LADIES FREE MY FIRST THOUGHTS
Karl Jolly
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
1. Lipinski
2. Kwan
3. Chen
4. Butryskaya
5. Slutskaya
6. Gusmeroli
WOW! WOW! WOW! al last an olympic figure skating final worthy of the
name. I watched the wholething live and must admit the first three
groups were disappointing Bobek didn't take the opportunity to show us
what she can do 17th again
I'm sure there'll be never ending arguments on the ng but for me the
judges got it right tonight. After Michelle had skated I thought she
would have it, just a slightly scratchy landing on the flip and so
beautiful to watch.
When Tara stepped onto the ice there was just something so special about
the way she skated. Technical difficulty apart - two clean triple triple
combinations! she has matured so much over the last year. It was her
obvious sheer pleasure at being there which gave her that extra edge.
I want to take nothing away from either girl and hope not to see to much
backbiting on the ng but I guess that's asking too much. I especially
must applaud Michelle for her graciousness in defeat.
I cried when Lulu skated just to see her back. I'm watching the
presentation of medals as I type and she'e crying again (in actual fact
they are all crying and the haven't even played the anthem yet!) Now
there is a biography I would love to read.
Butryskaya(sp?) fought for everything so hard and proved that she can
overcome her nerves maybe she could talk to Laetitia (not one triple or
double axel landed!)
Slutskaya skated beautifully but I don't remember seeing an axel in the
programme, I'll have to review it on tape. Good to see her back on fform
when it really counts. The commentary team says she has skated awfully
in all the practices.
I've said before that I'm not a big fan of Bonaly but the back flip was
a great way of sticking to the judges!!
I missed Gusmeroli as I was on the school run but hope that she will be
shown in the highlights this evening.
Revjoelle
>1. Lipinski
>2. Kwan
>3. Chen
WOAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This girl never fails to amaze me. I did not think she had a chance at the
Nationals last year. I didn't think she had a chance at the Olympics. I
thought Michelle had it in the bag.
Woah. Can't wait to see it tonight
I guess Scott Hamilton called it right when he said those two were closer than
everyone was thinking.
My only regret is the rash of Michelle wuz Robbed and Tara bashing that will
come out of it. But that's the price of winning.
Now I wish I'd waited to see it on TV.
Woah. Again.
I do feel bad for Michelle--so close. But she is young--I do hope she stays
eligible. Actually I hope they both stay eligible and keep skating--trading
titles back and forth over the next few years --setting a wonderful standard of
two different but excellent standards for ladies skating for the next few
years.
And I'm so happy for Chen Lu.
joelle
"Life is an adventure...it's not meant to be easy and I learned its not
supposed to be fair. It's what you make of it, where you take it, how you deal
with it."
Scott Hamilton
Revjoelle
>I've said before that I'm not a big fan of Bonaly but the back flip was a
great way of sticking to the judges!!
Did she do that in her free skate? Well I should say naughty naughty --but I
can't ;-) -- it beats her 94 podium behavior.
Joelle
KNetAnnex
>My only regret is the rash of Michelle wuz Robbed and Tara bashing that will
>come out of it. But that's the price of winning.
And the fact that Michelle will never get the respect she deserves does not
bother you in the least?
Karl Jolly
Revjoelle wrote:
> >I've said before that I'm not a big fan of Bonaly but the back flip was a
> great way of sticking to the judges!!
>
> Did she do that in her free skate? Well I should say naughty naughty --but I
> can't ;-) -- it beats her 94 podium behavior.
>
Yep she sure did! She had not had a good skate so had nothing to lose. Most of her
triples were well under rotated. The crowd loved it!
Benjamin Smith
Why won't she? This will make Michelle focus on technical skating more,
more difficult jumps. Michelle may have a lot to do with Tara's much
improved presentation and artistry and Tara will inspire Michelle to do
tougher jumps.
Michelle has to think about preparing for worlds. Cry a bit, get support
from friends, family, and fans. Keep looking at the silver medal and the
competitor in her will want to win every competition from now on.
Especially against Tara.
I did not see it but from what I here although Michelle did not make any
big errors, she did not skate on her highest level. Tara did. That's the
way it is. Tara did not skate on her highest level at Nationals and
Michelle did. Maybe it will go back and forth. Good for sports, skating,
fans of skating.
I miscalculated a bit. Tara's for real. She's tough. Her next challenge is
when she grows and body changes. But I think she'll do fine.
For MIchelle fans like me this is a big disappointment. But, congratulate
Tara for doing her best under very difficult pressure. This does not really
take away from Michelle.
And Chen Lu. Wow.
Ben S.
Benjamin Smith
On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 9:06 AM, Revjoelle <mailto:revj...@aol.com> wrote:
>Did she do that in her free skate? Well I should say naughty naughty
--but I
>can't ;-) -- it beats her 94 podium behavior.
>
Also didn't Scott do an illegal backflip in a performance in 1996? or early
97?
Ben S.
Louis Epstein
Revjoelle (revj...@aol.com) wrote:
: >I've said before that I'm not a big fan of Bonaly but the back flip was a
: great way of sticking to the judges!!
: Did she do that in her free skate? Well I should say naughty naughty --but I
: can't ;-) -- it beats her 94 podium behavior.
Yes,after she'd blown it otherwise she stuck in a one-foot backflip.
AmyBippy
>My only regret is the rash of Michelle wuz Robbed and Tara bashing that will
>come out of it. But that's the price of winning.
Actually, I have noticed more Michelle bashing than anything. Quite a few
people seem almost thrilled to see Michelle get beaten for the gold. Seems she
should be ashamed to have only won a silver, according to a lot of folks on
this group. Hmmm...
AmyBippy
Revjoelle
>And the fact that Michelle will never get the respect she deserves does not
bother you in the least?
What are you talking about? Michelle has loads of respect in the figure
skating community. I respect her. I admire her. If you are saying she didn't
get the respect she deserved because she won the silver--well that sounds like
"she wuz robbed" thinking to me.
Revjoelle
>Also didn't Scott do an illegal backflip in a performance in 1996? or early
97?
>
Scott has done that in pro ams quite a few times. Once early on he did it
because he honestly didn't realize he couldn't. And then after that he did it
just to be pesky.
Of course a pro am and an Olympics aren't exactly the same thing--but I have to
say--I'm looking forward to Surya's act. That can only be good for her pro
career.
KNetAnnex
>What are you talking about? Michelle has loads of respect in the figure
>skating community. I respect her. I admire her. If you are saying she
>didn't
>get the respect she deserved because she won the silver--well that sounds
>like
>"she wuz robbed" thinking to me.
>
>
We all know - skating fans all - that Michelle Kwan is respected. But in the
real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold. Silver is nothing. No
medal is nothing. Without that piece of hardware, Michelle will not get the
respect she deserves from the world as a whole. That may not matter to her.
That may not matter to most of the true blue skating fans. But it matters to
me.
YelloSub1
Legends are made over time.
Revjoelle
>But in the
>real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold.
Nonsense. In the real world what matters is what you do with with what life
deals you. Look at Oksana Biaul. That gold medal didn't bring her happiness
did it? Rosalynn Sumners says now she is glad that she won the silver because
she would not have been able to handle what comes with a gold medal.
> Michelle will not get the respect she deserves from the world as a whole.
That may not matter to her. That may not matter to most of the true blue
skating fans. But it matters to me.
Nobody needs the kind of respect that only sees value in gold. You sell
Michelle short to think that she suffers for the loss of respect from people
who are that shallow.
Michelle Kwan is a hardworking, extremely talented, well disciplined, well
grounded young woman. She does not need a gold medal to succeed in life. She
probably won't make *quite* as much money without a gold medal but she'll make
enough. She will survive the disappointment of taking home a silver when she
was expecting gold because she already has a strong character and she will make
sure this makes her even stronger. She'll be fine.
