Michelle Kwan on the Tonight Show
Janice Schnell
It was a great interview and I loved hearing Jay acknowledge that Michelle is a
true champion, both on and off the ice.
Janice
"Michelle's a nice person. When I was younger, she was always warm toward me.
It's nice with someone you've looked up to your whole life that they don't
disappoint you." Sarah Hughes on Michelle Kwan quoted from a Newsday article on
2/3/2002.
CKilyanek
I always knew Michelle was beautiful, but tonight she was absolutely stunning.
It was a great interview and I loved hearing Jay acknowledge that Michelle is a
true champion, both on and off the ice.
Janice
>>
She did look absolutely stunning, didn't she? And it was a very sweet
interview.
Thanks to whoever posted the message that she would be on.
Carol
Locutus of Borg
The following is IMHAVAO:
People disparage Jay Leno for his monologues, but the way he handled that
interview was masterful. Just masterful. He was complimentary to the point that
MK almost looked like she was going to lose it early, he was light and
conversational, and he pretty deftly hit on all the important points in a
relatively short time span.
Gotta love the kid (okay, she's not a "kid" any more...) MK was fabulous, from
the myriad of facial expressions and tones of voice, down to the "funking out"
when the reference to Michael Jackson happened. She's come a very long way from
that first Leno appearance - was that back in 1996?
Very nice. Next up: the Pauley taped interview Sunday night - the one MK is at
the mercy o' the editors regarding how she'll be portrayed. I hope it's
positive rather than pathetic (which was the perception given of Kerrigan after
she got home - remember the interview when she cried on camera? Wasn't that
Pauley, too?)
Peg
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Janice Schnell
>interview was masterful.
I have always found Leno to be a better interviewer than Letterman.
MGC.
news:20020301094419...@mb-cu.aol.com:
>>People disparage Jay Leno for his monologues, but the way he handled
>>that interview was masterful.
>
> I have always found Leno to be a better interviewer than Letterman.
> Janice
Leno just fawns over his guests. They're never real interviews -- just
scripted and superficial; a way for guests to plug their latest pet
projects.
Mel G G
I completely agree, Michelle looked wonderful and was very gracious and
personable throughout the interview.
She has a very humorous side to her that for whatever reasons the skating
world rarely shows us. I suppose it's because she has dodo birds as
interviewers who do anything to make her *uncomfortable* and on the spot in
front of the camera.
Jay Leno was great. He even sounded like he knew he what he was talking
about :-)
*Melissa
Robert Dister
jani...@aol.commotion (Janice Schnell) wrote:
> I always knew Michelle was beautiful, but tonight she was absolutely
> stunning.
> It was a great interview and I loved hearing Jay acknowledge that Michelle is
> a
> true champion, both on and off the ice.
>
>
And unless my ears deceived me, Michelle said she'd be skating at Worlds
(not that we should be surprised). :)
Bob
Lorrie Kim
Robert Dister <india...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>And unless my ears deceived me, Michelle said she'd be skating at Worlds
>(not that we should be surprised). :)
No, we shouldn't. :-) Kwan always goes to Worlds.
I think last night on Leno might be the most beautiful I have ever
seen her on television. That glowing skin. THAT DRESS. Wow wow wow.
The rueful expressions and the feelings all on the surface.
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
sjjohnston
> I have always found Leno to be a better interviewer than Letterman.
> Janice
>
> "Michelle's a nice person. When I was younger, she was always warm toward me.
> It's nice with someone you've looked up to your whole life that they don't
> disappoint you." Sarah Hughes on Michelle Kwan quoted from a Newsday article on
> 2/3/2002.
If this thread is about Kwan, she was poised and likable.
If it's about Leno and Letterman: Leno is good at making the guests
look good; Letterman is funnier (which may involve laughing with or at
guests, as appropriate).
Tracy Johnson
> I think last night on Leno might be the most beautiful I have ever
> seen her on television. That glowing skin. THAT DRESS. Wow wow wow.
> The rueful expressions and the feelings all on the surface.
Gee, I'm really sorry I missed this. I'd at least like to see her dress...
Anyone know of any pictures online?
Tracy
Janice Schnell
>Anyone know of any pictures online?
>
>Tracy
An intrepid fan has done a realvideo of the interview. You can find the link
here:
http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforummkfanchat.showMessage?topicID=12
229.topic
MGC.
news:bd55cec0.02030...@posting.google.com:
> jani...@aol.commotion (Janice Schnell) wrote in message
> news:<20020301094419...@mb-cu.aol.com>...
>> I have always found Leno to be a better interviewer than Letterman.
>> Janice
>>
>> "Michelle's a nice person. When I was younger, she was always warm
>> toward me. It's nice with someone you've looked up to your whole life
>> that they don't disappoint you." Sarah Hughes on Michelle Kwan quoted
>> from a Newsday article on 2/3/2002.
>
> If this thread is about Kwan, she was poised and likable.
I agree.
Leno was also warm and sincere and did a great job making Michelle feel
comfortable and appreciated.
The only reservation I might have about the interview is the Cohen bumping
into Michelle thing. I thought it was an unnecessary dis (albeit a very
mild one, if even that), although, it was probably scripted to be only in
fun and nothing more.
> If it's about Leno and Letterman: Leno is good at making the guests
> look good; Letterman is funnier (which may involve laughing with or at
> guests, as appropriate).
Yup.
Tracy Johnson
> >Gee, I'm really sorry I missed this. I'd at least like to see her dress...
> >Anyone know of any pictures online?
> >
> >Tracy
>
> An intrepid fan has done a realvideo of the interview. You can find the link
> here:
>
> http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforummkfanchat.showMessage?topicID=12
> 229.topic
> Hanice
Thanks *very* much for the link, Janice!
Tracy
Cmquik
It confirmed all of my high opinions of Michelle (and I've always liked Leno
anyway.) The dress was gorgeous. I particularly got a kick out of Michelle
doing Chris Tucker's signature head slide and Chris missing it.
toonces
absolutely stunning.
