Os du Randt - awsome!!!
Leon
What a player! Has there ever been a more exciting prop in recent
international rugby? The way he gets around the field is incredible
for such a big man (190cm, 127kg's).
And those tackles he puts in!!!!!
I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned his performance on Saturday -
2 tackles (including one cover takle) on Joe Rockococo where
brilliant! Not to mention all the other ones where he came flying in!!
And that hit on Spencer.....dam!!!!
To think he was out of the game for almost 4 years before making a
come back last year! I remember way back in about '96 they did some
tests at the Sport Science Institute in Cape Town and Os was recorded
as being as fast as James Small over 20 meters in terms of
acceleration.
He obviously doesn't have that kind of pace anymore, but dammit he's
still got enough gas to make good cover takles - something our backs
would be proud of!
Does anyone remember that tackle he made on Matt Burke during the
Super 12 that resulted in Burke's ribs being broken and him being out
of the game for about 4 months....that's my Os....what a legend :-)
JohnO
"Leon" <60...@post.com> wrote in message
news:ac0bff98.04072...@posting.google.com...
Actually, it seems like he as regained most of his speed. Pretty amazing
comeback.
imanutta
"JohnO" <jo...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:v7fNc.5440$N77.3...@news.xtra.co.nz...
Ima...
Leon
> >
> >
> >He was offside all night.
> Ima...
HAHAHA - that's funny....please point out any moment in the game where
he was offside - I know a lot of our players crossed that line
throughout the game, but Os....??? Please do enlighten us all.
And I suppose that cover takle on Joe Rockococo in broken play was
from an offside position as well...??? hehe, sure whatever.
Dont try take away from the fact that SA has one of the games greats
currently playing for them. Os is a f*cking fantastic to watch!
Simon Stovin-Bradford
My main memory of Du Randt is of Scott Gibbs smashing him onto his arse on
the lions tour, then standing over him shouting "get up you ox!" When a
centre totally runs over a prop like that, I love it.
imanutta
>They are just a pack of fucking Eye gouging Thugs Leo...Full of cheap
shots.
Ima....
Sean Byrne
>
> Dont try take away from the fact that SA has one of the games greats
> currently playing for them. Os is a f*cking fantastic to watch!
Game's greats? How did the SA scrum go again?
Later,
Sean
Brad Anton
> Os Du Randt you legend!
>
> What a player! Has there ever been a more exciting prop in recent
> international rugby? The way he gets around the field is incredible
> for such a big man (190cm, 127kg's).
>
> And those tackles he puts in!!!!!
>
> I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned his performance on Saturday -
> 2 tackles (including one cover takle) on Joe Rockococo where
> brilliant! Not to mention all the other ones where he came flying in!!
>
> And that hit on Spencer.....dam!!!!
>
> To think he was out of the game for almost 4 years before making a
> come back last year! I remember way back in about '96 they did some
> tests at the Sport Science Institute in Cape Town and Os was recorded
> as being as fast as James Small over 20 meters in terms of
> acceleration.
>
was shown a trick or two by his counterparts on Saturday.
Brad
Codocks
> come back last year!
New chemist
I remember way back in about '96 they did some
> tests at the Sport Science Institute in Cape Town and Os was recorded
> as being as fast as James Small over 20 meters in terms of
> acceleration.
HGH/Cough mixture
>
> He obviously doesn't have that kind of pace anymore, but dammit he's
> still got enough gas to make good cover takles - something our backs
> would be proud of!
Old chemist retired
>
>
> Does anyone remember that tackle he made on Matt Burke during the
> Super 12 that resulted in Burke's ribs being broken and him being out
> of the game for about 4 months....that's my Os....what a legend :-)
No
Codocks
Leighton Jones
"Simon Stovin-Bradford" <Simon.Stov...@nospooge.cern.ch> wrote in
message news:ce55ki$9os$1...@sunnews.cern.ch...<Snip>>
>
> My main memory of Du Randt is of Scott Gibbs smashing him onto his arse on
> the lions tour, then standing over him shouting "get up you ox!" When a
> centre totally runs over a prop like that, I love it.
>
Oh yes that is a "Memory", changed the game as I remember?
Scott Gibbs was the man who could do that though wasn't he, remember
Wembley.
Cheers LJ.
Simon Stovin-Bradford
"Leighton Jones" <leigh...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:SkuNc.320$oa1...@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
Bulldog
> Game's greats? How did the SA scrum go again?
>
> Later,
> Sean
Sean I'd say he is one of the greats...I know you prefer sniping at
others opinions but tell me who you would rate as a better loosehead
prop ?
