A few thoughts about Elvis... Spoiler
Benjamin Smith
On Sat, Feb 14, 1998 7:54 PM, lycka <mailto:ly...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
>I wish Elvis a speedy recovery, and I support him in his decision to stay
or
>leave the amateur ranks. I, personnaly think it is time to move on to
some
>different challenges, but I can see his point about the fact, that he
feels
>he still has something to bring/give to the amateur skating world.
>
>Take care,
>
>Pierre, Montreal
>ly...@videotron.ca
>
Well, I tell you what. I root for whoever I like best, not the country. And
I really thought Elvis was best. Most stamina and best conditioned skater,
strong powerful jumper, a very defined technique and style that is true to
his spirit and owes much to movement learned in martial arts. He is older
than Kulik and much, much more mature. And I just don't get Elvis'
presentation marks. He presented himself best here, Kulik was a gracious
winner but oh so boring in between jumps and I never liked this program.
The custume, terrible choreography has nothing to do with Rhapsody in Blue
and he just puts his arms out every now and then for reasons beyond me.
Jumps beautiful, but...
This is depressingly unfortunate. Todd did not skate well and did not
medal. Elvis had this terrible injury but won the hearts of many watching
the Olympics with this major show of courage. Candoloro, a showman, some
slick moves, but he doesn't belong on the podium IMO.
Hope the women's turns out better but so far with pairs, ice-dancing and
now the mens I'm not confident.
The best thing about this Olympics so far is woman's hockey and a big
favorite in the USA, Picabo Street.
Ben Smith
jadoe
I thought Elvis did great!! I am not Canadian but I have always admired his
skating, so does my mom. I was so sad that he wasnt feeling well AND had an
injury. Given all that, he still skated well enough to get the silver!!! I
respect him more than ever. I cant imagine how much pain he must have
endured during that program. :( I really felt for him and am still
worried, he looked like he was really suffering in the kiss and cry. All you
Canadians MUST keep us updated.
jadoe
lycka wrote in message ...
>Hello,
>
>First I would like to congrats Kulik on a job well done. It is the first
>time he actually *moved* me. The program was indeed well delivered. No
one
>will ever dispute the results of these Olympics.
>On that day, Kulik *was* the best. It could have been Elvis, Todd etc...
>
>As for Elvis, I am proud to be Canadian, proud to be a fan. He showed us
>today, that he deserves our praise for his courage, his talent and
>determination. He is what a *champion* should be in every sense of the
>word. He should - and is - be an inspiration. Elvis, as far as I am
>concerned, always had to do twice as much as the others to get the same
>results. This is the way I feel. Elvis has always been an underdog-
>reading this newsgroup certainly helped this notion.
>
>The minute I saw Elvis stepped on the ice for the short, I knew something
>was wrong. I was not aware of the gravity of the situation, and frankly, I
>would not have gone on to skate in these conditions. But Elvis being
Elvis,
>he went and delivered.
>
>The same with the long. It was a miraculous performance - I had seen the
>warmup, and frankly I was concerned! I know Elvis is pleased with his
silver
>medal this time, because he went all the way, and gave everything, like so
>many times before. He never gave up... injury and all.
>
>Elvis is Canada's best loved athlete. No doubts about it. One has to put
>the tv on just to see the extent of his success. He has about 4 different
>commercials running at the same time. He has his own sucessful yearly
tour.
>He could retire now, and enjoy a quiet retirement, if he wanted to.
>
>In retrospect, my only regret would be for that first gold medal that
almost
>everyone agreed should have been his! Dragon was in my mind one of the top
>3 best programs for a male skater, ever. I would have to put Kulik's last
>one in that same category.
Revjoelle
> Kulik was a gracious winner but oh so boring in between jumps and I never
liked this program.
You know what? I didn't like the program either. It really seemed like jump
jump jump. I think I am still influenced from when I saw him at Skate
Canada in 1996 and tonight for the first time I realized I just don't care for
that program. I liked his short better. Maybe if he wore a different
costume...
I liked Todd's program so much better...but I don't know if he could have won
even at his best. Those judges just seem terribly enamored of Illia
.>Candoloro, a showman, some
>slick moves, but he doesn't belong on the podium IMO.
I think that was the best I'd ever seen him skate. Loved that program. Maybe
after such dismal news I just needed to be entertained. I don't know who you
would have put ahead of him under the circumstances.
And I never thought much of Elvis' program but it really was amazing to see him
skate as well as he did considering. Hope that injury doesn't stick around.
Joelle
"Life is an adventure...it's not meant to be easy and I learned its not
supposed to be fair. It's what you make of it, where you take it, how you deal
with it."
Scott Hamilton
Benjamin Smith
On Sat, Feb 14, 1998 11:22 PM, Revjoelle <mailto:revj...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Kulik was a gracious winner but oh so boring in between jumps and I
never
>liked this program.
>
>You know what? I didn't like the program either. It really seemed like
>jump
>jump jump. I think I am still influenced from when I saw him at Skate
>Canada in 1996 and tonight for the first time I realized I just don't care
for
>that program. I liked his short better. Maybe if he wore a different
>costume...
>
>I liked Todd's program so much better...but I don't know if he could have
won
>even at his best. Those judges just seem terribly enamored of Illia
>
The short program is more interesting, he does more between jumps and the
costume is much better and seems more fitted to the music. Todd seemed
tight, probably thinking this is his last shot at the Olympics. Sad, he did
so well and had such a strong comeback. Maybe this will inspire Tara to
bigger heigts seeing that she's so close to Todd and she may want to
represent her camp and the USA very well.
As far as Ilia, sorry to say, I think many are enamoured to his looks, rosy
cheeks and all. If he looked different (like Yagudin perhaps?) and skated
as he skates, would he still get so much approval. I like the younger
Yagudin better.
>..>Candoloro, a showman, some
>>slick moves, but he doesn't belong on the podium IMO.
>
>I think that was the best I'd ever seen him skate. Loved that program.
>Maybe
>after such dismal news I just needed to be entertained. I don't know who
>you
>would have put ahead of him under the circumstances.
>
you are right, it was a good performance. Just once, though, I'd like to
see him really skate and not do a fantasy character brought to a skating
routine.
Ben S.
Craig and Simone Alexander
>> Kulik was a gracious winner but oh so boring in between jumps and I never
>liked this program.
>You know what? I didn't like the program either. It really seemed like jump
>jump jump. I think I am still influenced from when I saw him at Skate
>Canada in 1996 and tonight for the first time I realized I just don't care for
>that program. I liked his short better. Maybe if he wore a different
>costume...
