Rollerblade Lightning 07
Ilan Vardi
eventually
getting the Salomon Vitesse skate, but I wanted to see what these were
like.
I put on a size 9 (US) which is the same size that I have for my
current
skates, Salomon TR Mag Elite. (Since these last skates are fairly
similar
to the Vitesse, I will assume that my impressions of the fit and
comfort
of the Mag Elite carry over to the Vitesse.) Anyway, the size 9
Rollerblade
also fit me very well. My toe did touch the end of the skate, but
otherwise,
I was not cramped at all in the front. It seems fair to conclude that
the
skates are not on the narrow side.
The rest of the skate also fit fairly
well, but was much firmer than the Salomon. In fact, the Salomon
skates
feel a little mushy when I first put them on, though this seems to
insure
their comfort after a couple of hours. On the other hand, the
Rollerblades
felt fairly similar to my first set of skates, Rollerblade Maxxum's,
which
have hard shell boots. These skates were not as comfortable as the
Salomon
after 2 hours, but did not hurt my feet too much either. Moreover, the
Salomon skates widened at the beginning so I kept having to lace them
tighter, whereas these Rollerblades were very snug and gave the
impression
that they would stay pretty much the same.
The skates seem to have about as much ankle support as the Salomon
skates,
and I felt just as steady (or unsteady) balancing on one skate on the
carpeted floor as on my Salomons. The front flex is less than the
Salomon
without the Energyzer.
The skates also feel lighter than the Salomon skates.
Visually, the skates look like racing skates, and when you have
them on,
it looks like you are wearing racing skates, as opposed to the Salomon
skates
which look like fitness skates. However, the cuff height appear to be
about the same and the impression of race skates may be due to the
lace
covers.
The Rollerblade skates have laces which only go halfway up the
skates,
and they don't have any lace lock mechanism that I could tell. There
is a
power strap, but it seems completely useless because it is very short
and
you can't get any leverage to tighten it. There is a ratchet buckle at
the
ankle that appears to be very efficient. In any case, the skates felt
very
snug and I didn't have the feeling that I needed to tighten anything.
One slight problem is that the liner starts coming out of the boot
when you take your foot out.
The wheels on the Rollerblade were similar to the new aluminum type
wheels
on the Lightning 09, but the aluminum parts were plastic in this
case.
They seemed to roll less well than the original wheels on my TR Mag
Elite (also micro bearings).
I noted that the skates include an optional brake which requires a
special two piece axle, also included.
Finally, I made sure to look at the owner's manual to see what they
had
to say about the frame. The following caught my attention (I am
paraphrasing):
"The frame is designed for speed skating for road and track. This
skate should
not be used on rough or bumpy terrain."
Unfortunately, this last part completely rules out this skate in my
case.
In particular, I live in Paris, and you can't ride 400 yards without
having
to negotiate some cobblestones, and these are problem enough without
having
the frame bottoming out. However, if you are only planning to use
these
on smooth pavement, then they seem like a very good choice, plus they
are
about $50 cheaper than the Salomon Vitesse.
That's too bad, because this skate would have made a good alternative
to
the Vitesse in my case, since it would be totally different from my
TR Mag Elite.
-ilan
Bob Cardone
>Finally, I made sure to look at the owner's manual to see what they
>had
>to say about the frame. The following caught my attention (I am
>paraphrasing):
>"The frame is designed for speed skating for road and track. This
>skate should
> not be used on rough or bumpy terrain."
>
>Unfortunately, this last part completely rules out this skate in my
>case.
>In particular, I live in Paris, and you can't ride 400 yards without
>having
>to negotiate some cobblestones, and these are problem enough without
>having
>the frame bottoming out.
>-ilan
So apparently they are telling us that those "outriggers " on the
frame are going to do have some ground clearance problems if we skate
on anything but a completely flat surface.
Really a strange design. What on earth were they thinking when they
designed this frame????? Next time, they should try getting some input
from people that SKATE!!!!
Bob
Motorblade
>designed this frame????
They were designing a skate for the track, a racing/fitness skate. Not such a
bizarre idea really. No it is not designed for regular urban skating like Ilan
was hoping.
>Next time, they should try getting some input
>from people that SKATE!!!
Bob this one note wail of yours is yet to be based in reality. The skate was
designed in Italy by Nordica and they do employ skaters to test the prototypes
,that is why I had a pair to skate on in October. I sent in a feedback form . I
had no problems with clearance on the parking lot that i skate on and it has
some mild bumpy patches and gravel bits and a few sticks , but they did not
mess with me. My main complaint was with the shroud that tore easily.
If you have evidence that they don't use skaters for feedback then show it
otherwise you are just making a claim based on what you see as a strange design
that must, in your mind, be created by non skaters with no input from skaters.
This is your own inference based on your opinion of the skate. For someone who
recquires accurate info in skates you are sure riding loose in the saddle on
this.
But oh yeah you don't care, I forgot you said that . You also said you would
reserve judgement till august when you were going to take a headcount and rank
it by sight on the trails by the cardone method.
"fritz"
<A
HREF="http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2001-05-11/xtra_featu
re4.html">The Austin Chronicle Features: A Life on Wheels</A>
www.motorblade.com
Birdy(Parker), Brazil(Gilliam),and Brewster McCloud(Altman)
Bob Cardone
>>What on earth were they thinking when they
>>designed this frame????
>
>They were designing a skate for the track, a racing/fitness skate. Not such a
>bizarre idea really. No it is not designed for regular urban skating like Ilan
>was hoping.
>
A skate for a TRACK is a Fitness Skate. I know dozens of Fitness
skaters that skate on city streets and encounter all kinds of rough
pavement where they skate. Athens to Atlanta is a race on City streets
and country roads not a paved Track.
>>Next time, they should try getting some input
>>from people that SKATE!!!
>
>Bob this one note wail of yours is yet to be based in reality. The skate was
>designed in Italy by Nordica and they do employ skaters to test the prototypes
>,that is why I had a pair to skate on in October. I sent in a feedback form . I
>had no problems with clearance on the parking lot that i skate on and it has
>some mild bumpy patches and gravel bits and a few sticks , but they did not
>mess with me. My main complaint was with the shroud that tore easily.
>
How many skaters does an Italian Ski company employ? Anybody anyone
would know by name? I don't work for Nordica and either do some of
the posters on this newsgroup and on 2 web sites that discussed
Inline Skating. The Outriggers on this skate frame were mentioned as
a negative by the majority of skaters that saw a picture of the 07
and 09 Model. What, are we all wrong and the Italian Inline experts
right? I really doubt that. If I had seen a picture of these skates
prior to their final production I would have put on my feedback form
".... get rid of those ridiculous looking protrusions on the bottom of
the frame. They are going to cause ground clearance problems and force
people to replace slightly worn wheels, well before they should have
to. "
Either the feedback they got was poorly thought out , , or it was
accurate and they didn't listen to it.
>If you have evidence that they don't use skaters for feedback then show it
You want evidence that good skaters didn't have input on the frame
design of these skates........
go to www.rollerblade .com
click on Mens Skates and look at the 09 and 07 frame. Ther's yoiur
evidence. No "skater" in his right mind would design a frame like
that. Have you ever seen any of the major frame manufacturers like
Mogema and Verducci design a frame with things sticking out of the
bottom almost down to ground? Don't think so.
>otherwise you are just making a claim based on what you see as a strange design
>that must, in your mind, be created by non skaters with no input from skaters.
>This is your own inference based on your opinion of the skate.
