Help settle a backflip bet
Erik Kennedy
Hopefully somebody in this newsgroup can settle a long-raging (well,
mildly annoying) argument between my fiancee and I. She says Scott
Hamilton was the first men's skater to perform a backflip in a
competition or exhibition event, where I seem to recall Brian Orser
performing one at the annual Broadmoor ice show in Colorado Springs
(where I used to live) shortly before the 1988 Olympics. Who's right?
Let us know at e...@annap.infi.net (you can post it here, but I can't
guarantee that NewsWatcher will work long enough for me to read
it...grr...)
Erik
Lori Coulson
Robin Cousins was the first to do the back flip in professional
competition. It is an illegal move in amateur competitions.
Lori Coulson
Erik Kennedy (e...@annap.infi.net) wrote:
: Hopefully somebody in this newsgroup can settle a long-raging (well,
: Erik
--
*****************************************************
...Or do you still wait for me, Dream Giver...
Just around the riverbend? Pocahontas
*****************************************************
Sandra Loosemore
lcou...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Lori Coulson) writes:
> Robin Cousins was the first to do the back flip in professional
> competition. It is an illegal move in amateur competitions.
But it didn't always used to be illegal! It wasn't until after
Terry Kubicka did one in the 1976 Olympics (in the free skating, not
in an exhibition) that the ISU made the rule to ban them. This was
before Robin Cousins did one in a professional competition, naturally.
It's my understanding that show skaters were doing back flips a long
time before that, anyway.
-Sandra
P. D. Goldberg
Trudi Marrapodi wrote:
>
> In article <l7raj3j...@croak.cs.yale.edu>, Sandra Loosemore
> clip on ABC's Challenge fo Champions coverage in which a clip was shown of
> Kubicka doing the back flip in the '76 Olympics freeskate. I remember that
> so well. To be fair, the anti-back flip rule should be known as "the
> Kubicka rule."
>
> Trudi
> www...@frontiernet.net
Also, Terry Kubica was doing the backflip as early as 1974 - I saw him
do it at Star State '74 at the LA Sports Arena. Robin Cousins was also
there but I don't remember him doing one.
Pat
Trudi Marrapodi
fab4...@aol.com
In article <32F030...@annap.infi.net>, Erik Kennedy
<e...@annap.infi.net> writes:
>Hopefully somebody in this newsgroup can settle a long-raging (well,
>mildly annoying) argument between my fiancee and I. She says Scott
>Hamilton was the first men's skater to perform a backflip in a
>competition or exhibition event, where I seem to recall Brian Orser
>performing one at the annual Broadmoor ice show in Colorado Springs
>(where I used to live) shortly before the 1988 Olympics. Who's right?
>Let us know at e...@annap.infi.net (you can post it here, but I can't
>guarantee that NewsWatcher will work long enough for me to read
>it...grr...)
>
>Erik
Actually, I thought it was Terry Kubicka back in the 70's. I know he did
it as an amateur, which led to it being banned. Not sure if he was the
first, however.
Frank
Beautiful Downtown Beverly, MA GO PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!
Amateur Radio Operator KA1WZH
"Take a sad song, and make it better"--Lennon/McCartney
"What if I was Romeo in black jeans?"--Michael Penn
"And I think it's about, forgiveness"--Don Henley
CYBLUME
Robin Cousins was the 1st man to do a back flip in PRO competition but I
believe the skater that invented it was named Terry Kulick & he did in in
an amateur competition & the USFSA & the international skating federation
promptly banned it. It was Kulick's father, a former gymnast who came up
with the idea.
Cindi Blume
Lori Coulson <lcou...@freenet.columbus.oh.us> wrote in article
<5cqnv4$7...@login.freenet.columbus.oh.us>...
> Robin Cousins was the first to do the back flip in professional
> competition.
> Erik Kennedy (e...@annap.infi.net) wrote:
> : Hopefully somebody in this newsgroup can settle a long-raging (well,
revj...@aol.com
> And you must be a newcomer to Scott Hamilton or
>: you would be familiar with his beautiful "Battle Hymn of the Republic"
>: with beautiful edges and body line that he dedicated to the memory of
the
>: 1960 figure skating team (have any idea what that's all about?)
>
>The entire 1961 world team was killed in a plane crash,you never heard?
>
Gee, thank you, Louis, I did hear something about that somewhere--(I have
been following the sport for a few years-) I was asking the person who I
was responding to if they knew about it because I figured anyone who was
that ignorant of Scott Hamilton was probable ignorant of that as well.
