Male figure-skaters
James R. Mullin
If he's such a good skater, why didn't he play hockey? Now
that's beauty. The medium of ice, speed and grace with the capability to
deliver bone crushing checks yet agile enough to get out of the way.
Anyway, I could never figure out why someone would give up
hockey to figure skate, no I didn't mean finger paint.
Ryan Mullin
gl...@primenet.com
>From: "James R. Mullin" <jrmu...@pogonip.scs.unr.edu>
>Subject: Male figure-skaters
>Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:57:36 -0700
> Ryan Mullin
>
If a person is an athlete he should play football. Now football is the ONLY
game worth being called a sport.
Seriously why don't you drink your own cup of tea and let others drink theirs
without criticism. Not everyone wants to break teeth or break bones. As if
there is NEVER teeth or bones lost to figure skating.
Kevin Anderson
> If he's such a good skater, why didn't he play hockey? Now
>that's beauty. The medium of ice, speed and grace with the capability to
>deliver bone crushing checks yet agile enough to get out of the way.
> Anyway, I could never figure out why someone would give up
>hockey to figure skate, no I didn't mean finger paint.
Hmmmmm, I guess you are more into artistry of violence than skating. I have
to admit I appreciate a good knee to the groin as much as the next guy
(as a spectator, that is, not a receiver), but I think you are confusing
two completely different things. Hockey is a GAME. Figure skating is
SKATING. The rewards of the two activities are totally different.
The worst figure skaters could skate rings around the best hockey players.
All you have to do in hockey is be able to skate forwards, backwards, and
stop and start quickly. I would think that most hockey players can't
do single jumps that most 10 year olds can do.
It's a shame, too, because many of the hockey players I see are closet
figure skaters. They are playing hockey because it is accepatable in their
social circles, whereas figure skating isn't. I have seen countless boys
trying to jump and spin in hockey skates. If I went over and told them
they were trying to figure skate they'd probably freak out.
If you have to ask a question like, "If he is such a good skater, why doesn't
he play hockey?" tells me you know absolutely nothing about what it means to
skate. Sure, there are reasons for choosing hockey over figure skating, but
becoming a skater is most definetly not one of them. BTW, who is "he"?
You often see figure skaters going over to hockey, but not the other way around.
It's a lot easier going from figure to hockey than the other way around.
As a matter of fact, I would say that learning to hockey skate first would almost
preclude you from becoming a good figure skater.
If it's violence you appreciate, it takes a LOT more guts to even attempt certain
jumps than it does to go around and get into fights. I don't think most
hockey players would have the balls to take the beating and fear it takes to learn,
say, a triple axel. If you want to see REAL crunching blows on the ice, check
out any pairs skater who's ever dropped his partner from a height of 6-7 feet
right on to her face.
Kevin
Julie Miller
>In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.950423...@pogonip.scs.unr.edu> "James R. Mullin" <jrmu...@pogonip.scs.unr.edu> writes:
>>From: "James R. Mullin" <jrmu...@pogonip.scs.unr.edu>
>>Subject: Male figure-skaters
>>Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:57:36 -0700
>
>
>>that's beauty. The medium of ice, speed and grace with the capability to
>>deliver bone crushing checks yet agile enough to get out of the way.
>
>> Anyway, I could never figure out why someone would give up
>>hockey to figure skate, no I didn't mean finger paint.
>
>
>>
>
>
>If a person is an athlete he should play football. Now football is the ONLY
>game worth being called a sport.
>
>Seriously why don't you drink your own cup of tea and let others drink theirs
>without criticism. Not everyone wants to break teeth or break bones. As if
>there is NEVER teeth or bones lost to figure skating.
Well, I can't figure out why anyone would rather play hockey than figure
skate! :)
Seriously, I wish there were more male figure skaters, and not just because
I'm looking for a skating partner. I really enjoy watching the men's portion
of competitions more than the women's. I like the sheer power of the men;
all that speed and strength under control is a really beautiful thing to
watch.
I wish the stereotype of male figure skaters being effeminate (sp?) would
go away; I'm sure there are a few gay figure skaters out there, but I'm
pretty sure there's a fair number of gays in all the other areas of
sports as well.
Hey, we could start a Top 10 list of why male hockey players are more
effeminate than male figure skaters...
