Oleg Shliakhov: the other side of the story
Sarah Weinman
Phil Hersh has managed to come up with a very interesting take on the
whole Elena/Anton thing. He dug up Oleg Shliakhov and this is the
interview:
http://www.chicago.tribune.com/sports/othersports/article/0,1051,ART-2802,00.html
Sarah
Sk8Maven
Sorry, can't get it. The ChiTrib has messed around with its site again.
PLUS, anything that's over 24 hours old goes into the Archives, from
which non-AOL members have to pay to retrieve them. (AOL members can
access selected articles for a few MONTHS before they're relegated to
the Archives. Discrimination!!!)
Maven
Valencia da Silva
Sarah Weinman (wein...@netcom.ca) writes:
> Phil Hersh has managed to come up with a very interesting take on the
> whole Elena/Anton thing. He dug up Oleg Shliakhov and this is the
> interview:
> http://www.chicago.tribune.com/sports/othersports/article/0,1051,ART-2802,00.html
>
For those of us who can't access this site, would
it be possible for you to post the gist of the article?
Thanks in advance.
Albert H. Dobyns
Sarah Weinman wrote:
>
> Phil Hersh has managed to come up with a very interesting take on the
> whole Elena/Anton thing. He dug up Oleg Shliakhov and this is the
> interview:
> http://www.chicago.tribune.com/sports/othersports/article/0,1051,ART-2802,00.html
>
The stuff they presented about Oleg S. when Elena was his
partner was absolutely horrible!! I am beginning to think
his skate to her skull was no accident. They said he is in
Chicago now. Perhaps if he keeps traveling he'll meet Tonya
Harding. Sad as it is, she seems to have an interest in
such men.
--
Al
Sue W
Valencia da Silva wrote:
>
> Sarah Weinman (wein...@netcom.ca) writes:
> > Phil Hersh has managed to come up with a very interesting take on the
> > whole Elena/Anton thing. He dug up Oleg Shliakhov and this is the
> > interview:
> > http://www.chicago.tribune.com/sports/othersports/article/0,1051,ART-2802,00.html
> >
> it be possible for you to post the gist of the article?
> Thanks in advance.
Here it is. It's pretty long.
A TEAM, AN ACCIDENT,
A SPLIT . . . INTRIGUE
DOGS EUROPEAN
PAIRS TEAM
By Phil Hersh
Tribune Olympic Sports Writer
February 8, 1998
NAGANO, Japan -- This should be a
simple, heart-warming story about a
Russian pairs skater who could win an
Olympic gold medal barely two years
after a training accident left her
temporarily paralyzed and affected her
speaking ability for months.
It is a lot more complicated than that
because of the odd man out, the one
who is training in Evanston and
Addison while advertising on the
Internet for a new partner, the one
whose side of this story has not
previously been told.
The plot will sound like it came from a
Verdi opera, with its mix of love,
jealousy, rage, tragedy and torment. Its
ending remains unclear.
To the triumph over tragedy of Elena
Bereznaia is linked the misfortune of
Oleg Shliakov. It is a situation many
think Shliakov brought upon himself,
but it is sad nonetheless, for he lost
not only a lover but the love of his
sporting life, the chance to skate for an
Olympic medal.
While Bereznaia and her partner of
two seasons, Anton Sikharulidze,
begin Olympic pairs competition with
the short program Sunday night,
Shliakov will be in Chicago. His
coach, Maria Jezak-Athey, and her
husband have given Shliakov a place
to live in their home while he tries to
revive his career.
``I thought we had lived in our perfect
world, reaching for our dreams,''
Shliakov said, with the coach
interpreting. ``I could not understand
why it was her who had to pay for our
move to the big city (St. Petersburg),
why she was picked and why it was
me who did it and why all this was
happening.''
There seems little question about the
sincerity of Shliakov's words. He may
have prepared himself for this
interview, arranged in part to give
Shliakov a chance to answer charges
here and in a CBS profile of
Bereznaia and Sikharulidze that will
air Sunday, but his sentiments about
his former partner appeared neither
theatrical nor rehearsed.
Shliakov has been accused of
abusing Bereznaia, both physically
and psychologically, in the four
seasons they skated together for
Latvia. They placed eighth in the 1994
Olympics.