Joelle
The main problem is not differences in points of view;
it is the emotional reaction to the differences.
Michael Nichols
Raven1331
The first man to perform a backflip in competition was American Terry
Kubicka in 1976. The move was immediately banned from amateur competition.
Men have been doing backflips, both tucks and layouts, for *decades* in
shows. As far as I know, the first man to perform a backflip in pro
competition was Robin Cousins. He was also the first person to do a two
layout series in competition, and as far as I know remains the only man to
ever do so. Surya Bonaly is the only woman to do a backflip series (in
exhibition, obviously).
Pax Vobiscum,
Donna
***********************************************************
"Every night and every morn,
some to misery are born;
Every morn and every night,
some are born to sweet delight;
Some are born to sweet delight;
Some are born to endless night..."
--W Blake
Krskater
I know that Robin Cousins was doing the backflip even before Scott
Hamilton, but I'm sure he wasn't the first either!. I hope this helps
your bet!
pegl...@aol.com
>Hopefully somebody in this newsgroup can settle a long-raging (well,
>mildly annoying) argument between my fiancee and I. She says Scott
>Hamilton was the first men's skater to perform a backflip in a
>competition or exhibition event, where I seem to recall Brian Orser
>performing one at the annual Broadmoor ice show in Colorado Springs
>(where I used to live) shortly before the 1988 Olympics. Who's right?
>Let us know at e...@annap.infi.net (you can post it here, but I can't
>guarantee that NewsWatcher will work long enough for me to read
>it...grr...)
>
>Erik
Wide world of sports showed the one and only legal backflip landed in
Olympic competition a couple weeks ago. I believe it was in Innsbruck,
1976, an American male skater.... but I haven't gone back to look at the
tape yet.
Hope this helps...
Peg
"Treading on your own dreams is truly insane." - Kenneth Atchity, "A
Writer's Time" (p.23)
===========
"Peter, I can't even *imagine* what that must feel like." - Dorothy
Hamill, 1996 Trophee LaLique (Skate International of France)
===========
"I can't be World Champion for the rest of my life." - Michelle Kwan (age
16), Autumn, 1996
revj...@aol.com
Erik Kennedy <e...@annap.infi.net> writes:
>Hopefully somebody in this newsgroup can settle a long-raging (well,
>mildly annoying) argument between my fiancee and I. She says Scott
>Hamilton was the first men's skater to perform a backflip in a
>competition or exhibition event, where I seem to recall Brian Orser
>performing one at the annual Broadmoor ice show in Colorado Springs
>(where I used to live) shortly before the 1988 Olympics. Who's right?
It was just on Wide World of Sports about someone who did a backflip in
1979(?) at a Worlds? (don't remember) and it was banned after that.
Scott did back flips before 1988 but I don't know when he started, I don't
think he was doing them in the early 80s (in exhibitions, he would not be
able to do them in competitions). I'm waiting for Trudi to tell us when
Brian Orser started doing them. Someone mentioned Robin Cousins doing
them, but I wonder when he started doing them?
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <19970131011...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
rave...@aol.com (Raven1331) wrote:
> The first man to perform a backflip in competition was American Terry
> Kubicka in 1976. The move was immediately banned from amateur competition.
> Men have been doing backflips, both tucks and layouts, for *decades* in
> shows. As far as I know, the first man to perform a backflip in pro
> competition was Robin Cousins. He was also the first person to do a two
> layout series in competition, and as far as I know remains the only man to
> ever do so.
Brian Orser and Scott Hamilton have done at least two back flips in
succession, although Scott does 'em in a tuck and Brian's vary from tuck
to pike.
> Surya Bonaly is the only woman to do a backflip series (in
> exhibition, obviously).
I'd believe that, although I don't think I've ever seen it.
How about "youngest female ever to do a back flip"? I would have to guess
that Stacey Pensgen may be our lady...I forget how old she is, but I saw
her do them at Skating Spectacular last October, and I don't think she is
much past 15...
...As for the first person EVER to do a back flip, I don't think we will
ever be able to trace that. We know that men have been doing them since at
least the 1940s. Skippy Baxter, who I think is in his 50s or 60s, is the
oldest man on record as still able to do one. Terry Kubicka (not Kulick as
reported elsewhere) was not the inventor; he was just the first and last
skater to do one in ISU competition when it was not yet Illegal. Scott
Hamilton did one in a pro-am being judged under ISU rules and was deducted
for it.
