My Appologies for AJ Venter - he's an idiot !!!

Yazoo

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Dec 10, 2000, 2:39:28 PM12/10/00

to

Hi, I'm SAfrican and would just like to appologise for AJ Venters behaviour
and the incident where he stood on DeDrugio's face.

I've always hated AJ Venter since his days as a young FreeSate 8th man. He's
not a hard player....he's a fucking filthy dirty player.
Even when he plays in the SA Domestic competitions, he's always doing shit
off the ball. Throwing punches, racking peoples heads, straight-arm
tackling, head-butting, etc.

When he played against my team (Western Province) in this years Currie Cup
at Newlands, I was angered by his dirty play. Yet when I posted or
complained to other people the Natal faithfull continued to support him and
say that it was in "the spirit of the game". Well I think he is a shamefull
bastard and a disgrace to SA Rugby.
He gives a bad name to SA Rugby and because of players like him we get
stigmatized as dirty racist assholes......which really we are not.

AJ Venter is the kind of guy that was a bully in the school yard and SA
Rugby would be better off if he were banned !!!

I really hope that one day he meets his match and some big player on the
field turns around and beats the shit out of him. That would put a smile on
my face.

Later

Marc O'Brien

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Dec 10, 2000, 3:11:09 PM12/10/00

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"Yazoo" <23_N...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:910mbl$12r3$1...@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za...

> Hi, I'm SAfrican and would just like to appologise for AJ Venters
behaviour
> and the incident where he stood on DeDrugio's face.
>
> I've always hated AJ Venter since his days as a young FreeSate 8th man.
He's
> not a hard player....he's a fucking filthy dirty player.
> Even when he plays in the SA Domestic competitions, he's always doing shit
> off the ball. Throwing punches, racking peoples heads, straight-arm
> tackling, head-butting, etc.
>
> When he played against my team (Western Province) in this years Currie Cup
> at Newlands, I was angered by his dirty play. Yet when I posted or
> complained to other people the Natal faithfull continued to support him
and
> say that it was in "the spirit of the game". Well I think he is a
shamefull
> bastard and a disgrace to SA Rugby.
> He gives a bad name to SA Rugby and because of players like him we get
> stigmatized as dirty racist assholes......which really we are not.

I take offence by this, as a South Afican living in Britain, this place is
far more racist than you'll ever believe. I'd hate to know the fate of
people's other than white in Britain should they have by chance been the
majority, judging by the attitudes and actions here. Hell, lets not even
judge by attitudes and actions here, lets look at USA, Oz and NZ all of
which were British colonies wheras SA was originally a Dutch (not colony)
through fare (spell). The Brits somehow saw to it that natives will never
likely win majority rule in USA, Oz or NZ simply because somehow natives are
no longer majority (hw did the brits affect that)

There are similarities between the Dutch (holland obviously) and SA. The
dutch accept many so called sins as natural human tendancies while the brits
consider these same aspects vile. The brits can't tollerate difference (look
at their soccer fans).

...I was about to mention religious aspects but I forget in this day and age
religion still exists and so I might offend some....

We should be proud that natives now govern SA while USA, Oz and NZ might be
ashamed of their extreem peice of British heritage (minority natives)

So please don't give me that shit about us being racist !

I worked in Nigeria a while back and they loved us South Africans over
there, they told me how they despised the brits mostly because the brits
thought themselves aloof somehow. Problem with a brit is that anyone who
can't pronounce or spell how a brit thinks it should be is wrong. Therin
lies the reason why only SA now has native majority rule. We know how to
accept and live with difference, the brits even today still try to beleive
everyone is the same, everyone should eat fish and chips and talk abut the
whether and how nice a day it is. This is all foundational racism without
awareness.

So look for the Mandela of USA, Oz and NZ before you come with all this
racist bullshit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unknown

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Dec 10, 2000, 3:21:11 PM12/10/00

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On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 21:39:28 +0200, "Yazoo" <23_N...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

<<>Hi, I'm SAfrican and would just like to appologise for AJ Venters
behaviour
>and the incident where he stood on DeDrugio's face.>>

Ah bullshit man, Delaglio was on the wrong side of the ruck spoiling a
great attacking ball. Bloody professional foul. He was not raked - if
he was he would have had a spolt face this evening. He was just told
to get the fuck away from the offside position.

Ever had a cat warn you to stop now? Same thing. Gentle rap with the
claws.

Marc O'Brien

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Dec 10, 2000, 3:27:06 PM12/10/00

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<Ferdi Greyling> wrote in message news:3a33e536...@news.icon.co.za...

Damn right 'n all man, spot right in fact :-)

Unknown

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Dec 10, 2000, 5:43:23 PM12/10/00

to

On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:11:09 -0000, "Marc O'Brien"
<mlob...@fridgetech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>I take offence by this, as a South Afican living in Britain, this place is
>far more racist than you'll ever believe. I'd hate to know the fate of
>people's other than white in Britain should they have by chance been the
>majority, judging by the attitudes and actions here.

Doh, why bring the Brits into it, the previous poster was a S African.

Probably the addition of those 1.3 million White S Africans who have
recently arrived(your figures) have seemed to make everybody more
racist.

>which were British colonies wheras SA was originally a Dutch (not colony)
>through fare (spell).

Ever heard of the British colonies of Natal and Cape Colony? I suggest
you go back and reread your history books.

>
>There are similarities between the Dutch (holland obviously) and SA. The
>dutch accept many so called sins as natural human tendancies while the brits
>consider these same aspects vile. The brits can't tollerate difference (look
>at their soccer fans).
>
>...I was about to mention religious aspects but I forget in this day and age
>religion still exists and so I might offend some....
>
>We should be proud that natives now govern SA while USA, Oz and NZ might be
>ashamed of their extreem peice of British heritage (minority natives)

If you are so proud of the natives governing SA what are 1.3 million
white S Africans doing in Britain ? ( again quoting your figures ) Why
don't you return home if you hate it here so much?

>So please don't give me that shit about us being racist !
>

LOL, one Truth and Reconciliation Commission and now it turns out
White South Africans were never racist. Tell that to your Boer mates.

Hell, the whole world has recently seen how "unracist" your police are
these days when dealing with illegal immigrants.

What has all this to do with somebody DELIBERATELY stamping on
Dallaglio's face?

Marc O'Brien

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Dec 10, 2000, 7:03:19 PM12/10/00

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<M Hunt> wrote in message news:3a3b0488...@enews.newsguy.com...

> On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:11:09 -0000, "Marc O'Brien"
> <mlob...@fridgetech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >I take offence by this, as a South Afican living in Britain, this place
is
> >far more racist than you'll ever believe. I'd hate to know the fate of
> >people's other than white in Britain should they have by chance been the
> >majority, judging by the attitudes and actions here.
> Doh, why bring the Brits into it, the previous poster was a S African.
>
>
> Probably the addition of those 1.3 million White S Africans who have
> recently arrived(your figures) have seemed to make everybody more
> racist.