Tara...I am a bit concerned about her parents making bad decisions for her.
I'm afraid they may pressure her to go pro now and that would not be a good
thing.
Jusandra
>>My only regret is the rash of Michelle wuz Robbed and Tara bashing that will
>>come out of it. But that's the price of winning.
>
>bother you in the least?
Wow, it's started already, and it hasn't been aired! I hope Tara has her flame
retardant suit for when she returns to the states.
WTG to all the ladies! WOW!!! :-)
Jenny
e!
Yellow Sub you are very insightful
In article <19980220151...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, yell...@aol.com
says...
>
>Legends are made over time.
>
>
Jeff
On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:49:31 +0000, Karl Jolly <karl....@virgin.net>
wrote:
(snipped)
>
>When Tara stepped onto the ice there was just something so special about
>the way she skated. Technical difficulty apart - two clean triple triple
>combinations! she has matured so much over the last year. It was her
>obvious sheer pleasure at being there which gave her that extra edge.
2 triple-triple from Tara? Amazing! Maybe this will push Michelle to
get in a combination of her own. I was hoping that Michelle would
win, but it sounded that Tara skated the program of her life and
justly deserve the win. I hope neither of them will take the Baiul
route and retire so soon; there's so much Tara and Michelle can offer.
World's this year will be interesting; if Tara keeps this level of
skating up, she will be hard to beat.
Jeff
(snipped)
Kathy Pascoe
Karl Jolly wrote:
>
> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
> S
>
> P
>
> A
>
> C
>
> E
>
> 2. Kwan
> 3. Chen
> 5. Slutskaya
> 6. Gusmeroli
>
> WOW! WOW! WOW! al last an olympic figure skating final worthy of the
> name. I watched the wholething live and must admit the first three
> groups were disappointing Bobek didn't take the opportunity to show us
> what she can do 17th again
I only saw the final group, who were wonderful. How sad for Nicole.
(snip really great summary, with which I totally agree).
Thanks for your even handed and sensible review.
--
Kathy Pascoe ~ kpa...@ford.com (work) ~ kpa...@sprintmail.com (home)
Shushun0va
>>I've said before that I'm not a big fan of Bonaly but the back flip was
>a
great way of sticking to the judges!!
I wish she did 2 of them.
Jam
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What a terrible Olympics.........on to Sydney!
Shushun0va
In article <B112FC6...@209.109.225.135>, "Benjamin Smith"
<be...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>This will make Michelle focus on technical skating more,
more difficult
>jumps.
I was trying to find something good about all this and I just did!
When I saw Michelle's Olympic short I wasn't moved like I was in
the past. I was hoping she'd at least try the triple flip. I'm now hoping
Michelle will be able to match Tara more in the difficulty of her jumps.
I just want her to be great on both sides of the marks and not have to
rely on just the presentation. It would be great to enjoy Michelle's
jumping once again.
TMann57605
Legends are made over time.********
YelloSub, you might have trolled earlier, but I must say that this one line has
completely cheered me up 100%. Thank you, I agree. I feel that Michelle will
be a legend, regardless of the color of her medals.
TMann57605
I was trying to find something good about all this and I just did!
When I saw Michelle's Olympic short I wasn't moved like I was in
the past. I was hoping she'd at least try the triple flip. I'm now hoping
Michelle will be able to match Tara more in the difficulty of her jumps. I
just want her to be great on both sides of the marks and not have to rely on
just the presentation. It would be great to enjoy Michelle's jumping once
again.
This isn't directed at this poster, but I've seen various posts that Michelle
should have done a triple-triple. How soon we forget that we didn't even know
if this girl was going to be healthy for Nationals. I think that at Nationals
she was driven as much by adreneline as her own talent. I feel that Michelle
wanted to skate the best program that she could, and I'm proud of her for even
making it to Nagano.
Michelle said in an interview this week that she will be back to doing
triple-triple's at Worlds. I'm looking forward to next season, and the years
beyond, hoping both ladies stay healthy and push each other to improve.
Wouldn't hurt if some other ladies stepped up to make it interesting.
Congrats to both Michelle and Tara.
Sarah Weinman
KNetAnnex wrote:
> We all know - skating fans all - that Michelle Kwan is respected. But in the
> real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold. Silver is nothing. No
> medal is nothing. Without that piece of hardware, Michelle will not get the
> respect she deserves from the world as a whole. That may not matter to her.
> That may not matter to most of the true blue skating fans. But it matters to
> me.
Geez, this is the biggest crock of bullshit. Do you work for Nike Marketing?
"You Don't Win Silver--You Lose Gold." Good god, why would Michelle *winning a
silver medal* be so terrible? Why does her not winning the gold matter to you?
She placed better than 26 other skaters, and all the others that didn't even make
it to the Olympics. She is one of the greatest skaters this season. She skated a
fabulous short and a wonderful long, and just because her medal happens to be
silver will not take away any of that.
Michelle Kwan, no matter what medals she may or may not win, is a true champion.
Considering she is only 17, she handles things in a mature manner that is lost in
most adults.
But because she didn't win a gold, none of this matters. What a bloody shame.
Sarah
Benjamin Smith
On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 10:35 AM, Revjoelle <mailto:revj...@aol.com> wrote:
>>But in the
>>real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold.
>
>life
>deals you. Look at Oksana Biaul. That gold medal didn't bring her
happiness
>did it?
I think what was meant by this, Joelle, is that non-skating fans, or casual
skating fans by into the hype and see the Olympics as *the defining
competition* for who is best. Now, most of the real world, that is the
world that is not full of skating fans, will think Tara gold, Tara best.
Michelle will become second fiddle for awhile (and some may not even think
of her).
Happily this will change after awhile, but people will always remember Tara
Gold. Tara, the best skater, Olympic champion.
Ben S.
Benjamin Smith
On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 12:34 PM, Kirk Chronus <mailto:Kosmi...@nospam.com>
wrote:
>Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
>Tara again. Tara is the greatest ever.
You know what Kirk? Neither Tara or her coach believe what you just wrote.
Tara took advantage of circumstances and a less than optimal skating
performance by her main rival and elder fellow skater. Just like she was
supposed to.
Ben S.
The Haleys
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
Joelle wrote:
(snipped)
> My only regret is the rash of Michelle wuz Robbed and Tara bashing that will
> come out of it. But that's the price of winning.
>
> Now I wish I'd waited to see it on TV.
>
> Woah. Again.
>
> I do feel bad for Michelle--so close. But she is young--I do hope she stays
> eligible. Actually I hope they both stay eligible and keep skating--trading
> titles back and forth over the next few years --setting a wonderful standard of
> two different but excellent standards for ladies skating for the next few
> years.
>
> And I'm so happy for Chen Lu.
>
> joelle
Hear hear. As one who has criticized Tara on this newsgroup, I want to
say that it sounds like she won it completely on merit - I don't see how
anybody can say Michelle was "robbed" at all. I thought it might go this
way after the short. Tara was so *on*, and Michelle looked cautious.
Maybe the pressure was getting to her. But how often does caution result
in a great performance?
Skating the LP first, in those circumstances, can't have helped her.
That encourages you to play safe and concentrate on not making mistakes.
Skating late and knowing the mark that's been set by your competition
seems more likely to encourage a go-for-broke strategy of the kind that
calls forth everything you've got.
And, no, these are not excuses for Michelle. It sounds like she just
didn't skate her best, for whatever reason. And the skating, not the
reason, is what it comes down to. I hope she gets her inspiration back
at Worlds. I loved that long program in Philadelphia.