Alan Luchetti
"Leon" <60...@post.com> wrote ...
> Does anyone remember that tackle he made on Matt Burke during the
> Super 12 that resulted in Burke's ribs being broken and him being out
> of the game for about 4 months....that's my Os....what a legend :-)
I remember it. Os was down being attended to by a trainer, play went to the
other side of the field then the Waratahs went wide back the other way and
put a flying Burke into space. So Os springs up and ambushes the poor
unsuspecting guy. There should be a law against it.
Leon
Os's side of the scrum went great, thanks for asking.
A pitty Faan couldn't hold up his end when he came on for Andrews.
If you're trying to make a point, please explain.
Leon
> >
> > My main memory of Du Randt is of Scott Gibbs smashing him onto his arse on
> > the lions tour, then standing over him shouting "get up you ox!" When a
> > centre totally runs over a prop like that, I love it.
> >
>
> Oh yes that is a "Memory", changed the game as I remember?
> Scott Gibbs was the man who could do that though wasn't he, remember
> Wembley.
> Cheers LJ.
Yes that was a legendry moment in the game of rugby and I wont take
anything away from Gibbs achievment there - he was a great player.
I think you're talking a bit of B.S. and trying to create urban legend
though when you say that he shouted "get up you ox!".....Gibbs
continued to run once he'd bounced off Os, so he was standing far away
by the time that play came to and end.....certainly nowhere near
enough to Os to say that.....
The fact is that Os was caught off balance going in for the tackle and
Gibbs having a very low centre of gravity managed to bounce out of the
tackle. It was perfect timing and I bet 99 times out of a hundred in
that same scenario Os would have flattened Gibbs.
Leon
You're such a cock you know that?
Praise where praise is due you stupid tyre kicker! Os gets around like
no other prop in the word and is more explosive than any prop we've
probably ever seen. His tackles are amazing for such a big guy and
he's certainly exciting to watch!
I'll say the same about any international player if they have the
credentials.
You're sadly to blinded to see beyond gold....you probably think Bill
Young is a legend....
Leon
> He just needs to work on his scrummaging though, seeing as he is a prop. He
> was shown a trick or two by his counterparts on Saturday.
> Brad
He was....?
I never saw that....what game where you watching?
He held his own as far as I could tell and his side of the scrum never
went back once. If anything they where neautral, but thats about it.
Good work on the part of the AB's to nullify him in the scrums, but to
say he got worked is a joke!
Anyway, from an entertainment point of view watching a prop hunt down
wings, flyhalves, and smoking them is briliant in my book!
Simon Stovin-Bradford
> "Leighton Jones" <leigh...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:<SkuNc.320$oa1...@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>...
>
> > >
> > > My main memory of Du Randt is of Scott Gibbs smashing him onto his
arse on
> > > the lions tour, then standing over him shouting "get up you ox!" When
a
> > > centre totally runs over a prop like that, I love it.
> > >
> >
> > Oh yes that is a "Memory", changed the game as I remember?
> > Scott Gibbs was the man who could do that though wasn't he, remember
> > Wembley.
> > Cheers LJ.
>
>
>
> Yes that was a legendry moment in the game of rugby and I wont take
> anything away from Gibbs achievment there - he was a great player.
>
> I think you're talking a bit of B.S. and trying to create urban legend
> though when you say that he shouted "get up you ox!".....Gibbs
> continued to run once he'd bounced off Os, so he was standing far away
> by the time that play came to and end.....certainly nowhere near
> enough to Os to say that.....
>
go watch the video - Os was still on the floor when Gibbsy was trotting back
into position. He stands right over him screaming it - you can't miss it.
Also documented in "Living With the Lions", and in Backy's autobiography
"Size Doesn't Matter."
>
> The fact is that Os was caught off balance going in for the tackle and
> Gibbs having a very low centre of gravity managed to bounce out of the
> tackle. It was perfect timing and I bet 99 times out of a hundred in
> that same scenario Os would have flattened Gibbs.
Gibbs spent his entire career doing that to people, and on more than one
occasion they were English, so I have very painful memories of him. 99/100 -
methinks not.
Mike Amm
> Sean Byrne <byrne_sean...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<ce57ht$77k$1$830f...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>> Leon wrote:
>>> Dont try take away from the fact that SA has one of the games greats
>>> currently playing for them. Os is a f*cking fantastic to watch!
>>
>> Game's greats? How did the SA scrum go again?
>
> A pitty Faan couldn't hold up his end when he came on for Andrews.
