"Easy double Axel"
Locutus of Borg
===
Okay, Roz, I'm callin' you out. ;^)
Every blessed time I hear you say something about an easy double Axel, I think
of all the danged double Axels you've popped over your lengthy and entertaining
career.
Please, stop it. I almost prefer Dick Button's "treacherous forward edge..."
said with a note of danger in his voice.
Many thanks,
Peg
Jocelyn
>think
>of all the danged double Axels you've popped over your lengthy and
>entertaining career.
And in particular, wasn't that the jump Sumners botched at the 84 Olympics in
the SP?
Jocelyn
Carla Jenkins
Jocelyn
Yep. Sure 'nuff was.
Carla
Locutus of Borg
Boston Globe says Sumners two-footed the 2A in a required combination in the
SP, which helped put her in 5th for that phase and dropped her out of the lead.
I could swear Sumners popped a 2A at the end of the LP, too, but the BG says:
"She was only a few seconds from the gold medal. Just two more jumps - a triple
toe loop and a double axel. Hit them the way she'd been hitting everything else
for nearly four minutes, and Rosalynn Sumners was going to hear The Anthem last
night."
"But she couldn't do it - or couldn't bring herself to try. Sumners doubled the
triple and skipped the double, and gold turned to silver in a flash."
So I guess I remember wrong, if the article is correct, and I'm assuming it is.
But I rightly recall (sadly, as I became quite fond of her skating over time)
all the umpteen popped doubles Roz did as a pro.
Peg
Trudi Marrapodi
nonn...@aol.communique (Jocelyn) wrote:
Ahem...I believe it's only fair for me to step in here and provide the
Scott Hamilton Caveat.
"Easy double axel" has also been a favorite phrase of Scott's over the
years, and someone must have misunderstood him this same way too, because
at one point he actually clarified to the effect that he wasn't saying the
double axel is an "easy" jump, per se--he was saying that the skater in
question had PERFORMED it with ease.
Seeing as how Roz has probably picked up some of Scott's pet phrases from
having surely heard his commentary at some time or another over the years,
chances are she means the exact same thing.
--
Trudi
"You can't even fit a piece of *paper* between his legs, he's so tight there."
--Brian Boitano, on Anthony Liu
"Anyone can eat bad sushi."
--Ruth Lafter's all-purpose excuse for all unexpected figure skating results
Locutus of Borg
>
>In article <20010907155719...@mb-fc.aol.com>,
>nonn...@aol.communique (Jocelyn) wrote:
>
>> >Every blessed time I hear you say something about an easy double Axel, I
>> >think
>> >of all the danged double Axels you've popped over your lengthy and
>> >entertaining career.
>>
>> And in particular, wasn't that the jump Sumners botched at the 84 Olympics
>in
>> the SP?
>>
>> Jocelyn
>
>Ahem...I believe it's only fair for me to step in here and provide the
>Scott Hamilton Caveat.
>
>"Easy double axel" has also been a favorite phrase of Scott's over the
>years, and someone must have misunderstood him this same way too, because
>at one point he actually clarified to the effect that he wasn't saying the
>double axel is an "easy" jump, per se--he was saying that the skater in
>question had PERFORMED it with ease.
>
>Seeing as how Roz has probably picked up some of Scott's pet phrases from
>having surely heard his commentary at some time or another over the years,
>chances are she means the exact same thing.
I don't agree in the least. Roz talks about skaters "missing the easy double
Axel". That's not a misunderstand-erable statement, IMO.
Peg
lefty
Not to mention the TWO she popped in her LP there, also. :-)
BaleofAKS
>the
>triple and skipped the double, and gold turned to silver in a flash."
>
>So I guess I remember wrong, if the article is correct, and I'm assuming it
>is.
>But I rightly recall (sadly, as I became quite fond of her skating over time)
>all the umpteen popped doubles Roz did as a pro.
>
Peg, you are correct -- it's the article that is wrong. Roz popped her last
double Axel in the LP. I have the '84 Games on tape. :-)
LB
Bale...@AOL.com
michael farris
BaleofAKS wrote:
> Roz popped her last
> double Axel in the LP. I have the '84 Games on tape. :-)
>
Did she pop or single the one out of the Ina Bauer?
