ZRT 600 JETTING
SpunkyT21
Thanks
Doug Ritter
: Please list any jetting changes that work well.
I'm running 290 mains with a single dial-a-jet on each carb.
At the middle dial-a-jet setting, it's perfect at about +20f.
That would translate to 310s without the dial-a-jet. And I
have the jet needle e-clip on the second notch.
This is with a fresh engine, it may change after it is broken
in.
--
Doug Ritter
do...@datalytics.com
Scott Willis
>--
>Doug Ritter
>do...@datalytics.com
I've gotta get one of those things, yesterday I ran from 8400 feet to
about 9500 feet and started out really cold, (????? on exact degrees)
and ended the day rather warm. My Zirt didn't want to run at all in
the morning in the cold and very gradually as the ambient air temp.
increased, it started running better. I'm running 250 mains now and
that is too fat. With the dial-a-jet, probably about what? 210's or
less?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Willis sco...@konnections.com [or] sco...@mail.kdcol.com
'96 ZRT600 Mountain Cat for me,
'96 ZRT600 Mountain Cat for the wife.
Northern Utah
(Should've bought her a Powder Special)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Ritter
: I've gotta get one of those things, yesterday I ran from 8400 feet to
: about 9500 feet and started out really cold, (????? on exact degrees)
: and ended the day rather warm. My Zirt didn't want to run at all in
: the morning in the cold and very gradually as the ambient air temp.
: increased, it started running better. I'm running 250 mains now and
: that is too fat. With the dial-a-jet, probably about what? 210's or
: less?
The instructions say to drop 2 main jet sizes but they also say to get
it jetted properly before you do. If 230s are optimum without a Dial-
a-Jet, then, yeah, 210s would be right.
Are you running an EGT guage?
--
Doug Ritter
do...@datalytics.com
Tom Avery
writes:
> I've gotta get one of those things, yesterday I ran from 8400
feet to
>about 9500 feet and started out really cold, (????? on exact degrees)
>and ended the day rather warm. My Zirt didn't want to run at all in
>the morning in the cold and very gradually as the ambient air temp.
>increased, it started running better. I'm running 250 mains now and
>that is too fat. With the dial-a-jet, probably about what? 210's or
>less?
>
Scott,
Let me get this straight. The sled runs better at higher altitudes,
and warmer temp??? Right - REJET NOW!!! Before you melt down!!!
As you go warmer, there is less O2, and therefore the mixture is
getting richer!!
As you go higher, there is less O2, and therefore the mixture is
getting richer!!
This means you are too lean when you start out!!!
DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!!!!
I surprised that you didn't hurt the engine already.
For Mountain riding the D/J is typically setup for the coldest temp,
and lowest altitude combo that you are going to ride. You want the D/J
to be set full rich. Then as temps climb, or you climb, you can stop
and lean the mixture down to compensate, and keep the sled running at
its' peak performance!
I have installed a Dial-a-Jet, and triple EGT's. Based on some bad
recommendations, I had the jetting way off. It was easy to see which
cylinder was how far off.
First run had the PTO @600-800'F, Center at 400, and the Mag at stone
cold. Turned out that I had goofed up the needle on two of the carbs,
and had the E-clip above the little metal plate instead of under it.
Guess which two carbs?! Next run was much better with all cylinders
in the 800-1000 range. It is going to be easy to see exactly what
effect each change is making at every throttle opening condition. A lot
of people run different main jets, but most run the same needle jet,
and clip position. As widely varied as some of the Polaris Main jet
rec.s are, I believe that the needle clip, and needle jet size may also
need to be varied as well. With the triple EGT's it will be very easy
to tell what is going on!!
Ramble Mode Off:
Later,
TA
Tom Avery
Got the Skidoo not a mystery Video in the mail today, Sat. 12/29.
By now we all know what is one the video, but I thought I'd point
out a couple things. If you want to be surprised when yours arrives,
Don't read any farther.
Of course it is a MX Z 670, with a single pipe.
Video starts off with Toni Haikonen and some good riding shots.
Then, our own Kevin Beilke of Race and Rally!!!!
Kevin - you need a new hat :)
Then a cast of other snowmobile rags.
I never thought I'd hear the words CrackJack & Snowmobile
used in same sentence!!
Then the closing "MX Z 670 Strike Force"
All in all pretty well done, but too short.
Also, I want to hear the original sound tracks complete
with engines roaring, rather than music!!
TA
Scott Willis
>DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!!!!
>Ramble Mode Off:
>Later,
>TA
Turn that Ramble Mode back on, I'm learning and I like it !!!
O.K., so I need EGT's. I've got "EGT's" catalog somewhere in a pile of
sled literature. Is that the best place and brand of EGT's to get?
How much is the cheapest and most compact I can get into a set of
triple guages?
Scott.
TAvery4448
Willis) writes:
> Turn that Ramble Mode back on, I'm learning and I like it !!!
>
>O.K., so I need EGT's. I've got "EGT's" catalog somewhere in a pile of
>sled literature. Is that the best place and brand of EGT's to get?
>How much is the cheapest and most compact I can get into a set of
>triple guages?
> Scott.