Lol, poor excuse pal :-)

> >which were British colonies wheras SA was originally a Dutch (not colony)
> >through fare (spell).
> Ever heard of the British colonies of Natal and Cape Colony? I suggest
> you go back and reread your history books.
>
> >
> >There are similarities between the Dutch (holland obviously) and SA. The
> >dutch accept many so called sins as natural human tendancies while the
brits
> >consider these same aspects vile. The brits can't tollerate difference
(look
> >at their soccer fans).
> >
> >...I was about to mention religious aspects but I forget in this day and
age
> >religion still exists and so I might offend some....
> >
> >We should be proud that natives now govern SA while USA, Oz and NZ might
be
> >ashamed of their extreem peice of British heritage (minority natives)
> If you are so proud of the natives governing SA what are 1.3 million
> white S Africans doing in Britain ? ( again quoting your figures ) Why
> don't you return home if you hate it here so much?
> >So please don't give me that shit about us being racist !
> >
> LOL, one Truth and Reconciliation Commission and now it turns out
> White South Africans were never racist. Tell that to your Boer mates.

Perhaps you might define racism, lol, perhaps describe your national average
attitude toward the russions during the cold war :-) Why have you ignored my
other colonies scenarios?

> Hell, the whole world has recently seen how "unracist" your police are
> these days when dealing with illegal immigrants.

Hmm, what percentage of SA's population are illegal? What percentage of the
70 odd murders per day (25000 per year) are commited by these immigrants or
as a result of their presence (I don't know, but I too have seen in the news
what you mention, but I have lived there so I, by experience, tend to
distrust the local media)

Post cold war, arms cache's, armed robberies, 6000 abductions per year, 500
armed bank robberies per year plus perhaps more bank vehicle ambushes per
year? Who is doing all this? How will turning a blind eye to these
immigrants help this? See, in Britain for instance, I'm not aware of any
cold war arms cache's which illigals can get hold of to make a living with
by coersion? Or am I assuming incorrectly that SA's illigals affect this
scenario?

If England had these problems, how would they treat illegal immegrants? Most
illegals I hear about coming to Britain come pretty keenly self sustaining
and even in a contributive fashion.

I really don't know why those police were doing what they were doing, do
they know something of the problems in SA we don't? If they saw what they
were doing as some solution, what was the solution to, what is the problem
with these illegals coming over? Perhaps if they are a problem in that they
will not necessarily help South Africa but most likely worsen the situation
then there need be some form of discouragement? How would you discourage
them if you had too?

What do Americans do on their borders? Can they give advice?

> What has all this to do with somebody DELIBERATELY stamping on
> Dallaglio's face?

My point (indirectly).

Kees Echo

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Dec 11, 2000, 3:05:19 AM12/11/00

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"Yazoo" <23_N...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:910mbl$12r3$1...@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za...

> Hi, I'm SAfrican and would just like to appologise for AJ Venters

> behaviour and the incident where he stood on DeDrugio's face.

Not being one to hold back on any South African thuggery, I must admit
that I couldn't wait to see coverage of this match on TV (delayed) after
reading your post beforehand.

Alas, this incident was like reading a Marc O'Brien post, one big let
down and alot to do with nothing.

> AJ Venter is the kind of guy that was a bully in the school yard and
> SA Rugby would be better off if he were banned !!!

Now I've never been a big fan of AJ's (I actually thought he was a
better player when he was with the Cats) but surely even he isn't in the
same league as Wium Basson? (or John Welborn or Richard Loe)

Kees

Marc O'Brien

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Dec 11, 2000, 3:20:38 AM12/11/00

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"Garjones" <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:j3383tk1ivl4ucq6k...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:11:09 -0000, "Marc O'Brien"
> <mlob...@fridgetech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>

> Don't deflect it Marc. Britain is one of the least racist countries in
> the world. Name the racist politicians here (I can name them in
> France, SA and Germany).

You're talking institution I'm talking about a characteristic quality
inherant within in the people i.e. Jo public himself, after all, it's what
happens within the public arena that actualy matters at the end of the day.

> I will quite confidently say that Britain has less racism than
> Germany, France, Italy, South Africa, Australia, USA and many others.
> Give me anything other than some crappy anecdotal evidence otherwise
> and I'll stick 100% by that.

Looking the biz is not doing the biz :-)

My point is that due to the diversity of peoples in South Africa we, by
experience of having lived within that diversity, are more tolerant of
difference (definitely) than what I've seen in London.

So what I'm saying is I don't want to hear a SA poster saying such things
even just as conversational decoration. He probably hasn't travelled to
realise what it is I'm saying.

Huw Morris

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Dec 11, 2000, 5:38:16 AM12/11/00

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Marc O'Brien wrote:

> I take offence by this, as a South Afican living in Britain,

If you dislike us Brits so much, why don't you fuck off back to South
Africa?

Huw

Jon Chapman

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Dec 11, 2000, 7:17:51 AM12/11/00

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"Marc O'Brien" <mlob...@fridgetech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:910nt0$9ob$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...

>
> "Yazoo" <23_N...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:910mbl$12r3$1...@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za...
> > Hi, I'm SAfrican and would just like to appologise for AJ Venters
> behaviour
> > and the incident where he stood on DeDrugio's face.

Please do not apologize for this, Yazoo. I heard the incident different and
in anycase, it would be a trivial matter compared to the most haenous crime
perpetrated by your nation.

Which as we all know is that you let Marc O'Brien escape from the secure
unit at the mental institution.

> I take offence by this, as a South Afican living in Britain, this place is
> far more racist than you'll ever believe. I'd hate to know the fate of

Ah Marc. Back again with the usual stuff and the usual results. How
delighted you must be that there are good people here who haven't
encountered you before and don't know you for the spineless little troll
that you are.

Quite the highest proof of the supremely tolerant nature of the British is
that you've resided there for 8 years without having the living shit kicked
out of you.

Nice website, by the way. I wonder if potential customers will be more
disturbed by the fact that you have proudly included a section entitled
"Pictures of myself working on various types of refrigeration gear" or the
copies of every instance of xenophobic anti-British botty-belch that you've
come up with here today that I've just posted on the discussion board there.

JC

Jamie Knowles

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Dec 11, 2000, 7:37:54 AM12/11/00

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Huw Morris <huw.m...@rl.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3A34AE98...@rl.ac.uk...

Hear, Hear

John Hill

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Dec 11, 2000, 7:53:31 AM12/11/00

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On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:21:11 GMT, (Ferdi Greyling) wrote:

>
><<>Hi, I'm SAfrican and would just like to appologise for AJ Venters
>behaviour
>>and the incident where he stood on DeDrugio's face.>>
>
>Ah bullshit man, Delaglio was on the wrong side of the ruck spoiling a
>great attacking ball. Bloody professional foul. He was not raked - if
>he was he would have had a spolt face this evening. He was just told
>to get the fuck away from the offside position.
>
>Ever had a cat warn you to stop now? Same thing. Gentle rap with the
>claws.

