PASHA ANSWERS QUESTIONS
PatClayP
Now that you all have talked about me here on the internet I wanted to give you
some more information to talk about and this information is the truth. I want
to talk to you about my relationship with Sash (Alexander Zuhlin). In the fall
of 1990 Sash gave me a call at my house in Russia and wanted me to come over
and go to a party with Maya and him. I said OK and went. When I got there
Sash met me at the door and said Maya didn't want to go the party. So we went.
At the party is when he started flirting with me in front of his friends. I
didn't like this and told him that we needed to talk. We then went into
another room and I told him that I was not interested in him because, he is
married. Sash told me that Maya had been sleeping around on him with one of
his closest friends. He said he was tired of it and had begun seeing other
people. Then Sash told me of his love affair with another married girl that
had just ended. (I respect this girl too much to give her name) Their affair
lasted a couple of months before it ended. Sash said he did not want to go
back to Maya because she has been cheating on him. Sash told me that he was
interested in me and that he wanted me to be his girlfriend. I asked him if he
was sure that he wasn't going to go back to Maya and he said he was sure and he
was also sure that he loved me. He said that he was really in love with me and
wanted to get a divorce and marry me. I was 19 at the time and lonely and fell
for him and all the words he said to me. I asked Sash if I could go talk to
Maya and find out if it is true that you are not together anymore. He said
that it would not be a good idea because, we are officially married and that
the public needs to see us together so we don't get bad reputation. We don't
want a bad reputation when we win the gold medal. He said you must trust me
that I am going to get a divorce and I will marry you, but it has to be a
secret for now because, if Maya see us together she will stop skating and we
won't win the gold medal. Like a little girl I believed him and we began a
secret love affair. In beginning of 1991 he moved into my apartment and I was
just like his wife. Then in Spring of 1992 we went on tour with Tom Collins.
It is here that he gave his wedding ring on necklace for me to wear around my
neck. He did this because I kept asking if we were going to get married. He
said, see its going to happen, we will get married and stop asking. He also
gave me an engagement ring and with these two rings I believed him that we
would get married. On tour Evgeny and I decided that we should change coaches
because Natalia Dubova wasn't making us work hard enough. Well, at the end of
the tour in Las Angeles I wore the necklace with Sash's ring around my neck out
to dinner at Wolf Gang Pucks. Maya saw me wearing this ring and that is when
she hit me and found out after two and a half years that we were dating each
other. I don't blame her at all for this. Anyway, we went back to Russia and
Dubova found out that we wanted to change coaches and that I was dating Sash.
Dubova and her husband broke into my apartment while I was a sleep and woke me
up and then started to beat me. They make my face bleed and broke one of my
ribs, I thought they even broke my tooth. I called the Police and they asked
if I wanted them arrested and I said no. I was so scared and confused I didn't
know what to do. I think they were lucky that I didn't arrest them. Sash told
me to stop skating and that he would take care of me and that I can move to
Lake Placid with him. This is when Evgeny and I stopped skating for three
months. Evgeny even got a new partner during this time her name was Navka.
Evgeny and Navka skated at the same rink as Sash and Maya and every night Sash
would tell me how great they looked together and what a great partnership they
made. This was making me feel very bad and I finally realized that this was
Sash's plan and that he wanted to get rid of his competition by taking
advantage of a little girl and playing all these mind games. He was never
going to marry me. I was like a battered woman and finally got the courage to
leave him. I called Evgeny and told him how stupid I was and that I wanted to
get back together. He wasn't sure for a week and then said yes. We then went
on and of course beat Sash and Maya.
Just a little more information for you I didn't go to Lake Placid with Sash,
Navka, Evgeny's old partner did and they are still dating today.
PASHA
If you have questions for Pasha email them to PatClayP@ AOL.com
Louis Epstein
PatClayP (patc...@aol.com) wrote:
: Now that you all have talked about me here on the internet I wanted to give you
It's so frustrating beecause in this medium we can't be sure this is
authentic.If this IS the famous Grischuk,it's very welcome to have her
view even if it gets pelted by virtual tomatoes...if it's a fake,
it's an annoyance we don't need.
Louis Epstein
SkateCentral Home Page http://www.put.com/Skate
Sharonilee
>Now that you all have talked about me here on the internet I wanted to give
>some more information to talk about and this information is the truth. I
>to talk to you about my relationship with Sash (Alexander Zuhlin).
Pretty good grammar for someone who doesn't know another English word for
"criminal", huh???
Shari
" The jumps were never supposed to mean so much. You need it all: the
lightness and the airiness, the music, the personality. You need the caressing
of the ice." ...Carol Heiss
KatyaBelle
uhhhh yeah........and I AM KATIA GORDEEVA!
(giggle)
This is a leetle beet on the funnnny side?
Crane
Damn! Where's my anti snake bite kit??????
PatClayP
This is 100% True. Pasha wants some truth to be talked about on the internet.
You have been talking about her for months now. She wanted the real story to
come out about Sash and help you understand where she has come from and explain
just a little more about where she has come from. Take a hard look at what she
has told you and maybe you will see why she has done what she has. She has
been literally beaten to get where she is today. This is not a smere campaign;
however, it is the truth. She is tired of being the one who is blamed for
breaking up a marrage which, was long over before she came into the picture.
