For those Michelle Kwan Haters, why do you hate her and what is your reasoning?
jky...@yahoo.com
is your reasoning? Because she couldn't get the Gold Medal and you
equate her as being a "failure"? What is it in your heart that you
hate about her? Do you envy her for at least she went for her dreams
many times and maybe you didn't? Do you feel jealous of her? What is
your reasoning?
Michelle has been a very classy Skater, so what's your reasoning?
Thanks.
Bob
do is watch her "Salome (Dance of the 7 Veils) program from (I think
1996) and her long program at the 1998 Nationals and they'll shut up.
Just another gossip
"Bob" <bobw...@fireworksland.com> wrote:
I've watched skating my whole life. I don't hate Michelle Kwan, and
right now find myself feeling sympathy for her. I think her pullout was
gracious and a very selfless thing to do. But she knew she had no chance
of winning that gold, and that's really what she was after, not another
Olympic skate.
That said, I've never been a fan. (Of the person, perhaps...she's always
seemed very kind with much class) Her skating leaves me cold. I know a
number of people here have said repeatedly they love her grace on ice,
and I just don't see it. When I think of beauty on ice, I think of
Sasha...and I do love watching her. I used to love watching Caryn Kadavy
for the same reason...just the sheer beauty of it.
I don't want to go into the details of why I've never really enjoyed
Michelle's skating. It's picky and would just sound mean spirited. She
did have a smile that would light up the ice. I was moved when she cried
after her performance last time...it showed me there really is passion
there. I just never really saw that in her skating.
On the other hand, Irina Slutskaya is like watching a moose skate. She
tries so hard (and is very athletic) to be graceful, but I'd see as much
grace if someone put a tutu on Bullwinkle and pushed him onto the ice.
Sorry.
barbara
I enjoyed some of Michelle's programs and would have been happy for her
to win the '98 Olympics, even though I preferred Tara's skating style.
However, her hoity-toity behavior at the '98 Olympics showed me a
different side of her which I didn't like. And the absolute refusal of
her fans to acknowledge or accept Tara's spectacular triumph was
ridiculous--although I must say that now in retrospect many of them have
acknowledged Tara's deserved Gold Medal.
barbara
Wow, I feel the same way about Kwan, but I have watched Irina skate
throughout her career and while she used to be very "mooselike," I feel
that the last few years--after coming back from real, not imaginary,
illness, she has attained a grace to almost match her athleticism. If
she wins Olympic Gold, imo it will be well deserved.
jky...@yahoo.com
she skates. Are we watching the same person? I guess Skating is a
very subjective matter to people. Not only does Michelle have the
jumps, but she combines that with beauty in her skating. Whatever, I
guess everyone sees different things.
Thanks.
Chelsea Christenson
news:invalidname-83BB...@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> But she knew she had no chance of winning that gold
Just like everyone "knew" that Sarah Hughes couldn't win gold after her
short program in 2002? Kwan had the difficulty and she's capable of the
execution. She had a reasonable shot at it.
Phoenix
@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com>, inval...@invalidname.com says...
I know nearly nothing about the technical aspects of skating, but I
watch every competition I can record, and I feel much the same about
Kwan. Yes, she is the queen of her feild, but she never lit the flame
for me. Her execution never had "fire and magic" and on a subjective
level I'd rather see a flawed and passionate performance then a perfect
technical performance to get good scores. I also found Kwan's movements
to be choppy, like she didn't feel the music or the motion, but knew
exactly how to cut her routines with a pair of scissors.
Irina Slutskaya can be a lumberjack on ice, but my god she throws
herself into it. And she is capable of perfectly stunning routines -
like her turn in Moscow (Grand Prix was it?) last fall. I was in tears
watching Irina.
bel
>
jky...@yahoo.com
Ice Skaters I've seen. Oksana Baiyul was one of the most artistic
Skaters I've seen. Kristy Yamaguchi was very elegant and incredibly
positive in her Skating, Midori Ito (though she won the Silver) was the
best Jumper and most exciting Ice Skater I've ever seen, Katarina Witt
was one of the most beautiful and a very aggressive and dominant Skater
I've ever seen. And Michelle had that beauty in her Skating and the
fact that she jumped incredibly with 7 or 8 Triples in her Program
which is absolutely incredible. The only thing she may have had
trouble in was her lack of the really difficult Triple-Triple
combination that Tara had and Sarah used. That was the only thing.