As for the answer that Joelle expected me to provide, FYI...according to
the Good Book (aka ORSER: A SKATER'S LIFE), "I started working on a
back-flip, which is illegal in competition skating, just before Christmas
in the parking lot outside the arena in Orillia" (p. 145). Because Brian
is speaking here of the 1986 Worlds and the reaction he got for his back
flip at that exhibition and the following tour, the Christmas he is
referring to is 1985. He claims he "unveiled" his back flip at '86 worlds.
So he's been doing one for almost 11 years now. But he has never tried to
claim credit for inventing it...:-)
Kevin Anderson
Erik Kennedy (e...@annap.infi.net) wrote:
: Hopefully somebody in this newsgroup can settle a long-raging (well,
: mildly annoying) argument between my fiancee and I. She says Scott
: competition or exhibition event
Skippy Baxter was doing them in shows back in the 1940s or 50s. The
first one done in competition was done in the 1970s. It was immeadiately
banned thereafter.
BTW, just about all the "firsts" were done by skaters nobody ever
heard of 5, 10, 15 years before they were done in competition. I
wouldn't be suprised if unsung skaters were landing quad toe loops
and triple axels in the 50s. Certainly by the 60s.
Kevin
LoisY
Here's some miscellaneous back flip information. Robin Cousins learned
his layout back flip (on the ice) in 1981and used it at Landover that
year. I saw him doing back flip-triple toe loop combinations in practice
in 1985 and two consecutive layout back flips in 1986 (including at
Landover), though I'm not sure when he first learned those combinations.
I also saw Robert Wagenhoffer doing back flip-triple toes and two
consecutive tuck backs in 1986, so there's a good chance one of them was
the first to do those combinations.
Skippy Baxter, who was one of the first skaters to do the back flip, if
not the first, celebrated his 70th (!) birthday by doing a couple back
flips on the ice. That was around five years ago. Skippy has also taught
a large number of skaters, including Robin, the back flip.
Lois
mary ellen
>
> Also, Terry Kubica was doing the backflip as early as 1974 - I saw him
> do it at Star State '74 at the LA Sports Arena. Robin Cousins was also
> there but I don't remember him doing one.
>
> Pat
The only skaters I know who can
do the backflip are: Terry K, Brian
Orser, Robin Cousins, Kurt Browning,
Elvis Stojko, Surya Bonaly. Are there
others?
--
Mary Ellen
Peter, I can't even imagine
what that must feel like.
Don't go there Dorothy...
mary ellen
P
> Also, Terry Kubica was doing the backflip as early as 1974 - I saw him
> do it at Star State '74 at the LA Sports Arena. Robin Cousins was also
> there but I don't remember him doing one.
>
> Pat
Also, add Scott Hamilton to
my list.
revj...@aol.com
mary ellen <ska...@bc.cybernex.net> writes:
>The only skaters I know who can
>do the backflip are: Terry K, Brian
>Orser, Robin Cousins, Kurt Browning,
>Elvis Stojko, Surya Bonaly. Are there
>others?
Ahem????
>Also, add Scott Hamilton to my list.
Thank you!
Dan Hollender, Micheal Weiss (his dad taught Dan & Scott to do the back
flip) --there was Eddi Vallon at the MGM ice capades who did back flips
(I think a lot of show skaters do them)--he's described in the program as
a "Pryo Skater" he skated with fireworks on his skates--which impressed
the heck out of my kids! He also did some triple toes and maybe another
triple--does anyone know more about him?
Regina Pace
revj...@aol.com wrote:
>
> mary ellen <ska...@bc.cybernex.net> writes:
>
> >The only skaters I know who can
> >do the backflip are: Terry K, Brian
> >Orser, Robin Cousins, Kurt Browning,
> >Elvis Stojko, Surya Bonaly. Are there
> >others?
>
> Ahem????
>
> >Also, add Scott Hamilton to my list.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Dan Hollender, Micheal Weiss (his dad taught Dan & Scott to do the back
> flip) --there was Eddi Vallon at the MGM ice capades
Add Jozef Sabovcik to the list . . .
Joan La Rochelle
Does anyone know why Kurt Browning is no longer doing the backflip?