> If you're trying to make a point, please explain."
His point is exactly the point my fellow SA's have been ducking this week.
What exactly is the problem with a pack that was expected to leave the
AB's living on scraps of possession, but finished living on 27% scraps
themselves. According to our media, this weekend it's the Aussies' turn to
suffer at the hands of our dominant pack.
I've read every excuse imaginable for the 27% possession won by our
dominant heroes but frankly, I settle for a wimpish pack that gave us 54%
possession. Our backs might even score six tries!
Sean Byrne
Crenca
Grahan Rowntree
Roberto Grau
Tom Smith
Reggie Corrigan
None of which are in the game's greats.
A couple who are though:
Jason Leonard
Steve McDowell
What makes you think he justifies a place as one of the 'game's greats'?
Later,
Sean
Ferdi Greyling
<<>Os's side of the scrum went great, thanks for asking.
>
>A pitty Faan couldn't hold up his end when he came on for Andrews.
>
>If you're trying to make a point, please explain.>>
The point he is trying to make is: If somebody does not play for NZ he
cannot be considered a great.
Bulldog
> Crenca
right up there but was found out by Vickery in the RWC when technique
got bested by sheer bulk.
> Grahan Rowntree
no fucking way !
> Roberto Grau
Very good prop but limited around the park.
> Tom Smith
chuckle!
> Reggie Corrigan
Nope.
>
> None of which are in the game's greats.
>
> A couple who are though:
> Jason Leonard
> Steve McDowell
>
> What makes you think he justifies a place as one of the 'game's greats'?
>
> Later,
> Sean
Top scrummager...and that is all that needs to be said.
rick boyd
>Yes that was a legendry moment in the game of rugby and I wont take
>anything away from Gibbs achievment there - he was a great player.
>
>I think you're talking a bit of B.S. and trying to create urban legend
>though when you say that he shouted "get up you ox!".....Gibbs
>continued to run once he'd bounced off Os, so he was standing far away
>by the time that play came to and end.....certainly nowhere near
>enough to Os to say that.....
>
>
>The fact is that Os was caught off balance going in for the tackle and
>Gibbs having a very low centre of gravity managed to bounce out of the
>tackle. It was perfect timing and I bet 99 times out of a hundred in
>that same scenario Os would have flattened Gibbs.
The Australians made a big self-aggrandising fuss (there's something
new) when Gregan sat Richard Loe on his arse in one particular tackle
some years back.
But as anyone who has played the game should be able to tell you,
tackling, like kicking, is all in the timing.
Little blokes can regularly kill giants if they get the tackle right.
There is nothing particularly exciting or exceptional about it -- it
just makes a lovely little PR moment for newbies to ooh and arr over.
-- rick boyd
The Green Phantom
[...]
>>The fact is that Os was caught off balance going in for the tackle and
>>Gibbs having a very low centre of gravity managed to bounce out of the
>>tackle. It was perfect timing and I bet 99 times out of a hundred in
>>that same scenario Os would have flattened Gibbs.
>
> The Australians made a big self-aggrandising fuss (there's something
> new) when Gregan sat Richard Loe on his arse in one particular tackle
> some years back.
>
> But as anyone who has played the game should be able to tell you,
> tackling, like kicking, is all in the timing.
>
> Little blokes can regularly kill giants if they get the tackle right.
> There is nothing particularly exciting or exceptional about it -- it
> just makes a lovely little PR moment for newbies to ooh and arr over.
JPR Williams. Perfect timing first time, every time.
regards
The Green Phantom
--
Courage is grace under pressure.
Simon Stovin-Bradford
"rick boyd" <bo...@comswest.net.au> wrote in message
news:4108327f...@news.wn.com.au...
> On 28 Jul 2004 02:01:48 -0700, 60...@post.com (Leon) wrote:
>
>
>
> Little blokes can regularly kill giants if they get the tackle right.
Oh I know that - I am not exactly a small second row, but if you go in too
high the smallest of fellas can cut you in half.
Scott Gibbs is far from a little bloke though, and it was Os tring to tackle
him. In this case, it was piss poor timing from Leons pin-up, and it made me
cackle with glee.
Leon
> Bulldog wrote:
>
> >>
> >> Game's greats? How did the SA scrum go again?
> >>
Looks like Eddie Jones doesn't agree with you....but then you probably
think you know more than an international coach right?
"Du Randt was probably the best loosehead prop in the world in 1995
but had a number of injuries and probably lost a bit of motivation.