You guys must be seeing a different Ice Skater because you DON'T
WIN 5 World Titles and 9 National Titles with the Ice Skater you've
described. Either you people are negative or you think you know more
than the Judges. The results don't lie.
Anyway, take care.
jjenni...@yahoo.com
I don't think anyone hates Michelle or any other skater, for that
matter. Some people don't particularly care for Michelle's skating.
Some people disagreed with the decision to send her to Torino. Some
people don't find Michelle's public persona especially appealing. But
hate??? If you want to see hate on the Internet, do some googling and
you'll find far too many hate-filled websites run by political,
religious, and racial extremists who make anti-Kwan posters sound like
Mister Rogers.
bba...@earthlink.net
Finally, a poster who understands that some people just don't care for
Kwan as a skater or as a person or both. And, the rabid fans of Kwan
who refuse to let any criticism of her go by with calling the critical
poster names, have done her much more harm than her critics have. Thank
you, Jennifer, for expressing so well what I have been trying to say for
a long time. People who just don't care for Kwan have the right to say so.
dalairem
> jjenni...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I don't think anyone hates Michelle or any other skater, for that
> > matter. Some people don't particularly care for Michelle's skating.
> Finally, a poster who understands that some people just don't care for
> Kwan as a skater or as a person or both. And, the rabid fans of Kwan
> who refuse to let any criticism of her go by with calling the critical
> People who just don't care for Kwan have the right to say so.
And thank you both for inspiring me to decloak for a few minutes. I
always feel like I'll be bludgeoned every time I express my opinion on
Kwan (among other skaters). Like others, I've been watching her for
over a decade, and her performances consistently leave me cold. I
forget what she did almost immediately after she's finished. *shrug*
Just my perspective.
On another note, I rarely give a care about a skater's personality, so
to think I'm "jealous" of Kwan is a most ridiculous attack. It's not
hate. Apathy's more like it. That said, I have found her presumtuous
on occasion, and I'm among those who thinks she might have been more
thoughtful to duck out of these Olympics before the fact. I'm still
sorry her injury has returned with such a vengeance. I wouldn't wish
that on anyone.
*recloaks*
ant
You should feel free to post whatever opinions you have about any
skater. If watching Kwan does nothing for you then there's nothing
anyone can do about that, we like what we like and there's no criticism
because of it.
Many people have made criticisms of the way Kwan was named to Olympic
team.
These are all valid points. I don't think anyone would attack you for
posting those opinions since they're not malicious. Some people might
start a discourse as to why, some others might try to explain to you
why they do find michelle an emotional or artistic or whatever skater.
Since you don't care about skater's personalities and haven't presumed
to make attacks on Kwan's charater i don't think anyone is going to be
making any harsh comments towards you. The reason babs gets jumped on
is because she presumes to "know" what's going on in kwan's head,
presumes to "know" how she is feeling or makes statements about her
motivation for various actions as if they are fact when they are
personal things only kwan or her team/family could know. The most
malicious of these is claiming that all of her injries this season have
been faked.
Dissenting opinions about Kwan are fair enough, its the mean spirited
attacks that people around here dislike.
There are quite a lot of skaters i don't care for. I tend to choose to
not write about them or write about them in general terms rather than
go for character assasination - that looks like trolling which is why
babs gets accused of it all the time.
Ant
Beez
I have never hated Michelle. I find her to be a very pleasant and
gracious person, in fact, from what I've seen of her.
Her skating, however, has NEVER ONCE moved me. But for some reason
that kind of reaction bothers Kwan fans to the point of saying people
like myself "hate" her, which is ridiculous. I have always found her
skating to be somewhat stiff, a bit stilted, and overly calculated. I
have never understood the admiration for her spiral when she clearly
cheats the positioning of her free leg, and have always wondered why so
many people force themselves to be blind to that fact. You know you've
seen it; she holds her free leg at an awkward, off-center angle to
create greater extension, but it is NOT a straight line look required
of a perfect spiral. It is a known cheat in the dancing world, in
fact.
Her artistry to me has always appeared forced, like she's trying so
hard to uphold the image of an "artist" on ice. I easily see this in
comparison to other skaters who just seem to have a much more graceful,
natural flow and blending with the music. Sasha would be one. Nicole
Bobek was another who just always looked so exquisit on the ice.
