Is Ilia Kulik Gay?
stev...@mailcity.com
Hey everybody!
Don't get offended or anything - I am just curious. Being gay is nothing
to be ashamed of. I was just wondering if Ilia Kulik is gay. I have
heard that a lot of skaters are.
Steve-sven
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Sk8Maven
Dear Steve,
If you had read the FAQ first -- something that every newcomer really
*should* do, and reminders about which are posted periodically, but
obviously not often enough -- you would have seen a clear statement that
this sort of question is strongly discouraged in this newsgroup.
It's nobody's business but the skaters'.
Maven
ingrid johnson
steve-sven asks us if Ilia is gay and not to take offense at the
question. no offense taken. if he's not yet gay he had better become
so soon. He just won russian nationals, csf, and has been named to the
russsian olympic team. oh, he also has three-quarters of the women (and
some men too I bet--how about you steve-sven?) on this ng salivating
over him -- i think it's those red cheeks!
gay? i think he is. we should all be as gay as ilia probably is.
-- ingrid
Louis Epstein
stev...@mailcity.com wrote:
: Hey everybody!
:
: Don't get offended or anything - I am just curious. Being gay is nothing
: to be ashamed of. I was just wondering if Ilia Kulik is gay. I have
: heard that a lot of skaters are.
:
: Steve-sven
Whatever our varying opinions,we have no information to go on and few
consider it worth finding out.Why do you care?
gen...@earthlink.net
Seroiusly, kid, the only person's sex life you should have ANY
interest in is your own.
Louis Epstein
ingrid johnson (ingrid1...@webtv.net) wrote:
: steve-sven asks us if Ilia is gay and not to take offense at the
: question. no offense taken. if he's not yet gay he had better become
: so soon. He just won russian nationals, csf, and has been named to the
: russsian olympic team. oh, he also has three-quarters of the women (and
: some men too I bet--how about you steve-sven?) on this ng salivating
: over him -- i think it's those red cheeks!
Is that a blood vessel problem?
: gay? i think he is. we should all be as gay as ilia probably is.
:
: -- ingrid
Cycys22
>
Whatever our varying opinions,we have no information to go on and
>few
consider it worth finding out.Why do you care?
He probably wants to know if he has a chance with Ilia or not.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
May Todd, Yagudin, Michelle, Surya, K&O and K&D not win gold in Nagano!
(Hope the skate gods are listening) :-)
Tracy McCaffrey
This is the second "is he gay?" post by this poster. Perhaps a new
troll is among us?
Takeuchi, Kaz & Diep
gen...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 02:28:01 GMT, l...@put.com (Louis Epstein) wrote:
>
> >stev...@mailcity.com wrote:
> >: Hey everybody!
> >:
> >: Don't get offended or anything - I am just curious. Being gay is nothing
> >: to be ashamed of. I was just wondering if Ilia Kulik is gay. I have
> >: heard that a lot of skaters are.
> >:
> >: Steve-sven
> >
> >consider it worth finding out.Why do you care?
>
> interest in is your own.
do with ones gayness. it a matter of life style nothing more. people
always have to bring sex into everthing... grow up
MThorensen
In article <34a5f284...@news.earthlink.net>,
gen...@earthlink.net writes:
>Seroiusly, kid, the only person's sex life you should have ANY
>interest in is your own.
It may be the safest way, but doing it alone is not always that great.
Marckus
mthor...@aol.com
Phefner
>>: Don't get offended or anything - I am just curious. Being gay is nothing
>> >: to be ashamed of. I was just wondering if Ilia Kulik is gay. I have
>> >: heard that a lot of skaters are.
>> >:
>> >: Steve-sven
>> >
Who cares? I'm interested in his skating; what he does at home is none of our
damn business.
Patricia
Chris
On Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:19:00 -0500, Sk8Maven <sk8m...@monumental.com>
wrote:
I would like to know where the FAQ is so that I may read it.
I'm not clear as to what questions are appropriate and which are not
AND who decides what is and what is not appropriate.
Thank you,
Chris
Sandra Loosemore
ch...@epix.net (Chris) writes:
> I would like to know where the FAQ is so that I may read it.
Try http://frog.simplenet.com/skateweb/faq.
-Sandra
Liz Broadwell
Chris (ch...@epix.net) wrote:
: I would like to know where the FAQ is so that I may read it.
It's posted here semi-regularly; you could do a DejaNews search for it.
Or you could surf over to SkateWeb, where it lives along with a number of
other useful and beautiful resources. The URL for the FAQ there is
http://frog.simplenet.com/skateweb/reference.shtml#faq.
: I'm not clear as to what questions are appropriate and which are not
: AND who decides what is and what is not appropriate.
Despite the tendency for conspiracy theories to sprout around this issue
("It's the TRUDIBORG, help!" "No, no -- the JOELLEBORG!"), as far as I
can tell this newsgroup (like most others) arrives at definitions of
appropriateness by consensus, usually following a particularly
nasty/long-drawn-out/idiotic flamewar. Most newsgroups discussing
well-known people seem to declare speculations about sexual preference
off-limits eventually, given the fact that such discussions have a
distressingly low light/heat ratio and tend to mushroom out of proportion
to other topics. But that's the kind of thing you get to know only after
you've been reading Usenet (or, in the case of topics of more limited
focus, a particular newsgroup). Even if you're cautious and read a
particular group for a while before you post (as I prefer to do, myself),
you still may miss the cues that warn you away from a particular topic.
Not all groups have FAQs or post them regularly, but r.s.s.i.f. is pretty
good in that regard; in addition, long-time posters are usually polite
enough to clue newbies in about potential hazards before things
degenerate. And there are certainly enough appropriate topics to keep
this group humming along at a great pace! :-)
Peace,
Liz
--
Elizabeth Broadwell | At Christmas I no more desire a rose
(ebro...@english.upenn.edu) | Than wish a snow in May's new-fangled mirth;
English Department | But like of each thing that in season grows.
University of Pennsylvania | -- William Shakespeare
Jennifer Lyon
stev...@mailcity.com wrote:
>Hey everybody!
>Don't get offended or anything - I am just curious. Being gay is
nothing
>to be ashamed of. I was just wondering if Ilia Kulik is gay. I have
>heard that a lot of skaters are.
>Steve-sven
Unless a skater comes out of the closet, I don't know who is gay and who
isn't-- and neither does anyone else on this newsgroup. (Unless they're a
friend of the skater in question, and even then they might not know.)
But if you are interested in the gays-in-skating issue, you are welcome
to read my online serial, "The Strong & the Sequined." Chapters 30 and 31,
which I just posted, have some things to say about the subject-- all
within the realm of fiction, because no one gets hurt that way.
Naomi Lloyd
Chris,
I think, from the many posts I have on "Is so-and-so gay/lesbian?" over
the years, that the members of the newsgroup try to tread the difficult
line between:
1) not discussing a skater's sexual preference if they have not made it
clear (in which case the answer to a post such as this would be: he has
not made it clear) and
2) making it clear that they are not discriminating against gays and
lesbians in not pursuing these threads. Although this last point is by no
means unanymous (when is it ever?), there are a large number of regular
posters who have made the point that we are not not discussing it because
we think homosexuality is evil, a sickness or any of the other ways in
which it has traditionally been conceived. Also, this type of question
makes for a great red herring for the use of "trolls" simply to stir
people up and then leave.
Sadly, for any gay or lesbian youth out there looking for a role model
there is only one elite skater at the moment that I know of: Rudy Galindo.
But he makes up for it a lot!
Naomi
On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Chris wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Dec 1997 21:19:00 -0500, Sk8Maven <sk8m...@monumental.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Dear Steve,
> >If you had read the FAQ first -- something that every newcomer really
> >*should* do, and reminders about which are posted periodically, but
> >obviously not often enough -- you would have seen a clear statement that
> >this sort of question is strongly discouraged in this newsgroup.
> >
> >It's nobody's business but the skaters'.
> >
> >Maven
>
>
> I would like to know where the FAQ is so that I may read it.
>
> I'm not clear as to what questions are appropriate and which are not
> AND who decides what is and what is not appropriate.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
stev...@mailcity.com
In article <684b7n$156$1...@newsd-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
ingrid1...@webtv.net (ingrid johnson) wrote:
>
> steve-sven asks us if Ilia is gay and not to take offense at the
> question. no offense taken. if he's not yet gay he had better become
> so soon. He just won russian nationals, csf, and has been named to the
> russsian olympic team. oh, he also has three-quarters of the women (and
> some men too I bet--how about you steve-sven?) on this ng salivating
> over him -- i think it's those red cheeks!