You want to know what is wrong with Rollerblade? It;'s the exact
thing that I told you that one of the oldest and largest skate dealers
in the US told me last year. They are an "arrogant " company to deal
with. Their corporate attitude is exactly like yours. You tell RB
that something on their skate line looks like it should be changed
because the skate buying public won't like it and yours (
Rollerblades) knee jerk reaction is to tell you that they couldn't
care less what you thought about it and furthermore if you don't like
their latest design, your a dope who doesn't know any better.
They have done this for the last few years and most of the better
skaters think that their skates suck at this point, because of it.
Like I say, we will see when they finally hit the stores, but when
people realize that $12-13 dollars wheels are going to have to be
changed every few weeks or months depending on yoru skating mileage
and that gets around, you are going to see very few of these things on
skaters feet. Eitther that or some Rep will have a Mod that will
remedy the problem ( Like a hack saw or grinding wheel treatment of
the frame) Of course as soon as you do something like that you can
kiss your warranty good by.
I really wish Rollerblade would make a good skate. Everytime they
come out with another pile of junk, it drags the entire Inline
Industry down, dilutes the competition and we all suffer.
Bob
dan marshall
firstly no-one was saying they are a pretty skate, but to base your
whole argument that they are poor design and no 'decent' (your
inference) skater would ever look at skating on them is absolutely
stupid.
you lose your credibility when you say that it's a dumb looking skate
and therefore it's a poor design and it's gonna be crap to skate on.
oh, sorry, i forgot your second 'strong' argument... RB is arrogant and
therefore their new design is crap. yay for that one too! so well
grounded.
man, you're sounding like you fit that old 'woman' stereotype that you
buy your skates purely on how they look and taking no account of the
actual features and specs of the skates in question.
hardly a strong position to be starting a fight...
i hardly see how you suffer because RB may bring out a substandard line
of skates... you wouldn't skate them anyway, you've already written them
out of the market. makes you wonder why they even bother bringing out
new stuff aye? i mean, obviously they're not going to make any money...
funny that, they don't seem to be doing so bad...
just give it up bro. keep some credibility.
Motorblade
>a negative by the majority of skaters that saw a picture of the 07
>and 09 Model.
The frame was up for discussion and people had questions about it.It was the
most obvious new element of the design. They questioned its possible problems
but no one had skated it yet.
>What, are we all wrong and the Italian Inline experts
>right?
No bob. I am sorry but you do not speak for all skaters(or was that an
imperial we), you simply speak the loudest.
>You want evidence that good skaters didn't have input on the frame
>design of these skates........
>
>go to www.rollerblade .com
>
>click on Mens Skates and look at the 09 and 07 frame. Ther's yoiur
>evidence. No "skater" in his right mind would design a frame like
>that. Have you ever seen any of the major frame manufacturers like
>Mogema and Verducci design a frame with things sticking out of the
>bottom almost down to ground? Don't think so.
>
Sorry bob but in no stretch of the word is that evidence.
>You want to know what is wrong with Rollerblade?
bob you have already said this before . It is a one note rant.You add nothing
to the discussion,
>They are an "arrogant " company to deal
>with. Their corporate attitude is exactly like yours. You tell RB
>that something on their skate line looks like it should be changed
>because the skate buying public won't like it and yours (
>Rollerblades) knee jerk reaction is to tell you that they couldn't
>care less what you thought about it and furthermore if you don't like
>their latest design, your a dope who doesn't know any better.
>
Its called reflection when the attributes you find most troublesome in others
are the attributes you posess.
I did not say that I couldn't care less. I am taking the time to discuss. I
used no word even slightly akin to dope. I have no problem with anyone not
liking the design but if they repeatedly claim that RB does not use skaters in
its R+D then I call BS on that. You think there aren't competent italian
skaters, surely not. I doubt Nordica is staffed entirely by italians anyways.
God this is silly bob.
your in the deep end again bob
>I really wish Rollerblade would make a good skate. Everytime they
>come out with another pile of junk, it drags the entire Inline
>Industry down, dilutes the competition and we all suffer.
>
Then bob you have skated on all rb skates from the last couple years and they
are all crap huh. You have been on an xr5, a kitalpha , a hydrus, a E2.2, E2.4,
Core XTV, Perseus,the entire Pro series, etc...etc..Gimme a break.
You seem to be as vibrant as ever bob, you aren't suffering.
"dilutes the competition" what kind of mumbo jumbo is that
Supposedly bob you don't care(i think you are actually very excited to have a
new RB model to slag and spar with), and supposedly you were going to wait till
august to pass judgement.(you have as hard a time holding your tongue as I do)
Ah well perhaps we amuse the newsgroup with our bouts or perhaps they are
visiting there killfiles, yah never knows now does ya.
John Aurentz
How are you frames holding up on the TR Mg-Elites. After replacing the
skates for the 3rd time, I removed the new frames and replaced them
with a 5 wheel frame and released the Energyzer. I don't even get near
a cobblestone.....
The vitesse is a shorter cuff skate than the Mg-Elite but there is no
other difference after the 5 wheel frame change.
I would go for the Vitesse rather than the Rollerblade because of the
frame. The Mogema frame used on the Rollerblade will bottom out on you
in the rough streets of France. I really like the speed lace system on
the Mg-Elite and Vitesse. The Rollerblade 07 doesn't seem to have a
releasable Energyzer so there is less push possible with a stressed
boot. The wheels and bearings will be replaced with more conventional
ones when worn as replacing the Rollerblade wheels is expensive and
the wheel wear may be faster than a conventional wheel.
The 09's look better with a carbon boot but the frame issue is worse
and still no releasable Energyzer and the wheel replacement cost is
12.00 US each.
Stay with the Mg-Elites and go to a racing boot and frame if that is
where you want to go. If you are skating the streets of Paris, you
have the right skates now. Maybe a 5 wheel frame mounted like I did
will be the bridge to the speed skates.
It was a fair evaluation though and much appreciated. Especially the
famous Rollerblade fit vs the mushy Salomon fit.
John
il...@tonyaharding.org (Ilan Vardi) wrote in message news:<6c8faec2.02032...@posting.google.com>...
Ilan Vardi
>
> They were designing a skate for the track, a racing/fitness skate. Not such a
> bizarre idea really. No it is not designed for regular urban skating like Ilan
> was hoping.
I stated that they weren't adequate for Paris skating. However, I did skate
fairly extensively in Montreal and my impression is that the roads and bike
paths in that city are definitely smooth enough not to cause any problems.
I think that this probably extends to most American environments. The Paris
streets and sidewalks are particularly challenging.
As I stated, I think that this is a pretty good product, otherwise.
-ilan
Ilan Vardi
> Ilan,
>
> How are you frames holding up on the TR Mg-Elites. After replacing the
> skates for the 3rd time, I removed the new frames and replaced them
> with a 5 wheel frame and released the Energyzer. I don't even get near
> a cobblestone.....
Much to my surprise, the frames are holding up perfectly after 4
months of
6-8 hours a week of skating. The only problem with them is that I had
problems
retightening the frames since this plate would spin around. I solved
this by
pulling the frame away from the boot when tightening it.
These were the best fitting skates I tried on,
so I bought them with the intention of replacing the frames with a
completely
different type, if they ever broke. Actually, I think the weakness of
these skates is that the racing wheels and bearings are not a good
choice for a fitness/training skate. I took them off right away and
have never used them yet.
By the way, the real problem I encountered was the replacement
wheels I
bought, Hyper X-360 fitness wheels. The new model (with thin spokes)
seems
very poorly made with over half of the wheels I got having wobbles.
The
store replaced the worst ones with the old regular spoke model. I then
went
to a store and checked out these wheels on stock Fila skates and
again, over half had wobbles.
> The vitesse is a shorter cuff skate than the Mg-Elite but there is no
> other difference after the 5 wheel frame change.
