Linda Fratianne vs Lisa Marie Allen
TCAXEL
When the "rivalry" thread got started I was hoping someone would mention LInda
Fratianne vs Lisa Marie Allen and be able to get some insights. I was intrigued
because the skating of Allen through the years that I've seen has always
impressed me. Never having seen her in her "prime" I was wondering if she was
that good back in her eligible days? I seem to recall from articles that
people said that she had more "presence" on the ice than Linda did and that her
long program was actually placed higher than Linda's at one or two nationals.
Were her figures that much worse than Fratianne's? Was part of it holding the
champ up at nationals? (please, this isn't a knock on Linda) Was Linda F.
technically better, with more triples, better speed, faster spins, etc? Did
Lisa Marie Allen not respond well to the pressure? Someone posted awhile back
that Fratianne's dominance at Nationals (Four straight '77-'80) wasn't as
complete as it appeared because she lost on several ocasions separate portions
of the competitions. I don't necessarily buy that, because if the placements
has been preset by the figures,it's was harder to play catchup back then.
(Apparently she didn't win either short or long at Nationals in '80) Even if
she wasn't first in figures, I doubt if a strong freeskater was ever placed
ahead of her in figures during Nationals. Obviously, Linda was very good at
figures and technically was a good jumper. (OK, that's why she always won) I
read some long ago articles that said that Lisa Marie Allen thought(not
surprisingly) the cards were always stacked against her. Obviously there was
no love lost between her and Linda.
I'm very curious because unlike Tina Noyes(vs Fleming), or Julie Lynn Holmes(vs
Janet Lynn), Lisa Marie Allen was considered more "artistic" and "elegant" than
her main competitor, but could never grasp the big prize. My guess is that
Lisa Marie Allen came up right at the moment when jumps counted enough ( a la
Fratiane) to offset her artistry. I do recall that in '81 she was blown away by
Zayak and didn't even make the Olympic team.
Any opinions or observations from people who were there?
TCAXEL
Teresa
Allen came in 3rd at 1981 Nationals and didn't go to Worlds (maybe we
were only allowed 2 slots that year?)
> Any opinions or observations from people who were there?
I wasn't actually "there" and I don't remember a lot of the history of
the Allen/Fratianne rivalry, but I really got hooked on skating in
1980 and I was aware of the rivalry between the 2 skaters. I used to
read everything I could find about skating! Unfortuantely, I don't
have any tapes of their competitions, so I'm going strictly by memory
here... Lisa Marie Allen was tall and graceful, Linda was tiny and
more fiery. I think Linda attempted 2 triples in her free skate and
Lisa would do one. Linda usually built up a lead in the figures
portion of the event (worth 30% at the time) and even if Lisa beat her
in the long program, I don't think she beat her by enough for it to
make a difference in the overall standings. The scoring system was
different then than it is now (no factored placements, they used total
scores and ordinals, but I don't remember the details), so an early
lead had more significance than it does now.
Personally, I was a Fratianne fan, but it was an Olympic year and I
was just a kid, so I can admit that I might have been rooting for the
American favorite. If it means anything, I think I remember that Dick
Button liked her too :)
On a related note, I saw Lisa Marie Allen on a tv show last year (some
pro event) and it really bugged me that after all of these years, she
still sounded bitter about the judging in the late 70s-early 80s!
You'd think 20 years would shake off some of that bitterness! Does
anyone know if she ever placed ahead of Fratianne at Worlds?
Teresa
Please remove the 'x' from my address to reply.
TCAXEL
>Does anyone know if she ever placed ahead of Fratianne at Worlds?
I can answer that one. Fraianne was either first or second at Worlds from '77
thru '79 and third in '80 while Lisa Marie Allen never won a world medal.
TCAXEL
Lee A Ratay
I personally was not at any of these competitions, but I vividly recall
watching these women on TV. I remember the announcers commenting on Lisa
Marie's height and that they believed it was an obsticle to her mastering
reliable triples.
Does anyone know what Linda is doing now? I'm happy to watch Lisa Marie
again.
Claudia
(snip)
My guess is that
> Lisa Marie Allen came up right at the moment when jumps counted enough (
a la
> Fratiane) to offset her artistry. I do recall that in '81 she was blown
away by
> Zayak and didn't even make the Olympic team.
>
Marlene A Koenig
Lisa Marie definitely had a presence on the ice -- long,
elegant line. This is not to diminsh at all the accomplishments
of Linda Fratianne - including her performance at Nationals in
Hartford???? where she literally skated without the benefit of
electricity - she didn't need to because the electricity was
generated by Linda on the ice -
lisa Marie Allen was a skater similar to Caryn Kadavy in style --
and Lisa Marie would have achieved a lot more as a pro if those opportunities
had been available at that time --
--
and author of Queen Victoria's Descendants,
published by Rosvall Royal Books
Publisher of Royal Book News, the only newsletter for and about
Royal Books
PosterBoy
Lee A Ratay wrote in message <01bd7f8a$128d33a0$1170edcc@default>...
>I personally was not at any of these competitions, but I vividly recall
>watching these women on TV. I remember the announcers commenting on Lisa
>Marie's height and that they believed it was an obsticle to her mastering
>reliable triples.
>
>Does anyone know what Linda is doing now? I'm happy to watch Lisa Marie
>again.
>
Linda is living in Sun Valley, raising her daughter, teaching some...and
skating the
occasional show. I recently saw her on a short tour (Florida, Arizona,
California, etc.)
which she had stepped in to help out at the last minute. She is still a
treat to watch.
And delightful to spend time with.
Cheers.
MCleoMarie
>Lisa Marie definitely had a presence on the ice -- long,
>elegant line.
I believe Lisa Marie is 5'10"... Very striking presence on the ice -and a
very lyrical and lovely skater.
NLathy
What happened to Sandy Lenz, who was the other American on the 1980 Olympic
team with Fratianne and Allen?
Nat
"The knowledge of picture dealers has its value, but listen not to their
criticism when your heart is touched by genius."-Ralph Waldo Emerson
Lux4989199
Uh oh, now I'm getting confused - wasn't Priscilla Hill on the 1980 Olympic
Team?
fg...@ucg.com
I remember watching the 1980 Nationals on TV and thinking Lisa Marie was
jobbed by judges who simply weren't going to send the defending national and
world champion (Linda) to the Olympics as a silver medalist.
However, beyond that my memory isnt very detailed. I remember Linda winning
the free program although I thought Lisa Marie was superior -- however if the
situation was, as one poster put it, that Lisa Marie won the free but not by
enough a margin to overcome Linda's earlier lead, I dont think I would have
felt it was so unjust.
And, I assume after all this time, that the announcers made a hash of
explaining the scoring rules to the audience.
Fred
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NLathy
Lux4989199 writes:
<<Uh oh, now I'm getting confused - wasn't Priscilla Hill on the 1980 Olympic
Team?>>
No, Sandy Lenz was on the 1980 Olympic team and she finished 9th. Lenz didn't
go to worlds that year though. Elaine Zayak did and finished 11th. Priscilla
Hill went to worlds in 78 and 81 according to the USFSA media guide. BTW, Lisa
Marie Allen finished 5th at the 80 Olympics.