Jonah Lomu criticises new all-black England kit

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Mentalguy2k8

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Jul 28, 2011, 11:13:53 AM7/28/11
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It's "disrespectful" apparently:


New Zealand legend Jonah Lomu has criticised England's decision to use an
all-black away kit at the World Cup.

England's new change strip - the same colour as New Zealand's 127-year-old
All Black jersey - will be worn in the game against Argentina on 10
September.

"For me, in some ways you are just disrespecting the legacy of past
players," Lomu told BBC Sport.

"The All Blacks are synonymous with being in all black, and England the
white shirt they have."

Martin Johnson's side will revert to white for their other group games
against Georgia, Romania and Scotland.

But should there be a further clash in later rounds, the black kit could
return.

Hosts New Zealand have said they have no qualms with England wearing it, but
Lomu is less comfortable.

"I will find it difficult to watch England in a different shirt," stated the
36-year-old, who scored 37 tries in 63 appearances for the All Blacks before
retiring in 2007.

"I am one of those people who was brought up on the history of rugby,
watching the great players of the past who have worn the England shirt and
also the All Blacks'.

"I will find it pretty weird to look across the paddock and see them run out
not wearing that famous white uniform."

The All Blacks have not won the World Cup since the inaugural tournament
staged in New Zealand and Australia in 1987, but they will enter the 9
September-23 October tournament as favourites.

"It is theirs to lose," Lomu suggested. "It is on their home ground, they
know the grounds better than any other team, they will have their fans there
and the support around them from their own families.

"That is a huge advantage but at the same time, the players still have to do
their job and do it well."


Andrew Dunford

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Jul 28, 2011, 8:14:30 PM7/28/11
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"Mentalguy2k8" <Mental...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j0rubd$3er$1...@dont-email.me...


> It's "disrespectful" apparently:
>
>
> New Zealand legend Jonah Lomu has criticised England's decision to use an
> all-black away kit at the World Cup.
>
> England's new change strip - the same colour as New Zealand's 127-year-old
> All Black jersey - will be worn in the game against Argentina on 10
> September.
>
> "For me, in some ways you are just disrespecting the legacy of past
> players," Lomu told BBC Sport.

I was going to write something about Lomu not being the sharpest tool in the
shed, but his comments actually are not dissimilar from what a number of
respected rugby people in New Zealand have said. We're an insular lot at
times...

<snip>

Andrew

JohnO

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Jul 28, 2011, 9:07:29 PM7/28/11
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Maybe - but to be fair the comments are along the lines of
'disrespecting the [white England] jersey' rather than claims they are
trying to pinch the ABs' mojo or some-such.

kev or lou

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Jul 28, 2011, 9:22:37 PM7/28/11
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cue thieving allblacks stealing off neath

Andrew Dunford

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Jul 28, 2011, 11:08:13 PM7/28/11
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"JohnO" <john...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j0t14f$auf$2...@dont-email.me...

Oh yeah - perhaps I should have read it properly the first time.

In that case, to some extent I agree with Lomu. All teams are required to
have a change strip and it can be any old colour, but if they start wearing
it when not necessary (such as England did when wearing "anthracite" against
Australia) then I think that is disrespectful to a tradition of wearing
white.

Mind you, the All Blacks are about to unveil their new jersey and I'll
probably hate that as well...

Andrew

Uncle Dave

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Jul 29, 2011, 4:15:47 AM7/29/11
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On 28/07/2011 16:13, Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
> It's "disrespectful" apparently:
>
>
> New Zealand legend Jonah Lomu has criticised England's decision to use
> an all-black away kit at the World Cup.

I remember when he wasn't a twat.

Why don't New Zealand get some kind of restriction or trademark on the
use of the colour black? Oh, I know why, it's because they can't. It's
a colour and the obvious choice as an away strip for a team that usually
wears white.

UD

Uncle Dave

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Jul 29, 2011, 4:19:00 AM7/29/11
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On 29/07/2011 04:08, Andrew Dunford wrote:

<snip>


>
> In that case, to some extent I agree with Lomu. All teams are required
> to have a change strip and it can be any old colour, but if they start
> wearing it when not necessary (such as England did when wearing
> "anthracite" against Australia) then I think that is disrespectful to a
> tradition of wearing white.
>
> Mind you, the All Blacks are about to unveil their new jersey and I'll
> probably hate that as well...

Am I the only one who thinks that maybe the idea is to sell more shirts
to the travelling England support? This isn't something that would
occur to most New Zealanders because most of them wouldn't travel to the
next town to watch their team. Honestly. What a load of bollocks.

Incidentally, it will now sell in great quantities simply because so
many kiwis have come out against it. Job done methinks, somebody in the
RFU's marketing department is getting a bonus even as we squeak.

UD

Mark (newsgroups)

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Jul 29, 2011, 4:33:11 AM7/29/11
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If it was so obvious I wonder why it's taken till the RWC 2011 hosted in
New Zealand to come about.

Uncle Dave

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Jul 29, 2011, 5:00:03 AM7/29/11
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Well, you have to say that it's working well whatever the intention is.
If it's to wind up Kiwis it's dong that. If it's to make money I'm
sure it's doing that. Talk about a storm in a teacup though - who gives
a monkey's what colour a team's away strip is or when they wear it. The
ony time they couldn't wear it would be as the home team against the ABs
so why the fuss?! Maybe they're worried England might be drawn as the
home team if they meet in the RWC - that would be a laugh! Imagine, all
those kiwi fans with not a clue what to wear to see the ABs play :-)))

UD

simon s-b

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Jul 29, 2011, 7:32:03 AM7/29/11
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Is it disrespectful to the Scots for Samoa to wear blue? What about to
the Welsh for Kenya to wear red? What about to England for Georgia to
wear white? What a load of arse.

caspar milquetoast

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Jul 29, 2011, 9:53:12 AM7/29/11
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On 29/07/2011 5:00 PM, Uncle Dave wrote:


> Well, you have to say that it's working well whatever the intention is.
> If it's to wind up Kiwis it's dong that. If it's to make money I'm sure
> it's doing that. Talk about a storm in a teacup though - who gives a
> monkey's what colour a team's away strip is or when they wear it. The
> ony time they couldn't wear it would be as the home team against the ABs
> so why the fuss?! Maybe they're worried England might be drawn as the
> home team if they meet in the RWC - that would be a laugh! Imagine, all
> those kiwi fans with not a clue what to wear to see the ABs play :-)))

Forget the "drawn as the home team" shite. England have never needed to
change from a white jersey when playing at home against New Zealand in
the past. And why would they? White and black aren't exactly hard to
tell apart.