> I would go for the Vitesse rather than the Rollerblade because of the
> frame. The Mogema frame used on the Rollerblade will bottom out on you
> in the rough streets of France. I really like the speed lace system on
> the Mg-Elite and Vitesse. The Rollerblade 07 doesn't seem to have a
> releasable Energyzer so there is less push possible with a stressed
> boot. The wheels and bearings will be replaced with more conventional
> ones when worn as replacing the Rollerblade wheels is expensive and
> the wheel wear may be faster than a conventional wheel.
> The 09's look better with a carbon boot but the frame issue is worse
> and still no releasable Energyzer and the wheel replacement cost is
> 12.00 US each.
As with the TR Mag Elite, it seems to make sense never to use the
stock wheels except for races or rides where you want the fastest
equipment,
and use a separate set for training, so the price of replacement
wheels is not necessarily an issue.
> Stay with the Mg-Elites and go to a racing boot and frame if that is
> where you want to go. If you are skating the streets of Paris, you
> have the right skates now. Maybe a 5 wheel frame mounted like I did
> will be the bridge to the speed skates.
I have been considering simply replacing the frames as you say, but
then
I wouldn't have regular skates. Oh well, I'll decide soon. The nice
thing
about skating is that everything is much cheaper than in cycling. Last
year, I paid $400 (the price of these skates) just to upgrade to
9-speed.
-ilan
Bob Cardone
Dan Marshall is back minus again minus his caps key,
dan marshall <dk...@student.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>bob, you're a tosser.
>
>firstly no-one was saying they are a pretty skate, but to base your
>whole argument that they are poor design and no 'decent' (your
>inference) skater would ever look at skating on them is absolutely
>stupid.
Who ever mentioned anything about a 'pretty skate or not pretty to
this point except you? I said they are a poor design and so have at
least a half dozen other people on 2 web sites and this newsgroup. (
In other words, boy wonder, the vast majority of comments about the
frame have been negative) Not only that, NOBODY can figure out a good
reason for this weird design ( except maybe you)
>
>you lose your credibility when you say that it's a dumb looking skate
>and therefore it's a poor design and it's gonna be crap to skate on.
Let's see, the company says to skate on only smooth surfaces so that
the metal thingys sticking out of the bottom of the frame don't catch
on stuff. That's a good design I guess.
>
If you are going to try and make a point, then try really hard to work
bit of logic into your comments, instead of just rambling on in lower
case letters,.
Bob
Bob Cardone
>>
>Then bob you have skated on all rb skates from the last couple years and they
>are all crap huh. You have been on an xr5, a kitalpha , a hydrus, a E2.2, E2.4,
>Core XTV, Perseus,the entire Pro series, etc...etc..Gimme a break.
>
No, and I didn't road test a Yugo or Edsel either. Most of the
skates that you listed in your list above are pretty rare on the feet
of the better skaters that I see skating around on Inlines. I see
several models of K2s in abundance including Flight ALX, Kinetics,
Catalyst, Mod 8's, Salomon TR Mags and Elites, Vitesse, etc...etc..
Most of the Rollerblade products I see seem to be the $125 variety
from Sports Authority.
>You seem to be as vibrant as ever bob, you aren't suffering.
>
>"dilutes the competition" what kind of mumbo jumbo is that
What that means is , if RB had their act together for the last few
years and were designing really good skates for the more experienced
skater that people were actually buying and skating on, Salomon and K2
would have to kick it up a notch or two to compete, as well as compete
using price. As it is, the market that RB dominates is the beginner
el cheapo market.
For instance, I know many skaters that are IISA Certified , Skate
Patrol members and work for skate shops in the area. None of them
skate RB products. Many of them used to , years ago, but they have
all moved on mostly to Salomon and K2 . The Core Carbon is
Rollerblades top of the line Fitness Skate from last year. I have yet
to see anyone wearing them in two of our largest skating venues in
Atlanta, Peidmont Park and the Silver Comet Trail. That tells me that
people stayed away from that skate in droves.
Like I said before, we will see at the end of this season, how many of
these 07 and 09 skates we actually see on people's feet, skating
around. Until then, it's all just opinions. I may be right and I may
be wrong. Time will tell.
Bob
heather halvorson
Ilan Vardi wrote:
>
> Actually, I think the weakness of
> these skates is that the racing wheels and bearings are not a good
> choice for a fitness/training skate. I took them off right away and
> have never used them yet.
how do you mean?
my complaint about my salomon mgs is that i don't like the salomon
wheels they came with. also, i don't really like the quality of
salomon's frames (excluding their racing frame).
i remember someone posting that wheels get "old" after awhile if you
don't use them. don't know if it's true and don't have time to search
google right now. but i too have some hardly used wheels sitting around
and i've started wondering what their shelf life is. i'd hate to be
skating on old wheels to save the new ones just to find out that they've
lost all rebound while sitting in the box.
heather
Ilan Vardi
>
> No, and I didn't road test a Yugo or Edsel either.
I road tested a Yugo and it didn't seem like such a bad car, especially
since it cost about half as much as other cars. The best part was forcing
the salesman to sit in the back seat. As for the Edsel, I'm not sure that
it was any worse than contemporary American cars. More to the point,
the Corvair has a reputation as being a terrible car, due to the efforts
of Ralph Nader mostly, but in fact, it was the smallest, lightest and
best handling car of its generation. The problem was the different handling
characteristics due to the rear engine, but this was not any worse than
the VW Beetle. Another perfectly good car which got a bad rap was the
Suzuki Samurai. For example, a couple of people died when their Samurai
rolled over on the off ramp of Highway 101 South, University ave., Palo
Alto exit. A sign stating 25mph was clearly posted, and at that speed
I was barely able to get a perceptible lean on my motorcycle, indicating that
the deceased were probably driving close to twice the speed limit.
-ilan
Lord Phynix
<nothe...@attbi.com> wrote:
I've picked up skating again more seriously, after about 2 years of
only skating maybe 3 times during each summer. I have no idea when
the last time I bought wheels was. It appears that I used them a few
times before I stopped skating. Enough to wear off most of the
labels, so I can't even tell what they are any more. I suspect
They're 76 or 78mm, 78A or so.
I rotated them before my first skate. The Abec-3 bearings, which use
gel or grease, seemed fine. No rust, still roll well. The weather
here has been horribly lately, so I've only gotten 2 long skates in,
but I havn't noticed any stability problems with the wheels, no
excessive wear, no chunking or anything.
For all that time, probably half of it the skates were in the closet,
the other half they were in my trunk.
Maybe the wheels I got happened to withstand age better then most? Or
maybe not. I really don't see how the material could be damaged,
unless exposed to extreme temperature changes often. Bearings will of
course go out the window if stored in a place with excessive moisture
problems. (Like my basement :) I do live in a fairly moderate
climate though, and that might have something to do with my
experinces. It rains alot here, rarely snows in the winter (schools
close if we get more then an inch) and people complain like crazy if
it gets about 90 F in the summer.
I'd check for cracks, feel to make sure they are still as hard or soft
as they should be, and if so, use them. Or throw them away if you are
concerned about safety and don't care about money. Only fall I've had
on my 2+ year old wheels was about 3 hours ago. Darn speed bumb
jumped out in front of me. Never even saw it coming.
By the way, thanks Bob for starting that article about the wrist
guards. I don't normally wear them because they tend to irritate the
skin on my wrist (as do most watches), but I did tonight. While I
doubt I would have seriously damaged my wrists in that fall (I somehow
managed to fall forward and move one foot in front and one foot to the
side, so I slided on my left hip), I certainly saved the skin on my
right palm. If I would have face planted instead, I could see the
wrist guards saving me from a sprain and alot of road rash.
