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an hour of Liberty (junior men FS final)

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Lorrie Kim

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Jul 17, 2004, 10:25:25 PM7/17/04
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We did it! My husband and I put the baby in the car seat for her
first significant road trip and made it to the University of Delaware so I
could see one hour of the Liberty Open. It took us 90 minutes longer to
get out of the house than I expected, but we still made it exactly on time
to see the junior men's freeskating final, which was the event I chose.
I started laughing in culture shock as we turned into the Pond's driveway.
After 33 days of Iris-centric life, the sudden contrast made it clearer
than ever that skating is a truly bizarre little world. :-) Teeny little
girls in full makeup and their hassled SUV-driving moms! Rows of kids in
rink jackets yelling out the same three or four phrases of encouragement
to their rinkmates! Bebe sequins! Fake Murakami accessories!
Overcrowded lobbies, jostling in front of results, Johnny Weir with
ever-stylish hair, clusters of kids eating nasty rink food! I felt I had
been away from skating for five years; I was startled to see that the
usual coaches miraculously had not aged at all during that interval. Tom
Zakrajsek, handsome as ever; the marzipan twins, Mitchell and Johanssen,
doing their unconscious mirror dances at the boards while their skaters
compete. I packed a summer's worth of skate-watching into that one hour.
My husband hung out in the car, changing the baby's diapers and listening
to bluegrass.
Stephen Carriere was the first one up. I couldn't take notes as I
had just shown Iris to a skatefan friend and came in a little late, but I
remember a centered combination spin, nice series of single jumps directly
into 3toe-2toe, and a well-focused entry into a good 3lutz-2toe.
Michael Solonoski: 3lutz fall out, 3salchow? (couldn't see),
3axel fall, falling leaf straightline steps new-looking, butterfly sit,
2loop (oops) followed by 3loop-2loop fallout, 2flip, 2salchow, flying
camel sit, 3lutz hands down, 2axel beauty, circular steps, sit change.
This will be an effective program when he hits the jumps; it has potential
to build nicely.
Mark McLeod skated to "The Matrix" in black with neon green veins
radiating from his right shoulder. He looked undertrained, yet somehow he
clearly conveyed that he has immense basic talent. 2axel folded, 3lutz
fall but so leisurely and good in the air, 3flip fall slow entry, flying
camel with good arch, 3salchow, spirals not steady but he can clearly do
them steadily, combination spin good careful and centered, spirals good.
3toe stepout, spiral into 3flip, straightline steps, split falling leaf,
2axel fall still wrapped, butterfly sit ending with a not very committed
shotgun position. He skates big and relaxed, Kulik-like.
Craig Ratterree: was he this good always? Or was I unduly
influenced by the memory of his droning music choice last year? He
started out with 3axel-2toe big! nice! followed by a 3loop that was just
as senior-looking. Good speed. 3lutz-2toe, 3salchow fall (should've had
it), straightline with good potential for so early in the season with good
character and pacing and variety, a spin (I missed it) including camel
position, 3flip, 3toe, sit change sit not as good as his jumps, steps into
3flip fall, 2axel, one-foot stars with hands held behind his back right
into a combination spin with hands still clasped into a big death drop.
The choreography for the program isn't fully complex, but some stretches
of it are really well developed, such as the ending few moves.
Jordan Miller: sharp poses and positions throughout the program,
good. 3lutz-2toe, 3flip (slight wrap), 3axel underrotate 2ft, flying sit,
3lutz turn on landing, 3flip-2toe, outside inside spread eagles into 2axel
nice coverage and smoothness, 3salchow with conscientious lift up into the
jump, traveling camels into camel spin, straightline steps, 3toe, final
combination spin had good speed and an inside edge position.
Traighe Rouse: the first half of this program had me thinking in
exclamations. Future national champion! Like Paul Wylie hybridized with
the best qualities of Elvis Stojko, elegant and controlled but explosive
and feral! Then the program started disintegrating and he took hard,
painful falls onto his side that sometimes took more than a moment for
recovery. Opened with a bracing and beautiful hitch kick, karate-like
quick and lethal. 2axel huge stepout, 3lutz-3toe, outside spread eagle,
forward lunge on music, 3salchow. Ugly fall on 3flip, ouch. Camel
combination spin interesting variation with him facing down and holding
his leg out at an angle -- abductor muscles, wow. 3lutz textbook, 3loop
another painful fall. Choreographed salute to audience somehow
reassuring. But nope -- 3toe fall, ouch ouch. Flying camel, straightline
steps, split mazurka, 2axel fall on side again. Ouch! Death drop sit.
Amazing spins, considering that they followed such drastic falls.
Jeremy Abbott: Safri Duo is _such_ great skating music. 3lutz
tilted forward fall, underrotated 3axel stepout 2toe, whole body steps,
3flip stepout, flying camel sit twist completely gorgeous, 3loop noisy
fall, 1axel, 3salchow, flying sit, 3toe-2loop great flow and speed in line
with preceding steps, waxel, combination spin. His black costume had red
and white caret-shaped tape appliques that accented his rotations, looking
like seagulls skimming the ice surface when he jumped.
Steven Elefante: costume tailored to look like t-shirt and jeans.
3loop, 2axel, 3lutz foot down 2toe, cursory steps 2flip, flying camel
upright. Then a section I found ineffective; I blame the music, a dreary
trumpet solo to "A Place for Us" with an odd tempo that didn't help an
unmemorably choreographed serpentine step sequence, followed by 3salchow
with hitch on landing and I think a camel spin. A music re-edit might
help things along! Then the Freedom blades spiral-on-heels to 1 lutz,
split flip into 1toe, circular steps, 1axel.
Steven Pottenger: 2axel, fast stroking, 3lutz turn 2toe, flying
camel, 3flip fall, 3loop fall out, camel, 3salchow hand down, 3toe-2toe,
straightline steps, 1axel, sit change. A couple of hard balance checks in
this program. Overall I found the program's look and choreography to be
limited by a self-consciously "masculine" aesthetic and thought it would
have benefited from a bit more by way of expression.
Doug Razzano: 2axel integrated right into his pacing, 3toe-2toe
just as integrated, 3lutz fall, flying camel, 3flip fall, outside spread
eagle, 3loop folded, beautiful sit spin but ugh, again a music passage
with a soporific beat that I did not think was helpful at all to the
overall program. 3salchow may have touched down, 1lutz, 2axel 2toe, steps
into spin. By the end of the program, I was distracted by the slow and
ponderous tempo, which I found to be at odds with the skater's natural
rhythm; I think he can take, and deserves, a better beat.