Congratulations to Tara for a great Olympics. Congratulations to all
three!
Peggy
Benjamin Smith
On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 2:16 PM, Sarah Weinman <mailto:wein...@netcom.ca>
wrote:
>Michelle Kwan, no matter what medals she may or may not win, is a true
>champion.
>Considering she is only 17, she handles things in a mature manner that is
>lost in
>most adults.
>
>But because she didn't win a gold, none of this matters. What a bloody
>shame.
>
>Sarah
You said it. Lots of folks aren't interested in No. 2.
Ben S.
Anjule
Revjoelle writes:
>In the real world what matters is what you do with with what life
>deals you.
This is amazing. For once, I agree with Revjoelle.
Ann
Louis Epstein
KNetAnnex (knet...@aol.com) wrote:
: >What are you talking about? Michelle has loads of respect in the figure
: >skating community. I respect her. I admire her. If you are saying she
: >didn't
: >get the respect she deserved because she won the silver--well that sounds
: >like
: >"she wuz robbed" thinking to me.
: >
:
: We all know - skating fans all - that Michelle Kwan is respected. But in the
: real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold. Silver is nothing. No
: medal is nothing.
Next to a string of Worlds wins,a win at the occasional,overpublicized
dress rehearsal for Worlds run by the people with the trademark of five
linking rings is nothing.Don't mistake misconception,no matter how
popular,for higher truth.
Louis Epstein
Kirk Chronus (Kosmi...@nospam.com) wrote:
: On 20 Feb 1998 16:53:43 GMT, tmann...@aol.com (TMann57605) wrote:
:
: >YelloSub, you might have trolled earlier, but I must say that this one line has
: >completely cheered me up 100%. Thank you, I agree. I feel that Michelle will
: >be a legend, regardless of the color of her medals.
: Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
: Tara again. Tara is the greatest ever.
The greatest robotic shrimp ever?
She'd have trouble passing the 5th figure test!!
Louis Epstein
Benjamin Smith (be...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 2:16 PM, Sarah Weinman <mailto:wein...@netcom.ca>
So,let's ignore this year's US National silver medalist...right?
Revjoelle
> but people will always remember Tara
>Gold. Tara, the best skater, Olympic champion.
Tara did what she needed to do to go out there and win the gold and she
deserves whatever good things come out of that. I'm sorry it couldn't be that
way for Michelle. But it's not fair to let feeling bad for Michelle's sake
take anything away from Tara.
joelle
DellaG
>I do feel bad for Michelle--so close. But she is young--I do hope she stays
>eligible.
In the news conference afterward, Michelle said she would be there in 2002.
Della
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <19980220143...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
amyb...@aol.com (AmyBippy) wrote:
> >My only regret is the rash of Michelle wuz Robbed and Tara bashing that will
> >come out of it. But that's the price of winning.
>
> Actually, I have noticed more Michelle bashing than anything. Quite a few
> people seem almost thrilled to see Michelle get beaten for the gold.
Seems she
> should be ashamed to have only won a silver, according to a lot of folks on
> this group. Hmmm...
>
> AmyBippy
I have one thing to say: I COULD HAVE PREDICTED *THAT*!
Getting ready to mail Michelle her application for the Brian Orser Fan Club,
--
Trudi
"The Olympics...are about a monkey washing a cat."--David Letterman
"Brian Orser is the best figure skater of his generation"--Me
To mail me, take the "i" off my name (Binghamton did!)
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <6ckf01$9...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, Kosmi...@nospam.com
(Kirk Chronus) wrote:
> On 20 Feb 1998 16:53:43 GMT, tmann...@aol.com (TMann57605) wrote:
>
> >YelloSub, you might have trolled earlier, but I must say that this one
line has
> >completely cheered me up 100%. Thank you, I agree. I feel that
Michelle will
> >be a legend, regardless of the color of her medals.
>
> Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
> Tara again. Tara is the greatest ever.
And you guys wonder why the Brian Orser fans got so mad after Calgary.
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <19980220205...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, anj...@aol.com
(Anjule) wrote:
Wow, mark this day down on the calendar.
mudospun
> WOW! WOW! WOW! al last an olympic figure skating final worthy of the
> name. I watched the wholething live and must admit the first three
> groups were disappointing Bobek didn't take the opportunity to show us
> what she can do 17th again
Please tell me what channel you saw this on. Both Canadian channels, the
only ones that show any of it live here, started with the last 6 or 8
skaters and never showed the rest of them. I thought in the U.S. you only
got it on CBS the next day? I am hoping that one of the three networks
here will see fit to show more of the skaters even if only on tape, some
time today.
--
To reply, delete "no*spam" from address.
HILL JANET SWAN
KNetAnnex <knet...@aol.com> wrote:
>We all know - skating fans all - that Michelle Kwan is respected. But in the
>real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold. Silver is nothing. No
>medal is nothing.
That *may* once have been true, but probably is no more. We may be able
to thank Paul Wylie for the final blow to the wall. Heck, Wylie proves
you can get incredible respect without ever winning Worlds (what's the
highest he ever placed at a Worlds?)
janet
--
Louis Epstein
Trudi Marrapodi (marr...@binghamton.edu) wrote:
: In article <Eop41...@news2.new-york.net>, l...@put.com (Louis Epstein) wrote:
:
: > : On 20 Feb 1998 16:53:43 GMT, tmann...@aol.com (TMann57605) wrote:
: > :
: > : >YelloSub, you might have trolled earlier, but I must say that this
: one line has
: > : >completely cheered me up 100%. Thank you, I agree. I feel that
: Michelle will
: > : >be a legend, regardless of the color of her medals.
: > :
: > : Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
: > : Tara again. Tara is the greatest ever.
: > The greatest robotic shrimp ever?
: > She'd have trouble passing the 5th figure test!!
: Louis, that's not very nice. Can't we find a balance between complete
: worship and utter derision here?
Sorry,extremism just seems to cry out for balance...
Benjamin Smith
On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 4:07 PM, Louis Epstein <mailto:l...@put.com> wrote:
>The greatest robotic shrimp ever?
>She'd have trouble passing the 5th figure test!!
That's not fair Louis.
Ben S.
Klasen
Revjoelle wrote in message
<19980220153...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>But in the
>>real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold.
>
>Nonsense. In the real world what matters is what you do with with what
life
>deals you. Look at Oksana Biaul. That gold medal didn't bring her
happiness
>did it? Rosalynn Sumners says now she is glad that she won the silver
because
>she would not have been able to handle what comes with a gold medal.
>
>> Michelle will not get the respect she deserves from the world as a whole.
>That may not matter to her. That may not matter to most of the true blue
>skating fans. But it matters to me.
>
>Nobody needs the kind of respect that only sees value in gold. You sell
>Michelle short to think that she suffers for the loss of respect from
people
>who are that shallow.
>
>Michelle Kwan is a hardworking, extremely talented, well disciplined, well
>grounded young woman. She does not need a gold medal to succeed in life.
She
>probably won't make *quite* as much money without a gold medal but she'll
make
>enough. She will survive the disappointment of taking home a silver when
she
>was expecting gold because she already has a strong character and she will
make
>sure this makes her even stronger. She'll be fine.
>
>Tara...I am a bit concerned about her parents making bad decisions for her.
>I'm afraid they may pressure her to go pro now and that would not be a
good
>thing.
>
>Joelle
>
>
>"Life is an adventure...it's not meant to be easy and I learned its not
>supposed to be fair. It's what you make of it, where you take it, how you
deal
>with it."
>
>Scott Hamilton
I've always enjoyed reading Joelle's comments here in the news group and I
have to say that Gold or Silver doesn't really matter, it's what you choose
to do with your life afterwards that really matters.