Look at the video Ferdi. AJ Venter looked down, saw Dallaglio's face
and stood on it. Ruck him out by all means but not the head.

After all look what it did to your brain.

JH

John Hill

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Dec 11, 2000, 7:53:32 AM12/11/00

to

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:38:16 +0000, Huw Morris <huw.m...@rl.ac.uk>
wrote:

Because he's too scared.

JH

John Hill

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Dec 11, 2000, 7:53:32 AM12/11/00

to

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 12:17:51 GMT, "Jon Chapman"
<jcha...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

>
>Nice website, by the way. I wonder if potential customers will be more
>disturbed by the fact that you have proudly included a section entitled
>"Pictures of myself working on various types of refrigeration gear" or the
>copies of every instance of xenophobic anti-British botty-belch that you've
>come up with here today that I've just posted on the discussion board there.

ROTFLMAO

JH

Portnoy

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Dec 11, 2000, 8:50:35 AM12/11/00

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"John Hill" <jo...@recruitcrm.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0M00OoBRzAtV3U...@4ax.com...

Would you employ someone who wrote this as anything other than a
bartender/cleaner/porter?

"The client never gave my client the go ahead to tear the compressors down
for a definitive analysis scenario to be developed."

Marc O'Brien

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Dec 11, 2000, 10:03:02 AM12/11/00

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In article <PB3Z5.12639$xW4.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,

"Jon Chapman" <jcha...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> "Marc O'Brien" <mlob...@fridgetech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:910nt0$9ob$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Yazoo" <23_N...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:910mbl$12r3$1...@nnrp01.ops.uunet.co.za...
> > > Hi, I'm SAfrican and would just like to appologise for AJ Venters
> > behaviour
> > > and the incident where he stood on DeDrugio's face.
>
> Please do not apologize for this, Yazoo. I heard the incident
different

Yes, it is refreshing to hear comments rather more proportionate to the
incident. The comments during the game and in the papers today are
really uncalled for and only spoil the occassion.

> Which as we all know is that you let Marc O'Brien escape from the
secure
> unit at the mental institution.

Lol, I do like that about the UK Brits, as Bill Bryson says, anyone
with an opinion is considered mental :-)

> > I take offence by this, as a South Afican living in Britain, this
place is
> > far more racist than you'll ever believe. I'd hate to know the fate
of
>
> Ah Marc. Back again with the usual stuff and the usual results. How
> delighted you must be that there are good people here who haven't
> encountered you before and don't know you for the spineless little
troll
> that you are.

Seems you miss the point, the original poster really needn't mention
the racist thing. It has no bearing on the incident.

Then I think about why he feels it may have bearing on the incident and
I realised the guy quite likely hasn't travelled to say England where
he could sit with the locals over a beer and listen to them condemn
people of other colours for one prejudiced reason or another.

Anyway, I might have a lot to say about this but if I did then email
might help this group concentrate on the rugger. I come to the group to
read opinions on Rugger, I tend not to by the papers because they
always have some snarly comment to make against SA and the reporing is
rarely objective its all just slanted opinion.

In another thread I said liked the game and sinply said that much, then
you get some loser come on in reply and make the "yeah but ..." call.
What an ass!

> Quite the highest proof of the supremely tolerant nature of the
British is
> that you've resided there for 8 years without having the living shit
kicked
> out of you.

I am a brit, just an honest one who is confident enough in himself and
especially his profession to feel making likely controversial calls is
just a harmless way of tentative expression :-) Speak up, if you're
wrong you're wrong, if you're right your right. Whether wrong or right
everyones perspect changes somewhat.

The brits I know like me, respect me and above all respect my honesty,
and I don't think they would side with you on your stance that people
with different opinions to you should have the living shit kicked out
of them, that stance is certainly against my grain. If that were the
way things worked then people would not feel free to express their
opinions and we'd all miss the exitement.

I might agree that some of my friends here say I am too honest and out
spoken. Like the time I went for a job interview years back and told
the inteviewer I didn't think he was qualified to interview me and
didn't the company have someone more likely to appreciate what it is I
want to trade with the comapany. My buddies say I should have kept
quiet and used some of their ideas to join and make my way up the
company. Just the way I am :-)

I respect people like Glen hoddle (spell) who at least respects others
right to hear his honest opinion. Problem with the brits is that they
don't like people to express personal opinions other than any that
might be engineered for the occasion.

People in the UK still take other peoples opinions too seriously for
people to be allowed to express them freely.

> Nice website, by the way. I wonder if potential customers will be more
> disturbed by the fact that you have proudly included a section
entitled
> "Pictures of myself working on various types of refrigeration gear"
or the
> copies of every instance of xenophobic anti-British botty-belch that
you've
> come up with here today that I've just posted on the discussion board
there.

Customers buy the product. If they happen to know somehow that I think
my British friends and most brits I get to meet or work with are
xenophobic, what does that matter. If I beleive blacks make for better
sportsman than white am I supposed to keep quiet about that because I'm
in Britain? Are the brits so volatile that at the whisper of such an
opinion they want to kick the living shit out of somebody for seemingly
criticising white sportsman ?

I think it's about time all these race related remarks fall aside where
they belong. They don't have their place anymore.

100 years from now when they're studying the 1600 thru 2000 era they
may be moved (horrified) by what "we" Brits did during the clonising
centuries than any other period/instance.

Marc

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Marc O'Brien

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Dec 11, 2000, 10:14:38 AM12/11/00

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In article <6X4Z5.19451$Bh.157707@NewsReader>,

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Dec 11, 2000, 10:31:12 AM12/11/00

to

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:05:19 +1300, "Kees Echo"
<save.so...@nzrfu.co.nz> wrote:

<<>Alas, this incident was like reading a Marc O'Brien post, one big
let
>down and alot to do with nothing.>>

Indeed a nothing incident. But enough to make a few Brits piss in
their pants.
But then, they like doing that, don't they?

<<>Now I've never been a big fan of AJ's (I actually thought he was a
>better player when he was with the Cats) but surely even he isn't in the
>same league as Wium Basson? (or John Welborn or Richard Loe)>>

Or a late charge with the shoulder by a hooker on a scrum half. But
then again there lives not a Brit that saw that one. They were all
looking away from the TV when that one happened.
Or down at their dicks.
Who knows, who cares...

Huw Morris

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Dec 11, 2000, 11:05:18 AM12/11/00

to

Marc O'Brien wrote:
> I think it's about time all these race related remarks fall aside where
> they belong. They don't have their place anymore.

You brought the subject up. Apologise for calling the British a load of
racist bigots, and we'll forget the matter...

Huw

Mees Roelofs

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Dec 11, 2000, 12:03:27 PM12/11/00

to

(M Hunt) wrote:

>>which were British colonies wheras SA was originally a Dutch (not colony)
>>through fare (spell).