As soon as the event was over, I dashed out to the parking lot to
find husband and baby looking peaceful. I'm really glad and grateful I
got to go, and even gladder to be home now.

Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com


WIsil

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Jul 18, 2004, 10:19:43 AM7/18/04
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Good for you! Thanks for the report.

-Wendy :)

sk8ervic

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Jul 19, 2004, 4:07:17 AM7/19/04
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Betcha huuby heard better music in the car :)


"Lorrie Kim" <mjdo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:pclKc.2362$f4....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...

Rex

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Jul 19, 2004, 9:12:15 PM7/19/04
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On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 02:25:25 +0000, Lorrie Kim wrote:

Lorrie, tell me what I am missing not seeing figure skating live. I know
it's different from seeing it on TV, but I have only seen a few shows,
like SOI and COI. What do you feel is the biggest difference from live VS
TV? Other than the fact that you don't get to see all of the skaters?

Bev Johnston

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Jul 20, 2004, 10:14:56 AM7/20/04
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Rex <Obero...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2004.07.20....@comcast.net>...

Hi, Rex!

I'm not Lorrie, but I can tell you something that you don't get on TV
or from competitions like SOI or COI... The energy and excitement
from the crowd. Yes, you can hear them cheering on tv, but there's a
certain electricity that comes from watching a live competition. I
had the first opportunity to see Michelle Kwan in a "real" competition
at Nationals last January. I literally got chills on the back of my
neck when she launched into her final footwork pass in the long
program. The crowd was on their feet and literally roaring at this
point. I'm getting chills now just thinking about it...

Bev

CurtAdams

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Jul 20, 2004, 11:57:17 AM7/20/04
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Bev writes:

>I'm not Lorrie, but I can tell you something that you don't get on TV
>or from competitions like SOI or COI... The energy and excitement
>from the crowd. Yes, you can hear them cheering on tv, but there's a
>certain electricity that comes from watching a live competition. I
>had the first opportunity to see Michelle Kwan in a "real" competition
>at Nationals last January. I literally got chills on the back of my
>neck when she launched into her final footwork pass in the long
>program. The crowd was on their feet and literally roaring at this
>point. I'm getting chills now just thinking about it...