There's only one reason why England would choose to wear black against
New Zealand, and that's as a low, cowardly, gutless, cheating ploy to
score some sort of petty psychological cheap shot.

caspar milquetoast

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Jul 29, 2011, 10:14:08 AM7/29/11
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On 29/07/2011 7:32 PM, simon s-b wrote:

> Is it disrespectful to the Scots for Samoa to wear blue? What about to
> the Welsh for Kenya to wear red? What about to England for Georgia to
> wear white? What a load of arse.

Samoa and Scotland both play in blue, and always have done. One of them
has to change when they play each other.

Wales and Kenya both play in red, and always have done. One of them has
to change when they play each other.

As for England and Georgia -- Georgia's home strip is red isn't it?
There's no need for them to change at all when playing England.

Would it be reasonable if Georgia suddenly demanded that they play
England in their away white strip, and force England to change to their
black away strip? Two teams, both playing in their alternate strip for
no logical reason at all.

Mark (newsgroups)

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Jul 29, 2011, 10:59:51 AM7/29/11
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I don't think anyone suggested they would be wearing their black away
strip against NZ.

BrritSki

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Jul 29, 2011, 11:25:21 AM7/29/11
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I knew someone would bring the haka into it....

Earldullthing

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Jul 29, 2011, 12:18:27 PM7/29/11
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The Earl wishes to point out that they could get restrictions on the
use of the colour black, rather like the IOC does for the colour of
its rings, or indeed the words olympics, London, 2012, games etc.

mike

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Jul 29, 2011, 3:38:07 PM7/29/11
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Unless I've missed something there has been no suggestion from England
they would wear black against the AB.

I agree it would be unreasonable for England, or any other team to wear
their alt strip just to deny the other team their traditional colours.
Just like the AB insistance on always having the last say in the
pre-match festivities; such as when they flounced off for a dance in the
dressing room when Wales wanted to the last word.

England rarely have to use an away strip but it's probably a requirement
to have a change strip and it's also a good wheeze to gouge the
supporters for more money. They'll almost certainly wear it for a pool
game in the RWC if only to sell a few more of the bloody things.

Would the scots, france or samoa get their panties in a bunch had
england chosen blue? Would the welsh or kenya get hot under the collar
if they'd gone for red? The answer is no.

Lomu is just being a twat, black was around long before the AB for an AB
to try and make out that another team has a black change strip is
disrespectful to them is just arrogant twaddle.

Either that or he's in on the marketing!

Mike

muzwell

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Jul 29, 2011, 3:33:34 PM7/29/11
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On Jul 29, 2:00 am, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:

> Maybe they're worried England might be drawn as the
> home team if they meet in the RWC - that would be a laugh!  Imagine, all
> those kiwi fans with not a clue what to wear to see the ABs play :-)))

That's exactly what happened @ RWC 2007 - France wore their black away
strip against NZ (in grey).

Maybe that memory is why they are so upset (the ABs lost that game).

-m

Andrew Dunford

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Jul 29, 2011, 4:19:44 PM7/29/11
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"Uncle Dave" <david...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:j0tqds$14l6$1...@news.ett.com.ua...

Well of course it's to sell shirts to idiots, the bloke at the RFU even said
so. That's why they had the purple one a couple of years ago then
'anthracite' last year.

But you've adopted a football fan mentality by calling it an away shirt in
another response. Rugby is (or used to be) refreshing for not having the
away shirt mentality, sticking to one strip per team unless there was a
clash.

Andrew

Andrew Dunford

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Jul 29, 2011, 4:26:28 PM7/29/11
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"muzwell" <murray...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d7fa09d-105b-4d90...@g3g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

Wasn't the dark blue France's main strip for the whole tournament?

Andrew

William Clark

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Jul 29, 2011, 4:30:00 PM7/29/11
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In article <j0tq7s$14gn$3...@news.ett.com.ua>,
Uncle Dave <david...@t-online.de> wrote:

I don;t recall a litany of complaints from the Mother Country when the
ABs have played Scotland wearing white jerseys.

Lomu is morphing into an idiot.

Uncle Dave

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Jul 29, 2011, 5:17:09 PM7/29/11
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On 29/07/2011 21:19, Andrew Dunford wrote:

> But you've adopted a football fan mentality by calling it an away shirt
> in another response. Rugby is (or used to be) refreshing for not
> having the away shirt mentality, sticking to one strip per team unless
> there was a clash.

Um, doesn't that mean they need to have a second strip?

UD

Uncle Dave

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Jul 29, 2011, 5:18:22 PM7/29/11
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On 29/07/2011 14:53, caspar milquetoast wrote:

No need to get paranoid Rick. They *are* out to get you...

UD

caspar milquetoast

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Jul 29, 2011, 7:33:05 PM7/29/11
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It wasn't their away strip. They merely changed their royal blue jersey
to dark blue and changed their white shorts to dark blue shorts.

They did for the sole purpose of being able to bounce the All Blacks out
of their feared black uniform if the chance arose.