Can you stop to think maybe she has been treated unfairly? Maybe it is her
fault for not coming out with it when it happen however; she was trying to
protect a lot of people. That is the kind of person she is. Now all is fair
game because, she is tired of be beaten up in these forums and the skating
world. She will answer all questions you send me. Unfortunately she does not
have a computer so I must relay them either by fax or phone. But rest assure
Pasha will respond truthfully and fully.
I just ask you take a minute and look at her answers and understand that they
are abreviated here because of the space provided but, if you want more details
she will be happy to answer you.
Clay Pereira
EMAIL Questions to patc...@aol.com
Sandra Loosemore
patc...@aol.com (PatClayP) writes:
> This is 100% True. [...]
> Clay Pereira
I think this one is probably for real, folks. Clay Pereira is Pasha's
agent at Diamond Sports, and it seems like it woul be quite an
elaborate troll indeed for anyone to bother impersonating *him*.
-Sandra
Jusandra
patc...@aol.com (PatClayP) writes:
>This is 100% True. Pasha wants some truth to be talked about on the
>internet.
>You have been talking about her for months now. She wanted the real story to
>come out about Sash and help you understand where she has come from and
>explain
>just a little more about where she has come from.
I'd rather hear her viewpoints on why she's trashing her competitors, frankly.
Jenny
Revjoelle
>I'd rather hear her viewpoints on why she's trashing her competitors, frankly.
That's true. Her love affairs are really none of our business and I'm sorry
she feels like she has to explain them (I personally feel there is no excuse
for adultary but it's none of my business and Pasha doesn't owe any
explanations to me)
But it would be interesting to hear what she has to say about the whole aunt at
the press conference deal is all about.
Joelle
"Life is an adventure...it's not meant to be easy and I learned its not
supposed to be fair. It's what you make of it, where you take it, how you deal
with it."
Scott Hamilton
Trudi Marrapodi
Know what I think?
I think Pasha has us right where she wants us.
Before the past few weeks, she was an Olympic gold medalist but not too
many people talked about her. Now, all of a sudden, she's almost all we
talk about. The BUZZ on her has increased about 500 percent. We no longer
argue as much (on TV or elsewhere) about Elvis, or Michelle vs. Tara...we
argue "Pasha: Devil or Angel?"
She must be smiling.
Trudi
"Freedom of speech does not provide protection from dissenting opinions"
_________
"Life's too short to do something you hate"--Brian Orser
_________
"If cynicism is unhealthy, then logically the opposite of cynicism -- gullibility -- is good for your health. For example, look at the non-cynical Heaven's Gate people. They are now living in perfect health in a spaceship behind a comet."--Scott Adams
________
To mail me, replace "forgetaboutit" with "frontiernet"
Fiona McQuarrie
So being dumped by her ex-boyfriend and beaten by her ex-coach is somehow
supposed to explain why she feels the need to bad-mouth other skaters and
deliberately undermine other skaters' performances? (the "aunt at the
press conference" business, the complaints of running too close to people
in warm-ups).
Sorry, doesn't work for me.
Cheers, Fiona
Sk8Maven
PatClayP wrote:
> This is 100% True. Pasha wants some truth to be talked about on the
> internet.
Don't you mean, she wants HERSELF to be talked about on the Internet?
And if it really is 100% true, she's even dumber than I thought she was.
Maven
Kaiju
Jusandra wrote:
>
> patc...@aol.com (PatClayP) writes:
>
> >This is 100% True. Pasha wants some truth to be talked about on the
> >internet.
> >come out about Sash and help you understand where she has come from and
> >explain
> >just a little more about where she has come from.
>
That's two of us. What is the motivation/necessity for doing so? It isn't
raising her popularity among many of us.
Kaiju <an apology or reasonable explanation would be appreciated>
Sarah Weinman
Trudi Marrapodi wrote:
> Know what I think?
>
> I think Pasha has us right where she wants us.
>
> Before the past few weeks, she was an Olympic gold medalist but not too
> many people talked about her. Now, all of a sudden, she's almost all we
> talk about. The BUZZ on her has increased about 500 percent. We no longer
> argue as much (on TV or elsewhere) about Elvis, or Michelle vs. Tara...we
> argue "Pasha: Devil or Angel?"
>
> She must be smiling.
I dunno about that. I mean yeah, her publicity has skyrocketed, but then again, so did (uh oh) Tonya Harding's after 1994. And I highly doubt Ms. Harding was smiling......
Sarah (who wishes Trudi a good move...where to? New city or just new house?)
Kaiju
Crane wrote:
>
> I don't know. I think this post is a very good troll. Congratulations.
> Certainly, I know for a fact several well known skaters
> peruse the net, but do not post for obvious reasons. It would seem
> rather bizarre for Pasha's agent to post on an NG. Why not a press
> conference. All the information in the post is common knowledge. This
> perhaps is a Pasha Borg at work. If it is Pasha's work it is extremely
> unusual from what I'm used to from a PR basis. This is not the
> forum for such statements. Very unusual.
What's more unusual is the direct move to respond to the gossip rather than
the real issues: Why all of the trash talk about other skaters and what's up
with that "aunt"?
There still hasn't been even the slightest reference to those. It would seem
to me that a real PR person would be rushing to do some damage control in
those areas. Otherwise, this gossip bit is still more of the same: trashing
others and taking no responsibility for her own actions and involvement.
Anyone see a pattern here?
Kaiju <who didn't even bother to read that soap opera rendition beyond the
first two lines...>
Lorrie Kim
This one strikes me as the real thing.