Well, I loved his program. The guy is artistry personified. If he
went last he would have got 6.0s.
I agree his costume is pretty awful, but I really don't think the
judges take this into consideration! Actually, when I saw him at the
Skate International (I think in Halifax toward the end of 1997?), I
really hoped he would win the Olympic gold medal.
And remember, he did the best quad there. Really, he set the standard
for the last group. All the jumps landed and he _did_ do more than
"move his arms around". How about his choreography that actually
suited the music? His skate to me was incredibly beautiful and said
to the rest of them "beat that". Rarely have I been more moved by a
skater's performance.
>I liked Todd's program so much better...but I don't know if he could have won
>even at his best. Those judges just seem terribly enamored of Illia
His short program was stacks better. Actually, I thought it would be
close until he started falling.
>And I never thought much of Elvis' program but it really was amazing to see him
>skate as well as he did considering. Hope that injury doesn't stick around.
He did look very determined in the face while he was waiting for the
music to start, but it just wasn't his moment - just like everyone who
had the 'flu.
SandraK
Benjamin Smith <be...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<B10BD3...@209.109.225.156>...
> On Sat, Feb 14, 1998 7:54 PM, lycka <mailto:ly...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> , Kulik was a gracious
> winner but oh so boring in between jumps and I never liked this program.
> The custume, terrible choreography has nothing to do with Rhapsody in
Blue
> and he just puts his arms out every now and then for reasons beyond me.
> Jumps beautiful, but...
>
You said it! On the CBC, Sandra Bezic commented that Kulik's was the most
sophisticated, difficult choreography, but it seemed to me that he spent
far too much time skating around with his arms outstretched as if he's
trying to hug a large ball. And anyone who would wear that shirt
voluntarily should be penalized in terms of artistic impression.
I think he's a superb skater and the deserving winner, but the program
didn't mesmerize me as others have.
Sandra
Che
On 15 Feb 98 00:24:25 -0500, "Benjamin Smith" <be...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>The short program is more interesting, he does more between jumps and the
>costume is much better and seems more fitted to the music. Todd seemed
>tight, probably thinking this is his last shot at the Olympics.
Michelle should have taken Todd on a trip to the clouds to see the
angels. And I'm not trying to be funny. It did something for
Michelle, to leave the surface of the earth and fly, at least in
spirit, in the heavens. Perhaps a little of that would have lightened
Todd up to a winning performance. Hope Michelle still can fly.
Benjamin Smith
On Sun, Feb 15, 1998 6:09 AM, Che <mailto:C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>Michelle should have taken Todd on a trip to the clouds to see the
>angels. And I'm not trying to be funny. It did something for
>Michelle, to leave the surface of the earth and fly, at least in
>spirit, in the heavens. Perhaps a little of that would have lightened
>Todd up to a winning performance. Hope Michelle still can fly.
I don't know how close Todd is to Michelle. He trains with Tara and is very
close to her. So, it would have to have been Tara to guide Todd. Doubtful,
less experience.
Ben S.
Benjamin Smith
On Sun, Feb 15, 1998 10:08 AM, Colleen Condron <mailto:cond...@osu.edu>
wrote:
>I would venture that his martial arts training is what enabled him to
>perform in the final, both physically and mentally.
>
Not necessarily. Kerry Strug performed injured in the Olympics with a
severely injured foot. Jackie Joyner-Kersee did some amazing things being
injured several times.
Atheletes on this level constantly perform in pain. Their threshold for
pain is much, much higher than what most of us can imagine. These are truly
exceptional people, and perhaps Elvis is even a higher exception than most
of these exceptional atheletes.
Ben Smith
Sakoz
I agree with many of the comments that have made .
I, too, root for whoever I like best, not the country. I was hoping
Elvis would win. I've been a fan of his for many years. It's a
shame he had the injury. His courage shows what a champion
he truly is!
I agree that Kulik had beautiful jumps but he was oh so boring
in between jumps. I'm looking forward to watching his artistry
grow.
Yes, it was unfortunate that Todd did not skate well. His
parents were really proud of him. They were clapping and
smiling so big. Can you imagine how heartwarming that is
to have a child make the Olympics?
While his technical wasn't great, Candoloro's performance
was so entertaining and that's what I love--I love to be
entertained! The Musketeer theme was wonderful! You
could swear he had a sword in his hand! (While I loved that
performance, I don't care for his performances when he rips
his shirt off).
Yes I agree--the best thing about this Olympics so far is
woman's hockey and a big favorite in the USA, Picabo Street.
Picabo is so darling and so delightful! She has such a bubbly
personality. She really fought for her gold medal--knee
surgery and then a concussion only two weeks ago. She is
a great representative of the USA. I hope she'll get
endorsements because she is simply wonderful!
Sue K
Gurnee, Illinois
USA
.
Sue W
I think that Ilia Kulik's shirt should either be burned or put into a
museum of horrors!
SandraK wrote:
anyone who would wear that shirt voluntarily should be penalized in
terms of artistic impression.
--
... Sue :-)
If your Bible is in good shape ...
Your life probably isn't!
E-Mail - mailto:s...@inconnect.com
"Sue's Plain Vanilla HomePage"
http://www.inconnect.com/~sue/
Virginia Blalock
On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:09:57 GMT, C...@nospam.com (Che ) wrote:
>Michelle should have taken Todd on a trip to the clouds to see the
>angels. And I'm not trying to be funny. It did something for
>Michelle, to leave the surface of the earth and fly, at least in
>spirit, in the heavens. Perhaps a little of that would have lightened
>Todd up to a winning performance. Hope Michelle still can fly.
Todd and Michelle also were/are in two diffrent scenarios. Michelle
has another Olympics. This was Todd's last *and* he has had LOTS more
bad luck than Michelle. Add to that Todd age and knowlede of life
compared to Michelle and you can see why perhaps this would not
work(although you never know!)
Marie L. Hughes
In article <6c64ju$fbj$1...@picasso.op.net> , lor...@plover.com (Lorrie Kim)
wrote:
>In article <wwwords-1502...@srv-14-29.roc.ny.frontiernet.net>,
>Trudi Marrapodi <www...@forgetaboutit.net> wrote:
>>
>>Except he's insecurely homphobic, but that aside...
>
> Perhaps there has been evidence of that, but I haven't seen it.
I had always been giving him the benefit of the doubt about that -- until
this week's Newsweek article where he says:
"That I'm scared to get in touch with my feminie side is a bunch of baloney.