``He (Shliakov) would yell at her, hit
her and kick her,'' said Tamara
Moskvina, who coached Bereznaia
with both Shliakov and Sikharulidze.
``This was an accident waiting to
happen.''
Shliakov, 24, thinks it was the accident
that led to such impressions of him
being widely circulated.
``Our problems were not different from
those of other skaters, but they began
to be put in the spotlight after the
accident,'' Shliakov said. ``That is
when people began blaming me for
my not appropriate behavior in
practice.''
On one thing, both sides agree: what
happened in a Riga, Latvia, rink Jan.
9, 1996, was an accident. Bereznaia's
head trauma was so severe she has
little memory of the incident. Shliakov,
the only one with a vivid recall of the
terrifying events, was pained to
describe it two years later.
Oleg Shliakov's dream was ``that of
every skater--an Olympic medal.'' At
19, after skating with a couple of other
partners, he found in Bereznaia, then
14, the girl with whom he imagined
reaching the dream.
They began training together in
Moscow. He was a native Latvian,
while she came from the distant city of
Nevinnomyssk in the Russian
Caucasus. After two years of skating
together with unimpressive results,
Shliakov said they had so little
financial support there were times
when they had to share a single meal.
When they left Moscow to train in
Riga, she moved in with Shliakov and
his mother. They also fell in love.
``In our relationship on and off the ice,
there were many very happy moments
and many, many unhappy moments,''
he said.
After finishing seventh at the 1995
world championships, Shliakov felt
they needed only polish to challenge
for medals. He decided the one
person who could provide that was
Moskvina, who had trained the 1-2
pairs finishers at the 1992 Olympics
and the 1984 Olympic champions in
St. Petersburg.
``Before we went there, people
warned me there is the danger our
team would be broken up,'' Shliakov
said, hinting that Moskvina might have
sought such a split. ``I asked Elena,
and she said this was not possible. I
believed her, and I believed Tamara
Moskvina.''
Moskvina that even before the
accident, Bereznaia wanted to stop
skating with Shliakov because of a
temper he did his best to keep under
control.
``It was scary to be present at practice
because I expected anything could
happen at any time,'' Moskvina said.
``(Bereznaia) had many injuries from
his violence. I spent a lot of time telling
him how to behave. I sent him to a
psychologist. During our talks, he
would not remember why his temper
went crazy and regret it.''
Other skaters who saw the incidents
thought Shliakov needed more than a
talking-to. Some suggested they
should beat him up. Moskvina defused
that situation because she did not
want ``an international problem'' with
the Latvian Figure Skating Federation.
``I can say only there was a certain
relationship between us and just
between us,'' Shliakov said in
response to allegations he hit
Bereznaia. ``I cannot say I did anything
terrible to her. The things many people
were noticing were maybe not truly
what was happening.''
Moskvina presumed some of
Shliakov's anger came from romantic
problems. Bereznaia was beginning to
drift away from him and become
involved with Sikharulidze, who then
was skating in St. Petersburg with
another partner.
``The only thing I could do was face the
situation and hope our pair would
continue,'' Shliakov said. ``Truly,
however, I had very small hope for
that.''
In December 1995, after they had won
the Lalique Trophy event in Paris,
Bereznaia and Shliakov returned to
Riga to compete in the Latvian
championships and train by
themselves for the 1996 European
championships and Champions
Series Final. Moskvina remained in
St. Petersburg with her other pair.
Oksana Kazakova and Artur Dmitriev,
who also are competing in the 1998
Olympics.
Three days after the national
competition, Bereznaia and Shliakov
were practicing side-by-side camel
spins, a move in which each skater
has one leg extended horizontally from
the waist. When the spins are
performed close together, the way
Bereznaia and Shliakov did them,
there is a risk of one skater hitting the
other in the head with the blade or the
toe pick.
``At first, I felt I had hit her (with the
skate),'' Shliakov said. ``She fell down,
and my first thought was, `Are her
eyes OK?' There was no blood yet, so
I could see her eyes were OK.
``After a moment, I heard the
screaming, and the blood started
pouring down. I put her in my arms and
took her to the medical room at the
rink. I tried to call the hospital but my
hands were shaking, and I could not
do it.
``On the way to the hospital, I asked
her what her name was, and when she
could not tell me that, I was very
worried. It was very difficult for me to
watch all this. It was terrible.''