It was a great interview and I loved hearing Jay acknowledge that Michelle is a
true champion, both on and off the ice>>>
Which show are you referring to? I have the 2/28 (which it sounds like you are
referring to) show taped and it is a rerun. Did you mean 2/27?
Thanks!
Toonces (the driving cat)
Gr8tful4aug1
>into Michelle thing. I thought it was an unnecessary dis
Yes, but Michele will continue to learn her lesson. She is jealous that Sasha
is already a much more accomplished skater than she. More important, Sasha has
a very good chance to win an Olympic gold medal. Michele will always be a
loser.
Rory
Gr8tful4aug1
THAT NOSE - needs attending to by a qualified plastic surgeon - pronto!
Rory
Janice Schnell
>are
>referring to) show taped and it is a rerun. Did you mean 2/27?
>Thanks!
>Toonces (the driving cat)
The one with Michelle on the Tonight Show aired last night (2/28) was not a
repeat. There were a couple of people from the Michelle Kwan Forum that got
2nd row seats and reported back everything that happened last night after the
taping.
Roaz
>From: "MGC." M...@anonx.com
>Date: 3/1/2002 10:56 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <Xns91C48DC5D50E2M...@64.8.50.12>
Sometimes the guests he's trying to laugh at get the better of him. Michael
Richards and Pauly Shore, for example.
DesertRoaz
Frame of reference is everything.
Fiona McQuarrie
:>The only reservation I might have about the interview is the Cohen bumping
: Yes, but Michele will continue to learn her lesson. She is jealous that Sasha
: is already a much more accomplished skater than she. M
Please, O Trollish One, enlighten us as to how you know what is going on
in Michelle's head.
Fiona
Kaiju
Lorrie Kim wrote:
> No, we shouldn't. :-) Kwan always goes to Worlds.
> I think last night on Leno might be the most beautiful I have ever
> seen her on television. That glowing skin. THAT DRESS. Wow wow wow.
> The rueful expressions and the feelings all on the surface.
I saw that dress on an celeb recently...I want to say Sela Ward, maybe.
To be honest, it looked better on Michelle. Too fresh! She looked
fabulous. Heck. SHE was fabulous. She's all growed up!
Kaiju
--
Context is everything...
nemo me impune lacessit
Susan Stone Wilbanks
"Janice Schnell" <jani...@aol.commotion> wrote in message
news:20020301094419...@mb-cu.aol.com...
> >People disparage Jay Leno for his monologues, but the way he handled that
> >interview was masterful.
>
> I have always found Leno to be a better interviewer than Letterman
It's a matter of taste, I think. I never watch Leno except when I'm
interested in a specific guest, but from that limited sample it seems like
Letterman interacts with his guests more, while Leno just kind of sits back
and prompts them occasionally, mostly letting them do a monologue. I
enjoyed watching Michelle last night and though she came across as poised,
attractive, witty, and sportsmanlike, but I still wished she'd been on
Letterman instead--I'd like to see how her personality would bounce off
Dave's.
Your Late Night Host Choice May Vary.
--Susan
BaleofAKS
But Leno also throws puff balls at those guests who should be asked hard
questions....Leno's interview with Bush was pathetic (as was the recent Cheney
interview).
LB
Bale...@AOL.com
Websurfer
http://www.michellekwan.net/leno/
Janice Schnell
>questions....Leno's interview with Bush was pathetic (as was the recent
>Cheney
>interview).
>
>LB
Unlike Letterman with Clinton and Gore? But frankly, I don't think either of
them should do hardball political interviews. Late night television is for
entertainment. I was entertained last night.
Letterman is often rude to his guests. People may find that edgy or funny. I
don't. I just find it rude.
Leno allowed Michelle's natural personality to show. He did the same with
Chris Tucker. It's not something I generally see when Letterman interviews his
guests. Shrug - YMMV
toonces
(2/28) was not a
repeat. There were a couple of people from the Michelle Kwan Forum that got
2nd row seats and reported back everything that happened last night after the
taping. >>>
Thanks so much Janice. I found it after realizing my TIVO tapes all Lenos which
on satellite is a few per night.
Michelle is so poised - and funny too. She was more comfortable than most of
the people I've seen with Jay. Jay seemed so comfortable with her as well and
you could tell that he is a real fan.
When saying goodbye to his audience he said thank you to his guests "thank you
to Train, Michelle Kwan *our olympic champion* , and Chris Tucker".
I liked his choice of words.
Toonces (the driving cat)
Janice Schnell
>you
>to Train, Michelle Kwan *our olympic champion* , and Chris Tucker".
>I liked his choice of words.
>
Me, too. A gold medal does not make a champion. She really was terrific on
the show. I've kept it for posterity.
Gr8tful4aug1
medal.
Rory
BaleofAKS
Actually, Letterman was universally praised for asking tough questions in his
interviews with both Gore and Bush. He didn't let either one of them get away
with "sound bites". If I correctly recall, Newsweek applauded Letterman's
interview with Bush by stating "Letterman did more homework for the [session]
than the actual news media."
>But frankly, I don't think either of
>them should do hardball political interviews.
Agreed. But once in a while, I do enjoy a little political conversation in
late night....like Carson and Cavett used to do. It's a nice change of pace
from people who want to plug their latest movie or song. :-)
>Letterman is often rude to his guests. People may find that edgy or funny.
>I
>don't. I just find it rude.
I politely disagree. I think people remember the "old, cranky, Dave" --
Letterman really has grown as an interviewer (hence why he has three Emmys in a
row). He will, however, not let someone get away with PR fluff (paging Shirley
McClaine <g>).
OB Skating: Michelle has appeared on both Leno and Letterman, and each time,
she was a wonderful representative of our sport.
LB
Bale...@AOL.com
Janice Schnell
>
> Jack
>
Yeah, I'm for real. I like my champions to accomplish more than one
competition. I also don't consider fluke winners champions. Sarah was in
fourth after the short for a reason. Her "difficult" 3 (f)lutz/2 loop put her
there. She probably should have been lower. Ditto for Cohen, but Cohen
probably has some areas that gave her better brownie points.
