are micro bearings better?
Bas van der Horst
(=greater speed) than the traditional type - it's supposed to make a much
greater difference than the ABEC-* vs ABEC-* comparsions :)
Has anyone experienced this, or is it just another hype?
bas
Bob Cardone
Everyone I have talked to and posts I have read on various web sites
have stated that the microbearings have a very short life. To replace
them with regular 608s, you also have to replace the wheels. I
purposely selected my last skates with regular bearings, since I
typically get many thousands of miles out of a set of bearings, not
hundreds of miles, as is reported with the microbearings.
Bob
Edward Dike, III
Bas van der Horst <bas...@xs4.xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:9eqfn9$gbp$2...@news1.xs4all.nl...
While I have yet to use the set of now rare Baby Bont + bearings I
purchased(saving them for competition), I know of two cases where near new
mini bearings failed after the briefest exposure to water. In one case
several bearings(brand unknown) literally disintegrated shortly after the
skater went through a puddle. In another case, a brief exposure to a wet
trail did them in.
They are lighter than 608's; from Ninja's web page:
http://www.ninjaskate.com/e_mini.html
"...weighing only 3.6 grams versus 12 grams for the average skate
bearing...".
My calculations show that to be approx 6 oz lighter for a pair of 5
wheelers.
I don't put much stock in ABEC ratings as being useful for judging skate
bearing performance. That said, I am not aware of an ABEC rating for either
the Baby Bont +, or the Ninja Mini-Miser.
Ninja claims "...a lower rolling resistance and better acceleration than
coventional (their misspelling- not mine; ED) 608 bearings..."
I believe the value of mini-bearings lies in their light weight, and will be
fair weather race only for myself, and most of the people I skate with.
ED3
Bob Cardone
>
>While I have yet to use the set of now rare Baby Bont + bearings I
>purchased(saving them for competition), I know of two cases where near new
>mini bearings failed after the briefest exposure to water. In one case
>several bearings(brand unknown) literally disintegrated shortly after the
>skater went through a puddle. In another case, a brief exposure to a wet
>trail did them in.
This is what I have heard from many experienced skaters..
Bob
Mike
--
Cheers,
Mike.
"Bob Cardone" <car...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:6+YQO4wzyEKFzk...@4ax.com...
>
> Everyone I have talked to and posts I have read on various web sites
> have stated that the microbearings have a very short life. To replace
Perhaps so, but Bob hasn't been able to substantiate this. We've a few
people using microbearings in our local group, and no problems yet.
> them with regular 608s, you also have to replace the wheels. I
> purposely selected my last skates with regular bearings, since I
> typically get many thousands of miles out of a set of bearings, not
> hundreds of miles, as is reported with the microbearings.
>
Nonsense, you don't need to replace the wheels, as you can buy a set of
spacers with the bearings that adapt to fit ordinary skate wheels. Of
course that reduces the weight you save from using microbearings...
I bought a set of microbearings to compare and my personal conclusion is
that they are probably not worth the the money for most of us. There is
probably some advantage to be gained for those into serious racing or
hockey, but IMHO it's quite small. If you want to see some photos,
weights, and other details, I posted this article:
http://www.londonskaters.com/articles/articles_micro_bearings.htm
> Bob
Daryl Dahl
a thunderstorm, 20 minutes worth, and still spin great. (I misjudged how
fast the storm was moving in...oops). Anyway, I immediately disassembled
everything the minute I made it home and cleaned the bearings, dried, lubed,
and reassembled and they still spin great today. That was about 100 miles
ago. Maybe I just got lucky but I was very impressed, I thought I had ruined
them for sure.
"Bob Cardone" <cardone!@!mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:KWcRO+I7iWSRYJ...@4ax.com...
Edward Dike, III
Mike <mikeREMOVEva...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9este9$ltq$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com...
| Nonsense, you don't need to replace the wheels, as you can buy a set of
| spacers with the bearings that adapt to fit ordinary skate wheels. Of
| course that reduces the weight you save from using microbearings...
While it is possible(with the appropriate shim bushings) to use 688/
mini-bearings in a wheel designed with a hub for the larger diameter 608/
conventional bearings; it is not possible to use 608 bearings in a wheel
with a hub designed for 688 bearings.
There are several wheels currently available with a hub designed for
688/ mini- bearings. Perhaps skates using mini-bearings as original
equipment are using such a wheel.
As to longevity issues, it defies logic to believe, that all other
things being equal, a smaller/ lighter mechanical component- be it bearing,
axle bolt, frame- would offer the same service, and durability as a larger/
heavier component.