I don't have a feminine side. Maybe if I were gay, but I'm not."
That part about "I don't have a a feminine side because I"m not gay" really
pissed me off! Does that mean that every guy who *is* in touch with his
feminine side is gay? Crap.
Now, he does kind of redeem himself by adding:
"A soft side, yes. But a man can have a sense of command and still be soft
and sensitive."
So maybe he's just playing semantics. But, if he's willing to admit he has a
soft and sensitive side, why does it bother him SO much (and it obviously
does) to think that he has a feminine side?
I see this statement and I think that at best the man is immature and
insecure about being though gay because he figure skates and at worst that
he's a homophobe. Bottom line: It doesn't endear him to me and I wish he'd
grow up about it.
> As long as they only speak of themselves, and don't put
>the other guys down, I have no problem with it (even if it does get
>tiresome to hear it -- but they _are_ in the position of dealing with this
>issue all the time).
Yeah they are, but what's the big deal about being thought gay if you know
you aren't? Heck, as a woman who's willing to speak her mind, I daily run
the risk of being called a dyke. In fact, I have been. But I don't let it
crush me or get all defensive about it. I just laugh because I think it says
more about the person who thinks that way than it does about me.
Marie
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
hug...@marie.org http://www.marie.org
marie_...@intuit.com http://www.quicken.com
Some things people have learned as they grow up (part 3):
-I've learned that wherever I go, the world's worst drivers have followed me
there. Age 29
-I've learned that if someone says something unkind about me, I must live so
that no one will believe it. Age 39
Revjoelle
>Yeah they are, but what's the big deal about being thought gay if you know you
aren't? Heck, as a woman who's willing to speak her mind, I daily run the risk
of being called a dyke. In fact, I have been. But I don't let it crush me or
get all defensive about it. I just laugh because I think it says more about the
person who thinks that way than it does about me.
>
>Marie
I have always thought the Figure Skating community--instead of denying there
were any gays in it--should take the same tatic of the feminists "accuse" of
being lesbians.
Refuse to see it as an insult. If it's not an insult--then being called gay
when you are not gay is no more offensive than having it said that you are from
a different town than is the case.
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <6c9416$k99$2...@castor.dnai.com>, "Marie L. Hughes"
<use.sig...@to.reply> wrote:
> In article <6c64ju$fbj$1...@picasso.op.net> , lor...@plover.com (Lorrie Kim)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <wwwords-1502...@srv-14-29.roc.ny.frontiernet.net>,
> >Trudi Marrapodi <www...@forgetaboutit.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>Except he's insecurely homphobic, but that aside...
> >
> > Perhaps there has been evidence of that, but I haven't seen it.
>
> I had always been giving him the benefit of the doubt about that -- until
> this week's Newsweek article where he says:
>
> "That I'm scared to get in touch with my feminie side is a bunch of baloney.
> I don't have a feminine side. Maybe if I were gay, but I'm not."
>
> That part about "I don't have a a feminine side because I"m not gay" really
> pissed me off! Does that mean that every guy who *is* in touch with his
> feminine side is gay? Crap.
That's what I mean. I am a reader and a writer, and I put this article "in
perspective" a long time ago. And I know what it is telling me. It is
Elvis's fans--some of them, who, IMO, are just sticking their heads in the
sand because they can't reconcile homophobia with their concept of their
hero.
> Now, he does kind of redeem himself by adding:
>
> "A soft side, yes. But a man can have a sense of command and still be soft
> and sensitive."
>
> So maybe he's just playing semantics. But, if he's willing to admit he has a
> soft and sensitive side, why does it bother him SO much (and it obviously
> does) to think that he has a feminine side?
Obviously, it does. I mean, here he is trying to say that he can be soft
and sensitive. Maybe what he objects to is reporters calling this
"feminine," which I could understand. But why does he have to be so
defensive about it, and why does he have to drag homosexuality into it?
Truth be told, that's a big mistake on his part on dealing with the media.
If he is truly afraid the media think he's gay, the WORST way to deflect
it is to bring up the topic himself! Bad move, Elvis! And to get on this
defensive business with "Maybe if I were gay, but I'm not" is like playing
right into the hands of the media so they can go out and say "Elvis Stojko
denies he is gay"--and you know how THAT sounds.
> I see this statement and I think that at best the man is immature and
> insecure about being though gay because he figure skates and at worst that
> he's a homophobe. Bottom line: It doesn't endear him to me and I wish he'd
> grow up about it.
OK then. I guess that is the best way for me to phrase how I feel, too.
> > As long as they only speak of themselves, and don't put
> >the other guys down, I have no problem with it (even if it does get
> >tiresome to hear it -- but they _are_ in the position of dealing with this
> >issue all the time).
That's right, and they need to learn how.
> Yeah they are, but what's the big deal about being thought gay if you know
> you aren't? Heck, as a woman who's willing to speak her mind, I daily run
> the risk of being called a dyke. In fact, I have been. But I don't let it
> crush me or get all defensive about it. I just laugh because I think it says
> more about the person who thinks that way than it does about me.
I'm 36 and single. Haven't had any men in my life in years, though I'd
like to someday. I have close female friends. I'm sure there are people
who think I'm a lesbian. Guess what? I don't care. I follow the philosophy
of "I'd rather have a bigot mistake me for a lesbian than have a lesbian
mistake me for a bigot." I'm sure not gonna run out and find myself some
Jeff Gillooly on the grounds that any man is better than no man at all.
That's not what I learned growing up--thank God.
Maybe Elvis should try the male equivalent of this philosophy.
I am sincerely sorry if some of Elvis's fans felt I was "not showing
respect and waiting a few days before I jumped down his throat." I know
they must be in emotional pain right now and perhaps they got angry and
said a few things they now regret. I hope so. I know it's disappointing
when something like this happens. But the intent was not to "show
disrespect" to Elvis before the "fans' mourning period" expired. I was
just expressing an opinion about the article. I am sure it would not have
been any more welcome last Wednesday than on Sunday, anyway, to those who
disagree with me and always will. I'm sorry if they felt it added insult
to injury.
--
Trudi
"The Olympics...are about a monkey washing a cat."--David Letterman
"Brian Orser is the best figure skater of his generation"--Me
To mail me, take the "i" off my name (Binghamton did!)
cskirvin
Trudi Marrapodi wrote in message ...