-michael farris
Trudi Marrapodi
pegl...@aol.compurgator (Locutus of Borg) wrote:
> Trudi:
[snip]
> >"Easy double axel" has also been a favorite phrase of Scott's over the
> >years, and someone must have misunderstood him this same way too, because
> >at one point he actually clarified to the effect that he wasn't saying the
> >double axel is an "easy" jump, per se--he was saying that the skater in
> >question had PERFORMED it with ease.
> >
> >Seeing as how Roz has probably picked up some of Scott's pet phrases from
> >having surely heard his commentary at some time or another over the years,
> >chances are she means the exact same thing.
>
> I don't agree in the least. Roz talks about skaters "missing the easy double
> Axel". That's not a misunderstand-erable statement, IMO.
>
> Peg
OK. But consider this: when Roz says a skater MISSED an "easy double
axel," perhaps she means "missed a *relatively* easy jump, in comparison
with the more difficult jumps in this program."
And perhaps, just as we don't restrict a poster's right to critique
skating here based on what that POSTER can or cannot do while wearing
skates on a piece of ice--and explicitly say so in the FAQ--it doesn't
make sense to knock Roz for calling a double axel "easy" simply because it
hasn't always been easy for HER, and wasn't always easy for HER in HER
day.
While I can see some of your point--I was equally baffled when Brian
Boitano called a pairs lift "easy" and appeared shocked that they missed
it, when it was obviously--to me anyway--a damn difficult lift to pull
off. But at the same time, I understand that he was likely saying that we
look at the elements like the jumps and throws as being the things that
separate one pair from another in a short program in terms of whether they
are able to DO them or not--we don't expect anyone at the top level to
fail to accomplish some kind of lift, just as we don't expect them to fail
to accomplish a death spiral at some level of quality or other (remember
Meno & Sand? Ouch!). But hey, if you choose to do a difficult lift, you
just might miss it.
Anyway, I'm not madly in love with Roz's commentary, but it does seem
unfair to me to gang-pile her for calling double axels "easy" when other
people miss them, on the basis of how many SHE personally missed in her
career. It just seems like a cheap, easy way to take potshots at her for
all the aspects of her commentary that people don't like. ("And while
we're at it, what's this crap about double axels being 'easy'?")
--
Trudi
"You can't even fit a piece of *paper* between his legs, he's so tight there."
--Brian Boitano, on Anthony Liu
"Anyone can eat bad sushi."
--Ruth Lafler's all-purpose excuse for all unexpected figure skating results
"Anyone can have pinkeye."
--Trudi's all-purpose excuse
Lorrie Kim
Trudi Marrapodi <tru...@clarityconnect.com> wrote:
>
>While I can see some of your point--I was equally baffled when Brian
>Boitano called a pairs lift "easy" and appeared shocked that they missed
>it, when it was obviously--to me anyway--a damn difficult lift to pull
>off.
I was wondering about that. What are the chances that a champion
singles skater might not realize that a one-handed lasso entry is
difficult? I thought perhaps he just didn't know -- he didn't seem to
know pair technical terms in general, including the term "lasso."
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
Jocelyn
>OK. But consider this: when Roz says a skater MISSED an "easy double
>axel," perhaps she means "missed a *relatively* easy jump, in comparison
>with the more difficult jumps in this program."
>
>And perhaps, just as we don't restrict a poster's right to critique
>skating here based on what that POSTER can or cannot do while wearing
>skates on a piece of ice--and explicitly say so in the FAQ--it doesn't
>make sense to knock Roz for calling a double axel "easy" simply because it
>hasn't always been easy for HER, and wasn't always easy for HER in HER
>day.
This has nothing to do with Sumners's ability, now or ever, to perform the
double axel - it has everything to do with her *experiences* with the jump, and
what it costs you to miss that "easy" jump. Dick Button was the first to LAND
the double axel, and to this day he calls it treacherous, slippery, etc.
I was surprised that Sumners could refer to the double axel as an "easy" jump,
when she herself has had mistakes with that aforementioned "easy" jump at the
height of her eligible career (and possibly didn't win the Oly gold because of
it), as well as in her professional career.