The toe pick, used to dig into the ice
for jump takeoffs, had penetrated
Bereznaia's skull, damaging motor
and speech areas in the brain. Part of
her skull was removed temporarily to
clean the area near the wound.
``It made me feel a lot better when I
saw the quality of care she was
getting,'' Shliakov said, ``but I was not
sure at first whether she would live or
be paralyzed the rest of her life.''
After three weeks in the hospital,
doctors said Bereznaia could leave,
even though her speech still was
almost unintelligible. Shliakov said he
and his mother offered to take care of
Bereznaia but her mother, who had
come from Nevinnomyssk, did not
want that. It was decided he should
bring her to a Riga hotel.
``When we arrived, all that was asked
of me was, `How much was the train
ticket?' '' Shliakov said. ``I know
why--Anton was there.''
Sikharulidze had been sent by
Moskvina to bring Bereznaia back to
St. Petersburg. Within a few hours of
the arrival at the hotel, they were on a
train out of Latvia. It has been implied
the quick departure was something of
an escape, that Shliakov had been
controlling Bereznaia's moves in the
past and would try to do so again.
``There is no sense to ask that
question,'' Shliakov said. ``I could see
in Elena's eyes (at the hotel) that I was
no longer her partner.''
Said Bereznaia: ``We had quarreled.''
Even so, Shliakov said he returned to
the hotel later to see how Bereznaia
was doing, only to be told she had left
for the train station. He went there as
well and missed her again.
At this year's Cup of Russia event in
St. Petersburg, the red-haired
Bereznaia was a striking 5-foot,
90-pound figure in a floor-length black
mink coat. That is how much life has
changed in barely a year for the
20-year-old daughter of an
unemployed factory worker and a
secretary. She sends money home to
them.
``Everything changed--my partner, my
country, my home,'' Bereznaia said. ``It
is a new life. But with this life, it is very
good, and I am very happy.''
Bereznaia and Sikharulidze were an
immediate success as a pair. Last
season, their first together, they were
third at the European championships
and third after the short program at
worlds before a total collapse in the
long program dropped them to ninth.
This year, they won both the Lalique
Trophy and Champions Series Final
with lyrical skating marked by
tremendous speed, by twists in which
she seems to float heavenward and by
consistency on the more difficult
elements, pairs and throws.
``They fly over the ice,'' said Ekaterina
Gordeeva, two-time Olympic pairs
champion. ``It seems they don't touch
the ice at all. They're so soft you can't
hear their skates at all.
``They definitely look like the best
team. Every single element they do
has such a quality that no one else can
do.''
There is still a considerable scar on
the left side of Bereznaia's head,
above the ear. Her speech impairment
was corrected by therapy.
``I feel normal,'' she said after winning
the Champions Series Final six weeks
ago in Munich.
When she returned to training, five
months after the accident, it took her
less time than it did Sikharulidze to
forget the past. ``Only at the
beginning,'' Bereznaia said, was she
afraid to skate.
``When we started, it was very hard for
me,'' Sikharulidze said. ``Every time I
did a lift, I was thinking about if I fall,
that this would be a big problem. I
think Elena helped me with this. I could
feel she wasn't thinking about it.''
The off-ice relationship between
Bereznaia and Sikharulidze has
cooled to where they are, in his words,
``very good friends.'' Shliakov said he
has a new girlfriend in Russia ``whom I
love very much.''
Last year, Shliakov went to the world
championships with a new partner,
Jelena Sirokhvatova. They finished
20th.
``I did not hope for a high result,'' he
said. ``I had to show to myself and
others I am alive, and I am skating.''
He will be training by himself, in
anonymity, while hundreds of millions
of people worldwide watch Bereznaia
and Sikharulidze skate Sunday and
Tuesday at the White Ring arena in
Nagano. They are, in most eyes, the
favorites for the gold medal, a gold
medal that might have been
Shliakov's.
``I never thought of it that way,''
Shliakov said. ``I will be watching the
Olympic Games on television, and I
will be cheering for Elena. I hope she
will be standing on the podium with the
gold medal, and I will be very happy for
her.
``I know the road to that is very long
and very difficult. She finished it
without me--well, that's OK. The
important thing is she got there.''
--
... Sue :-)
If your Bible is in good shape ...
Your life probably isn't!