Which is exactly the sort of filthy, cheating, cowardly ploy you would
expect from the cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

Equally as guilty are the useless, fat parasites on the IRB who daily
dedicate themselves to destroying every last vestige of the iconic
values that once made this a game to be proud of. A more inept, myopic
collection of self-serving drones you'd be pushed to find anywhere
outside of Mowithey's hot tub.

caspar milquetoast

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Jul 29, 2011, 7:43:11 PM7/29/11
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On 30/07/2011 4:30 AM, William Clark wrote:


> I don;t recall a litany of complaints from the Mother Country when the
> ABs have played Scotland wearing white jerseys.

You won't recall it, William, because it didn't happen. And it didn't
happen because it had no reason to happen. Scotlands's main strip is
navy blue and that's similar enough to New Zealand's black, especially
if a little mud (not unknown in either Edinburgh or Dunedin) is added to
the equation.

In that circumstance it was common sense for the home team to change
colours so the touring team could play in their national colours. You
will note that it was the home team who CHANGED to the alternate strip,
not the home team who claimed whichever colour they thought would most
disadvantage the opposition.

What a difference in attitude to the pathetic, cowardly conniving of the
French in the last world cup.

> Lomu is morphing into an idiot.

There are similarities to Australia's most famous ex-player, David
Campese. Neither of them is brain surgeon material and both regularly
make the media giving their opinions, for what they're worth, which is
not much.

But this time he has a point.

caspar milquetoast

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Jul 29, 2011, 7:57:28 PM7/29/11
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On 30/07/2011 3:38 AM, mike wrote:
> On 29/07/2011 15:14, caspar milquetoast wrote:
>> On 29/07/2011 7:32 PM, simon s-b wrote:
>>
>>> Is it disrespectful to the Scots for Samoa to wear blue? What about to
>>> the Welsh for Kenya to wear red? What about to England for Georgia to
>>> wear white? What a load of arse.
>>
>> Samoa and Scotland both play in blue, and always have done. One of them
>> has to change when they play each other.
>>
>> Wales and Kenya both play in red, and always have done. One of them has
>> to change when they play each other.
>>
>> As for England and Georgia -- Georgia's home strip is red isn't it?
>> There's no need for them to change at all when playing England.
>>
>> Would it be reasonable if Georgia suddenly demanded that they play
>> England in their away white strip, and force England to change to their
>> black away strip? Two teams, both playing in their alternate strip for
>> no logical reason at all.
>
> Unless I've missed something there has been no suggestion from England
> they would wear black against the AB.

Indeed, from what I've read there is a firm commitment that England will
NOT attempt to wear black against the All Blacks.

> I agree it would be unreasonable for England, or any other team to wear
> their alt strip just to deny the other team their traditional colours.
> Just like the AB insistance on always having the last say in the
> pre-match festivities; such as when they flounced off for a dance in the
> dressing room when Wales wanted to the last word.

There are certain traditions in world rugby. These are what makes the
game great. If there was any flouncing done, it was on the part of Wales
who were so intimidated by the haka that they insisted on changing the
traditional pre-match routine to try and advantage themselves.

So they didn't get to see the haka. The only people who lost out in the
equation were the Welsh public. (And the Welsh team, who left the field
defeated, but that's hardly a new experience).

> England rarely have to use an away strip but it's probably a requirement
> to have a change strip and it's also a good wheeze to gouge the
> supporters for more money. They'll almost certainly wear it for a pool
> game in the RWC if only to sell a few more of the bloody things.
>
> Would the scots, france or samoa get their panties in a bunch had
> england chosen blue? Would the welsh or kenya get hot under the collar
> if they'd gone for red? The answer is no.

France would hardly be in a position to complain, would they? But you're
trying to create drama where none exists. Nations can have similar
colour main strips and similar coloured away strips. That's not the issue.

The point is not that England have chosen a black jersey. But it is just
too convenient that they have opted for black for the world cup IN NEW
ZEALAND following France's cowardly ambush marketing at the last world
cup. Do you really think it is nothing but coincidence?


> Lomu is just being a twat, black was around long before the AB for an AB
> to try and make out that another team has a black change strip is
> disrespectful to them is just arrogant twaddle.
>
> Either that or he's in on the marketing!

I admire your naive innocence. Now I have some really, really sad news
for you. There is is no Santa Claus. Sorry to be the one to break that
to you.

Andrew Dunford

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Jul 29, 2011, 9:34:30 PM7/29/11
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"Uncle Dave" <david...@t-online.de> wrote in message

news:j0v810$1vmn$2...@news.ett.com.ua...

Yes, they need a second strip for clashes. This is rather different from
the football mentality of creating as many strips as possible and changing
them as often as possible, and playing in then whenever they feel like it.
England has already gone down this path, as have the Super Rugby teams.

Andrew

mike

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Jul 30, 2011, 9:19:05 AM7/30/11
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I'm not the one complaining about the change strip, as far as I am
concerned the away kits of teams is a non issue, unless they go all
stade francais on us!

> The point is not that England have chosen a black jersey. But it is just
> too convenient that they have opted for black for the world cup IN NEW
> ZEALAND following France's cowardly ambush marketing at the last world
> cup. Do you really think it is nothing but coincidence?

Probably not, it is almost certainly part of a strategy to sell more
shirts but what difference does it make what colour englands alt kit is
if it doesn't affect the AB choice? Complaining about englands
marketing strategy in what is an increasingly commercialised sport seems
a bit pointless and indicated to me that kiwi's seem to think you own
black and woe betide anyone else who plays in it!

>> Lomu is just being a twat, black was around long before the AB for an AB
>> to try and make out that another team has a black change strip is
>> disrespectful to them is just arrogant twaddle.
>>
>> Either that or he's in on the marketing!
>
> I admire your naive innocence. Now I have some really, really sad news
> for you. There is is no Santa Claus. Sorry to be the one to break that
> to you.