Kristi Yamaguchi. Oksana. In comparison, I really don't feel
Michelle's "natural" artistry holds up.
I cannot count the number of performances she has stumbled through but
then blossomed in the last fifteen or ten seconds or so, and that
strong finish seems to make everyone forget they just saw a lackluster
performance. They stand up and cheer in the last few moments because
she technically landed her last jump without falling but then lets
loose out of RELIEF and sails through her final footwork and spins.
She is a stronger finisher than she is a full program strong skater, in
my opinion.
And everyone keeps bringing up, in retaliation to criticism of her
forcing Emily to be an alternate, that Michelle's first visit to the
Olympics was as an alternate to Nancy's bye. Now c'mon! She was 14
YEARS OLD and BRAND NEW to the senior amateur level world. That was
hardly the defining moment of just the start of her long career as an
amateur level skater.
And I do feel bad for this latest Olympic disappointment, but again,
please force yourself to face reality that she certainly has had MORE
than ample opportunity to obtain that gold medal. This would have been
her third attempt (not counting her first visit as an alternate), and
the fact is most skaters are lucky to make it to the Olympics to try
for gold ONCE.
Hate her as a person? Again, not at all! She seems pleasant and kind,
and I am sure will enjoy a lucrative and fulfilling professional
career. But overrated as a skater? You bet!
dalairem
much vitriol in defense of Kwan over these many years--against reasoned
criticsms and comments as well as trollish comments--I've chosen to
stay largely out of her yard even IRL. Still, the subject line of this
thread and its responses caught me in a rare right mood. :^)
dalairem
bba...@earthlink.net
Tzigaane
> And everyone keeps bringing up, in retaliation to criticism of her
> forcing Emily to be an alternate, that Michelle's first visit to the
> Olympics was as an alternate to Nancy's bye. Now c'mon! She was 14
> YEARS OLD and BRAND NEW to the senior amateur level world. That was
> hardly the defining moment of just the start of her long career as an
> amateur level skater.
I'm not at all sure what point you're trying to make, and as Emily has
only been at the sr. level one year before this season it's even less clear.
tzigaane
Chelsea Christenson
news:7QqIf.1608$UN....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Michelle took second place at her second (possibly third, but I think
second) senior nationals that year, which is how she got to be the
alternate. So not quite brand new to the senior level. What that has to do
with this year's situation, I'm not sure.
I am sure that Michelle didn't force anybody to be an alternate. It wasn't
her decision to make. All she could do was ask. If you don't like the
decision, blame the people who made it.
Beez
I was speaking specifically about people who keep bringing up
Michelle's alternate status in 1994. Michelle was FOURTEEN at the
time, extremely young and with a full career ahead of her; her skating
and body also looked extremely immature at that time. In fact, I
remember even thinking back then at that time (when no one knew who
Michelle was or what she would accomplish) that it was unfortunate that
they had such a young, inexperienced alternate. Heck, I even remember
the commentators at 94 Nationals saying Michelle showed a lot of
potential but just lacked the maturity necessary to represent the US on
a world and Olympic level. This post is not about Emily, or whether or
not she's a stronger alternate than Michelle was at that time; I'm
saying that it certainly was not tragic that Michelle didn't end up
competing in the 1994 Olympics; she had a LONG way to go in developing
her maturity and style at that point, and had plenty of time and
competitions ahead of her to do it.
Also, people seem to forget that Nancy was skating strongly and in top
form right up until the very week of Nationals. Michelle's strength
and performance ability has been in question since her fourth place
finish a year ago at World's, and she didn't even compete at all since
then, even this year. It was an entirely different scenario, giving
grown-woman performer Nancy a bye and making up-and-coming little-girl
Michelle an alternate, than this time around.
Two summarize my point: It has been presented by internet posters
ad-nauseum that Michell was "owed" a bye based on the 1994 situation,
but in reality that's like comparing apples and oranges.
Beez
specifically of the attitude of fans who act as though Michelle
deserved a bye based on her 1994 experience; I've read it over and over
and over. Since this post is about why do people "hate" Michelle, I'm
just illustrating that her fans can be so deluded that they use the
word "hate" to describe anyone who has the slightest criticism of
Kwan's skating (and again, as expected by these delusions I feel I must
say again before I'm lumped in as a "Kwan hater" by those who can't
read clearly, I LIKE KWAN, I just don't care for her skating.)