E-Mail - mailto:s...@inconnect.com
Visit "Sue's Plain Vanilla HomePage"
http://www.inconnect.com/~sue/
Marcusfam1
Oleg in Chicago looking for a partner ?! He's never going to find one with that
temper , esp. the beatings and going thru seven partners in five years . What a
jerk ! He should have taken up hockey .
Harriet
Che
On Mon, 09 Feb 1998 04:49:58 -0800, Sue W <s...@inconnect.com> wrote:
> ``I can say only there was a certain
> relationship between us and just
> between us,'' Shliakov said in
> response to allegations he hit
> Bereznaia. ``I cannot say I did anything
> terrible to her. The things many people
> were noticing were maybe not truly
> what was happening.''
He seems not to accept any responsibility for what he did. Suffice it
to say he's been thru much more than an ordinary number of partners.
And I doubt now that he could get any sane woman to chance him after
what CBS broadcast. Another victim of the "must-win" psychology.
Marlene A Koenig
Oleg is in Chicago looking for a new partner
--
and author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
published by Rosvall Royal Books
Publisher of Royal Book News, the only newsletter for and about
Royal Books
Mary E Tyler
i looked for the article which was mentioned in the original post for
this thread. the article is no longer posted on the web site; however
the search engine will turn it up, i just won't cough up the $1.95 which
they want to for "reprint."
boo and hiss on the Chi-trib for taking the article off before anyone
might have seen it.
dejah
--
remove the nospam from the address to reply
"I hope I make myself obscure! I have need of obscurity now."- Robert
Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
A heated exchange of unread mail would be welcomed by all... Christensen
NLGHAtc
>He seems not to accept any responsibility for what he did. Suffice it
>to say he's been thru much more than an ordinary number of partners.
>And I doubt now that he could get any sane woman to chance him after
>what CBS broadcast. Another victim of the "must-win" psychology.
>
>
hardly the New York Times reporting. This is the entertainment division of CBS
doing a soft-focus warm and fuzzy piece on how lovely Elena fought her way to
get to the Olympics. I'd hardly call that unbiased and fair reporting. Not to
knock Elena and Anton (who I happen to adore), but CBS was hardly showing both
sides of the story.
TC
JennWa1234
I had heard about this long before the Olympics and CBS coverage so I don't
think it is just hype for Jelena and partner.
Jennifer
Revjoelle
>One thing though. You have to take that piece with a grain of salt. This is
hardly the New York Times reporting.
We have Elena's word that he hit her. Why would she make that up? We have the
coach (sorry not going to spell that one) saying he hit her. Why would she
lie? All for a good story for her pair? A story that doesn't make her look
real good because she was impotent? And we have Anton's word. Three people
lying?
And Oleg? No denial. Just that it's private. A typical abuser response.
Nope. They may have overplayed the melodrama but I think this is a story we
can believe.
Joelle
"Life is an adventure...it's not meant to be easy and I learned its not
supposed to be fair. It's what you make of it, where you take it, how you deal
with it."
Scott Hamilton
Chelsea Christenson
Albert H. Dobyns wrote:
> I am beginning to think his skate to her skull was no accident.
I'd find it rather surprising if it were. It's not the sort of thing
you can really plan, with two people spinning on the ice like that. Nor
does it seem consistent with the behavior described. He sounds like he
acts out of anger or frustration, not by plotting.
Kaiju
NLGHAtc wrote:
> One thing though. You have to take that piece with a grain of salt. This is
> hardly the New York Times reporting. This is the entertainment division of CBS
> doing a soft-focus warm and fuzzy piece on how lovely Elena fought her way to
> get to the Olympics. I'd hardly call that unbiased and fair reporting. Not to
> knock Elena and Anton (who I happen to adore), but CBS was hardly showing both
> sides of the story.
After reading the Chi-Trib article which was from Shliakhov's perspective, he
still didn't come out any better.
I wish him luck in finding a new partner. Should he find one, I personally
offer to give her karate lessons pro bono.
Kaiju
Marlene A Koenig
Please don't publish full text articles without getting
permission from the copyright holder - in this case, the
Chicago Tribune -- they own Phil Hersch's article --
New organizations, newspapers and wire services are all
against reposting material in newsgroups -- or making more than
one copy of an article -- it is called copyright violation
and it's also stealing -- although many people do not understand
this -- what is permissable is to paraphrase or quote in bits
and pieces - but reposting full text is a violation.