>Ever heard of the British colonies of Natal and Cape Colony? I suggest
>you go back and reread your history books.

I might reckon the Kaapkolonie (these days: Kaapprovinsie) was as
Dutch as could be, before the British colonial powers decided that
their empire was not yet big enough, taking it from the Dutch.

I think it was in the early 1800s, when the Dutch were merely dealing
with the French rather than looking after their colonies (which
weren't colonies in its true sense until the late 1800s anyway).

--
Mees Roelofs (Rotterdam, The Netherlands)
Another 'for' voter in the RSRUA ballot
Planet Pino (RSRU FAQ & Shield) * http://pino.faithweb.com
roelofs (at) pino.faithweb.com

Mees Roelofs

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Dec 11, 2000, 12:03:28 PM12/11/00

to

Garjones <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote:

>Don't deflect it Marc. Britain is one of the least racist countries in
>the world. Name the racist politicians here

I think this has to do with your electoral system (if 49% of a
district are electing the racist, their opinion won't be reflected in
parliament, as long as the other 51% vote for the Labour candidate),
as well as with the lack of a charismatic leader of the extreme right
wing.

Reflection of racism in parliament does not mean that a nation is
racist. People are often voting for such a party for different
reasons, with these parties trying to get rid of their racist image
(look at Belgium). The Netherlands and Germany have a lack of such
parties and politicians, but I don't have the illusion that the
problem of racism is there, not too much worse than anywhere else on
the Continent, since the sentiments really are there.

I think it is naive to say a nation lack racism, when no racist
politicians are in parliament. Racism is merely something present
among the people. My knowledge of Britain on this point is merely
superficial, but how come racism is mentioned repeatedly in the
(Continental) media as a problem for Britain?

It may have to do with an observation made not too long ago by a
friend of mine. In The Netherlands, you'll see everything that is not
mainstream, giving the outsider the idea that NL is made up out of the
weirdest type of people, who do the weirdest things. In Britain, you
won't see everything that is not mainstream, giving the outsider the
idea that any subcultures do not exist, whereas they do.

>(I can name them in France, SA and Germany).

I'm pretty much interested in your German candidate. I don't know one.

Marc O'Brien

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Dec 11, 2000, 1:34:36 PM12/11/00

to

In article <u3593tobo96k5pe6m...@4ax.com>,

Mees Roelofs <invalid...@see.sig.for.correct.one> wrote:
> (M Hunt) wrote:
>
> >>which were British colonies wheras SA was originally a Dutch (not
colony)
> >>through fare (spell).
>
> >Ever heard of the British colonies of Natal and Cape Colony? I
suggest
> >you go back and reread your history books.
>
> I might reckon the Kaapkolonie (these days: Kaapprovinsie) was as
> Dutch as could be, before the British colonial powers decided that
> their empire was not yet big enough, taking it from the Dutch.

Yeah, the Dutch just by chance decided to temporarily make use of the
cape lands below Table mountain to grow replenisments for their ships
to Java trading spice etc. They had no real intention of colonising
that's why in my above paragraph put in brackets "not colony". But the
decendants of those temporary farmers decided to go inland to make a
life for themselves hoping to keep 100% fruits of labour not the mere
10% the dutch gov let them keep. Dutch soldiers had to be sent inland
to force these rebel farmers back to the area around table mountain but
eventually they gave up dragging these rebels back and so the
unoffocial colonisation process began.

But I have met dutch people and I obviously know my own people
(british) and I feel, note I haven't read all the history books to do
with other counties, but I feel that it was native South Africans good
fortune that the colonisation was originally dutch. I believe the dutch
I have met have an idealistic approach to life and people. Just my
opinion, I could be wrong.

If instead the dutch colonised the USA in the beginning what would the
native Indian population be today, might they have been a majority and
USA today voting in a native Indian leader? I don't know.

> I think it was in the early 1800s, when the Dutch were merely dealing
> with the French rather than looking after their colonies (which
> weren't colonies in its true sense until the late 1800s anyway).

I can't remember how Britain came to own SA, I always thought it had
something to do with a "thank you", the Dutch felt they owed Britain a
favour for some reason ???

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 11, 2000, 2:12:04 PM12/11/00

to

In article <s9593t8ik1v2frs12...@4ax.com>,

Mees Roelofs <invalid...@see.sig.for.correct.one> wrote:
> Garjones <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >Don't deflect it Marc. Britain is one of the least racist countries
in
> >the world. Name the racist politicians here
>
> I think this has to do with your electoral system (if 49% of a
> district are electing the racist, their opinion won't be reflected in
> parliament, as long as the other 51% vote for the Labour candidate),
> as well as with the lack of a charismatic leader of the extreme right
> wing.
>
> Reflection of racism in parliament does not mean that a nation is
> racist. People are often voting for such a party for different
> reasons, with these parties trying to get rid of their racist image
> (look at Belgium). The Netherlands and Germany have a lack of such
> parties and politicians, but I don't have the illusion that the
> problem of racism is there, not too much worse than anywhere else on
> the Continent, since the sentiments really are there.
>
> I think it is naive to say a nation lack racism, when no racist
> politicians are in parliament. Racism is merely something present
> among the people. My knowledge of Britain on this point is merely
> superficial, but how come racism is mentioned repeatedly in the
> (Continental) media as a problem for Britain?

I have good friends who are English and have lived here all their
lives, I certainly don't mean to condemn them or anything as radical as
that, unfortunately that's sometimes how it sounds to people reading
posts on the newsgroup.

But I honestly believe the British Brits have more racist tendancies
than South African Brits. In the early months of my first job here in
the UK the guys were trying to get to know me. The questions they asked
about SA were so rediculous you wondered just what the hell were they
being fed by the media. We had a very charismatic black guy working
with us, a very friendly and open minded guy, him and I got on very
well. One lunch the Guys made jokes about me wanting to marry this guys
sister and that's why I might be spending time working with the guy,
trying to befriend him to get to his sister. I laughed and said I
wouldn't want to marry a black woman. One of the guys had a go at me
for that. After lunch the same guy having a go at me earlier told me in
the corridor he agreed with me and he started slagging blacks off. I
told him he was an ass, he should have been honest and let the black
guy know his true feelings that way they'll know where each other
stands and will respect each other more especially appreciating honesty.

What got me the most was that my saying I didn't want to marry a black
woman was read as me saying I hate blacks. And it is this sort of wierd
interpretation that makes me think the Brits are predisposed to being
racist.

Don't pretend to be something you're not, it leads to suspicions and
unease. Like the guy who quotes from my website then says because of
that sentance I am only worthy of a bar job. I know some great people
who started with bar jobs so there is nothing wrong with bar jobs, it's
just hard work. But he surely must realise I am highly competent in my
profession, I have people here in Britain saying they think I am not
one of the best in Britain but one of the best in the world. I think
that like the guy who had a go at me in my story above I think the guy
criticising my sentence is being dishonest.