>
>
EGT is Exhaust Gas Temperature. HPE and others carry the gauges. Westech
is the brand of gauge I have. HPE, etc. also have single gauge and triple
gauge pods for Indys. The triple gauge pod holds three 2" dia. gauges. It
screws to the top of the instrument pod. Still fits under even the short
windshield. You'll have to check what they have for Kats. With an
electric fuel gauge, speedo, & tach, plus warning lights in the pod, and
triple gauges on top, it is starting to look like an airplane cockpit.
Dan C. convinced me that I should get the triple gauges. He has installed
one on his 707, and really would rather have the triple gauge setup I now
have. If you need to go cheap, get one gauge, and three probes (you have
to buy these seperately). Then switch between probes. Gauges should run
about $40-60 each for a single gauge. There is a dual gauge that looks
pretty good. The triple gauge has too small of numbers, and needles to be
able to read it. Realize that when you are trying to tune the high end,
you are talking about full throttle runs for a 1/2 mile or so!!!
I bought the heavy duty SLP gauges. They are warrrantied for 3 years. They
are $30-40 each. You should get a specific temperature, and position
recommendation from someone who knows Cats. The position is how far from
the exhaust flange you go to mount them. typical is 6-8". You will get
some generic info with the gauge. The XCR SP/Ultra motor has a water
cooled exhaust port. So the EGT temps are lower than the XLT. The
difference is ~200'F!!!
TA
Craig Cleasby
>you are talking about full throttle runs for a 1/2 mile or so!!!
The mileage adds up quick at 100 mph, no wonder you guys ride over 1000
miles a year.
>I bought the heavy duty SLP gauges. They are warrrantied for 3 years.
They
>are $30-40 each. You should get a specific temperature, and position
>recommendation from someone who knows Cats. The position is how far
from
>the exhaust flange you go to mount them. typical is 6-8". You will get
>some generic info with the gauge. The XCR SP/Ultra motor has a water
>cooled exhaust port. So the EGT temps are lower than the XLT. The
>difference is ~200'F!!!
>
>TA
How far out did you mount the probe ?
Did you run these gauges with stock carb set up before you put your
dial a jets in ?
I now have almost three hundred miles on the 96 xlt special and have
concluded that it is way to rich. I think it has 260 s in it now any
recommendations as to rejet ?
TIA
Craig.
TAvery4448
Cleasby ) writes:
>Tom What range gauges did you get for your XLT ?
I think they are all the same. 400-1600'F
>How far out did you mount the probe ?
With a single pipe you can run one right at each exhaust port.
Or you can run one between the y and the ball joint where
the exhaust pipe connects to the exhaust manifold. If
you have triple pipes, you can put them out past the header connection.
>Did you run these gauges with stock carb set up before you put your
>dial a jets in ?
No, Actually I made a bunch of mods simultaneously.
>
>I now have almost three hundred miles on the 96 xlt special and have
>concluded that it is way to rich. I think it has 260 s in it now any
>recommendations as to rejet ?
>
Go down one main jet size at a time. Read your plugs as you go.
If you don't have a dial-a-jet, then you don't want to get to close
to the edge, or you will have to jet up, everytime it gets colder..
There are significant differences between the 95 and 96 XLT Special
motors. I don't know that the EGT temps rec.s are the same. I have 34mm
carbs, and you have 38mm carbs for example.
TA
Scott Willis
>Got the Skidoo not a mystery Video in the mail today, Sat. 12/29.
>By now we all know what is on the video, but I thought I'd point
>out a couple things.
>Of course it is a MX Z 670, with a single pipe.
>Video starts off with Toni Haikonen and some good riding shots.
>Then, our own Kevin Beilke of Race and Rally!!!!
>Kevin - you need a new hat :)
But Kev did a good job, huh?
>Then a cast of other snowmobile rags.
>I never thought I'd hear the words CrackJack & Snowmobile
>used in same sentence!!
Yea, no kidding . . . silly.
>All in all pretty well done, but too short.
Yea, great video. I got mine today (01/05/96) I also thought it was
too short. What a great sled though. Really nice !!!!!
Scott.
Scott Willis sco...@konnections.com [or] sco...@mail.kdcol.com
'96 Zirt 6 for me. Northern Utah.
'96 Zirt 6 for the wife. (should've bought her a Powder Special)
Byron Sheppard
>I'm running 290 mains with a single dial-a-jet on each carb.
>At the middle dial-a-jet setting, it's perfect at about +20f.
>That would translate to 310s without the dial-a-jet. And I
>have the jet needle e-clip on the second notch.
>This is with a fresh engine, it may change after it is broken
>in.
>--
>Doug Ritter
>do...@datalytics.com
Doug,
What are the failure modes of the Dial-A-Jet? Do you (or anyone)
know?
For example, if that that little mixer box (whatever it's called) gets
plugged with belt dust what happens? Or if it ice's up from powder
snow what happens?
Or if the fuel inlet (from the bottom of the carb) ices up from water
in the fuel what happens?
I've been reluctant to install the Dial-A-Jet's since it's not obvious
(to me) that it fails in a failsafe way.