Yeah, Kwan really has a way with the audience. At the end you can't
even hear her music and you have to stand up or you can't see!
Cohen had it in the short but not in the long. I was at a loss to explain
why - something was lacking even before the errors.

Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
"It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson

johns

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Jul 20, 2004, 12:08:19 PM7/20/04
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Tell Hubbie that Doom III is officially out August 2.

johns


Chris Hall

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Jul 20, 2004, 1:51:35 PM7/20/04
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In <f9491328.04072...@posting.google.com>, on 07/20/04
at 07:14 AM, hiding...@aol.com (Bev Johnston) said:


>I'm not Lorrie, but I can tell you something that you don't get on TV or
>from competitions like SOI or COI... The energy and excitement from the
>crowd. Yes, you can hear them cheering on tv, but there's a certain
>electricity that comes from watching a live competition. I had the first
>opportunity to see Michelle Kwan in a "real" competition at Nationals
>last January. I literally got chills on the back of my neck when she
>launched into her final footwork pass in the long program. The crowd was
>on their feet and literally roaring at this point. I'm getting chills
>now just thinking about it...

>Bev

Now take that crowd reaction, multiply by about 10, and you've got some
idea what synchro is like live.

--
Chris M. Hall, Associate Research Scientist
Dept. of Geological Sciences, University of Michigan

Perfection is the enemy of the good

Rex

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Jul 20, 2004, 5:59:38 PM7/20/04
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 07:14:56 -0700, Bev Johnston wrote:


> Hi, Rex!
>
> I'm not Lorrie, but I can tell you something that you don't get on TV
> or from competitions like SOI or COI... The energy and excitement
> from the crowd. Yes, you can hear them cheering on tv, but there's a
> certain electricity that comes from watching a live competition. I
> had the first opportunity to see Michelle Kwan in a "real" competition
> at Nationals last January. I literally got chills on the back of my
> neck when she launched into her final footwork pass in the long
> program. The crowd was on their feet and literally roaring at this
> point. I'm getting chills now just thinking about it...
>
> Bev

Thanks for the feedback, Bev. One day, I will get to go, I have promised
myself this.

Sandra Loosemore

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Jul 20, 2004, 8:01:44 PM7/20/04
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Rex <Obero...@comcast.net> writes:

> Lorrie, tell me what I am missing not seeing figure skating live. I know
> it's different from seeing it on TV, but I have only seen a few shows,
> like SOI and COI. What do you feel is the biggest difference from live VS
> TV? Other than the fact that you don't get to see all of the skaters?

I'm not Lorrie, but for me, the biggest difference between live and TV
is that live you can get a much better appreciation for the speed, ice
coverage, and edge quality of the skaters. Some skaters look better
on TV than live because they spend so much time posing in front of the
cameras, but live you tend to be more impressed by skaters who fly
around the ice and make it all look smooth and effortless. Live, it's
also easier to take in aspects of program construction -- are they
getting all the way into the ends and corners of the ice? Or is the
program laid out with too much repetitive circling around center ice?
Are they using varied placement of the elements or are all the jumps
set up straight down the middle of the rink and all the spins at
center ice?

Of course, another benefit of watching live skating is that you don't
have to listen to the commentators yakking away during the
performance. :-P

-Sandra the cynic

Rex

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Jul 20, 2004, 9:17:02 PM7/20/04
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 00:01:44 +0000, Sandra Loosemore wrote:

> Rex <Obero...@comcast.net> writes:
> Of course, another benefit of watching live skating is that you don't
> have to listen to the commentators yakking away during the
> performance. :-P
>
> -Sandra the cynic

Thanks, Sandra. This reminds me of Nat'ls this year during Jahnke's LP,
Dick and Terry blabbed and blabbed. I love Brazilian music, but could not
really hear it because of this. Then, Ryan peeled of a very good "Tano"
Lutz, and they were silent. I don't understand how commentating works in
figure skating, or how it is supposed to work.

Amy or Brian

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Jul 20, 2004, 10:12:55 PM7/20/04
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"Rex" <Obero...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.21....@comcast.net...

I'd say Dick and Peggy, not to mention Scott and Sandra, are all pretty good
examples of how commentary is *not* supposed to work! They all have their
personal favorites and tend to blather on about how "wonderful" or "special"
each skater is, rather than analyzing the programs (which is what I'd want a
good commentator to do). A lot of the regulars on this newsgroup could
probably do a much better job commentating.

