--980731 - Newsday - KWAN SOARS INTO 1ST / TAN LINE ONLY FLAW IN SHORT PROGRAM
PegL...@aol.com
Tell Me More</A>
http://web.lexis-nexis.com/more/usoc/11488/3593773/2
BYLINE: By John Jeansonne. STAFF WRITER
Interesting writer. Some quotations, including stuff about the tan line that
someone mentioned in another thread:
"Clearly, the Skill Fairy once upon a time tapped Michelle Kwan on the
shoulder with a magic wand and made her good. Really, really good at figure
skating."
<snip>
"About the only thing that put Kwan in danger of a scoring deduction was the
tan line across her back. 'They could have done that,' she said."
" 'You can tell it's summer. I haven't worn that dress in a while, and when I
put it on, I realized I had the tan line.' She and Carroll considered some
last-minute patchwork with makeup but discarded the idea."
Peg
Kaiju
PegL...@aol.com wrote in message
<199807311150...@babyblue.CS.YALE.EDU>...
> <A HREF="http://web.lexis-nexis.com/more/usoc/11488/3593773/2">LEXIS-NEXIS
>Tell Me More</A>
>http://web.lexis-nexis.com/more/usoc/11488/3593773/2
>
>
>BYLINE: By John Jeansonne. STAFF WRITER
>
>Interesting writer. Some quotations, including stuff about the tan line
that
>someone mentioned in another thread:
><snip>
>
>"About the only thing that put Kwan in danger of a scoring deduction was
the
>tan line across her back. 'They could have done that,' she said."
>
>" 'You can tell it's summer. I haven't worn that dress in a while, and when
I
>put it on, I realized I had the tan line.' She and Carroll considered some
>last-minute patchwork with makeup but discarded the idea."
Great. Now not only must elite skaters be concerned about jumps, spins and
other technical elements, they should be concerned about their tan lines.
Heaven forbid they go out in the sun and not be topless lest they suffer
from the dreaded TAN LINES syndrome.
Yarite.
Kaiju <who can't believe this subtopic...>
PegLewis
<ka...@NOSPAM.ecn.com> writes:
>Great. Now not only must elite skaters be concerned about jumps, spins and
>other technical elements, they should be concerned about their tan lines.
>Heaven forbid they go out in the sun and not be topless lest they suffer
>from the dreaded TAN LINES syndrome.
>
>Yarite.
>
>
>Kaiju <who can't believe this subtopic...>
Hey, people ask, I have info... I offer info.
At least it's about skating. Kind of.
Peg, bemused
(PegL...@aol.com)
Visit The All-Kwan Network at http://members.aol.com/AllKwanNet/index.html
Visit Ljudmillia's text archives (courtesy Don Edwards) at
http://home.swbell.net/icedance/millia.htm
SmallovianNGB site coming soon!
Kaiju
>
> In article <6psq5m$qj8$1...@camel21.mindspring.com>, "Kaiju"
> <ka...@NOSPAM.ecn.com> writes:
>
> >Great. Now not only must elite skaters be concerned about jumps, spins and
> >other technical elements, they should be concerned about their tan lines.
> >Heaven forbid they go out in the sun and not be topless lest they suffer
> >from the dreaded TAN LINES syndrome.
> >
> >Yarite.
> >
> >
> >Kaiju <who can't believe this subtopic...>
>
> Hey, people ask, I have info... I offer info.
Ha! No criticism here directed at you, but at those who actually noticed, and
even went so far to comment on it. Must be a very boring event for them.
> At least it's about skating. Kind of.
<snicker> Heaven help us.
Kaiju
Violina23
and
even went so far to comment on it. Must be a very boring event for them.>>
I saw it, but I thought at first that she added one of those pieces of plastic
that hold the costume in place (like Tara used on her Sense And Sensibility
dress) ;-)
-Heather (it's been another long day ;-)
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Lot/3143/michelle.html
Ellen B. Edgerton
: Ha! No criticism here directed at you, but at those who actually noticed, and
There's no crime in noticing a tan line on someone's back. Not that it's
a big deal or anything. But I like to think that people who notice tan
lines on someone's back can achieve other feats of perception, such as
noticing that a train is coming down the tracks when the railroad crossing
lights are not working, or noticing that someone you care about has tears
in their eyes that they're trying to hide.
Perception. It's a Good Thing! :-)
Kaiju
Ah...but sometimes perception isn't a Good Thing. Some things are best not
commented on. Like telling an amputee, "Gee, you have a leg missing!" Like
telling a poor person, "You have a hole in your pants and your clothes are
faded." Like saying tan lines should be cause for marking down the
presentation score in a skating competition.
Uh...huh...
Noticing the tan lines is one thing. Making comments about the tan line
similar to the above is a bit on the weird tip...
Kaiju
edie/devon
obscene or something? Is it distracting? I think a wedgie is far worse. But even
that can't be helped. Confused.
DayDrm999
**I agree. What is the big deal about a tan line? I don't get it. Is it
supposed to be
obscene or something? Is it distracting? I think a wedgie is far worse. But
even
Maybe it's just me, but I thought the thing about the judges taking off for the
tan line was a joke. Am I just reading the article wrong?
I only noticed the tan line during the warm-up. As Michelle's dad seems kind of
old-fashioned, the thought ran through my mind "Wow, he let her wear a bikini?"
I thought the tan line was pretty funny, personally.