Say it ain't so! Who eats the biscuits and drinks the mojito I leave on
xmas eve?

Mike


mike

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Jul 30, 2011, 11:30:14 AM7/30/11
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On 29/07/2011 02:07, JohnO wrote:

Where they concerned about the disrespect to the traditional england
jersey why didn't they gnash their teeth and wail when they wore purple
last year?

Are the other commentators bemoaning other teams alt kit? I doubt it.

They don't like england wearing black but are too chicken shit to say it
so dress it up as concern for the white shirt.

RFU marketing 1 NZ nil


Mike

Morrissey Breen

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Jul 30, 2011, 5:09:11 PM7/30/11
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On Jul 29, 12:14 pm, "Andrew Dunford" <adunf...@artifax.net> wrote:
> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mentalguy...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> news:j0rubd$3er$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> > It's "disrespectful" apparently:
>
> > New Zealand legend Jonah Lomu has criticised England's decision to use an
> > all-black away kit at the World Cup.
>
> > England's new change strip - the same colour as New Zealand's 127-year-old
> > All Black jersey - will be worn in the game against Argentina on 10
> > September.
>
> > "For me, in some ways you are just disrespecting the legacy of past
> > players," Lomu told BBC Sport.
>
> I was going to write something about Lomu not being the sharpest tool in the shed,

On what basis were you going to write that?

>
> but his comments actually are not dissimilar from what a number of
> respected rugby people in New Zealand have said.

Lomu is not a respected rugby person in New Zealand? Who has MORE
respect here than Jonah Lomu?

Uncle Dave

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Jul 30, 2011, 5:15:40 PM7/30/11
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On 30/07/2011 22:09, Morrissey Breen wrote:

>> I was going to write something about Lomu not being the sharpest tool in the shed,
> On what basis were you going to write that?

Like, er, doh! On account of him being a New Zealnder of course...

UD

Andrew Dunford

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Jul 31, 2011, 12:07:40 AM7/31/11
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"mike" <mikelovescham...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:j11829$5ja$1...@dont-email.me...


> On 29/07/2011 02:07, JohnO wrote:
>> On 29/07/2011 12:14 p.m., Andrew Dunford wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mental...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:j0rubd$3er$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> It's "disrespectful" apparently:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> New Zealand legend Jonah Lomu has criticised England's decision to use
>>>> an all-black away kit at the World Cup.
>>>>
>>>> England's new change strip - the same colour as New Zealand's
>>>> 127-year-old All Black jersey - will be worn in the game against
>>>> Argentina on 10 September.
>>>>
>>>> "For me, in some ways you are just disrespecting the legacy of past
>>>> players," Lomu told BBC Sport.
>>>
>>> I was going to write something about Lomu not being the sharpest tool in
>>> the shed, but his comments actually are not dissimilar from what a
>>> number of respected rugby people in New Zealand have said. We're an
>>> insular lot at times...
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>
>> Maybe - but to be fair the comments are along the lines of
>> 'disrespecting the [white England] jersey' rather than claims they are
>> trying to pinch the ABs' mojo or some-such.
>>
>
> Where they concerned about the disrespect to the traditional england
> jersey why didn't they gnash their teeth and wail when they wore purple
> last year?

Get real - I doubt anyone asked them. It seems unlikely that Lomu phoned
the BBC to offer his views unsolicited.

> Are the other commentators bemoaning other teams alt kit? I doubt it.

Dunno, but there have been English journalists moaning about the black kit
also.

> They don't like england wearing black but are too chicken shit to say it
> so dress it up as concern for the white shirt.
>
> RFU marketing 1 NZ nil

Certainly generated some good publicity. Now that the new NZ shirt features
a white collar, perhaps England will be able to claim the title "All
Blacks".

Andrew

Ben L

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Jul 31, 2011, 6:37:39 AM7/31/11
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On Jul 29, 12:32 pm, simon s-b <baitt...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>

> Is it disrespectful to the Scots for Samoa to wear blue? What about to
> the Welsh for Kenya to wear red? What about to England for Georgia to
> wear white? What a load of arse.

St George is also the patron saint of Georgia.

And, amongst other patronages, he is the Patron Saint of Syphilis, and
Sheep. Which makes me wonder why Matty doesn't support either England
or Georgia.

mike

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Jul 31, 2011, 7:50:56 AM7/31/11
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On 30/07/2011 00:33, caspar milquetoast wrote:
> On 30/07/2011 3:33 AM, muzwell wrote:
>> On Jul 29, 2:00 am, Uncle Dave<davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe they're worried England might be drawn as the
>>> home team if they meet in the RWC - that would be a laugh! Imagine, all
>>> those kiwi fans with not a clue what to wear to see the ABs play :-)))
>>
>> That's exactly what happened @ RWC 2007 - France wore their black away
>> strip against NZ (in grey).
>>
>> Maybe that memory is why they are so upset (the ABs lost that game).
>
> It wasn't their away strip. They merely changed their royal blue jersey
> to dark blue and changed their white shorts to dark blue shorts.
>
> They did for the sole purpose of being able to bounce the All Blacks out
> of their feared black uniform if the chance arose.

Are you sure the other kit just wasn't in the wash?

> Which is exactly the sort of filthy, cheating, cowardly ploy you would
> expect from the cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

So the AB are so fragile that if they are not in black they are
diminished, if that's the case then the haka must give them an advantage
too.

Now if the haka gives them an advantage then the opposition should have
the right to reply or do whatever else they can to minimise that
advantage; including dictating the pre match schedule on their own ground.

I'm starting to think should the AB hang on in long enough to meet
England then they should wear black. If nothing else it'll confuse
simpletons and drunks and that's always fun.