>
>
> -- ingrid
How about me? Well yes, as a matter of fact, I do find Ilia quite
attractive - hence my questions concerning his possible homosexuality. I
guess you can call it a bit of a crush, but unlike the crushes of a
hetero-sexual, mine are usually doomed to failure because the object of
admiration is VERY likely never to regard me similarly. Even if Ilia
were to live next door to me and eat lunch at my house every afternoon -
if he is not gay, I haven't a chance in the world. Sexuality aside, Ilia
is very talented and seems highly motivated. There are indeed more
things worth admiring about him besides his red cheeks. :)
Steve-Sven
stev...@mailcity.com
In article <ELvo6...@news2.new-york.net>,
l...@put.com (Louis Epstein) wrote:
>
> stev...@mailcity.com wrote:
> : Hey everybody!
> :
> : Don't get offended or anything - I am just curious. Being gay is nothing
> : to be ashamed of. I was just wondering if Ilia Kulik is gay. I have
> : heard that a lot of skaters are.
> :
> : Steve-sven
>
> consider it worth finding out.Why do you care?
Well, Ilia Kulik happens to be my favorite figure skater AND I am gay
myself.
stev...@mailcity.com
In article <34A627...@cybertours.com>,
tra...@cybertours.com wrote:
>
> This is the second "is he gay?" post by this poster. Perhaps a new
> troll is among us?
Please do tell me then - where do I go to ask my questions, if not here?
In case you haven't noticed, there is no ng about Ilia Kulik alone.
dario
Just my two sense on this debate. Why is it one can discuss someones hetro
sexuality but not homosexuality. ( only if they come out first). How many
skaters come out and publics say they are hetrosexual anyway. Someone
posted that Victor K had dated Nicole B. That was a discussion sexuality
although not directly. If were gonna censor. Then it should be done
equally no discussion of anyones love life. Lets stick to chairasexuals.
dario
Norman Reef
Could we start taking the skater's name out of replies to such posts? Many
people have offered insightful and caring comments in response to the
original faux pas, but unfortunately the skater continued to be unjustly
connected.
--Norman
Hog Doodle
So what if he's happy,...waht doess that have to do with skating? I'd rather
see a happy skatters thatn a bitchy non sakatere.
Chuckg
stev...@mailcity.com wrote in article
<883530115....@dejanews.com>...
> Please do tell me then - where do I go to ask my questions, if not here?
> In case you haven't noticed, there is no ng about Ilia Kulik alone.
Well, nobody here can order you to do anything... but we can tell you what
is generally accepted as good etiquette around here. And as a general
rule, when it comes to "is such-and-such a skater gay?"...
... you just *don't ask*.
The general consensus of this .ng, as I understand it, is that whatever
gender any given skater prefers to sleep with is their own darn business --
and therefore, unless the *skater* publicly "comes out", it wouldn't be
polite to discuss it here.
Even a public figure is allowed SOME privacy.
So this is why (hypothetically speaking) a discussion of Rudy Galindo's
homosexuality would be acceptable here -- because Rudy admits that he's
gay.
But Ilia Kulik hasn't said word one in public as to *his* sexual
preference... so until he does, can we just all sit on our respective
curiosities and live with it?
Thank you. This .ng gets more than enough traffic without having to scroll
through all the endless "is so-and-so gay?" threads.
-- Chuckg
Lorrie Kim
I don't think it's necessary to know a celebrity's sexuality in
order to lust after them. After all, suppose their orientation matches
your own -- does that actually increase your chances of sleeping with them?
If you think the answer is yes, here's the number for Stalkers Anonymous.
Anyway, here's a tip for newbies: if you ask, "Is this skater
gay?" a lot of people will scold you. If you ask, "Is this skater's sexual
orientation a matter of public record?" people may realize they have no
excuse to jump down your throat.
In Kulik's case, I don't think he's ever made any public statement
about it.
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
Miriam R. Moore
In <883530115....@dejanews.com> stev...@mailcity.com writes:
>
>In article <34A627...@cybertours.com>,
> tra...@cybertours.com wrote:
>>
>> This is the second "is he gay?" post by this poster. Perhaps a new
>> troll is among us?
>
here?
>In case you haven't noticed, there is no ng about Ilia Kulik alone.
>
No, but I do believe there are a lot of gay groups on the net, as well
as magazines which discuss who is gay, etc. We have, as of late, been
trying to shunt some of off-topic gossip over to alt.showbiz.gossip,
perhaps we can find an NG to shunt these questions off to.
Miriam
Louis Epstein
Hog Doodle (hogd...@aol.com) wrote:
: So what if he's happy,...waht doess that have to do with skating? I'd rather
: see a happy skatters thatn a bitchy non sakatere.
Hogdoodleboy,are you trying to say "non-skater" or "non-sequitur" there?
I certainly wish gaiety to all skaters no matter how heterosexual.
Virginia Blalock
On 31 Dec 1997 05:03:08 GMT, mrm...@ix.netcom.com(Miriam R. Moore)
wrote:
>No, but I do believe there are a lot of gay groups on the net, as well
>as magazines which discuss who is gay, etc. We have, as of late, been
>trying to shunt some of off-topic gossip over to alt.showbiz.gossip,
>perhaps we can find an NG to shunt these questions off to.
alt.skate.figure.is.he.gay
There ya go! ;)
Virginia
Visit my Skating Page
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/9508/skating.html
Cid
After all the "unchided" posts about dance figure skater Pasha
Gritchuk . IMO asking if a skater is gay seems almost a harmless
question in comparison. Who makes the rules for the group? I got
chided for posting that I did not like the way gold medal champ Pasha
was being spoken about
in vulgar language dispite my dislike for her unprofessioal behavior.
I did NOT try to stop anyone from posting and was only expressing "my"
opinion. Is there a rule that if we do not like a skater or the skater
behaves distastefully anything goes?
Revjoelle
>In Kulik's case, I don't think he's ever made any public statement
>about it.
I have a question for people who read other sports newsgroups. Do these
questions come up about football players? Gymnasts? Tennis Players?
Just seems weird to me that a public person would need to make a public
statement about their sexuality one way or the other. I guess it's news if you
are gay....and it seems like in most sports people assume you are straight
unless told otherwise...but in skating...seems like the men need to make a
statement one way or the other.
Does this come up for women who are in sports which are perceived as more
"masculine"?
Joelle
"I believe we all have Snowden in our lives, and have been touched by someone
magical who has helped guide us past an obstacle or face a specific challenge"
Scott Hamilton
Tracy Reed
Excellent idea. I applaud you. Good thinking - and very considerate.
Tracy
Naomi Lloyd
Whether so-and-so is a lesbian, comes up all the time on the tennis
newsgroup. On that newsgroup, although there is homophobia, there is
widespread acceptance that this is the way things are - a number of top
tennis players are lesbians.
As far as I am concerned, the reason these discussions need to take place
(so long as they're not the work of trolls) is that homosexuality has been
seen as something deviant that has to be hidden and not spoken about. Even
in the cry of "what people do in bed is there own business," I sometimes
wonder if it is not just another way of trying to hide or deny the social
phenomenon. I mean, there is a lot more to being gay or lesbian than what
happens in bed. The fact that there is a focus on sex for gays and
lesbians is part of the discrimination - homosexuality is sexualized, is
perceived to be all about sex, whereas this is certainly not the case with
heterosexuality. When I hear that a pairs couple is dating or married, I
don't think of bed stuff. Why do people think like this for gays and
lesbians?
Naomi
Naomi Lloyd
The shunting of any community off to another place has always had ominous
overtones for me. Whereas discussing non-skating gay issues would clearly
be out of place on this newsgroup, gay issues pertaining to skating have a
right to be here as much as heterosexual issues pertaining to skating.
While I do not anticipate these issues being a large part of the
newsgroup, they are likely to come up now and again. Skaters get married,
they date one another or others outside of the skating world, they come
out of the closet etc.
Now if you wanted to shunt all discussion of anything that is off-ice,
that would seem to be fairer, and not discriminating against one
community,
Naomi
On 31 Dec 1997, Miriam R. Moore wrote:
> In <883530115....@dejanews.com> stev...@mailcity.com writes:
> >
> >In article <34A627...@cybertours.com>,
> > tra...@cybertours.com wrote:
> >>
> >> This is the second "is he gay?" post by this poster. Perhaps a new
> >> troll is among us?
> >
> >Please do tell me then - where do I go to ask my questions, if not
> here?
> >In case you haven't noticed, there is no ng about Ilia Kulik alone.
> >
> >Steve-Sven
>
> No, but I do believe there are a lot of gay groups on the net, as well
> as magazines which discuss who is gay, etc. We have, as of late, been
> trying to shunt some of off-topic gossip over to alt.showbiz.gossip,
> perhaps we can find an NG to shunt these questions off to.
>
> Miriam
>
>
Lorrie Kim
In article <19971231125...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
Revjoelle <revj...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Just seems weird to me that a public person would need to make a public
>statement about their sexuality one way or the other.