My fantasy commentary, geared towards people who don't know much about
skating but would like to know more, particularly about why skaters are
placed the way they are, would include the following during a typical
program:

-identification of jumps, traditional spin positions (layback, scratch,
camel, etc), and MITF, as well as what makes all these moves better or worse
(edges, long jump set-up, spin centering or lack thereof, etc)
-identification of spirals, with some mention of what's most important in a
spiral (rather than BS about beautiful free-leg position all the time)
-choreography
-analysis of the skater's relative strengths and weaknesses, with mention of
which don't show up on TV

Additionally, I'd have the commentators talk about at some point in the
broadcast:

-required elements
-the scoring system
-handicapping the field
-trends we're seeing this season

It'll probably never happen, but I can dream, can't I?

-Amy


Ellen Arnold

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Jul 20, 2004, 11:59:55 PM7/20/04
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in article e_WdnRGDWbS...@comcast.com, Amy or Brian at
am...@NOSPAM.dot.post.harvard.edu wrote on 7/20/04 8:12 PM:


> A lot of the regulars on this newsgroup could probably do a much better job
commentating.
>

OMG, can you just imagine the utter bliss of watching an event with
commentary by, say, Janet Swan Hill and Sandra Loosemore? Plus, you could
get -- as a bonus -- Janet's marvelous deconstruction of the costumery
involved.

One can only hope . . .

ellen

Rex

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Jul 21, 2004, 12:07:45 AM7/21/04
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:12:55 -0400, Amy or Brian wrote:

> I'd say Dick and Peggy, not to mention Scott and Sandra, are all pretty good
> examples of how commentary is *not* supposed to work! They all have their
> personal favorites and tend to blather on about how "wonderful" or "special"
> each skater is, rather than analyzing the programs (which is what I'd want a
> good commentator to do). A lot of the regulars on this newsgroup could
> probably do a much better job commentating.

True. I think I'd rather hear the commentary *after* the programs, maybe
show two or three skaters in succession, the comment and compare the
programs. Don't really wanna give up dotty Uncle Dick's sassy statements,
though. I like to hear the music the skaters are skating to in order to
see if they are interpreting it. Connecting to it. Sometimes it's hard
to do that when the commentators are, well, commentating. And they are
notorious for doing this when the lower-ranked skaters are skating.

> My fantasy commentary, geared towards people who don't know much about
> skating but would like to know more, particularly about why skaters are
> placed the way they are, would include the following during a typical
> program:
>
> -identification of jumps, traditional spin positions (layback, scratch,
> camel, etc), and MITF, as well as what makes all these moves better or
> worse (edges, long jump set-up, spin centering or lack thereof, etc)
> -identification of spirals, with some mention of what's most important
> in a spiral (rather than BS about beautiful free-leg position all the
> time) -choreography

> -analysis of the skater's relative strengths and weaknesses, with
> mention of which don't show up on TV

Susie Wynn and Peter Carruthers do a good job of this, rather than
out-and-out trashing, I think. They are great at 4Cs.



> Additionally, I'd have the commentators talk about at some point in the
> broadcast:
>
> -required elements
> -the scoring system

And this new scoring system will need explaining. I still don't
understand it.

> -handicapping the field
> -trends we're seeing this season
>
> It'll probably never happen, but I can dream, can't I?
>
> -Amy

And most of what I learned about skating was from Dick,
Peggy and Scott Hamilton. Scott does get a little hyper. But I preferred
his commentary at the Olys more than at the pro comps, because of his bias
toward SOI skaters. I couldn't stand it when he gushed over his cronies
when some of their skating wasn't that great.

Sandra Loosemore

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Jul 21, 2004, 6:56:46 AM7/21/04
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Ellen Arnold <ellen...@sugarloaf.net> writes:

> OMG, can you just imagine the utter bliss of watching an event with
> commentary by, say, Janet Swan Hill and Sandra Loosemore?

Well, I dunno about Janet, but I'm sure that anybody who was forced to
listen to my froggy speaking (croaking?) voice for any length of time
would be ready to throw out their TV. :-P

-Sandra the cynic

Sandra Loosemore

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Jul 21, 2004, 7:08:32 AM7/21/04
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Rex <Obero...@comcast.net> writes:

> And most of what I learned about skating was from Dick,
> Peggy and Scott Hamilton. Scott does get a little hyper. But I preferred
> his commentary at the Olys more than at the pro comps, because of his bias
> toward SOI skaters. I couldn't stand it when he gushed over his cronies
> when some of their skating wasn't that great.