-- Hockey players are the ones who play with sticks
-- Hockey players hang out with other sweaty smelly guys and
figure skaters hang out with women in short skirts
-- At the respective sporting events, men yell out hockey players
names, and women yell out figure skaters names
(Please, no flames... it's all in fun, just trying to prove a point!) :)
Julie
Phil Talsky
ke...@dipl.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com wrote:
> If it's violence you appreciate, it takes a LOT more guts to even
attempt certain
> jumps than it does to go around and get into fights. I don't think most
> hockey players would have the balls to take the beating and fear it
takes to learn,
> say, a triple axel. If you want to see REAL crunching blows on the ice, check
> out any pairs skater who's ever dropped his partner from a height of 6-7 feet
> right on to her face.
Or, check out the knees of a figure skater who is learning new jumps
during the summer. When I was skating, I never wore shorts during the
summer because my knees were always so bruised. And, I know I'm not the
only one that suffered that way. It hurts like heck when you land a
double axel on your knees instead of your feet. :)
Phil
--
Please note that these opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinion of my employer.
btay
Janet Boone
>
>male figure skaters are fags!
>
>
Ah, a brilliant, well-reasoned and informed statement.
Judy Leedom Tyrer
James R. Mullin <jrmu...@pogonip.scs.unr.edu> wrote:
>
> Anyway, I could never figure out why someone would give up
>hockey to figure skate, no I didn't mean finger paint.
Perhaps they don't like hanging around with people who spit on the ice :-)
--
Judy Leedom Tyrer
"Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow
the talent to the dark place where it leads." Erica Jong
naomi pardue
> male figure skaters are fags!
If you are saying that they are gay, yes, some of them are. So are some
doctors, lawyers, construction workers, basketball players, runners,
ditch-diggers, authors, computer programmers ... So, just what was your point?
Naomi
Chooi Siew H.
> male figure skaters are fags!
You have a problem with gays? Or you just feel insecure about
yourself? And you feel threatened by them?
You need professional help.
--
Joseph Barretto
: If you are saying that they are gay, yes, some of them are. So are some
: doctors, lawyers, construction workers, basketball players, runners,
: ditch-diggers, authors, computer programmers ... So, just what was your point?
i think the point was that yes, some male figure skaters are gay, we all
know that...but what we might not know is that there are still in this
world despite eons of evolution and 'enlightenment' some people who are
close-minded enough to condemn feelings in others (and themselves) that
are as natural, and as beautiful, as any.
this planet needs a toleration implant. too many people are getting hurt.
just my $.02,
jj
who can't find a roommate because all the men here are stupid enough to
think that just because i'm gay the only thing on my mind is how to get
every guy, gay or straight, good looking or not, intelligent or not,
human or not, into bed. people...GET OVER IT!
Michiel Roesdi
whose name I forgot? In public you always hear those guys talking about
their girlfriends. Does that mean that no skater has a boyfriend.
Is Brian Boitano gay?
Jon Seydl
: Are there any openly gay male figure skaters other than the Canadian guy
: their girlfriends. Does that mean that no skater has a boyfriend.
: Is Brian Boitano gay?
I guess you missed some of rec.skate's recent angst on this topic--a big
hot button. Very few skaters, male or female, have come out and
identified themselves publicly as gay or lesbian. Many people seem to
want to keep their private lives just that--private. There is also the
*potential* problem with professional contracts and institutional support
and sponsorship, although I don't know of any skaters speaking directly
to this issue.
--
Jon Seydl jse...@sas.upenn.edu
George Robbins
Uh...you might want to make that "very few skaters currently taking
part in amateur or professional skating". According to reports there
were a lot gay skaters at the "Gay Games" last summer. There's also
an organization - The International Gay Figure Skating Union should
someone be looking for someone to help their cause 212-255-0559. I'd
suggest contacting them, or reviewing coverage of the Gay Games for
some perspective.
No, I'm not gay...
--
George Robbins - not working for, work: to be avoided at all costs...
but still emotionally attached to: uucp: ...!uunet!tharsis.com!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department domain: g...@tharsis.com
Julie Miller
...not that there's anything wrong with being gay...
-- Seinfeld
(Couldn't resist that one, too well set up! Also true.)
Julie
Anne Smith
SDU...@prodigy.com (Michiel Roesdi) writes:
> Is Brian Boitano gay?
What does that have to do with his skating ability?
josh mehlman
Just a question but wher you born stupid or did you have to
study. I have been figure skating ever since I was 7 and I can assure
you that I am not a homosexual.