>I am sincerely sorry if some of Elvis's fans felt I was "not showing
>respect and waiting a few days before I jumped down his throat." I know
>they must be in emotional pain right now and perhaps they got angry and
>said a few things they now regret. I hope so. I know it's disappointing
>when something like this happens. >
>--
>Trudi
>
>"Brian Orser is the best figure skater of his generation"--Me
As an Elvis fan, I would like to thank Trudi and everyone else who is
showing consideration for the emotional pain that Elvis fans are feeling
right now.
I, for one, am also feeling pain and sorrow for Todd Eldredge, Alexei
Yagudin, Tanya S and all other fine and deserving athletes who have suffered
with health, injury, or shattered dreams during this Olympics. My heart goes
out to all of them and I am proud of all them.
Maya
Lorrie Kim
In article <6c9416$k99$2...@castor.dnai.com>,
Marie L. Hughes <use.sig...@to.reply> wrote:
>
>I had always been giving him the benefit of the doubt about that -- until
>this week's Newsweek article where he says:
>
>"That I'm scared to get in touch with my feminie side is a bunch of baloney.
>I don't have a feminine side. Maybe if I were gay, but I'm not."
>
>That part about "I don't have a a feminine side because I"m not gay" really
>pissed me off! Does that mean that every guy who *is* in touch with his
>feminine side is gay? Crap.
Yeah, I saw that too, Marie. I don't think Stojko is playing
semantics. I think he meant things are different for him as a straight
skater than they are for gay skaters. Different issues, different
decisions to make on how to portray self and gender in choreography. I
think the nuances of gender and sexual orientation are quite sophisticated
and you have to have extraordinary motivation, like realizing you're gay,
to make the effort to learn them while pursuing a full-time skating
career. I'm not surprised to see Stojko speaking in popular, rather than
accurate, terms. To be fair, the journalists who set him up for these
quotes are not using accurate terms, and they have far less excuse.
To me, Stojko was only saying he's different from gay skaters. I
also found a subtext of "Other men do have a feminine side, and that is
valid. There are gay people in skating, and that is valid. It's just not
me." Maybe I'm putting a rosy interpretation on everything. But I've
seen unequivocally homophobic comments from skaters, and I'm really not
convinced that this was one of them. I think it ought to be acceptable
for straight male skaters to come out without having to get married. To
me, that's a pro-gay thing because the act of straight people coming out
challenges the notion that heterosexuality is always assumed.
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
Lorrie Kim
>you aren't?
Notice: More "gay" discussion. Skip if uninterested.
I think it is a big deal, at least at the Olympics. Why? Because
one of the most sacred and powerful acts of being human is finding and
declaring your identity. Most people only do this with their loved ones,
or in their religious worship. But the Olympics is like a sacred call:
"Athlete, define yourself. The moment is now. Who are you?"
That's what broke hearts about Todd Eldredge. We all know he is
mighty, but he missed this call three times and now, no matter how much
support he gets, he has an arduous struggle against believing that his
identity is "Olympic choker." This is also the glory of Kerrigan's
freeskate. She used the uproar to burn away all that was unnecessary, and
we saw her best, most essential self. That is what Olympians want.
When you're working towards that, spending years with one specific
evening circled on your calendar, you don't want the burden and the
distraction of an incorrect identity. You want to be able to declare who
you are. This is most important in a sport like figure skating where you
compete with your whole body and all your emotions. I believe incorrect
identity hampers skaters, whether it's someone burdened by having to be
closeted, or a straight person who is thought gay. I think the Olympics
is not the time to ask anyone to hold back on declaring who they are.
Lorrie Kim
lor...@plover.com
Tendemas
>pissed me off! Does that mean that every guy who *is* in touch with his
>feminine side is gay? Crap.
Different words carry different meanings. I once had a wonderful philosophical
discussion with a coworker about the difference between blame and
responsibility, excuses and explanations. It worked out that we agreed that
people should be able to accept responsibility for something without being
*blamed* , but we stareted out in heated disagreement because to me, blame
meant excatly what she thought *responsibility* meant....
This article was carefully edited for dramatic effect, and seems to have
accomplished what it set out to do; fan the flames of controversy. Elvis
Stojko has an unfortunate tendency to bubble when he speaks -- he say the same
thing three or four times with slight variations, which leaves his remarks way
wide open for misinterpretation.
(Picabo Street has the same tendency. My spouse and I had a great deal of fun
editing her comments before the Giant Slalom so that it seemed she was bbeing
insufferably arrogant. It was sadly easy, even tho' she barely mentioned her
competition.)
In any case, for those who keep wondering why he brings up the topic when it
just makes thing worse, my 2 cents worth: he really, truly doesn't care. He
*isn't* insecure about his butch self-image, so he's comfortable talking about
it, and of course, the press just has to ask.
It gets him into trouble every time, so if he did care what people thought of
his sexuality, he'd stop answering, or refuse to discuss it.
Is that logical? I dunno. It's only my interpretation.
---tendemas
JChromis
When this thread started, under a different name, the quote was; "I don't have
a feminine side, I am a man." Has the quote changed as it went down the
thread, or was the original quoter incorrect? The two quotes certainly have
different meanings!
Debby M. Fortin
In article <19980215042...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
revj...@aol.com (Revjoelle) wrote:
>Those judges just seem terribly enamored of Illia
There's a reason for that. This kid makes things just look too darn easy, and
that program was a masterpiece IMHO. His speed, his constant use of
connecting moves, his ability to highlight the nuances of the music, etc. etc.
Yes, I'm one of those enamoured with this brilliant, brilliant skater.
Cheers,
Debby
Debby M. Fortin
In article <B10BE66...@209.109.225.156>,
"Benjamin Smith" <be...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>As far as Ilia, sorry to say, I think many are enamoured to his looks, rosy
>cheeks and all. If he looked different (like Yagudin perhaps?) and skated
>as he skates, would he still get so much approval.
Benjamin,
As a judge myself, I can honestly say his looks have nothing to do with what
judges see in this skater. In fact, he is rather gangly, he wears bizarre
costumes, and his hair is often flying uncontrollably, thus it could be said
these things may detract from his skating. However, his brilliance on the
ice is very real, and this is what enamours me anyway.
Debby
Tendemas
jchr...@aol.com (JChromis) writes:
<<When this thread started, under a different name, the quote was; "I don't
have
a feminine side, I am a man." Has the quote changed as it went down the
thread, or was the original quoter incorrect? The two quotes certainly have
different meanings! >>
Okay, here's the quote in context as presented in Newsweek 2/16/98. (Not, mind
you, necessarily what Stojko said in full. It's no longer a journalistic
requirement to admit when you're snipping and clipping....)