Anyone who has any knowledge of skating would know that what happened in
Japan today was truly remarkable. Two of the best skaters in the world
skating thier best. I got up early this morning to catch the live broadcast
on CBC via the Sattelight. It was mesmerising to watch Michele. She is one
of the best skaters of all time. And then when Tara came out, it was also
amazing. I think the judges were right. In technical content, Tara did out
skate Michelle, and here artestry is so close that it is hard to call wich
one might be better.
But lets all enjoy it for what it was, beatiful, complete, captivating
skating.
j...@cypress.com
In article <Eop85...@news2.new-york.net>,
l...@put.com (Louis Epstein) wrote:
>
> Trudi Marrapodi (marr...@binghamton.edu) wrote:
> : In article <Eop41...@news2.new-york.net>, l...@put.com (Louis Epstein)
wrote:
> :
> : > Kirk Chronus (Kosmi...@nospam.com) wrote:
> : > : On 20 Feb 1998 16:53:43 GMT, tmann...@aol.com (TMann57605) wrote:
> : > :
> : > : >YelloSub, you might have trolled earlier, but I must say that this
> : one line has
> : > : >completely cheered me up 100%. Thank you, I agree. I feel that
> : Michelle will
> : > : >be a legend, regardless of the color of her medals.
> : > :
> : > : Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
> : > : Tara again. Tara is the greatest ever.
> : >
> : > She'd have trouble passing the 5th figure test!!
C'mon now, Louis, none of these ladies with the possible exception
of Maria Butyrskaya and Laetitia Hubert could pass fifth figure test
today. I think only these two are old enough to have come through
the figure mill that the rest of us endured. Oh, yeah, do remember
also, that Nicole Bobek has passed fifth test.
-jl John
Vince Foster - A case of assisted suicide
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Michele Atupan
Louis Epstein wrote:
> Kirk Chronus (Kosmi...@nospam.com) wrote:
> : On 20 Feb 1998 16:53:43 GMT, tmann...@aol.com (TMann57605) wrote:
> :
> : >YelloSub, you might have trolled earlier, but I must say that this one line has
> : >completely cheered me up 100%. Thank you, I agree. I feel that Michelle will
> : >be a legend, regardless of the color of her medals.
> :
> : Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
> : Tara again. Tara is the greatest ever.
>
> The greatest robotic shrimp ever?
> She'd have trouble passing the 5th figure test!!
Now Louis is joining the ranks of a Mr. Barnes(???), the journalist.
Nice if you can give us some hints of how to be that kind of a journalist.
Michele Atupan
DellaG wrote:
*sarcasm on*
Good! We're gonna see if Michelle Kwan can create a BLIP in Tara Lipinski's
era !!!
*sarcasm off*
just to let someone's post turned the other way around.
Tina Bradley
I really don't get all this, Michelle won't get respect, because
she got silver and not gold bull hockey. When I heard that
Tara won, my biggest fear was that Michelle fell or something
and would be really disapointed in not doing her best...when
I saw the programs I was relieved and proud of both Michelle
and Tara. They both skated their best and the rest was in
the hands of the judges. I have great respect for all
of the competitors whether they finished 1st or last and
anyone who bases their respect solely on the color medal
an athelete brings home is not a person I would care to
have respect me and I hope that it's the same for Michelle.
She has every right to be disappointed that she didn't
get the gold, but I think she will also be very proud that
under tremedous pressure she did her best.
Overall it was a great night for American figure skating and
we should all be very happy that we were so well represented.
Tina
>
Mysti
Phooey on all that. Michelle was wonderful, and just because she got
silver instead of gold, it's not going to change *my* opinion of her.
To me, the real champions this year won silver.....
Mysti
We are BoitanoFan. Resistance is Futile.
http://members.tripod.com/~MystiD/index.html
>
> On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 2:16 PM, Sarah Weinman <mailto:wein...@netcom.ca>
> wrote:
> >Michelle Kwan, no matter what medals she may or may not win, is a true
> >champion.
> >Considering she is only 17, she handles things in a mature manner that is
> >lost in
> >most adults.
> >
> >But because she didn't win a gold, none of this matters. What a bloody
> >shame.
> >
> >Sarah
>
> You said it. Lots of folks aren't interested in No. 2.
>
> Ben S.
The Haleys
What a good post.
Peggy
Ellen B. Edgerton
Revjoelle (revj...@aol.com) wrote:
: Tara...I am a bit concerned about her parents making bad decisions for her.
: I'm afraid they may pressure her to go pro now and that would not be a good
: thing.
I get the distinct impression that Tara's parents aren't going to have
much to say about anything any more. :-)
I mean, they couldn't even keep her out of the Olympic Village.
OperettaJK
In article <34EDD673...@netcom.ca>, Sarah Weinman <wein...@netcom.ca>
writes:
>KNetAnnex wrote:
> We all know - skating fans all - that Michelle Kwan is
>respected. But in the
> real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic
>gold. Silver is nothing. No
> medal is nothing. Without that piece of
>hardware, Michelle will not get the
> respect she deserves from the world as
>a whole. That may not matter to her.
> That may not matter to most of the
>true blue skating fans. But it matters to
> me.
Geez, this is the biggest
>crock of bullshit. Do you work for Nike Marketing?
"You Don't Win
>Silver--You Lose Gold." Good god, why would Michelle *winning a
silver
>medal* be so terrible? Why does her not winning the gold matter to you?
She
>placed better than 26 other skaters, and all the others that didn't even
>make
it to the Olympics. She is one of the greatest skaters this season.
>She skated a
fabulous short and a wonderful long, and just because her medal
>happens to be
silver will not take away any of that.
Michelle Kwan, no
>matter what medals she may or may not win, is a true champion.
Considering
>she is only 17, she handles things in a mature manner that is lost in
most
>adults.
But because she didn't win a gold, none of this matters. What a
>bloody shame.
Sarah
I think the original poster means those people who don't follow skating, e.g.
those who asked why Oksana Baiul or Kristi Yamaguchi isn't competiting, and
Madison Avenue. I think for Madison Avenue, gold or silver matters a lot,
especially when the gold medalist is white and silver medalist is non-white. I
was opitimistic about Michelle's marketability, now I'm not so sure.
Shushun0va
>Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
Tara
>again. Tara is the greatest ever.
You just keep telling yourself that.
Jam
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What a terrible Olympics.........on to Sydney!
Kalvin Yu
Kirk Chronus wrote:
>
> On 20 Feb 1998 16:53:43 GMT, tmann...@aol.com (TMann57605) wrote:
>
> >YelloSub, you might have trolled earlier, but I must say that this one line has
> >completely cheered me up 100%. Thank you, I agree. I feel that Michelle will
> >be a legend, regardless of the color of her medals.
>
> Tara again. Tara is the greatest ever.
Can we please get rid of this Tara or Michelle crap? I think these two
will push each other to new heights. The fact that Michelle shined and
outskated Tara at Nationals inspired Tara to throw in more
triples...gutsy, courageous, AND necessary if she was going to have a
shot at the gold, and it worked. Now it's Michelle's turn to up the
ante.
Kirk, it 's not over until 2002. We'll see who wins at World's. Don't
write either of these two off as one wins over the other during the next
4 years!!!
--Kalvin
kemc
> : >I've said before that I'm not a big fan of Bonaly but the
> : > flip was a great way of sticking to the judges!!
> :
> : Did she do that in her free skate? Well I should say naughty
> : naughty --but I can't ;-) -- it beats her 94 podium behavior.
>
> Yes,after she'd blown it otherwise she stuck in a one-foot backflip.
And the thing was - she looked so happy - just grinning
from ear-to-ear - and the crowd loved it. Heck, *I* loved
it. Must be my perverse side coming out.