I would think that she of all people would understand that, even though it's
considered "easier" than a triple jump, the double axel is still a perilous
jump.
Jocelyn
Locutus of Borg
>Anyway, I'm not madly in love with Roz's commentary, but it does seem
>unfair to me to gang-pile her for calling double axels "easy" when other
>people miss them,
Gang pile is an interesting term for me sharing my personal opinion, and a
couple people agreeing.
Whatever.
Peg
Locutus of Borg
Thanks. That's what I wanted to say, but I'm too damned tired and impatient
right now to say it nicely.
Peg, who thinks yardwork, even on a coolish day in Texas, when your air
conditioner is on the blink and you can't cool down adequately (even with cold
showers), is spawn of the devil ;^)
Althealeo
perhaps she means "missed a *relatively* easy jump, in comparison with the more
difficult jumps in this program.">>
I agree. I thought it was pretty surprising that Nikodinov singled the
axel...has the d-axle traditionally caused her much grief?
Ros could have phrased her comments more precisely, and, like Trudi, there's
much that I complain about with Ros's commentating (less so now, granted) but .
. . I doubt she literally meant that the double axel was so easy that she could
run down and show Nikodinov how to do it.
-- Kate
Locutus of Borg
>. . I doubt she literally meant that the double axel was so easy that she
>could
>run down and show Nikodinov how to do it.
I sure never even slightly implied that.
Peg
Lorrie Kim
Althealeo <alth...@cs.com> wrote:
>
>I agree. I thought it was pretty surprising that Nikodinov singled the
>axel...has the d-axle traditionally caused her much grief?
Yes. Pre-Tcherkasskaia, I always had to clench my teeth for her
to get through the double axel in the SP. Sometimes she singled it and
ruined what was going to be a clean skate; sometimes she singled it in
tribute to some earlier jump error. Either way, ouch.
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
Althealeo
could run down and show Nikodinov how to do it.>>
>
>I sure never even slightly implied that.
>
And I didn't say that you did. But the debate seemed to be turning into a
discussion of the times Ros didn't land the double axle. The implication --
over the whole thread, not just or not even your post -- seemed to be that the
double axel wasn't an easy jump for Ros, so she shouldn't call it easy for
others.
IMO, no one should call the double axel easy, regardless of their hit rate --
it doesn't really make it worse, for me, that Ros has fallen on high-profile
double axel attempts. I just figured it was another (and pretty innocuous)
case of a commentator being imprecise -- she actually meant that the double
axe was relatively easy for Angela, so it was just a surprise that she singled
it.
-- Kate
Althealeo
through the double axel in the SP. Sometimes she singled it and ruined what
was going to be a clean skate; sometimes she singled it in
tribute to some earlier jump error. Either way, ouch.>>
Ah...see, I just used to clench my teeth before Nikodinov tried any jump. :)
Just kidding, sort of.
Okay, then what Ros should have done is shared that piece of wisdom with us.
Except she probably hasn't thought of it. I knew there was a reason I
nominated Lorrie as one of my commentators. :)
-- Kate
Roaz
>From: pegl...@aol.compurgator (Locutus of Borg)
>Date: 9/7/2001 5:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20010907205506...@mb-fz.aol.com>
I don't think she's out of line to say that. The double axel is an easier jump
than the triples they have to perform. It's *relatively* easy at this level of
skating. I didn't get the impression she meant anything other than that.
DesertRoaz
Equal Rights for Figure Skaters
Locutus of Borg
>>>. . I doubt she literally meant that the double axel was so easy that she
>could run down and show Nikodinov how to do it.>>
>
>>
>>I sure never even slightly implied that.
>And I didn't say that you did.
Implications led me to believe otherwise. See reference to implications, below:
> But the debate seemed to be turning into a
>discussion of the times Ros didn't land the double axle. The implication --
>over the whole thread, not just or not even your post -- seemed to be that
>the
>double axel wasn't an easy jump for Ros, so she shouldn't call it easy for
>others.
It was certainly ironic that she'd take others to task for something she
herself had much storied trouble with.
>IMO, no one should call the double axel easy, regardless of their hit rate --
So why not say so instead of making some remark about a wild concept not
introduced or hinted at in the thread at all? Color me confused.