SoonerDog
>They're insulting to the real olympic champions; and maybe even to Kwan,
>simply because she isn't one.
She has two Olympic medals. How is she not an Olympic champion? How many
other people on earth have ONE Olympic medal, let alone TWO?
Geez.
Raul Moreno
family live and have not heard a good thing about them.Just one look at
the way her family was during her skate this year should be enough to
tell you that.They were all stone faced,no expression of joy or
sadness just nothing.That is the way they are in person.When her family
was still running their
resturant,I went a few times and was always treated very cold by her
family,as was anyone that ate at that place.Not only that,the food was
not that good.Since she was a "local girl" and I love ice skating,I went
to support her.But I was turned off when I finally met her last
year.Just very cold and could care less about her fans.
On the other hand,I met Sarah Hughes at the
Grammy Awards and she was just a doll.Very funny,cute and just happy to
be noticed.
I worked with Tara Lapinski during her summer stint on Young and the
Restless and she was just a normal girl,very nice and loved talking.
I know I may get some hate mail over my
statements about Kwan,but as they say
"the truth hurts".Sorry to to be so negative about MK,but this is what I
have seen as mave many others who live in the South Bay of
Los Angeles County.
Stay Safe,
Raul
San Pedro,Ca
"There are over three thousand cops in this city and I'm damned proud I
am one of them"
Jack Webb as Joe Friday on Dragnet
"I would give half my salary to play in this dump every day" Babe Ruth
on Wrigley Field,Chicago
Brandon Ray
SoonerDog wrote:
Not many.
Look, I don't have a dog in this fight, and I'm afraid everyone's starting to
quibble over a puffy introduction by an entertainment host. But High Flight
is right. You're a champion when you win, not when you place or show. I got
no problem with people calling Michelle Kwan a champion, in generally --
she's one nationals, she's won worlds. But she is NOT an olympic champion,
because she has never won that event.
Joelle
>fourth after the short for a reason.
So according to you, the judges were correct when they placed her fourth in the
short program...
>She probably should have been lower.
But when the same judges placed her first for the long program...now what--they
all got drunk between the two programs???
You know, I consider Michelle Kwan a champion and believe she will achieve the
legendhood (albeit a bittersweet legend but the best ones are) she longs
for...but it's really not necesary to demean Sarah's accomplishment in order in
order to place Michelle in high esteem. In fact, to do so diminishes Michelle
in a way.
Joelle
If you want to make God laugh, tell him what you are doing tomorrow
Father Mike
Teddi Litman
Brandon Ray wrote:
>
>
> Not many.
>
> Look, I don't have a dog in this fight, and I'm afraid everyone's starting to
> quibble over a puffy introduction by an entertainment host.
Did Leno even call Michelle an "Olympic Champion" though? I could have sworn he
called her an "Olympic Medalist." I noticed that because he deliberately left off
the colors of the medals she won. I just wish people wouldn't think Olympic Bronz
and Olympic Silver are somehow embarrassments. Leno seemed to be wanting to spare
Michelle embarrassment by naming the colors of her medals. He shouldn't have.
Michelle has nothing to be embarrassed about.
Gr8tful4aug1
>because she has never won that event.
>
And never will. Within 5 years, she'll be a forgotten has-been. LOL!!!
Rory
Gr8tful4aug1
>probably has some areas that gave her better brownie points.
Actually, it was Cohen who deserved the bronze medal; her LP was far better
than Michele's pathetic attempt.
Rory
Brandon Ray
Gr8tful4aug1 wrote:
I am skeptical that she will be able to compete and win a medal in 2006.
But she is not a has been, and will not be soon forgotten. That's just
silly.
Brandon Ray
Teddi Litman wrote:
I agree. And I don't know what Leno said -- I was just responding to what others
reported he said. But you are absolutely right -- Michelle Kwan is a great
performer, and has nothing to be ashamed of. And if Leno called her an "olympic
medalist" that is perfectly appropriate and correct.
Gr8tful4aug1
She will be a has-been within a few short years.
>will not be soon forgotten
Depends on your definition of "soon." It might take as long as 8 years for her
to be a has-been ... but she's sure to achieve that status. <g>
Rory
Locutus of Borg
>Well,she is NOT that nice.I live near the area where Michelle and her
>family live and have not heard a good thing about them.Just one look at
>the way her family was during her skate this year should be enough to
>tell you that.They were all stone faced,no expression of joy or
>sadness just nothing.That is the way they are in person.When her family
>was still running their
>resturant,I went a few times and was always treated very cold by her
>family,as was anyone that ate at that place.Not only that,the food was
>not that good.Since she was a "local girl" and I love ice skating,I went
>to support her.But I was turned off when I finally met her last
>year.Just very cold and could care less about her fans.
Nice try. It was a very classic chum program. You know, I've been expecting one
of these. (You might not be aware that reality is different from the above, and
people here know that.)
>On the other hand,I met Sarah Hughes at the
>Grammy Awards and she was just a doll.Very funny,cute and just happy to
>be noticed.
>I worked with Tara Lapinski during her summer stint on Young and the
>Restless and she was just a normal girl,very nice and loved talking.
Oh, you've got all the required elements in. Very nice job. Nice touch to bring
in those skaters who you perceive to be "better" because of that piece of
interlinked-rinked hardware. But awfully predictable. Tsk.
>I know I may get some hate mail over my
>statements about Kwan,but as they say
>"the truth hurts".Sorry to to be so negative about MK,but this is what I
>have seen as mave many others who live in the South Bay of
>Los Angeles County.
Oh!!! You fell on the final element. Calling up the unseen masses who agree
with your negative POV... it's supposed to be unseen *email* support, silly,
not that.
I'm sorry, I'll have to give you 3.9, 3.5 for that effort.
And your bonus prize? A resounding "plonk". Thanks for playing.
Peg
==
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Gr8tful4aug1
>
She has PLENTY to be embarrassed about. She is a failure. And she has
absolutely no other skills. In a few years, she'll probably be waiting tables
in her family's restaurant.
Rory
MGC.
> SoonerDog <soon...@aol.com> says...