My "bye" comment was just to illustrate how fanatically Michelle fans
twist reality to justify putting her up on every single "she's owed
it!" pedestal possible.
And again, I DO like her, okay? I just don't prefer her skating.
(Wow, I've said that twice in this post and once earlier; I wonder how
soon someone will blast me by saying I hate Kwan anyway.)
Phyllis Steen
"Beez" <jod...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1139952538.1...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I was speaking specifically about people who keep bringing up
> Michelle's alternate status in 1994. Michelle was FOURTEEN at the
> time,
Thirteen, not fourteen.
--
"When in doubt grab your foot and pull it over your head." - Dick Button
--
Let the dog out to e-mail me.
jjenni...@yahoo.com
Beez wrote:
> I was speaking specifically about people who keep bringing up
> Michelle's alternate status in 1994. Michelle was FOURTEEN at the
> time, extremely young and with a full career ahead of her; her skating
> and body also looked extremely immature at that time.
I thought she was 13 in 1994. Or am I mistaken?
>In fact, I
> remember even thinking back then at that time (when no one knew who
> Michelle was or what she would accomplish) that it was unfortunate that
> they had such a young, inexperienced alternate. Heck, I even remember
> the commentators at 94 Nationals saying Michelle showed a lot of
> potential but just lacked the maturity necessary to represent the US on
> a world and Olympic level. This post is not about Emily, or whether or
> not she's a stronger alternate than Michelle was at that time; I'm
> saying that it certainly was not tragic that Michelle didn't end up
> competing in the 1994 Olympics; she had a LONG way to go in developing
> her maturity and style at that point, and had plenty of time and
> competitions ahead of her to do it.
>
> Also, people seem to forget that Nancy was skating strongly and in top
> form right up until the very week of Nationals. Michelle's strength
> and performance ability has been in question since her fourth place
> finish a year ago at World's, and she didn't even compete at all since
> then, even this year. It was an entirely different scenario, giving
> grown-woman performer Nancy a bye and making up-and-coming little-girl
> Michelle an alternate, than this time around.
>
> Two summarize my point: It has been presented by internet posters
> ad-nauseum that Michell was "owed" a bye based on the 1994 situation,
> but in reality that's like comparing apples and oranges.
I was already an Internet skating board junkie back in 1994, and at
that time there was no outrage over sending Nancy to the Olympics
instead of Kwan. As far as Tonya was concerned, there were some people
who thought she should have been kicked off the team. But this was
mainly out of sympathy for Nancy and not because anyone felt that Kwan
had been robbed of a chance to go to the Olympics. Kwan was seen as a
promising skater, but far too young and junior-ish even compared to
slightly older teens like Oksana Baiul, Lu Chen, and Tanja Szewszenko.
So for me, the whole "the USFSA owes Kwan a bye because of 1994"
argument smacks of revisionist history.
And yes, Nancy was healthy and skating well prior to the whack. In the
fall of 1993, she won a Grand Prix type competition that included
several of the ladies who had beaten her at Worlds the year before.
Kwan, OTOH, did not compete in the fall of 2005, unless you count that
SkateIdol thingy. To me, that makes a difference.
Rick
[snip]
>Finally, a poster who understands that some people just don't care for
>Kwan as a skater or as a person or both. And, the rabid fans of Kwan
>who refuse to let any criticism of her go by with calling the critical
>poster names, have done her much more harm than her critics have.
Just exactly who are these "rabid fans of Kwan?"
- Rick
Rick
<1139952909.6...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...
>I agree, she certainly had the right to ask for a bye. I was speaking
>specifically of the attitude of fans who act as though Michelle
>deserved a bye based on her 1994 experience; I've read it over and over
>and over.
It has been mentioned repeatedly, but I don't think anyone meant it as
anything more than just one factor in her favor, not a primary reason.
- Rick
Big Z
neither hate Michelle nor do they love her. this has much less to do
with
Michelle than it has to do with the fairness of the competitions and
their qualifying criteria.