Of course, once she started skating, I didn't even think about it. :o)
>
>> Ellen B. Edgerton wrote:
>> >
>> > Kaiju (ka...@NOSPAM.ecn.com) wrote:
>> >
>> > : Ha! No criticism here directed at you, but at those who actually
>noticed, and
>> >
>> > There's no crime in noticing a tan line on someone's back. Not that it's
>> > a big deal or anything. But I like to think that people who notice tan
>> > lines on someone's back can achieve other feats of perception, such as
>> > noticing that a train is coming down the tracks when the railroad
>crossing
>> > lights are not working, or noticing that someone you care about has tears
>> > in their eyes that they're trying to hide.
>> >
>> > Perception. It's a Good Thing! :-)
>>
>> Ah...but sometimes perception isn't a Good Thing. Some things are best not
>> commented on. Like telling an amputee, "Gee, you have a leg missing!"
>Like
>> telling a poor person, "You have a hole in your pants and your clothes are
>> faded." Like saying tan lines should be cause for marking down the
>> presentation score in a skating competition.
>>
>> Uh...huh...
>>
>> Noticing the tan lines is one thing. Making comments about the tan line
>> similar to the above is a bit on the weird tip...
>>
>> Kaiju
>
Check out my Pete Sampras Website:
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Pressbox/4412/
Drop by the Message Board!
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi/mb98180
LV2SKT
we all know.
I guess it would have been "the age thing".No, It should not matter, but we all
know how many people are just waiting for a flaw of any kind to bag on. It was
noticable and was not all that pretty, but it was not a tan line comp and she
skated beautiful as usual.
Diogenes
wrote:
>I agree. What is the big deal about a tan line? I don't get it. Is it supposed to be
>obscene or something? Is it distracting? I think a wedgie is far worse. But even
>that can't be helped. Confused.
You know. Having seen some competitions in person, I'm not convinced
that what I'm seeing is a "tan line" at all. After all, they wear
nearly opage tights. How would a "tan line" even show? It is some
kind of TV illusion, but probably not what it looks like.
Kandyin
You know. Having seen some competitions in person, I'm not convinced
that what I'm seeing is a "tan line" at all. After all, they wear
nearly opage tights. How would a "tan line" even show? It is some
kind of TV illusion, but probably not what it looks like.
It is a tan line :) She says so; "you can tell it's summer."
In ballroom dancing competitions, the dancers wear body makeup
to make themselves look tan for the latin dance division..
Kandy
Jessica Kalal
Diogenes wrote:
> You know. Having seen some competitions in person, I'm not convinced
> that what I'm seeing is a "tan line" at all. After all, they wear
> nearly opage tights. How would a "tan line" even show? It is some
> kind of TV illusion, but probably not what it looks like.
Not that I think there was anything wrong with Michelle having a tan line but it was
definitely a tan line. Skaters tights do not go halway up our backs to where a bikini top
would be. The reason her tan line showed is because the dress has a low back...but not low
enough to show her tights. Besides she said herself it was a tan line :-)
Jess
Diogenes
On 1 Aug 1998 06:56:51 GMT, kan...@aol.com (Kandyin) wrote:
>******
>You know. Having seen some competitions in person, I'm not convinced
>that what I'm seeing is a "tan line" at all. After all, they wear
>nearly opage tights. How would a "tan line" even show? It is some
>kind of TV illusion, but probably not what it looks like.
PegLewis
Did you watch?
Peg, confused by Dio's apparent confusion
In article <35c2f6f5....@news.earthlink.net>, diog...@cynic.com
(Diogenes) writes:
Diogenes
in my area. Moreover, I've read these threads many times before.
People are always commenting on what they "saw", but except perhaps
above the waist, its all illusion. And with some costumes the "skin"
above the waist is illusion, too. I guess that is what I'm commenting
on. Also, if she had bare skin above the waist (do the costume rules
allow that?), that's fairly unusual in eligible competition. What
seems to be normal is cutouts with flesh-colored spandex under it.
If I'm "confused", that would be why.
Barbara M. Kostanick
>
> Ah...but sometimes perception isn't a Good Thing. Some things are best not
> commented on. Like telling an amputee, "Gee, you have a leg missing!" Like
> telling a poor person, "You have a hole in your pants and your clothes are
> faded." Like saying tan lines should be cause for marking down the
> presentation score in a skating competition.
>
> Uh...huh...
>
> Noticing the tan lines is one thing. Making comments about the tan line
> similar to the above is a bit on the weird tip...
>
> Kaiju
Gee, somehow I read the article and took *both* the reporter's comment
and Michelle's response as humor. I have to admit that I did notice the
tan line, did think that it looked a bit funny (cute-funny), and then
felt glad that she had at least some kind of time away from the rink.
Once she began skating I didn't notice it at all.
Regards,
Barb Kostanick
PegLewis
(Diogenes) writes:
>I'm not a "cable guy".
I understand. I didn't have cable until December. CBS is airing skating
highlights today at 1p central time; if you can get that, they'll probably show
the program.
> Commercial broadcast hasnt shown the skating
>in my area. Moreover, I've read these threads many times before.
>People are always commenting on what they "saw", but except perhaps
>above the waist, its all illusion.
Not in this case. Anna Rechnio had a tan line, too. But, as I said to someone
else in another thread, I only noticed the lines before and after the program
because I'm too busy watching the skating to notice things that superficial.
> And with some costumes the "skin"
>above the waist is illusion, too. I guess that is what I'm commenting
>on. Also, if she had bare skin above the waist (do the costume rules
>allow that?)
Ladies have a great deal more latitude in above-the-waist bareness than men.
Ladies can wear sleeveless, low-cut garments as long as they are "modest" and
don't have a bare midriff. Cutouts must be filled with illusion fabric, but you
can cut the back down to the brink of immodesty and get away with it.
>, that's fairly unusual in eligible competition.