> Equally as guilty are the useless, fat parasites on the IRB who daily
> dedicate themselves to destroying every last vestige of the iconic
> values that once made this a game to be proud of. A more inept, myopic
> collection of self-serving drones you'd be pushed to find anywhere
> outside of Mowithey's hot tub.

I agree with the first part but I can't comment as I've never had the
misfortune of being in Mowithey's hot tub.

More importantly, why would anyone want to use a hot tub, it's human
soup! Throw in some stock, seasoning, veg, maybe some noodles as well
for bulk, and you've got a meal for the homeless shelter.

Mike

caspar milquetoast

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Jul 31, 2011, 9:46:05 AM7/31/11
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On 31/07/2011 7:50 PM, mike wrote:

> Are you sure the other kit just wasn't in the wash?

No, All Black uniforms don't need washing. The dirt is too scared to
adhere to the fabric.


> So the AB are so fragile that if they are not in black they are
> diminished,

Or so the French must have believed. Not wearing dark colours apparently
also causes refereeing incompetence in the team's favour -- something
supporters of other nations have certainly mentioned over the years.

> if that's the case then the haka must give them an advantage
> too.

Of course it does. That's why we are so keen on keeping it as "a valued
icon of the heritage of rugby".


> Now if the haka gives them an advantage then the opposition should have
> the right to reply or do whatever else they can to minimise that
> advantage; including dictating the pre match schedule on their own ground.

Of course they have the right of reply. The Pacific Islands exercise
this right whenever they play the All Blacks. But we can't just go
haring off in all sorts of gay (interpret the word here as you will)
tangents at variance to rugby tradition.

The All Blacks do the haka, the opposition respond in kind if they feel
like it, and the game starts. There's no five minute delay while a choir
is wheeled on to sing loft arias of Celtic greatness to give opposition
spines quivering like epileptic jelly time to recover.

By all means, let the lads run up and down the poles of their chariots
or sacrifice a virgin with a mistletoe sickle or something. As long as
they do it on the spot and let the game start.


> I'm starting to think should the AB hang on in long enough to meet
> England then they should wear black. If nothing else it'll confuse
> simpletons and drunks and that's always fun.

It probably wouldn't matter. One team would be standing behind their
goal posts a lot and the other team would be New Zealand.


> I agree with the first part but I can't comment as I've never had the
> misfortune of being in Mowithey's hot tub.

Well, you're straight and have passed puberty. You're not likely to get
an invitation.

> More importantly, why would anyone want to use a hot tub, it's human
> soup! Throw in some stock, seasoning, veg, maybe some noodles as well
> for bulk, and you've got a meal for the homeless shelter.

I believe Mowithey is more interested in hot sausage with meatballs and
cream.

mike

unread,
Jul 31, 2011, 10:53:00 AM7/31/11
to
On 31/07/2011 14:46, caspar milquetoast wrote:
> On 31/07/2011 7:50 PM, mike wrote:
>
>> Are you sure the other kit just wasn't in the wash?
>
> No, All Black uniforms don't need washing. The dirt is too scared to
> adhere to the fabric.
>
>
>> So the AB are so fragile that if they are not in black they are
>> diminished,
>
> Or so the French must have believed. Not wearing dark colours apparently
> also causes refereeing incompetence in the team's favour -- something
> supporters of other nations have certainly mentioned over the years.
>
>> if that's the case then the haka must give them an advantage
>> too.
>
> Of course it does. That's why we are so keen on keeping it as "a valued
> icon of the heritage of rugby".

An that is why every team has a right to try and put the AB off, forcing
the AB to wear their alt strip is hardly cheating, anymore than dancing
and pulling faces at the opposition is. The mindgames and pre match
press breifings are the same, just trying to get an edge.

>> Now if the haka gives them an advantage then the opposition should have
>> the right to reply or do whatever else they can to minimise that
>> advantage; including dictating the pre match schedule on their own
>> ground.
>
> Of course they have the right of reply. The Pacific Islands exercise
> this right whenever they play the All Blacks. But we can't just go
> haring off in all sorts of gay (interpret the word here as you will)
> tangents at variance to rugby tradition.
>
> The All Blacks do the haka, the opposition respond in kind if they feel
> like it, and the game starts. There's no five minute delay while a choir
> is wheeled on to sing loft arias of Celtic greatness to give opposition
> spines quivering like epileptic jelly time to recover.

Choral singing is a welsh tradition.

> By all means, let the lads run up and down the poles of their chariots
> or sacrifice a virgin with a mistletoe sickle or something. As long as
> they do it on the spot and let the game start.
>
>
>> I'm starting to think should the AB hang on in long enough to meet
>> England then they should wear black. If nothing else it'll confuse
>> simpletons and drunks and that's always fun.
>
> It probably wouldn't matter. One team would be standing behind their
> goal posts a lot and the other team would be New Zealand.

We'll see, if they don't bring home the bacon this time around the
choking tag will grow even bigger!

>> I agree with the first part but I can't comment as I've never had the
>> misfortune of being in Mowithey's hot tub.
>
> Well, you're straight and have passed puberty. You're not likely to get
> an invitation.

That's fine by me.

>> More importantly, why would anyone want to use a hot tub, it's human
>> soup! Throw in some stock, seasoning, veg, maybe some noodles as well
>> for bulk, and you've got a meal for the homeless shelter.
>
> I believe Mowithey is more interested in hot sausage with meatballs and
> cream.

Thank you for that image, if the mind is the ultimate erogenous zone I
may have just gone impotent.

Mike

Calvin

unread,
Jul 31, 2011, 6:58:10 PM7/31/11
to
On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:15:47 +1000, Uncle Dave <david...@t-online.de>
wrote:

> On 28/07/2011 16:13, Mentalguy2k8 wrote:

>> It's "disrespectful" apparently:
>>
>>
>> New Zealand legend Jonah Lomu has criticised England's decision to use
>> an all-black away kit at the World Cup.
>

> I remember when he wasn't a twat.
>
> Why don't New Zealand get some kind of restriction or trademark on the
> use of the colour black? Oh, I know why, it's because they can't. It's
> a colour and the obvious choice as an away strip for a team that usually
> wears white.