I think Dubova must be asked about the allegations of breaking and
entering and assault. These are serious. And while there's nothing to
prove or disprove them, nothing about that story struck me as obviously
false.
The account of the affair, especially Grischuk's youth and
ignorance about how to handle Zhulin's manipulation and terrifying lies,
strikes me as quite truthful. I've seen this too many times with too many
people to dismiss her account, especially her explanation that she simply
didn't know what to do. That sounds like the truth to me and not an
elaborate excuse.
It is true that Grischuk gets most of the flak for this affair,
with some but not all people adding, "What was Zhulin thinking?" I've met
enough men with deep sexual/emotional dysfunction to believe Grischuk's
story. What Zhulin was doing is called "acting out" and "dissociation"
and its consequences on less powerful people, such as the young and
inexperienced Grischuk, are devastating.
This doesn't excuse Grischuk picking on Baiul or having an aunt
who cannot be trusted to act in her best interest at press conferences.
But I think it would be foolish to dismiss this information about the
larger picture -- and I do think allegations of a broken rib from Dubova
and husband are larger than trash talk.
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
Tracy Johnson
On 5 Jan 1998 00:49:52 GMT, lor...@plover.com (Lorrie Kim) wrote:
> This one strikes me as the real thing.
> I think Dubova must be asked about the allegations of breaking and
>entering and assault. These are serious. And while there's nothing to
>prove or disprove them, nothing about that story struck me as obviously
>false. [snip]
> It is true that Grischuk gets most of the flak for this affair,
>with some but not all people adding, "What was Zhulin thinking?"
I have always held both of them equally responsible in my mind.
However, it is understandable to me that Grischuk would seem to be
"more guilty" than Zhulin because she was the "homewrecker". The third
party is generally looked upon as the "most guilty"; he/she is
generally the scapegoat.
>But I think it would be foolish to dismiss this information about the
>larger picture -- and I do think allegations of a broken rib from Dubova
>and husband are larger than trash talk.
I don't know about that at all. These *are* serious allegations,
you're right. But it strikes me as pretty obvious that Pasha isn't the
most stable individual in the world and I wouldn't be surprised if she
has blown some small incident completely out of proportion in her
mind, and has actually come to believe it herself.
I simply cannot *fathom* how the break-in and assault story could be
true. It's positively inconceivable to me. Dubova would have to be
pretty unstable herself to pull something like that, I think, but she
certainly seems to have her head screwed on straight to me. And I have
to wonder if these allegations are, in fact, true, why it is that
Pasha has never come forward before. And why now, on the internet -- a
venue which makes it hard to question her and to prove or disprove her
story?
I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time buying this. One can give Pasha
the benefit of the doubt in the Zhulin thing, certainly, but until
something further happens with these allegations, in a more
"legitimate" fashion, I wouldn't give any credence to the Dubova
story. After all, you can give Pasha the benefit of the doubt in that
matter *only* by implicitly condemning Dubova.
Tracy
Crane
Valerie
In article <7oupvm8...@shell2.shore.net>,
>> Clay Pereira
>
>I think this one is probably for real, folks. Clay Pereira is Pasha's
>agent at Diamond Sports, and it seems like it woul be quite an
>elaborate troll indeed for anyone to bother impersonating *him*.
Sandra,
I've never heard of Clay Pereira nor heard him speak. Have you? The
post purporting to be from him would seem to indicate that the poster's
English usage is quite poor. Any chance you'd know if that's
consistent? (No, this is not an attack, just a genuine question.) Also,
why would Clay have a screen name of patclayp? Who's Pat? Or is that
for "pat answers"? ;-)
I'd also like to point out that Grishuk referring to Zhulin as "Sash" is
likely to be nonsense. As it was explained to me, Ukrainians/Russians
prefer a two syllable nickname for close friends - more or less doesn't
*feel* right, somehow. My name is Valerie. This was too formal. Val
was not comfortable. Valya was suitable, but not a name he liked. (The
"he" in this case was my former dance partner, who I've mentioned in
previous posts. He is from Ukraine and, being an Alexander himself, is
referred to by close friends as Sasha. He also explained to me that it
was ok for me to call him Sasha, but I must refer to him as Alex when
speaking of him to people he didn't know, lest they pick up the habit of
calling him by his personal name. Complicated people.)
Sure, she could be consciously trying to be different, but Alex and his
friends were all very serious about this sort of thing. They are in her
age bracket and from her home country, so I tend to discount the post
claiming to be from her.
Just my .02...
Val
HILL JANET SWAN
>In article <7oupvm8...@shell2.shore.net>,
>>> This is 100% True. [...]
>>> Clay Pereira
>>
>>I think this one is probably for real, folks. Clay Pereira is Pasha's
>>agent at Diamond Sports, and it seems like it woul be quite an
>>elaborate troll indeed for anyone to bother impersonating *him*.
>
>I've never heard of Clay Pereira nor heard him speak. Have you? The
>post purporting to be from him would seem to indicate that the poster's
>English usage is quite poor. Any chance you'd know if that's
>consistent? (No, this is not an attack, just a genuine question.)
I have a similar curiosity. If a press agent wishes to represent his
client well, he ought to make certain that whatever he writes about
that client can be easily understood by the public that will "consume" the
publicity/information. And frankly, that message was quite difficult to
understand. It was also difficult to tell whether the message had "poor
English usage" of the sort that comes from a non-native speaker, or of the
sort that comes from ineffective use of language/writing skills by a
native speaker.