It may seem weird, but it's naive about public life to think that
it _shouldn't_ be an issue, so therefore it _won't_ be. The straight or
bisexual skaters who get married (Sand, Petrenko, Weiss) readily release
public statements about it. That leaves the rest of them in a place that
swirls with insinuations and sniggers and outright persecution. Perhaps
some of them are so well-supported in their private lives that it doesn't
affect them. But anyone who works with homophobia, including homophobia
against straight men suspected of being gay, knows the toll it takes and
how you feel you're behind the 8-ball and MUST do SOMETHING about it.
I came out over a decade ago because it was just easier than lying
all the time to everyone. (And don't think they didn't ask about my
sexual orientation. "Do you have a boyfriend? When are you getting
married?") I had better uses for my energy.
>Does this come up for women who are in sports which are perceived as more
>"masculine"?
Golf.
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
Naomi Lloyd
What concerns me about simply renaming the thread is that it begs the
question of why it is so terrible to be mistaken as gay. It simply goes
along with social prejudice that there is something wrong with being gay.
Cid
NOTICE: I am not refering to the poster who kindly posted the FAQ
rules or everyone who objects to the gay question.
FAQ, cliques and double standards which and who really rules this
group?
I doubt the FQA encourages the vulgar language used by some to
adress the "personal" life of skater Pasha Gritchuk. I notice that the
FAQ rules where posted after someone asked if a skater is gay.
I cannot control other posters, but IMO to get respect you need to
give it. If some in this group approve and use vulgar language against
an unpopular skater. IMO they lack the moral to judge other posters and
turn to the FQA rules when they chose.
Who rules this group? Some not ALL posters seem to feel they can
chide other posters personally about what they can and cannot say. I was
chided for posting my distaste over the Pasha bashing. I did not adress
anyone personally , and I was not trying to stop anyone from expressing
their opinion,but an entire clique I recognized but in.
Some posters feel the "power" to control because they are backed up
by the same group of people that stand up for each other. If you are
walking down the street and two people are having a silly argument , do
you but in and take sides? Do you really care to get involved? I doubt
it. In this group I often see arguments fit for e-mail going on and
others but in to take sides. Usually it is the "same" people. I would
say nothing except that I almost left the group because of this "bully"
double standard. I was called a nut case by one in the "clique" in the
name of fair play.
The above is only my .02 cents. I hope everyone notices I have NOT
insulted the WHOLE newsgroup which is often used as an excuse to slam
someone for posting "their" opinion.
Thank You!
Sandra Loosemore
Naomi Lloyd <ll...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> writes:
> The shunting of any community off to another place has always had ominous
> overtones for me. Whereas discussing non-skating gay issues would clearly
> be out of place on this newsgroup, gay issues pertaining to skating have a
> right to be here as much as heterosexual issues pertaining to skating.
> While I do not anticipate these issues being a large part of the
> newsgroup, they are likely to come up now and again.
Believe it or not, this is not a gay vs. straight issue. The problem
is that few gay skaters have chosen to tell the public about their
personal lives, and any discussion here about things they haven't
announced is therefore either pure speculation or a violation of their
confidence and privacy. I know there are also skaters who have been
involved in heterosexual romances they haven't wanted to make public,
and it is just as inappropriate to speculate or gossip about those
relationships here.
-Sandra
Virginia Blalock
On 31 Dec 1997 12:52:11 GMT, revj...@aol.com (Revjoelle) wrote:
>>In Kulik's case, I don't think he's ever made any public statement
>>about it.
>
>I have a question for people who read other sports newsgroups. Do these
>questions come up about football players? Gymnasts? Tennis Players?
Of course not. I read baseball groups and no one mentions sexual
orientation of players. The assumption is that they are straight I am
sure. Why? That are in a "guy's" sport. Western society thinks skating
is a "girl's" sport, so there is speculation about the sexual
orientation of males in a "girl's" sport. This whole assumption is
based on incorrect assumptions anyway. It is thought that gay males
really want to be female and that is why they are attracted to the
same sex. We heterosexualize everything because lots of people can't
do anything else. They also can't imagine that there are those who are
truly attracted to members of their own sex so they rationalize that
information in the only way they know how.
>Just seems weird to me that a public person would need to make a public
>statement about their sexuality one way or the other. I guess it's news if you
>are gay....and it seems like in most sports people assume you are straight
>unless told otherwise...but in skating...seems like the men need to make a
>statement one way or the other.
This is sad, but true. Until we can get over homophobia, this will
contimue unfortunately.
Virginia Blalock
>What concerns me about simply renaming the thread is that it begs the
>question of why it is so terrible to be mistaken as gay. It simply goes
>along with social prejudice that there is something wrong with being gay.
I agree with you 100%! Unfortunately, homophobia/gay prejudice is
still acceptable in our society. Being mistaken as gay today is still
a bad thing because gay is still seen as "bad" "deviant" "evil" and
any other negative description you can think of. This is being worked
on, but it will take a LONG while for homosexuality to break away from
its negative sterotypes and definitions.
Sk8Maven
> > Whatever our varying opinions,we have no information to go on and few
> > consider it worth finding out.Why do you care?
>
> Well, Ilia Kulik happens to be my favorite figure skater AND I am gay
> myself.
Oh. Well, he hasn't made any public statements concerning his sexual
orientation, so at this point nobody knows for sure but Ilia.
It really doesn't matter whether your favorite skater shares your
orientation or not -- you can still fantasize about him/her/them to your
heart's content. :-) (Like I have a snowball's chance in a firestorm of
ever actually *meeting* Paul Wylie -- except in my dreams.... :-)
Note: your dreams/fantasies are *your* private business. :-)
Maven
Miriam R. Moore
These long diatrides are exactly *why* the FAQ sez please don't ask if
so and so is gay. This stuff always happens. Can we just Blasingstoke
this and move on??
Miriam
In <Pine.SGI.3.95.97123...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> Naomi
>Naomi
>
>On 31 Dec 1997, Revjoelle wrote:
>
>> >In Kulik's case, I don't think he's ever made any public statement
>> >about it.
>>
>> I have a question for people who read other sports newsgroups. Do
these
>> questions come up about football players? Gymnasts? Tennis
Players?
>>
>> Just seems weird to me that a public person would need to make a
public
>> statement about their sexuality one way or the other. I guess it's
news if you
>> are gay....and it seems like in most sports people assume you are
straight
>> unless told otherwise...but in skating...seems like the men need to
make a
>> statement one way or the other.
>>
>> Does this come up for women who are in sports which are perceived as
more
>> "masculine"?
>>
Miriam R. Moore
We're not shunting any community off. there is no qualification to
contribute, but the group has tried to put parameters on the
discussion.
Asking "is so-and-so gay" became bad because of the way it always
initiates these long drawn out discussions, and because it is usually
asked by someone just trying to cause trouble. What do you have to say
about shunting the gossip community off? What ominous overtone is that?
In <Pine.SGI.3.95.97123...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> Naomi
Lloyd <ll...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> writes:
>
>
>The shunting of any community off to another place has always had
ominous
>overtones for me. Whereas discussing non-skating gay issues would
clearly
>be out of place on this newsgroup, gay issues pertaining to skating
have a
>right to be here as much as heterosexual issues pertaining to skating.
>While I do not anticipate these issues being a large part of the
>newsgroup, they are likely to come up now and again. Skaters get
married,
>they date one another or others outside of the skating world, they
come
>out of the closet etc.
>
>Now if you wanted to shunt all discussion of anything that is off-ice,
>that would seem to be fairer, and not discriminating against one
>community,
>
>Naomi
>
Miriam R. Moore
>question of why it is so terrible to be mistaken as gay. It simply
goes
>along with social prejudice that there is something wrong with being
gay.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was at alt.politics.homosexuality
I'll just trot back to rssif...
Miriam
Nicole C-K
Revjoelle wrote:
>
> >In Kulik's case, I don't think he's ever made any public statement
> >about it.
>
> I have a question for people who read other sports newsgroups. Do these
> questions come up about football players? Gymnasts? Tennis Players?
>
> Just seems weird to me that a public person would need to make a public
> statement about their sexuality one way or the other. I guess it's news if you
> are gay....and it seems like in most sports people assume you are straight
> unless told otherwise...but in skating...seems like the men need to make a
> statement one way or the other.
>
> Does this come up for women who are in sports which are perceived as more
> "masculine"?
>
> Joelle
>
There tends to be more speculation about the women than the men. Maybe
because some of the top all-time women's players have publically "come
out."
Nicole
JM
Maybe it reflects jealousy of all the media attention skating is
getting. But, face it, jocks, this is the sport where sex can be
acted out on the ice. It was MADE for TV!