Not for ladies. Especially not for Nicole Bobek's designer. Think back to most
of Nicole's LP costumes (Dr. Zhivago), or Tonia K's SP (Madame Butterfly) this
year - front is covered, back is bare.
If you've seen Michelle's SP (Rachmaninoff) at all this season (ABC: Skate
America, Nice & Easy pro-am, US Nationals, Worlds, Hershey's pro-am; NBC:
Golden Gala in Tokyo right after Olympics, Ultimate Four; FOX: Skate Canada;
CBS: Olympics, and probably today at 1p central for the Goodwill Games) you
have seen her dress, and the back is low-cut like so many skating dresses. Just
mentally impose a tan line from a bikini top across the back and you'll
envision what the silly thread is about. <g>
And yes, until this season, Michelle's costumes were abundant with the
flesh-colored fabric (even the first LP dress this season had a bunch of it.)
She seems to have broken through whatever concern she or whoever had about
showing real skin.
> What
>seems to be normal is cutouts with flesh-colored spandex under it.
Often this is true, but Michelle is there "in the flesh" in this costume.
Peg
PegLewis
writes:
>Gee, somehow I read the article and took *both* the reporter's comment
>and Michelle's response as humor.
Ad did I, but someone in another thread thought it was an awful thing that
should have been covered up with makeup. Which is why I posted the quote,
because the skater and reporters were kidding about that very concept.
Kaiju
>
> Kaiju wrote:
> >
>
> > Ah...but sometimes perception isn't a Good Thing. Some things are best not
> > commented on. Like telling an amputee, "Gee, you have a leg missing!" Like
> > telling a poor person, "You have a hole in your pants and your clothes are
> > faded." Like saying tan lines should be cause for marking down the
> > presentation score in a skating competition.
> >
> > Uh...huh...
> >
> > Noticing the tan lines is one thing. Making comments about the tan line
> > similar to the above is a bit on the weird tip...
> >
> > Kaiju
>
> and Michelle's response as humor.
If I knew the emoticon for it, I would have inserted a tongue firmly in
cheek. I figured anyone reading my "comparisons" would realize I wasn't being
entirely serious.
But the comments about the tan line still are on the weird tip.
> I have to admit that I did notice the
> tan line, did think that it looked a bit funny (cute-funny), and then
> felt glad that she had at least some kind of time away from the rink.
> Once she began skating I didn't notice it at all.
Until this thread, you also weren't moved to comment on the tan line. I
daresay most people wouldn't. Good for Michelle for not covering it up with
makeup. I mean...how silly!
Kaiju
Carole Marcum
Ellen B. Edgerton wrote:
> Kaiju (ka...@NOSPAM.ecn.com) wrote:
>
> : Ha! No criticism here directed at you, but at those who actually noticed, and
>
> There's no crime in noticing a tan line on someone's back. Not that it's
> a big deal or anything. But I like to think that people who notice tan
> lines on someone's back can achieve other feats of perception, such as
> noticing that a train is coming down the tracks when the railroad crossing
> lights are not working, or noticing that someone you care about has tears
> in their eyes that they're trying to hide.
>
> Perception. It's a Good Thing! :-)
I noticed the tan line and smiled. Thought it was cute and was glad that Michelle
had apparently found some time to go to the beach or a pool to relax.
Carole
OperettaJK
writes:
>I noticed the tan line and smiled. Thought it was cute and was glad that
>Michelle
>had apparently found some time to go to the beach or a pool to relax.
Hey, she lives by a lake. It could be on her own sun deck. :-)
Jas
Trudi Marrapodi
viol...@aol.com (Violina23) wrote:
[quoting someone else]
> <<Ha! No criticism here directed at you, but at those who actually noticed,
> and
> even went so far to comment on it. Must be a very boring event for them.>>
DId you ever think it might be possible to be intensely interested in an
event and still pay attention to details like that?
I don't suppose so.
Sigh...
Trudi
Kaiju
I certainly find it bizarre that people are so interested in the tan
lines displayed by an athlete that it is subject to intense debate for 3
weeks.
Kaiju <and counting...>
Kaiju
>
> In article <35D452E4...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>, Kaiju
> people who are easily annoyed by thin-skinned fans.
>
> That's why.
Please. It could be Ljudmillia S., and if someone made the same
obsessed observations, I'd have the same reaction. It's dumb and
petty. That goes for comments about Brian Orser's boots, as well. It's
dumb and petty. What's the big deal? Can they skate? Did they skate?
Did the tan line or boots affect their ability to skate? Maybe Orser's
boots might, but taped up boots are insignificant until they do. Shall
we start peering at skaters to see if they have moleskin sticking out of
their boots? Or if their fingernails aren't the right color? Let's go
on and on about those little silver clips the Russian skaters tend to
use in their hair, why don't we? Oh...I forgot. We do.
Get a grip. This has nothing to do with "fandom", but a pure reaction
to anal retentive behavior.
Kaiju
Trudi Marrapodi
> Trudi Marrapodi wrote:
> >
> > In article <199807312221...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> > viol...@aol.com (Violina23) wrote:
> >
> > [quoting someone else]
> >
> > > <<Ha! No criticism here directed at you, but at those who actually
noticed,
> > > and
> > > even went so far to comment on it. Must be a very boring event for
them.>>
> >
> > DId you ever think it might be possible to be intensely interested in an
> > event and still pay attention to details like that?
>
> I certainly find it bizarre that people are so interested in the tan
> lines displayed by an athlete that it is subject to intense debate for 3
> weeks.
>
>
> Kaiju <and counting...>
You know why it is subject to intense debate? Thin-skinned fans, and
people who are easily annoyed by thin-skinned fans.