:-)
kemc.
Summusdeus
>The fact that Michelle shined and
>outskated Tara at Nationals inspired Tara to throw in more
>triples...gutsy, courageous,
Tara had those triple jumps all year. In fact the only thing different from
last year's World Championship winning program was the triple toe half loop
triple salchow. Last year, she did the double axel half loop triple sal. Even
the placement of the jump sequences was the same.
Michalle S Gould
Shushun0va (shush...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <6ckf01$9...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, Kosmi...@nospam.com (Kirk
: Chronus) writes:
:
: >Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
: Tara
: >again. Tara is the greatest ever.
:
: You just keep telling yourself that.
:
: Jam
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: What a terrible Olympics.........on to Sydney!
Well Jam - you certainly were prescient with regards to Surya, though I
know that isn't what you were actually hoping for. At least Artur & Oksana
won.
Michalle
Christopher R. Carlen
Benjamin Smith wrote:
>
> On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 9:08 AM, KNetAnnex <mailto:knet...@aol.com> wrote:
> >And the fact that Michelle will never get the respect she deserves does
> not
> >bother you in the least?
In the long run, the only thing that matters in life is self-respect.
In a way, a silver for Michelle may be a blessing. With that silver she
has the nuts and bolts to work with now to grow in character and
self-respect. That can lead her to far greater wealth than material
gold.
> Why won't she? This will make Michelle focus on technical skating more,
> more difficult jumps. Michelle may have a lot to do with Tara's much
> improved presentation and artistry and Tara will inspire Michelle to do
> tougher jumps.
>
> Michelle has to think about preparing for worlds. Cry a bit, get support
> from friends, family, and fans. Keep looking at the silver medal and the
> competitor in her will want to win every competition from now on.
> Especially against Tara.
>
> I did not see it but from what I here although Michelle did not make any
> big errors, she did not skate on her highest level. Tara did. That's the
> way it is. Tara did not skate on her highest level at Nationals and
> Michelle did. Maybe it will go back and forth. Good for sports, skating,
> fans of skating.
>
> I miscalculated a bit. Tara's for real. She's tough. Her next challenge is
> when she grows and body changes. But I think she'll do fine.
>
> For MIchelle fans like me this is a big disappointment. But, congratulate
> Tara for doing her best under very difficult pressure. This does not really
> take away from Michelle.
>
> And Chen Lu. Wow.
>
> Ben S.
Very nice comments. I feel the same. It hurt real bad to see Michelle
not win the gold. It hurt even worse to see Tara win it. But that is
my personal attachment to my hero. Michelle remains that no matter
what. It is interesting how everything (especially things that hurt)
give us opportunities to become better people. I could dig up lots of
hip-slick-and-cool arguments why Michelle has been robbed, or even
worse, attack Tara. But I can benefit more from transcending my
feelings and learning from the objective reality. The truth is, Tara
skated better. I think Michelle is more beautiful and elegant. I think
she sets a standard for "presentation" and loveliness that few can even
approach (maybe LuLu). But Michelle didn't fight to the bitter end in
this Olympics. She was conservative, and it cost her. Tara put out
everything she's got, and it earned her the gold.
Congratulations Tara, Michelle, and LuLu!
It was so beautiful to see Chen Lu shine! She is a hero as well.
_______________________
Christopher R. Carlen
cr...@epix.net <--- Reply here, please.
car...@cs.moravian.edu
My OS is Linux v2
Christopher R. Carlen
YelloSub1 wrote:
>
> Legends are made over time.
Oooohhh! Very nice. I wish I could say so much with so few words.
Thank you.
Shushun0va
In article <6cllsi$sos$1...@news.nyu.edu>, msg...@is6.nyu.edu (Michalle S Gould)
writes:
>Well Jam - you certainly were prescient with regards to Surya, though I
know
>that isn't what you were actually hoping for. At least Artur & Oksana
won.
At least Artur & Oksana won....That seems like so long ago.
Jam
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please let Yagudin go to Worlds!
Christopher R. Carlen
Louis Epstein wrote:
>
> Kirk Chronus (Kosmi...@nospam.com) wrote:
> : On 20 Feb 1998 16:53:43 GMT, tmann...@aol.com (TMann57605) wrote:
> :
> : >YelloSub, you might have trolled earlier, but I must say that this one line has
> : >completely cheered me up 100%. Thank you, I agree. I feel that Michelle will
> : >be a legend, regardless of the color of her medals.
> : Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
> : Tara again. Tara is the greatest ever.
>
> She'd have trouble passing the 5th figure test!!
He he he. I think Louis has revealed that if we want to know which one
is REALLY the best, Tara or Michelle, we should have them perform in a
*figure* skating championship!
Way to go Michelle and Tara! Gotta love those 4.9s ;-)
<j>
P.S. By no means do I ever endorse "The greatest robotic shrimp
ever..." or other nasty perceptions about Tara or anybody.
Christopher R. Carlen
Trudi Marrapodi wrote:
>
> In article <19980220143...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
> amyb...@aol.com (AmyBippy) wrote:
>
> > >My only regret is the rash of Michelle wuz Robbed and Tara bashing that will
> > >come out of it. But that's the price of winning.
> >
> > Actually, I have noticed more Michelle bashing than anything. Quite a few
> > people seem almost thrilled to see Michelle get beaten for the gold.
> Seems she
> > should be ashamed to have only won a silver, according to a lot of folks on
> > this group. Hmmm...
> >
> > AmyBippy
>
> I have one thing to say: I COULD HAVE PREDICTED *THAT*!
>
> Getting ready to mail Michelle her application for the Brian Orser Fan Club,
>
> --
> Trudi
I hope not, because as I see it, Brian Orser remained resentful for
years about placing second to Boitano. To me that represents a failure
to rise above one's ego. That is the real test that life's experiences
present to us. I don't respect Brian Orser for this. And it doesn't
matter if there are reasons why Orser "should" have won the gold. Those
reasons just make the test more significant. To rise above justified
anger is even greater than rising above anger.
My deepest hope is that Michelle will not become resentful.
Sk8Maven
> To me, the real champions this year won silver.....
That's what I said in 1992, about the results of the Olympic Men's
figure skating competition. :-) Undoubtedly it could have been extended
to the results of the Ladies' competition as well, given Midori Ito's
gutsy freeskate following a dismal short.
I wouldn't have said it about Pairs or Ice Dance in '92, though.
As for '94, the true champions in Ice Dance won *bronze*. :-)
Maven
Benjamin Smith
On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 10:40 PM, Mysti <mailto:hyd...@geocities.com> wrote:
>Phooey on all that. Michelle was wonderful, and just because she got
>silver instead of gold, it's not going to change *my* opinion of her.
>
That would be Elvis and Michelle?
Ben S.
Shushun0va
>>To me, the real champions this year won silver.....
I know you're not referring to BS and the pairs event..
Jam
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I know that I'm the best, and I won because I am the best". - Tara Lipinski
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kaiju
I absolutely howled for 10 minutes. I couldn't stop laughing.
This was probably THE first time I ever loved Surya in an eligible
competition.
You GO girl!!!
Kaiju
Stuck
Lipinski had great jumping ability, but where was the artistry? I never
saw it, she never had it, she skates like a little girl! However,
Michelle is a complete skater, technically as well as artistically. And
yes, I felt Michelle was robbed!!!
Yup, a very disappointing Nagano Olympics.
Sir Stuck
RRI...@webtv.net
Just want to say that was a great commentary and you wre very gracious
with everyon mentioned!!!!!!
Catherine Grace Wong
In article <6ckut7$9...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
>>In the news conference afterward, Michelle said she would be there in 2002.
