All Black brothers -- how many?
Tilak Ratnanather
brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
Brooke (Zinzan & Robin)
Whetton (Alan & Gary)
Meads (Colin & Stan)
England:
Underwood (Rory & Tony)
Scotland:
Hastings (Gavin & Scott)
Any more?
Tilak
Biomedical Engineering/Otolaryngology trat...@bme.jhu.edu
The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21205
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
`A room without books is a body without a soul', Cicero. CVI-XLIII B.C.
Tim Harrison
>It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
>brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
>other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
Jeez mate! What about THE most famous rugby brothers - from Oztralia, of
course - the Ella fellas!!!!! And I'm almost sure they're the only aboriginal
brothers to rep for their country...grin...
Cheers for now
F. Jacot Guillarmod
>It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
>brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
>other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
> Brooke (Zinzan & Robin)
> Whetton (Alan & Gary)
> Meads (Colin & Stan)
>England:
> Underwood (Rory & Tony)
>Scotland:
> Hastings (Gavin & Scott)
>Any more?
Presumably these should be in overlapping time periods and have played
in the same team? Admittedly these didn't exactly "spring to mind",
though, so I had to look them up.
South Africa: (back to WW II)
Du Plessis (Willie 80-82, Carel 81-86, Michael 84-86)
Botha (Naas 80-86, Darius 81)
Fourie (Polla 74, Carel 74-75)
Snyman (Dawie 71-77, Jackie 74)
McCallum (Ian 70-74, Roy 74)
Fry (Dennis 51-52, Stephen 51-55)
...
Versfeld (Marthinus 1891, Charles 1891) - Loftus Versfeld rugby
stadium in Pretoria is named after Marthinus, I think.
There are 26 x two brothers listed, eight additional ones not listed
above who played simultaneously, 3 x three brothers of whom 1 set
played simultaneously - the other two sets had two playing
simultaneously, 5 x father + son (including Louis+Uli Schmidt and
Felix+Morne du Plessis), and 1 x two brothers and a son/nephew.
--
F.F. Jacot Guillarmod PO Box 94 \ | cc...@hippo.ru.ac.za
Computing Services Grahamstown 6140 \ / Fax: +27 461 25049
Rhodes University South Africa ;___*/ Phone: +27 461 318284
The views expressed above are not necessarily those of Rhodes University
Steve Howie
: It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
: brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
: other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
: Brooke (Zinzan & Robin)
: Whetton (Alan & Gary)
: Meads (Colin & Stan)
: England:
: Underwood (Rory & Tony)
: Scotland:
:
: Hastings (Gavin & Scott)
- Finlay and Jim Calder
- Gordon and Peter Brown
I think the Camberaberos had a brother act for France too
Scotty
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Aaron Smith
says...
>In article <1995062115...@mail.cs.utexas.edu> trat...@bme.jhu.edu
>>It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
>>brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
>>other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
Also Robbie and Bruce Deans, though they never (as far as I know) played in
the same AB team.
Aaron
--
"Is this how it's supposed to be?" ... King's X
Frank Cornelissen
>
>In article <1995062115...@mail.cs.utexas.edu> trat...@bme.jhu.edu (Tilak Ratnanather) writes:
>
>
>>It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
>>brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
>>other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
>
>> Whetton (Alan & Gary)
>> Meads (Colin & Stan)
>
> Cooper (Greg and Matthew) - although I'm not sure if
>these two played in the team at the same time.
>
>Tracey.
Batty
Frank
Nicolas Sechaud (These OB)
|> In <1995062115...@mail.cs.utexas.edu> trat...@bme.jhu.edu (Tilak Ratnanather) writes:
|>
|> >It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
|> >brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
|> >other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
|> > Brooke (Zinzan & Robin)
|> > Whetton (Alan & Gary)
|> > Meads (Colin & Stan)
|>
|>
|> > Underwood (Rory & Tony)
|>
|> >Scotland:
|> > Hastings (Gavin & Scott)
|>
|>
|> Presumably these should be in overlapping time periods and have played
|> in the same team? Admittedly these didn't exactly "spring to mind",
|> though, so I had to look them up.
|>
|> South Africa: (back to WW II)
|>
|> Du Plessis (Willie 80-82, Carel 81-86, Michael 84-86)
|> Botha (Naas 80-86, Darius 81)
|> Fourie (Polla 74, Carel 74-75)
|> Snyman (Dawie 71-77, Jackie 74)
|> McCallum (Ian 70-74, Roy 74)
|> Fry (Dennis 51-52, Stephen 51-55)
|> ...
|> Versfeld (Marthinus 1891, Charles 1891) - Loftus Versfeld rugby
|> stadium in Pretoria is named after Marthinus, I think.
|>
|> There are 26 x two brothers listed, eight additional ones not listed
|> above who played simultaneously, 3 x three brothers of whom 1 set
|> played simultaneously - the other two sets had two playing
|> simultaneously, 5 x father + son (including Louis+Uli Schmidt and
|> Felix+Morne du Plessis), and 1 x two brothers and a son/nephew.
|>
|> --
|> F.F. Jacot Guillarmod PO Box 94 \ | cc...@hippo.ru.ac.za
|> Computing Services Grahamstown 6140 \ / Fax: +27 461 25049
|> Rhodes University South Africa ;___*/ Phone: +27 461 318284
|> The views expressed above are not necessarily those of Rhodes University
Some french brothers with the impressive Spanghero family:
both (Claude and Walter) of them were in the french team in the 60's, but there
were five Spanghero brothers in the pack of their club, Narbonne I think, wich
one of the best team in France!!!