Julie Miller
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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 19:58:48 GMT
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In article 00A7...@primenet.com, gl...@primenet.com (gl...@primenet.com) writes:
>In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.950423...@pogonip.scs.unr.edu> "James R. Mullin" <jrmu...@pogonip.scs.unr.edu> writes:
>>From: "James R. Mullin" <jrmu...@pogonip.scs.unr.edu>
>>Subject: Male figure-skaters
>>Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 23:57:36 -0700
>
>
>> If he's such a good skater, why didn't he play hockey? Now
>>that's beauty. The medium of ice, speed and grace with the capability to
>>deliver bone crushing checks yet agile enough to get out of the way.
>
>> Anyway, I could never figure out why someone would give up
>>hockey to figure skate, no I didn't mean finger paint.
>
>
SKATINGMOM
found my way over here thanks to the posting of the welcome to rec sprot
skating--glad to be aboard. Because of small minded people and gay
bashing in this sport I have seen 4 very promising male ice dancers
between the ages of 13 and 16 quit in the past year including my own son
Dan age 13 who truly loved skating, but got tired of being teased,
taunted, and gay bashed at school. Maybe usfsa can come up with an
answer--Elvis, Scott, and Philippe have certainly helped the image..the
other positive thing I am seeing is the simplicity of the men's costumes,
the attention to not using too much glitter, and the athleticism of the
programs we are seeing today. Gay or not, does not matter--what does
matter is that our sport be perceived as a sport, not as an excuse for
trashing someone's sexuality or accusing people of not revealing their
private lives, which is their privilige. skating mom in calif..louise
Robert Withrow
|> Because of small minded people and gay
|> bashing in this sport I have seen 4 very promising male ice dancers
|> between the ages of 13 and 16 quit in the past year including my own son
Maybe it's because I'm 6'4" and 220 lbs, but nobody has taunted
or teased me (to my face at least). I do wonder what will
happen to my son when he gets older (if he still skates freestyle).
Perhaps I should have him reherse ``O.K. wiseass; show me *your*
double lutz...!''
On the other hand, maybe he won't have to worry, cause, like
Elvis, he also studies Karate.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 598 4480, Fax: +1 617 598 4430 Net: wi...@rwwa.COM
R.W. Withrow Associates, 319 Lynnway Suite 201, Lynn MA 01901 USA
Kevin Anderson
>In article <3ou36d$h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, skati...@aol.com (SKATINGMOM) writes:
>> Because of small minded people and gay
>> bashing in this sport I have seen 4 very promising male ice dancers
>> between the ages of 13 and 16 quit in the past year including my own son
>Maybe it's because I'm 6'4" and 220 lbs, but nobody has taunted
>or teased me (to my face at least). I do wonder what will
>happen to my son when he gets older (if he still skates freestyle).
I think the best way to fight small minds is to become a good skater.
I've noticed that when boys see a male figure skater blowing people away
on the ice, they tend to forget about the gay thing and admire the skating.
I often have boys who would normally be teasing their peers come up to me and
make requests after seeing me do something. After seeing me skate, I don't
think the gay issue even pops into their minds. The irony is that most of
the boy hockey players who tease the figure skaters are figure skaters at heart
but too embarrased to put on a pair of figure skates. How many times have
you seen a kid in hockey skates trying to spin and jump? They all do!
In three years I have only been asked point blank once if I was gay. And
it wasn't by a kid. I don't think it was because he was predjudiced.
He just wanted to know in a matter-of-fact way. When I told him I was
straight he didn't seem to care one way or the other. I can see how that
sort of thing could really bother a kid, but I'm secure enough in myself
that I found it amusing rather than disturbing.
Well, since I've already broached the taboo gay subject, there's
one other point I wanted to make. Although I'm straight, I do run across
gay skaters from time to time. I'm friends with some of them. Believe
me, skating does not make one gay nor is it a gay sport. I would say
that the gay population in figure skating is the same as it is
in the general population (or any other sport for that matter). The only
generalization I would make is that I think gay skaters tend to rise
farther in the ranks, possibly because they are more driven than most.
They have to be to put up with all the crap they get.
Kevin
P.S. I was thinking about telling a couple of amusing stories of things
that have happened to me when I was one the ice, but I know it would
make some people uncomfortable and others think I was a homophobe just
for talking about it. I think it's a shame that you can't just talk
about stuff like that without being accused of something.
Judy Leedom Tyrer
Kevin Anderson <ke...@dipl.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com> wrote:
> ... The irony is that most of
>the boy hockey players who tease the figure skaters are figure skaters at heart
>but too embarrased to put on a pair of figure skates. How many times have
>you seen a kid in hockey skates trying to spin and jump? They all do!