>I'd also like to point out that Grishuk referring to Zhulin as "Sash" is
>likely to be nonsense.
This too struck me as peculiar.
janet
--
Louis Epstein
Valerie (vst...@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <7oupvm8...@shell2.shore.net>,: >
: >> This is 100% True. [...]
: >> Clay Pereira
: >
: >I think this one is probably for real, folks. Clay Pereira is Pasha's
: >agent at Diamond Sports, and it seems like it woul be quite an
: >elaborate troll indeed for anyone to bother impersonating *him*.
:
: Sandra,
:
: I've never heard of Clay Pereira nor heard him speak. Have you? The
: English usage is quite poor. Any chance you'd know if that's
: for "pat answers"? ;-)
If he is transcribing what Grischuk wrote,he might not be
correcting her usages.
Lorrie Kim
In article <34b05bf2...@news.bctel.ca>,
Tracy Johnson <Tracy_...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>I have always held both of them equally responsible in my mind.
My point is that I don't think they were. In the case of an older
man in an established previous relationship, and an inexperienced
19-year-old woman, the power balance and the responsibility are not equal.
Zhulin was deceiving two people who were emotionally enmeshed with him.
Grischuk was not deceiving Zhulin, and she was not emotionally enmeshed
with Usova. They were not equally responsible.
>I simply cannot *fathom* how the break-in and assault story could be
>true. It's positively inconceivable to me. Dubova would have to be
>pretty unstable herself to pull something like that, I think, but she
>certainly seems to have her head screwed on straight to me.
Just because Pasha may be unstable doesn't mean that it is
impossible to commit crimes against her. Just because someone looks
normal on the outside doesn't mean they are incapable of getting out of
control and committing violence. Just because you can't believe the
allegations doesn't mean they should be dismissed without investigation.
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
dp...@vfnet.de
Well, I dunno. First I thought the story might be genuine and actually be
authorized by Pasha Grishuk herself, because it had a ring of truth (this
is just how life is, some men (sadly) do behave like that toward women,
it just may happen like that). Another reason for its being genuine was
that I couldn愒 come up with a good explanation of why somebody should
want to plant this story - it just was not sensational enough. Or was
this supposed to be a semi-scientific study on how many people are
willing to believe in a skater愀 authorship, as long as the story is
halfway credible?
On second thought, however, I became more doubtful. There are two
inconsistencies which strike me as weird. First, if "Sash" moved to her
appartment, how come his wife didn愒 find out about the affair but a year
later? Second: The day the csf started, there was an article on Grishuk
in the (respectable) Munich-based Newspaper "Sueddeutsche Zeitung". It
was clearly written as an amusing piece for people not terribly familiar
with figure skating, based on what the reporter had learnt about her and
from her in a news conference there. It said (among other things) that
Grishuk had said she finally wanted people to realize that she was a year
younger than the cv愀 made her. Grishuk was even reported to have
produced papers which (supposedly) proved that she was born in 1972, not
1971. Now I have no idea where the truth is and where the imagination
starts, but if at least the newspaper story is true - and again, I don愒
quite see why the reporter should make it up, it really is a respectable
paper - it clashes with what she allegedly says in the "Sash" story,
namely, that she was 19 in the fall of 1990.
I had even hoped for the story to be genuine, not because I惴 interested
in this age-old Zhulin affair, but because I would be thrilled to know
that she cares about the impression her behavior makes. It would be just
great if somebody succeeded in pointing out to her that harsh, unfair and
unjustified criticism of others is a surefire way to loose friends and
fans in the long run...
Christiane ( who still likes G & P and who still thinks there is a remote
possibility that the "Sash" story is genuine - but ....)
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Kkonas
>>>> This is 100% True. [...]
>>>> Clay Pereira
>>>
>>>I think this one is probably for real, folks. Clay Pereira is Pasha's
>>>agent at Diamond Sports, and it seems like it woul be quite an
>>>elaborate troll indeed for anyone to bother impersonating *him*.
>>
>>post purporting to be from him would seem to indicate that the poster's
>>English usage is quite poor. Any chance you'd know if that's
>>consistent? (No, this is not an attack, just a genuine question.)
>
>client well, he ought to make certain that whatever he writes about
>that client can be easily understood by the public that will "consume" the
>publicity/information. And frankly, that message was quite difficult to
>understand. It was also difficult to tell whether the message had "poor
>English usage" of the sort that comes from a non-native speaker, or of the
>sort that comes from ineffective use of language/writing skills by a
>native speaker.
>
>>I'd also like to point out that Grishuk referring to Zhulin as "Sash" is
>>likely to be nonsense.
>
>This too struck me as peculiar.
>
> janet
Clay Pereira is the brother of Kurt Pereira who is representing Pasha. And Maya
Usova and other close friends of Zhulin call him Sash. I know this because I
know Usova and Zhulin, not well, but enough to know what she and others call
him. As to the verasity of Pasha's story, I can't say.
Monysmom
Crane wrote:
(snippage)
>
>I don't know. I think this post is a very good troll. Congratulations.
>Certainly, I know for a fact several well known skaters
>peruse the net, but do not post for obvious reasons.
I know, it's off-topic, but which well known skaters have beem known to surf
the net and drop in here? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious!
Monysmom
Crane
this for obvious reasons, one of them being why I doubt this Pasha post.