>>>They're insulting to the real olympic champions; and maybe even to
>>>Kwan, simply because she isn't one.
>>
>> She has two Olympic medals. How is she not an Olympic champion?
>
> Do you live in a cave? Do you have -any- education beyond watching
> cartoons? I'll make it real simple for you: she is not an Olympic
> champion because she has never won an Olympic event.
I think the word "champion" has a broader meaning than just coming in #1
in an event.
MGC.
news:20020302205414...@mb-cc.aol.com:
Nah.. if worst comes to worst, she can live comfortably on the interest
earned on her millions.
MGC.
@storefull-2318.public.lawson.webtv.net:
> Well,she is NOT that nice.I live near the area where Michelle and her
> family live and have not heard a good thing about them.Just one look
at
> the way her family was during her skate this year should be enough to
> tell you that.They were all stone faced,no expression of joy or
> sadness just nothing.That is the way they are in person.When her
family
> was still running their
> resturant,I went a few times and was always treated very cold by her
> family,as was anyone that ate at that place.Not only that,the food was
> not that good.Since she was a "local girl" and I love ice skating,I
went
> to support her.
Maybe her family is "cold" and "expressionless". So what? Maybe they
don't take to strangers very well (Perhaps they need some coaching on
how to schmooze the public..). But what does that have to do with
Michelle?..
> But I was turned off when I finally met her last
> year.Just very cold and could care less about her fans.
What did Michelle do, exactly?
Janice Schnell
>order to place Michelle in high esteem. In fact, to do so diminishes
>Michelle
>in a way.
I like Sarah. I like Sarah's skating. I just don't think she is there yet. I
don't think her level of skating is representative of what I consider an
Olympic Champion. There are several skaters that I think are far better than
she. It's my opinion.
She won the gold. I'm fine with that. She got lucky - she could have been
fifth after the short and Irina Slutskaya would be Olympic Champion. Or Irina
could have been first in the SP and still she would have been Olympic Champion.
>But when the same judges placed her first for the long program...now
>what--they
>all got drunk between the two programs???
>
Not what I said at all. Yes, Sarah placed first in the LP, however, the
ordinals were mixed. And there was good reason for them to be mixed. Her win
was no slam dunk.
I think people are holding up "Olympic Gold Medalist" as some measure of
greatness. Usually, the great Olympic champions were already accomplished in
their sport. Greatness comes from a lifetime of achievements.
Sarah is the Olympic gold medalist - but that doesn't mean Irina and Michelle
are any less Olympic champions. YMMV.
Gr8tful4aug1
>earned on her millions.
>
>
Not really. Wealthier people than she have become nearly penniless. And now
that she has once again failed at winning a gold medal, her earnings potential
will decline dramatically.
I hope that she's better at waitressing than she was at skating. <g>
Rory
Gr8tful4aug1
>in an event.
>
Whether it does or not, only one word can apply to Michele: Olympic gold
medal LOSER.
Rory
MJsk8
>I
>don't think her level of skating is representative of what I consider an
>Olympic Champion.
But she is the Olympic champion.
> There are several skaters that I think are far better than
>she. It's my opinion.
Perhaps there are.
>She won the gold
Yes, she did.That is how the game is played. After all is said and done and all
the marks were tallied, according to the rules, she won the gold.
>She got lucky
Anyone that wins an Olympic gold medal is pretty lucky
>she could have been
>fifth after the short and Irina Slutskaya would be Olympic Champion. Or
>Irina
>could have been first in the SP and still she would have been Olympic
>Champion.
All sorts of other scenarios could have happened. They didn't.
>Yes, Sarah placed first in the LP, however, the
>ordinals were mixed. And there was good reason for them to be mixed. Her
>win
>was no slam dunk.
Matters not. The rules are there to have a final result.
>I think people are holding up "Olympic Gold Medalist" as some measure of
>greatness.
It is pretty special.
> Usually, the great Olympic champions were already accomplished in
>their sport
And sometimes a longshot wins. Isn't that exciting. I thought so. It provides
inspiration and hope to everyone that competes.
> Greatness comes from a lifetime of achievements.
>
I have to agree with you on that one.
>Sarah is the Olympic gold medalist - but that doesn't mean Irina and Michelle
>are any less Olympic champions.
I think champion means the winner, but Irina and Michelle certainly are lovely
accomplished ladies that have everything in the world to be proud of.
MaryJo
Erin White
Thanks Peg. I was so busy being impressed by this fellow's hobnobbing (worked on
Y&R, went to the Grammy's), and wondering where exactly the South Bay of Los
Angeles County is, I scarcely noticed that the rest of the post stank like a bait
bucket in July.
Tink *~*~*
--
"Conquer the mountain, dude!"
Erin White
from dictionary.com
cham搆i搗n Pronunciation Key (chmp-n)
n.
1.One that wins first place or first prize in a competition.
2.One that is clearly superior or has the attributes of a winner: a
champion at teaching.
3.An ardent defender or supporter of a cause or another person: a
champion of the homeless.
4.One who fights; a warrior.
As per definition number 4., Michelle Kwan is an Olympic Champion.
Janice Schnell
>
>cham搆i搗n Pronunciation Key (chmp-n)
> n.
>
> 1.One that wins first place or first prize in a competition.
> 2.One that is clearly superior or has the attributes of a winner: a
>champion at teaching.
> 3.An ardent defender or supporter of a cause or another person: a
>champion of the homeless.
> 4.One who fights; a warrior.
>
>As per definition number 4., Michelle Kwan is an Olympic Champion.
>
>Tink *~*~*
>--
>"Conquer the mountain, dude!"
I'd give her #2, as well.
OperettaJK
>Do you live in a cave? Do you have -any- education beyond watching
>cartoons? I'll make it real simple for you: she is not an Olympic
>champion because she has never won an Olympic event.
My question to you: can you understand plain English? Jay Leno called Michelle:
"OUR Olympic Champion". He's clearly saying he and others disagreed with
judges' decision of awarding the Oly gold medal to Sarah Hughes. Perhaps he
thought Michelle should have been scored higher than Irina in the LP and won
the gold overall.