>it doesn't really make it worse, for me, that Ros has fallen on high-profile
>double axel attempts. I just figured it was another (and pretty innocuous)
>case of a commentator being imprecise
Kind of like instances of posters being imprecise?
Peg
Locutus of Borg
>I don't think she's out of line to say that. The double axel is an easier
>jump
>than the triples they have to perform. It's *relatively* easy at this level
>of
>skating. I didn't get the impression she meant anything other than that.
I was pointing out the irony, Roaz. Sheesh. Do you not find it ironic, too,
considering Roz's history?
Peg
Roaz
>From: pegl...@aol.compurgator (Locutus of Borg)
>Message-id: <20010908192530...@ng-bd1.aol.com>
Well, I wasn't aware of Roz's history. I realize now you were pointing out the
irony (based on explanations in later threads) but I didn't know that from the
original post. Sowwy.
Althealeo
herself had much storied trouble with.>>
Which is an interesting thing, because commentators probalby face that irony
quite a bit -- they have to criticize people for stuff they can't do, or (in
the case of former eligible competitors) for stuff they may failed to do at
important moments.
I don't want to make a big deal of this, because it's certainly understandable
that people would immediately remember that Ros had trouble with her double
axel, during some very important occasions. But I just thought that she was
just doing her job -- she could have phrased her comment a bit better, but
missing the double axel, at least in the context of Nikodinov's recent
improvement and performance at Worlds (particularly in the short), was pretty
disasterous, and indicated that the "bad Angela" or the "old Angela" or however
people here phrase it was in control.
I guess I thought it was an appropriate comment. There's obviously a mix of
opinions about this among perfectly reasonable people.
>>IMO, no one should call the double axel easy, regardless of their hit rate>>
>So why not say so instead of making some remark about a wild concept not
introduced or hinted at in the thread at all? Color me confused.>>
I'm not sure what you mean by 'wild concept'. So color me confused as well.
:) If I misinterpreted the thread, it certainly wasn't intentional. And I
confess that I'm definitely getting confused at this point -- suffice to say I
didn't mean to make some remark about a wild concept, I merely meant to agree
with some of what Trudi said.
>>it doesn't really make it worse, for me, that Ros has fallen on high-profile
double axel attempts. I just figured it was another (and pretty innocuous)
case of a commentator being imprecise >>
>Kind of like instances of posters being imprecise?><
Yes. Which we've all (or most of us!) been guilty of. And I'm sure I'm being
guilty of it here, because I'm starting to lose track of who said what. Thank
goodness I don't have to worry about a worldwide audience. :) And we've
probably all been guilty of the equally innocuous (IMO) habit of noting, and
perhaps even pointing out, the imprecision.
It's not a big deal, and I don't particularly want to make it into one.
-- Kate
Carla Jenkins
axel...has the d-axle traditionally caused her much grief?>
Roz probably guessed something was very wrong at that point if Angela
missed a 2A.
Carla
Trudi Marrapodi
alth...@cs.com (Althealeo) wrote:
> >It was certainly ironic that she'd take others to task for something she
> herself had much storied trouble with.>>
>
> Which is an interesting thing, because commentators probalby face that irony
> quite a bit -- they have to criticize people for stuff they can't do, or (in
> the case of former eligible competitors) for stuff they may failed to do at
> important moments.
Precisely. I am sure it happens all the time. I mean, has Tracy Wilson
never said anything like this in the moments during her career (and
doubtless there have been many, both in the U.S. and Canada) when she has
had to speak of skaters failing on moves she never even learned how to do?
(I don't think Tracy has any extensive experience at any skating
discipline other than dance. I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to
recall. Also, I understand that CTV has in the past used Tracy to comment
on a whole lot of sports in which she has little or no experience--such as
equestrian events.)
It just seems to me as if Roz Sumners has become, in particular, a
commentator RSSIFers "love to hate"--and sometimes their potshots at her
commentary become more "personal" than they need to. And sorry, Peg, but
when people start itemizing he history of precisely how many double axels
she missed at the Olympics, it sounds like "gang-piling" to me, not just
expression of opinion. In fact, it sounds downright gleeful. (As if
they're saying "What right does a loser like her have to criticize other
skaters?")