"He is still a young bloke at 31 - you saw him make that cover tackle
on Joe (Rokocoko) in the last period of the game last week which shows
you what a great athlete he is. "
Jones said: "If you look at Jason Leonard he was still playing well
for England at 35 and Os du Randt is probably a better athlete than he
is. "
http://www.superrugby.co.za/default.asp?id=121108&des=article&scat=superrugby/springboks
Sean Byrne
> Looks like Eddie Jones doesn't agree with you....but then you probably
> think you know more than an international coach right?
Calling in Eddie Jones as backup? Bloody hell Leon... you're really
struggling if you need him.
>
> "Du Randt was probably the best loosehead prop in the world in 1995
> but had a number of injuries and probably lost a bit of motivation.
One year.
He's a good prop. No doubt about that, but to call him one of the games
greats is premature at best.
Later,
Sean
Sean Byrne
>
> Top scrummager...and that is all that needs to be said.
But you disagreed with Roberto Grau because he was limited around the
park.
So what is it?
Os had a good season a number of years ago and is still solid at
international level.
That doesn't make him 'great' in my books.
You obviously have a different standard for greatness.
Later,
Sean
Leighton Jones
>
> Little blokes can regularly kill giants if they get the tackle right.
> There is nothing particularly exciting or exceptional about it -- it
> just makes a lovely little PR moment for newbies to ooh and arr over.
>
> -- rick boyd
I have to disagree here.
I wouldn't class myself as a Newbie to rugby, but I do love to see a "Good
hit" going in. If it's a good hit on a big man that's even better.
It's just "One" of the things I love about the game.
J P R Williams on the French guy coming up the wing, outstanding, can still
see it now.
Ah yes the "Big Hit"........................
Cheers LJ.
rick boyd
<leigh...@virgin.net> wrote:
>I have to disagree here.
>I wouldn't class myself as a Newbie to rugby, but I do love to see a "Good
>hit" going in. If it's a good hit on a big man that's even better.
>It's just "One" of the things I love about the game.
>J P R Williams on the French guy coming up the wing, outstanding, can still
>see it now.
>Ah yes the "Big Hit"........................
>Cheers LJ.
But you're not really disagreeing. We all enjoy seeing the crunch
tackle. But must of us don't hop around with pubescent glee when
Tarquin the seven stone half back lands Ugly Bob the 19 stone prop on
his arse with a kidney-crushing jack-knife -- at least, not to any
greater extent than we would for any other thumping tackle.
"Oh gosh, we're just so wonderful, our midget has just flattened your
monster. Aren't we ever so special!"
You know what I mean.
-- rick boyd
Tom Joyce
Is this because we realise that unless he's very, very careful Tarquin
is going to find himself at the bottom of a ruck that Ugly Bob will,
breaking the habit of a lifetime, rush to? 8-)
--
yours aye,
Tom
You don't "watch" cricket as such, you enter a kind of meditative
state. For five days. It's very relaxing. - Tim Auton 2003-08-04
Greig Blanchett
>Sean Byrne <byrne_sean...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ce87p1$cm7$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>> Bulldog wrote:
>>
>> >>
>> >> Game's greats? How did the SA scrum go again?
>> >>
>
>
>Looks like Eddie Jones doesn't agree with you....but then you probably
>think you know more than an international coach right?
He's sucked you in, that's for sure. Who is Eddies team playing next?
And if he wanted to keep some player in that team, what would he say
about that player? Christ, usually Eddie's pretty subtle, but when
dealing with you humourless jaapies, he just outs with it and you
muppets take it at face value. Raise your game!
[...]
>
>"He is still a young bloke at 31 - you saw him make that cover tackle
>on Joe (Rokocoko) in the last period of the game last week which shows
>you what a great athlete he is. "
Translation: "I can't wait for this ageing fat bastard to try and stop
Tuquiri or Wendell"
>
>Jones said: "If you look at Jason Leonard he was still playing well
>for England at 35 and Os du Randt is probably a better athlete than he
>is. "
Translation: "Please don't throw me in the briar patch, Br'er Fox"
--
greig
rick boyd
<t.m....@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
>Is this because we realise that unless he's very, very careful Tarquin
>is going to find himself at the bottom of a ruck that Ugly Bob will,
>breaking the habit of a lifetime, rush to? 8-)
>
I wonder if Ken Catchpole sat Pinetree on his arse some time before he
mistook Catchy's leg for chicken wishbone?
-- rick boyd
Alan Luchetti
Alan Luchetti
"Mike Amm" <mike...@iafrica.com> wrote in message
news:41079...@news1.mweb.co.za...