"Toller Cranston, a Canadian skating great who became a prominent coach, has
accused Elvis of stagnating as a skater because he's petrified of being thought
the least bit effeminate.
"Stojko finds that notion ridiculous. By way of demonstration, he daintily
points a toe (ed note: I find it hard to picture Elvis ever being dainty, no
matter how pointed his toes got....) then points out that toe-pointing is as
much a part of martial arts as ballet.
'"That I'm scared to get in touch with my feminine side is baloney," he says.
"I don't have a feminine side. Maybe if I were gay, but I'm not. A soft side,
yes. But a man can have a sense of command and still be soft and sensitive."'
So. There it is. Semantics or insecurity, you make the call.
---tendemas
Revjoelle
>There's a reason for that. This kid makes things just look too darn easy, and
that program was a masterpiece IMHO. His speed, his constant use of connecting
moves, his ability to highlight the nuances of the music,
I guess I think he sacrificed a lot of the choreography, footwork and
connecting moves from last year for the jumps this year. You really think
there was more in between the jumps in his program than Todd? Because I
didn't see it.
Marie L. Hughes
In article <6c9u9r$lb0$1...@picasso.op.net> , lor...@plover.com (Lorrie Kim)
wrote:
> To me, Stojko was only saying he's different from gay skaters.
Well in that he isn't gay, he's different from them. But in other ways? It's
not like there is a 'gay' way of skating that all gay skaters do. Some do,
some don't. Some skate like Elvis! So, I think he's being overly defensive
here.
> I
>also found a subtext of "Other men do have a feminine side, and that is
>valid. There are gay people in skating, and that is valid. It's just not
>me." Maybe I'm putting a rosy interpretation on everything.
I'd vote for rosy since I didn't interpret the words that way. I interpreted
them as 'ohmigod, he really is a homophobe and here I've been defending him
all these years!" :) Maybe the truth is somewhere in between??
> But I've
>seen unequivocally homophobic comments from skaters,
I guess I've been lucky enough not have seen any of those...
> and I'm really not
>convinced that this was one of them.
Well, I'm still not 100% convinced but the Newsweek article did put a dent
in my 'Elvis is not a homophobe' certainty.
> I think it ought to be acceptable
>for straight male skaters to come out without having to get married. To
>me, that's a pro-gay thing because the act of straight people coming out
>challenges the notion that heterosexuality is always assumed.
Sounds good to me. The difficulty is in walking the line between saying "I'm
telling you my sexuality because you shouldn't just assume I'm straight" and
being defensive out it. Sometimes Elvis crosses over IMO.
Marie L. Hughes
In article <19980217044...@ladder03.news.aol.com> ,
revj...@aol.com (Revjoelle) wrote:
>>There's a reason for that. This kid makes things just look too darn easy,
and
>that program was a masterpiece IMHO. His speed, his constant use of
connecting
>moves, his ability to highlight the nuances of the music,
>
>I guess I think he sacrificed a lot of the choreography, footwork and
>connecting moves from last year for the jumps this year. You really think
>there was more in between the jumps in his program than Todd? Because I
>didn't see it.
>
Absolutely! He was always doing something interesting even when he wasn't
doing a particular trick.
That footwork in the short that Scotty thought was 'easy' was full of
connecting moves and not just turn, turn, turn. In that way, it was much
more imaginative that what the other guys were doing and not as easy as it
looked.
IMO, of course. :)
Gerald Olchowy
In article <19980217042...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, tend...@aol.com (Tendemas) writes:
|> '"That I'm scared to get in touch with my feminine side is baloney," he says.
|> "I don't have a feminine side. Maybe if I were gay, but I'm not. A soft side,
|> yes. But a man can have a sense of command and still be soft and sensitive."'
|>
|> So. There it is. Semantics or insecurity, you make the call.
|>
I've been on university campuses half my life...and even I find treading
the minefields of political correctness daunting...
...it is why politicians have speech writers.
To expect an athlete to master politically correct speech so as to not
offend anyone or group in any possible way is expecting a bit much.
Elvis is not homophobic...by the definition of some people around here,
any man who claims to be heterosexual is homophobic.
Does the fact the Kurt Browning made it obvious that he promiscuously
heterosexual make him a homophobe too?
--
Gerald
Benjamin Smith
On Mon, Feb 16, 1998 11:49 PM, Revjoelle <mailto:revj...@aol.com> wrote:
>>There's a reason for that. This kid makes things just look too darn
easy,
>and
>that program was a masterpiece IMHO. His speed, his constant use of
>connecting
>moves, his ability to highlight the nuances of the music,
>
>I guess I think he sacrificed a lot of the choreography, footwork and
>connecting moves from last year for the jumps this year. You really think
>there was more in between the jumps in his program than Todd? Because I
>didn't see it.
>
>
If skaters took out 2 jumps (what do they do in the long program, 8?) I
think then they'd have to skate more. Then we would see more in terms of
skating and not just jumping. Jumping is an exciting aspect of skating, but
there are other important elements of skating.
I sort of tend to want the skaters to hit the jumps but get them out of the
way so that I can focus on the skate and how well it matches the music.
Ben S.
Louis Epstein
Sakoz (sa...@aol.com) wrote:
: I agree with many of the comments that have made .
: I, too, root for whoever I like best, not the country. I was hoping
: Elvis would win. I've been a fan of his for many years. It's a
: shame he had the injury. His courage shows what a champion
: he truly is!
:
: I agree that Kulik had beautiful jumps but he was oh so boring
: in between jumps. I'm looking forward to watching his artistry
: grow.
:
: Yes, it was unfortunate that Todd did not skate well. His
: parents were really proud of him. They were clapping and
: smiling so big. Can you imagine how heartwarming that is
: to have a child make the Olympics?
Less of an achievement than his world championship.
: Yes I agree--the best thing about this Olympics so far is
: woman's hockey and a big favorite in the USA, Picabo Street.
: Picabo is so darling and so delightful! She has such a bubbly
: personality. She really fought for her gold medal--knee
: surgery and then a concussion only two weeks ago. She is
: a great representative of the USA. I hope she'll get
: endorsements because she is simply wonderful!
:
: Sue K
: Gurnee, Illinois
Did you see the commercial with her appearing dressed in various ways
based on a quote about her name...military dictator,rodeo clown,etc?
I think that quote actually dates to last Olys,and she decided to have
fun with it.
Trudi Marrapodi
In article <EoJD7...@news2.new-york.net>, l...@put.com (Louis Epstein) wrote:
[snip]
> : Yes I agree--the best thing about this Olympics so far is
> : woman's hockey and a big favorite in the USA, Picabo Street.