Having main jets that are lean and require a working Dial-A-Jet to
keep from burning the engine down seems intuitively risky to me...
All that aside, how have you found the Dail-A-Jets? Any noticeable
performance enhancements? How did it affect that famous ZRT low-end
bog?
Byron Sheppard
Vancouver BC.
95 EXT Powder Special
93 Panther
Tom Avery
writes:
>xtra...@ix.netcom.com(Tom Avery ) wrote:
>
>>Got the Skidoo not a mystery Video in the mail today, Sat. 12/29.
>
>>By now we all know what is on the video, but I thought I'd point
>>out a couple things.
>
Got to ride this mean machine over the weekend. See my Postings on PSA
Rodeo Report for the details. It is nice!! Tons of power from the get
go. Light weight. I think for midwest trail riding you could just add
studs, and SLP skis, and go!! If you figure on $6999 list for next
year, and about $6000 to 6600 for sno-check it will be tough to pass up
for those in the market!!
TA
SLaMunion
the dealer I got mine from in Pennellville, NY (the 96 mxz583 and Formula
Z were going for $5299). I suspect that the spring break price will be
close to the $6000 mark.
Steve LaMunion
Manager of Operations, Bombardier-ATI. Auburn, NY U.S.A.
96 Formula SS
Tom Avery
writes:
>
> Hey TA, I got to ride the MXZ-670 last Friday, this one had a 2"
>Camoplast on it in 121". This made this machine very squirley going
>up the hill because it was hooking so much and at only 502 lbs. the
>skis provided no steering for me. Fun ride though. I love this
>machine. Good looking too.
>Scott.
>
Probably the same thing I posted under 'PSA Rodeo Report'. The MX-Z is
significantly lighter than say an XLT or ZRT. It tends to go with the
terrain more. I noticed that it launched more to the contour of the
terrain, than the direction that you had been going. Fine by me. I just
stood up a little more, and rode it more like a motocross bike than a
sled!!! I would like to have someone post the specs on ski stance, and
overall lenght on the MX-Z, and some other sleds. I would really like
to know what the distance from the ski spindle to the rear of the track
is on these sleds....
TA
Robert Roney
I heard that Cat dealers are calling back ZRT 600's for pipes, carbs and clutches. What's going on????
Anyone know?
Bob Roney
Scott Willis
>Doug,
>What are the failure modes of the Dial-A-Jet? Do you (or anyone)
>know?
>For example, if that that little mixer box (whatever it's called) gets
>plugged with belt dust what happens? Or if it ice's up from powder
>snow what happens?
>Or if the fuel inlet (from the bottom of the carb) ices up from water
>in the fuel what happens?
>I've been reluctant to install the Dial-A-Jet's since it's not obvious
>(to me) that it fails in a failsafe way.
>Having main jets that are lean and require a working Dial-A-Jet to
>keep from burning the engine down seems intuitively risky to me...
>All that aside, how have you found the Dail-A-Jets? Any noticeable
>performance enhancements? How did it affect that famous ZRT low-end
>bog?
>Byron Sheppard
>Vancouver BC.
>95 EXT Powder Special
>93 Panther
Yea Yea Yea, what Byron said . . . . inquireing minds want to know.
Do tell, Doug.
Scott.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Willis sco...@konnections.com
'96 ZRT600 Mountain Cat for me,
'96 ZRT600 Mountain Cat for the wife.
Northern Utah
(Should've bought her a Powder Special)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Willis
>>>Got the Skidoo not a mystery Video in the mail today, Sat. 12/29.
>>
>>>By now we all know what is on the video, but I thought I'd point
>>>out a couple things.
>>
> Got to ride this mean machine over the weekend. See my Postings on PSA
>Rodeo Report for the details. It is nice!! Tons of power from the get
>go. Light weight. I think for midwest trail riding you could just add
>studs, and SLP skis, and go!! If you figure on $6999 list for next
>year, and about $6000 to 6600 for sno-check it will be tough to pass up
>for those in the market!!
>TA
Hey TA, I got to ride the MXZ-670 last Friday, this one had a 2"
Camoplast on it in 121". This made this machine very squirley going
up the hill because it was hooking so much and at only 502 lbs. the
skis provided no steering for me. Fun ride though. I love this
machine. Good looking too.
TAvery4448
Byron_S...@mindlink.bc.ca (Byron Sheppard) writes:
>Doug,
>
I'm not Doug, but I'll give this a shot.
>What are the failure modes of the Dial-A-Jet? Do you (or anyone)
>know?
>
>For example, if that that little mixer box (whatever it's called) gets
>plugged with belt dust what happens? Or if it ice's up from powder
>snow what happens?
>
The dial on top has five holes. The largest hole, flows the most air, and
is
the leanest setting. So I am going to assume that plugged is even richer.
This could be tested by turning the dial inbetween to holes. The little
detents
are hard to see, and sometimes hard to feel. I think during some of tuning
on the trails, that I have inadvertantly got the dial, not quite right.
>Or if the fuel inlet (from the bottom of the carb) ices up from water
>in the fuel what happens?
The system is supposed to be self purging. Should require more
water/ice than what it would take to clog a main jet. You are pulling fuel
off with a 1/16 I.D. (1/8 hose) line.