Motorblade
>
Nice review. Since I don't skate other brands I can't really make any good
comparisons.My opinions carry less weight because of that. Its very interesting
to hear you contrast and compare.
Motorblade
speak of.
If you want to say RB's are crap then you should speak from experience not
inference based on how many people skate on them. I see very few better skaters
skating on Mogemas does that mean they are crappy. Your logic fails you.
I have proved with numbers that RB outsells all other brands so even your
observations fail you.
>motor...@aol.comnohype (Motorblade) wrote:
>
>>>
>>Then bob you have skated on all rb skates from the last couple years and
>they
>>are all crap huh. You have been on an xr5, a kitalpha , a hydrus, a E2.2,
>E2.4,
>>Core XTV, Perseus,the entire Pro series, etc...etc..Gimme a break.
>>
>
>No, and I didn't road test a Yugo or Edsel either. Most of the
>skates that you listed in your list above are pretty rare on the feet
>of the better skaters that I see skating around on Inlines. I see
>several models of K2s in abundance including Flight ALX, Kinetics,
>Catalyst, Mod 8's, Salomon TR Mags and Elites, Vitesse, etc...etc..
>Most of the Rollerblade products I see seem to be the $125 variety
>from Sports Authority.
>
For some people that is what they can afford, and some of those people are good
skaters.
An affordable skate is not a negative.
One of RB's strongest points is making a good skate that people can afford.
Motorblade
>least a half dozen other people on 2 web sites and this newsgroup
WOW a half dozen, thats 6 people isn't it.
Arlo Guthrie(alices restaurant) would call that a movement.
They had all(all 6 of them)actually skated on them or were they armchair
designers like you.
> NOBODY can figure out a good
>reason for this weird design ( except maybe you)
>
On this newsgroup we came up with at least a half dozen(thats six)possible
reasons for the design. strength(1), aerodynamics(2), cost(3),
styling(4),twig\rock guard(5), and to piss bob off(6).
heather halvorson
heather halvorson wrote:
>
> i remember someone posting that wheels get "old" after awhile if you
> don't use them. don't know if it's true and don't have time to search
> google right now.
ok, replying to own post. yes, i talk to myself in my car..
the post i was remembering didn't actually say that wheels go bad over
time, it was more of a supposition. i'll paste it in:
"I have heard from one chemist who also races on in-line skates that
polyurethane deteriorates over time in storage. It would be interesting
to use Arne's machine to retest the same unused wheel repeatedly over
a period of several years to check for this effect. This could tell us
whether it is a good idea for skaters to buy a multi-year supply of
wheels at a discounted bulk price."
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=brockmann+bulk+wheel+group:rec.sport.skating.racing&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&selm=9rd9od%24c3v%241%40panix2.panix.com&rnum=1
i think mainly i'm looking for an excuse to indulge myself with new
wheels. but if anyone has any experience with this, i'm interested. i've
been wondering about it over the last month. i have about 5 sets of
wheels right now and i'm only using 3 of them.
heather
heather halvorson
sorry, i didn't mean to divert this thread so far from discussing the
rb lightening skate. i should have started a new thread instead.
Lord Phynix wrote:
>
> It rains alot here, rarely snows in the winter (schools
> close if we get more then an inch) and people complain like crazy if
> it gets about 90 F in the summer.
you don't live in seattle do you?
> I'd check for cracks, feel to make sure they are still as hard or soft
> as they should be, and if so, use them. Or throw them away if you are
> concerned about safety and don't care about money.
my main concern is that the wheels i'm saving for a year or so to race
on are still as fast as a brand new set. if they are going to degrade in
storage, i'd rather put them on my skates and not put up with training
on the flat little pucks that masquerade as wheels on my skates now.
so, really, my problem isn't too serious! thank you for pointing out the
safety issues though. i will definitely check them for structural deficiencies.
Only fall I've had
> on my 2+ year old wheels was about 3 hours ago. Darn speed bumb
> jumped out in front of me. Never even saw it coming.
>
> By the way, thanks Bob for starting that article about the wrist
> guards. I don't normally wear them because they tend to irritate the
> skin on my wrist (as do most watches), but I did tonight. While I
> doubt I would have seriously damaged my wrists in that fall (I somehow
> managed to fall forward and move one foot in front and one foot to the
> side, so I slided on my left hip), I certainly saved the skin on my
> right palm. If I would have face planted instead, I could see the
> wrist guards saving me from a sprain and alot of road rash.
don't face plant!!!
i hope you're not too raw and sore, but i'm glad to hear that you are
skating again.
heather
Ilan Vardi
> Ilan Vardi wrote:
> >
>
> > Actually, I think the weakness of
> > these skates is that the racing wheels and bearings are not a good
> > choice for a fitness/training skate. I took them off right away and
> > have never used them yet.
>
> how do you mean?
A fitness skate is most likely to be used very often and therefore
fairly frequently in wet conditions, or in other situations which
would be deleterious to the bearings, or at least require cleaning
them. For that reason, it makes sense to have fairly sturdy bearings
as the default. For this reason, the micro-bearings don't seem like
a good choice for these particular skates. However, you are correct
in being puzzled about my wheel comment, since this argument does not
seem to apply to wheels.
By the way, I think that K2 has a much better choice of
bearings in their Mod 10 skate. My wife has the same bearings on her
Velocity Titanium skate and I can't get over how durable and fast they
are compared to all the other bearings I've had. I've have so far been
unable to get these separately for my wheels.
> i remember someone posting that wheels get "old" after awhile if you
> don't use them. don't know if it's true and don't have time to search
> google right now. but i too have some hardly used wheels sitting around
> and i've started wondering what their shelf life is. i'd hate to be
> skating on old wheels to save the new ones just to find out that they've
> lost all rebound while sitting in the box.
Well, I'm planning on using them when I get my next pair of skates, so they
will only be sitting around for about 6 months, so not too much more than
the average wait in the store (even including the wait in the store).
-ilan
heather halvorson
Ilan Vardi wrote:
>
> A fitness skate is most likely to be used very often and therefore
> fairly frequently in wet conditions, or in other situations which
> would be deleterious to the bearings, or at least require cleaning
> them. For that reason, it makes sense to have fairly sturdy bearings
> as the default. For this reason, the micro-bearings don't seem like
> a good choice for these particular skates.
ah, now i see.
i thought maybe
a) nice wheels and bearings are too fast
b) nice wheels and bearings are too expensive to use for training
i never even came up with the issue of sturdiness!
> By the way, I think that K2 has a much better choice of
> bearings in their Mod 10 skate. My wife has the same bearings on her
> Velocity Titanium skate and I can't get over how durable and fast they
> are compared to all the other bearings I've had. I've have so far been
> unable to get these separately for my wheels.
what kind are they? (i went to their site for 3 seconds but all i got
was that they are abec7)
my k2 mod 8's came with twincam abec7, which i love and are durable for
me. i've pretty much skated on twincam all winter long. the salomon mgs
i have came with twincam bearings also. (why don't i get paid for this??)
> > i remember someone posting that wheels get "old" after awhile if you
> > don't use them.
>
> Well, I'm planning on using them when I get my next pair of skates, so they
> will only be sitting around for about 6 months, so not too much more than
> the average wait in the store (even including the wait in the store).
you don't worry enough!! (i'm sure it will be fine)
heather
Bob Cardone
>
>i remember someone posting that wheels get "old" after awhile if you
>don't use them. don't know if it's true and don't have time to search
>google right now. but i too have some hardly used wheels sitting around
>and i've started wondering what their shelf life is. i'd hate to be
>skating on old wheels to save the new ones just to find out that they've
>lost all rebound while sitting in the box.