That's why.
Trudi
TCAXEL
It could be Ljudmillia S., and if someone made the same obsessed
observations, I'd have the same reaction. It's dumb and petty. That goes for
comments about Brian Orser's boots, as well. It's dumb and petty. What's the
big deal? Can they skate? Did they skate?
I think Dick Button's "Look, her boots are skuffed !" remark in '84 Olympics
with Kira Ivanova was an example of this kind of pettiness, but unfortunately
with Uncle Dick we couldn't yell at him "Shut up now!"
TCAXEL -diverting the attention from individual posters and back to our
beloved, irracisible Guardian of Pettiness. In fact, why don't we end all and
every dispute by pointing to the real culprit to all disagreements, Dick
Button.
MCleoMarie
and
>people who are easily annoyed by thin-skinned fans.
>
>
(i.e. those who burn easily)?
-Cleo, ducking
MCleoMarie
'84 Olympics
>with Kira Ivanova was an example of this kind of pettiness, but unfortunately
>with Uncle Dick we couldn't yell at him "Shut up now!"
Good grief, when I made my comment about Kira Ivanova on an post early on in my
reading of this ng, I had no idea that she would be mentioned in three
additional posts (so far)!
-Cleo, thinking Kira's 15 minutes were up long ago...
Trudi Marrapodi
mcleo...@aol.com (MCleoMarie) wrote:
> tcaxel wrote:>I think Dick Button's "Look, her boots are skuffed !" remark in
> '84 Olympics
> >with Kira Ivanova was an example of this kind of pettiness, but unfortunately
> >with Uncle Dick we couldn't yell at him "Shut up now!"
Hey, I have to admit, this is EXACTLY the kind of detail that bugs me, and
to me shows a lack of respect for the sport (not polishing the boots
before competing). If that makes Dick and me petty to be noticing such
things, then I am a proud bearer of the Flag of Pettiness!
> Good grief, when I made my comment about Kira Ivanova on an post early
on in my
> reading of this ng, I had no idea that she would be mentioned in three
> additional posts (so far)!
>
> -Cleo, thinking Kira's 15 minutes were up long ago...
Ah, but so many of us remember her for this. Her bad freeskating alone
wouldn't be all that memorable by itself, but combine it with scuffed,
dirty boots, and you have a lasting impression.
Think about it, skaters!
Trudi
TCAXEL
>Hey, I have to admit, this is EXACTLY the kind of detail that bugs me, and to
me shows a lack of respect for the sport (not polishing the boots before
competing). If that makes Dick and me petty to be noticing such things, then I
am a proud bearer of the Flag of Pettiness!
Precisely. It's that kind of detail that bugs you PERSONALLY. It doesn't have
to do with their skating. That was Kaiju's point. If somebody said that Brian
Orser's red costume from the "88 Olympics made him look like a flaming bellboy
from hell and didn't show a proper respect for the sport (aka proper attire)
it would be just as petty. It didn't affect his performance as far as we know.
As I recall Louis Epstein per this same subject several months ago said that
it was a custom/tradition among certain Russian skaters not to polish their
boots. If that is the case, the crack to Kira was a petty observation based
upon an Americentric point of view of what is "proper". "Lack of respect for
the Sport" doesn't enter into it.
Besides, it doesn't have a direct correlation to how the skater perfoms. If
not, we would be going around saying that Brian Orser better have had color
coordinated duct tape in his practice sessions or that wasn't proper respect
for the sport. (though I think Peggy Fleming would have said so, since she's
admonished others on the same subject)
Hey, I tried to redirect the post squarely on Dick's shoulder. Oh well.
TCAXEL
Chelsea Christenson
> Precisely. It's that kind of detail that bugs you PERSONALLY. It
> doesn't have to do with their skating.
But it does have to do with competing.
Suppose you interview someone for a job and they show up in dirty
clothing. It doesn't have any indication of their ability to do the
job, but it does make you think they aren't taking you or this
opportunity seriously. Judges and audiences are no happier about not
being taken seriously than anyone else.
TCAXEL
>But it does have to do with competing.
**********
No, Kira was markeddown 'cause she had slow and traveling spins, bad footwork,
and had very (to put it kindly) inconsistent jumping technique. In fact, when
Dick Buton made his remark she actually won the bronze at the "84 Olympics,
albeit for her standings after figures. There is no indication other than Dick
Button that the judges in ;any way, shape or form were marking down for this
or disapproved.
TCAXEL
TCAXEL
>Get a grip. This has nothing to do with "fandom", but a pure reaction
to anal retentive behavior.
Trudi wrote:
>Kaiju, I know you personally dislike me because we've clashed in the past,
but that's no reason you have to label my behavior as "anal retentive." If it
is, every skating fan I know besides you is anal -retentive, and you're
anal-retentive about NOT being anal-retentive.
**************
Uh, I think Kaiju's remark was in reference to people getting upset by
individual remarks/observations on an idividual basis as opossed to all of them
"worshipping" a skater.
And Trudi, with all due respect , must so many of the
discussions/disagreeements you have revert back to "You don't like me?" You
labeled a whole group of people "thin skinned" fans in your previous posts, yet
it was your own thin-skinned and misunderstood response to a Seemaj post
(which was actually lightheartedly mocking Kwan NOT being slammed) which
started this whole subthreat subject.
TCAXEL (not spreading blame, just, well...I don't know)
TCAXEL
TCAXEL
Kaiju
>
> In article <35D4D522...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>, Kaiju
> <ka...@NOSPAM.ecn.com> wrote:
> > > You know why it is subject to intense debate? Thin-skinned fans, and
> > > people who are easily annoyed by thin-skinned fans.