I would concede that Michelle already goes down as one of the all time
greats of figure skating hence she had nothing to prove. Peyton
Manning is in a similar position; even if he never takes his team to a
Super Bowl; his dominating regular season performances will still say
something. so we've established that Michelle isn't a failure ... and
this has much less to do with what's in my heart than it has to do with
the need for a cold blooded analysis of the misguided politics of this
"sport."
in my mind Michelle going for her dreams would have been a Rocky like
scenario in which she actually competed at trials and hadn't considered
the "bye" scenario. it would have involved a herculean attempt at
rehabilitation of her various injuries and maybe risking going out
there while not necessarilhy being at full strength. IMO she would
have earned huge kudos from the type of sports fans who don't know an
axel from a sitspin.
I'd prefer remembering Michelle as the skater I see on the cover of
"Figure Skating Now" and in the montage of photos showing the various
successes in her career rather than as the skater who considered and
undoubtedly would have taken Sarah Hughe's sisters place in the games
w/o a 2nd thought about exploiting the "system." it is arrogant and
less than gracious to injure an up-and-coming skaters career for no
other reason than you "could." I also think it's wrong for the
sportwriters to write off Michelle or ridicule her making a run for it
in 2010. to me that's up to her; but I would also hate it if the
judges gave her the same type of calls that Jimmy Conners used to get
at the US Open in the twilight of his career ...
Tzigaane
Thanks for explaining because at least now I understand your point.
tzigaane
Tzigaane
Shouldn't be long now... :-)
tzigaane
ant
around here!
Ant
Beez
jjenni...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Beez wrote:
> > I was speaking specifically about people who keep bringing up
> > Michelle's alternate status in 1994. Michelle was FOURTEEN at the
> > time, extremely young and with a full career ahead of her; her skating
> > and body also looked extremely immature at that time.
>
> I thought she was 13 in 1994. Or am I mistaken?
>
I THOUGH it was 14, but if it was 13, as someone else also just pointed
out, that illustrates my point even further.
Beez
jjenni...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Beez wrote:
> > I was speaking specifically about people who keep bringing up
> > Michelle's alternate status in 1994. Michelle was FOURTEEN at the
> > time, extremely young and with a full career ahead of her; her skating
> > and body also looked extremely immature at that time.
>
> I thought she was 13 in 1994. Or am I mistaken?
>
I THOUGHT it was 14, but if it was 13, as someone else also just
Chelsea Christenson
news:1139974127....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> it is arrogant and
> less than gracious to injure an up-and-coming skaters career for no
> other reason than you "could."
But there is at least one other reason. It is undoubtedly to the benefit of
the US skating program for its skaters to place as highly as possible at the
Olympics. A healthy Kwan would be a medal contender, which is not something
one can expect of young Emily Hughes. (I don't want to hear about Sarah's
upset; she was a legitimate medal contender going in, unlike Emily. Who I
like, but is inexperienced.) So the US skating program is better off with a
healthy Kwan than a green Hughes.
Gonna Skate
Beez wrote:
> I
> have never understood the admiration for her spiral when she clearly
> cheats the positioning of her free leg, and have always wondered why so
> many people force themselves to be blind to that fact. You know you've
> seen it; she holds her free leg at an awkward, off-center angle to
> create greater extension, but it is NOT a straight line look required
> of a perfect spiral. It is a known cheat in the dancing world, in
> fact.
The skater-style arabesque used to really bother me too. I was a
dancer. Now I skate and I understand it better. There are physical
factors involved in skating that determine what is possible to do on
the ice. Ther is a toe pick, there is speed and momentum to consider,
there are edges to control, and all of this is extremely different from
doing a static arabesque, even in toe shoes.
IMO, Michelle's spiral position is much better than most of the skaters
because her chest is high compared to most skaters, her hips aren't as
open as many skaters, her free leg is straighter than most skaters, her
free leg is higher than most skaters, she doesn't need to pull her leg
up with her arms, and for me there is a very stretched and straight
look to the move. And more importantly to me, Michelle has solid,
flowing edges and a lot of speed into and out of the spiral. I think
that the only skater I've seen even approach this combination of
details is Bobek, and I think she did it first so I'm pretty sure
Michelle patterned her spiral after Nicole's.