Jas > commiting the sin of responding to a possible troll
MJsk8
>> 2.One that is clearly superior or has the attributes of a winner: a
>>champion at teaching.
>> 3.An ardent defender or supporter of a cause or another person: a
>>champion of the homeless.
>> 4.One who fights; a warrior.
>>
>>As per definition number 4., Michelle Kwan is an Olympic Champion.
No I think that if you want to put Olympic in front of champion than the
definition you must apply is #1.One that wins first place or first prize in a
competition, since the Olympics is the name of the competition. She is a
champion in the the case of #2 and #4, just not an Olympic champion.
MaryJo
Janice Schnell
>definition you must apply is #1.One that wins first place or first prize in a
>competition, since the Olympics is the name of the competition. She is a
>champion in the the case of #2 and #4, just not an Olympic champion.
>
>MaryJo
>
Michelle didn't skate at the Olympics?
Moral Midget
out with is worth their time.
PLONK
"Raul Moreno" <JFrid...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26234-3C8...@storefull-2318.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Well,she is NOT that nice.I live near the area where Michelle and her
> family live and have not heard a good thing about them.Just one look at
> the way her family was during her skate this year should be enough to
> tell you that.They were all stone faced,no expression of joy or
> sadness just nothing.That is the way they are in person.When her family
> was still running their
> resturant,I went a few times and was always treated very cold by her
> family,as was anyone that ate at that place.Not only that,the food was
> not that good.Since she was a "local girl" and I love ice skating,I went
> to support her.But I was turned off when I finally met her last
> year.Just very cold and could care less about her fans.
> On the other hand,I met Sarah Hughes at the
> Grammy Awards and she was just a doll.Very funny,cute and just happy to
> be noticed.
> I worked with Tara Lapinski during her summer stint on Young and the
> Restless and she was just a normal girl,very nice and loved talking.
> I know I may get some hate mail over my
> statements about Kwan,but as they say
> "the truth hurts".Sorry to to be so negative about MK,but this is what I
> have seen as mave many others who live in the South Bay of
> Los Angeles County.
--
"Kwan shocked the skating World during the summer when she dissolved her
relationship with choreographer Lori Nichol and later put fans into cardiac
arrest when she dumped long time coach Frank Carroll."--Lyndsey March,
iskater.com
--
Let the dog out to e-mail me.
Erin White
You are missing my point, which is not to be pedantic, but to illustrate that the
dictionary has room for more than one definition of the word "champion", hence
the different interpretations "mileage varying". The concept of "champion" goes
far beyond a one medal that is awarded on one night, once every four years.
Shallah
guests "thank you
> > to Train, Michelle Kwan *our olympic champion* , and Chris
Tucker".
> > I liked his choice of words.
>
> They're insulting to the real olympic champions; and maybe even to
Kwan,
> simply because she isn't one.
This depends upon which part of the definition of champion one wishs
to use
http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=champion
cham搆i搗n
1. One that wins first place or first prize in a competition.
2. One that is clearly superior or has the attributes of a winner: a
champion at teaching.
3. An ardent defender or supporter of a cause or another person: a
champion of the homeless.
4. One who fights; a warrior.
You might not personally choose to use the word champion that way but
it still fits Michelle.
Namaste,
Shallah
~~~
"The important thing in the Olympic Games is not winning, but taking
part.
The essential thing in life is not conquering but fighting well."
-- Baron Pierre de Coubertin
MJsk8
>
>Janice
Of course she did, twice. Unfortunately she just did not place 1st at either of
them.
The Patriots are 2002 Superbowl Champions, the Rams are not.
Diamondbacks are 2001 World Series Champions, Yankees are not.
All 4 teams are champions.
Michelle is a 2x Olympic medalist. Michelle is a champion. She is not, however,
an Olympic champion.
MaryJo
MJsk8
>You are missing my point, which is not to be pedantic, but to illustrate that
>the
>dictionary has room for more than one definition of the word "champion",
>hence
>the different interpretations "mileage varying". The concept of "champion"
>goes
>far beyond a one medal that is awarded on one night, once every four years.
I have absolutely no argument that Michelle is a champion, in more ways than
one.
MaryJo
Socrtescuz
>Jay Leno called Michelle:
>"OUR Olympic Champion". He's clearly saying he and others disagreed with
>judges' decision of awarding the Oly gold medal to Sarah Hughes. Perhaps he
>thought Michelle should have been scored higher than Irina in the LP and won
>the gold overall.
>
i don't think there was a dispute over sarah winning, she was the best on
*that* night. however, many people love michelle and were really rooting for
her to win, as was I. I think sarah deserved it that night, but i still regard
michelle as an olympic champion, but not in the sense of a gold medal winner.
she has clearly displayed that grace and beauty and talent that has made her a
champion over the years, at both olympic games, but unfortunately in Nagano the
judges thought tara had more umph and thus placing her first, and in salt lake,
michelle fell on the flip. I don't think one fall and a lack of a triple
triple resulting in a bronze medal makes michelle any less of a champion than
sarah. They are both olympic champions in my eyes, only sarah has that danged
*gold* that seems to be the only measure of a champion in some people's eyes.
Trudi Marrapodi
jani...@aol.commotion (Janice Schnell) wrote:
> >It makes an olympic champion. By definition. Are you for real?
> >
> > Jack
> >
>
> Yeah, I'm for real. I like my champions to accomplish more than one
> competition. I also don't consider fluke winners champions. Sarah was in
> fourth after the short for a reason. Her "difficult" 3 (f)lutz/2 loop put her
> there. She probably should have been lower. Ditto for Cohen, but Cohen
> probably has some areas that gave her better brownie points.
>
>
> Janice
You have a strange definition of being champion. I wonder what a person
has to do to be a champion in your book. Obviously more than the Olympics
requires of them.
--
Trudi
"If stupid remarks were an Olympic event, you'd be a gold-medal winner."--Mike Stivic to Archie Bunker
Trudi Marrapodi
looking up old articles in the local newspaper on microfilm, and I noted
in passing that in 1997 (just before I moved here), when they had the
Holiday Festival of Music downtown with one of the skating clubs, the
guest was publicized as "two-time U.S. Olympics bronze medalist Aren
Nielsen."