> > >
> > > That's why.
> >
> > Please. It could be Ljudmillia S., and if someone made the same
> > obsessed observations, I'd have the same reaction.
>
> No, you wouldn't. You'd be so hypnotized by her skating, like everyone
> else, that you'd completely forget about her tan lines. ;-)
Ljudmillia doesn't have tan lines. The sun never shines where she
lives, since she is the brightest light there. I'd just be blinded by
her luminescence. So there.
> > It's dumb and
> > petty. That goes for comments about Brian Orser's boots, as well. It's
> > dumb and petty.
>
> I don't think so. Can you imagine what would happen if some skater started
> skating with obvious silver duct tape on their boots all the time? Do you
> think this would go completely uncommented-upon because it's "dumb and
> petty"?
There would be months of controversy, and I would probably make one post
that says the entire tempest in a teapot is dumb and petty. Which would
probably result in a neverending subthread demanding that I retract that
declaration.
> How about criticizing their costumes? Is laughing at Ilia's
> giraffe/cow shirt "dumb and petty" to you too? Or are you a human being
> like most fans?
Actually, some of the comments about Ilia's shirt were just ignorant.
(His *mother* sewed it for him? Please.)
> Heck, if Orser skated with duct tape on his skates I'd probably feel I had
> to defend him from all the guffawing that would happen here.
Brian probably did skate with that duct tape. He probably just covered
them with boot covers for performances.
> But Michelle,
> no, we can't comment on her tan lines. Whatever Michelle does is sacred!
Well, it is obvious you still don't get it. And don't want to. Say
there is an elite skater who, like me, wears a broad bracelet virtually
24/7. For a program, that skater removes that bracelet. If that skater
is like me, there is going to be a very noticeable tan line where that
bracelet is normally. Is that worthy of comment? Should that skater
cover up the tan line with makeup? Should there be a month long thread
discussing that tan line from the bracelet?
It's dumb and petty, and this has absolutely nothing to do with Michelle
Kwan.
> > What's the big deal? Can they skate? Did they skate?
> > Did the tan line or boots affect their ability to skate? Maybe Orser's
> > boots might, but taped up boots are insignificant until they do. Shall
> > we start peering at skaters to see if they have moleskin sticking out of
> > their boots?
>
> I think I've actually seen that. Or maybe it was those cosmetic pads that
> Tonya Harding used to stuff in the tops of her boots to prevent chafing.
> Yeah, I think some people did note it.
It was dumb and petty. But she wore costumes worthy of comment. Since
costumes are part of the scoreable elements of programs, so be it. I
don't know what score could be applied to a tan line.
> > Or if their fingernails aren't the right color?
>
> I don't care what color their nails are.
I don't care about tan lines.
> > Let's go
> > on and on about those little silver clips the Russian skaters tend to
> > use in their hair, why don't we? Oh...I forgot. We do.
>
> And of course, you are ABOVE all this. You NEVER do it?
You can check Deja News, but I'm certain you'll not find any comment
from me about those clips. Nor about Leslie Visser's hair. Or Dick
Button's lack thereof. I notice things, but I don't obsess about them.
99% of the time, I don't even mention these things unless I'm making a
joke. I certainly won't be so gawdawful serious about this as many of
the commenters here have been. Dag. People were serious about joking,
even.
> > Get a grip. This has nothing to do with "fandom", but a pure reaction
> > to anal retentive behavior.
>
> Kaiju, I know you personally dislike me because we've clashed in the past,
> but that's no reason you have to label my behavior as "anal retentive." If
> it is, every skating fan I know besides you is anal-retentive, and you're
> anal-retentive about NOT being anal-retentive.
>
> Sheesh.
If I'm anal retentive about anything, it is about not being a superfan
of any skater...which is precisely what you have wrongly depicted me as
being.
Kaiju
Barbara Hoffman
> I meant subthread, not subthreat.
"A Freudian slip is saying one thing, but meaning your mother."
Barbara
"I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because
I hate plants." - A. Whitney Brown
TCAXEL
I wrote: >> I meant subthread, not subthreat.
>
Barbara wrote:
>"A Freudian slip is saying one thing, but meaning your mother."
LOL. That's true. However if you knew my typing skills you'd know it was a "
typo-freudian slip."
TCAXEL
Frances
onto the ice when they noticed teh tan line and there wasn't really time
to do anything about it. I thought it was distracting until she started
skating. Nothing distracts from Shelly's skating.
Frances
Kaiju
>
> In article <35D9ECF6...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>, Kaiju
> Fine, so you're not whatever is defined by that phrase "superfan" some
> people around here like to lob around. But you're defending people who
> were acting (at least at one point) like "superfans" by making it look
> like it was all my fault for riling them up. I'd appreciate you taking a
> look at the dynamics before doing that.
Actually, I don't know what you're talking about. I wasn't defending
anyone, and more than likely I never read whatever post or posts that
have you up in arms. More often than not, I read some of the posts on
RSSIF, roll my eyes, and don't even finish reading to the end. (I don't
even respond unless I'm in a certain mood.) Maybe those posts you
describe fell in that category. It sounds like they would.
The bit of a post to which you responded was mine, and it was maybe the
third post in the thread. In fact, I wrote it 3 weeks ago following
Peg's and my responses to some hapless, now forgotten soul who was
clearly critical (and not joking) of Michelle's "very distracting" tan
line. In other words, it was written long before you or mostly anyone
else became involved in this thread. At the time I thought the
expressed concern was nonsensical, and I still do. Clearly, my original
comment was not directed at you since you were not involved. In fact, I
never would have said anything to you had you not flown at me.