Go to Hyper's web site and send them an Email with that question.
They would probably be happy to answer it and they should certainly
know what they are talking about.
Bob
Bob Cardone
>Bob Cardone <cardone1!@!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<vhhj9uo33pdn28rpi...@4ax.com>...
>>
>> No, and I didn't road test a Yugo or Edsel either.
>
>I road tested a Yugo and it didn't seem like such a bad car, especially
>since it cost about half as much as other cars. The best part was forcing
>the salesman to sit in the back seat. As for the Edsel, I'm not sure that
>it was any worse than contemporary American cars. More to the point,
>the Corvair has a reputation as being a terrible car, due to the efforts
>of Ralph Nader mostly, but in fact, it was the smallest, lightest and
>best handling car of its generation.
The Corvair was great and doing barrel rolls. Nice quality for an
aircraft. Not so good for an automobile.
The problem was the different handling
>characteristics due to the rear engine, but this was not any worse than
>the VW Beetle.
True as to the VW and also most of today's SUV's. One good yank of
the steering wheel and over they go!
>Another perfectly good car which got a bad rap was the
>Suzuki Samurai. For example, a couple of people died when their Samurai
>rolled over on the off ramp of Highway 101 South, University ave., Palo
>Alto exit. A sign stating 25mph was clearly posted, and at that speed
>I was barely able to get a perceptible lean on my motorcycle, indicating that
>the deceased were probably driving close to twice the speed limit.
>
>-ilan
See when Consumer Reports tested that vehicle in a Slalom course at
about 40 MPH. It spent more time on the outriggers than it did on it's
4 wheels. Then re-evaluate your comments. It was as tippy as they
get. That's why it was taken off the market the very next year.
Bob
Bob Cardone
>I have proved with numbers that RB outsells all other brands so even your
>observations fail you.
and MacDonalds sells the most burgers, so they have to be good
too..and Huffy sells more bikes than anyone, etc etc.....
dan marshall
minus what?
oh, Bob's back 'minus' again minus his brain. i see. that sentence makes
sense now.
i seem to recall a previous little spat that you backed well away from
regarding my use of the caps key. remember the little challenge you
weren't up to?
first question restated.
what the hell are you basing your comments on?
you offer no supporting evidence other than the fact they LOOK like a
dumb design. (note the use of that little key there?)
you are basing what is effectively an engineering point upon a purely
visual assessment. now engineering is not my field, so i won't argue
whether they are actually a poor design or not (oh, and also because i
haven't skated them), all i'm questioning is the basis for your stance.
> I said they are a poor design and so have at least a half dozen other people
> on 2 web sites and this newsgroup. ( In other words, boy wonder, the vast
> majority of comments about the frame have been negative) Not only that,
> NOBODY can figure out a good reason for this weird design ( except maybe you)
in my field, critical reasoning is rather key, and therefore i struggle
to understand how you and your 'at least a half dozen others' base your
ridicule of a skate's design on nothing more than a picture.
you see, you seek to support your argument with nothing more than a
pitiful display of statistical skill.
- firstly, 6 (yeah, i know "a half dozen" sounds like more, but let's
deal with
the numbers aye? a grand total of 6 ) people have expressed a view
that they
don't like the skates design.
- 2 websites... gee the stats are getting more compelling!
- "the vast majority"... the vast majority being 6. i recall a phrase
"100% of
nothing still eqauls nothing". get a real sample for your
investigation, get
a majority that actually counts for something.
- Nobody can work out a good reason? nobody? i see fritz here offering a
few
hypotheticals. what, they couldn't possibly be correct because...
you've seen
a picture of the skate and you know it's crap??
- Me, no not me, i'm not going to try and work out a good reason for the
design.
i'll just stick to asking a few of the questions ...
what the hell would we all be doing if Salomon hadn't stepped up to the
plate and dived headfirst into the inline industry. they challenged the
status quo as far as skate design...?
where would we be if K2 hadn't decided it was worth the punt on a
'radical' looking wierd softboot design?
where is the future of inline design? and if your little crystal ball
knows so much, how come you aren't leading the revolution? i mean
there's got to be some money in there somewhere right?
why is it we encourage r&d but diss a company when they get a little
outside our comfort zone? if they don't push the envelope too far
occasionally, we aren't going to continue to see the revolutionary
designs we have in the past few years.
what drives the inline community? where's the direction coming from?
surely the big companies are allowed to diversify their range a little?
i don't think we'd have the very nice Salomon crossmax if there wasn't a
bit of ingenuity in the industry.
why is it that the minority groups in inline aren't allowed the
development of new concepts for them? maybe some new track 'style' skate
is something that some people actually want. if RB can bring out a skate
that works for them, why the hell not? you see, it seems to me, that if
it's not your kind of inline skating, it's quite simply not inline
skating. ?
does your 'logic' also stand if i was to say that 'at least a half dozen
poeple and a couple of websites' think Bob Car'drone' is getting a
little boring?
'In other words, old man loser, the vast majority of comments about YOU
have been negative'. does that mean you're a dumbass for being on the
wrong side of such an overwhelming majority opinion?...
Bob Cardone wrote:
>
> Ah,
Ilan Vardi
> Ilan Vardi wrote:
> >
> > A fitness skate is most likely to be used very often and therefore
> > fairly frequently in wet conditions, or in other situations which
> > would be deleterious to the bearings, or at least require cleaning
> > them. For that reason, it makes sense to have fairly sturdy bearings
> > as the default. For this reason, the micro-bearings don't seem like
> > a good choice for these particular skates.
>
> ah, now i see.
> >
Well, I did assume that micro-bearing are less sturdy, or at least, more
difficult to maintain.
>
> > By the way, I think that K2 has a much better choice of
> > bearings in their Mod 10 skate. My wife has the same bearings on her
> > Velocity Titanium skate and I can't get over how durable and fast they
> > are compared to all the other bearings I've had. I've have so far been
> > unable to get these separately for my wheels.
>
> what kind are they? (i went to their site for 3 seconds but all i got
> was that they are abec7)
They just say "K2" on them. The outer part is gold and the covers are
green or grey (I'm color blind, sorry). And the bearings are made out of
titanium, which is why the skates are called "Velocity Titanium" (not
for the frame). I have seen bearing sold separately by K2 in stores, but they
are not identical, in particular, the covers are black.
Anyway, I just overhauled her bearings today for the first time in about
6 weeks, and I only had to clean and regrease 4 out of 16. By the way,
she doesn't mind skating in the rain, or the occasional roll through
a puddle. I guess that's what you get when you clean someone else's bearings
for them...
I also used Finish Line "Ecotech" degreaser for the first time and it
was much better than the citrus degreaser I had previously been using
and that came with the Kryptonics cleaning combination set.
-ilan
Ilan Vardi
>
>
> Go to Hyper's web site and send them an Email with that question.
> They would probably be happy to answer it and they should certainly
> know what they are talking about.
I posted this to the Hyper forum
http://www.hyperwheels.com/hyperwheels/html/Forum_New/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=2&CAT_ID=1&Forum_Title=Welcome+to+Hyper%2DRace%2Ecom%21
3 months ago and never got a single response.
-ilan
Bob Cardone
Bob
heather halvorson
Bob Cardone wrote:
>
> Best way is to send them an Email
>
i sent them one last nite, although i'd prefer to hear what people who
don't work for a wheel manufacturer have to say too.
Ilan Vardi
> il...@tonyaharding.org (Ilan Vardi) wrote:
>
> The Corvair was great and doing barrel rolls. Nice quality for an
> aircraft. Not so good for an automobile.