> I've read every excuse imaginable for the 27% possession won by our
> dominant heroes but frankly, I settle for a wimpish pack that gave us 54%
> possession. Our backs might even score six tries!
Don't blame your pack. They won ball but your backs kicked it away.
Leon
> Leon wrote:
>
>
>
> Calling in Eddie Jones as backup? Bloody hell Leon... you're really
> struggling if you need him.
> >
No mate, I'm just pointing out that international coaches recognize Os
as one of the games greats. Credit where it's due as I expect from
Eddie Jones, just as past SA coaches have praised Kiwi and Ocker
players. In the past Mallet, Viljoen, Straulie have all given praise
to the likes of Gregan and Larkham.
> > "Du Randt was probably the best loosehead prop in the world in 1995
> > but had a number of injuries and probably lost a bit of motivation.
>
> One year.
>
One year??? Yes, he highlighted one year, but tell me who was a better
prop in '96, '98 and so far in '04 ??
> He's a good prop. No doubt about that, but to call him one of the games
> greats is premature at best.
>
"Premature" ?!?!?!? How the fuck can it be "premature" Sean??!?! The
guy has been playing since '94, and has consistently been the best
prop in SA if not amongst the top 3 in the world for the past 10 years
(besides when he was retired).
How can that be "premature" exactly?!?!? A World Cup medal winner,
tri-nations '98 winner, SA player of the year, and part of the record
18 match winning Springbok team of 1997-1998.
Please do tell me what is premature about that?
> Later,
> Sean
Leon
>
> He's sucked you in, that's for sure. Who is Eddies team playing next?
> And if he wanted to keep some player in that team, what would he say
> about that player? Christ, usually Eddie's pretty subtle, but when
> dealing with you humourless jaapies, he just outs with it and you
> muppets take it at face value. Raise your game!
>
No mate, I'm pointing out that international coaches recognize Os as
one of the games greats. Credit where it's due as I expect from Eddie
Jones, just as past SA coaches have praised Kiwi and Ocker players. In
the past Mallet, Viljoen, Straulie have all given praise to the likes
of Gregan and Larkham.
Fuckit come to think of it Mallet nearly got off on talking about how
much he admired Larkham.... I think there is always gamesmanship in
it, but more often than not a coach is willing to praise an opposition
player if they admire them.
Not that hard to believe is it....
> Translation: "I can't wait for this ageing fat bastard to try and stop
> Tuquiri or Wendell"
>
You are joking right? Os would sit Tiquiri or Wendell on their ass if
they tried to go over him. 9 times out of 10 anyway.... ;-)
.........
What gets me is that you lot have such a hard time even showing the
slightest appreciation for Os's skills for such a big man. It's like
you're hell-bent on not even for a second considering the guy anything
special.
Here is player that comes out of retirement after 4 years at age 31
and runs around the field cover tackling wings and making people stand
up and take notice. Yet the likes of you and Boyd cant' seem to
appreciate this at all.
Simon Stovin-Bradford
>
> What gets me is that you lot have such a hard time even showing the
> slightest appreciation for Os's skills for such a big man. It's like
> you're hell-bent on not even for a second considering the guy anything
> special.
>
Leon, Leon, Leon - you really don't get how this NG works do you?
Sean Byrne
> Leon, Leon, Leon - you really don't get how this NG works do you?
It works? Who fixed it? And whoever it was, should he be considered
great for doing so?
Later,
Sean
Sean Byrne
> One year??? Yes, he highlighted one year, but tell me who was a better
> prop in '96,
Craig Dowd for one.
Roberto Grau for another.
> '98
You're just embarassing yourself now.
> and so far in '04 ??
Not many looseheads putting their hands up this year. He's the best of
an average bunch.
>> He's a good prop. No doubt about that, but to call him one of the
>> games greats is premature at best.
>>
>
> "Premature" ?!?!?!? How the fuck can it be "premature" Sean??!?! The
> guy has been playing since '94,
Not quite Leon. He only played for half of that.
>and has consistently been the best prop in SA
When did that become a prerequisite for greatness?
Is the best prop in Fiji also automatically great or is this a South
African specific criteria?
> if not amongst the top 3 in the world for the past 10 years
> (besides when he was retired).
>
So you say...
>
> How can that be "premature" exactly?!?!? A World Cup medal winner,
> tri-nations '98 winner,
Wrong.
> SA player of the year,
What year was that?
> and part of the record
> 18 match winning Springbok team of 1997-1998.
Wrong again.