Trudi Marrapodi
I just tried to stave off discussions of Pasha and her various rumored
lovers, as well as Nicole Bobek's, because I think if you are going to say
unfounded gossip about homosexual skater affairs is off limits, it should
be off limits to gossip about unfounded heterosexual affairs of skaters as
well. Anything else is discrimination, implying that if a skater is gay
the skater deserves protection, but the "apparent hets" have no inherent
right to privacy and thus their lives can be an open book. Sounds fishy
and unfair to me.
Trudi
"Freedom of speech does not provide protection from dissenting opinions"
_________
"Life's too short to do something you hate"--Brian Orser
_________
"If cynicism is unhealthy, then logically the opposite of cynicism -- gullibility -- is good for your health. For example, look at the non-cynical Heaven's Gate people. They are now living in perfect health in a spaceship behind a comet."--Scott Adams
________
To mail me, replace "forgetaboutit" with "frontiernet"
MThorensen
>Hog Doodle (hogd...@aol.com) wrote:
: So what if he's happy,...waht doess
>that have to do with skating? I'd rather
: see a happy skatters thatn a
>bitchy non sakatere.
Hogdoodleboy,are you trying to say "non-skater" or
>"non-sequitur" there?
ROTFLMAO! (did I get that right?)
Great going, Louis. You really know how to sort out the wheat from the chaff on
these sensitive issues. ;-}
Marckus
mthor...@aol.com
Pride
In article <883266793....@dejanews.com>, stev...@mailcity.com
says...
>
>Hey everybody!
>
>Don't get offended or anything - I am just curious. Being gay is nothing
>to be ashamed of. I was just wondering if Ilia Kulik is gay. I have
>heard that a lot of skaters are.
>
>Steve-sven
I think Ilia Kulik could very easily be gay. And personally, I also think
that Todd Elderage is also gay along with Kurt Browning and Brian BOYtano,
and Paul Weily (or however you spell his name).
And ya ya ya.. for those who will write and tell me that Kurt and Brian
are married... Well... lets just say that Micheal Jackson claims the
same thing but we all know what his strategy is now don't we...hummm?
I rest my case...
Being a young 23 year old gay male, I know very well how these games are
played. Brian clearly got married because his manager(s) told him to in
order to cease all the rumors that he was gay, and he would make more money
being married than if the world would know that he was a homosexual.
But times have changed since then. Thank goodness Rudy came out of the
closet and announces his sexuality, and I'm sure he knows quite a lot
about each skater that he could spill the beans on if he so desired.
I hope the trend continues and more skaters will come out of the closet
and show mid-America that yes you can be successfull and be gay at the same
time. Go Rudy!!
Pride Gillis
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <68du0s$3ph$1...@newsd-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, T...@webtv.net
(Cid) wrote:
> NOTICE: I am not refering to the poster who kindly posted the FAQ
> rules or everyone who objects to the gay question.
>
> FAQ, cliques and double standards which and who really rules this
> group?
>
> I doubt the FQA encourages the vulgar language used by some to
> adress the "personal" life of skater Pasha Gritchuk. I notice that the
> FAQ rules where posted after someone asked if a skater is gay.
>
> I cannot control other posters, but IMO to get respect you need to
> give it. If some in this group approve and use vulgar language against
> an unpopular skater. IMO they lack the moral to judge other posters and
> turn to the FQA rules when they chose.
It is important for some people here to realize that the gratuitous
insults to any skater, such as constant namecalling, reveal more about
them than about the skater--and usually it ain't pretty.
> Who rules this group? Some not ALL posters seem to feel they can
> chide other posters personally about what they can and cannot say. I was
> chided for posting my distaste over the Pasha bashing. I did not adress
> anyone personally , and I was not trying to stop anyone from expressing
> their opinion,but an entire clique I recognized but in.
Huh? I didn't get that last line. One thing I don't see is why some people
continue to believe in a "clique" but they never seem to be able to
identify who "belongs" to the alleged clique.
> Some posters feel the "power" to control because they are backed up
> by the same group of people that stand up for each other.
Do they? How do you know, if you're not one of them?
> If you are
> walking down the street and two people are having a silly argument , do
> you but in and take sides? Do you really care to get involved? I doubt
> it. In this group I often see arguments fit for e-mail going on and
> others but in to take sides. Usually it is the "same" people. I would
> say nothing except that I almost left the group because of this "bully"
> double standard.
This is absurd, I think. I speak only for myself but I can say this: When
I butt in, it is not to "take sides" and "defend" certain PEOPLE. It is
because I agree with a given VIEW and want to support it, not an
INDIVIDUAL. Unless an individual is simply being personally flamed and
slammed--in which case I will defend any such victim who appears to be
truly undeserving of such a slam (and most do).
> I was called a nut case by one in the "clique" in the
> name of fair play.
Who?
> The above is only my .02 cents. I hope everyone notices I have NOT
> insulted the WHOLE newsgroup which is often used as an excuse to slam
> someone for posting "their" opinion.
>
> Thank You!
Why don't you think you have insulted the whole newsgroup? You don't get
at all specific. So...and I don't get this business about people being
slammed for posting their opinions. People don't get slammed for posting
their opinions. They get slammed for flaming others.
Revjoelle
>I think Ilia Kulik could very easily be gay. And personally, I also think
that Todd Elderage is also gay along with Kurt Browning and Brian BOYtano, and
Paul Weily (or however you spell his name).
See...to me--this is the problem with "Is so and so gay?" threads--you get into
this ridiculous kind of commentary. People start saying who "looks" gay. And
then someone is going to say you can't tell by looking...and for some reason
this soon leads to someone bringing God into it (and always claiming to speak
for all Christians, but rarely speaking for me and many other Christians I
know) and then it just gets ugly.
>Brian clearly got married because his manager(s) told him to in
>order to cease all the rumors that he was gay, and he would make more money
being married than if the world would know that he was a homosexual.
Trudi? Did Brian Orser get married without telling anybody? Did you know
about this? ;-)
Jusandra
>I think Ilia Kulik could very easily be gay. And personally, I also think
>that Todd Elderage is also gay along with Kurt Browning and Brian BOYtano,
>and Paul Weily (or however you spell his name).
Gee ... someone comes onto a skating newsgroup, proceeds to tell us who's gay
and who's not, and doesn't even know the correct spelling of over half the
skaters' names? <g>
As Church Lady would say, "Well isn't that SPECIAL?"
Jenny
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <SDHq.3553$$4.28...@news.internetMCI.com>, pr...@hotmail.com
(Pride) wrote:
> In article <883266793....@dejanews.com>, stev...@mailcity.com
> says...
> >
> >Hey everybody!
> >
> >Don't get offended or anything - I am just curious. Being gay is nothing
> >to be ashamed of. I was just wondering if Ilia Kulik is gay. I have
> >heard that a lot of skaters are.
> >
> >Steve-sven
But you see, Steve...simply because people are curious about something
doesn't mean they have a right to know. Nobody is saying there's anything
to be ashamed of, we're just protecting the skaters' rights to privacy.
> I think Ilia Kulik could very easily be gay.
This is a meaningless statement, because anyone, if you really think about
it, "could easily be gay" in anyone else's thinking.
> And personally, I also think
> that XXXXXXXX is also gay along with XXXXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXXX,
> and XXXXXXXXXX (or however you spell his name).
And why are we supposed to care about these speculations? This newsgroup
is for discussing skating, not what people do in bed or for making fun of
their names.
> And ya ya ya.. for those who will write and tell me that XXXXXXXXX
> are married... Well... lets just say that Micheal Jackson claims the
> same thing but we all know what his strategy is now don't we...hummm?
> I rest my case...
You shouldn't find too many people claiming that Brian Boitano is married,
as he isn't. Not that that is relevant to the case.
> Being a young 23 year old gay male,
Aren't all 23-year-olds "young" by definition?
> I know very well how these games are
> played.
But you don't really know who's playing them, so why speculate?
> Brian clearly got married because his manager(s) told him to in
> order to cease all the rumors that he was gay, and he would make more money
> being married than if the world would know that he was a homosexual.
> But times have changed since then.
Actually, Brian didn't get married at all--so much for that carefully
thought out theory. So what are you going to say now? "Oh, he must be gay
then, he's not married"? Very interesting. In your world, a man is gay no
matter what he does. If he's single, that's proof positive he's gay. If
he's married, well, we know he just took on a beard so people wouldn't
know he's gay. Must be fun to always be right.
> Thank goodness Rudy came out of the
> closet and announces his sexuality, and I'm sure he knows quite a lot
> about each skater that he could spill the beans on if he so desired.
Possibly so...but he doesn't so desire, and isn't that nice? Rudy must
have this crazy notion that his fellow gay men have the right to make up
their own minds whether or not they want to live "out." He isn't going to
drag them from the closet kicking and screaming. Gosh, he must realize
that he's living his life as he pleases and that his fellow gays have the
right to live their lives as they please...including the right to remain
closeted if that is what they feel they prefer to do or need to do at this
point in time. Whatta guy. I sure admire him.