Your evidence? I suggest that the "problem" with the Corvair is that its
rear engine made it oversteer. This is a good characteristic if you know
what you are doing, it's the philosophy behind the Porsche 911, but not
so great if you don't know what you are doing. In particular, if you
are going to fast in a corner, you must not slow down, else you will
break the rear end loose and lose it. This is counter-intuitive.
In conclusion, the Corvair is as unsafe as a Porsche.
>
> See when Consumer Reports tested that vehicle in a Slalom course at
> about 40 MPH. It spent more time on the outriggers than it did on it's
> 4 wheels. Then re-evaluate your comments. It was as tippy as they
> get. That's why it was taken off the market the very next year.
I saw the video and I wasn't impressed. Your statement that "one turn
of the wheel and over they go" doesn't impress me either. Using that
argument, all motorcycles and bicycles should immediately be taken off
the market because the rear brake is "inherently unsafe". In particular,
slam on the rear brake on any motorcyle (that doesn't have ABS) or bicycle
and you will immediately cause the rear wheel to lock and fishtail dangerously.
The point is that driving a vehicle takes some measure of common sense
and uderstanding of the limitations of the vehicle.
As to why the Samurai was taken off the market, it was probably because
of the bad press and the lack of a "Suzuki" lobby. For example, in 1983 I
borrowed a friend's Jeep and he told me about the lawsuit due to people
dying when they rolled this model. Jeep installed a roll bar that was
simply screwed into the frame, so was of not practical value whatsoever,
just for show. A class action suit was filed and
it was settled as follows: Jeep stuck a little note on the dash board
stating: "This vehicle is a truck and not a car, and will behave
differently under certain conditions. Please exercise caution." (I am
paraphrasing.) I saw the note on this model.
Finally, I have a very limited confidence in Consumer Reports. They once
had an issue on road bikes and their opinion was of little value.
I wonder if they ever had an issue rating inline skates. If so, I suggest
you check it out to see what they say.
-ilan
heather halvorson
Ilan Vardi wrote:
>
> They just say "K2" on them. The outer part is gold and the covers are
> green or grey (I'm color blind, sorry). And the bearings are made out of
> titanium, which is why the skates are called "Velocity Titanium" (not
> for the frame). I have seen bearing sold separately by K2 in stores, but they
> are not identical, in particular, the covers are black.
thanks for the description! they don't sound like anything i've ever
seen. too bad, they sound interesting.
> I also used Finish Line "Ecotech" degreaser for the first time and it
> was much better than the citrus degreaser I had previously been using
> and that came with the Kryptonics cleaning combination set.
yes, i use the finish line racing gel in my mini bearings. i love the
syringe applicator. maybe i'll try the degreaser too, if i ever run out
of this huge quantity of lamp oil, that is.
heather
Lord Phynix
<nothe...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
>you don't live in seattle do you?
>
No, I live in a small town in the center of Oregon's Coastline. The
climate here is basically the same as Seattle, though it probably
rains more here, being only about 2 miles of land between the ocean
and the start a major mountain range. Clouds dump the rain on us so
they can get some altitude to clear the mountains.
>
>my main concern is that the wheels i'm saving for a year or so to race
>on are still as fast as a brand new set. if they are going to degrade in
>storage, i'd rather put them on my skates and not put up with training
>on the flat little pucks that masquerade as wheels on my skates now.
>
Well, if you're racing, I'd probably use a new set. We've determined
that it's an unknown factor, so better safe then sorry.
>don't face plant!!!
If only life allowed that to never happen.
>i hope you're not too raw and sore, but i'm glad to hear that you are
>skating again.
Minor road rash, nothing that won't be healed in a day or two more.
I'm still puzzling how I managed not to face plant. Still, not seeing
obstacles like that is one of the prices of night skating.
Motorblade
Not the point at all bob. I never said anything about how "good" they were only
that you say more people are on other brands which is numerically wrong.. Not
all "good" skaters ride expensive skates some people can only afford a less
expensive skates.
You come across as an elitist who has little tolerance for those who do not
agree with you.
You still lack evidence for your claims(of other skate brands dominating) other
than your infallible observations(of what YOU consider "good" skaters) from
your world travels and what skate shop owners said about RB attitude. If you
had called my RB rep (John) you would not have found "arrogance" and he sells
to a 5 state area. Those shop owner comments are a year out of date now and
both comments statistically lack credibility. Your observations of skaters and
comments from shop owners are like your 1/2 dozen people who questioned the
Lightning frame, inthe big picture those numbers are insignificant. You need
much more than that to make a mandate by any stretch of the definition. Your
observations are anecdotes at best and worth mention and comment but they are
not the whole truth.
Have you tried on a pair of lightnings yet?
Did you dremel those cores to see if you can adjust the frame?
Bob Cardone
>>motor...@aol.comnohype (Motorblade) wrote:
>>
>>>I have proved with numbers that RB outsells all other brands so even your
>>>observations fail you.
>>
>>and MacDonalds sells the most burgers, so they have to be good
>>too..and Huffy sells more bikes than anyone, etc etc.....
>>
>
>
>Not the point at all bob. I never said anything about how "good" they were only
>that you say more people are on other brands which is numerically wrong.. Not
>all "good" skaters ride expensive skates some people can only afford a less
>expensive skates.
> You come across as an elitist who has little tolerance for those who do not
>agree with you.
>
Fritz,
we rehash this same argument over and over again. I have stated many
times, and will once more, that when I engage in any sport or hobby ,
be it cycling or skating or flying I look at what the people are
wearing or using or flying etc. I am not looking at the entry level
people , I look at the best I can find. Fritz, that is the reason
that people make money on endorsements. The rest of us want to find
out which skates the NHL player is skating on, which keyboard brand or
guitar the musician in a particular group use, which model Nikes the
basketball player wears,,etc... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to
figure that out. Now the problem with endorsements, is that is all
tainted by the dollar bill. I remember years ago a couple of skaters
that I knew that advertised that they Raced on the Rollerblade Racing
skates. When you would go to an actual race you would see the same
two skaters on a Custom Boot and Custom frame, so the endorsements
were all hogwash. Same goes for NHL players, Nascar drivers, bike
racers, etc... it is all about the what they are getting paid to
say. The endorsements are just examples of being a company " Schill"
So when I skate, I look at what people actually have attached to their
feet, while they are actively engaging in their skating . Maybe it's
snobbish, but I don't look at the beginners , I look at the good
skaters. Many of them I look at skate better than I do, and I see
what brands and models they are wearing. Then when I go skate
shopping, I try those brands and models on first . That is what I
mean by the better skaters. It's not a snob or Elitist thing, it is
wanting to try on what the best have concluded already works. Why
reinvent the wheel? Your logic seems to imply that I should try
the $29 skates they sell in K-Mart, because they sell more of those
than they sell $300 skates? Come on, get real.
So I find myself in Central Park in Manhattan , and Venice Beach, and
South Beach and yes Peidmont Park and the Silver Comet Trail right
here in Hotlanta, looking at what people are skating on. With rare
exception ( get that Fritz, that means it is very rare to see a
good skater skating on something else), I see Salomon and K2 on
people's feet, that are accomplished skaters. The skaters that can
easily stop with the brake, skate fast backwards, do crossovers,
jumps, do the cones forward and backwards at top speed, in other
words they look smooth while skating , relaxed, enjoyable to watch and
skate well.
I will give you an example. In Manhattan's Central Park, there is an
area by the bandshell near 72nd street. Skaters gather there every
weekend . Two of my favorite skaters are a gentlemen that looks to be
around 55. He skates with 3 water bottles stacked on his cap. They
almost never fall off, even though he is doing all kinds of moves on
the skates. He is one of the smoothest skaters I have ever watched.