He played in 97, and was part of the team that lost to the Lions where
Tom Smith had the better of him, and also part of the Bok team that
took a beating up front and got thrashed at Eden Park that year and
only won one game in the 3N.
Hardly an inspiring season from the Boks, and they improved noticeably
once Os stopped playing in 98 due to injury.
Hardly the makings of greatness....
> Please do tell me what is premature about that?
He's got the opportunity over the next couple of seasons to prove his
quality... I'm reserving judgement until then.
You keep waving those pom poms though, but try and at least get your
facts correct.
Later,
Sean
>
>> Later,
>> Sean
Leon
>
> His point is exactly the point my fellow SA's have been ducking this week.
> What exactly is the problem with a pack that was expected to leave the
> AB's living on scraps of possession, but finished living on 27% scraps
> themselves. According to our media, this weekend it's the Aussies' turn to
> suffer at the hands of our dominant pack.
>
> I've read every excuse imaginable for the 27% possession won by our
> dominant heroes but frankly, I settle for a wimpish pack that gave us 54%
> possession. Our backs might even score six tries!
Mike quite frankly anyone who still reads into the pre-match cliches
these days about "winning the battle up-front" is an idiot. Honestly,
we've been hearing the same tripe for the past 10 years now about how
big and dominant our SA pack is and when have we ever shown this
dominance? Never.
These days any team can get parity with you up-front, nullify you in
the scrums, etc.
His point had nothing to do with my point, which was that around the
park Os was the most exciting tight forward to watch and this
achievements for a player of his structure are amazing!
I mean how else can I spell it out to these pions...?!?! It's not
every fucking day that you see a Front-Row forward track down and
takle Joe Rockococo, or crash tackle Carlos Spencer....
Brent
> Sean Byrne <byrne_sean...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ceaqb5$3ga$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk>...
> > > "Du Randt was probably the best loosehead prop in the world in 1995
> > > but had a number of injuries and probably lost a bit of motivation.
> >
> > One year.
> >
>
>
> One year??? Yes, he highlighted one year, but tell me who was a better
> prop in '96,
Olo Brown and Craig Dowd. Easy. That's without even thinking.
>'98
According to www.sarugby.net, he didn't play in 1998. Certainly
didn't against NZ that year.
>and so far in '04 ??
Kees Meeuws, IMO. And someone French (there's always someone French).
Say Marconnet or de Villiers.
In all seriousness, Kees Meeuws has been a tremendous success
converting to loosehead, and has probably had the better of every
scrum opponent this year (except maybe Julian White). Plus he's solid
around the park - especially with ball in hand.
And just to clarify - I would in no way class Kees Meeuws as 'great'.
> > He's a good prop. No doubt about that, but to call him one of the games
> > greats is premature at best.
> >
>
> "Premature" ?!?!?!? How the fuck can it be "premature" Sean??!?! The
> guy has been playing since '94, and has consistently been the best
> prop in SA if not amongst the top 3 in the world for the past 10 years
> (besides when he was retired).
So he's been the best prop in SA for a decade, except for 1998, and
2000-2003. That's half of the decade!
Greatness for me, in its proper sense, is two things - excellence at
your position, and longevity. Before his comeback this year, du Randt
did not have the latter, and not really the former either - judged on
an international basis, he really only had two or three years where he
could be said to be amongst the best three at his position.
If he can carry on for another two-three years at a high level, then
people may well start to agree with you.
I think you need to realise there is a distinction between greatness
and just 'very goodness'. True greatness for me is embodied by people
like Martin Johnson/John Eales/Sean Fitzpatrick to choose three recent
examples - guys whose excellence is universally acknowledged no matter
what your allegiance. And the amount of resistance you're getting on
du Randt from non-Saffers is a pretty good indication that he's not
held in that degree of awe.
>
> How can that be "premature" exactly?!?!? A World Cup medal winner,
> tri-nations '98 winner, SA player of the year, and part of the record
> 18 match winning Springbok team of 1997-1998.
Players do not automatically become great simply because they play on
good teams. Chris Jack, for example, is a multiple 3N winner,
multiple S12 winner, NZ Player of the Year, first choice lock for the
number one team in the worl etc. But I wouldn't say he's _great_.
I'd say he's very good.
And as noted, he wasn't playing in 1998. SA loosehead was Adrian
Garvey.
And I thought it was only a 17 match streak? Tied with NZ?
Cheers
Brent
Sean Byrne
>
> Mike quite frankly anyone who still reads into the pre-match cliches
> these days about "winning the battle up-front" is an idiot.
You obviously haven't been watching rugby for the past couple of years.