To clarify my position, I do not, however, think the tan line criticism
is nonsensical solely because the comment was directed at Michelle Kwan,
nor do I feel the need to defend Michelle Kwan everytime someone says
something unkind or uncomplimentary about her. Nor will I ever join a
Michelle Kwan fan club...or any other fan club for that matter.
Kaiju <who likes Kwan's skating and her attitude, but doesn't give a fig
about her tan lines...>
Kaiju
>
> >>Kaiju <who likes Kwan's skating and her attitude, but doesn't give a fig
> about her tan lines...><<
>
> Boy I can really picture this....
What? A new form of tattoos?
I can see it now. People wearing different shaped patches in the sun
and tanning salons...to form tan tattoos. Then wearing specially
designed clothing to show off the tan tattoos.
It could become a new trend. What a concept.
Kaiju <who obviously needs to go back to work and stop this stuff...>
Trudi Marrapodi
tca...@aol.com (TCAXEL) wrote:
Yeah, and she had all those faults and the alleged "Russian superstition"
of not polishing boots before a competition didn't help her one iota, did
it?
When superstitions don't work, you're supposed to discard them...
Trudi (who says "Yeah, so Brian Orser did look like a flaming bellboy from
hell in his Calgary long-program costume, and I'm planning on giving him
color-coordinated duct tape for Christmas, so what do you wanna make of
it?" ;-))
Trudi Marrapodi
tca...@aol.com (TCAXEL) wrote:
> Kaiju wrote:
> >Get a grip. This has nothing to do with "fandom", but a pure reaction
> to anal retentive behavior.
> ************************
> Trudi wrote:
> >Kaiju, I know you personally dislike me because we've clashed in the past,
> but that's no reason you have to label my behavior as "anal retentive." If it
> is, every skating fan I know besides you is anal -retentive, and you're
> anal-retentive about NOT being anal-retentive.
> **************
> Uh, I think Kaiju's remark was in reference to people getting upset by
> individual remarks/observations on an idividual basis as opossed to all
of them
> "worshipping" a skater.
How do you figure that?
> And Trudi, with all due respect , must so many of the
> discussions/disagreeements you have revert back to "You don't like me?"
Oh, do they really? Can you back that up with proof, or is it just your
impression? I think I'm pretty careful. I don't go around accusing people
of not liking me just for the heck of it.
> You
> labeled a whole group of people "thin skinned" fans in your previous
posts, yet
> it was your own thin-skinned and misunderstood response to a Seemaj post
> (which was actually lightheartedly mocking Kwan NOT being slammed) which
> started this whole subthreat subject.
>
> TCAXEL (not spreading blame, just, well...I don't know)
What are you talking about--seriously? Someone--a few people--accused me
of paying attention to something that wasn't important, as a deliberate
attack on Michelle because I can't find any weaknesses in her skating. I
thought it was insulting to imply that I'm the kind of fan who a) focuses
on the unimportant b) attacks Michelle because I can't find any weaknesses
in her skating.
Does any of this make any sense?
Trudi
Trudi Marrapodi
> Trudi Marrapodi wrote:
> >
> > In article <35D4D522...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>, Kaiju
> > <ka...@NOSPAM.ecn.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > > You know why it is subject to intense debate? Thin-skinned fans, and
> > > > people who are easily annoyed by thin-skinned fans.
> > > >
> > > > That's why.
> > >
> > > Please. It could be Ljudmillia S., and if someone made the same
> > > obsessed observations, I'd have the same reaction.
> >
> > No, you wouldn't. You'd be so hypnotized by her skating, like everyone
> > else, that you'd completely forget about her tan lines. ;-)
>
> Ljudmillia doesn't have tan lines. The sun never shines where she
> lives, since she is the brightest light there. I'd just be blinded by
> her luminescence. So there.
Well, you're probably right about that.
> > > It's dumb and
> > > petty. That goes for comments about Brian Orser's boots, as well. It's
> > > dumb and petty.
> >
> > I don't think so. Can you imagine what would happen if some skater started
> > skating with obvious silver duct tape on their boots all the time? Do you
> > think this would go completely uncommented-upon because it's "dumb and
> > petty"?
>
> There would be months of controversy, and I would probably make one post
> that says the entire tempest in a teapot is dumb and petty. Which would
> probably result in a neverending subthread demanding that I retract that
> declaration.
Well, it wouldn't be from me, OK?
> > How about criticizing their costumes? Is laughing at Ilia's
> > giraffe/cow shirt "dumb and petty" to you too? Or are you a human being
> > like most fans?
>
> Actually, some of the comments about Ilia's shirt were just ignorant.
> (His *mother* sewed it for him? Please.)
I think people got legitimately confused...
> > Heck, if Orser skated with duct tape on his skates I'd probably feel I had
> > to defend him from all the guffawing that would happen here.
>
> Brian probably did skate with that duct tape. He probably just covered
> them with boot covers for performances.
I wouldn't be surprised. ;-)
> > But Michelle,
> > no, we can't comment on her tan lines. Whatever Michelle does is sacred!
>
> Well, it is obvious you still don't get it. And don't want to.
Hey, maybe you don't think Michelle is sacred, but I've been accused of
being in legion with the evildoers who will knock anything about her they
can think of that is non-skating because they just can't find any fault
with her skating. I found that rather insulting and I thought the vast
majority of RSSIFers should know me better than that.
> Say
> there is an elite skater who, like me, wears a broad bracelet virtually
> 24/7. For a program, that skater removes that bracelet. If that skater
> is like me, there is going to be a very noticeable tan line where that
> bracelet is normally. Is that worthy of comment?