I just read in another post by Kkonas that Kurt Perriera is the agent
for Pasha and Clay is his brother. As much as this is the "information
highway" this isn't the place or forum for such statements. The
way Clay responded goes completely against PR logic. There has been
no follow up that I have picked up on in the media. Pasha do a sound
bite for CNN sports do something to back this up! Not done. Kkonas
mentions that she is friendly with Usova and Zhulin and confirms they
call him Sash instead of Sasha etc. Well someone who is "friends"
with someone like U & Z wouldn't normally confirm this on the NG.
Furthermore, if Clay is Kurt's brother and Kurt is the agent, why
isn't Kurt ringing Clay's neck right about now for unloading this
information. It's really bizarre.
As a side note, people should be more careful of the way they talk
about some skaters. Think before you write because what you write
does get to them directly or indirectly. Some posters are rather
obnoxious because they feel they write under a mystery cloak.
Crane
dp...@vfnet.de wrote:
>
(snippers)
>later? Second: The day the csf started, there was an article on Grishuk
>in the (respectable) Munich-based Newspaper "Sueddeutsche Zeitung". It
>was clearly written as an amusing piece for people not terribly familiar
>with figure skating, based on what the reporter had learnt about her and
>from her in a news conference there. It said (among other things) that
>Grishuk had said she finally wanted people to realize that she was a year
>younger than the cv愀 made her. Grishuk was even reported to have
>produced papers which (supposedly) proved that she was born in 1972, not
>1971. Now I have no idea where the truth is and where the imagination
>starts, but if at least the newspaper story is true - and again, I don愒
>quite see why the reporter should make it up, it really is a respectable
>paper - it clashes with what she allegedly says in the "Sash" story,
>namely, that she was 19 in the fall of 1990.
>
I read the same thing about the age change in Steve Milton's article
I believe it was at Www.ctvistar.com . Therefore i agree with the
newspaper you read having the right information.
NNRathbun
>Janet quotes 7oupvm8...@shell2.shore.net> >>I'd also like to point out
that Grishuk referring to Zhulin as "Sash" is likely to be nonsense. <<
*******
For what it's worth, however, I remember noticing that Maya Usova referred to
him as "Sash" in the interview during the Challenge of Champions broadcast.
Nancy (NYC)
Marge Tischer
Sandra writes:
>I think this one is probably for real, folks. Clay Pereira is Pasha's
>agent at Diamond Sports, and it seems like it woul be quite an
>elaborate troll indeed for anyone to bother impersonating *him*.
-Sandra
Well, I don't think it would be such an elaborate troll, there are some
very devious and clever people on this newsgroup.
And, didn't G&P switch to William Morris agency last year? They had a
big signing at the William Morris offices on "Take Your Daughter to World
Day" where they autographed their Blades on Ice Cover.
So, who is really their agent now?
Marge
Marie L. Hughes
In article <68ptlv$btr$1...@picasso.op.net>, lor...@plover.com (Lorrie Kim)
wrote:
>In article <34b05bf2...@news.bctel.ca>,
>Tracy Johnson <Tracy_...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>I have always held both of them equally responsible in my mind.
>
> My point is that I don't think they were. In the case of an older
>man in an established previous relationship, and an inexperienced
>19-year-old woman, the power balance and the responsibility are not equal.
>Zhulin was deceiving two people who were emotionally enmeshed with him.
>Grischuk was not deceiving Zhulin, and she was not emotionally enmeshed
>with Usova. They were not equally responsible.
Exactly. Zhulin is the one who cheated and therefore the one who inflicted
the emotional pain on Maya -- Not Grischuk.
>Just because you can't believe the
>allegations doesn't mean they should be dismissed without investigation.
No, but I think there are other reasons to ignore this:
a) It's been posted on the internet (okay USENET for the purist) which in my
mind makes it suspect to begin with. I take everything I read here (or on
any other ng or web page) which is supposed to be a fact with a grain of
salt until backed up by a second (or third) corraboration. Anyone can 'be'
anyone on the 'net and anyone can say anything. This is particular true of
AOL with its 'multiple screen names per account.'
Spend some time over in the urban legend ng and you can see that this is
exactly how people get a good story going. And this one has all the
ingredients: posted by a supposed authority that can't be checked easily,
having a ring of truth (the details of the affair in particular), and then
some salacious details for spice (the beating) -- it's a classic recipe!
b) What happened to the stated rssif policy of not discussing the private
lives of skaters? Once again, as long as it doesn't involve a skater's
sexual preference or who is dating whom, and especially if it's not a
'beloved icon' skater, we jump right in! Yes, if this interesting story was
really put out by Pasha, she 'authorized' its release. But what about
Dubova, Zhulin and Usova? I doubt they want this stuff bandied about on
rssif. It's their private lives and should remain private is the motto I
always hear when the thread is "Is Skater X Gay?" or "Katia and Scott are in
Love". It should apply here as well.
c) How *could* we investigate these allegations? We can't! It all happened
years ago in another country with no documented evidence. All we can do is
engaged in a 'I believe it -- I don't' type of argument which probably
wouldn't even be particularly enlightening.
Marie (who learned the hard way not to trust *anything* on the 'net!)
----------------------------------------------
"You might as well laugh at yourself once in a while--everyone else does."
hug...@marie.org http://www.marie.org
marie_...@intuit.com http://www.quicken.com
Tracy Johnson
On 5 Jan 1998 06:13:19 GMT, lor...@plover.com (Lorrie Kim) wrote:
>In article <34b05bf2...@news.bctel.ca>,
>Tracy Johnson <Tracy_...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>I have always held both of them equally responsible in my mind.