I emphasize again: I say this not because I'm madly in love with Roz or
her commentary, but because there's something in me that hates to see a
double standard in "who gets picked on and who doesn't." And something in
this smacks of double standard, or at least an inconsistency of standards.
> I don't want to make a big deal of this, because it's certainly understandable
> that people would immediately remember that Ros had trouble with her double
> axel, during some very important occasions. But I just thought that she was
> just doing her job -- she could have phrased her comment a bit better, but
> missing the double axel, at least in the context of Nikodinov's recent
> improvement and performance at Worlds (particularly in the short), was pretty
> disasterous, and indicated that the "bad Angela" or the "old Angela" or
however
> people here phrase it was in control.
> I guess I thought it was an appropriate comment. There's obviously a mix of
> opinions about this among perfectly reasonable people.
I would agree with that.
> >>IMO, no one should call the double axel easy, regardless of their hit rate>>
>
> >So why not say so instead of making some remark about a wild concept not
> introduced or hinted at in the thread at all? Color me confused.>>
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by 'wild concept'. So color me confused as well.
> :) If I misinterpreted the thread, it certainly wasn't intentional. And I
> confess that I'm definitely getting confused at this point -- suffice to say I
> didn't mean to make some remark about a wild concept, I merely meant to agree
> with some of what Trudi said.
And I appreciate that, because I feel I'm in danger of looking WAY more
passionate about the whole issue than I really meant to be.
> >>it doesn't really make it worse, for me, that Ros has fallen on high-profile
> double axel attempts. I just figured it was another (and pretty innocuous)
> case of a commentator being imprecise >>
>
> >Kind of like instances of posters being imprecise?><
>
> Yes. Which we've all (or most of us!) been guilty of. And I'm sure I'm being
> guilty of it here, because I'm starting to lose track of who said what. Thank
> goodness I don't have to worry about a worldwide audience. :) And we've
> probably all been guilty of the equally innocuous (IMO) habit of noting, and
> perhaps even pointing out, the imprecision.
>
> It's not a big deal, and I don't particularly want to make it into one.
Me either. But sometimes one feels as if one is sort of being sucked into
this vortex.
--
Trudi
"You can't even fit a piece of *paper* between his legs, he's so tight there."
--Brian Boitano, on Anthony Liu
"Anyone can eat bad sushi."
--Ruth Lafler's all-purpose excuse for all unexpected figure skating results
"Anyone can have pinkeye."
--Trudi's all-purpose excuse
"I mean, leave the man one shred of dignity, for God's sake, and why not make it his feet?"
--dasbaby932, on why male skaters shouldn't have to wear matching boot covers
Locutus of Borg
>It just seems to me as if Roz Sumners has become, in particular, a
>commentator RSSIFers "love to hate"--and sometimes their potshots at her
>commentary become more "personal" than they need to.
This is even funnier. I'm probably one of the only people here who enjoys Roz
as a commentator. I don't come on here and defend her like a raving idiot
because I figure people have a right to vent about what ticks them off. So
lumping me in with the RozHaters is another bit of irony.
>And sorry, Peg...
Whatever. I shared my POV. Don't agree, fine, but don't imply I'm wrong because
I see the very real irony here and you don't care about the irony because of
myriads of other reasons. I'm well aware of all that. I wasn't addressing all
that.
The world continues to retate and revolve.
Peg
Trudi Marrapodi
pegl...@aol.compurgator (Locutus of Borg) wrote:
> Trudi:
> >It just seems to me as if Roz Sumners has become, in particular, a
> >commentator RSSIFers "love to hate"--and sometimes their potshots at her
> >commentary become more "personal" than they need to.
>
> This is even funnier. I'm probably one of the only people here who enjoys Roz
> as a commentator. I don't come on here and defend her like a raving idiot
> because I figure people have a right to vent about what ticks them off. So
> lumping me in with the RozHaters is another bit of irony.
I'm not trying to "lump you in with the RozHaters." I'm just trying to
tell you how this looks to me--why I did not understand why you defended
them.
> >And sorry, Peg...