Bullying in British schools I understand is a problem more than
anywhere else, the problem of accepting different here is a
foundational problem. I beleive it has bearing on the principle I'm
tackling here.

But none of this means I hate the British. I am British, I have British
family here, Bitish friends (who appreciate my honesty). It's just that
we have a South African who appologises for his teams players trivial
infringement and then also expresses seeming guilt about some supposed
racist implication and all I'm saying is he should get on the plane and
come live here for a while and he'll go back home proud and glad he has
nothing to be ashamed of and instead he should keep up the good work
and the honest and friendly stance :-)

Marc

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 11, 2000, 2:40:19 PM12/11/00

to

In article <3A34FB3E...@rl.ac.uk>,

Well again like the AJ - dally wally thing I see lots about nothing
here.

But sincerely, I do appologise to those who feel offended, I tackle an
issue and expect people to take a distant stance while considering what
it is I have to say. I make the mistake of not realising this often
isn't what happens.

I don't want people to think that what I say is stuff I beleive to be
absolute.

Perhaps, as was suggested in an email I received, I should find ways to
type my thoughts that better project my actual slant instead of sending
quickly scribbled unproofed notes that are then open to too much
unwanted interpretation.

I beleive that all people are inherintly good and as such will read
what I say with similar beliefs, but perhaps while that may be so it
may not be so exactly the way I think it's so.

David Bertenshaw

unread,

Dec 11, 2000, 5:36:44 PM12/11/00

to

(Ferdi Greyling) writes:

> Or a late charge with the shoulder by a hooker on a scrum half. But
> then again there lives not a Brit that saw that one. They were all
> looking away from the TV when that one happened.

Ferdi, if you're referring to Greening on JVW, then I and several
other English posters not only noticed but wondered on this ng why
Clive Woodward continues to pick the stupid indisciplined little
hooker (and he can't throw straight).

And if you're not referring to Greening, well, I thought I'd get in a late
shoulder charge of my own.. Drop him till he learns not to be so stupid.

David

Tama McConnell

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 12:00:43 AM12/12/00

to

Why dont you want to marry a "black" woman ?

Tama

Marc O'Brien <mlob...@email.com> wrote in message
news:9138tt$oep$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

Ian Daley

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 12:40:06 AM12/12/00

to

She wouldn't go with the furntiure :-)))))

But seriously I know where he is coming from. It could simply in his
instance be a matter of taste rather than racial distinction. I gather he
meant it in the same context as 'I don't fancy redheaded girls' rather than
'I don't want to marry her because she is a black'.

Sometimes its hard to tell the difference I agree, but there is no malice or
hatred in that.

Ian

Tama McConnell <tama.mc...@nospam.paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:9765974...@shelley.paradise.net.nz...

Garth

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 2:32:30 AM12/12/00

to

On Sun, Marc O'Brien <mlob...@fridgetech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>I take offence by this, as a South Afican living in Britain,

And then went on to say:

>What makes you think I dislike the Brits? I am a Brit!

So, in reality, you're a Soutpiel... ;-)

But seriously Marc, I am in awe of your perseverance and resolution.
How in hell did you, as a self-proclaimed Durbanite, manage to survive
eight English Winters?

And worse still, the unfulfiled expectations of eight English Summers?

It was mentioned, in a previous thread, that there are / were over one
million crazy South Africans like you sampling the delights of England
in general and London specifically. Can anyone direct me to the source
of the research conducted to derive these figures?

Seems like bollocks to me.

Garth.

this place is
>far more racist than you'll ever believe. I'd hate to know the fate of

>people's other than white in Britain should they have by chance been the

>majority, judging by the attitudes and actions here. Hell, lets not even
>judge by attitudes and actions here, lets look at USA, Oz and NZ all of

>which were British colonies wheras SA was originally a Dutch (not colony)

>through fare (spell). The Brits somehow saw to it that natives will never
>likely win majority rule in USA, Oz or NZ simply because somehow natives are
>no longer majority (hw did the brits affect that)

>
>There are similarities between the Dutch (holland obviously) and SA. The
>dutch accept many so called sins as natural human tendancies while the brits
>consider these same aspects vile. The brits can't tollerate difference (look
>at their soccer fans).
>
>...I was about to mention religious aspects but I forget in this day and age
>religion still exists and so I might offend some....
>
>We should be proud that natives now govern SA while USA, Oz and NZ might be
>ashamed of their extreem peice of British heritage (minority natives)
>

>So please don't give me that shit about us being racist !
>

>I worked in Nigeria a while back and they loved us South Africans over
>there, they told me how they despised the brits mostly because the brits
>thought themselves aloof somehow. Problem with a brit is that anyone who
>can't pronounce or spell how a brit thinks it should be is wrong. Therin
>lies the reason why only SA now has native majority rule. We know how to
>accept and live with difference, the brits even today still try to beleive
>everyone is the same, everyone should eat fish and chips and talk abut the
>whether and how nice a day it is. This is all foundational racism without
>awareness.
>
>So look for the Mandela of USA, Oz and NZ before you come with all this
>racist bullshit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>
>> AJ Venter is the kind of guy that was a bully in the school yard and SA
>> Rugby would be better off if he were banned !!!
>>

>> I really hope that one day he meets his match and some big player on the
>> field turns around and beats the shit out of him. That would put a smile
>on
>> my face.
>>
>> Later
>>
>>
>>
>
>

John Hill

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 3:15:40 AM12/12/00

to

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:28:49 GMT, (Ferdi Greyling) wrote:

>Did you see Delaglio in the post match interview? I did. On TV as
>well. That is not a face stood on

Well, it was a face stood on, just not very competently. It seems to
me the intent and the action, not the effectiveness are what is in
question. AJ Venter is a thug and should not have gone unpunished.
Still it's only a Ba Ba's match isn't it.

JH

John Hill

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 3:15:39 AM12/12/00

to

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:24:20 GMT, (Ferdi Greyling) wrote:

><<>If you dislike us Brits so much, why don't you fuck off back to
>South
>>Africa? >>
>
>Ah! The civilised Brit!

No such thing Ferdi. That's why we conquered half the world :)

JH

Grant Baudin

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 3:51:48 AM12/12/00

to

"John Hill" <jo...@recruitcrm.co.uk> wrote in message

news:L941OgwFai250Z...@4ax.com...

That's the point -you have no proof that the intention was to rake
Delaglio's face with cause to seriously injure him. You just assume that he
is a mindless SA'n "thug" and he deserves to be punished.The only thing you
can go on is the evidence - and there isn't much evidence of raking on
Delaglio's face.

Mike Amm

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 6:37:16 AM12/12/00

to

"Garjones" <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3mda3t8itthf7kh49...@4ax.com...
>
> Yes well you always see the superficial from abroad. I had accusations
> of living in White Wales by Bobs a while back. Not that he was to know
> that Cardiff is the oldest black settlement in Europe and that when NZ
> 'A' played Wales 'A' a few weeks back we had more non-caucasians
> than they did.