Where exactly do you think England won their matches?
The other old cliche still rings true - forwards win matches, backs
decide by how much (are you listening Mitchell???)
> Honestly,
> we've been hearing the same tripe for the past 10 years now about how
> big and dominant our SA pack
Stop believing everything you read on planetrugby - the South African
forwards lost their edge in the late 90's (cue Ferdi(.
Fortunately it looks like White has gone someway to repairing the
damage.
>is and when have we ever shown this
> dominance? Never.
>
> These days any team can get parity with you up-front, nullify you in
> the scrums, etc.
>
>
> His point had nothing to do with my point, which was that around the
> park Os was the most exciting tight forward to watch and this
> achievements for a player of his structure are amazing!
Is that the sound of moving goalposts?
>
>
> I mean how else can I spell it out to these pions...?!?!
What are you trying to spell out. First it was his greatness, now it
appears to be his excitement factor.
>It's not
> every fucking day that you see a Front-Row forward track down and
> takle Joe Rockococo, or crash tackle Carlos Spencer....
No it isn't. It was impressive, and marks him out as remarkably quick
and agile for a big man.
But it still doesn;t make him one of the games 'greats'.
Later,
Sean
Sean Byrne
>>
>> One year??? Yes, he highlighted one year, but tell me who was a
>> better prop in '96,
>
<snip>
>
>>and so far in '04 ??
>
> Kees Meeuws, IMO.
He's been the find of the season for me.. narrowly edging Robinson.
But he's still lacking technically, which will come with time and
coaching.
Later,
Sean
Bulldog
Who did Grau prop against in 1996 ? Who did Argentina play ?
> He played in 97, and was part of the team that lost to the Lions where
> Tom Smith had the better of him, and also part of the Bok team that
> took a beating up front and got thrashed at Eden Park that year and
> only won one game in the 3N.
All true except the actual prop he propped against...Paul Wallace was the Lions THP.
David Carson
> In all seriousness, Kees Meeuws has been a tremendous success
> converting to loosehead, and has probably had the better of every
> scrum opponent this year (except maybe Julian White). Plus he's solid
> around the park - especially with ball in hand.
>
> And just to clarify - I would in no way class Kees Meeuws as 'great'.
Although he does hold the world record for most test tries by a prop, so
he's in the history books, even if he is only 'good', not 'great'.
Cheers!
David...
Brent
<byrne_sean...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Brent wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> One year??? Yes, he highlighted one year, but tell me who was a
>>> better prop in '96,
>>
><snip>
>>
>>>and so far in '04 ??
>>
>> Kees Meeuws, IMO.
>
>He's been the find of the season for me.. narrowly edging Robinson.
Agree. Especially annoying given he got a few brief runs at loosehead as a
sub in RWC and impressed, but the NZ brains trust decided that Dave Hewitt
was the better choice at loosehead for the semi. Hindsight is a wonderful
thing, but he should have played in that game - especially against the
pussycat Australian front row.
>But he's still lacking technically, which will come with time and
>coaching.
Yeah, he does tend to get by a bit on brute force at the moment. And
cheating by delaying his bind and using his left arm on his thigh to
support the initial hit.
Cheers
Brent
Brent
No. Merely very good. And it could just be a fluke.
He would need to repeat his performance in other newsgroups in order to be
considered great.
Cheers
Brent
Mike Amm
> Mike quite frankly anyone who still reads into the pre-match cliches
> these days about "winning the battle up-front" is an idiot. Honestly,
> we've been hearing the same tripe for the past 10 years now about how
> big and dominant our SA pack is and when have we ever shown this
> dominance? Never.
>
> These days any team can get parity with you up-front, nullify you in
> the scrums, etc.
Besides, there were only 17 scrums, but 31 lineouts & 154 R&M
> His point had nothing to do with my point, which was that around the
> park Os was the most exciting tight forward to watch and this
> achievements for a player of his structure are amazing!
Dunno Leon, I'd prefer Christo Bezuidenhout, subject to him losing 5kg of
blubber. You seem forgetful. Os gets gatvol far too easily for my liking.
> I mean how else can I spell it out to these pions...?!?! It's not
> every fucking day that you see a Front-Row forward track down and
> takle Joe Rockococo, or crash tackle Carlos Spencer....
Fair enough, it was good to see. But there's something quite illogical to
the Bok pack's stats-sheet, that I'm still trying to figure out before I
wax lyrical about Os. Even his friends admit that Os inclines towards
self-indulgence. He was brought up in the Adelaide/Bedford sweetveld strip
where farmers and Beef Shorthorn crosses grow fat and idle side by side.