Navy is the obvious choice for England.


--

cheers,
calvin

Calvin

unread,
Jul 31, 2011, 6:59:10 PM7/31/11
to
On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 01:25:21 +1000, BrritSki <rtilbur...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Godwin's Law's first corollary?

--

cheers,
calvin

oob

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 12:50:45 AM8/1/11
to
On Jul 29, 9:00 pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
> On 29/07/2011 09:33, Mark (newsgroups) wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 29/07/2011 09:15, Uncle Dave wrote:
> >> On 28/07/2011 16:13, Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
> >>> It's "disrespectful" apparently:
>
> >>> New Zealand legend Jonah Lomu has criticised England's decision to use
> >>> an all-black away kit at the World Cup.
>
> >> I remember when he wasn't a twat.
>
> >> Why don't New Zealand get some kind of restriction or trademark on the
> >> use of the colour black? Oh, I know why, it's because they can't. It's a
> >> colour and the obvious choice as an away strip for a team that usually
> >> wears white.
>
> > If it was so obvious I wonder why it's taken till the RWC 2011 hosted in
> > New Zealand to come about.

>
> Well, you have to say that it's working well whatever the intention is.
>   If it's to wind up Kiwis it's dong that.  If it's to make money I'm
> sure it's doing that.  Talk about a storm in a teacup though - who gives
> a monkey's what colour a team's away strip is or when they wear it.  The
> ony time they couldn't wear it would be as the home team against the ABs
> so why the fuss?!  Maybe they're worried England might be drawn as the
> home team if they meet in the RWC - that would be a laugh!  Imagine, all
> those kiwi fans with not a clue what to wear to see the ABs play :-)))
>
> UD

The issue is that the England players are intending to don a black
jersey, without having earned it.

You know what the Black jersey means in international rugby, every
rugby supporter does.

oob

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 12:53:51 AM8/1/11
to
On Jul 29, 9:00 pm, Uncle Dave <davidco...@t-online.de> wrote:
> On 29/07/2011 09:33, Mark (newsgroups) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 29/07/2011 09:15, Uncle Dave wrote:
> >> On 28/07/2011 16:13, Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
> >>> It's "disrespectful" apparently:
>
> >>> New Zealand legend Jonah Lomu has criticised England's decision to use
> >>> an all-black away kit at the World Cup.
>
> >> I remember when he wasn't a twat.
>
> >> Why don't New Zealand get some kind of restriction or trademark on the
> >> use of the colour black? Oh, I know why, it's because they can't. It's a
> >> colour and the obvious choice as an away strip for a team that usually
> >> wears white.
>
> > If it was so obvious I wonder why it's taken till the RWC 2011 hosted in
> > New Zealand to come about.
>
> Well, you have to say that it's working well whatever the intention is.
>   If it's to wind up Kiwis it's dong that.  If it's to make money I'm
> sure it's doing that.  Talk about a storm in a teacup though - who gives
> a monkey's what colour a team's away strip is or when they wear it.  The
> ony time they couldn't wear it would be as the home team against the ABs
> so why the fuss?!  Maybe they're worried England might be drawn as the
> home team if they meet in the RWC - that would be a laugh!  Imagine, all
> those kiwi fans with not a clue what to wear to see the ABs play :-)))
>
> UD

And I know Dave, that you're quite justifiably bitter and twisted from
your years here in rec.sport.rugby.kiwi.rules but come on.

Andrew Dunford

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 1:22:19 AM8/1/11
to

"oob" <simon.a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7f70feaa-3d20-4bd2...@t38g2000prj.googlegroups.com...

There are people in the Avalon suburb of Lower Hutt who would claim that
Thomas Waldrom earned his chance in the black jersey some time ago.

Andrew

mike

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 3:02:23 AM8/1/11
to

It's an England shirt, whilst there may be some debate about wether they
are the best man for the job they will have earned the shirt.

> You know what the Black jersey means in international rugby, every
> rugby supporter does.

Yes it means that the white kit is in the wash!

You kiwi's are an arrogant bunch, you don't own black, you don't have a
copyright on it, people wore black and I dare say played sport in it
long before the AB existed.

All(?) teams have an alt strip which has as it's base a colour the
traditional colour of another team but only the kiwi's get prissy about
it. Leicester Tigers had a black away strip four or five seasons ago and
I still have one. I wore it at the weekend, I wasn't wearing an AB
shirt I was wearing a Leicester shirt.

I don't normally announce on this group what underwear I am wearing
because matty gets too excited but today I will be wearing black and at
some point I may fart. I hope it makes your eye's water you prissy
little kiwi!

Mike

Uncle Dave

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 3:31:57 AM8/1/11
to
On 01/08/2011 05:50, oob wrote:

<snip>


>
> You know what the Black jersey means in international rugby

You should switch to using Persil?

UD


Uncle Dave

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 3:34:23 AM8/1/11
to

Oh do leave it out. I've matured over the years. As far as this
subject goes I couldn't give a monkey's what colour they wear. And nor
should you. It makes no sense and - aye and here's the rub - will do
the Kiwi nation no god whatsoever getting het up about incidentals
rather than concentrating on the matter in hand.

I sometimes wear black socks. Should I ask permission first? Pah!
Stuff and nonsense. Begone!

UD

alvey

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 4:04:40 AM8/1/11
to
On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 21:50:45 -0700 (PDT), oob wrote:


>
> You know what the Black jersey means in international rugby,

A silly dance?

btw, capitalising a colour makes you look even sillier.

as

caspar milquetoast

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 6:40:29 AM8/1/11
to
On 01/08/2011 12:50 PM, oob wrote:


> The issue is that the England players are intending to don a black
> jersey, without having earned it.