> I hope the trend continues and more skaters will come out of the closet
> and show mid-America that yes you can be successfull and be gay at the same
> time. Go Rudy!!
> Pride Gillis
Well, Pride, I gather from you name (which I doubt your parents bestowed
upon you) that you are one of those folks who is of the opinion that if
only every gay person on earth were forcibly exposed as such, the world
would be a shiny happy place right away, because everyone would then
immediately be forced to accept all gay people as they are. Sorry, but I
don't think the world works that way. There's still too much prejudice and
bias and outright hatred in this world that needs to be worked on and to
tell the truth, some people don't respond well to surprises and
shocks--or, they respond to surprises and shocks with nothing but more
prejudice, bias and hatred.
Frankly, I think it's up to individuals to choose exactly how much
prejudice, bias and hatred they want to have to deal with. I don't like it
when gay folks out-and-out lie about their sexual orientation (although I
understand the pressures that cause some to choose to do so), but I have
no objection whatsoever to people making their own decisions about if and
when to "come out," and to whom. I highly disapprove of this idea that if
only some self-styled liberator comes along and outs every prominent gay
person, the whole world will be better and happier and more accepting.
Because sadly, I don't think it will--and in the meantime, a whole lot of
people are going to be forced to endure a lot of pain they didn't deserve.
You may have made one choice and Rudy may have made it too, but that
doesn't make it the right choice for everybody. I know it must hurt to see
the crap you have to deal with and feel annoyed that there are other guys
out there who don't have to deal with it. You may think that if only they
were FORCED to, the world would get better for you. I don't think society
responds too well to forcing. Minds and hearts get changed slowly, one at
a time, through complex processes. Rudy is part of that process, maybe.
Good for him.
But what I think really isn't the issue. The real issue at hand is our
policy here that we don't talk a lot about who is supposedly gay, or
speculate about it. We focus on the skating. We don't play guessing games
with people's lives. If you don't like it, trot on over to
alt.showbiz.gossip, where the rules are significantly different.
Joseph DiPasquale
Maybe what is really needed is another newsgroup for skating gossip --
istead of alt.showbiz.gossip, alt.skating.gossip, or
rec.sport.skating.ice.figure.gossip. Then everyone could be happy: those
who want to gossip can, and those who don't won't.
-Joe-
Phefner
(phe...@aol.com) wrote:
: >>: Don't get offended or anything - I am just curious. Being gay is nothing
: >> >: to be ashamed of. I was just wondering if Ilia Kulik is gay. I have
: >> >: heard that a lot of skaters are.
: >> >:
: >> >: Steve-sven
: >> >
: Who cares? I'm interested in his skating; what he does at home is none of our
: damn business.
: Patricia
--
***********************************************************************
"well still pretty good year"
-Tori Amos
Jennifer Lyon
lor...@plover.com wrote:
> It may seem weird, but it's naive about public life to think that
>it _shouldn't_ be an issue, so therefore it _won't_ be. The straight
or
>bisexual skaters who get married (Sand, Petrenko, Weiss) readily
release
>public statements about it.
Very true, and the male skaters who are supposedly straight and unmarried
make sure that the fans *know* that they're straight-- they speak of
their girlfriends, or they talk about how they wish they had time for a
girlfriend. I'm sure that not *all* of the men who say these things
really are straight. But gay or straight, these guys have to deal with
the stereotypes.
>That leaves the rest of them in a place that
>swirls with insinuations and sniggers and outright persecution.
Perhaps
>some of them are so well-supported in their private lives that it
doesn't
>affect them. But anyone who works with homophobia, including
homophobia
>against straight men suspected of being gay, knows the toll it takes
and
>how you feel you're behind the 8-ball and MUST do SOMETHING about it.
Agreed.
> I came out over a decade ago because it was just easier than lying
>all the time to everyone. (And don't think they didn't ask about my
>sexual orientation. "Do you have a boyfriend? When are you getting
>married?") I had better uses for my energy.
These are the same questions that skaters (both male and female) are
asked over and over again. If a male skater doesn't have a girlfriend or
a wife, he is almost forced to express an interest in finding one.
Teenaged female skaters are in a bit of a bind. If they don't date boys,
then people express concerns about how they're missing out on a "normal"
teenaged social life. But the ones who have talked of boyfriends (such as
Nicole Bobek) are sometimes accused of being "bad' girls who spend too
much time partying and not enough time focusing on their training. Only
the older female skaters are in a secure position.
Any skater (male or female) who isn't straight has two choices: lie or
come out. So far, only a few have chosen to come out.
BTW, Rudy isn't the only elite-level skater who has come out. Toller
Cranston wrote about his same-sex relationships in his book, "Zero
Tollerance." I don't remember if he actually labelled himself as gay, but
he makes it pretty clear that he isn't straight.
stev...@mailcity.com
In article <68cjhj$t2e$1...@picasso.op.net>,
lor...@plover.com (Lorrie Kim) wrote:
>
> I don't think it's necessary to know a celebrity's sexuality in
> order to lust after them. After all, suppose their orientation matches
> your own -- does that actually increase your chances of sleeping with them?
> If you think the answer is yes, here's the number for Stalkers Anonymous.
> Anyway, here's a tip for newbies: if you ask, "Is this skater
> gay?" a lot of people will scold you. If you ask, "Is this skater's sexual
> orientation a matter of public record?" people may realize they have no
> excuse to jump down your throat.
> In Kulik's case, I don't think he's ever made any public statement
> about it.
>
> lor...@plover.com
I am quite offended that you would think that I would EVER hurt or bother
Ilia Kulik! I am not a stalker, nor do I intend on becoming one. I
think it would be nice to know his sexuality - crushes or personal
interest in someone generally incorporate the WHOLE picture and not just
tiny scraps. I don't mean anyone any harm. Ilia is my favorite skater
and I would hate it if anything happened to him.
Steve-Sven
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
ado...@hotmail.com
He is a cute little thing (okay, I'm older). Nobody on this list has a
chance (male or female), so I guess it doesn't matter. It's not like
he's going to stroll down the streets of any of our hometowns any time
soon. And I'm sure he'll be looking for someone Russian. :)
Doodle Lady
MyBrian
snip
>And ya ya ya.. for those who will write and tell me that Kurt and Brian
>are married... Well... lets just say that Micheal Jackson claims the
>same thing but we all know what his strategy is now don't we...hummm?
>I rest my case...
>
>Being a young 23 year old gay male, I know very well how these games are
>played. Brian clearly got married because his manager(s) told him to in
>order to cease all the rumors that he was gay, and he would make more money
>being married than if the world would know that he was a homosexual.
>But times have changed since then. Thank goodness Rudy came out of the
>closet and announces his sexuality, and I'm sure he knows quite a lot
>about each skater that he could spill the beans on if he so desired.
>
>I hope the trend continues and more skaters will come out of the closet
>and show mid-America that yes you can be successfull and be gay at the same
>time. Go Rudy!!
>
>
>
>Pride Gillis
>
>Brian Boitano got married. This is news to me and probably
a lot of other people too. Who did he marry and when?
source please!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
Barb.
"Brian is the best skater of his generation"
From the TOC television special
@--->-->---
Lorrie Kim
In article <883698817....@dejanews.com>,
<stev...@mailcity.com> wrote:
>In article <68cjhj$t2e$1...@picasso.op.net>,
> lor...@plover.com (Lorrie Kim) wrote:
>>
>> I don't think it's necessary to know a celebrity's sexuality in
>> order to lust after them. After all, suppose their orientation matches
>> your own -- does that actually increase your chances of sleeping with them?
>> If you think the answer is yes, here's the number for Stalkers Anonymous.
>
>Ilia Kulik! I am not a stalker, nor do I intend on becoming one. I
>think it would be nice to know his sexuality - crushes or personal
>interest in someone generally incorporate the WHOLE picture and not just
>tiny scraps. I don't mean anyone any harm. Ilia is my favorite skater
>and I would hate it if anything happened to him.
Goodness, I didn't mean you personally, Steve-sven! I'm very
sorry! I see how it would look like I did. I meant "you" generically.
I like Kulik's skating myself. But I'm not going to say how much
until after that little event in February, just in case....well, just in
case.
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
Cheche422
>I think Ilia Kulik could very easily be gay. And personally, I also think
>that Todd Elderage is also gay along with Kurt Browning and Brian BOYtano,
>
>
Let's not get into a conspiracy theory on who has a fake marriage and who
doesn't! For one thing as far as I know Brian has never been married. And who
is Brian BOYtano anyway??
Virginia Blalock
He is probably a college roomate of Todd Elderage, whoever he is<g>.