> : Picabo is so darling and so delightful! She has such a bubbly
> : personality. She really fought for her gold medal--knee
> : surgery and then a concussion only two weeks ago. She is
> : a great representative of the USA. I hope she'll get
> : endorsements because she is simply wonderful!
> :
> : Sue K
> : Gurnee, Illinois
>
> Did you see the commercial with her appearing dressed in various ways
> based on a quote about her name...military dictator,rodeo clown,etc?
> I think that quote actually dates to last Olys,and she decided to have
> fun with it.
Not to get too far off the topic, but I admit, I have come to love this
commercial. And I noticed a great detail in it just last night.
When the poet is saying, "If there were a scary dictator named 'Picabo
Street' the name might remind us of gasoline prices..." and they show a
gas pump dial with the price rolling, there's a little metal plate on the
pump--that old-fashioned kind with the name of the manufacturer worked in
a stylized script.
The name on the pump is "Represso."
I just love that.
Back to skating...
--
Trudi
"The Olympics...are about a monkey washing a cat."--David Letterman
"Brian Orser is the best figure skater of his generation"--Me
To mail me, take the "i" off my name (Binghamton did!)
Margaret Lamb
I loved Kulik's performance, but I must agree the shirt was strange.
One of the CBC commentators made a remark about the "giraffe suit".
Margaret
CTSteel
Kulik deserved serious costume demerits in both programs. However, he
compensated so nicely with superb skating, I was forced to forgive him.
CTS
^^^
Tendemas
William D. Branan" <bra...@isc.upenn.edu> writes:
<<Here's a quote from Kulik about his shirt:
"I doubt you can buy this shirt anywhere," he said. "It was done special
for me by a good mother in Moscow. I feel this shirt is lucky for me.
And now I do not expect to hear any more about this shirt because this
shirt has won.">>
I love this quote. It's done much to endear Ilia to me; I can just see him with
that little twinkle in his eyes when he says it.
But when I showed it to the Friends Who Watch With Me, the uniform consensus
was that he's an arrogant little so-and-so. I just don't get it. Can't a skater
make a humourous statement without somebody deciding it means they're arrogant
or posturing or putting someone else down?
just venting,
---tendemas
Mary E Tyler
but Kulik *is* arrogant. he is also inspiring, funny and sexy.
he just has no taste in clothes.
dejah
--
remove the nospam from the address to reply
"I hope I make myself obscure! I have need of obscurity now."- Robert
Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
A heated exchange of unread mail would be welcomed by all... Christensen
Marie L. Hughes
In article <19980217020...@ladder02.news.aol.com> ,
jchr...@aol.com (JChromis) wrote:
>
>
>When this thread started, under a different name, the quote was; "I don't
have
>a feminine side, I am a man." Has the quote changed as it went down the
>thread, or was the original quoter incorrect? The two quotes certainly
have
>different meanings!
>
There were two different articles with similar but not the same quotes. The
second article's quote was fuller than the first but it's impossible to know
if it was the same quote edited differently or two different quotes.
Virginia Blalock
On Tue, 17 Feb 1998 03:50:16 GMT, Debby M. Fortin <DFo...@netcom.ca>
wrote:
>In article <19980215042...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> revj...@aol.com (Revjoelle) wrote:
>
>>Those judges just seem terribly enamored of Illia
>
>There's a reason for that. This kid makes things just look too darn easy, and
>that program was a masterpiece IMHO. His speed, his constant use of
>connecting moves, his ability to highlight the nuances of the music, etc. etc.
>Yes, I'm one of those enamoured with this brilliant, brilliant skater.
How do you rate Ilia's program this year with that of last year?
Che
On 18 Feb 1998 16:15:51 GMT, tend...@aol.com (Tendemas) wrote:
> But when I showed it to the Friends Who Watch With Me, the uniform consensus
>was that he's an arrogant little so-and-so. I just don't get it. Can't a skater
>make a humourous statement without somebody deciding it means they're arrogant
>or posturing or putting someone else down?
No, he must bow to our supreme commands and attempt no humor or other
dangerous signs of an independent mind.\
WE HAVE RULED.
Marie L. Hughes
In article <34ebea4f...@news.earthlink.net> , skat...@usa.net
(Virginia Blalock) wrote:
I think the overall choreography last year was more complex and demanding.
But he also didn't ever skate it up to it's full potential. This year he
still has some great choreography and basic construction of his program even
if it wasn't as packed as last year but he also really executed it up to
it's potential. So, potentially last year's program was better but in what
actually happened on the ice, this year's was. IMO, of course.
rjwe...@sd.znet.com
Yes, they should have deducted from 1.0 to 2.0, mandatory
reduction for that giraffe print shirt.
Julia Gerace
>"I doubt you can buy this shirt anywhere," he said. "It was done special
>for me by a good mother in Moscow. I feel this shirt is lucky for me.
>And now I do not expect to hear any more about this shirt because this
>shirt has won.">>
I still think that it is by far the ugliest thing I've seen in a long
time. It looks like plastic giraffe print! (looks like Geoffrey from
Toys-R us) If I was a judge I would've taken off points for that
alone. Otherwise the skating was great. Though I still love Todd......
Julia
Pat Lebsack
I agree! I too would have taken off points for the giraffe shirt. It
distracted from his presentation. He won in spite of the awful shirt. It
certainly wasn't what brought him luck!
Cheryl Sturgeon
Scott Hamilton on Cutting Edge yesterday hit it right on the head. He
said nothing should grab your attention. Be it the shirt, the music, or
whatever. When it stands out from the overall look and performance, its
wrong. This is the answer to so many skaters problems and perhaps the
most outstanding thing about Michelle Kwan and Lu Chen. The whole thing
is in balance. And it was for Tara, too this time.
Cheryl
Carole Marcum
>
>
> Scott Hamilton on Cutting Edge yesterday hit it right on the head. He
> said nothing should grab your attention. Be it the shirt, the music, or
> whatever. When it stands out from the overall look and performance, its
> wrong. This is the answer to so many skaters problems and perhaps the
> most outstanding thing about Michelle Kwan and Lu Chen. The whole thing
> is in balance. And it was for Tara, too this time.
> Cheryl
I some cases I think a person chooses a costume to draw attention away from
important details--such as flailing arms, lack of good footwork, lack of
extension, line, edges, etc.
I do not say this is why Kulik chose his spotted bananna (<smile>) shirt, but
think of some skaters whose costumes detract from what is happening with their
feet.