Yes, and in my experience the reason they don't is because their parents
won't let them. Until the Dad's get over their own phobias, what hope do
the sons have? (I have yet to meet a Mom who wouldn't let her boy figure
skate so I am making what may be a sexist remark :-)
> .... I think gay skaters tend to rise
>farther in the ranks, possibly because they are more driven than most.
>They have to be to put up with all the crap they get.
Perhaps because they don't quit when getting harrassed. They know they'll
be harrassed regardless and quitting skating won't make a difference.
Now, if I can just teach this to my son. Hey, if they don't tease you
about skating, they'll just find something else. If you get upset, you'll
get teased. If you don't care and can laugh at yourself, people will tire
of it.
Jim Leous
>> In article <3pqllg$a...@butch.lmsc.lockheed.com>,
>> Kevin Anderson <ke...@dipl.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com> wrote:
>> > ... The irony is that most of
>> >the boy hockey players who tease the figure skaters are figure skaters
>> > at heart
>> >but too embarrased to put on a pair of figure skates. How many times have
>> >you seen a kid in hockey skates trying to spin and jump? They all do!
>> Yes, and in my experience the reason they don't is because their parents
>> won't let them. Until the Dad's get over their own phobias, what hope do
>> the sons have? (I have yet to meet a Mom who wouldn't let her boy figure
>> skate so I am making what may be a sexist remark :-)
I'm in a rather unique position that I coach a PeeWee Major (13 yrs
old) hockey team and my fiancee is a rather accomplished adult skater
and skating coach. In such a situation (with only one ice surface),
my guys are usually getting on/off the ice when her figure skaters are
getting off/on the ice. One particular day I was sitting in the
stands waiting for her to finish and about four of my hockey kids were
in the stands with me. One or two of them commented about a very
accomplished (and self-confident) young man (I think he was 16 or 17),
that he was probably gay. I asked, "Why do you think that? Is it
because he figure skates rather than playing hockey?" They responded
something to the effect that he was too much of a "wus" to play hockey
and "one check and he'd fall over." I said, "If you could catch him."
This surprised the guys, so I asked them to watch how fast the kid
skated between the blue lines. (This first became apparent to me when I
saw Victor Petrenkov sp? skate from floor level at the Pittsburgh
Civic Arena...the speed was just incredible, equal or faster than the
ice level views I've had of Paul Coffey and Alexander Mogilny.) I
asked the guys why if they are the same height as I am, I always kick
their butts in the wind sprints and speed drills even though I'm over
twice their age. I told them that they kid out there could probably
kick my butt. "Technique" is the answer. I have better technique
than they do, and the figure skating kid has better technique than I
do. I told them to pay attention.
Another story about these guys is that I had my fiancee come in to
give them a "Power Stroking" course when they were Squirts (10-11 yrs
old). Most of them learned something that day, and most of the
parents that watched were so impressed with some of the progress that
they asked her if you could teach a summer course on Power Skating.
Two or three of them got private lessons that summer.
A final thing that I'll say is that there is merit to doing both.
Some of the finest hockey players that I have skated with (mostly the
really good Canadians), also figure skated until they were about 12
yrs old. You learn good technique and stroking with the figure
skating that gets glossed over in about the first two practices with
youth hockey. Most youth hockey coaches see skating as a means to an
end and emphasize shooting, passing and checking. If a kid has good
fundamental skating technique, I can teach them to pass, shoot and
check in a matter of weeks.
[stuff deleted...]
>> Now, if I can just teach this to my son. Hey, if they don't tease you
>> about skating, they'll just find something else. If you get upset, you'll
>> get teased. If you don't care and can laugh at yourself, people will tire
>> of it.
I think this is the best advice that you can give him. If the child
has self-esteem (like my 16-year old friend at the rink), the insults
bounce off. His sense of accomplishment is the technique, discipline
and friendships that figure skating provides.
Jim
--
Jim Leous
Research Associate/UNIX Systems Administrator
Earth System Science Center
Penn State University
le...@essc.psu.edu
Margaret Burwell
>
> Yes, and in my experience the reason they don't is because their parents
> won't let them. Until the Dad's get over their own phobias, what hope do
> the sons have? (I have yet to meet a Mom who wouldn't let her boy figure
> skate so I am making what may be a sexist remark :-)
>
our figure skating club. I can't remember the number of men who
came in to register their sons and said "You're not going to teach
him any of that fancy skatin stuff, are you?" - mb
>
> Now, if I can just teach this to my son. Hey, if they don't tease you
> about skating, they'll just find something else. If you get upset, you'll
> get teased. If you don't care and can laugh at yourself, people will tire
> of it.