I've worked in the news business for many years, I am also
a published author who successfully won a plaigarism case -
and one of my husband's best friends is a copyright lawyer
who spends a lot of time in court winning cases for reuters
and other news organizations in protecting their copyright --
and yes, they do sue ISPs and the posters and yes, they always
win
John & Pat Colpitts
Revjoelle wrote in message
<19980209190...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>>One thing though. You have to take that piece with a grain of salt. This
is
>hardly the New York Times reporting.
>
>We have Elena's word that he hit her. Why would she make that up? We have
the
>coach (sorry not going to spell that one) saying he hit her. Why would she
>lie? All for a good story for her pair? A story that doesn't make her
look
>real good because she was impotent? And we have Anton's word. Three
people
>lying?
>And Oleg? No denial. Just that it's private. A typical abuser response.
>
>Nope. They may have overplayed the melodrama but I think this is a story
we
>can believe.
Barbara Underhill, the CTV fs commentator, first mentioned something about
this abusive relationship when they were still skating together. And this
is
what she based her opinion on - how he treated her on the ice. I forget
what
competition it was - Elena fell, and he didn't slow down or look back -
nothing.
When the program was finished, he barely acknowledged her. Underhill
said something to the effect that if he treated her like that now, what was
he like in practise. That fall, is when Elena had her "accident". Now we
know, what he was like in practise.
Pat C
BH8833
I suspect that her former partner is the European version of Tonya now: who in
their right mind would even consider skating with him? His career is over even
if the accident was really an accident. I think it was carelessness that
caused it. Why were they on the ice with no coach?
Valerie
In article <34DE0451...@netcom.ca>,
Sarah Weinman <wein...@netcom.ca> wrote:
>Phil Hersh has managed to come up with a very interesting take on the
>whole Elena/Anton thing. He dug up Oleg Shliakhov and this is the
>interview:
> http://www.chicago.tribune.com/sports/othersports/article/0,1051,ART-2802,00.html
>
This is the same guy who makes fun of children, is it not? I'd hardly
take his word for much of anything.
Val
McKondik
>I suspect that her former partner is the European version of Tonya now: who
>in
>their right mind would even consider skating with him?
<snip>
Taking this thought to the next logical conclusion: How about if he pairs up
with Tonya ; -)
JennWa1234
Taking this thought to the next logical conclusion: How about if he pairs up
with Tonya ; -<<<<
Taking this even further out...even Tonya wouldn't be caught dead with this
guy.
PLUS, Oleg want to stay eligible and we all know Tonya's can not ever skate as
an eligible. Even if the USFSA was so inclined or any other country's skating
union, the reinstatement deadline passed a long time ago.
Jennifer
JennWa1234
I wish him luck in finding a new partner. Should he find one, I personally
offer to give her karate lessons pro bono.>>>
She would need more that than. Also, remember the Latvian government and how
they threatened Jelena in that she would not be allowed to leave the country.
So Oleg is not without political support for his despicable behavior.
Jennifer
Kaiju
I don't think that's a factor here. He's looking for a new partner here in
the U.S. He won't be able to skate in an Olympics until 2006...if he lasts
that long...assuming he's going to try to skate for the U.S. I don't know
what the rules are for Latvian citizenship should a U.S. citizen choose to
skate on their team with Oleg. Unless she gives up her U.S. citizenship, I'd
find it hard to believe the Latvian government could dictate her movements.
But if he's planning to skate as a pro...all bets are off!
All the same, my offer holds. I'll even travel! ;>
Kaiju <all in the interest of women in sports, of course...>
Fiona McQuarrie
JennWa1234 (jennw...@aol.com) wrote:
: Taking this even further out...even Tonya wouldn't be caught dead with this
: guy.
Oh dear, this is a rather unfortunate choice of words.
Cheers, Fiona
Che
On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:00:31 -0800, Kaiju <ka...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>
wrote:
>I don't think that's a factor here. He's looking for a new partner here in
>the U.S. He won't be able to skate in an Olympics until 2006...if he lasts
>that long...assuming he's going to try to skate for the U.S.
That raises an interesting question. We knocked Tonya out for KNOWING
about the commission of physical violence. Now we should let HIM skate
who is personally responsible for some?