>
>I've been reluctant to install the Dial-A-Jet's since it's not obvious
>(to me) that it fails in a failsafe way.
>
Doesn't seem to be any worse than a standard carb.
>Having main jets that are lean and require a working Dial-A-Jet to
>keep from burning the engine down seems intuitively risky to me...
>
It's really pretty simple. Seems to be hard to make it fail.
>All that aside, how have you found the Dail-A-Jets? Any noticeable
>performance enhancements?
I'm still playing with it yet.
>How did it affect that famous ZRT low-end bog?
Don't own a ZRT... :)
Byron - You should get the Race and Rally articles on it and read them
thoroughly. They will convince you. The Winter 95 issue has an article on
fuel vaporization that talks about D/J. There was an article this fall,
and two earlier articles (one in 94, and one in 95). Order the back issues
of R&R. I did, and it was worth it.
TA
Doug Ritter
: Byron_S...@mindlink.bc.ca (Byron Sheppard) wrote to Doug Ritter:
: >Doug,
: >What are the failure modes of the Dial-A-Jet? Do you (or anyone)
: >know?
The original post still hasn't arrived here. Would have replied
earlier, sorry.
: >For example, if that that little mixer box (whatever it's called) gets
: >plugged with belt dust what happens? Or if it ice's up from powder
: >snow what happens?
The box provides air to mix with the fuel. If it gets clogged, you'll
run rich.
: >Or if the fuel inlet (from the bottom of the carb) ices up from water
: >in the fuel what happens?
You're in deep doo-doo, that's what happens.
I hadn't thought about this, but it sounds to me like you have a valid
concern here. In the product literature, they claim that by draining
out of the very bottom of the float bowl you will get the water out
before it has a chance to freeze. Not sure I'm quite as satisified
with that explanation now.
: >I've been reluctant to install the Dial-A-Jet's since it's not obvious
: >(to me) that it fails in a failsafe way.
: >All that aside, how have you found the Dail-A-Jets? Any noticeable
: >performance enhancements? How did it affect that famous ZRT low-end
: >bog?
The performance boost is noticable, especially in the midrange. I'll
let you know about fuel milage when I get back from my first ride next
week. I expect it to be very good.
The dial-a-jet won't help with the low-end. You gotta make clutching
changes for that.
--
Doug Ritter
do...@datalytics.com
Robert Roney
|> Robert Roney (ron...@apollo.HP.COM) wrote:
|> : Guys,
|>
|> : I heard that Cat dealers are calling back ZRT 600's for pipes, carbs and clutches. What's going on????
|>
|> : Anyone know?
|>
|>
|> Pipes: Cat knows the pipe fit is bad and is alloting 2 hours worth of labor
|> to the dealers for each ZRT 6 they fix. That's all it is supposed to take
|> to get it right. If you know what you're doing and have a bench grinder,
|> you can fit them yourself. Last I heard, they were not doing anything
|> for ZRT owners who did not complain (ie, they won't call you to tell you
|> to bring it in for repairs). According to Dynotech, sleds afflicted
|> with the bad pipe fit loose about 10 HP off the peak and the power peak
|> slips from 8250 to under 8000. Low-end and mid-range power is not
|> affected.
|>
|> Carbs: The factory jetting is *way* too rich and the oil pump is pumping
|> too much oil. No service memos on this that I have heard about, Cat
|> wants them rich to avoid burndowns under warranty, IMO.
|>
|> Clutching: The factory clutching does not provide a great holeshot.
|> There is a service memo relating to this that states "the factory
|> clutching is fine for trail riders" or something to that effect.
|> They will put in 51 gram weights if you complain. I have heard those
|> weights will lead to an over-rev condition. There are lots of good
|> solutions to the clutching, some that I have heard: 1) Black Magic
|> black/purple primary spring and remove one shim from behind the
|> spider - results in a 5000+ engagement; 2) stock primary weight
|> modification by Dakota Performance, remove one shim - 4900 RPM
|> engagement.
|>
|> --
|> Doug Ritter
|> do...@datalytics.com
Doug,
Did Cat ever hear of the phrase "CUSTOMER SATISFACTION" !!!!! and/or "QUALITY"!!
Could be that some of the other manufacturer's may pick up some new customers in the spring!
Bob Roney
Meredith, N.H.
Doug Ritter
Chris Daugherty
There's been a recall on the Comet clutches to replace a bushing (with
a larger one I beleive)...I've seen that notice.
The magazines reported that Cat dealers are getting up to 2 hours to
fix poor fitting and unequal length pipes on the 600's. DynoTech reported
the problem last issue (I think). We've seen the poor hp readings on a
Dyno-Mite and have seen the hp come back up once the pipes have been
fitted. Around 12 hp is not uncommon.
Don't no about the carbs but I haven't tracked 600 service bulletins.