Alissa Czisny's splits in her spiral positions is impressive, but her
hip and leg are at even more acute angles than Michelle's -- the hips
are completely open and her leg is lifted to the side -- which I think
she needs in order to keep her balance and sustain her nice deep edges.
Cohen gets her leg higher and keeps her hip more parallel to the ice
which is extremely pretty, but she has to drop her chest almost to he
knee to do that -- if I remember correctly that was also considered a
"cheat" in dancing -- and she sacrifices both edging and speed to
obtain that position. Irina has good speed and nice edging, but she
doesn't really attempt the arabesque any more because she has so much
more success with the Biellmann (I don't like that position much, but I
don't blame Irina for using it). Few other skaters have spirals worth
mentioning, though I'm not dismissing them.
I'm not sure you are correct when you say a straight-line look is
required for a perfect spiral. What is "required" is for the foot to be
over the hip in an arabesque or forward position or for the foot to be
over the head in a Biellmann or half-Biellmann position. That helps
determine the "level" of the spiral. The judges can add or subtract GOE
after the requirements have been determined, but based on what I've
seen from the protocols, they aren't overly concerned with what
arabesques are supposed to look like when done by dancers off the ice.
In the USFSA, a lower level test has an arabesque skated on the flats
and I generally see the kids do that in a somewhat more traditional
"closed hip" position. Once the spiral is required to find edges,
though (a higher test), the hips open so the skaters can control the
edges. Hips are also lifted when skaters perform edges with the leg
down. It has something to do with physics.
Bottom line, a spiral in the arabesque position (skating) is not a
arabesque (dancing). I know I've read this on rssif many, many times
before, so I appologize for wasting the bandwidth.
Rick
<1140035528.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>...
>
>Beez wrote:
>> I
>> have never understood the admiration for her spiral when she clearly
>> cheats the positioning of her free leg, and have always wondered why so
>> many people force themselves to be blind to that fact. You know you've
>> seen it; she holds her free leg at an awkward, off-center angle to
>> create greater extension, but it is NOT a straight line look required
>> of a perfect spiral. It is a known cheat in the dancing world, in
>> fact.
>
>The skater-style arabesque used to really bother me too.
>And more importantly to me, Michelle has solid,
>flowing edges and a lot of speed into and out of the spiral.
Thanks for the excellent explanation. The speed is one of the biggest
factors for her, which also allows her to hold it longer than most. This
becomes more obvious when you've seen more than thousand programs at club
competitions. Only a few skaters come close to Michelle..skaters like Lisa
Dannemiller..right, Chris?
I'm still a little unclear as to exactly what is meant by open and closed
hips. I know it's probably too much to ask you to finds some pictures, but
if you happen to come across any examples of each, that might help explain
it.
- Rick
Tzigaane
more stuff like this on here. Please go into detail any time at all.
tzigaane
Gonna Skate
> I'm still a little unclear as to exactly what is meant by open and closed
> hips. I know it's probably too much to ask you to finds some pictures, but
> if you happen to come across any examples of each, that might help explain
> it.
I'll try a written description first, then give some examples so you
can check for pictures yourself.
You can do an experiment on yourself (at your own risk!) to see if you
can feel the difference between open and closed hip positions. These
positions are important to understand, at least intuitively, for figure
skating because the skater often needs to have his/her free side*
(non-supporting foot, knee, hip, shoulders, head) facing in different
direction than his skating side. Also, for this I'm talking about
"position" and not "build" (people who are quite flexible in certain
directions are described as having "open" hips for "good turnout," but
that is something extra and a whole 'nother essay and not necessarily
required for skating).
There are simipler ways to describe this, but this one has a skating
application so I'll use it.
First, stand up straight, both feet facing forward, shoulders and head
facing the same direction as your hips and toes, looking straight
ahead. If you're doing a two-foot glide down the ice, this is roughly
the position. Essentially that is the neutral or "closed" hip possition
(though actually hips can be more closed than this).
Next (you may want to hold onto something stable for this part), keep
the rest of your body in the exact same position and turn your head
over one of your shoulders to look behind yourself. Turn your head as
far as it will go. Now let your shoulders turn in the same direction
and let your arm come around, too, but keep your hips, knees and feet
still. When you've twisted as far as you can go lift the foot on the
side that you've turned toward, bending that knee. If you're like me,
your hips will now turn a bit more and be more in line with your
shoulders and your lifted knee will point in the same direction as you
are looking and your lifted foot will be at an angle to your supporting
foot. If you're very new to this, you'll probably feel some strain on
the inside of your supporting leg, like in your knee area (BTW, that
isn't so good for your knee). Your hip position is now "open."