Hmm. That "s" really worked for him. Of course, what he meant was the U.S.
Olympic *Festival*, which isn't nearly as prestigious as the Olympics. But
by calling it the "U.S. Olympics," he could kinda hope nobody noticed that
"s," I guess, and that they would read it as "two-time U.S. Olympic bronze
medalist."
Now THAT's inflation. ;-)
SIPAAMS
>Nice try. It was a very classic chum program. You know, I've been expecting
one of these. (You might not be aware that reality is different from the above,
and people here know that.)<
Even MK has bad days and he only met her once, why do you immediately assume
he is chumming?
Alison
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Love one another as I have loved you. - J.C.
SIPAAMS
calling Michelle "AN Olympic Champion" but "THE Olympic Champion" would be
going too far. As far as what Jay said, I would have preferred "one of our
Olympic Champions" rather than "our Olympic Champion" because it really isn't
that nice to leave Sarah out of it altogether. But maybe since Sarah wouldn't
go on his show, it was his way of showing his preference.
Locutus of Borg
>
>>Nice try. It was a very classic chum program. You know, I've been expecting
>one of these. (You might not be aware that reality is different from the
>above,
>and people here know that.)<
>
>Even MK has bad days and he only met her once, why do you immediately assume
>he is chumming?
>
>
>Alison
Well, gosh, Alison, did you read the post? You look at it line by line and tell
me if you think that's not a troll. Please do. I'm eager looking forward to
your showing me how that post was not chum, considering its complete content.
sonny
feel sad for people like you, not angry just sad.
"Gr8tful4aug1" <gr8tfu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020302214656...@mb-mb.aol.com...
SoonerDog
>
>Do you sleep wearing your dunce cap?
Ah, that's what I was waiting for. Instead of a reasoned reply, straight to
the personal attacks.
Nice.
SoonerDog
>I think the word "champion" has a broader meaning than just coming in #1
>in an event.
Second that.
SIPAAMS
>Well, gosh, Alison, did you read the post? You look at it line by line and
tell me if you think that's not a troll. Please do. I'm eager looking forward
to your showing me how that post was not chum, considering its complete
content.<
It was the person's first post here, so there is no history of bashing. It is
suspicious that the person claimed to have met Tara, Sarah and Michelle, but it
is possible. The reason that I am thinking it is not a troll is because the
circumstances that he said led him to believe that Michelle is not very nice
were things that were easily explainable - for example, what he said about the
restaurant not being very friendly. Well, how many Chinese restaurants have
you ever been to where the proprietors are very chummy? Most of the ones I
have been to the proprietors have been fairly reserved, so while I would be
able to see why the poster might say that, to me it is totally discountable
because that is my experience in Chinese restaurants period, not just
Michelle's family. Ditto with what he said about Michelle - he said he met her
once and she did not seem very effusive. I am not huge fan of Michelle's, but
even *I* know that Michelle is good to her fans, so that is also discountable
as either he had too high of expectations or met her on a bad day. To me, a
real troll would say things that are more outrageous or not so simply explained
away. JMO.
BaleofAKS
"your Olympic champions."
Yes, that includes silver and bronze.
LB
Bale...@AOL.com
Kid Rouge
socrt...@aol.com (Socrtescuz) wrote in message news:<20020303034457...@mb-fq.aol.com>...
Gr8tful4aug1
Nope. It was worthy only of what it received - a silver. Michele simply isn't
a gold medal caliber skater. Deal with it!
Rory
Janice Schnell
>YOUR champions. Oh, ok.
Certainly. It's MY opinion. For me, the great champions prove themselves over
time.
>
>And just how does one "accomplish" a competition?
See above.
Nevermind. Reasoning
>with you is impossible!
Jack
You aren't reasoning with me. You think the Olympic gold medal is the be all
and end all definition of a champion. I don't. You have not given me any
logical reason why my opinion isn't valid.
Janice Schnell
>discussing here. Remember? You might think about educating yourself
>instead of reinventing definitions to suit your whims.
Better explain that to the IOC - they seem to a little fuddled on that. It
seems they proclaim the gold, silver, and bronze medalists as Olympic
champions.
Janice Schnell
>
> Jack
>
Yes, the one that sees past Olympic gold.
Dave Amorde
news:20020302212533...@mb-dd.aol.com...
>
> I like Sarah. I like Sarah's skating. I just don't think she is there
yet. I
> don't think her level of skating is representative of what I consider an
> Olympic Champion.
Which, in my mind, makes her accomplishment all the more remarkable.
-Dave-
Roberta L. Millstein
sip...@aol.com (SIPAAMS) wrote:
> I kind of see all of your points. Personally, I do not have a problem with
> calling Michelle "AN Olympic Champion" but "THE Olympic Champion" would be
> going too far. As far as what Jay said, I would have preferred "one of our
> Olympic Champions" rather than "our Olympic Champion" because it really isn't
> that nice to leave Sarah out of it altogether. But maybe since Sarah wouldn't
> go on his show, it was his way of showing his preference.
Everyone in this thread seems to have missed the context of Leno's
remarks. Earlier in the broadcast, he said very clearly that Michelle
was a champion to him because after she fell, she kept skating, and
because she didn't act childishly as so many athletes do. He wasn't
saying this to denigrate Sarah, or to say that a bronze is a gold, or to
say that she deserved the gold, or that she was a champion because of
her years of successful skating. He said that being a champion was
about character. Now, you may disagree with that, but at least address
what he said!
Most of all, he seemed to be trying to cheer her up and to pay tribute
to her accomplishments.
Roberta (delurking)
--
Roberta L. Millstein
rlmil...@spamaway.rlm.net
Remove "spamaway" to reply
Erin White
Has it occurred to anyone that the Tonight Show is taped in LA, and that Michelle
skates for the Los Angeles Figure Skating Club, hence emphasis "our"? I really
don't think what Leno said was such a big deal or goes beyond that.