Chris
Chris Daugherty
Robert Roney
|> In <4cu4aq$e...@itchy.itsnet.com> sco...@konnections.com (Scott Willis)
|> writes:
|> >
|> >Camoplast on it in 121". This made this machine very squirley going
|> >up the hill because it was hooking so much and at only 502 lbs. the
|> >skis provided no steering for me. Fun ride though. I love this
|> >machine. Good looking too.
|> >Scott.
|> >
|> significantly lighter than say an XLT or ZRT. It tends to go with the
|> terrain more. I noticed that it launched more to the contour of the
|> terrain, than the direction that you had been going. Fine by me. I just
|> stood up a little more, and rode it more like a motocross bike than a
|> sled!!! I would like to have someone post the specs on ski stance, and
|> overall lenght on the MX-Z, and some other sleds. I would really like
|> to know what the distance from the ski spindle to the rear of the track
|> is on these sleds....
|>
|>
|> TA
|>
I don't have the opportunity to ride deep powder like some of you folks, but I did have a chance to try out a MXZ-670 and found it to be very torquey with alot of low end and mid-range pull. On hard pack snow it will lift the right ski and torque to the left when you hammer it. Also repositioned to clicker on the TRA, primary clutch, to get it to really pull on the torgue curve. Hell-uva trail sled.
Bob Roney
Meredith, N.H.
Byron Sheppard
>In article <4cn8jp$6...@fountain.mindlink.net>,
>Byron_S...@mindlink.bc.ca (Byron Sheppard) writes:
>>.......
>>Or if the fuel inlet (from the bottom of the carb) ices up from water
>>in the fuel what happens?
>The system is supposed to be self purging. Should require more
>water/ice than what it would take to clog a main jet. You are pulling fuel
>off with a 1/16 I.D. (1/8 hose) line.
I was thinking about a case where the sleds been sitting, the water
has accumulated in the bottom of the carb (after all, that's why they
have water traps now-a-days on most carbs) and iced up blocking the
Dial-A-Jet inlet, you start up unaware of this, hit the throttle and
burn down...
This is different than the main jet icing up (I think).
Doug mentioned that they claim the thing is purging the ice away so is
actually safer. I wonder however if that explanation is merely
turning a "bug" into a "feature".
Beats me actually, I dunno.
>>
>>I've been reluctant to install the Dial-A-Jet's since it's not obvious
>>(to me) that it fails in a failsafe way.
>>
>Doesn't seem to be any worse than a standard carb.
You're probably right. Just seems to me that it added a whole new
circuit that could ice up. But maybe it's so unlikely that it's only
relevant to the hopelessly paranoid...
>Having main jets that are lean and require a working Dial-A-Jet to
>>keep from burning the engine down seems intuitively risky to me...
>>
>It's really pretty simple. Seems to be hard to make it fail.
Ya maybe. I haven't looked at ArticCat's new altitude compensating
circuits so maybe it has failure modes that are worse than
Dial-A-Jets.
>>All that aside, how have you found the Dail-A-Jets? Any noticeable
>>performance enhancements?
>I'm still playing with it yet.
Be sure to let us know about things like performance, gas mileage,
setup and of course any lean burndowns!
>Byron - You should get the Race and Rally articles on it and read them
>thoroughly. They will convince you. The Winter 95 issue has an article on
>fuel vaporization that talks about D/J. There was an article this fall,
>and two earlier articles (one in 94, and one in 95). Order the back issues
>of R&R. I did, and it was worth it.
I've just started subscribing to R&R. It's my favorite magazine (and
KB is a good guy) but they tend to "wax a little eloquent" about new
and nifty things without balancing the article with the "critical"
viewpoint. I don't recall the articles considering the potential
problems or downsides that Dial-A-Jet may have. So I don't know if
it doesn't have any downsides or they just didn't think about any...
A long-winded way of saying that I read the article but wasn't quite
convinced to run out and buy them I guess.
Thanks for the response Tom. I'll be keeping an eye on you and Doug
!!
Dan Canfield
>Scott Willis (sco...@konnections.com) wrote:
>: >Or if the fuel inlet (from the bottom of the carb) ices up from water
>: >in the fuel what happens?
>
>
>I hadn't thought about this, but it sounds to me like you have a valid
>concern here. In the product literature, they claim that by draining
>out of the very bottom of the float bowl you will get the water out
>before it has a chance to freeze. Not sure I'm quite as satisified
>with that explanation now.
TA and I came up with a way to improve this. We discussed in length how
he could mount the fuel inlet without having to drill the plugs. What he
did was left the water traps on and T'ed that line with a fuel line
T. Water will collect in the trap below the T as it always has and good
fuel will be available to the DAJ. He got 1/4"-1/4"-1/8" T's from HPE
and used those. Worked great from what he says.
Dan Canfield
da...@park.uvsc.edu
89 Indy 707
89 FJ1200
RP90
=============================================================================
Blank
=============================================================================
Byron Sheppard
>In article <4d0nnd$c...@gold.datalytics.com> dougr@wales (Doug Ritter) writes:
>>Scott Willis (sco...@konnections.com) wrote:
>>: >Or if the fuel inlet (from the bottom of the carb) ices up from water
>>: >in the fuel what happens?
>>
>>You're in deep doo-doo, that's what happens.