(Grew up nearby myself)
Fact is, Os was a flyhalf at school but with all those juicy steaks
around, he ate himself into the frontrow. Fate took him to Bloemfontein
and the Professor of Bok Scrummaging, Dougie Heymans. It worked out
brilliantly for him, but periodically Os forgets to stop eating.
On his day, there's only one Os. I think it was CC '98 when the Sharks met
the Cheetahs in the semi. The Sharks were firm favourites but Kings Park
knew Os was the wildcard. The word from our spies in Bloem was that
Os, who had been out injured for two months, had ballooned out to 135kg.
When the teams ran on to Kings Park, every Natal supporter knew we were
kneedeep in sewage. The sleek whippet that ran on wearing Os' face, had
spent two months at a health hydro. The Sharks were taken apart in the
scrums, tackled stukkend in the loose and buried 2m deep in the last
twenty, for an easy Free State win. It was all Os, who had trimmed down to
a sleek 122kg.
That Os was 25 years old but even then, his great performances were few
and far between. Maybe we need to balance our stats-sheet.
Sean Byrne
I was talking about play in general rather than one on one... I'm aware
Tom Smith is a loosehead.
Later,
Sean
Sean Byrne
>> Roberto Grau for another.
>
> Who did Grau prop against in 1996 ? Who did Argentina play ?
Tournaire and Marconnet.
Did you see the 3N game in the weekend? Os made little impact against
Baxter, pretty much the weakest tighthead playing in the top tier at
the moment, and the South African scrum conceded a tighthead.
Later,
Sean
Bulldog
> Tournaire and Marconnet.
Marconnet in 1996 ?
> Did you see the 3N game in the weekend? Os made little impact against
> Baxter, pretty much the weakest tighthead playing in the top tier at
> the moment, and the South African scrum conceded a tighthead.
Yes that is the second week running the Bok scrum has been crushed
just after the replacement came on...it tells me that they have less
strength in depth than before..but I will concede that OX was under
huge pressure in that scrum, but more from van der Linde getting
hammered back by Bill Young and the Bok scrum was badly off balance.
Bulldog
> thing, but he should have played in that game - especially against the
> pussycat Australian front row.
Well he did play..he was the prop that eased off of THP Ben Darwin
when he shouted "Neck".
David Carson
Yes, he came on as a sub for Dave Hewett, can't remember exactly when,
but since Darwin was "stretchered off after a collapsed scrum in the
49th minute", it can't have been much after half-time, if at all..
Cheers!
David...
Brent
As a sub, late in the game.
Cheers
Brent
Sean Byrne
>>
>> Tournaire and Marconnet.
>
> Marconnet in 1996 ?
Apologies... 1998 was the year he played the French.
>
>> Did you see the 3N game in the weekend? Os made little impact against
>> Baxter, pretty much the weakest tighthead playing in the top tier at
>> the moment, and the South African scrum conceded a tighthead.
>
> Yes that is the second week running the Bok scrum has been crushed
> just after the replacement came on...it tells me that they have less
> strength in depth than before..
Especially at tighthead. Making Leon's claim that Os is one of the
games greats because of his dominance of his provincial opposition more
than a little tenuous.
> but I will concede that OX was under
> huge pressure in that scrum, but more from van der Linde getting
> hammered back by Bill Young and the Bok scrum was badly off balance.
A Bok prop getting hammered by Bill Young is something I never thought
I'd see...
Later,
Sean
Bulldog
> A Bok prop getting hammered by Bill Young is something I never thought
> I'd see...
Me too..Young has IMHO usually been illegal at scrum time....and
usually gets a decent shove on when he goes outside his THP
(illegally) and gets him off balance. The sheer bulk of Karl Hayman
ought to make is job this weekend a bit harder.
rick boyd
That can't be right ... Gordon Bray and that prop they have
commentating now keep going on about how all the OTHER props in the
Tri Nations are up to skulduggery in the scrums. How Meuws's elbow is
pointing downward when it should be pointing sideways. And how his
hand is often on the ground.
Do you mean to imply that Australian props get up to mischief as well?
From the commentary I could only assume they were innocent, blameless
and flawless. This IS surprising.
-- rick boyd
Bulldog
> Do you mean to imply that Australian props get up to mischief as well?
> From the commentary I could only assume they were innocent, blameless
> and flawless. This IS surprising.
>
> -- rick boyd
Rick I hate to be the one to break this to you...but yes Dan Crowley
is prone to spouting bollocks too !