God in heaven, what nonsense.

I wear a black jersey and I haven't earned it.

Unless you're 106 years old and don't believe in the filthy influence of
mammon on the noble game of rugby, and cling to a 19th century private
school athletics ethos -- with merchandising these days every snot-nosed
glue-sniffer from Porirua wears a black jersey WITH a silver fern.

I remember wearing a black t-shirt with a silver fern at the Waimea Town
and Country club in the late 70s when an old duffer hobbled up to me
with a flinty look in his rheumy eye and waggled his shooting stick at
me in irritation.

"And in which sport did you represent New Zealand?" he demanded.

I was obliged to inform him that I had not earned national honours in
aby sport but felt that should not necessarily prevent me from wearing
my nation's symbol, particularly since I was heading overseas and
thought that showing the colours might be quite a fine thing.

"Hrmmph!" he growled, looking me up and down like a communist Nazi
paedophile, or a teenager, which was probably worse, and hobbled off to
tell his fellow WWI veterans that the country was going to the dogs.


> You know what the Black jersey means in international rugby, every
> rugby supporter does.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and let's not forget it. As
long as they don't try to wear it when they play the team whose name
should say it all.

alvey

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 7:30:59 AM8/1/11
to
On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 18:40:29 +0800, caspar milquetoast wrote:

snip


>
> Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and let's not forget it. As
> long as they don't try to wear it when they play the team whose name
> should say it all.

Wales?

as

Two Dogs

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 4:44:57 PM8/1/11
to
On Friday, July 29, 2011 7:32:03 AM UTC-4, simon s-b wrote:

> On Jul 28, 4:13 pm, "Mentalguy2k8" <Mental...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's "disrespectful" apparently:
> >
> > New Zealand legend Jonah Lomu has criticised England's decision to use an
> > all-black away kit at the World Cup.
> >
> > England's new change strip - the same colour as New Zealand's 127-year-old
> > All Black jersey - will be worn in the game against Argentina on 10
> > September.
> >
> > "For me, in some ways you are just disrespecting the legacy of past
> > players," Lomu told BBC Sport.
> >
> > "The All Blacks are synonymous with being in all black, and England the
> > white shirt they have."
> >
> > Martin Johnson's side will revert to white for their other group games
> > against Georgia, Romania and Scotland.
> >
> > But should there be a further clash in later rounds, the black kit could
> > return.
> >
> > Hosts New Zealand have said they have no qualms with England wearing it, but
> > Lomu is less comfortable.
> >
> > "I will find it difficult to watch England in a different shirt," stated the
> > 36-year-old, who scored 37 tries in 63 appearances for the All Blacks before
> > retiring in 2007.
> >
> > "I am one of those people who was brought up on the history of rugby,
> > watching the great players of the past who have worn the England shirt and
> > also the All Blacks'.
> >
> > "I will find it pretty weird to look across the paddock and see them run out
> > not wearing that famous white uniform."
> >
> > The All Blacks have not won the World Cup since the inaugural tournament
> > staged in New Zealand and Australia in 1987, but they will enter the 9
> > September-23 October tournament as favourites.
> >
> > "It is theirs to lose," Lomu suggested. "It is on their home ground, they
> > know the grounds better than any other team, they will have their fans there
> > and the support around them from their own families.
> >
> > "That is a huge advantage but at the same time, the players still have to do
> > their job and do it well."

>
> Is it disrespectful to the Scots for Samoa to wear blue? What about to
> the Welsh for Kenya to wear red? What about to England for Georgia to
> wear white? What a load of arse.

Why change the colour of the shorts as well then? Why not Black jersey and keep the white shorts?

Because it's a windup, you and I both know it. *That's* the load of arse.

Two Dogs


Andrew Dunford

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 5:35:40 PM8/1/11
to

"Two Dogs" <nzr...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:390f4485-ee2b-47c4...@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com...

The even bigger windup is that it's working. Inhabitants of rsru would be
pleased to be able to catch a few tiddlers on the end of the line, but the
RFU has apparently managed to troll almost an entire nation.

Andrew

caspar milquetoast

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 7:10:35 PM8/1/11
to
On 02/08/2011 5:35 AM, Andrew Dunford wrote:

> The even bigger windup is that it's working. Inhabitants of rsru would
> be pleased to be able to catch a few tiddlers on the end of the line,
> but the RFU has apparently managed to troll almost an entire nation.

Which of course means nothing.

Say nothing and you accept it by tacit compliance.

Object and you're a sucker being trolled. Keep objecting and you're
'digging a bigger hole'.

There's a cynical, snide interpretation for everything. Damned if you do
and damned if you don't.

Andrew Dunford

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 8:01:58 PM8/1/11
to

"caspar milquetoast" <bo...@comswest.net.au> wrote in message
news:36-dnYB3lbfrr6rT...@westnet.com.au...

When I wrote "almost an entire nation" I was referring to New Zealand, not
Australia.

The idea that New Zealanders have the right to "accept" or otherwise another
team wearing a black jersey is a nonsense.

Andrew

caspar milquetoast

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 8:52:43 PM8/1/11
to

Of course they have the right to accept it our reject it. No one else
has to take a blind bit of notice of that -- except perhaps when their
players walk off the pitch after a trousers-down spanking and realise
that perhaps the All Blacks did not need to extra motivation.

Sir Leslie Buttox

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 12:02:51 AM8/2/11
to

"Andrew Dunford" <adun...@artifax.net> wrote in message
news:99ecaq...@mid.individual.net...