>
> My point is that I don't think they were. In the case of an older
>man in an established previous relationship, and an inexperienced
>19-year-old woman, the power balance and the responsibility are not equal.
>Zhulin was deceiving two people who were emotionally enmeshed with him.
>Grischuk was not deceiving Zhulin, and she was not emotionally enmeshed
>with Usova. They were not equally responsible.
I see your point, but I guess I take a harder stance with Grischuk,
considering that she was fully aware that Zhulin was married. She may
not have been "emotionally enmeshed" with Usova, but she sure as hell
had to know she was doing something completely immoral.
>>I simply cannot *fathom* how the break-in and assault story could be
>>true. It's positively inconceivable to me. Dubova would have to be
>>pretty unstable herself to pull something like that, I think, but she
>>certainly seems to have her head screwed on straight to me.
>
> Just because Pasha may be unstable doesn't mean that it is
>impossible to commit crimes against her.
No, certainly not. That wasn't really my point. My point was that
Pasha seems unstable enough to create an incident like this out of
almost nothing in her own mind. That is something that an emotionally
unstable person could easily do.
>Just because someone looks
>normal on the outside doesn't mean they are incapable of getting out of
>control and committing violence.
Again, no. But the allegation is that Dubova and her husband broke
into Pasha's house in the middle of the night and beat her. This
implies premediation, and when someone who is otherwise normal "gets
out of control", it is usually spontaneous, in the heat of the moment.
But even if Dubova was capable of this, I don't see why it is better
to give Pasha the benefit of the doubt here, rather than Dubova.
>Just because you can't believe the
>allegations doesn't mean they should be dismissed without investigation.
I didn't say that. What I *did* say was that "until
something further happens with these allegations, in a more
'legitimate' fashion, I wouldn't give any credence to the Dubova
story". This is a terribly serious allegation, and like anything else
along these lines, I sure believe Dubova should be presumed innocent
until proven guilty. All we have here is the word is someone claiming
to be Pasha, on the *internet*. I agree with Marie that *where* these
allegations were made is of utmost importance in considering their
truthfulness.
Tracy
HILL JANET SWAN
Marie L. Hughes <usesig...@to.reply> wrote:
>c) How *could* we investigate these allegations? We can't! It all happened
>years ago in another country with no documented evidence. All we can do is
>engaged in a 'I believe it -- I don't' type of argument which probably
>wouldn't even be particularly enlightening.
For all the reasons you state .... I don't. And just think of the fun the
troll is having, watching us trying to behave like civilized people just
in case the identity is real. Let us take comfort in how well we are
succeeding at being civilized. If it entertains the troll, so be it.
janet
--
Louis Epstein
Crane (fra...@wchat.on.ca) wrote:
: mony...@aol.com (Monysmom) wrote:
: >Crane wrote:
: >
: >(snippage)
: >
: >>
: >>I don't know. I think this post is a very good troll. Congratulations.
: >>Certainly, I know for a fact several well known skaters
: >>peruse the net, but do not post for obvious reasons.
: >
: >
: >I know, it's off-topic, but which well known skaters have beem known to surf
: >the net and drop in here? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious!
: >
: >Monysmom
: >
: No reason to be sarcastic it's true. I can't say who I know to do
: this for obvious reasons, one of them being why I doubt this Pasha post.
: I just read in another post by Kkonas that Kurt Perriera is the agent
: for Pasha and Clay is his brother. As much as this is the "information
: highway" this isn't the place or forum for such statements. The
: way Clay responded goes completely against PR logic. There has been
: no follow up that I have picked up on in the media. Pasha do a sound
: bite for CNN sports do something to back this up! Not done. Kkonas
: mentions that she is friendly with Usova and Zhulin and confirms they
: call him Sash instead of Sasha etc. Well someone who is "friends"
: with someone like U & Z wouldn't normally confirm this on the NG.
Your reasoning is a little circular...stuff doesn't get posted to a
newsgroup because it doesn't get posted to a newsgroup?
Louis Epstein
Marie L. Hughes (usesig...@to.reply) wrote:
: In article <68ptlv$btr$1...@picasso.op.net>, lor...@plover.com (Lorrie Kim)
: wrote:
:
: >In article <34b05bf2...@news.bctel.ca>,
: >Tracy Johnson <Tracy_...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
: >
: >>I have always held both of them equally responsible in my mind.
: >
: > My point is that I don't think they were. In the case of an older
: >man in an established previous relationship, and an inexperienced
: >19-year-old woman, the power balance and the responsibility are not equal.
: >Zhulin was deceiving two people who were emotionally enmeshed with him.
: >Grischuk was not deceiving Zhulin, and she was not emotionally enmeshed
: >with Usova. They were not equally responsible.
: Exactly. Zhulin is the one who cheated and therefore the one who inflicted
: the emotional pain on Maya -- Not Grischuk.
: >Just because you can't believe the
: >allegations doesn't mean they should be dismissed without investigation.
: No, but I think there are other reasons to ignore this:
:
: a) It's been posted on the internet (okay USENET for the purist) which in my
A purist would tell you that the alt.* hierarchy is not part of USENET,
just part of Netnews...