>
> Whatever. I shared my POV. Don't agree, fine, but don't imply I'm wrong
because
> I see the very real irony here and you don't care about the irony because of
> myriads of other reasons. I'm well aware of all that. I wasn't addressing all
> that.
>
> The world continues to retate and revolve.
It sure does. I just think that there are greater ironies in life than
this one, and I see no particular reason for some people to beat Roz over
the head with this particular one.
--
Trudi
"When you sign your posts, it just leads to .sigs and other such nonsense. It's best not to travel down that road to ruin. :-)"
--EE
Locutus of Borg
>In article <20010909124745...@mb-bk.aol.com>,
>pegl...@aol.compurgator (Locutus of Borg) wrote:
>
>> Trudi:
>> >It just seems to me as if Roz Sumners has become, in particular, a
>> >commentator RSSIFers "love to hate"--and sometimes their potshots at her
>> >commentary become more "personal" than they need to.
>>
>> This is even funnier. I'm probably one of the only people here who enjoys
>Roz
>> as a commentator. I don't come on here and defend her like a raving idiot
>> because I figure people have a right to vent about what ticks them off. So
>> lumping me in with the RozHaters is another bit of irony.
>
>I'm not trying to "lump you in with the RozHaters."
Sure sounded that way in that post I quoted.
> I'm just trying to
>tell you how this looks to me--why I did not understand why you defended
>them.
I didn't defend anyone. Show me where I allegedly did.
>> >And sorry, Peg...
>>
>> Whatever. I shared my POV. Don't agree, fine, but don't imply I'm wrong
>because
>> I see the very real irony here and you don't care about the irony because
>of
>> myriads of other reasons. I'm well aware of all that. I wasn't addressing
>all
>> that.
>>
>> The world continues to retate and revolve.
>
>It sure does. I just think that there are greater ironies in life than
>this one, and I see no particular reason for some people to beat Roz over
>the head with this particular one.
I see no reason for you to share some of the things that tick you off, either,
but do I "beat you over the head" about it?
I don't get this gangpile and beating up on Roz crap. Where is that
characterization coming from? Reminds me of the poster who talked about
visciousness all the time. It's a pointlessly overthetop characterization of
posts. IMHBIO.
Does this mean any time you point out some irony, or talk about something that
ticks you off, that you characterize yourself as gangpiling - or whatever the
word was - or beating up? I just don't see that at all.
Peg
Jocelyn
>It just seems to me as if Roz Sumners has become, in particular, a
>commentator RSSIFers "love to hate"--and sometimes their potshots at her
>commentary become more "personal" than they need to. And sorry, Peg, but
>when people start itemizing he history of precisely how many double axels
>she missed at the Olympics, it sounds like "gang-piling" to me, not just
>expression of opinion. In fact, it sounds downright gleeful. (As if
>they're saying "What right does a loser like her have to criticize other
>skaters?")
Oh, please. I think you're reading far too much between the lines. I brought
up how I thought it was ironic that Sumners can label a jump that she has
personally had troubles with "easy", and mentioned the fact that in particular,
that was the jump she missed in the SP at the 84 Olympics. A few other posters
wondered if she also missed any in the LP at the Olympics, and others responded
that yes, she did.
I hardly think that quantifies a personal ng vendetta against her!
Jocelyn, who is fast developing a personal vendetta against Tracy Wilson for
her horrific pronunciations
Virginia Blalock
Borg) wrote:
>This is even funnier. I'm probably one of the only people here who enjoys Roz
>as a commentator. I don't come on here and defend her like a raving idiot
>because I figure people have a right to vent about what ticks them off. So
>lumping me in with the RozHaters is another bit of irony.
I actually thought Roz was pretty good this time around. I never once
yelled "Shut up, Roz!" and I usually do :) I think Roz is taking
comments to heart.
Trudi Marrapodi
of you do. So...that's life.
Smallovian Insider
But that's not what she was meaning when she talked about the "easy double
Axel" two days ago.
Peg
reply to p.egl...@aol.com [re move the obvious ext ra dots]
==
@>--\-Any request to delete this post is a forgery-/--<@
Skating is skating, not dance. Dance is wonderful, but different.