DG511
writes:
>> Usually, the great Olympic champions were already accomplished in
>>their sport
>
>And sometimes a longshot wins. Isn't that exciting. I thought so. It provides
>inspiration and hope to everyone that competes.
>
ITA. As I said elsewhere, Sarah is in the yo-yo phase of contending. Michelle
and Irina are the top two, and Sarah is "getting there." Part of "getting
there" is the occasional win, which will happen when the top two have less than
stellar performances on a night when the yo-yoing contender has a great
performance. That's what happened at the Olympics, and it was indeed exciting.
IMO, that still doesn't put Sarah up there with Michelle and Irina. She's
still a work in progress. But I believe she will match Irina, at least, in a
short time.
I wanted Michelle to win, but I'm not that troubled by Sarah's gold because I
enjoy watching young skaters progress. On a night when no one had a perfect
performance, she skated with joy, she skated well, and she won.
Daria
"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they fly by."
Douglas Adams
Locutus of Borg
>circumstances that he said led him to believe that Michelle is not very nice
>were things that were easily explainable
My mileage varies. A lot.
Thanks for the explanation. Much.
Gr8tful4aug1
>Yes, the one that sees past Olympic gold.
Ironically, Michele (the skater with whom you're obsessed) can't seem to see
beyond Olympic gold at all ... probably because she realizes that she's not
capable of ever achieving it.
Rory
Locutus of Borg
Way too logical for the room, Tink.
Althealeo
Michelle:
"OUR Olympic Champion". He's clearly saying he and others disagreed with
judges' decision of awarding the Oly gold medal to Sarah Hughes. Perhaps he
thought Michelle should have been scored higher than Irina in the LP and won
the gold overall. >>
<sarcasm on>
Yep. Because Jay Leno is probably *such* an educated skating fan -- as
evidenced by his comments in the past -- that he reallyhas a well-formed
opinion about who should have won.
And that's why they invited Hughes on a show -- so that he could ask her
directly why she accepted her medal, when Kwan really should have won. Thank
goodness Hughes declined -- because, after all, she probably doesn't want to be
asked that question.
-- Kate, rolling eyes
SoonerDog
>That was the last line. You conveniently omitted, or never even read, the
>reasoned part. Which isn't surprising!
The last line, in which you implied that I was an idiot of some sort for
disagreeing with you, cancels out the supposedly "reasoned" part.
See, no matter how learned you think you sound, if you close your argument with
"you big doo doo head", you're going to sound like a petulant kindergartner.
That's how little children think they've won arguments. Most adults don't
behave that way, except for some reason on the internet.
Seriously... if you were having a discussion with someone in real life, would
you make a comment like that to them? Bet not.
SD
Althealeo
Michelle
skates for the Los Angeles Figure Skating Club, hence emphasis "our"? I really
don't think what Leno said was such a big deal or goes beyond that.<<
That was certainly my interpretation.
-- Kate
Althealeo
I consider Hughes to be an Olympic champion. After all, she meets definition
#1, generally (IMO) the most common definition.
On the other hand, I don't think being an Olympic champion is necessarily any
more impressive than being World Champion in multiple years.
-- Kate
SoonerDog
>It
>seems they proclaim the gold, silver, and bronze medalists as Olympic
>champions.
Exactly. Whoever compared this to the Super Bowl, for instance: well, that's a
bad analogy. There is indeed only one Super Bowl champion. However, in the
Olympics, the top three are all winners and receive medals. I still fail to
see how winning an Olympic medal makes you anything other than an Olympic
champion.
Those who disagree, go ahead. Call me a name. That'll prove your position.
Not.
SD
SoonerDog
>Way too logical for the room, Tink.
Really. How can we fight and insult each other if we're forced to be logical?
I agree that Sarah had the skate of her life. I hope she has more incredible
skates ahead of her. But that doesn't mean I can't also admire Michelle, or
Sasha, or... well, sorry. I don't get Irina.
SD
Althealeo
are any less Olympic champions. >>
I disagree with that, at least for 2002. Hughes did, in the eyes of the
judges, win the Olympics. She won gold, and the two ladies didn't. And I'm
not at all convinced that the ordinals were mixed between Hughes and Slutskaya
for good reason....I have yet to hear a convincing reason why Slutskaya's
skating is *so* much better than Hughes's program wouldn't have beaten it. If
Slutskaya had landed just *one* triple-triple, maybe, or not nearly fell on
the flip, but....
Now, over time, you can argue that a silver and a bronze are better than one
gold....but that doesn't work as well for Slutskaya.
OTOH, I personally don't see what the big deal is about not being the Olympic
champion in a particular year. Yes, it's wonderful and 'special' to win, but,
hey, just *getting* to the Olympics makes one a champion -- just not an Olympic
champion. :)
-- Kate
Althealeo
to do to be a champion in your book. Obviously more than the Olympics requires
of them.>>
Well...I agree with Janice that when I think of 'true champions' *over time*,
Sarah Hughes is not quite there yet, whearas Kwan and perhaps Slutskaya really
are.
OTOH, Hughes is the Olympic champion. But those are two different concepts of
'champion'. One is short-term, focused on one competition; the other is a more
long-term concept, and (IMO) more meaningful.
-- Kate
Althealeo
It wouldn't surprise me if Kwan has learned to subtly discourage thousands of
fans descending on her when she is trying to spend time with her family, or
shop, or eat....I think a lot of celebs do that. They don't always look up,
make eye contact, encourage people to approach. It isn't rude; it's survival
and possibly the key to personal peace.
-- Kate
Janice Schnell
>skating is *so* much better than Hughes's program wouldn't have beaten it.
>If
>Slutskaya had landed just *one* triple-triple, maybe, or not nearly fell on
>the flip, but....