On the other hand, I once wtched a tennis player who always wore a T-shirt the
same green as the fence backdrop. <smile> Very clever young lady. :)
I think many of the costumes are nice, but I loved the way Michelle had the
simplest of costumes that so beautifully emphasized her purity of line in her
skating, the quality of her skating.
Just a little something to think about. After all, if everyone is talking
about your costume, they are obviously watching your costume, so any small
flaws may go undetected.
Carole
Che
Lucky shirts probably have to be ugly. Just like lucky socks have to
be stiff!
Stefanida
A friend of mine who is not a figure skating fan asked why skaters can't all be
made to wear the same thing i.e. a uniform so their costumes could not detract
from their skating. I told him the costumes were part of the total package but
wondered what ng members thought?
Che
Over-reaction. Why should one loud shirt deprive us of the pleasure of
all the really wonderful costumes? People need to learn to focus.
Ilia did them a favor by giving them a chance to practice.
Phefner
>>A friend of mine who is not a figure skating fan asked why skaters can't all
>be
>>made to wear the same thing i.e. a uniform so their costumes could not
>detract
>>from their skating. I told him the costumes were part of the total package
>but
>>wondered what ng members thought?
>
>
Costumes are part of the artistry of figure skating. I can't imagine Lu Chen
skating to "Butterfly Lovers" or Michelle skating to "Lyra Angelica" in a
uniform! Heck, even gymnasts are starting to make their "uniforms" more like
costumes by snazzing up the color design, and using a little lace or some
beading.
Patricia
Che
On 22 Feb 1998 15:13:59 GMT, phe...@aol.com (Phefner) wrote:
>Costumes are part of the artistry of figure skating. I can't imagine Lu Chen
>skating to "Butterfly Lovers" or Michelle skating to "Lyra Angelica" in a
>uniform! Heck, even gymnasts are starting to make their "uniforms" more like
>costumes by snazzing up the color design, and using a little lace or some
>beading.
>
>Patricia
We tend to forget that the athletes get some pleasure out of this,
too. We shouldnt think only of what would make it better for us. Not
if it detracted from the reward to the competitors. I think the
ladies genuinely like these outfits, and that's enough for me. And
almost without exception, they please ME a lot! Liked the exhibition
outfits of Woetzel and Anissina. The arena temperature must have gone
up a degree or two!
Shushun0va
In article <19980222121...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, stef...@aol.com
(Stefanida) writes:
>A friend of mine who is not a figure skating fan asked why skaters can't all
>be
made to wear the same thing i.e. a uniform so their costumes could not
>detract
from their skating. I told him the costumes were part of the total
>package but
wondered what ng members thought?
I think a uniform would definetely make it look more sporty like.
Just as long as the skaters don't go overboard, it's fine.
Jam
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I know that I'm the best, and I won because I am the best". - Tara Lipinski
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stefanida
Jam said that a uniform might not be a bad idea for figure skaters instead of
costumes. To some extent, I agree. It would stop all the bitching about
people's costumes!!
Kaiju
Scott Hamilton *tried* to get that concept across back in 1984. It didn't
take. <sigh>
Kaiju
j...@cypress.com
In article <19980223013...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
shush...@aol.com (Shushun0va) wrote:
>
> In article <19980222121...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
stef...@aol.com
> (Stefanida) writes:
>
> >A friend of mine who is not a figure skating fan asked why skaters can't
all
> >be
> made to wear the same thing i.e. a uniform so their costumes could not
> >detract
> from their skating. I told him the costumes were part of the total
> >package but
> wondered what ng members thought?
>
> I think a uniform would definetely make it look more sporty like.
> Just as long as the skaters don't go overboard, it's fine.
>
That used to be the case many years ago. There was once an unwritten
expectation the all of the men will wear what we called monkey suits;
the short mess jackets and the rest of it in either black, white, gray
or brown or some combination of these. Take a look at any of the movie
film or kinescopes from the fifties and early sixties. Those who
refused to comply with this unwritten rule often got dinged by the
judges for it.
-jl John
Everything you know is wrong!
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Michalle S Gould
Kaiju (ka...@NOSPAM.ecn.com) wrote:
:
Am I the only person who thought Scott HJamilton's 'speedsuit' look was
extroardinarly silly looking? I mean - I love the guy, but I think that
was misguided. I thought he looked a lot more silly than someone wearing a
nice loose white shirt and black tights.
Michalle
Eda M. Tseinyev
Michalle S Gould wrote:
> Am I the only person who thought Scott HJamilton's 'speedsuit' look was
> extroardinarly silly looking? I mean - I love the guy, but I think that
> was misguided. I thought he looked a lot more silly than someone wearing a
> nice loose white shirt and black tights.
Well, at the time, being even more immature than I am now, my
brothers and I referred to Scott Hamilton as "Spidey" (for
Spiderman). I thought it looked terrible and I still do.
But all of the men wore godawful costumes back then. Brian
Orser was one of the few with any taste. All those bodysuits
with low necklines, exposing CHEST HAIR (barf!!!), accompanied
by a few sequin sprays, and with flaired legs... I can't
believe I kept watching. No wonder I liked dance the best.
Eda
Stacey D. A. Mercer
I must sat that men's outfits have improved a great deal over the
years. I am thankful that the men are banned from wearing any slevelees
costumes. No offense guys but I do not need to see your pit hair.
The ugliest costume I've ever seen......The purple number Brian Orser wore
at the Worlds in Ohio. Sorry Brian but I still love you.
Debby M. Fortin
In article <19980217044...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
revj...@aol.com (Revjoelle) wrote:
>I guess I think he sacrificed a lot of the choreography, footwork and
>connecting moves from last year for the jumps this year. You really think
>there was more in between the jumps in his program than Todd? Because I
>didn't see it.
I agree that Kulik did sacrifice some of the difficult footwork of last year
for the sake of the consistency of jumps, this year, but overall I do feel
he is the master of presentation right now with every movement having a
connection to the music. I think if you look at his program again, you will
see that he is constantly turning, and doing little stroking to connect the
elements without ever losing that blinding speed...something very important
in the judging of a program. Todd is great and I love the guy and find his
programs interesting, however, I feel that he slows down a lot on many of
the connections, beautiful as they are. Kulik can give the impression of
skating to both fast and slow sections well, yet constantly being at top
speed. I'd have to review both programs again to comment further, but I
know at the time, I was wowed by his skate.