JennWa1234
I don't think that's a factor here. He's looking for a new partner here in the
U.S. He won't be able to skate in an Olympics until 2006...if he lasts that
rules are for Latvian citizenship should a U.S. citizen choose to skate on
their team with Oleg. Unless she gives up her U.S. citizenship, I'd find it
hard to believe the Latvian government could dictate her movements.<<<
It would be a factor if any girl was willing to give up her citizenship to
skate with him and return to Latvia...which is pretty hard to imagine.
However, by the same token, I can't imagine him thinking he will be allowed to
skate here in the eligible ranks. I may be wrong, but my guess is that the
USFSA will not allow him in the competitions.
Jennifer
Louis Epstein
JennWa1234 (jennw...@aol.com) wrote:
: I don't think that's a factor here. He's looking for a new partner here in the
He would need a green card to compete here.I am not sure what the Latvians
would need from an immigrant there.
JennWa1234
He would need a green card to compete here.I am not sure what the Latvians
would need from an immigrant there.<<<<<
True, and sometimes it takes a good while to get it. Hopefully, in his case,
the paperwork will get lost. <G>
Jennifer
Gerald Anzano
I would advise him in advance not to try that same crap with a US
female. Most women I know would take one swat from him and then would
wait for some unguarded moment when he let down his defenses and then
WHAMO, he would be licking a nice set of Pattern 99's !
--
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bobn...@tiac.net
>On Mon, 09 Feb 1998 15:15:44 GMT, C...@nospam.com (Che ) wrote:
>He seems not to accept any responsibility for what he did.
Perhaps if we can get out of our "victim" mentality we can possible
consider (just for a millisecond, mind you) that maybe he didn't DO
anything!!!! There ARE three sides to every story!
>Suffice it >to say he's been thru much more than an ordinary number of partners.
Excuse the *%#$ out ta me??? The American (and Canadian) pairs
partners are the most obviously specious, fickle skaters IN THE WORLD.
How many partners has Rocky Marvel ever had?? Does the name Maria
Luko ring a bell? Joel McKeever (who skates for Greece now? - I
think?) has had a few! Exactly what IS an ordinary number of
partners. Every one of the top 10 (except maybe the Chinese) have had
at least 1 other partner (some have had many more. e.g. Sand, Woetzel,
Dunjen).
>And I doubt now that he could get any sane woman to chance him after
>what CBS broadcast. Another victim of the "must-win" psychology.
See Rocky Marvel (supra).
Isn't propaganda a glorious thing!
Tripstone
bobn...@tiac.net
On 9 Feb 1998 17:36:56 GMT, nlg...@aol.com (NLGHAtc) wrote:
>>He seems not to accept any responsibility for what he did. Suffice it
>>to say he's been thru much more than an ordinary number of partners.
>>And I doubt now that he could get any sane woman to chance him after
>>what CBS broadcast. Another victim of the "must-win" psychology.
>>
>>
>One thing though. You have to take that piece with a grain of salt. This is
>hardly the New York Times reporting. This is the entertainment division of CBS
>doing a soft-focus warm and fuzzy piece on how lovely Elena fought her way to
>get to the Olympics. I'd hardly call that unbiased and fair reporting. Not to
>knock Elena and Anton (who I happen to adore), but CBS was hardly showing both
>sides of the story.
>
>TC
Here, Here! TC - thanks for the reality check!
bobn...@tiac.net
On 9 Feb 1998 19:00:38 GMT, revj...@aol.com (Revjoelle) wrote:
>>One thing though. You have to take that piece with a grain of salt. This is
>hardly the New York Times reporting.
>
>We have Elena's word that he hit her. Why would she make that up? We have the
>coach (sorry not going to spell that one) saying he hit her. Why would she
>lie? All for a good story for her pair? A story that doesn't make her look
>real good because she was impotent? And we have Anton's word. Three people
>lying?
>And Oleg? No denial. Just that it's private. A typical abuser response.
>
>Nope. They may have overplayed the melodrama but I think this is a story we
>can believe.
>
>Joelle
Jenny Jones logic. The three people who have the most to benefit
from the story say its true so therefore it must be. Yup. That's
the ticket!
bobn...@tiac.net
On 10 Feb 1998 02:02:19 GMT, bh8...@aol.com (BH8833) wrote:
> His career is over even
>if the accident was really an accident.