Sk8Maven
> It appears to me that dancing by men in predominant America culture is
> only acceptable if:
>
> - the young male's relatives force him to dance at a family event
> or
> - there is potential romance involved.
>
> All other dancing by males puts their masculinity into question.
> I'm not saying this is right. It is merely an observation. Ever see
> John Wayne dance?
Actually, yes. The big guy cut quite a skilled jitterbug in a shoreside
"R&R" scene from one of his war movies. (That was back when he was still
young enough *to* dance, though.)
Reportedly, Clark Gable had two left feet and the waltz scene in "Gone
With the Wind" was faked by having him & Vivien Leigh wheeled around on
a low platform while they did appropriate dips and bobs.
James Cagney not only could dance, he was an outstanding hoofer -- as he
proved conclusively when portraying George M. Cohan in "Yankee Doodle
Dandy".
Goerge Raft and Carole Lombard beat Torvill & Dean to the idea of using
"Bolero" as a dance of death by about fifty years. (Raft used to earn
his living as a professional dance partner in shady New York City
dancehalls with underworld connections. He was often accused of being a
gangster himself, but never of being "unmanly".)
I don't know when this crap about "Real Men Don't Dance" infested US
culture, but it must have been fairly recently. Some very Real Men did
some very real dancing in times gone by.
Maven
Jusandra
>>Let's not get into a conspiracy theory on who has a fake marriage and who
>>doesn't! For one thing as far as I know Brian has never been married. And
>who
>>is Brian BOYtano anyway??
>
>He is probably a college roomate of Todd Elderage, whoever he is<g>.
>
>Virginia
LOL!! Virginia gets off a good one!! :-)
Jenny
Louis Epstein
Virginia Blalock (skat...@usa.net) wrote:
: On 2 Jan 1998 05:12:05 GMT, chec...@aol.com (Cheche422) wrote:
:
: >>I think Ilia Kulik could very easily be gay. And personally, I also think
: >>that Todd Elderage is also gay along with Kurt Browning and Brian BOYtano,
: >>and Paul Weily (or however you spell his name).
: >>
: >
: >Let's not get into a conspiracy theory on who has a fake marriage and who
: >doesn't! For one thing as far as I know Brian has never been married. And who
: >is Brian BOYtano anyway??
:
: He is probably a college roomate of Todd Elderage, whoever he is<g>.
Surely Todd Elderage,with that name,is a senior citizen?
BRYAN BOITANO,of course,is oone of those alleged Australians known
only to the Chuckie Monster.
Louis Epstein
Naomi Lloyd (ll...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: What concerns me about simply renaming the thread is that it begs the
: question of why it is so terrible to be mistaken as gay. It simply goes
: along with social prejudice that there is something wrong with being gay.
Which is something on which people disagree.
(You would prefer,I presume,social prejudice that there's nothing wrong
with it;but leaving the issue out of rssif to avoid fights over it
requires that it be addressed neutrally).
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
:
ado...@hotmail.com
<snip>
> >But times have changed since then. Thank goodness Rudy came out of the
> >closet and announces his sexuality, and I'm sure he knows quite a lot
> >about each skater that he could spill the beans on if he so desired.
I just read Rudy Galindo's book this past week. In fact, Rudy does say
when he was on tour some of the skaters he toured with he thought were
gay, some straight. He said he felt if they didn't want to announce it,
then it was not his place to announce it either. He would keep his mouth
shut.
This whole "is so-and-so gay" thing is silly. I have ideas about who is,
as I'm sure other people do too. Since I'll never know unless they out
themselves, what's the point of endless speculation? I'll keep my ideas
to myself.
Norman Reef
<<Any skater (male or female) who isn't straight has two choices: lie or
come out. So far, only a few have chosen to come out.>>
This newsgroup suggests a third choice: saying the subject is not open for
discussion. What a revolutionary thought--that private lives be kept
private!
--Norman
Trudi Marrapodi
Oh no! Coming soon...a post in which Chuckie outs that famous German
skater, Brian BOYtano, who won the gold medal for West Germany at the 1988
Olympics and made all his fellow West Germans proud...
Funtime Frankie
Louis Epstein (l...@put.com) wrote:
: Surely Todd Elderage,with that name,is a senior citizen?
: BRYAN BOITANO,of course,is oone of those alleged Australians known
: only to the Chuckie Monster.
Bryan Boitano is AMERICAN. He won the gold medal for the United States,
at the 1988 Olympics, in Calgary. He was the first American to win the mens
Olympic gold medal since Ricardo "Dick" Boton won gold for the United States
at the 1948 and 1952 Olympics.
I was THERE covering the 1988 Olympics for my E-zine(of course we were not
on Internet,back then), and there WAS a "Bryan Boitano" announced as winning
the gold medal, and the United States national anthem was played, so you
can NOT say that he does not exist, he OBVIOUSLY *MUST* EXIST.
There are TWO ways to spell Todd's name, and "Elderage" is NOT one of
them. "Eldridge" is actually the correct spelling, but there is one common
misspelling "Eldredge" that probably gets it's origins from the name of
a Navy ship where a well-known time-travel experiment was conducted in 1943.
You see it in the two movies they made about it. There WAS a "USS Eldredge"
in the Navy fleet, at one time.
And finally, I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE!!!!!!
JM
On 3 Jan 1998 15:50:36 -0000, Funtime Frankie <fun...@nym.alias.net>
wrote:
>Louis Epstein (l...@put.com) wrote:
>
>: Surely Todd Elderage,with that name,is a senior citizen?
>: BRYAN BOITANO,of course,is oone of those alleged Australians known
>: only to the Chuckie Monster.
>
>
> Bryan Boitano is AMERICAN. He won the gold medal for the United States,
>at the 1988 Olympics, in Calgary. He was the first American to win the mens
>Olympic gold medal since Ricardo "Dick" Boton won gold for the United States
>at the 1948 and 1952 Olympics.
Did someone get hooked on a troll here?
Louis Epstein
JM (j...@nospam.com) wrote:
: On 3 Jan 1998 15:50:36 -0000, Funtime Frankie <fun...@nym.alias.net>
I invoked a troll,and he responded to the mention of his name.
Let us whisper next time..."c-----e m-----r".
Revjoelle
> And finally, I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE!!!!!!
>
Joelle
"Life is an adventure...it's not meant to be easy and I learned its not
supposed to be fair. It's what you make of it, where you take it, how you deal
with it."
Scott Hamilton
Louis Epstein
Sk8Maven (sk8m...@monumental.com) wrote:
: > > Whatever our varying opinions,we have no information to go on and few
: > > consider it worth finding out.Why do you care?
: >
: > Well, Ilia Kulik happens to be my favorite figure skater AND I am gay
: > myself.
:
: Oh. Well, he hasn't made any public statements concerning his sexual
: orientation, so at this point nobody knows for sure but Ilia.
:
: It really doesn't matter whether your favorite skater shares your
: orientation or not -- you can still fantasize about him/her/them to your
: heart's content. :-) (Like I have a snowball's chance in a firestorm of
: ever actually *meeting* Paul Wylie -- except in my dreams.... :-)
:
: Note: your dreams/fantasies are *your* private business. :-)
Personally,I consider it disrespectful to fantasize about someone in a way
the person would be annoyed to know about.
Sarah Weinman
Jay Gluck wrote:
> If you're such a journalist, then how come you can't get your facts
> straight? Do I not recall the American national anthem being played
> after Scott Hamilton's victory in 1984? Surely that was after Button
> and before Boitano.
Ah, just ignore "Funtime Frankie" or whatever Chuckie is using for his
latest alias. Chuck Newman, aka "Chuckie Monster" is a rather harmless
man who likes to spread cutesy misinformation about skaters. I find him
quite amusing, and I really wonder why it pushes Louis's buttons like
that.
The best comparison is to the Road Runner cartoons: Louis, in his Wile.
E. Coyote persona, has been trying to catch Chuckie, the fearless Road
Runner. And of course, Wile E. never can succeed....but I wonder what
kind of Acme products are being employed by the tireless coyote.
Sarah (who really *does* wonder why Mr. Epstein takes Mr. Newman so damn
seriously....)
>
Funtime Frankie
Revjoelle (revj...@aol.com) wrote:
: > And finally, I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE!!!!!!
: >
: Are too.
I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE!!!!!! There is absolutely, postively *NO* CHUCKIE
*WHATSOEVER*, at THIS E-zine. And before some people on this group start
saying otherwise, I am going to school in ENGLAND, and I am doing a LOT
better than I *EVER* did at CSU, Sacramento. I think I made the right move
going to business school in England.
Because people INSIST that I am Chuckie, when I am NOT, I often times
use DejaNews, and search under the keyword "Chuckie", in the all of the
figure skating newsgroups, so I can refute it, when anybody tries to insist
I am Chuckie when I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE.