He used to wear some old Rollerblade Lightnings with paint blotches on
them. Last year he bought a new pair of K2 Flight ALX. There is a
young lady that also skates there every weekend that is fascinating to
watch,. Salmon Skates is what she wears. Another young lady equally
entertaining to watch, Salomons again. No new Rollerblades among the
group of "really good regulars", that I have noticed. ( And remember,
I was noticing rather carefully because I was looking specifically for
Core Carbon wearers because I wanted to discuss pronation with them. )
Same goes for the dance area which is a few blocks away. Again if you
see any RB, they are usually the older models of Lightning and
Aeroblades. All the Inline skaters are using Salomon and K2 and a few
Pics and Custom figure skates with Inline Wheels.
Since last year I have seen one pair of Core Carbons worn by a
skater in Atlanta, a young lady, and she since has switched to 5 wheel
Bonts. So far I haven't seen any 2002 Rollerblades on anyone's feet,
although Rollerblade states that they have been shipped and the stores
should have them ( friend of mine called the 800 number last week. )
I have seen a couple of pairs of Salomon 2002 and one pair of K2 2002
in Peidmont Park.
>You still lack evidence for your claims(of other skate brands dominating) other
>than your infallible observations(of what YOU consider "good" skaters) from
>your world travels and what skate shop owners said about RB attitude. If you
>had called my RB rep (John) you would not have found "arrogance" and he sells
>to a 5 state area. Those shop owner comments are a year out of date now and
>both comments statistically lack credibility. Your observations of skaters and
>comments from shop owners are like your 1/2 dozen people who questioned the
>Lightning frame, inthe big picture those numbers are insignificant. You need
>much more than that to make a mandate by any stretch of the definition. Your
>observations are anecdotes at best and worth mention and comment but they are
>not the whole truth.
>
The 1/2 dozen people that questioned the Lightning frame are the
people that posted on this newsgroup and another web site with
comments about the weirdness of the frame. Someone remarked that it
was ONLY 1/2 dozen. Well there haven't been that many posts on the
Lightning yet. What do you want, 2,000 negative statements to draw a
conclusion that maybe the frame is really weird. It should only take
one comment if you are objective enough to give the frame a really
good and unbiased look at the bottom of the 09 frame, and the ground
clearance and then try to imagine some minimal wheel wear on the $12
wheels causing the frame to contact the ground. Then the $120 wheel
change rears it's ugly head. You can see that in the picture of the
skate, Fritz. You ever hear the expression , A PICTURE IS WORTH A
THOUSAND WORDS? That is what I and the other people that had negative
comments on the frame, based our conclusions from, the picture that
was done by RB's advertising department. I am sure that they wanted
the picture to minimize any flaws in design and customer concerns
about the frame, and wanted to have the skate displayed in it's
optimal configuration.
http://64.224.97.233/rb2002c/lightning09.html
I know, you are going to say next , " Well the only way to really
judge the skate is to skate on them ., you can't tell problems from a
picture " ( trying on won't work because this frame issue won't be
apparent until after you put some wear on the wheels. ) Of course, we
all know that in order to do that one is going to have to shell out
$400+ for the privilege cause no dealer lets you skate on skates for
awhile and bring them back for a refund, a week or two later because
you hear scrapping sounds. They will laugh you out of the store. I
can hear you now, " Well why did you buy them if you thought they
would be a problem, that's your own fault? "
>Have you tried on a pair of lightnings yet?
>
See above paragraph. I am waiting to check out the Lightning 05
skates, but the dealer doesn't have them yet. When I see the 09 , I
am also going to carefully measure the wheel material, and the
minimal ground clearance of the frame and see if I can predict how
long the average skater can skate on them before the ground contact
begins.
>Did you dremel those cores to see if you can adjust the frame?
>
Not yet, been busy skating on my Catalysts. Weather is going to be 75
today.
Bob
Motorblade
If you ever make it to Austin , look me up, we should skate.
"fritz"
The Austin Chronicle Features: A Life on Wheels
Matthew Russotto
Ilan Vardi <il...@tonyaharding.org> wrote:
>Bob Cardone <cardone1!@!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<0e3l9uc48ji56mnmo...@4ax.com>...
>> il...@tonyaharding.org (Ilan Vardi) wrote:
>>
>> The Corvair was great and doing barrel rolls. Nice quality for an
>> aircraft. Not so good for an automobile.
>
>Your evidence? I suggest that the "problem" with the Corvair is that its
>rear engine made it oversteer.
Two words: swing axle. The suspension geometry resulted in radical
changes in camber under cornering loads.
--
Matthew T. Russotto mrus...@speakeasy.net
=====
Dmitry is free, but the DMCA survives. DMCA delenda est!
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue."
heather halvorson
here's their reply:
----------------
Wheels do tend to get harder over time. It really just matters where they
are stored.
Thanks,
Jon Elliott
Hyper Race
----------------
hmm. wonder what the best method of storage is? i keep mine in a plastic
bin, with a lid on it.
heather
Edward Dike, III
That seems an odd response, given there was no elaboration, or advice.
I wonder what kind of time line they are considering. It would be
interesting to know the typical shelf time their wheels endure.
I just got a deal on a bunch of bank robbers, so I am set for about 3
years... I think...
My only thoughts would be to keep them out of sunlight, as I believe
Ultraviolet light will eventually destroy any organic compound. Keeping
them away from chemical fumes, excessive levels of oxygen/ozone, high
eat( @ room temp or less), high moisture will help keep them at least
physically intact- not losing material off the surface/splitting/cracking.
The bin sounds like a good idea. Bicycle tires will last a long time if
kept in a sealed container, but those are of a different compound...
ED3
Bob Cardone
>In article <6c8faec2.02032...@posting.google.com>,
>Ilan Vardi <il...@tonyaharding.org> wrote:
>>Bob Cardone <cardone1!@!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<0e3l9uc48ji56mnmo...@4ax.com>...
>>> il...@tonyaharding.org (Ilan Vardi) wrote:
>>>
>>> The Corvair was great and doing barrel rolls. Nice quality for an
>>> aircraft. Not so good for an automobile.
>>
>>Your evidence? I suggest that the "problem" with the Corvair is that its
>>rear engine made it oversteer.
>
>Two words: swing axle. The suspension geometry resulted in radical
>changes in camber under cornering loads.
Basically the rear wheel folded under the car and it tripped over the
rear wheel if I remember correctly.
Bob
Bob Cardone
a bit more detail than that ( like one or two paragraphs) , Unless
the guy that wrote the email works in the shipping department.
Bob
Matthew Russotto
Bob Cardone <cardone1!@!mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>Basically the rear wheel folded under the car and it tripped over the
>rear wheel if I remember correctly.
That was one theory, but I believe it was disproved; it wasn't that
extreme. It oversteered badly and could roll untripped, but it wouldn't
self-trip.
--
Matthew T. Russotto mrus...@speakeasy.net
=====
Every time you buy a CD, a programmer is kicked in the teeth.
Every time you buy or rent a DVD, a programmer is kicked where it counts.
Every time they kick a programmer, 1000 users are kicked too, and harder.
A proposed US law called the CBDTPA would ban the PC as we know it.
This is not a joke, not an exaggeration. This is real.
http://www.cryptome.org/broadbandits.htm
heather halvorson
"Edward Dike, III" wrote:
>
> heather halvorson <nothe...@attbi.com> wrote in message
>
> I just got a deal on a bunch of bank robbers, so I am set for about 3
> years... I think...
if it's not too nosey of a question, how many wheels is that? are you
going to make a big pile out of them on the bed and roll around on them?