>>
>>I hadn't thought about this, but it sounds to me like you have a valid
>>concern here. In the product literature, they claim that by draining
>>out of the very bottom of the float bowl you will get the water out
>>before it has a chance to freeze. Not sure I'm quite as satisified
>>with that explanation now.
>TA and I came up with a way to improve this. We discussed in length how
>he could mount the fuel inlet without having to drill the plugs. What he
>did was left the water traps on and T'ed that line with a fuel line
>T. Water will collect in the trap below the T as it always has and good
>fuel will be available to the DAJ. He got 1/4"-1/4"-1/8" T's from HPE
>and used those. Worked great from what he says.
Smart thinking, Dan ( and TA ! ). Solves that issue I think.
Tom Avery
(Byron Sheppard) writes:
>
>taver...@aol.com (TAvery4448) wrote:
>
>>In article <4cn8jp$6...@fountain.mindlink.net>,
>>Byron_S...@mindlink.bc.ca (Byron Sheppard) writes:
>
>>>.......
water
>>>in the fuel what happens?
>
>>water/ice than what it would take to clog a main jet. You are pulling
fuel
>>off with a 1/16 I.D. (1/8 hose) line.
>
>I was thinking about a case where the sleds been sitting, the water
>has accumulated in the bottom of the carb (after all, that's why they
>have water traps now-a-days on most carbs) and iced up blocking the
>Dial-A-Jet inlet, you start up unaware of this, hit the throttle and
>burn down...
>
>This is different than the main jet icing up (I think).
>
>Doug mentioned that they claim the thing is purging the ice away so is
>actually safer. I wonder however if that explanation is merely
>turning a "bug" into a "feature".
>
>Beats me actually, I dunno.
>
It depends on how you install it. If you tap into the bottom of the
carb, and aren't running water traps, then yes you could get enough
water to freeze the line. But my point was, that if you're not running
water traps to begin with, then you won't need nearly as much water to
plug the main jet, and stick it anyway. The line feeding the dial-a-jet
is what they call a 1/8" fuel line (measures more line 1/16" ID). If
you look at the opening on a main jet, it is much much smaller, and
easier to clog. Even if it is up off the bottom of the bowl, a small
sliver of ice can clog it up, and you will stick the engine. I think it
was Doug Miller who posted about this with his zr700.
The other thing you can do is run both water trap and dial-a-jet. My
Polaris came with water traps. I thought they were 1/4" hose. So I got
a set of 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/8" Tees from HPE. Turns out the water trap is
a 5/16" hose. It is also a heavy black rubber. I used the1/4" clear
fuel line. Makes it easier to see what is in there. Heated the end of
the hose and forced it onto the hose barb end on the carb. It deformed,
and stays fine. Also reused the plug. Made the new water trap line
about 6" total length. Cut it in the middle, and insert the Tee. I have
effectively the same length water trap as stock, before, below the tee
for the dial-a-jet.
The self purging comes from using just the d/j in the bottom of the
carb. Any water that might accumulate, is sucked up and mixed with gas
and injected into the engine. Typically you will not have very much
water in the bottom of the carb at any one time. If not drained, it
tends to accumulate over time. This is where the problem is. So if you
are constantly drawing fuel off the bottom of the bowl, you should in
theory never let enough water build up to be a problem. If you let the
engine just sit for a while, only the water that is actually in the gas
in the carb, can settle out. Any water in the gas tank will stay there
until you run the sled again. Also because the d/j is a load driven
system, the engine is better able to tolerate a little shot of water.
When idling, or even reving the engine without engaging the clutch, it
does not add any fuel.
As far as how it works... I still don't have it dialed in yet. I have
given into the urge to just ride because I have been with others. I
have been making some adjustments along the way. Thurs eve in Gaylord,
I was watching the EGTs while running at 1/2 throttle. Looked like it
was right on the edge on two clyinders. Stopped, got out a flashlight,
and screwdriver, two minor adjustments, and back on the way in about 2
miuntes. I didn't want to run that close to the edge. On Sat. temps
were above 30, and before we started out, I clicked all three d/js one
step leaner. could probably have gone two to three. But like I said I
am still playing with it and don't have the main/needle clip/needle jet
completely figured out. Several people had problems fouling plugs
because of the slow speeds we were running on the trails (conditions
and riders), and the high temps. I would guess that it got to high 30s,
if not over 40. My sled ran fine. I could tell it was still fat, but I
was out of adjustment on one cyl...
So far so good.
>>>
>>>I've been reluctant to install the Dial-A-Jet's since it's not
obvious
>>>(to me) that it fails in a failsafe way.
>>>
>>Doesn't seem to be any worse than a standard carb.
>
>You're probably right. Just seems to me that it added a whole new
>circuit that could ice up. But maybe it's so unlikely that it's only
>relevant to the hopelessly paranoid...
>
>>Having main jets that are lean and require a working Dial-A-Jet to
>>>keep from burning the engine down seems intuitively risky to me...
>>>
>>It's really pretty simple. Seems to be hard to make it fail.
>
>Ya maybe. I haven't looked at ArticCat's new altitude compensating
>circuits so maybe it has failure modes that are worse than
>Dial-A-Jets.
>
>>>All that aside, how have you found the Dail-A-Jets? Any noticeable
>>>performance enhancements?