Personally, I didn't think Scott's gushing at pro competitions was
aimed to prop up his SOI buddies as much as pro skating in general.
E.g., he never gushed about anybody as much as he gushed about Oksana
Baiul, and she wasn't touring with SOI at the time. It always seemed
to me that he was trying to exaggerate the technical accomplishments
of the pro skaters and brush off their errors in order to preserve the
illusion that the pro competitions themselves were legitimate. If
anybody had admitted in public that the competitions were meaningless,
that the judging or rules were rigged to favor certain skaters, that
the overall standard of skating was less impressive than what the
eligible skaters were doing, the whole house of cards would have come
tumbling down. That's why he was so merciless on Nancy Kerrigan when
she made the mistake of saying on camera that the emperor had no clothes.

Hamilton also played SOI favorites in his commentary on eligible
skating. E.g., prior Hamilton gushing all over them at the 1992
Olympics, nobody in the US knew much of anything about Hough & Ladret.
Big surprise to see them signed on SOI the next year, huh?

-Sandra the cynic

janet swan hill

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Jul 21, 2004, 9:26:11 AM7/21/04
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>Personally, I didn't think Scott's gushing at pro competitions was
>aimed to prop up his SOI buddies as much as pro skating in general.
>E.g., he never gushed about anybody as much as he gushed about Oksana
>Baiul, and she wasn't touring with SOI at the time.

Well, Scott went into hysterical transports about Baiul before she went pro.


janet

Bev Johnston

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Jul 21, 2004, 12:33:26 PM7/21/04
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curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) wrote in message news:<20040720115717...@mb-m04.aol.com>...

> >
> Yeah, Kwan really has a way with the audience. At the end you can't
> even hear her music and you have to stand up or you can't see!
> Cohen had it in the short but not in the long. I was at a loss to explain
> why - something was lacking even before the errors.
>
> Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
> "It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson


I know exactly what you mean with Cohen! She was absolutely electric
in the short, but she seemed to really be focusing inside of herself
during the long. Maybe it was nerves... who knows?

Bev

Lorrie Kim

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Jul 21, 2004, 12:49:49 PM7/21/04
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"Sandra Loosemore" <san...@frogsonice.com> wrote in message
news:m3d62qdy...@dartfrog.localdomain...

> Rex <Obero...@comcast.net> writes:
>
> > Lorrie, tell me what I am missing not seeing figure skating live. I
know
> > it's different from seeing it on TV, but I have only seen a few shows,
> > like SOI and COI. What do you feel is the biggest difference from live
VS
> > TV? Other than the fact that you don't get to see all of the skaters?
>
> I'm not Lorrie

I am Lorrie <g>, or what used to be Lorrie before my brain was commandeered
by All Things Baby. Basically, for me, in live skating you get to see what
the judges see (or at least the back of what they get to see). Flow and
command of the moment in real time are probably the two biggest factors for
me that become reflected in the scoring but might not make it to TV. When
you see the whole field, you understand better how difficult skating is, and
why the top people are considered to be so good. You get a better
appeciation for program construction and how certain choices can mask or
highlight a skater's strengths. If there's magic, you feel it -- like
Johnny Weir's "Zhivago" at last year's Liberty when he was still persona non
grata with the USFSA -- and you understand how rarely magic happens. For me
the whole experience is bound up with seeing friends, listening to wicked
commentary from people like Sandra (that froggy voice can deliver some real
howlers that have you strangling to stay quiet during programs), seeing the
human little kidness of these skaters year after year and watching them
mature into fantastic young adults.

Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com


Rex

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Jul 21, 2004, 8:10:44 PM7/21/04
to
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:49:49 +0000, Lorrie Kim wrote:


> I am Lorrie <g>, or what used to be Lorrie before my brain was commandeered
> by All Things Baby. Basically, for me, in live skating you get to see what
> the judges see (or at least the back of what they get to see). Flow and
> command of the moment in real time are probably the two biggest factors for
> me that become reflected in the scoring but might not make it to TV. When
> you see the whole field, you understand better how difficult skating is, and
> why the top people are considered to be so good. You get a better
> appeciation for program construction and how certain choices can mask or
> highlight a skater's strengths. If there's magic, you feel it -- like
> Johnny Weir's "Zhivago" at last year's Liberty when he was still persona non
> grata with the USFSA -- and you understand how rarely magic happens. For me
> the whole experience is bound up with seeing friends, listening to wicked
> commentary from people like Sandra (that froggy voice can deliver some real
> howlers that have you strangling to stay quiet during programs), seeing the
> human little kidness of these skaters year after year and watching them
> mature into fantastic young adults.
>
> Lorrie Kim
> lor...@plover.com

Well, *there* she is. I know, Iris comes first. But thanks for
responding. :-D

How long was the competition. How was Weiss' new program?

Bbarlou

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Jul 21, 2004, 10:13:25 PM7/21/04
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"That's why he was so merciless on Nancy Kerrigan when she made the mistake of
saying on camera that the emperor had no clothes."

Please explain when and where she said this, exactly what she said and who she
was referring to, and in what context.

Sandra Loosemore

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Jul 21, 2004, 10:23:13 PM7/21/04
to
"Lorrie Kim" <mjdo...@earthlink.net> writes:

> For me
> the whole experience is bound up with seeing friends, listening to wicked
> commentary from people like Sandra (that froggy voice can deliver some real
> howlers that have you strangling to stay quiet during programs),

Aw, shucks. I think Lorrie exaggerates. I try to confine my snarky
remarks to warmup and after the skaters are finished with their
programs, instead of talking while they're performing. :-P

> seeing the
> human little kidness of these skaters year after year and watching them
> mature into fantastic young adults.

Yup, this is one of the best things about going to club competitions
and regionals, where you can chat with the skaters and their parents
if you're so inclined, so that it feeds into the seeing friends aspect
of it after a while.

-Sandra the cynic

Sandra Loosemore

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Jul 21, 2004, 10:35:31 PM7/21/04
to
bba...@aol.com (Bbarlou) writes:

At some pro competition in 1994 or 1995 where she skated poorly,
Kerrigan was interviewed backstage and said she had no motivation for
trying to skate her best because the competitions didn't mean anything
and she got the same appearance fee no matter how she skated.
Hamilton, who was commentating at the event, ripped into her for what
he saw as her unprofessional attitude. At that time, CBS was trying
to present their pro events as serious competitions and the fact that
skaters were getting paid appearance fees instead of prize money was
kind of a dirty little secret.

-Sandra the cynic

Bbarlou

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Jul 22, 2004, 5:36:44 AM7/22/04
to
> "That's why he was so merciless on Nancy Kerrigan when she made the
> mistake of saying on camera that the emperor had no clothes."

With reference to the above, I asked the following question:

"Please explain when and where she said this, exactly what she said and who
she was referring to, and in what context."

Sandra replied: "At some pro competition in 1994 or 1995 where she skated


poorly,
Kerrigan was interviewed backstage and said she had no motivation for trying to
skate her best because the competitions didn't mean anything and she got the
same appearance fee no matter how she skated.
Hamilton, who was commentating at the event, ripped into her for what he saw as
her unprofessional attitude. At that time, CBS was trying to present their pro
events as serious competitions and the fact that
skaters were getting paid appearance fees instead of prize money was kind of a
dirty little secret."

Yes, I remember that comment and I remember thinking that it was terrible that
Nancy, who was completely unprepared for whatever the contest was, admitted her
only incentive to do well was the money she would get. I think that at the
time I knew that the skaters received performance fees, but I also think that
there was some prize money for the winners. I do not remember what Scott said
(bathroom break perhaps) and would appreciate if Sandra or some other
knowledgeable person would post his quote.


jimhodges1

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Jul 23, 2004, 10:23:52 PM7/23/04
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Sandra Loosemore <san...@frogsonice.com> wrote in message news:<m3d62qdy...@dartfrog.localdomain>...

Sandra

How right you are. Live skating is so much better than watching it on
TV. I was breathless at watching the great speed. No comentators is
also wonderful.

Ruth Lafler

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Jul 23, 2004, 11:18:02 PM7/23/04
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"Rex" <Obero...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.07.20....@comcast.net...

Don't promise, just do it.

The other things you get from seeing skating live: the speed, including a
good sense of relative speed and ice coverage; and the power -- a lot of the
explosiveness doesn't translate to the screen. And then there's the opposite
of the Kwan frenzy: the stillness when a skater casts a spell over the crowd
until they can hardly breathe.