Someday he may appreciate the approach Mark McVean (a little known
Canadian skater of a few years ago) took with his hockey playing
friends. After taking a bit of ragging at school he said...
"Next time you finish a game and come off the ice, look around at
the people who share your dressing room. Then come see who shares
mine" - mb
Margaret Burwell
Louis Epstein
: Judy Leedom Tyrer (ju...@janus.la.locus.com) writes:
: >
: > Yes, and in my experience the reason they don't is because their parents
: > won't let them. Until the Dad's get over their own phobias, what hope do
: > the sons have? (I have yet to meet a Mom who wouldn't let her boy figure
: > skate so I am making what may be a sexist remark :-)
: >
: Ain't that the truth. I used to run the power skating program for
: our figure skating club. I can't remember the number of men who
: came in to register their sons and said "You're not going to teach
: him any of that fancy skatin stuff, are you?" - mb
The answer to this,perhaps,would be to look at the kid and say that
stuff would be way too hard for him.
: > Now, if I can just teach this to my son. Hey, if they don't tease you
: > about skating, they'll just find something else. If you get upset, you'll
: > get teased. If you don't care and can laugh at yourself, people will tire
: > of it.
: Someday he may appreciate the approach Mark McVean (a little known
: Canadian skater of a few years ago) took with his hockey playing
: friends. After taking a bit of ragging at school he said...
: "Next time you finish a game and come off the ice, look around at
: the people who share your dressing room. Then come see who shares
: mine" - mb
But if boys don't start learning before they're interested in girls,when
they're old enough they won't be good enough for the girls to be interested
in them,no?
Chris Malcolm
>Margaret Burwell (aj...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>: Judy Leedom Tyrer (ju...@janus.la.locus.com) writes:
>: > Yes, and in my experience the reason they don't is because their parents
>: > won't let them. Until the Dad's get over their own phobias, what hope do
>: > the sons have? (I have yet to meet a Mom who wouldn't let her boy figure
>: > skate so I am making what may be a sexist remark :-)
I took figure skating lessons as a little boy. My Dad was upset that I
was doing something feminine, but he was so primitive a macho male --
freaking out when I rode a girl's bicycle one day for example ("what
would people think if they saw you on a girl's bike?") -- that I paid no
attention to him on these issues.
>But if boys don't start learning before they're interested in girls,when
>they're old enough they won't be good enough for the girls to be interested
>in them,no?
This was before I was interested in girls. Trouble was, the girls were
interested in me. I found their giggling and their endless intriguing
about who got to partner me in dancing sessions so sickening that I gave
up skating entirely.
Now relearning skating as an adult, I've yet to meet a woman whose
interest in me depended on my being good at skating, and if I did, I
don't think the loss of her interest would bother me.
--
Chris Malcolm c...@uk.ac.ed.aifh +44 (0)131 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK DoD #205
"The mind reigns, but does not govern" Paul Valery
Kevin Anderson
>I took figure skating lessons as a little boy. My Dad was upset that I
>was doing something feminine, but he was so primitive a macho male --
>freaking out when I rode a girl's bicycle one day for example ("what
>would people think if they saw you on a girl's bike?") -- that I paid no
>attention to him on these issues.
When I was little my whole family, dad included, used to go ice skating
every friday night at the Ohio State U. ice rink. I was so young that
I never even knew about the gay stigma until after I had already quit.
When I started skating again as an adult, I was more worried about the
stigma of it being a little girls sport. As I quickly found out, my
fears were unfounded.
>This was before I was interested in girls. Trouble was, the girls were
>interested in me. I found their giggling and their endless intriguing
>about who got to partner me in dancing sessions so sickening that I gave
>up skating entirely.
When I was around 11 they used to bring a new girl to me about once a week
to try out. Talk about being in demand. At the time I hadn't discovered
girls. Talk about missing the boat! I used to hang around with oodles
of girls every day and all I wanted to do was typical play-in-the-dirt
kind of stuff with the one other guy there. Oh what I'd give to have even
a tenth of that kind of female attention now! Heck, I'd settle for
just 1 who could remember my name :-) The irony of life....
Kevin