me, the lesson only cost me a bent ski,
broken wind shield and sore fingers.
Snowmobiles can be very dangerous. They can also be safe, if you are
watching out for your own neck and watching out for the mistakes of the
idiot who is about to meet you at the next corner.