And finally: you don't have to listen to commentators nattering away. That
alone is worth the price of admission.

I suggest you scrape together the time and money and head off to Pittsburgh
for Skate America. Skate America is a good "starter" competition because
it's not too big: the fields are small and it's a "single track" (as opposed
to Nationals or even a club comp, where there are multiple levels of
competition going on at the same time). Many of the skaters will be familiar
to you, so you'll have some frame of reference for what you're watching.

Go, and spend the entire day in the arena, from the first practice session
to the final medal ceremony. And during practice, find some friendly,
knowledgeable, patient person to sit with and help you develop your
observation skills. Just be careful, because you never know when one of
those friendly, knowledgeable, patient people is the parent, sister or
friend of the skater you just critiqued.

--Ruth


Ruth Lafler

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Jul 23, 2004, 11:29:43 PM7/23/04
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"Ellen Arnold" <ellen...@sugarloaf.net> wrote in message
news:BD23465B.4970%ellen...@sugarloaf.net...

I've had the blissful experience of sitting through days of practice
sessions with Janet -- four Skate Americas in a row. You could sell tickets.
Honest. One year I got to hang with Janet and room with Lorrie and Sandra.
Who needs sleep?

--Ruth <of course the most silly fun I had was the year I roomed with Peg
and Karen and we adopted a couple of other rssifers and stayed up all night
eating ice cream and making fun of everyone's foibles... I think my sides
still hurt from laughing>


viennese

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Jul 29, 2004, 9:50:19 PM7/29/04
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I'm not lorrie or sandra, and don't profess to be any kind of expert,
but i've been fortunate to see live skating at a few worlds,
europeans, and canadians as well as regional/club competitions.

One of the most thrilling things about seeing top level skaters live
-- as many have pointed out -- is the speed at which they skate. The
CBC and ABC television have gotten so sophisticated in their editing
of programmes that you can't tell sometimes who really moves out, and
who doesn't.

But when you see a competitor who takes just a couple of strokes to
fly across the ice: wow! When you see a double or triple axel that
seems to cover, from the step in to the outflowing edge, half of the
ice surface, it is absolutely breaktaking.

Another astonishing thing is the HEIGHT of some of these jumps. I was
lucky enough to see Midori Ito compete in 1988-1989, and then meet her
after the competition. She was so small, even on her skates. Yet I
swear she cleared the top of the boards when she was at the peak of
her jump. Many of the male skaters appear to do that, too. That is
something you cannot see unless you are sitting at ice level.

Television does fine job of conveying the intricacies of the ice dance
event, especially the compulsory dances.

It is extremely hard for the the arena audience to tell how close
together a dance team is -- or how good their leg line is -- when the
team is way down the other end of the rink. The camera's relentless
focus lets you see who's fudging those little details. (Of course, it
also reveals all the horrors of crazy costumes and overdone
makeup...which in a big arena, may not look so bad)

However, you don't get to appreciate the speed of the free dances,
which can truly soar across the ice.

JDChronicler

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Jul 30, 2004, 9:16:01 PM7/30/04
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When I saw SOI live what really amazed me was Paul Wylie's ice coverage. I had
no concept of how much ice he covered on TV. With close ups you rarely get to
see the whole arena.

Shomeret

Ruth Lafler

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Jul 31, 2004, 1:38:36 AM7/31/04
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"viennese" <vienn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e9db0a6e.04072...@posting.google.com...

> Television does fine job of conveying the intricacies of the ice dance
> event, especially the compulsory dances.
>
> It is extremely hard for the the arena audience to tell how close
> together a dance team is -- or how good their leg line is -- when the
> team is way down the other end of the rink. The camera's relentless
> focus lets you see who's fudging those little details.

One year I was watching worlds on my computer on a screen capture refreshed
every five seconds. When watching the pairs, it was quite striking to note
that as the competition advanced from the lower-ranked skaters to the
higher, the number of times the freeze-frame caught the pair in poor unison
decreased significantly, until by the time they got to the top four, instead
of revealing how poor the unison was, it demonstrated how good it was.
Television definitely has its place. Probably the best experience I had was
worlds in Vancouver, where because of the tape delay, we would head back to
the hotel or sports bar after watching the competition live and watch it
again, just hours later, on TV.

--Ruth


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