Yes.
> Should that skater
> cover up the tan line with makeup?
Probably not possible in that case, but a well-placed and properly-colored
athletic bandage might work. ;-)
> Should there be a month long thread
> discussing that tan line from the bracelet?
Hey, I made ONE post about it. ONE post. It was that ONE post that had
people going off half cocked about my attitude toward Michelle. The rest
of the "month-long thread" (month?) has been me defending myself from
attack. Never would've happened if people hadn't suspected my motives.
Sheesh, I'd notice tan lines on any skater, not just Michelle. People seem
to forget that I commented about seeing tan lines on the skaters at Minto
Summer Skate. Not because it was earthshattering but because it was funny.
> It's dumb and petty, and this has absolutely nothing to do with Michelle
> Kwan.
>
> > > What's the big deal? Can they skate? Did they skate?
> > > Did the tan line or boots affect their ability to skate? Maybe Orser's
> > > boots might, but taped up boots are insignificant until they do. Shall
> > > we start peering at skaters to see if they have moleskin sticking out of
> > > their boots?
> >
> > I think I've actually seen that. Or maybe it was those cosmetic pads that
> > Tonya Harding used to stuff in the tops of her boots to prevent chafing.
> > Yeah, I think some people did note it.
>
> It was dumb and petty. But she wore costumes worthy of comment. Since
> costumes are part of the scoreable elements of programs, so be it. I
> don't know what score could be applied to a tan line.
Well, as I see it, your whole appearance is part of skating. That means
that while I wouldn't say to a skater "go out and get your teeth fixed" or
"go out ad get a nose job," I don't see what is so horrible about
commenting on tan lines. Think of all the commentary we have here about
embarrassing wedgies.
> > > Or if their fingernails aren't the right color?
> >
> > I don't care what color their nails are.
>
> I don't care about tan lines.
Fine, so you and I can agree to disagree?
> > > Let's go
> > > on and on about those little silver clips the Russian skaters tend to
> > > use in their hair, why don't we? Oh...I forgot. We do.
> >
> > And of course, you are ABOVE all this. You NEVER do it?
>
> You can check Deja News, but I'm certain you'll not find any comment
> from me about those clips. Nor about Leslie Visser's hair. Or Dick
> Button's lack thereof. I notice things, but I don't obsess about them.
Neither do I. I just "notice" them. Seems like one person's "noticing" is
another person's "obsessing about," doesn't it?
> 99% of the time, I don't even mention these things unless I'm making a
> joke.
And it's OK for you to make a joke, but it's not OK for me to see Michelle
and say "We can tell it's summer, can't we?" Why the double standard?
> I certainly won't be so gawdawful serious about this as many of
> the commenters here have been. Dag. People were serious about joking,
> even.
I get the impression the serious ones were the ones coming after me for joking.
> > > Get a grip. This has nothing to do with "fandom", but a pure reaction
> > > to anal retentive behavior.
> >
> > Kaiju, I know you personally dislike me because we've clashed in the past,
> > but that's no reason you have to label my behavior as "anal retentive." If
> > it is, every skating fan I know besides you is anal-retentive, and you're
> > anal-retentive about NOT being anal-retentive.
> >
> > Sheesh.
>
> If I'm anal retentive about anything, it is about not being a superfan
> of any skater...which is precisely what you have wrongly depicted me as
> being.
Fine, so you're not whatever is defined by that phrase "superfan" some
people around here like to lob around. But you're defending people who
were acting (at least at one point) like "superfans" by making it look
like it was all my fault for riling them up. I'd appreciate you taking a
look at the dynamics before doing that.
Trudi
PegLewis
<trudiwantsnospam...@cci-209150250071.clarityconnect.net>,
trudiwan...@clarityconnect.com (Trudi Marrapodi) writes:
> Someone--a few people--accused me
>of paying attention to something that wasn't important, as a deliberate
>attack on Michelle because I can't find any weaknesses in her skating.
One person did this. After I teased you about noticing it.
What a heck of a thread from one misunderstood post (my teasing by the person
who thought I was serious).
Peg, who despite the turns of this thread would tease again ;-)
(PegL...@aol.com)
Visit The All-Kwan Network at http://members.aol.com/AllKwanNet/index.html
Visit Ljudmillia's text archives (courtesy Don Edwards) at
http://home.swbell.net/icedance/millia.htm
SmallovianNGB site coming soon!
Kandyin
>>Kaiju <who likes Kwan's skating and her attitude, but doesn't give a fig
about her tan lines...><<
Unless the tan lines are part of her costume ;)
Boy I can really picture this....
Kandy
Trudi Marrapodi
<ka...@NOSPAM.ecn.com> wrote:
> What? A new form of tattoos?
>
> I can see it now. People wearing different shaped patches in the sun
> and tanning salons...to form tan tattoos. Then wearing specially
> designed clothing to show off the tan tattoos.
>
> It could become a new trend. What a concept.
>
>
> Kaiju <who obviously needs to go back to work and stop this stuff...>
Don't be surprised. Look at how elaborate people get with REAL tattoos. I
wouldn't have thought that possible either.
Trudi (thinking of a new version of that song from "There's No Business
Like Show Business"..."A skater's not a skater 'til a skater's been
tan-tooed!")
Chelsea Christenson
>
> Chelsea wrote:
>
> >But it does have to do with competing.
> **********
>
> No, Kira was markeddown 'cause she had slow and traveling spins, bad
> footwork, and had very (to put it kindly) inconsistent jumping
> technique. In fact, when Dick Buton made his remark she actually won
> the bronze at the "84 Olympics, albeit for her standings after
> figures. There is no indication other than Dick Button that the judges
> in ;any way, shape or form were marking down for this or disapproved.