TIA, Joan
Paige Goodwin
Just curious over Elvis Stojko name being on that list I had understood
that he did not do backflips as he almost put out Doug Leigh's eye while
attempting to learn this move? MAybe he can do one but doesn't anymore
anyone have any more info on this,
Patti G
Louis Epstein
Paige Goodwin (pat...@atcon.com) wrote:
: Just curious over Elvis Stojko name being on that list I had understood
Hmmm...I think I recall at '93 Worlds,where they finished 1-2 and did an
exhib together,Elvis was the one who did the backflip...I think Kurt's
injured his back too often to keep doing it.
Morag Carnie
Nope, faulty memory there, Louis. When they skated together, Kurt sent
Elvis out (with a kick on the butt) to do a triple axel, laughingly
claiming that he "couldn't do one". Then he "measured" the distance Elvis
had travelled with his (Kurt's) skate-blades, mimed astonishment and did a
few push-ups. Then he topped Elvis (well, for entertainment value,
anyway) with a back flip.
I've never seen Elvis do a back flip. In fact, on the one Canadian SOI
tour which featured Orser, Browning *and* Stojko (that same year, I
believe), the three of them shadow-skated a short piece together; when it
came to the back flip, Stojko stepped out of the line and did an
air-guitar thing as Orser and Browning flipped side-by-side. Seems pretty
clear he didn't have one then.
I've never had the impression that acquiring one is at the top of his
priority list. :-)
cheers
Morag Carnie
bw...@freenet.carleton.ca
Trudi Marrapodi
I can think of two other ladies who have back flips: Lori Benton and
Darren Verner (sp?). Saw 'em do these every night for a week at the Sea
World show in San Diego in '89. Lori used to do hers side-by-side with
Robert Wagenhoffer in the finale.
I think there are an awful lot of back-flippers out there.
Matthew J Gossman
mary ellen wrote:
>
> P
> > Also, Terry Kubica was doing the backflip as early as 1974 - I saw him
> > do it at Star State '74 at the LA Sports Arena. Robin Cousins was also
> > there but I don't remember him doing one.
> >
> > Pat
>
> my list.
I noticed "Jumpin' Joe" working VERY hard to match
Surya's one-footed landing.
Matthew J
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <19970205010...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
rave...@aol.com (Raven1331) wrote:
> <<As far as I know, the first man to perform a backflip in pro
> > competition was Robin Cousins. He was also the first person to do a two
> > layout series in competition, and as far as I know remains the only man
> to
> > ever do so.
>
> Brian Orser and Scott Hamilton have done at least two back flips in
> succession, although Scott does 'em in a tuck and Brian's vary from tuck
> to pike.>>
>
> Granted, that's why I specified layouts.
> Pax Vobiscum,
> Donna
Hey, just adding to the general detailed knowledge base...
Raven1331
>The only skaters I know who can
>do the backflip are: Terry K, Brian
>Orser, Robin Cousins, Kurt Browning,
>Elvis Stojko, Surya Bonaly. Are there
>others?
Aren Nielsen, also.
Raven1331
<<As far as I know, the first man to perform a backflip in pro
> competition was Robin Cousins. He was also the first person to do a two
> layout series in competition, and as far as I know remains the only man
to
> ever do so.
Brian Orser and Scott Hamilton have done at least two back flips in
succession, although Scott does 'em in a tuck and Brian's vary from tuck
to pike.>>
Granted, that's why I specified layouts.
Pamela-Marie
rave...@aol.com (Raven1331) wrote:
>>The only skaters I know who can
>>do the backflip are: Terry K, Brian
>>Orser, Robin Cousins, Kurt Browning,
>>Elvis Stojko, Surya Bonaly. Are there
>>others?
>
>Aren Nielsen, also.
>Pax Vobiscum,
Has everyone here forgotten Jumpin Joe?
Pamela-Marie
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <5dbd0j$g...@news2.snfc21.pacbell.net>, Pamela-Marie
<pamel...@juno.com> wrote:
No, he has been mentioned even if the posts haven't shown up at your site
yet. But I forgot all about Rory Flack Burghart! Shame on me!
Jody Frederick
>> >>The only skaters I know who can
>> >>do the backflip are: Terry K, Brian
>> >>Orser, Robin Cousins, Kurt Browning,
>> >>Elvis Stojko, Surya Bonaly.
Elvis can do the backflip now??? I once read that he nearly took out Doug
Leigh's eye (Doug was spotting him) with his toe pick and abandoned it
shortly afterwards.
Jody
Chloe
There's also Scott Hamilton and Josef Sabovcek (JS does it the best of
them all!)