I think it's a world record. Is it really?
Salut
nico.
Tim Davie
>
> In article <nelsont.20...@AgResearch.cri.nz>, nel...@AgResearch.cri.nz (Tracey Nelson) says:
> >
> >
> >
> >>It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
> >>brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
> >>other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
> >
> >> Brooke (Zinzan & Robin)
> >> Whetton (Alan & Gary)
> >> Meads (Colin & Stan)
> >
> > Cooper (Greg and Matthew) - although I'm not sure if
> >these two played in the team at the same time.
> >
Whiting (Graham & Peter)
Clarke (Don & ?)
Tim
Marc Vaisset
: It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
: brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
: other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
: Brooke (Zinzan & Robin)
: Whetton (Alan & Gary)
: Meads (Colin & Stan)
: England:
: Underwood (Rory & Tony)
: Scotland:
:
: Hastings (Gavin & Scott)
- Finlay and Jim Calder
- Gordon and Peter Brown
I think the Camberaberos had a brother act for France too
Scotty
--
Yes : Lilian & Guy Camberabero in late 60's (1968 1st french Grand Slam).
and Walter & Claude Spanghero in 70's
Guy & Andre Boniface in early 60's
Jean & Maurice Prat in 50's
That's all for today
marc
--
Marc Vaisset (Marc.V...@laas.fr)
Tracey Nelson
>It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
>brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
>other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
> Brooke (Zinzan & Robin)
> Whetton (Alan & Gary)
> Meads (Colin & Stan)
Also for NZ: Bachop (Graeme and Stephen)
Cooper (Greg and Matthew) - although I'm not sure if
these two played in the team at the same time.
Tracey.
AKAMOKE
Ellas for Australia in the eighties
D.James
NZ
Brownlie Cyril & ?. One of them was the first international player
to be sent off - v England 1924.
ENGLAND:
SCOTLAND:
Milne - 3 front row players - Kenny (still playing for Scotland)
& props Gordon & Iain. All 3 never played together.
FRANCE
>I think the Camberaberos had a brother act for France too
>Scotty
Didier was the son of one & nephew of the other.
WALES - can't think of many despite all those similar surnames. I'm not sure
that any of these examples played in the same team.
Williams - Bleddyn & Lloyd (plus several other brothers who played for
Cardiff.
Moriarty - Richard & Paul
Llewwllyn - Gareth & Glyn
Near misses - Clive John would have played with Barry but for injury. 3rd
brother Alan was near too.
AUSTRALIA
More than one Ella brother surely.
More than one Mclean too?
Dick James
Gavan Tredoux
: >It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
: >brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
: >other national teams. Names that come to mind are:
Apparently this is because their family tree doesn't fork.
--
Gavan Tredoux, Cape Town
ga...@mosaic.co.za
Gerald Copp
> Clarke (Don & ? ...
.. Ian, a prop who, like ZZB on Saturday, dropped a famous goal,
but was playing for the Barbarians in Cardiff AGAINST the All Blacks
at the end of their 1967 (or 1964) tour.
The drop was from a mark (then permitted anywhere in the field of
play, not just inside the 22) and from around the NZ 10 yard line,
about the same position/distance as ZZB's, but from the left-hand side
of the pitch (under the south stand, towards the Taff end).
It was certainly the first and, I think, the only time a tourist
was asked to play in the end-of-tour Barbarians match against his
own touring side.
I don't know that Don and Ian played for New Zealand in
international matches together, though.
Reg Humphries
Don and Ian Clarke played together for NZ on many occasions. Don,
two years younger than Ian, played in 1956 through 1964 in 89
matches including 31 tests. Ian played for NZ from 1953 through
1964 in 83 games, including 24 tests. Ian was only the second
member of a touring side to be selected to the Barbarians team
to that point, the other being the Australian forward, Nick
Shehadie in 1958. Ian opened the scoring with a dropped goal as a
result of a fair catch 35 yards from the goal.
The game was considered by the English critics to be one of the
best executed games of rugby ever seen on Cardiff Arms Park.