Cheers,
Debby
Sarah Weinman
Debby M. Fortin wrote:
I agree that Kulik did sacrifice some of the difficult footwork of last year
> for the sake of the consistency of jumps, this year, but overall I do feel
> he is the master of presentation right now with every movement having a
> connection to the music. I think if you look at his program again, you will
> see that he is constantly turning, and doing little stroking to connect the
> elements without ever losing that blinding speed...something very important
> in the judging of a program. Todd is great and I love the guy and find his
> programs interesting, however, I feel that he slows down a lot on many of
> the connections, beautiful as they are. Kulik can give the impression of
> skating to both fast and slow sections well, yet constantly being at top
> speed. I'd have to review both programs again to comment further, but I
> know at the time, I was wowed by his skate.
It's obvious that Kulik took out some choreography in his free skate. But
equally obvious was the fact that he had to do it. His programs from 96/97 were
great on paper, but he never could coordinate the choreography with the jumps.
So because he concentrated so hard on making sure the choreography was
there...well...bye bye jumps. There are moves I absolutely adored and wish he
would bring back, like the spread eagle into a triple axel. But OTOH, Rhapsody
in Blue just wouldn't have worked with excessive choreography. Better to let
the skater interpret the music, but not to overdo it. Kulik handled it
beautifully. And having listened to the entire Rhapsody last night, I realized
that the cuts were really well done.
BTW, is that bent spread eagle he does a signature move or not? He seems to do
it in every program....at least for the last three seasons, that is for sure.
Sarah
Debby M. Fortin
In article <34FDA554...@netcom.ca>,
Sarah Weinman <wein...@netcom.ca> wrote:
>BTW, is that bent spread eagle he does a signature move or not? He seems
to do
>it in every program....at least for the last three seasons, that is for
sure.
Well he is a Tarasova student...you know, the coach of the Besti squat....:
) :-) Mind you , I believe he did a fair number of those in his 1996
programs before he went to her, but you can bet she loved 'em and encouraged
him to keep them. Sort of up there with Elvis' grabbing of the air with his
fist, non?....;-)
Cheers,
Debby
Ellyn Kestnbaum
> Sarah Weinman <wein...@netcom.ca> wrote:
>
>>BTW, is that bent spread eagle he does a signature move or not? He seems
>to do
>>it in every program....at least for the last three seasons, that is for
>sure.
>
>Well he is a Tarasova student...you know, the coach of the Besti squat....:
>) :-) Mind you , I believe he did a fair number of those in his 1996
>programs before he went to her, but you can bet she loved 'em and encouraged
Actually, she did choreograph the '96 programs -- she just wasn't his
"coach" yet. I guess the real question would be whether he did them in
'95 and earlier when he was doing his own choreography. I can't remember,
from the programs I have seen . . . I'd have to go back and watch on tape.
-Ellyn
Alan Potter
Stacey D. A. Mercer wrote in message ...
>> Michalle S Gould wrote:
>>
>> >I thought he looked a lot more silly than someone wearing a
>> >nice loose white shirt and black tights.
> I must sat that men's outfits have improved a great deal over the
>years. I am thankful that the men are banned from wearing any slevelees
>costumes. No offense guys but I do not need to see your pit hair.
I am a complete newbie to figure (or any) skating, I came here because I
enjoyed watching some of the skating on the olympics (and wished it had been
on at better times so I could have seen more!). I do, however, dance as a
hobby.
I've tried to avoid the who-hates-whom stuff on the group; it doesn't leave
much :-) One thing that was left is costume discussion. I remember
reading that the rules that prevent ladies from showing too much of their
bum cheeks also prevents men from wearing tights.
Now I read the above, and indeed some of the men I saw on TV appeared to be
wearing tights...or something jolly close. So what are the rules? And if
men are banned from wearing tights as part of the costume, why?
They're surely the most sensible thing to wear for dancing, whether on ice
or on less slippery surfaces?
regards,
//alan
PS It also seems pretty bizarre to me that men can't wear sleeveless tops
whereas ladies are to wear them if they want. Slightly offensive, in a way.
But it's your sport, none of my business!
S.Dennis
Alan:
Re men and sleeveless shirts - could have something to do with hairy pits -
eeeeeewwwww. Since ladies shave theirs - I guess that's why it's okay for
them.
Re the no-no on tights for men - I know they're banned and have been since
around 1994(??) - not sure why - my guess is they're too form fitting -
great frontal views and of bums (speaking as a woman, of course).........
I think what you see a lot of the men wearing that look like tights are
pants made of lycra with footstraps and some with boot covers too.
I remember Sasha Zhulin,Artur Dmetriev and Sergei Ponomarenko wore them a
few years ago (and looked delicious in them too!) I think more Europeans
and Russians wore them - I don't really recall seeing any North American
males wearing them....
Shelagh
Alan Potter wrote in message <6dp9ec$20s$1...@mrnews.mro.dec.com>...
Louis Epstein
S.Dennis (don'tspams...@man.net) wrote:
: Alan:
: Re men and sleeveless shirts - could have something to do with hairy pits -
: eeeeeewwwww. Since ladies shave theirs - I guess that's why it's okay for
: them.
:
: Re the no-no on tights for men - I know they're banned and have been since
: around 1994(??) -
certainly before that.
: not sure why - my guess is they're too form fitting -
RobinskiNH
>Re the no-no on tights for men - I know they're banned and have been since
>: around 1994(??) -
Katarina Witt was really hassled in 1994 about tights for her Robin Hood
program - she made the point that Mr. Hood & his merry minions didn't go
running through Sherwood Forest in little short skirts . . .
-------
Robin
"Foolish Consistency is the Hobgoblin of Little Minds" - Emerson
Louis Epstein
RobinskiNH (robin...@aol.com) wrote:
: >Re the no-no on tights for men - I know they're banned and have been since
: >: around 1994(??) -
:
: Katarina Witt was really hassled in 1994 about tights for her Robin Hood
: program - she made the point that Mr. Hood & his merry minions didn't go
: running through Sherwood Forest in little short skirts . . .
As a female she's allowed to wear tights on the ice.
S.Dennis
Re the ban on tights for men:
I just found some info in "Figure Skating: a Celebration" by Beverley Smith.
According to her:
"Zhulin made a habit of wearing tights, until the ISU ruled them out for
male dancers for the 1993 season. As of July 1, 1994, no male skater in any
discipline is permitted to wear tights."
>S.Dennis (don'tspams...@man.net) wrote:
>: Re the no-no on tights for men - I know they're banned and have been
since
>: around 1994(??) -
Louis Epstein wrote in message:
>certainly before that.
>