Yes when the Boks played Wales, there were non-caucasians in the crowd.
They were all dressed in green and toy-toyed every time the Boks scored!

Except for one black Welshman, sitting in the Welsh executive box,
looking just as glum as Graham Henry. They had just been told that
Chester Williams' grandpappy was not a Welshman :o)

Mike Amm

unread,

Well no - it makes a mess on the floor and Matron gets jolly batey.

>
> <<>Now I've never been a big fan of AJ's (I actually thought he was a
> >better player when he was with the Cats) but surely even he isn't in the
> >same league as Wium Basson? (or John Welborn or Richard Loe)>>

> Or a late charge with the shoulder by a hooker on a scrum half. But
> then again there lives not a Brit that saw that one.

Aside from every Brit posting here who castigated Greening for his lunatic
indiscipline and blessed our good fortune that the twat wasn't binned.

Its on the record in black and white, reproduceable if you don't care to
retract it.

I grow tired of pointing out that you're worth more than this, Ferdi.

Perhaps in the end you're not.

JC

Mees Roelofs

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 8:47:43 AM12/12/00

to

Garjones <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote:

>>I think it is naive to say a nation lack racism, when no racist
>>politicians are in parliament. Racism is merely something present
>>among the people. My knowledge of Britain on this point is merely
>>superficial, but how come racism is mentioned repeatedly in the
>>(Continental) media as a problem for Britain?
>

>I have no idea, probably because the British are always down on
>themselves anyway, the crime rate can drop every year for 10 years and
>people still say it's all going to the dogs. On my first visit to
>Holland a friend was thrown out of a club because they didn't let
>people with crew cuts in because there were so many skinheads causing
>racial violence (the doorman's word not ours). Then we were told that
>Gabber music was skinhead music and racist gangs went to those events.

The Gabber subculture was like that, indeed. Dangerous people. It
started to go wrong when skinheads discovered the fashion among
gabbers to have their head shaven (which was an idea that came from
London, just because it allowed healthier transpiration when partying
wild and taking drugs) and joined them. Add the use of widespread use
of speed among these people and you will understand the atmosphere.

>In Germany I've seen reams of footage and frequent news stories of
>gangs attacking immigrant communities, throwing petrol bombs and the
>like. Black football British players playing Italian teams say they
>faced racism from the terraces unseen in this country for 20 years.

I agree with you that this is unseen on the terraces of British clubs,
but the English hooligan scum is bad enough. I'm not only talking
about their xenophobia, but also about their reactions when Stuart
Barnes made the England side as the first black player ever in the
white shirt.

</snip>

>Anyway I always get myself dragged into this kind of debate and it's
>getting totally off-topic so I'll leave it there and shut up.

Exactly my idea, but I just had to clarify two things here.

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 8:47:36 AM12/12/00

to

In article <3A3603F5...@pop.ntlworld.com>,

louise....@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> Why do you consistently stereotype all brits into one category from
> such limited experiences ?
> At leats say "of the brits I know/met etc." I can assure you that I
and
> many other brits would not think as in the potrayal above.

I hear your point. I don't mean "all" Brits.

Jon Chapman

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 9:16:20 AM12/12/00

to

"Mees Roelofs" <invalid...@see.sig.for.correct.one> wrote in message
news:s9593t8ik1v2frs12...@4ax.com...
> Garjones <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote:
>

> My knowledge of Britain on this point is merely
> superficial,

You stun me.

but how come racism is mentioned repeatedly in the
> (Continental) media as a problem for Britain?

Because your knowledge of Britain on just about every point is superficial
and that's the way you like it.

In this respect you believe yourself ably assisted by the fact that we worry
about it so much ourselves.

It is beyond you to comprehend that because the incidence of racism in
Britain is unacceptable to the majority of the British does not neeccesarily
imply that the incidence of British racism is greater than elsewhere. It
simply implies that we are intolerant of it.

Of course as I don't expect you to accept this, you are quite happy to post
here that we are anti-semitic. Which, since you post it, must surely be
fact, mustn't it?

The fact that post-Kristelnacht, Britain accepted and housed and resettled
more jewish refugees (40,000) than even the US (37,000) and some 27 times
more than the dear old, liberal old NL (Anne Frank) is plainly irrelevant.

> It may have to do with an observation made not too long ago by a
> friend of mine. In The Netherlands, you'll see everything that is not
> mainstream, giving the outsider the idea that NL is made up out of the
> weirdest type of people, who do the weirdest things.

Is that your impression of yourselves? I've always found you a bunch of clog
wearing, tulip growing, dope selling pornographers with little else to do
than stick your fingers in a dyke or a Daf. I know you are because a friend
told me so and what's more, I read it in the Sun.

In Britain, you
> won't see everything that is not mainstream, giving the outsider the
> idea that any subcultures do not exist, whereas they do.

But then, what do I know? I'm not Mees Roelofs, avid believer and peddlar of
tired innacurate stereotypes extraordinaire, by Royal appointment to Queen
Beatrix. The fact that you've no first-hand experience of living in Britain
plainly no object to definitive pronouncement whatever.

Anyway, back to your conversation with Marc - the fact that you alone take
him seriously speaks volumes.

JC

Portnoy

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 10:31:27 AM12/12/00

to

"Mees Roelofs" <invalid...@see.sig.for.correct.one> wrote in message

news:auac3t8am3337hoso...@4ax.com...

There were riots in the streets of London that night.

Barnes is Welsh & white

Nick Evans

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 2:30:07 PM12/12/00

to

In article <3A3603D0...@pop.ntlworld.com>, louise....@pop.ntlw
orld.com writes

>
>
>Ian Daley wrote:
>>
>> She wouldn't go with the furntiure :-)))))
>>
>> But seriously I know where he is coming from. It could simply in his
>> instance be a matter of taste rather than racial distinction. I gather he
>> meant it in the same context as 'I don't fancy redheaded girls' rather than
>> 'I don't want to marry her because she is a black'.
>>
>> Sometimes its hard to tell the difference I agree, but there is no malice or
>> hatred in that.
>
>No. Just pure vanity.
>How can anyone know that they will not fall for what they would usually
>think to be not of their taste ? SOunds like he lacks an open mind. Or
>perhaps Marc is the one who is "predisposed to racist tendancies" for
>writing off such a possibility so easily ?
>
>Kev
>
>

I was addicted to short blondes until I met my half-Chinese wife.
Hadn't expected that (nor had my grandparents, "Ooh, marrying a
chinaman are you? There's lovely, I met a chinaman once on the train to
Cardiff.")

--
Nick Evans

Mark Ogden

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Dec 12, 2000, 2:34:44 PM12/12/00

to

Somewhere along the line you must have apologised for Robbie Fleck too!
Sorry I missed all those posts. Goodness, he is even from Western Province
and the crap he pulls on the field probably means that you ought to put a
boilerplate Robbie Fleck apology in your sig file.