ED3
Ken Leung
>
> | Nonsense, you don't need to replace the wheels, as you can buy a set of
> | spacers with the bearings that adapt to fit ordinary skate wheels. Of
> | course that reduces the weight you save from using microbearings...
>
> While it is possible(with the appropriate shim bushings) to use 688/
> mini-bearings in a wheel designed with a hub for the larger diameter 608/
> conventional bearings; it is not possible to use 608 bearings in a wheel
> with a hub designed for 688 bearings.
I think 688 hub wheels are still not that common compare to 608 hub wheels
(duh). For most wheels you still have to use spacers (which i've heard that
the ninja minibearings' spacers break very very easily).
> There are several wheels currently available with a hub designed for
> 688/ mini- bearings. Perhaps skates using mini-bearings as original
> equipment are using such a wheel.
> As to longevity issues, it defies logic to believe, that all other
> things being equal, a smaller/ lighter mechanical component- be it
bearing,
> axle bolt, frame- would offer the same service, and durability as a
larger/
> heavier component.
Engineering miracle... lol. By the way, American cars still have very large
cylinders compare to European cars and Japanese cars. The horsepower is like
the same (a Buick V6 3.5L has 179 hp or something and a Honda 3.0L V6 VTEC
has 200hp) with the exception of torque (I think American cars have more
torque) That might be a way to justify "smaller could be equal/better to
larger things".
Well no, if a smaller bearing can't take as much load as a larger bearing,
you don't use them on 4 wheel-skates. 5 wheel skates have 20 bearings on
them instead of 16 on 4 wheel skates so I suppose minibearings will last
longer in 5 wheel skates.
Bill Fuhrmann
> mini-bearings in a wheel designed with a hub for the larger diameter 608/
> conventional bearings;
People also need to realize that they need different spacers. The mini
bearings are also narrower than 608s.
>it is not possible to use 608 bearings in a wheel
> with a hub designed for 688 bearings.
...but why would anyone want to do that anyway. Wheels for 608 bearings are
much easier to find.
> There are several wheels currently available with a hub designed for
> 688/ mini- bearings. Perhaps skates using mini-bearings as original
> equipment are using such a wheel.
They do. Unfortunately, that is the most convenient way to purchase the
wheels (very expensive but convenient). It is still hard to find the
wheels. They are still pretty rare in stores. That prompted K2 to offer
free standard spacers to Catalyst owners who couldn't find mini bearings and
the wheels for them.
After we published the offer in our club newsletter, the local K2 rep left
an e-mail that said that one store (out 10-20 locally?) would have the
wheels in stock.
They need to put the mini bearings in a lot more skates before many shops
will carry them.
> As to longevity issues, it defies logic to believe, that all other
> things being equal, a smaller/ lighter mechanical component- be it
bearing,
> axle bolt, frame- would offer the same service, and durability as a
larger/
> heavier component.
A lot depends on the materials and the load on them. Skates really do not
load the bearings very much. If it wasn't for the dirt and water, 608s
would last almost forever. If a maker can prevent the crud from getting in,
mini bearings should last a long time.
Mike
--
Cheers,
Mike.
"Edward Dike, III" <edd3R...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:ZftQ6.138$uN4.1...@news.uswest.net...
>
> Mike <mikeREMOVEva...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9este9$ltq$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com...
>
>
> | Nonsense, you don't need to replace the wheels, as you can buy a set
of
> | spacers with the bearings that adapt to fit ordinary skate wheels.
Of
> | course that reduces the weight you save from using microbearings...
>
> While it is possible(with the appropriate shim bushings) to use
688/
> mini-bearings in a wheel designed with a hub for the larger diameter
608/
> conventional bearings; it is not possible to use 608 bearings in a
wheel
> with a hub designed for 688 bearings.
Pretty obvious - I didn't think that needed saying!!!!!!
> There are several wheels currently available with a hub designed
for
> 688/ mini- bearings. Perhaps skates using mini-bearings as original
> equipment are using such a wheel.
Yes, the Salomon TR Vitesse, for example, come with micro bearing
wheels.
> As to longevity issues, it defies logic to believe, that all other
> things being equal, a smaller/ lighter mechanical component- be it
bearing,
> axle bolt, frame- would offer the same service, and durability as a
larger/
> heavier component.
I don't believe that either - and I did not say that microbearings are
either more or less reliable than standard bearings. I was simply
making the point that Bob is telling this ng that microbearings suck and
have no durability, without offering any proof. While your argument
above has some weight of logic, I could counter by saying that because
inline skating puts very little load or RPM on bearings relative to what
the bearings are designed to handle, that your argument is irrelevant.