>
heheheheh :)
Is anyone else here as utterly excited as I am about what could be the
most amazing four years of women's figure skating? I can't wait till
Worlds ... :)
cathy
Virginia Blalock
On 20 Feb 1998 14:54:43 GMT, knet...@aol.com (KNetAnnex) wrote:
>We all know - skating fans all - that Michelle Kwan is respected. But in the
>real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold. Silver is nothing. No
>medal is nothing. Without that piece of hardware, Michelle will not get the
>respect she deserves from the world as a whole. That may not matter to her.
>That may not matter to most of the true blue skating fans. But it matters to
>me.
Some skaters are above the "gold is everything" scenario for various
reasons. Usually it is their actual skating that does it. Kurt
Browning has no Olympic medals and he is the top male pro right
now(IMHO of course). Michelle is in the same boat for me. Her skating
is special enough. However, Michelle is staying eligible at least for
now, so we have not seen the last of her.
Bern
KNetAnnex wrote:
> We all know - skating fans all - that Michelle Kwan is respected. But in the
> real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold. Silver is nothing. No
> medal is nothing. Without that piece of hardware, Michelle will not get the
> respect she deserves from the world as a whole. That may not matter to her.
> That may not matter to most of the true blue skating fans. But it matters to
> me.
It's mostly true, but Janet Lynn is the exception. Think Chen Lu too, she'll
probably be respected and remembered forever, as well as Michelle.
Bern
Karl Jolly
mudospun@no*spamdirect.ca wrote:
> Please tell me what channel you saw this on. Both Canadian channels, the
> only ones that show any of it live here, started with the last 6 or 8
> skaters and never showed the rest of them.
I'm in England and watched on satellite - Eurosport. You didn't really miss a
lot Lautowa was probably the only one of the lower skaters who skated to her
ability although Lavrenchuk gave an O.K. performance. I missed Gusmeroli but
she must have skated well to move up.
Che
On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:22:41 -0700, Stuc...@webtv.net (Stuck) wrote:
>Lipinski had great jumping ability, but where was the artistry? I never
>saw it, she never had it, she skates like a little girl! However,
There most certainly was artistry there. Level of artistry? Well,
try to remember how people hated certain works of art when they were
fresh and new, only to have that art become "classic" with the passing
of generations. Sometimes someone else's art is right in front of
your nose and you can't see it. It took Bach 80 years to get the
level of appreciation humanity now has for him. The presentation
marks favored Kwan slightly, but the total package favored Lipinski
slightly, well 2-1 actually. The difference here wasn't nearly so
small as between Baiul and Kerrigan.
Truly you could say this finish and the '94 finish were cases where it
would have made sense to have two skaters on the top step. Truly a
shame that sports almost never allow that. I remember an Academy
Award that the whole world thought would go to Lauren Bacall. The
actress who got it said, I think, "this really belongs to you". But
that wasnt how the voters voted. Me, there are years when I think
there should be 5 Best Actresses and this is a year when I would have
been happier to have 2 Olympic champions.
Sharonilee
Joelle said>>In the real world what matters is what you do with with what life
deals you. <
Then ANN said:
>This is amazing. For once, I agree with Revjoelle.
THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!! Look what a little good
Olympic competition can do!!!!!!!!! Huzzah! Huzzah!!!!
Shari
Shari
"It's so cool!" (Tara Lipinsky's reaction to seeing the White Ring for
the first time.)
Sharonilee
>But in the<BR>
>> real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold. Silver is nothing.
>> medal is nothing. Without that piece of hardware, Michelle will not get
>> respect she deserves from the world as a whole. That may not matter to
>> That may not matter to most of the true blue skating fans. But it matters
>> me.<BR>
Thus Spake a Fair-weather Fan...I don't think what YOU think matters to US..
Marlene A Koenig
Michelle already had a lot of respect before the O Games - she's not
going to lose it --
and who embraces more respect and admiration in the skating world -
Trixi Schuba or Janet Lynn
--
and author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
published by Rosvall Royal Books
Publisher of Royal Book News, the only newsletter for and about
Royal Books
Revjoelle
>I hope not, because as I see it, Brian Orser remained resentful for years
about placing second to Boitano.
What evidence do you have of this?
Joelle
"Life is an adventure...it's not meant to be easy and I learned its not
supposed to be fair. It's what you make of it, where you take it, how you deal
with it."
Scott Hamilton
Kent Parks
KNetAnnex (knet...@aol.com) wrote:
:
: We all know - skating fans all - that Michelle Kwan is respected. But in the
: medal is nothing. Without that piece of hardware, Michelle will not get the
: respect she deserves from the world as a whole. That may not matter to her.
: That may not matter to most of the true blue skating fans. But it matters to
: me.
Well said--over and over, they kept rattling off the list of US GOLD medal
winners: Albright, Heiss, Fleming, Hamilton, Yamaguchi...not a peep about
Kerrigan, a silver winner, or Thomas, bronze... I pictured Kwan and
Kerrigan on the phone together commiserating! :)
Kent
HILL JANET SWAN
>>>In the news conference afterward, Michelle said she would be there in 2002.
>>
>>Ooooooh REMATCH!!
>
>most amazing four years of women's figure skating? I can't wait till
>Worlds ... :)
Me, Cathy. I am.
If I'd been judging I'd probably have been wishing I could
disappear under the desk, or give a tie. I happen to believe that the
degree of excellence of Kwan's moves was enough greater than the degree of
excellence of Lipinski's that it might have been enough to make up for
the greater degree of difficulty of the tricks in Lipinski's program. I'm
pretty sure this was a "you hadda be there" kind of thing.
I happen to believe that Kwan's skating is sublime, and overall I prefer
it to Lipinski's, but against any *other* skater in the world, I would
have no hesitation in choosing Lipinski. The strides that BOTH of these
skaters have made in the past several years are *astonishing*. Both of
them poured their souls and every ounce of their physical and emotional
reserves into their performances. Chen's performance, while flawed, was
also glorious in its own way.
Now nice that the women's competition was last, since it was certainly the
most satisfying.
janet
--
Shushun0va
>On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:22:41 -0700, Stuc...@webtv.net (Stuck)
>wrote:
>Lipinski had great jumping ability, but where was the artistry? I
>never
>saw it, she never had it, she skates like a little girl! However,
The artistry wasn't thee problem because almost every skater is
artistic, including Tara. The problem is maturity which I think Tara
lacked.
Christopher R. Carlen
Revjoelle wrote:
>
> >I hope not, because as I see it, Brian Orser remained resentful for years
> about placing second to Boitano.
>
> What evidence do you have of this?
>
> Joelle
I can't state the name of the event, but there was a professional event
this season in which an interview was done of Brian Orser in which he
expressed that he was resentful for a long time. It was some event in
which they reviewed the famous rivalries of yesteryear. Sorry I can't
be more specific, but I only have a clear memory of that part of the
interview which struck me the hardest, and that was Orser's lack of
acceptance.
Revjoelle
>> >I hope not, because as I see it, Brian Orser remained resentful for years
about placing second to Boitano.
>>
>> What evidence do you have of this?
>I can't state the name of the event, but there was a professional event this
season in which an interview was done of Brian Orser in which he expressed that
he was resentful for a long time.
Well since you don't have the context is very possible you miss interpreted
what he was trying to say. Perhaps he was just talking about moving on.
>the hardest, and that was Orser's lack of
>acceptance.
I do not believe he is still resentful and everything I've heard him talk about
it is how he moved on and came to accept it. I'm sorry you choose to hold his
honesty about the process of coming to terms with that event against him.
Chelsea Christenson
Stuck wrote:
>
> Lipinski had great jumping ability, but where was the artistry? I
> never saw it, she never had it, she skates like a little girl!