>
>
> "Mentalguy2k8" <Mental...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:j0rubd$3er$1...@dont-email.me...
>> It's "disrespectful" apparently:
>>
>>
>> New Zealand legend Jonah Lomu has criticised England's decision to use an
>> all-black away kit at the World Cup.
>>
>> England's new change strip - the same colour as New Zealand's
>> 127-year-old All Black jersey - will be worn in the game against
>> Argentina on 10 September.
>>
>> "For me, in some ways you are just disrespecting the legacy of past
>> players," Lomu told BBC Sport.
>
> I was going to write something about Lomu not being the sharpest tool in
> the shed, but his comments actually are not dissimilar from what a number
> of respected rugby people in New Zealand have said. We're an insular lot
> at times...

Alas Andrew, it's just another sign of New Zealand's self obsessed culture.


johnmhill

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 3:22:35 AM8/2/11
to
Why. Blue is the colour of the Infernal Scots

JH

johnmhill

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 3:23:41 AM8/2/11
to
And it's working a treat Dave

JH

simon s-b

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 9:07:48 AM8/2/11
to
I think you'll find Scotland and Wales had dibs on it, which is about
as childish as this whole debate.

Georgia played Ireland in a white shirt with a St Georges cross on it
last RWC, and Ireland obviously wear green, so I thought white was
their home colour.

England have stated that if they play the ABs it will be in white. The
chances of this strip even being seen are so slim I don't know why
we're even bothering to talk about it.

Seriously, the things you fellas find to fucking whinge about are
amazing.

caspar milquetoast

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 10:12:04 AM8/2/11
to


I hope you're sending your full strength team, and I hope we can tell
the fucking difference.

simon s-b

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 10:23:16 AM8/2/11
to
> rugby supporter does.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So what you're saying is that NZ should be the only nation allowed to
make sure that nobody else uses the same colour they do for an away
strip?

Uncle Dave

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 11:33:49 AM8/2/11
to

Not until it's too late you won't...

UD

Stex

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 4:45:45 PM8/2/11
to
> rugby supporter does.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

how 'bout those turbo's eh?

Stex

Simon S-B

unread,
Aug 4, 2011, 10:46:21 PM8/4/11
to

>
> The point is not that England have chosen a black jersey. But it is just
> too convenient that they have opted for black for the world cup IN NEW
> ZEALAND following France's cowardly ambush marketing at the last world
> cup. Do you really think it is nothing but coincidence?
>


Am I having an acid flashback, or does anyone else remember in a RWC in
the UK, the ABs playing Scotland in a white shirt? I mean, I must be
tripping or something because otherwise this would be not just another
incredible whinge, but one of the most hypocritical ones ever.


Mark (newsgroups)

unread,
Aug 5, 2011, 3:45:32 AM8/5/11
to

Look, all of this is a storm in a teacup because the RFU spoke to and
got permission from the NZRU before announcing the kit (or so the
article said).

But you are not being logical here. There is a clear difference in
several respects. Most importantly, the ABs have always had the same
away strip from what I can remember. They didn't change it to exactly
match the hosts colours like England did.

Simon S-B

unread,
Aug 5, 2011, 8:45:12 AM8/5/11
to
le said).
>
> But you are not being logical here. There is a clear difference in
> several respects. Most importantly, the ABs have always had the same

Really, because I'm sure I can remember a grey one as well as the white
one.

> away strip from what I can remember. They didn't change it to exactly
> match the hosts colours like England did.

The point is anyone can do whatever the hell they like with their strip.
To think you 'own' a certain colour is just unbelievably stupid. There
are so many nations who share the same colours, but apparently nobody is
supposed to touch black? What a load of shite.

Mark (newsgroups)

unread,
Aug 5, 2011, 9:36:01 AM8/5/11
to
On 05/08/2011 13:45, Simon S-B wrote:
> le said).
>>
>> But you are not being logical here. There is a clear difference in
>> several respects. Most importantly, the ABs have always had the same
>
> Really, because I'm sure I can remember a grey one as well as the white
> one.

Sorry, I forgot to mention that exception in my appendix.

>> away strip from what I can remember. They didn't change it to exactly
>> match the hosts colours like England did.
>
> The point is anyone can do whatever the hell they like with their strip.
> To think you 'own' a certain colour is just unbelievably stupid. There
> are so many nations who share the same colours, but apparently nobody is
> supposed to touch black? What a load of shite.

Sure they can do whatever they want, I'm just saying the two situations
aren't the same.

caspar milquetoast

unread,
Aug 5, 2011, 10:36:57 AM8/5/11
to

What are you gibbering about? The All Blacks and Scotland have NEVER
played each other in their main colours.

alvey

unread,
Aug 5, 2011, 6:12:40 PM8/5/11
to

Eh! You better sturt showin the Ull Blucks sum respuct bro. Utherwise we'll
fuckin whine at you.


as

Joe Orton

unread,
Aug 6, 2011, 7:15:38 AM8/6/11
to
The pressure builds, and builds, until on Aug 2, 12:52 pm, one caspar
milquetoast <b...@comswest.net.au> just can't help himself:

> On 02/08/2011 8:01 AM, Andrew Dunford wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "caspar milquetoast" <b...@comswest.net.au> wrote in message

> >news:36-dnYB3lbfrr6rT...@westnet.com.au...
> >> On 02/08/2011 5:35 AM, Andrew Dunford wrote:
>
> >>> The even bigger windup is that it's working. Inhabitants of rsru would
> >>> be pleased to be able to catch a few tiddlers on the end of the line,
> >>> but the RFU has apparently managed to troll almost an entire nation.
>
> >> Which of course means nothing.
>
> >> Say nothing and you accept it by tacit compliance.
>
> >> Object and you're a sucker being trolled. Keep objecting and you're
> >> 'digging a bigger hole'.
>
> >> There's a cynical, snide interpretation for everything. Damned if you
> >> do and damned if you don't.
>
> > When I wrote "almost an entire nation" I was referring to New Zealand,
> >