I didn't claim she was, so what does this have to do with anything?
When I say "competing," I mean the whole process. Apparently, you think
of the end result. I had hoped that by saying that the judges AND THE
AUDIENCE preferred to be treated with respect, I would indicate that it
wasn't a matter of the marks. It seems I'm going to have to work on my
subtlety problem.
TCAXEL
hell in his Calgary long-program costume, and I'm planning on giving him
color-coordinated duct tape for Christmas, so what do you wanna make of it?"
;-))
Trudi, I apologize: I shoudn't be teasing deceased skaters costumes. But I
betcha if his next one has wings he will have covered the spectrum. :-)
TCAXEL
TCAXEL
>When superstitions don't work, you're supposed to discard them...
That's an interesting point. What quirky superstitions does any one know that
certain skaters have?
TCAXEL
SKHazen
(TCAXEL) writes [in a thead of a different title so long departed therefrom
that telling you what it was would make no difference]:
>That's an interesting point. What quirky superstitions does any one know
>that
>certain skaters have?
One of the cutest I remember was Irina Slutskaya at Jr Worlds in Colorado
Springs, Dec 93. We simply would not get on the ice (practice, warmup,
competition) until she had placed a toy stuffed animal (I recall it being a
cat-like creature, but I could be wrong) *on* the ice with her. It was quite
small and was placed so close to the boards as to be almost invisible. Placed
there quite lovingly and solemnly, I should note.
That was probably a violation of all kinds of rules for which the Referee could
have imposed discipline, but did not. On the other hand, Irina's attempts to
do the same at the 1994 Skate America in Pittsburgh were thwarted so the
stuffed animal remained up against the boards on the side away from the ice. I
don't recall ever seeing it again.
SKHazen
(SKHazen) writes:
> We simply would not get on the ice (practice, warmup,
OOPS! That should, of course, be "She simply ...." Even in my wildest
fantasies, I did not compete.
cgla...@hotmail.com
tca...@aol.com (TCAXEL) wrote:
> Trudi wrote:
> >When superstitions don't work, you're supposed to discard them...
> **********
> certain skaters have?
Both Tara and Michelle have 'lucky' necklaces.
--
Chuckg
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
TCAXEL
the end result. I had hoped that by saying that the judges AND THE AUDIENCE
preferred to be treated with respect, I would indicate that it
wasn't a matter of the marks. It seems I'm going to have to work on my
subtlety problem.
No you don't have a subtlety problem. Let me clarify my stance. As I
mentioned in a previous post it was said that the Russian skaters had a
tradition of not polishing their boots before a competion. So when you said it
was an indication of not taking their opportunity seriously,(i.e. job
interview) I responded saying that the judges didn't seem to take that into the
account, but instead she was marked by her skating. As to whether the AUDIENCE
viewed that as Ivanova not taking competing seriously or showing respect, well,
I guess that would have to be taken on an individual basis. Which you did and
I respect your opinion on it. I feel the best respect to the sport is trying
to skate your best and win or lose, behave graciously. But you clarified your
original stance, I just failed to answer back in a precise and coherent way to
also include the audience aspect that you encompassed with the term
"competing."
TCAXEL
Barbara Hoffman
> "Oh, no, I can't have the dress cleaned, this is my 'lucky' stain!"
In view of current events, I shall follow Peter Carruthers's advice and not "go
there."
Barbara (ever saintly)
TCAXEL
>Well, to me it's like competing with, say, a soup stain on your dress or
something. "Oh, no, I can't have the dress cleaned, this is my 'lucky' stain!"
>
Well Trudi, I know how I'll be able to spot you at competitons, you're the one
with the binoculars looking out seriously for soup stains, skuffed boots and
tan lines but laughing goodnaturedly at duct tape.:-)
TCAXEL
TCAXEL
>> "Oh, no, I can't have the dress cleaned, this is my 'lucky' stain!"
>In view of current events, I shall follow Peter Carruthers's advice and not
"go there."
>
>Barbara (ever saintly)
********************
ROTFL. Great one Barbie. It didn't even occur to me Trudi was evoking the
spirit of Monica Lewinsky. Does this mean Monica doesn't have "respect for her
sport?" :-)
TCAXEL
Trudi Marrapodi
tca...@aol.com (TCAXEL) wrote:
It didn't occur to me either, believe it or not. Maybe it's just something
in the U.S. zeitgeist now...my native land has stained dresses on the
brain...
Trudi
"I feel sorry for all you people who don't drink. Because however you feel when you wake up in the morning--that's as good as you're gonna feel all day."
--Dean Martin, 1965 Frank Sinatra TV special
Trudi Marrapodi
tca...@aol.com (TCAXEL) wrote:
Uh, no. If I actually saw the duct tape while the skater was skating, I'd
be whining about that too!
TCAXEL
>Uh, no. If I actually saw the duct tape while the skater was skating, I'd
be whining about that too!
Uh, no. You necessarily wouldn't. Per your previous post: "if Orser skated
with duct tape on his skates I'd probably feel I had to defend him from all the
varying standards remains. Off with their heads!... unless it's Orsers.
Lesson over.
TCAXEL (giving the lesson that sometimes it's not nice to counter a humorous
post simply to argue when you contradict yourself in the process)
Podium99
now your talking /the sooner the better
djk...@nospam.com
Perhaps you should practice what you preach, Podium?
Or better yet, go back to school?
Sheesh.
--------------------------------
Have a good one!
David