: b) What happened to the stated rssif policy of not discussing the private
: lives of skaters? Once again, as long as it doesn't involve a skater's
: sexual preference or who is dating whom, and especially if it's not a
: 'beloved icon' skater, we jump right in! Yes, if this interesting story was
: really put out by Pasha, she 'authorized' its release. But what about
: Dubova, Zhulin and Usova? I doubt they want this stuff bandied about on
: rssif. It's their private lives and should remain private is the motto I
: always hear when the thread is "Is Skater X Gay?" or "Katia and Scott are in
: Love". It should apply here as well.
But it would be like Grischuk (reputedly) to differ.
PosterBoy
I think you have missed the point, Louis.
If everyone who posted to a newsgroup, posted to a newsgroup, then
everyone who didn't post to a newsgroup wouldn't be posting to a newsgroup.
Clear, now?
Happy New Year
Kkonas
>mony...@aol.com (Monysmom) wrote:
>>Crane wrote:
>>
>>(snippage)
>>
>>>
>>>I don't know. I think this post is a very good troll. Congratulations.
>>>Certainly, I know for a fact several well known skaters
>>>peruse the net, but do not post for obvious reasons.
>>
>>
>>I know, it's off-topic, but which well known skaters have beem known to surf
>>the net and drop in here? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious!
>>
>>Monysmom
>>
> No reason to be sarcastic it's true. I can't say who I know to do
>this for obvious reasons, one of them being why I doubt this Pasha post.
>I just read in another post by Kkonas that Kurt Perriera is the agent
>for Pasha and Clay is his brother. As much as this is the "information
>highway" this isn't the place or forum for such statements. The
>way Clay responded goes completely against PR logic. There has been
>no follow up that I have picked up on in the media. Pasha do a sound
>bite for CNN sports do something to back this up! Not done. Kkonas
>mentions that she is friendly with Usova and Zhulin and confirms they
>call him Sash instead of Sasha etc. Well someone who is "friends"
>with someone like U & Z wouldn't normally confirm this on the NG.
>isn't Kurt ringing Clay's neck right about now for unloading this
>information. It's really bizarre.
>
>As a side note, people should be more careful of the way they talk
>about some skaters. Think before you write because what you write
>does get to them directly or indirectly. Some posters are rather
>obnoxious because they feel they write under a mystery cloak.
>
>
>
>
>
I did not say I was "friends" with Usova and Zhulin. I said that I knew them,
not well, but well enough to know by what name she refers or calls Zhulin.I do
not know the intimate details of their lives and I certainly don't know
anything about Pasha's story. But I do go to many competitions and skating
parties and so I know many skaters casually. I fail to see why this is so
strange.
OperettaJK
In article <68scut$s0i$5...@newsbell.bellglobal.com>, Crane <fra...@wchat.on.ca>
writes:
What's wrong with this girl? First name, then age and someone said it's not
done for free publicity? Yeah, right. I live too close to Hollywood to buy
that.
Valerie
In article <68srhs$mtu$1...@castor.dnai.com>,
Marie L. Hughes <usesig...@to.reply> wrote:
>
>the emotional pain on Maya -- Not Grischuk.
>
Sorry. Grischuk had been a rinkmate, if not a friend of Maya's. She
knew exactly what she was doing - hurting Maya. Grischuk flaunted the
ring in public. If you've never had a "friend" go after your SO, count
yourself lucky and trust me on this one. They both hurt Maya.
Of course, however bad Grischuk was, Zhulin was worse. HE broke his
marriage vows. I'm not religious per se, but vows are a promise and
promises should be kept.
I just wish she'd stop all this nonsense and SKATE, now that I'm finally
seeing something worth watching in their skating. Thank goodness they
quit all that flailing around.
Val
KatyaBelle
Do any of us really care??
Jennifer Lyon
I think "Pasha's" note was written by a troll. Any die-hard fan of a
skater could gather information about that person and make the rest up.
Someone who really follows Pasha's career could even write a note faking
her actual speech patterns. It really wouldn't be that difficult.
If Ms. Grischuk wants to tell her story, why put it on the Internet
for free? Wouldn't some tabloid pay her for this story? "The Scandals of
Figure Skating" or whatever.
Besides, where's "Pasha" or her "agent" now? This person posted these
notes and then disappeared. If this person was for real, why doesn't he
or she respond to everyone's questions?
Just my two cents, anyhow.
MAH...@worldnet.att.net
In article ,
SAR...@prodigy.com (Marge Tischer) wrote:
> Well, I don't think it would be such an elaborate troll, there are some
> very devious and clever people on this newsgroup.
>
> And, didn't G&P switch to William Morris agency last year? They had a
> big signing at the William Morris offices on "Take Your Daughter to World
> Day" where they autographed their Blades on Ice Cover.
>
> So, who is really their agent now?
>
> Marge
Yes, I remember reading that Pasha and Platov signed with the William
Morris Agency. In fact, I think they were being represented by Michael
Carlisle (Oksana Baiul's agent). I think they have changed agent since
then, but one could ask : If Pasha was so upset about being confused with
Baiul, why whould she knowingly (on top of the fact that she copied
Baiul's hair style twice and twice skated to the same music as Baiul )
signed with the same agents as Baiul?
Take good care
Nirva
Jun Yan
>
> When Pash is interviewed she will confirm all that has been written here. I
> would like to change one thing though. Pasha was not beat up in Russia, she
> was beaten up in Lake Placid. After the TOC she and Sash spent two weeks in
> Lake Placid and three days before her departure date she was beaten up in her
> hotel. So, if you don't believe the story you can go get the police report or
> a report from the hotel. Evgeny will back up all accounts as well.