> My only thoughts would be to keep them out of sunlight, as I believe
> Ultraviolet light will eventually destroy any organic compound. Keeping
> them away from chemical fumes, excessive levels of oxygen/ozone, high
> eat( @ room temp or less), high moisture will help keep them at least
> physically intact- not losing material off the surface/splitting/cracking.
> The bin sounds like a good idea. Bicycle tires will last a long time if
> kept in a sealed container, but those are of a different compound...
> ED3
i'll try to do all those things.
i always noticed that new wheels seemed a lot more "springy" compared to
old, worn-down wheels. i used to wonder if they used a different
compound closer to the core. now i'm thinking that it was just hardening
due to all the factors you mentioned above. anyways, it ain't good when
your wheels start making a slapping sound with every stroke.
after all this stuff, i think i'm going to start using one of my unused
sets that i've had for over a year. woohoo!
heather
B Fuhrmann
> | here's their reply:
> | ----------------
> | Wheels do tend to get harder over time. It really just matters where
they
> | are stored.
You got an answer but not much of one. However, you do have a name with an
address that can be used for follow-up.
With enough questions, you might even be able to get a useful amount of
information.
B Fuhrmann
> >>>
> >>> The Corvair was great and doing barrel rolls. Nice quality for an
> >>> aircraft. Not so good for an automobile.
> >>
> >>Your evidence? I suggest that the "problem" with the Corvair is that its
> >>rear engine made it oversteer.
> >
> >Two words: swing axle. The suspension geometry resulted in radical
> >changes in camber under cornering loads.
"Bob Cardone" <cardone1!@!mindspring.com> wrote
> Basically the rear wheel folded under the car and it tripped over the
> rear wheel if I remember correctly.
It's main problem was a person who needed employment and used it to make a
name for himself. The car didn't have a significantly different safety
record than other cars of it's era.
The "wheel folding" isn't a problem in normal driving or even most
emergencies.
If you corner hard enough that would lift a wheel off the ground, the swing
axle can lower farther and leave the wheel on the ground. At that point,
since it is describing a circle around its pivot, it is closer in to the car
and tilted in at the bottom.
If you then steer hard back in the other direction and the "folded" tire
keeps its traction, the car can be lifted up and over the wheel causing it
to roll.
SCCA requires cars with this type of axle to have a device to limit the
travel of the swing axle when they are racing so that this doesn't happen.
Racing or autocross competitors tend to have tires that stick much better
than street tires and push the car much harder than people do on the street.
I have yet to see a car on the street that is cornering to the point where a
wheel is off the ground.
Many of the small cars that you see on the street are well known for going
around corners with a wheel 6 inches off the ground in autocross. If you go
to an event you will see that this is the normal stance for them around
corners.
I have video tape of my Fiero (before I bought it, the driver is very good)
with the front tire slightly off the ground in a corner.
heather halvorson
B Fuhrmann wrote:
>
>
> You got an answer but not much of one. However, you do have a name with an
> address that can be used for follow-up.
>
> With enough questions, you might even be able to get a useful amount of
> information.
this is true.
i don't really want to bother hyper with more questions though. i think
they'd prefer things like "where can i buy hyper wheels" and "what kind
of hyper wheels should i buy". not weirdo questions about the
interaction of urethane with the environment. otherwise i'm thinking
they would have sent me a longer email in the first place. if other
people want to bother them about it, i'm all for it. it's just not my thing.
heather
daveparc
burned by some defective Explore Evolve wheels that I got from a
Matzger clinic last year. They were slow right from the start and I
am wondering if their problem was that they were old because they did
seem harder and had less bounce than the Hyper Bankrobbers that I
replaced them with.
As to my personal feelings about the new RB Lightning frame, I think
that the frame wrapping underneath like that will be great for
scooping up stones and wedging them between the frame and wheel. I
have to believe that Rollerblade's thinking on this one is that
skating is not exciting enough so they decided to add that to the
frame to add an element of risk to the sport. What could be more
exciting then having a wheel lock up at 20 mph.
But I don't pay attention to that category of skates. I am a total
skate snob that would not be caught dead wearing anything but a top of
the line speed or hockey boot. I just can't stand the sloppy,
sluggish, and heavy feel of plastic skate boots. But I still love
them since if all you could get was leather skate boots I am pretty
sure many of my friends would not skate.
Dave
CDS Detroit
Bob Cardone <cardone1!@!mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<pilv9ugoolovf4hg4...@4ax.com>...
Edward Dike, III
daveparc <dave...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bc8c6ee1.02032...@posting.google.com...
| It would be nice to know what the shelf life of wheels are. I got
| burned by some defective Explore Evolve wheels that I got from a
| Matzger clinic last year. They were slow right from the start and I
| am wondering if their problem was that they were old because they did
| seem harder and had less bounce than the Hyper Bankrobbers that I
| replaced them with.
|
burned by some defective Explore Evolve wheels that I got from a
While I don't consider myself burned; as the wheels were 'free', and I
can't say if they were defective, or just poor wheels.
But I had the same experience with the Explore wheels I got from Eddy's
clinic 2 years ago; hard/, slow, wore down quickly. That was my first, and
only experience with Explore wheels, not the best PR on somebody's part.
ED3
Jim A
on the loop...
Bob Cardone
>
>As to my personal feelings about the new RB Lightning frame, I think
>that the frame wrapping underneath like that will be great for
>scooping up stones and wedging them between the frame and wheel. I
>have to believe that Rollerblade's thinking on this one is that
>skating is not exciting enough so they decided to add that to the
>frame to add an element of risk to the sport. What could be more
>exciting then having a wheel lock up at 20 mph.
LOL
Well I still think it is a trick to sell $12 replacement wheels.
After about 80 miles of skating you will have enough wheel wear to
have those protrusions scraping the ground and you will have to
replace all the wheels at a cost of about $120 for the 5 wheel model..
It would probably be cheaper to drive a large SUV :)
Bob
Bob Cardone
>Bob if you're looking in the bandshell at CP, you're in the wrong place..stay
>on the loop...
Looking for what?????
kevin j laber
> dave...@yahoo.com (daveparc) wrote:
> The al. wrap actually keeps everything out of the frame (small twigs) (rocks) for a detailed summary of all your lightning questions check out my post when it shows up later
kevin laber @ rollerblade inc
daveparc
Well I did not consider them free since they are part of what you get
for the fee, but that is not really the point. I got burned by using
them in two races before I realized that it was not me that was
sucking it was the wheels. Of course it was my inexperience as a
racer which allowed me to go that long on them before realizing the
problem, but I trusted that I would be getting a good product. Oh
well live and learn and what I have learned is always race on a fresh
but tested set of Hyper race wheels. I can't figure out what Explore
is thinking in their promoting Matzger's clinics. If I had gotten
some of their top of the line race wheels at the clinic and had liked
them that may have turned me into a customer. But with the experience
that I have had I won't ever put Explores on my skates again.
Dave
CDS Detroit
"Edward Dike, III" <edd3R...@qwest.net> wrote in message news:<WNto8.246$g04....@news.uswest.net>...
heather halvorson
daveparc wrote:
>
> I can't figure out what Explore
> is thinking in their promoting Matzger's clinics. If I had gotten
> some of their top of the line race wheels at the clinic and had liked
> them that may have turned me into a customer.
i know that up until last year-ish, their elites only came with mini
bearing hubs (afaik, at least)
that could be part of the explanation for giving out evolves. when i
took the clinic, we got 608 bearings, so it makes sense to provide
wheels that fit them.
that's just my musings, don't really know the real answer.
heather