I find Michelle Kwan a much more interesting skater, but Tara really
pulled it off that night. She had good stretch and flow, she was really
moving well with the music. As much as I might resent Tara for winning
the gold (and I'm surprised to find that I do feel resentful -- how dare
that little pipsqueak rain on Michelle's parade! Okay, I feel a little
better now), I can't argue with the results.
I can see I am going to have to make a real effort not to hold this
against the gold medalist. (Harumph!)
April Strong
kemc wrote:
> > : >I've said before that I'm not a big fan of Bonaly but the
> > : > flip was a great way of sticking to the judges!!
> > :
> > : Did she do that in her free skate? Well I should say naughty
> > : naughty --but I can't ;-) -- it beats her 94 podium behavior.
> >
> > Yes,after she'd blown it otherwise she stuck in a one-foot backflip.
>
> And the thing was - she looked so happy - just grinning
> from ear-to-ear - and the crowd loved it. Heck, *I* loved
> it. Must be my perverse side coming out.
>
Don't forget her ending her program with her BACK to the judges. I
thought it was Priceless. My opinion of her went up immensly.
Actually, I've said for some time that I think Surya will make an
Excellent Pro show skater. She never seems to shine in the competative
event but always looks so much better in the exhibitions. The first time
I saw her many years ago, I thought she had tremendous promise. Too bad
her mom ruined that. But I think she's got an excellent career ahead of
her as a pro.
--
April Strong
=========================================
Contact me at: Email:
http://wwp.mirabilis.com/4673266 ast...@cyberramp.net
or by my EmailExpress: Visit my Web Page
467...@pager.mirabilis.com http://www.cyberramp.net/~astrong
=========================================
April Strong
Christopher R. Carlen wrote:
> The truth is, Tara
> skated better. I think Michelle is more beautiful and elegant. I think
> she sets a standard for "presentation" and loveliness that few can even
> approach (maybe LuLu). But Michelle didn't fight to the bitter end in
> this Olympics. She was conservative, and it cost her. Tara put out
> everything she's got, and it earned her the gold.
>
> Congratulations Tara, Michelle, and LuLu!
>
> It was so beautiful to see Chen Lu shine! She is a hero as well.
My sentiments exactly. I'm a big fan of Michelle's and I really wanted her to
win. Unlike a friend of mine, I don't think her being the first to skate in the
last group cost her the medal. She admitted herself that her jumps were
tentative. Tara is a fighter and really wanted to win. She did what she had to
do to win and did it beautifully.
Michelle proved herself a real classy lady with her behavior after having lost
the gold. I truly hope that she does stay in for the Salt Lake City games.
April Strong
Sharonilee wrote:
> >But in the<BR>
> >> real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold. Silver is nothing.
I missed the original post so am replying here. I know, Sharonilee, that it was
not your comment and that you were quoting someone else.
re the comment that Silver is Nothing. Silver has done Paul Wylie pretty well for
a number of years.
Sk8Maven
> : >We all know - skating fans all - that Michelle Kwan is respected.
> : Silver is nothing. No is nothing.
> :
> : That *may* once have been true, but probably is no more. We may be
> : able to thank Paul Wylie for the final blow to the wall. Heck, Wylie
> : proves you can get incredible respect without ever winning Worlds
> : (what's the highest he ever placed at a Worlds?)
>
> Eighth or so?
Ninth. And that was on his *first* try, in 1988.
Paul was never even US National Champion, let alone a World medalist.
That Olympic silver is his only major international "eligible"
achievement -- but *what* an achievement!
Maven
Louis Epstein
Kirk Chronus (Kosmi...@nospam.com) wrote:
: On 20 Feb 1998 21:39:59 GMT, del...@aol.com (DellaG) wrote:
:
: >>I do feel bad for Michelle--so close. But she is young--I do hope she stays
: >>eligible.
: >
: >In the news conference afterward, Michelle said she would be there in 2002.
:
: Ooooooh REMATCH!!
One in a series...the next is next month in Minneapolis.
Louis Epstein
HILL JANET SWAN (hil...@spot.colorado.edu) wrote:
: KNetAnnex <knet...@aol.com> wrote:
:
: >real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold. Silver is nothing. No
Louis Epstein
j...@cypress.com wrote:
: In article <Eop85...@news2.new-york.net>,
: l...@put.com (Louis Epstein) wrote:
: >
: > Trudi Marrapodi (marr...@binghamton.edu) wrote:
: > : In article <Eop41...@news2.new-york.net>, l...@put.com (Louis Epstein)
: wrote:
: > :
: > : > Kirk Chronus (Kosmi...@nospam.com) wrote:
: > : > : On 20 Feb 1998 16:53:43 GMT, tmann...@aol.com (TMann57605) wrote:
: > : > :
: > : > : >YelloSub, you might have trolled earlier, but I must say that this
: > : one line has
: > : > : >completely cheered me up 100%. Thank you, I agree. I feel that
: > : Michelle will
: > : > : >be a legend, regardless of the color of her medals.
: > : > :
: > : > : Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
: > : > : Tara again. Tara is the greatest ever.
: > : >
: > : > The greatest robotic shrimp ever?
: > : > She'd have trouble passing the 5th figure test!!
:
: C'mon now, Louis, none of these ladies with the possible exception
: of Maria Butyrskaya and Laetitia Hubert could pass fifth figure test
: today. I think only these two are old enough to have come through
: the figure mill that the rest of us endured. Oh, yeah, do remember
: also, that Nicole Bobek has passed fifth test.
And 6th,and possibly 7th.But to be "greatest ever" you have to have
all your skills measured against lots of people who passed the 8th.
Louis Epstein
Benjamin Smith (be...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: On Fri, Feb 20, 1998 4:07 PM, Louis Epstein <mailto:l...@put.com> wrote:
: >The greatest robotic shrimp ever?
: >She'd have trouble passing the 5th figure test!!
:
By her own admission she hated and was no good at figures.
I do believe she would have trouble passing the 5th Test,
let alone the 8th.
It's certainly not "fair" to demand that assertions she is "the greatest
ever" go unchallenged...besides figures,which most of the all-time greats
excelled in,there are other areas of skating where she can not with
credibility be described as the best.
Louis Epstein
Christopher R. Carlen (cr...@epix.net) wrote:
: Louis Epstein wrote:
: >
: > Kirk Chronus (Kosmi...@nospam.com) wrote:
: > : On 20 Feb 1998 16:53:43 GMT, tmann...@aol.com (TMann57605) wrote:
: > :
: > : >YelloSub, you might have trolled earlier, but I must say that this one line has
: > : >completely cheered me up 100%. Thank you, I agree. I feel that Michelle will
: > : >be a legend, regardless of the color of her medals.
: > :
: > : Wrong. Tara has surpassed Michelle. Michelle will never be as good as
: > : Tara again. Tara is the greatest ever.
: >
: > She'd have trouble passing the 5th figure test!!
:
: is REALLY the best, Tara or Michelle, we should have them perform in a
: *figure* skating championship!
No,they are both out-of-practice Novices when it comes to figures.
I'm just pointing out that "the greatest ever" is an absurd
overstatement,and highlighting the greatest particular
shortfall in her skills.
Louis Epstein
Bern (L_wi...@uclink4.berkeley.edu) wrote:
: KNetAnnex wrote:
:
: > We all know - skating fans all - that Michelle Kwan is respected. But in the
: > real world, the only medal that matters is Olympic gold. Silver is nothing. No
: > respect she deserves from the world as a whole. That may not matter to her.
: > That may not matter to most of the true blue skating fans. But it matters to
: > me.
:
: It's mostly true, but Janet Lynn is the exception. Think Chen Lu too, she'll
: probably be respected and remembered forever, as well as Michelle.