>
How about Sarah didn't have a triple lutz in her program? How about the under
rotation on at least one of the 3/3 combo's. I haven't gone back to check the
rest. I know Scott mentioned how fast Sarah was skating (I take some of his
commentary with a grain of salt, considering how he kept saying Yagudin was
conceding the LP to Goebel), but I have a feeling it was a comparison to how
fast she normally skates. Also, Slutskaya may have been slower than normal,
but she didn't look like she was crawling on the ice. Irina did do a 3/2/2 and
a triple lutz/double loop. I read in Irina's interview that she thinks one of
Sarah's jumps was extremely cheated - which is typical of Sarah's triples. I
also believe that Irina's footwork sequence is more difficult than Sarah's.
Is that enough?
Gr8tful4aug1
>Is that enough?
Sarah has the Olympic gold medal. Michele will never achieve that because she
is an inferior skater. Why can't you accept that?
Rory
Rock
in Torrance and Michelle lives in Manhattan Beach. Her family hasn't ran
the restaurant in a long time.
So prove to us that you know the restaurant, by telling us the street its
on and better yet the name of it. I will either confirm it or deny it to
the group.
Friend of the Kwan's
"Raul Moreno" <JFrid...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:26234-3C8...@storefull-2318.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Well,she is NOT that nice.I live near the area where Michelle and her
> family live and have not heard a good thing about them.Just one look at
> the way her family was during her skate this year should be enough to
> tell you that.They were all stone faced,no expression of joy or
> sadness just nothing.That is the way they are in person.When her family
> was still running their
> resturant,I went a few times and was always treated very cold by her
> family,as was anyone that ate at that place.Not only that,the food was
> not that good.Since she was a "local girl" and I love ice skating,I went
> to support her.But I was turned off when I finally met her last
> year.Just very cold and could care less about her fans.
> On the other hand,I met Sarah Hughes at the
> Grammy Awards and she was just a doll.Very funny,cute and just happy to
> be noticed.
> I worked with Tara Lapinski during her summer stint on Young and the
> Restless and she was just a normal girl,very nice and loved talking.
> I know I may get some hate mail over my
> statements about Kwan,but as they say
> "the truth hurts".Sorry to to be so negative about MK,but this is what I
> have seen as mave many others who live in the South Bay of
> Los Angeles County.
>
> Stay Safe,
>
> Raul
>
> San Pedro,Ca
>
> "There are over three thousand cops in this city and I'm damned proud I
> am one of them"
> Jack Webb as Joe Friday on Dragnet
>
> "I would give half my salary to play in this dump every day" Babe Ruth
> on Wrigley Field,Chicago
>
Trudi Marrapodi
alth...@cs.com (Althealeo) wrote:
> >You have a strange definition of being champion. I wonder what a person has
> to do to be a champion in your book. Obviously more than the Olympics requires
> of them.>>
>
> Well...I agree with Janice that when I think of 'true champions' *over time*,
> Sarah Hughes is not quite there yet, whearas Kwan and perhaps Slutskaya really
> are.
That's fine. But I get annoyed with people who don't seem to regard
someone who has won something as a "champion' just because THEY don't
personally like the person.
> OTOH, Hughes is the Olympic champion. But those are two different concepts of
> 'champion'. One is short-term, focused on one competition; the other is
a more
> long-term concept, and (IMO) more meaningful.
>
> -- Kate
Understandable. I'm just hoping someone like Sarah Hughes doesn't have to
jump through 50 hoops to "prove" herself. Like it or not, being able to
manage to win the Olympics counts for *something.*
--
Trudi
"If stupid remarks were an Olympic event, you'd be a gold-medal winner."--Mike Stivic to Archie Bunker
Janice Schnell
>someone who has won something as a "champion' just because THEY don't
>personally like the person.
I don't believe I said that I didn't think Sarah Hughes was the Olympic
champion. I said I don't believe her level of skating is Champion material.
I also never said I didn't like Sarah. I do like Sarah. I looked forward to
her development as a skater. Looks like we won't get it now, though.
DG511
Did the conversations take this tone after 1998? Because I arrived here
shortly after the '98 Olympics, and I don't remember the "she's not a real
champion" stuff being aimed at Tara. It was more "she shouldn't have won in
the first place" with an optional "I can't stand her", IIRC. I find it
interesting that people are trying to downgrade Sarah's gold by saying that the
Olympics are essentially meaningless, or that they mean nothing compared to
Worlds. I don't think we'd be reading that if Michelle or Irina had won.
BJOlson851
saying that the Olympics are essentially meaningless, or that they mean nothing
compared to
Worlds. I don't think we'd be reading that if Michelle or Irina had won.>>
No, you would have been reading a lot of "Sarah was robbed" threads. I don't
think anyone is trying to downplay Sarah's gold medal anymore than they tried
to downplay Tara's gold. I found out this Olympics that outside of the skating
world, most people I knew had a passing interest in the Olympics, and some have
already forgotten most of the U.S. gold medal winners' names. I honestly
believe that the gold medal is no longer the be all to end all that the media
plays it up to be.
Michelle was a class act on the Tonight Show, and she was even a classier act
on Dateline last night. I think it says a lot about Michelle and her character
that they saved the last interview for the Olympic BRONZE medalist. I also
found it interesting that like Jay Leno, Jane Pauley also brought up the
strength of Michelle's character. That alone is one of the strengths that has
gotten Michelle were she is today.
Trudi
>
> >That's fine. But I get annoyed with people who don't seem to regard
> >someone who has won something as a "champion' just because THEY don't
> >personally like the person.
>
> I don't believe I said that I didn't think Sarah Hughes was the Olympic
> champion. I said I don't believe her level of skating is Champion material.
Isn't what you think sort of beside the point, when she won the championship?
> I also never said I didn't like Sarah. I do like Sarah. I looked forward to
> her development as a skater. Looks like we won't get it now, though.
>
> Janice
What makes you assume that, for heavens' sakes? If she's going to stay
in and keep competing, she really can't afford to rest on her laurels.
Everyone else will be trying to knock her off the throne, and they will
be hungrier.
Why *shouldn't* she try to continue to improve and develop her skating?
She will have to if she wants to stay ahead of the pack. I just don't
really see her saying, "OK, job's done--I can continue to keep
competing, and I will win every time, just because I'm the Olympic
champion. No need to change."
Trudi