If you were gliding down the ice on skates in this "open" position and
then were to step down on your lifted foot, and lift the supporting
one, you would do a mohawk.
In a "closed hip" arabesque position both hips stay looking out over
the toes of the supporting foot. If there were a set of headlights
attached to the hips in the closed position, they'd point forward (or
more likely down at the floor as the leg is lifted higher). In an "open
hip" arabesque position, the non-supporting hip is both turned out
toward the free side and lifted higher than the supporting hip. If
there were headlights attached to the open hips they'd point off toward
the lifted leg's side.
Examples:
Jenny Kirk, a skater who famously had a ballet background, used to do a
more closed hip arabesque position in her spiral. Back then her spiral
didn't spiral much (it traveled in a pretty straight line). Then she
started adding more speed and edge, and her hip started to lift and she
got more "edgy." Early Kirk is about the most extreme example I can
think of for a skater in a closed-hip arabesque position, but I'm sure
there are others and betters.
But if we're just talking hips, Irina Slutskaya has a square or closed
position in her Biellmann spin -- both hips are pointing right down at
the ice directly at her skating foot. Compare this to her hip position
in the camel spin, which is more open (the headlights point at the
judges), but other skaters have a more open position in their camel,
and some of Irina's camels are done in a closed position for variety.
Shizuka Arakawa has a very "open" position in the second half of her
change of edge spiral. She is so open she is able to turn her head,
shoulders and arms (along with her hips) up toward the ceiling while
maintaining a nice consistant edge on the skating foot. This is an
extra "feature" under the NJS, and helps her earn a Level 4 for her
spiral. Shizuka has a very, very nice spiral, IMO.
The open or closed hip position is perhaps more easy to pick out in the
spins and spirals than it is when skaters are doing footwork. But hip
position is extremely important to footwork. Skaters, unlike dancers,
can't rely on the friction of the surface under them to "hold" the feet
in the "turned out" position. They have to use their muscles (just look
at Brian Boitano's rear end during his spread eagles to see this in
action). A certain amount of turnout (open hips) is involved in a
variety of skating moves, turns and steps.
Skaters with open hips (build) can do things like spread eagles and
lovely high-legged spirals (skater style, hips open, free hip lifted),
but they generally have more trouble "checking" their turns and jump
landings. Closed-hip skaters can have an easier time learning the axel,
but they may struggle and scrape through their mohawks. That's the
short version of the other essay.
* The "free side" is the one not touching the ice, meaning if you are
gliding on your right foot, your left side is "free." The lifted leg is
the "free leg" in a spiral. For a spiral the free leg must be lifted
over the hip for the position to count. Dancers are trained to lift
their free leg very high without opening or lifting their hips or
lowering their shoulders much. This takes a lot of strength and
training to achieve. Dancers may be tempted to "cheat" by either
lifting their hip (this gets them a few extra inches of loft) or
dropping their shoulders (this also gets them a few extra inches of
loft). Try it yourself in front of a mirror (at your own risk!). First
try to lift your *straight* leg straight behind yourself without
changing the position of your hips or shoulders or bending either knee;
point your toe (put your hand on your free hip to make sure it isn't
sneaking back or up). You'll probably be lucky to get your toe a few
inches off the ground and may give yourself a cramp in your rear end.
Enough? Enough.
zcar...@yahoo.com
Sasha is getting up there. For me, Tara Lipinski was not a graceful
skater. Maybe because she was so tiny. I never watched an entire
performance from her. No elegance or grace in her skating.
ptwin...@yahoo.com
Beez wrote:
> But overrated as a skater? You bet!
43 championships...overrated?
Funny? You bet!
If she could've physically been there, gold was easily within reach at
Turin.
ptwin...@yahoo.com
Those same weightless accusations could be lobbed at any skater...and
just about everyone who has ever seen Kwan skae would strongly
disagree.
Moved by Sasha? Hello? Sasha can't put two programs together back-to
back.
Its all purely subjective, except for the 43 chamopinships. You can't
really argue with that now can you?