-Funtime Frankie
Anonymous Australian Newswire Services
Sydney, NSW, Australia
Jay Gluck
>
> Bryan Boitano is AMERICAN. He won the gold medal for the United
States,
>at the 1988 Olympics, in Calgary. He was the first American to win
the mens
>Olympic gold medal since Ricardo "Dick" Boton won gold for the
United States
>at the 1948 and 1952 Olympics.
If you're such a journalist, then how come you can't get your facts
straight? Do I not recall the American national anthem being played
after Scott Hamilton's victory in 1984? Surely that was after Button
and before Boitano.
Jay
Louis Epstein
Chuckie "Funtime Frankie" Newman (fun...@nym.alias.net) wrote:
: Revjoelle (revj...@aol.com) wrote:
: : > And finally, I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE!!!!!!
: : >
: : Are too.
:
:
: I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE!!!!!! There is absolutely, postively *NO* CHUCKIE
: *WHATSOEVER*, at THIS E-zine. And before some people on this group start
: saying otherwise, I am going to school in ENGLAND, and I am doing a LOT
: better than I *EVER* did at CSU, Sacramento. I think I made the right move
: going to business school in England.
: Because people INSIST that I am Chuckie, when I am NOT, I often times
: use DejaNews, and search under the keyword "Chuckie", in the all of the
: figure skating newsgroups, so I can refute it, when anybody tries to insist
: I am Chuckie when I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE.
The use of constantly changing pseudonyms and fictitious locations
is SOOOOOOO Chuckie!!!
Louis Epstein
Jay Gluck (jgl...@interlog.com) wrote:
: >
: > Bryan Boitano is AMERICAN. He won the gold medal for the United
So were the Jenkins brothers...but this is CHUCKIE you're taking to!
Misinformation is the only reason he posts!Notice the "Ricardo Boton"!!
Louis Epstein
Sarah Weinman (wein...@netcom.ca) wrote:
:
: Sarah (who really *does* wonder why Mr. Epstein takes Mr. Newman so damn
: seriously....)
On behalf of the naive newbie who thinks Chuckie is serious.
Funtime Frankie
[followups directed to alt.skate]
Sarah Weinman (wein...@netcom.ca) wrote:
: Ah, just ignore "Funtime Frankie" or whatever Chuckie is using for his
: latest alias. Chuck Newman, aka "Chuckie Monster" is a rather harmless
: man who likes to spread cutesy misinformation about skaters. I find him
: quite amusing, and I really wonder why it pushes Louis's buttons like
: that.
: The best comparison is to the Road Runner cartoons: Louis, in his Wile.
: E. Coyote persona, has been trying to catch Chuckie, the fearless Road
That's "Wiley Coyote". I once used that as an alias, back in my
anon.penet.fi days.
: Runner. And of course, Wile E. never can succeed....but I wonder what
: kind of Acme products are being employed by the tireless coyote.
: Sarah (who really *does* wonder why Mr. Epstein takes Mr. Newman so damn
: seriously....)
Well, we, here at AANS, are hanging out now where Louis has almost NEVER
bothered us(except right after Easterns). We have been posting on alt.skate
for some time TOTALLY *UNABATED*. Most of the AANS staff has been off for
the Christmas and New Years holidays, so there will not be very much on
there now, but that is going to change very quickly, as the North American
Figure Skating Championships take place this week, in Cancun, Mexico.
I am writing this to you from Cancun, home of the 1998 North American
Figure Skating Championships.
Note: followups to this thread are being directed to alt.skate, as there
are a lot of people here who are NOT very receptive to flamewars here.
HILL JANET SWAN
>Sarah (who really *does* wonder why Mr. Epstein takes Mr. Newman so damn
>seriously....)
Altruism. Louis knows that people who have NOT been here a while and have
NOT encountered Chuckie postings before may well believe what they read,
OR they may well believe that this "Chuckie-person" is a nice person who
is innocently uninformed, and out of kindness, or irritation, or a desire
to set the record straight, they will reply in some manner or other.
My guess is that Louis does some of what he does as a "pre-emptive
strike", believing that if the misinformation went unchallenged, it would
be believed by some, and begin to be taken as fact, and would begin to
enter "genuine" threads, and would have to be corrected THEN.
janet
--
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <1998010400564...@nym.alias.net>, Funtime Frankie
<fun...@nym.alias.net> wrote:
> Revjoelle (revj...@aol.com) wrote:
> : > And finally, I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE!!!!!!
> : >
> : Are too.
>
>
> I AM *NOT* CHUCKIE!!!!!! There is absolutely, postively *NO* CHUCKIE
> *WHATSOEVER*, at THIS E-zine. And before some people on this group start
> saying otherwise, I am going to school in ENGLAND, and I am doing a LOT
> better than I *EVER* did at CSU, Sacramento.
Since when is Cleveland State University located in Sacramento, California?:-)
stev...@mailcity.com
In article <68hrc0$sg4$1...@picasso.op.net>,
Sorry to get worked up. I realize that quite a few celebrities have
problems with stalkers, so I totally see your point. Whether Ilia wins
gold or not - he is still my favorite skater. If not this Olympics, then
maybe the next will be his. Good luck Ilia!
Steve-Sven
Claire Abraham
Bryan Boitano is AMERICAN. He won the gold medal for the United States,
>>at the 1988 Olympics, in Calgary. He was the first American to win the
mens
>>Olympic gold medal since Ricardo "Dick" Boton won gold for the United
States
>>at the 1948 and 1952 Olympics.
Giggle. You forgot Scottie.
You know, Scott? Hamilton? He of the tiny stature and huge smile? 1984
Olympic Champion. Definitely American.
Louis Epstein
Claire Abraham (CZW...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: Bryan Boitano is AMERICAN. He won the gold medal for the United States,
This is CHUCKIE,Claire.To misinform is the only reason he posts!
Revjoelle
>>Giggle. You forgot Scottie.
>:
>: You know, Scott? Hamilton? He of the tiny stature and huge smile? 1984
>: Olympic Champion. Definitely American.
>This is CHUCKIE,Claire.To misinform is the only reason he posts!
I was rather relieved that he left Scott out of his fiction. Who knows what
nonsense he would have made up about him. ;-)
Sk8Maven
> : Note: your dreams/fantasies are *your* private business. :-)
>
> Personally,I consider it disrespectful to fantasize about someone in a
> way the person would be annoyed to know about.
That's why they *should* remain private -- then only *you* know about
them. :-)
Maven
Marie L. Hughes
> I don't think it's necessary to know a celebrity's sexuality in
>order to lust after them. After all, suppose their orientation matches
>your own -- does that actually increase your chances of sleeping with them?
As a friend of mine is fond of pointing out to me: If a guy isn't interested
in him, he might as well be straight! :)
Sometimes I think it's better not to know too much about the people whose
work we admire. I can think in particular of an author that I've met on two
occassions and as a result I find it impossible to read any of his books. My
friends keep telling me that they're great and I'm missing out, but whenever
I pick one up, I have flashes of the times I met him and what an weasel he
was. So, I guess I'll never read one of 'weasel boy's' books--and for all I
know, that could be a real loss.
The same with a skater -- if I love their lines and choreography and their
skating moves me, I really don't want to know that they are a prima donna,
or mean to their fans, or stupid or otherwise lacking in 'real life' because
it might make it hard to enjoy their skating.
Marie
----------------------------------------------
"You might as well laugh at yourself once in a while--everyone else does."
hug...@marie.org http://www.marie.org
marie_...@intuit.com http://www.quicken.com
Louis Epstein
Sk8Maven (sk8m...@monumental.com) wrote:
: > : Note: your dreams/fantasies are *your* private business. :-)
Nonetheless,I make use of my ability to imagine women more beautiful
and complaisant than any who would *really* make time for me!
Louis Epstein
crosspost added to rssif
: Sarah Weinman (wein...@netcom.ca) wrote:
:
: : Ah, just ignore "Funtime Frankie" or whatever Chuckie is using for his
: : latest alias. Chuck Newman, aka "Chuckie Monster" is a rather harmless
: : man who likes to spread cutesy misinformation about skaters. I find him
: : quite amusing, and I really wonder why it pushes Louis's buttons like
: : that.
:
: : The best comparison is to the Road Runner cartoons: Louis, in his Wile.
: : E. Coyote persona, has been trying to catch Chuckie, the fearless Road
:
: That's "Wiley Coyote". I once used that as an alias, back in my
: anon.penet.fi days.
Whatever name,it's always you,Chuckie!
: : Runner. And of course, Wile E. never can succeed....but I wonder what
: : kind of Acme products are being employed by the tireless coyote.
:
: : Sarah (who really *does* wonder why Mr. Epstein takes Mr. Newman so damn
: : seriously....)