>
I've made a bunch of mods simultaneously so I can't say for sure. The
big benefit will be, being able to keep the jetting(power) right at or
near the edge regardless of temp/altitude. When others lose power, I
should be able to click the d/j and either keep the power up, or keep
from sticking the engine when others lean out.. :)
TA
Scott Willis
>Pipes: Cat knows the pipe fit is bad and is alloting 2 hours worth of labor
>to the dealers for each ZRT 6 they fix. That's all it is supposed to take
>to get it right. If you know what you're doing and have a bench grinder,
>you can fit them yourself.
Doug, Come on now . . . I know you know better than that.
A *bench grinder*??? Have you seen a set of pipes being modified? Or
seen a set after being modified? The fix cannot be done with a bench
grinder. It's done with a die grinder because the "mod" is on the
inside of the pipe. They have to grind out or cut out 10mm from the
inner lip or inner pipe that is "inside" the pipes at the exhaust port
end of the pipes. Must have been a slip of the fingers at the
keyboard. I'm sure you ment a die grinder, and yes, it can be done at
home if you have a die grinder.
>Carbs: The factory jetting is *way* too rich and the oil pump is pumping
>too much oil. No service memos on this that I have heard about, Cat
>wants them rich to avoid burndowns under warranty, IMO.
Yea, I've noticed this condition. I've adjusted the pump setting on
the wifes and it still blows blue smoke. Mine runs at full throttle
too much to ever blow smoke I guess.
>Clutching: The factory clutching does not provide a great holeshot.
>There is a service memo relating to this that states "the factory
>clutching is fine for trail riders" or something to that effect.
>They will put in 51 gram weights if you complain. I have heard those
>weights will lead to an over-rev condition. There are lots of good
>solutions to the clutching, some that I have heard: 1) Black Magic
>black/purple primary spring and remove one shim from behind the
>spider - results in a 5000+ engagement; 2) stock primary weight
>modification by Dakota Performance, remove one shim - 4900 RPM
>engagement.
Ground mine to 46.0 grams and installed the Cutler's purple/white
spring and engagement is around 5100-5200 and WOT rpm is around
9000-9100. Just right for my pipes. This thing really runs now.
Scott Willis
>Bob,
>There's been a recall on the Comet clutches to replace a bushing (with
>a larger one I beleive)...I've seen that notice.
Comet clutches? I thought we were talking about the ZRT6? The Zirt 6
doesn't come with Comet drive clutches Chris.
Scott Willis
>TA and I came up with a way to improve this. We discussed in length how
>he could mount the fuel inlet without having to drill the plugs. What he
>did was left the water traps on and T'ed that line with a fuel line
>T. Water will collect in the trap below the T as it always has and good
>fuel will be available to the DAJ. He got 1/4"-1/4"-1/8" T's from HPE
>and used those. Worked great from what he says.
Thanks for posting this Dan, good thinking on you and Tom's part.
I think I will mount my DAJ's the same way. Got the T's in my pocket right now.
Thanks,
Scott.
Scott Willis Northern Utah
sco...@konnections.com
Chris Daugherty
had asked about a clutch recall and that recall was directed at the Comet
clutches...haven't seen anything for the Cat clutches.
Chris
Larry A. Kaduce
I'm also considering a Dial-A-Jet for my ZRT 600.
Please let me know how you turn out, and any suggestions or
recommendations you may have.
I'm planning to go to 310 mains with the D/J, so I would have
settings at 310, 320, 330, 340 and 350. At low altitudes, I run
330 mains on days above zero and the stock 360s on below zero
days. Performance is O.K. but with the location of the carbs,
it's a real pain.
Did you change pilot jets, or pilot air screw settings? How
about the needles or clip settings?
Thanks in advance for your reply.
--
Larry A. Kaduce
Mankato, MN
'96 ZRT 600 (1,854 miles so far)
'74 Cheetah (restoration project)
Doug Ritter
: Tom,
: I'm also considering a Dial-A-Jet for my ZRT 600.
: Please let me know how you turn out, and any suggestions or
: recommendations you may have.
: I'm planning to go to 310 mains with the D/J, so I would have
: settings at 310, 320, 330, 340 and 350. At low altitudes, I run
: 330 mains on days above zero and the stock 360s on below zero
: days. Performance is O.K. but with the location of the carbs,
: it's a real pain.
Wow, I dropped to 290 mains when I installed my dial-a-jets.
I don't have an EGT guage installed, although I will soon, but
the sparkplugs are the perfect color on the middle dial-a-jet hole
at +20f, which means I can handle temps down to -6f without
rejetting.
: Did you change pilot jets, or pilot air screw settings? How
: about the needles or clip settings?
Dial-a-jet has no effect on idle, so no pilot jets/air screw
changes are required. I did drop the needles to the second
notch. The instructions say you can drop two notches, but if
I was going to drop that far, I'd go to a smaller needle jet
instead.
The *only* was to be sure is with an EGT guage.
--
Doug Ritter
do...@datalytics.com
Byron Sheppard
>Wow, I dropped to 290 mains when I installed my dial-a-jets.