Until the All Blacks win the fourth RWC there in 1999 ;-)
Reg Humphries
Up to and including 1984, thirty-one sets of brothers played for
New Zealand. Included in this number are the Brownlie and Nicholls
brothers - three from each family represented New Zealand.
Of these 31, fifteen pairs of brothers played in Test matches
for NZ
Two of the Brownlies and Nicholls, Ian and Don Clarke, the Cookes
the Donalds, Dunns, and Fannings. The Hadleys and Jim and Laurie
Haig, Colin and Stan Meads of course, Kevin and Billy Meates, and
the McMinns and Purdues. Bob and his brother, Kevin Stuart, played
in tests ( Bob was a captain), and the Taylor boys.
Eleven fathers and sons have worn the All Black jersey. Is the
G.M. Mehrtens who lived from 1907-1954 and who played for the
All Blacks in 1928 - 3 games - and who represented Canterbury
the grandfather of Andrew Mehrtens?
Gerald Copp
>
> Tim Davie <T.J.A...@qmw.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Clarke (Don & ? ...
>
> but was playing for the Barbarians in Cardiff AGAINST the All Blacks
> at the end of their 1967 (or 1964) tour.
>
> The drop was from a mark (then permitted anywhere in the field of
> play, not just inside the 22) and from around the NZ 10 yard line,
> about the same position/distance as ZZB's, but from the left-hand side
> of the pitch (under the south stand, towards the Taff end).
> I don't know that Don and Ian played for New Zealand in
> international matches together, though.
To answer my own post, Ian Clarke played for the Barbarians against
the New Zealanders on the 1964 tour, captained by Wilson Winnery. He
won caps in the late 50s to early 60s and played regularly with his
brother, Don ŚThe Camelą Clarke.
The James brothers, from Swansea, played for Wales and are claimed to
have been the first half-backs, alternating during a game between
inside-half and outside-half as they saw fit.
Ross Finlayson
>Up to and including 1984, thirty-one sets of brothers played for
>New Zealand. Included in this number are the Brownlie and Nicholls
>brothers - three from each family represented New Zealand.
>Of these 31, fifteen pairs of brothers played in Test matches
>for NZ
>Two of the Brownlies and Nicholls, Ian and Don Clarke, the Cookes
>the Donalds, Dunns, and Fannings. The Hadleys and Jim and Laurie
>Haig, Colin and Stan Meads of course, Kevin and Billy Meates, and
>the McMinns and Purdues. Bob and his brother, Kevin Stuart, played
>in tests ( Bob was a captain), and the Taylor boys.
Don't forget the Going brothers of North Auckland. Sid Going, of course,
was All Black halfback from 1968 to ~1977, and was perhaps the best halfback
ever to play for NZ. His brother Ken - a fullback - was also named to the
All Blacks (belatedly, IMHO) in the mid '70s for a tour of Britain.
Unfortunately he played disappointingly on this tour, and was not named to
the All Blacks after this. Finally, brother Brian was a brilliant 1st 5/8
(flyhalf), but was never picked as an All Black. I've always felt that this
was a major mistake; Brian Going would on my list of the best New Zealand
players to have missed out on All Black selection.
Ross.
Gerald Copp
> >Tilak Ratnanather wrote:
> >
> >>It seems to me that there is a greater preponderance of
> >>brothers playing in the same All Blacks team than in
> >>other national teams.
According to the programmes for the Llanelli v South Africa and the
Wales v South Africa games last year, 30 sets of brothers have played
for the Springboks, the latest being Pieter Muller, the current centre,
and his elder brother, Heldgard (1986-89). I presume the information
comes from the Press Officers who were on that tour. There is no
indication of how many played together, but looking at the dates given
only in half the cases was it even possible (not including the three
sets below).
Three sets of three brothers have represented South Africa:
Fredddie (1910-13), Dick (1910-13) and John (1912-13) LUYT
Jaap (1951-56), Dolf (1953) and Martiens (1960) BEKKER
Willie (1980-2), Carel (1981-9) and Michael (1984-89) DU PLESSIS.
The Luyt brothers played together against Scotland, Wales and England
on the 1912-13 tour, a unique record.
Five pairs of father and son have played for South Africa, Felix (1949)
and Morne (1971-80) du Plessis being the only pair to have captained
South Africa in international matches.
Henry Walker played for South Africa in 1910, his brother Alf Walker
played in 1921-24 and Alf's son Harry played in 1953-6.
Hwyl fawr,
Geraldus Cambrensis
Gerald Copp
>
> The game [Barabarians v. Wilson Whinery's 1964 ABs] was considered
> by the English critics to be one of the
> best executed games of rugby ever seen on Cardiff Arms Park.
> Until the All Blacks ...
.. lost in January 1973. Welsh critics thought that one of the best
game of rugby ever seen on Cardiff Arms Park.
Nicolas Sechaud (These OB)
Was it this game Barbarians AB? If it was, it was one of the best rugby game I've
ever seen: totally crazy.
Salut
nico.