:
: Bern
Chen and Kwan are both world champions,if they hadn't been they'd be
remembered less.
Louis Epstein
kemc
HILL JANET SWAN wrote
>
> If I'd been judging I'd probably have been wishing I could
> disappear under the desk, or give a tie.
Is there anything prohibiting the judges from giving
a tie?
(snip)
> Now nice that the women's competition was last, since it
> was certainly the most satisfying.
Many golden moments, from smiles inspired by Surya
and Tara to the tears inspired by Lu Chen.
kemc.
GMCpilot
Sk8Maven wrote:
>Paul was never even US National Champion, let alone a World medalist.
>That Olympic silver is his only major international "eligible"
>achievement -- but *what* an achievement!
I think the reason Paul is so popular today (apart from his continued excellent
skating) is because in the minds of most casual viewers he literally came out
of *nowhere* with that incredible Olympic performance. Seeing someone so
totally out of left field have the both performance of his life and of the
competition created a kind of psychic shock in the public that still resonates.
Would he have had that kind of effect if he'd seriously been in the running
all the way along? I suspect not.
Reluctantly, I agree with the original poster. To win an Olympic silver medal
is a glorious achievement that 99.99% of us will never experience. But being
#1 is where it's at in the U.S. And not only here; look at the trauma of the
Canadians losing at hockey, and the pressure placed on the Japanese team to
haul in the medals, among countless other examples.
It's all in how you deal with it, though. Michelle's pro career may very well
eclipse Tara's. Who knows? All I know is that I was disappointed to see Kwan
lose. But I agree, there was something a little off about her skating that
night. The way her bottom arm didn't fully extend in time with the beat of the
music on her spiral, like it did so wonderfully in Philadelphia. The worried
expression that sometimes flickered across her face. Little things make a big
difference.
But I don't notice the little things with Lipinski, which is why, to my
inexperienced eyes, Michelle is the vastly superior skater.
Louis Epstein
kemc (ke...@mv.igs.net) wrote:
:
:
: HILL JANET SWAN wrote
: > If I'd been judging I'd probably have been wishing I could
: > disappear under the desk, or give a tie.
:
: Is there anything prohibiting the judges from giving
: a tie?
No...but it's disgraceful if they do.
HILL JANET SWAN
In article <19980223170...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
>I think the reason Paul is so popular today (apart from his continued excellent
>skating) is because in the minds of most casual viewers he literally came out
>of *nowhere* with that incredible Olympic performance. Seeing someone so
>totally out of left field have the both performance of his life and of the
>competition created a kind of psychic shock in the public that still resonates.
> Would he have had that kind of effect if he'd seriously been in the running
>all the way along? I suspect not.
I would put a slightly different spin on it. Wylie most emphatically did
not come out of nowhere. He had been toiling away for years *almost* in
the medals (and occasionally in them, nationally). He was generally
acknowledged to have the best form and the greatest grace in his skating
of any U.S. man, but couldn't rely on his jumps from competition to
competition. He was (is) a gracious and self-effacing kind of guy, and
one, moreover, who didn't sacrifice his whole life to skating .... seeming
to be someone who had put his skating into perspective. So when he
finally had the performance of his life WHEN IT MATTERED MOST, people all
over the place were thrilled FOR him. And for him, the Silver was
WINNING. Scotvold said afterwards "everyone knows my guy won" .... and he
didn't mean that the result should have been any different. He meant that
Wylie's coming up with the silver was a greater triumph, relatively
speaking, than Petrenko's winning the gold. It was a "God's in his
heaven, all's right with the world" kind of personal victory for Wylie.
>It's all in how you deal with it, though. Michelle's pro career may very well
>eclipse Tara's. Who knows? All I know is that I was disappointed to see Kwan
>lose.
On the other hand, these last 4-5 years in men's skating have been among
the best I can remember, and what has made them good has been that a whole
group of men have been clustered around the top, winning this event, not
winning the next, trading places. it's a lot more satisfying to me than a
situation where only one person is dominant. We haven't had enough of the
top women staying around long enough to see that pattern recently: Baiul,
Sato, Chen, Kwan, Lipinski have all held the title for one year. Baiul
and Sato immediately went pro. Chen came in second the year after she
won, and then "disappeared" because of injury. I'd really like to see the
ladies event be more like the men's has been recently, with a bunch of
people who could win continuing to compete, and sometimes winning and
sometimes not, because all are -- on average -- fairly evenly matched.
Hey! maybe the ISU had a GOOD idea -- making it possible for the
eligibles to stay in eligible skating and make a living instead of making
it a better idea to get out of eligible skating as soon as you win Worlds.
janet
--
HILL JANET SWAN
In article <01bd4065$f96ebaa0$LocalHost@default>, kemc <ke...@mv.igs.net> wrote:
>
>HILL JANET SWAN wrote
>>
>> If I'd been judging I'd probably have been wishing I could
>> disappear under the desk, or give a tie.
>
>Is there anything prohibiting the judges from giving
>a tie?
No, but it's frowned on. There are all your colleagues being brave enough
to make a decision, and there YOU are, chickening out. You'd better be
able to support such a decision.
janet
--
Benjamin Smith
On Sun, Feb 22, 1998 10:24 PM, April Strong <mailto:ast...@cyberramp.net>
wrote:
>re the comment that Silver is Nothing. Silver has done Paul Wylie pretty
>well for
>a number of years.
>
Paul Wylie was not a favorite. Kwan was as close to an overwhelming
favorite as there is. But, Kwan will be fine. Has a great chance to be a
legend. People *are* surprised that Kwan skated a clean program and did not
come back with the Gold.
Ben S.
GMCpilot
hil...@spot.colorado.edu (HILL JANET SWAN) wrote:
>In article <19980223170...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
>
>>I think the reason Paul is so popular today (apart from his continued
>excellent
>>skating) is because in the minds of most casual viewers he literally came
>out
>>of *nowhere* with that incredible Olympic performance. Seeing someone so
>>totally out of left field have the both performance of his life and of the
>>competition created a kind of psychic shock in the public that still
>resonates.
>> Would he have had that kind of effect if he'd seriously been in the running
>>all the way along? I suspect not.
>
>I would put a slightly different spin on it. Wylie most emphatically did
>not come out of nowhere. He had been toiling away for years *almost* in
>the medals (and occasionally in them, nationally).
<snip>
I was talking about the casual Olympic watcher, which included me. I don't
remember ever hearing of Wylie before the Olympics, and if I had it was only
very peripherally. But I sure remembered him after! And you're right, much of
his continued popularity has to do with a very winning personality.
Stefan Mochnacki
In article <EotCA...@news2.new-york.net>, Louis Epstein <l...@put.com> wrote:
>
>Gusmeroli,unusually,was shown on CBS but not CBC.
Ah, but you obviously weren't watching SRC ... who showed a lot more than
CBC to fill out those late-wee hours when CBC went to sleep :-)
CBC showed Hubert first time (live), but in the evening replay, they (very
wisely) showed Vanessa instead. So did SRC. The reason why we saw only one
non-last-flight performance was the Russia-Finland hockey game preceding the
Ladies' Long ... and the need to discuss our National Disaster earlier that
night.
SRC also showed a lot of the Exhibition in the two hours before the
Russian-Czech final, with VERY FEW commercials and no distractions.
--
Stefan W. Mochnacki ste...@centaur.astro.utoronto.ca "Somewhere"
* If you feed the fish, please don't complain! *
==============At Ontario Place, 1 May - Thanksgiving===================
--
Stefan W. Mochnacki ste...@crux.astro.utoronto.ca "Somewhere"
==============At Ontario Place, 1 May - Thanksgiving===================