Did Geraldo do a conspiracy piece yet? Maybe it was Henri Paul who
really put the blade in her head while he was drunk?
Shaking my head in amusement.....
Tripstone
Revjoelle
>Jenny Jones logic. The three people who have the most to benefit from the
story say its true so therefore it must be
I hope no woman that has ever been abused ever has to depend on you for
anything.
Kaiju
bobn...@tiac.net wrote:
>
> On 17 Feb 1998 04:51:32 GMT, revj...@aol.com (Revjoelle) wrote:
>
> >
> >I hope no woman that has ever been abused ever has to depend on you for
> >anything.
> >
> >Joelle
>
> piece on her tonight. This is actually Ricki Lake logic (quite
> different from Jenny Jones logic). Every man is an abuser (or plays
> one on TV) and every woman is a victim. And it's the same easy out -
> "I was abused". Um-hum. Women never lie.
And there are no men anywhere, anytime who have ever abused women. Men never
lie...those women do.
Yawn.
->PLOINK<-
Kaiju <it is truly troll season around here...>
bobn...@tiac.net
bobn...@tiac.net
On 17 Feb 98 13:50:57 GMT, marr...@binghamton.edu (Trudi Marrapodi)
wrote:
>In article <6cb0mh$g...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, bobn...@tiac.net wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> Excuse the *%#$ out ta me??? The American (and Canadian) pairs
>> partners are the most obviously specious, fickle skaters IN THE WORLD.
>> How many partners has Rocky Marvel ever had?? Does the name Maria
>> Luko ring a bell?
>
>[snip]
>
>No, but the name Maria Lako does.
I stand corrected!! Lake., not Luko.
Revjoelle
> and every woman is a victim. And it's the same easy out -
>"I was abused". Um-hum. Women never lie.
Bobnlary - You are awfully defensive on this subject.
Che
On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:18:05 GMT, bobn...@tiac.net wrote:
>You mean like poor abused Tonya. I just finished watching the CBS
>piece on her tonight. This is actually Ricki Lake logic (quite
>different from Jenny Jones logic). Every man is an abuser (or plays
>one on TV) and every woman is a victim. And it's the same easy out -
>"I was abused". Um-hum. Women never lie.
That's a pretty twisted way to exculpate Oleg Shliakov. Look, he only
needed to say "They're lying, I didnt hit her once". Saying "Its our
business" is a virtual confession. Since no one's talking about
locking him up for it or even suing for damages, there's no need for
either "proof beyond reasonable doubt" or even "preponderance of
evidence" required in due process. If he was innocent, there's no
possible reason for him to stop short of proclaiming that innocence.
What people are using to "exculpate" him is the simple fact that none
of us was there and have to rely on witnesses. Well, that is a tiny
little crack through which the occasional man who doesnt want to
believe abuse is real can squeak. But don't expect others to buy it.
Dim7sus
<<> You mean like poor abused Tonya. I just finished watching the CBS
> piece on her tonight. This is actually Ricki Lake logic (quite
> different from Jenny Jones logic). Every man is an abuser (or plays
> one on TV) and every woman is a victim. And it's the same easy out -
> "I was abused". Um-hum. Women never lie.>>
either. They interrupt the sports for a million commercials yet run this crap
with no inerruption.
Diana
dim...@aol.com
Valerie
In article <34eaf4ed....@news.wavetech.net>, Che <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>That's a pretty twisted way to exculpate Oleg Shliakov. Look, he only
>needed to say "They're lying, I didnt hit her once". Saying "Its our
>business" is a virtual confession. Since no one's talking about
>locking him up for it or even suing for damages, there's no need for
>either "proof beyond reasonable doubt" or even "preponderance of
>evidence" required in due process. If he was innocent, there's no
>possible reason for him to stop short of proclaiming that innocence.
>What people are using to "exculpate" him is the simple fact that none
>of us was there and have to rely on witnesses. Well, that is a tiny
>little crack through which the occasional man who doesnt want to
>believe abuse is real can squeak. But don't expect others to buy it.
A question, since I don't remember the interview well enough. The
translater was dubbed over, yes? Does anyone who speaks whatever
language he was using care to tell us whether the translation was
accurate?
Val, just wondering...