Besides - TV can be misleading. The replay speed may lead to the conclusion
that the boot to the face was deliberate - but maybe, just maybe, the foot
had to go somewhere but the face had got there first. Think of it as a knee
having to go somewhere while a face was already there and you'd have Druggie
putting the knee into Jona Lomu in the WC. All the experts were quite quick
to point out that it was accidental.

Mees Roelofs

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 4:14:56 PM12/12/00

to

"Portnoy" <por...@btconnect.com> wrote:

>> I agree with you that this is unseen on the terraces of British clubs,
>> but the English hooligan scum is bad enough. I'm not only talking
>> about their xenophobia, but also about their reactions when Stuart
>> Barnes made the England side as the first black player ever in the
>> white shirt.
>>
>There were riots in the streets of London that night.
>
>Barnes is Welsh & white

Think I was referring to John Barnes, England and Liverpool (I think)
in the 1980s and 1990s. Black.

Sorry.

Greig Blanchett

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 5:43:15 PM12/12/00

to

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:19:32 GMT, Marc O'Brien <mlob...@email.com>
wrote:

>In article <9765974...@shelley.paradise.net.nz>,
> "Tama McConnell" <tama.mc...@nospam.paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>> Why dont you want to marry a "black" woman ?
>
>I suppose it's not so much "I don't want to", I can't remember how I
>put it on the day of that discussion. But I've always had a bit of an
>obsession with Jody Foster. Ask me why I like Jody Foster, damn hard
>question to answer, I mean, I didn't "decide" to like Jody. I would
>hope I'm normal in that respect.
>
>Marc
>

Normal! Fnurr fnurr.

Jody tends her garden in an uphill direction.

Not that there's anything wrong with that ... but would you want your
sister to marry one?

Mark Jamnik

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 10:27:57 PM12/12/00

to

"Marc O'Brien" <mlob...@email.com> wrote in message

news:9151k0$5ij$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> In article <9765974...@shelley.paradise.net.nz>,
> "Tama McConnell" <tama.mc...@nospam.paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> > Why dont you want to marry a "black" woman ?
>
> I suppose it's not so much "I don't want to", I can't remember how I
> put it on the day of that discussion. But I've always had a bit of an
> obsession with Jody Foster. Ask me why I like Jody Foster, damn hard
> question to answer, I mean, I didn't "decide" to like Jody. I would
> hope I'm normal in that respect.
>

a little bit worrying I would have thought. Is your favourite movie Taxi
Driver? Do you feel the urge to fire a couple of shots at a US president to
save Jodie? (and one would think if you're obsessed with her you could spell
her name properly)

cheers
Mark

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 12, 2000, 7:18:13 PM12/12/00

to

"Greig Blanchett" <gre...@nzrfu.com> wrote in message
news:F728AB29778B1062.A670EBD9...@lp.airnews.net...

> On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:19:32 GMT, Marc O'Brien <mlob...@email.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <9765974...@shelley.paradise.net.nz>,
> > "Tama McConnell" <tama.mc...@nospam.paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> >> Why dont you want to marry a "black" woman ?
> >
> >I suppose it's not so much "I don't want to", I can't remember how I
> >put it on the day of that discussion. But I've always had a bit of an
> >obsession with Jody Foster. Ask me why I like Jody Foster, damn hard
> >question to answer, I mean, I didn't "decide" to like Jody. I would
> >hope I'm normal in that respect.
> >
> >Marc
> >
>
> Normal! Fnurr fnurr.
>
> Jody tends her garden in an uphill direction.

I like to think that's the only reason we never hit it off :-)

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 12:32:00 AM12/13/00

to

"Mark Jamnik" <mar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3a36ec8b@info-int...

>
> "Marc O'Brien" <mlob...@email.com> wrote in message
> news:9151k0$5ij$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <9765974...@shelley.paradise.net.nz>,
> > "Tama McConnell" <tama.mc...@nospam.paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> > > Why dont you want to marry a "black" woman ?
> >
> > I suppose it's not so much "I don't want to", I can't remember how I
> > put it on the day of that discussion. But I've always had a bit of an
> > obsession with Jody Foster. Ask me why I like Jody Foster, damn hard
> > question to answer, I mean, I didn't "decide" to like Jody. I would
> > hope I'm normal in that respect.
> >
>
> a little bit worrying I would have thought.

That's very interesting, how do these thoughts come about then, have you
perhaps just gone ahead and assumed that emphasis should be given to the
word "obsession"?

> Is your favourite movie Taxi Driver?

Have to admit, I haven't seen all her films, I know there is a new one out
lately, can't remember what it was about but I certainly will watch it when
I come across it no doubt.

Favourite movie to date was "Contact" but not because Jody was in it,
instead because I enjoyed the original Novel writen by the late Carl Sagen.
Always had an obsession with Carl and Isak Asimov's works.

> Do you feel the urge to fire a couple of shots at a US president to save
Jodie?

Huh? Lol, could you repeat that question? I don't think I understand.

(and one would think if you're obsessed with her you could spell
> her name properly)

Hmm, interesting, perhaps you're right? Who'm I to argue. I mean, after all,
it probably matters you know.

Marc.

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 12:42:02 AM12/13/00

to

In article <3yTf4FA$ynN6...@dysonbellmartin.demon.co.uk>,

Nick Evans <nickan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <3A3603D0...@pop.ntlworld.com>,
louise....@pop.ntlw
> orld.com writes
> >
> >
> >Ian Daley wrote:
> >>
> >> She wouldn't go with the furntiure :-)))))
> >>
> >> But seriously I know where he is coming from. It could simply in
his
> >> instance be a matter of taste rather than racial distinction. I
gather he
> >> meant it in the same context as 'I don't fancy redheaded girls'
rather than
> >> 'I don't want to marry her because she is a black'.
> >>
> >> Sometimes its hard to tell the difference I agree, but there is no
malice or
> >> hatred in that.
> >
> >No. Just pure vanity.
> >How can anyone know that they will not fall for what they would
usually
> >think to be not of their taste ? SOunds like he lacks an open mind.

Sorry to have confused you. Surely that principle goes without saying?

>Or
> >perhaps Marc is the one who is "predisposed to racist tendancies" for
> >writing off such a possibility so easily ?

Seems maybe (only maybe) you don't like what I've said.

> >Kev
> >
> >
> I was addicted to short blondes until I met my half-Chinese wife.
> Hadn't expected that (nor had my grandparents, "Ooh, marrying a
> chinaman are you? There's lovely, I met a chinaman once on the train
to
> Cardiff.")