:
:
: Well, we, here at AANS, are hanging out now where Louis has almost NEVER
: bothered us(except right after Easterns). We have been posting on alt.skate
: for some time TOTALLY *UNABATED*. Most of the AANS staff has been off for
: the Christmas and New Years holidays, so there will not be very much on
The entire AANS staff consists of YOU,Chuckie.
: there now, but that is going to change very quickly, as the North American
: Figure Skating Championships take place this week, in Cancun, Mexico.
: I am writing this to you from Cancun, home of the 1998 North American
: Figure Skating Championships.
North Americans were last held in 1971.
: Note: followups to this thread are being directed to alt.skate, as there
: are a lot of people here who are NOT very receptive to flamewars here.
But the point is,here or there,we're not receptive to your balderdash.
Louis Epstein
Revjoelle (revj...@aol.com) wrote:
: >>Giggle. You forgot Scottie.
: >: You know, Scott? Hamilton? He of the tiny stature and huge smile? 1984
: >: Olympic Champion. Definitely American.
:
: >This is CHUCKIE,Claire.To misinform is the only reason he posts!
:
: I was rather relieved that he left Scott out of his fiction. Who knows what
: nonsense he would have made up about him. ;-)
Trudi and II had some fun before first you showed up with tales of the
fampus Hebridean clan chief,The Scott-Hamilton,and his rival,the champion
of Ireland,Brian O'Rser.
MyBrian
Why is this thread named Bryan Boitano when it should
really be called "chuckie"
and.....since when Did Brian start spelling his name Bryan.
confusing at best.
Barb.
"Brian is the best skater of his generation"
From the TOC television special
@--->-->---
Kathleen Bratton
> This newsgroup suggests a third choice: saying the subject is not open for
> discussion. What a revolutionary thought--that private lives be kept
> private!
Only problem is that sometimes they are not kept private....so you're
going to have discussions (for instance) about Meno & Sands, when they
left their respective skating partners . . . discussions that touch upon
both the private and public. And you're going to have discussions about
Rudy's sexual orientation, because he _has_ made it public....
Bottom line is: whether we consider a question 'inappropriate' is to some
degree dependent on whether we know the answer. I'd be willing to bet
that few would give someone a hard time about asking the question "is Rudy
Galindo gay?", but there is a sense that asking the question "is Ilya
Kulik gay?" is out-of-bounds. And, I agree with the general sentiment of
'why would anyone care?' -- but apparently Galindo and a few others
thought that there were good reasons to make their sexual orientation
public knowledge. Maybe they just got tired of the questions, maybe they
thought it was important to have gay role models -- whatever.
I guess the solution is twofold:
-- stay away from questions and comments about personal lives unless you
can show how they're skating related, and
maybe if people ask "is so-and-so-gay" the appropriate and brief response
is just to assess public knowledge about the fact. I.e., "he has never
made any public statement to that effect."
-- Kate
Mary Swim
I'm reposting this article from rec.sport.skating.ice.figure to
rec.folk-dancing to see what further comments people have on it.
Is this the reason there are never enough men to go around at squares,
contras, or ballroom dances? Don't they know that's where the women
are? Is it a masculinity thing, or a fear of not being good enough or
of "making a fool of himself", whatever that means?
Personally, I think men who dance are the sexiest ones.
Mary " If you won't dance, don't ask me."
~~~~~~~~
Sk8Maven <sk8m...@monumental.com> wrote:
>> It appears to me that dancing by men in predominant America culture is
>> only acceptable if:
>>
>> - the young male's relatives force him to dance at a family event
>> or
>> - there is potential romance involved.
>>
>> All other dancing by males puts their masculinity into question.
>> I'm not saying this is right. It is merely an observation. Ever see
>> John Wayne dance?
>Actually, yes. The big guy cut quite a skilled jitterbug in a shoreside
>"R&R" scene from one of his war movies. (That was back when he was still
>young enough *to* dance, though.)
>Reportedly, Clark Gable had two left feet and the waltz scene in "Gone
>With the Wind" was faked by having him & Vivien Leigh wheeled around on
>a low platform while they did appropriate dips and bobs.
>James Cagney not only could dance, he was an outstanding hoofer -- as he
>proved conclusively when portraying George M. Cohan in "Yankee Doodle
>Dandy".
>Goerge Raft and Carole Lombard beat Torvill & Dean to the idea of using
>"Bolero" as a dance of death by about fifty years. (Raft used to earn
>his living as a professional dance partner in shady New York City
>dancehalls with underworld connections. He was often accused of being a
>gangster himself, but never of being "unmanly".)
>I don't know when this crap about "Real Men Don't Dance" infested US
>culture, but it must have been fairly recently. Some very Real Men did
>some very real dancing in times gone by.
>Maven
Mary E. Swim, Application Programmer
WVU Office of Health Services Research
West Virginia University
Morgantown, WV 26507 USA
(304)293-1079
ms...@wvu.edu
http://wvnvm.wvnet.edu/~mswim
Kaiju
pi...@antispam.com wrote:
>
> On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:31:13 -0500, ms...@wvuohsr.hsc.wvu.edu (Mary Swim) wrote:
>
> >I'm reposting this article from rec.sport.skating.ice.figure to
> >rec.folk-dancing to see what further comments people have on it.
> >
> >Is this the reason there are never enough men to go around at squares,
> >contras, or ballroom dances? Don't they know that's where the women
> >are? Is it a masculinity thing, or a fear of not being good enough or
> >of "making a fool of himself", whatever that means?
> >
> >Personally, I think men who dance are the sexiest ones.
> >
> >Mary " If you won't dance, don't ask me."
> This talk about guys dancing reminds me of the movie, "Strictly Ballroom," one of my
> favourites. The actor in it proves that you can ballroom dance and still look very hot.
> Works for me.
Oh, my. Talk about very masculine dancers. Even as craggy as Al Pacion looks
today, he was hot dancing the Tango in "Scent of a Woman". Not to mention the
havoc wreaked by real male Tango dancers that tour the States annually.
Kaiju <fanning herself>
pi...@antispam.com
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:31:13 -0500, ms...@wvuohsr.hsc.wvu.edu (Mary Swim) wrote:
>I'm reposting this article from rec.sport.skating.ice.figure to
>rec.folk-dancing to see what further comments people have on it.
>
>Is this the reason there are never enough men to go around at squares,
>contras, or ballroom dances? Don't they know that's where the women
>are? Is it a masculinity thing, or a fear of not being good enough or
>of "making a fool of himself", whatever that means?
>
>Personally, I think men who dance are the sexiest ones.
>
>Mary " If you won't dance, don't ask me."
This talk about guys dancing reminds me of the movie, "Strictly Ballroom," one of my
favourites. The actor in it proves that you can ballroom dance and still look very hot.
Works for me.
---
To send email replace "antispam" with "bigfoot"
Paul J. Stamler
And while we're at it, women don't outnumber men in every dance scene.
In St. Louis we have a fairly consistent surplus of men at contra
dancing, also at English and Waltz evenings. Swing looks pretty even.
Peace.
Paul
JM
On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 05:17:20 GMT, pi...@antispam.com wrote:
>This talk about guys dancing reminds me of the movie, "Strictly Ballroom," one of my
>favourites. The actor in it proves that you can ballroom dance and still look very hot.
>Works for me.
As if that was some sort of contradiction. Hard to think of any other
way that men have won as many ladies hearts in history. At some point
you gotta dance or you're going NOWHERE!
JM
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:28:38 -0800, Kaiju <ka...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>
wrote:
>Oh, my. Talk about very masculine dancers. Even as craggy as Al Pacion looks
>today, he was hot dancing the Tango in "Scent of a Woman". Not to mention the
>havoc wreaked by real male Tango dancers that tour the States annually.
Not to mention Michael Flatley in "Riverdance" and "Lord of the
Dance". I'd love to have HIS dancing partners!
JM
>Personally, I think men who dance are the sexiest ones.
Ahem... well, we're finally talking about MY "sport". Funny, doesnt
make me sexy! But, then, I don't care. First, I'se married (to
another dancer). Second, dancing is just too, too fun to worry about
all this other stuff (until you've done Bulgarian dance, you can't
begin to understand what I mean).
Robert Frederking
> And while we're at it, women don't outnumber men in every dance scene.
I think the same is true for Pittsburgh; on any given night we might
have a surplus of men or of women ata contra or swing dance.
I think there *is* a general lack of interest by American guys in
dancing at parties, bars, etc., tied into a fear of moving gracefully
(and looking effeminate), but I don't think it carries over much into
more "serious" dancing. (Not that I dance "seriously".)
Maybe dance *weekends* more often have a surplus of women? This might
be due to other factors, such as depth of interest in dancing or
something.
(As an aside, a comedian once pointed out that John Wayne actually had a
very graceful, effeminate walk, but he was so tough, it didn't matter.)