Do you see that your argument works only where the bearings are doing
something on the order of their design workload, and not at all when
they are exposed to far less workload?
Right now, no-one here has offered any real objective evidence for or
against microbearing reliability. Comparing a sufficiently large sample
of both kinds of bearings over a variety of skating conditions would be
far more convincing than simply presenting the what if or might be
arguments that we've seen so far.
verkion
my Rollerblade Core Carbons and they are quite possibly the smoothest
bearings I ever used. They don't spin the longest but, it takes the
least effort to get them moving. I've tried many many brands of
bearings over the years...albiet in my old skate. Twincam, Boss,
Bones, Swiss Boss <--- (I still have no idea what the difference is
between these companies), Killer Bees, Terminator, NMB and a couple of
other ones. All were ABEC 5 and up equivalent. As I mentioned
before, the Ninja's are among the best I've used. I haven't skated in
wet conditions yet with my new skates...so I can't help you guys much
on that.
verkion
McGroyne@amishrakefight.org bite me
> The Twincam micros on my Salomons (TR Vitesse) made it through a downpour
in
> a thunderstorm, 20 minutes worth, and still spin great. (I misjudged how
> fast the storm was moving in...oops). Anyway, I immediately disassembled
> everything the minute I made it home and cleaned the bearings, dried,
lubed,
> and reassembled and they still spin great today. That was about 100 miles
> ago. Maybe I just got lucky but I was very impressed, I thought I had
ruined
> them for sure.
> > Bob
I too am using the TR Vitesse as a daily training skate, and find that the
stock Twincam microbearings to work fine. I probably tear them down with
greater frequency than most (once a week), but I do put a helluva lot of
miles on them in that time span. Am I being a bit retentive about bearing
maintenance? I am comfortable with that, as long as the time spent seems to
bear fruit. I did purchase a second set to swap out when time is pressing.
Overall, I am quite pleased with the performance of the microbearings.
Thus endeth my rantings.
Da Troutcannon
Hell Lawn Wheels
The Double Push Cafe'
Edward Dike, III
"Edward Dike, III" <edd3R...@qwest.net> wrote in message
| While it is possible(with the appropriate shim bushings) to use
688/
> mini-bearings in a wheel designed with a hub for the larger diameter
608/
> conventional bearings; it is not possible to use 608 bearings in a
wheel
> with a hub designed for 688 bearings.
Pretty obvious - I didn't think that needed saying!!!!!!
Mike,
Apparently that did need saying...
The reason for my statement was because someone stated he would have to
replace his skate wheels to use 608 bearings; ["...To replace
them with regular 608s, you also have to replace the wheels...." Bob
Cardone] ...the obvious inference would be the wheels were designed for 688
bearings; to which you replied: "Nonsense, you don't need to replace the
wheels, as you can buy a set of spacers with the bearings that adapt to fit
ordinary skate wheels....".
You may well know the differences in the bearing diameters, but someone less
familiar with the technology, and nomenclature would be misled by your
response, as you imply the situation could be remedied with a set of
spacers. Spacers will not solve that problem.
As to the design loads and speeds of either model bearings, I haven't a
clue as to what those are. Hopefully for us all the loads from skating are
well within those design envelopes. I suspect, but do not know, that they
are. At 20 MPH(approx 32kph), an 80mm wheel spins at approx 2100RPM,
probably not near a critical speed.
I simply said: "it defies logic to believe,...that all other things being
equal, a smaller/ lighter mechanical component- be it bearing, axle bolt,
frame- would offer the same service, and durability as a larger/ heavier
component."
I happen to agree with the post that suggested the most frequent cause of
bearing failure is contamination, not the mechanical stresses applied.
And while it is purely anecdotal, as is (at best) most of the information
posted about the mechanical aspects of skates, and skating, my observations
are that mini bearings are more susceptible than are traditional 608
bearings, to mechanical failure due to contamination, .
As far as "...offered any real objective evidence for or
against microbearing reliability...." I would suggest it is unrealistic to
expect find much if any purely 'objective' information, as skating is a
recreational sport to most people, not engineering research. And as you
acknowledge on your web page, purely human evaluations are subjective.
Further, most 'research' is probably undertaken with a commercial ends in
mind. One must view the available information with all the credibility due
it's source.
BTW, your web page:
http://www.londonskaters.com/articles/articles_micro_bearings.htm
is an excellent visual resource for someone wishing to view the physical
differences between the two bearing models.
ED3