I hope you would understand our doubts, because there are many unreliable
information on the internet. If you are who you said you were, would you
mind answering these questions?
1. Was there any report on this incidence in any newspapers or magazine
that we can look up?
2. Was there police investigation and what was the result?
3. Why is Miss Gritchuk not reserving all this information for potential
biography, but rather giving it away on the internet? Don't you think
it's a bit unwise?
4. Is your brother still Miss Gritchuk's agent and does he approve of her
going on the usenet and saying everything?
regards,
jun
PatClayP
I am not a troll,
When Pash is interviewed she will confirm all that has been written here. I
would like to change one thing though. Pasha was not beat up in Russia, she
was beaten up in Lake Placid. After the TOC she and Sash spent two weeks in
Lake Placid and three days before her departure date she was beaten up in her
hotel. So, if you don't believe the story you can go get the police report or
a report from the hotel. Evgeny will back up all accounts as well.
Yes my brother Kirk represents Pasha and I am His Brother Clay. I met Pasha in
June of 96 and we have been best friends since. We mean a lot to each other
and support one another. Pasha asked me to defend her here and make certain
postings. Send email to Elizebeth Desalvo at Blade Magazine. She will verify
this is true.
Now, Back to the questions asked mainly her Aunt.
Pash Answers,
I got mad at my Aunt for what she said in the press conference. I had no idea
that she was going to do this. I think the reason she did is because she
couldn't stand the way Evgeny and I were getting horassed by the Candians.
"Our fans our asking questions, why can they fall and still be in first place."
I really didn't care but, my aunt did. I guess she figured she had to protect
me like she did in Russia when she and my mom were taking care of me after my
dad left when I was three.
My Aunt gave me nice looking close so I wouldn't feel bad that I was poor. She
help my mom with the bills, that kept me skating. She protected me up until
she moved to Germany when I was Sixteen. I then started to loose touch with
her because is was so expensive to call and could not visit. She never saw me
grow up to be independent and never saw me defend my self. So in her mind i am
still a little girl that she have to pertect. Yes it is true she was at worlds
last year however; I didn't spend much time with her because of my schedule.
And when I say I didn't see her for 3 years, I ment to say that I haven't spent
time or really talked to her since I've been in the United States. She hasn't
seen how much I have grown up.
This does not excuse what she did and I am sorry. My fans are asking why the
Canadians are beating me up. Why Don't they like you? Why are the Jeallous.
All I can do is say sorry and lets compete on the ice.
By the way, the stories about Pavel Bure are not true. It true I know him and
talk to him maybe once a month. It is Baiul that is in love with him and goes
to the hockey games. I only went one time last year. Also baiul and my ex
boyfriend are the only ones that no I no him.
Pasha
Please take these words as Pasha's I summarized what she told me on the phone
from Milan. She will talk to the press in more detail when asked at Europeans.
Pash does not back away from anthying, she faces it head on and that's why she
is winner.
PatClayP
You all have missread this Article.
PASHA was tired of comentators calling her 26 when she was twenty five. Her
Russian Passport says 1972. I guess I might have to get her birth certificate
for you.
Clay Pereira
PatClayP
Pasha statement was word for word from her. I didn't correct her English.
Please Read the new posting answering Questions.
Clay Pereira
PosterBoy
patc...@aol.com (PatClayP) writes: > I am not a troll,
>
> Please take these words as Pasha's I summarized what she told me on the phone
> from Milan. She will talk to the press in more detail when asked at Europeans.
> Pash does not back away from anthying, she faces it head on and that's why she
> is winner.
So, Clay....
Does this all mean that the ISU official was lying when he said
Pasha had acquired the chaperone pass for her aunt?
Or was Pasha lying?
Happy New Year
PatClayP
William Morris was courting PASHA and EVGENY: However, they never signed. Yes,
I transcribed Pasha Statement.
Revjoelle
>It is Baiul that is in love with him and goes
>to the hockey games.
Tacky tacky tacky.
Joelle
"Life is an adventure...it's not meant to be easy and I learned its not
supposed to be fair. It's what you make of it, where you take it, how you deal
with it."
Scott Hamilton
Fiona McQuarrie
: I got mad at my Aunt for what she said in the press conference. I had no idea
: that she was going to do this. I think the reason she did is because she
: couldn't stand the way Evgeny and I were getting horassed by the Candians.
Oh puhleeeze. What *specifically* have Bourne and Kraatz done to harass
"Pasha" and Platov? This is ridiculous.
: All I can do is say sorry and lets compete on the ice.
"Pasha" would do well to take her own advice. Perhaps then she would stop
with the uncalled for trash talk.
Cheers, Fiona
Sk8Maven
The more "PatClayP" posts, the more convinced I am that he/she is a
teenage (or younger) troll having fun at our expense. His/her command of
the English language, *especially* when claiming to speak for
him/herself rather than for "Pasha", is too far substandard to belong to
an educated adult.
Maven
Tracy McCaffrey
Re Trudi: The BUZZ on her has increased about 500 percent.
I think that was true. It's been quiet for about 2 weeks. I think "pasha
imposter" stuff going on and people has, generally, lost interest. I
know I have.
With all the exciting skating going on, who has time for the fake stuff?
Tracy