>I don't have an EGT guage installed, although I will soon, but
>the sparkplugs are the perfect color on the middle dial-a-jet hole
>at +20f, which means I can handle temps down to -6f without
>rejetting.
> <snip>, <snip>....
>The *only* was to be sure is with an EGT guage.
>--
>Doug Ritter
>do...@datalytics.com
I've found that the only way to know the proper EGT temperature
reading on your gauge is to read the spark plugs and note the
temperature that you are happy with...
So, the EGT doesn't really help set up the Dial-A-Jet except that it
is faster if you *already* have EGTs installed and calibrated.
EGTs aren't a cure-all for lean burndown either.. I can't count the
number of people I know who have lean-burned their pistons while
looking right at the EGT gauge. Don't know why exactly... maybe the
lean burn down occurs too quickly for the EGT's to register. I dunno
but it definitely happens.
TD Petro
writes:
>Wow, I dropped to 290 mains when I installed my dial-a-jets.
>I don't have an EGT guage installed, although I will soon, but
>the sparkplugs are the perfect color on the middle dial-a-jet hole
>at +20f, which means I can handle temps down to -6f without
>rejetting.
Just got some back issues of Race and Rally. In Fall 95 article on
Dial-A-Jets, it says "Reading plug color - the typical plug color that you
learn to read is caused by the amount of unburned fuel in the combustion
chamber. Since the Dial-A-Jet is supplying only the fuel needed, the
amount of unburned fuel is less. Therefore, your plugs will look lighter
than normal, and this takes some getting used to. If you use exhaust gas
temperature gauges, trust your gauges. Gradually lean down until you
reach your desired temperature - and when you get there, your plugs will
LOOK very light."
So, maybe you can go even leaner.
Don at TD Petro
Doug Miller
>EGTs aren't a cure-all for lean burndown either.. I can't count the
>number of people I know who have lean-burned their pistons while
>looking right at the EGT gauge. Don't know why exactly... maybe the
>lean burn down occurs too quickly for the EGT's to register. I dunno
>but it definitely happens.
So one guy (a snowmobile guru, IMHO) told me that the only way to know
what the max temperature a particular motor with a particular set of
EGT's is to burn it down a couple of times, then note the temps it
burned down at. Otherwise, use the piston wash method for jetting.
He claims to have one motor that seizes at 1100 indicated, and another
that has alwasy run at 1400 plus and never sizzled.
Seems kind of spendy to me, but I've never had a set of EGT's.
-Doug Miller (ride stock, jet fat, no buy'em piston!)
TAvery4448
Byron_S...@mindlink.bc.ca (Byron Sheppard) writes:
>EGTs aren't a cure-all for lean burndown either.. I can't count the
>number of people I know who have lean-burned their pistons while
>looking right at the EGT gauge. Don't know why exactly... maybe the
>lean burn down occurs too quickly for the EGT's to register. I dunno
>but it definitely happens.
>
>
Byron,
Burn downs can happen for a couple reasons. Usually you are too lean at
WOT. Sometimes long runs tend to raise the temps over time. So after a 1/4
mile you might be fine, but after a mile the temps go up, and you burn it
down...
You can also be too lean at the mid range. Dan Canfield squeaked his 707 a
couple times because it was too lean at mid range. Long run at WOT, got
everything pretty warm, and then as he backed out of the throttle, things
got leaner, and squeek!!
You've got to read the EGT at part, and full throttle both.
The other problem couple be the probes. I have a triple EGT setup, and
bought the SLP heavy duty probe. Comes with a 3 year warranty. The
problem is that it is insulated (to get the 3 yr. life). It does not
register very fast at all. It is probably on the order of a couple
seconds. So yes if the engine heated up, real fast, it could burn down
before the gauge registers. If I were going to do it again, I would get
the standard probe. Eric Seith in Rochester NY, has run the standard
probe, for 2 years (5000 mi) and they are just starting to rattle a bit,
and are on the verge of needing to be replaced. When sitting at idle, he
can rap the throttle, and watch his gauge move, and mine doesn't budge.
Anybody want a good deal on some low mile, heavy duty SLP EGT probes???
While I don't think the EGT is a cure all, there are a couple knowns. The
farther from the exhaust port, the cooler the temp will read. Also,
Aluminum melts at what, 1375F, or something like that. Keep the gauge
below that at full throttle, and you should be safe. Now if you have a
water cooled exhaust port, the max. temp will be much much lower!!!
I do think EGT's are another good tuning tool, that should be used in
conjunction with reading spark plugs, etc. The nice thing is the ability
to quickly spot problems as you are riding.
While trail riding, I felt the engine start to run rough... A quick EGT
glance, showed one cyl. was colder than the other two. It was not stone
cold. So it was probably not elelctrical (or it would have been stone
cold). Also knew which cyl was causing the problem without guessing. A
quick check showed a fouled plug. A change of plugs did not fix the
problem. Now, I've saved who knows how much time trying to figure out what
the problem is. Check compression with the thumb, and it is narrowed to
carb. Turned out to be a throttle cable that had come out...
TA
TA
TA
--
Tom Avery
95 XLT Special
taver...@aol.com