I haven't got past the short blondes stage yet :-)

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 12:48:53 AM12/13/00

to

In article <UqqZ5.14638$xW4.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,

"Jon Chapman" <jcha...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> "Mees Roelofs" <invalid...@see.sig.for.correct.one> wrote in
message
> news:s9593t8ik1v2frs12...@4ax.com...
> > Garjones <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
>
> > My knowledge of Britain on this point is merely
> > superficial,
>
> You stun me.

Hmm, why does that reaction sound so heavy to me? Perhaps it's a "in
the eye of the beholder" thing?

I got the impression Mees was speculating in a probing fashion. While
reading his post I could hear a soft intelligent dutch accent thinking
out aloud about a passing thought.

I wonder what it was you envisioned while reading that post, or do you
just not tollerate the fact that people sometimes have thoughts, ask
idle question innocently and even sometimes have opinions?

Hope you get better some day (just kidding) :-)

Marc

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 1:01:15 AM12/13/00

to

In article <915ug3$96d$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>,

An open mind at last, so where are you from then ?

But yeah, you look at the replay and you see a boot going down then you
see AJ's head turn and look at where his boot is and you can see the
guilt on his face as he realises there's a face where he wanted to put
his boot. And then you can see him moving his boot with an appologetic
gesture while he checks to see he hasn't inadvertantly hurt dally wally.

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 1:26:31 AM12/13/00

to

In article <3a35cff9...@news.icon.co.za>,

truen...@icon.co.za (Garth) wrote:
> On Sun, Marc O'Brien <mlob...@fridgetech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >I take offence by this, as a South Afican living in Britain,
>
> And then went on to say:
>
> >What makes you think I dislike the Brits? I am a Brit!
>
> So, in reality, you're a Soutpiel... ;-)

Yup,

> But seriously Marc, I am in awe of your perseverance and resolution.
> How in hell did you, as a self-proclaimed Durbanite, manage to survive
> eight English Winters?

Hey, it's amazing, I can walk outside when it's 5 deg C wearing shorts
and T shirt and it's comfortable. As long as there's no wind.

> And worse still, the unfulfiled expectations of eight English Summers?

The first 4 or so were as hot as any Durban summer. There's always a
great Brit-Oz-Nz-SA croud in London.

seems you've missed the point. Why do you write off black women so
easily ?

Kev

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 6:09:43 AM12/13/00

to

<louise....@pop.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3A3747BA...@pop.ntlworld.com...

Yes you're right, I'm missing the point, perhaps you could help me
understand what it is you're on about?

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 6:10:28 AM12/13/00

to

<louise....@pop.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3A3747A7...@pop.ntlworld.com...

Hmmm, could you elaborate?

Portnoy

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 6:30:46 AM12/13/00

to

"Andy Mulhearn" <unxm...@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message
news:917fvi$5ev$1...@lyonesse.netcom.net.uk...

Stuart Barnes is Welsh (born in Newport?) and played for the Welsh Secondary
Schools. He declined to be considered for the senior Welsh team whilst
playing for Newport.

Andy Mulhearn

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 2:42:38 PM12/13/00

to

In message <V3JZ5.33859$_h.193728@NewsReader>, "Portnoy" <por...@btconnect.com> wrote:

> Stuart Barnes is Welsh (born in Newport?) and played for the Welsh Secondary
> Schools. He declined to be considered for the senior Welsh team whilst
> playing for Newport.
>

Oh, that Stuart Barnes

Mark Jamnik

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 5:10:11 PM12/13/00

to

"Marc O'Brien" <mlob...@fridgetech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:916jah$6ef$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

OK - history lesson time. I was referring to John Hinckley, the chap who put
a couple of slugs in Ronnie Reagan - "Hinckley had developed an obsession
with the actress Jodie Foster after seeing her in the movie "Taxi Driver."
Hinckley also sympathized with the role in the movie played by Robert De
Niro, in which De Niro's character attempted to assassinate a U.S. Senator.
Apparently Hinckley thought Ms. Foster would be impressed if he assassinated
President Reagan." (from
http://www.umi.com/hp/Support/K12/GreatEvents/Reagan.html if you want to
know more)

I hate it when you have to explain a joke

cheers
Mark

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 8:15:05 PM12/13/00

to

"Mark Jamnik" <mar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3a37f392@info-int...

You got me curious now, I'll have to go hire that movie. Reagan hey? Must be
an old movie. Ironic that the article at that link you include says Reagans
political stability actually improved as a result, just the sought of thing
he needed.

I'm sure Jodi (not Jody or Jodie) was impressed, just not as Hinckley
expected.

What about rugby math streakers ? I can never understand why they do that ?

Marc

Jon Chapman

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 8:29:34 PM12/13/00

to

"Garjones" <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:12rf3to98c93rs0sf...@4ax.com...
> On 13 Dec 2000 19:42:38 GMT, "Andy Mulhearn" <unxm...@netcomuk.co.uk>

> wrote:
>
> >In message <V3JZ5.33859$_h.193728@NewsReader>, "Portnoy"
<por...@btconnect.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Stuart Barnes is Welsh (born in Newport?) and played for the Welsh
Secondary
> >> Schools. He declined to be considered for the senior Welsh team whilst
> >> playing for Newport.
> >>
> >
> >Oh, that Stuart Barnes
>

> The same Stuart Barnes who does not believe in countries and
> nationality and never sang God Save the Queen when he was capped. He
> claimed he played for England because he lived there and they asked
> him and he wanted to play at the highest level. I read some of his
> autobiography a while back, he's a staunch socialist and
> anti-monarchist, considers himself a citizen of the world so he
> probably wouldn't be too pleased with being referred to as Welsh,
> English or British.

He also spent an entire Lions tour pissed on Marlborough Pinot and stoned on
the local, UV enhanced dope.

He stood up as England captain in SA and lambasted his hosts for the
appalling racism to which Steve Ojomoh had been subjected, causing Louis
Luyt to flounce out in disgust.

My man.

Not surprising that there was an bad reaction in Britain when he was painted
black and forced to play soccer for England.

JC

Jon Chapman

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 8:51:05 PM12/13/00

to

"Marc O'Brien" <mlob...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:9175g8$uea$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

>
> > In article <UqqZ5.14638$xW4.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> > "Jon Chapman" <jcha...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >Anyway, back to your conversation with Marc -
> > the fact that you alone take him seriously speaks volumes.
> >
> >JC
>
> Do you suppose Mees has gone mental?

No, but too much dope-smoking, tulip-sniffing and dyke-plugging has to have
an effect.

JC

Jon Chapman

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 8:58:18 PM12/13/00

to

"Marc O'Brien" <mlob...@my-deja.com> wrote in message

news:9172k4$sbi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <UqqZ5.14638$xW4.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,

> I got the impression Mees was speculating in a probing fashion. While
> reading his post I could hear a soft intelligent dutch accent thinking
> out aloud about a passing thought.

Yes. You would. Your intelligence is just as soft. But you'll get along
famously with Mees, he's a four year history of posting innaccurate and
offensive pap on the subject of the British and in particular "the English",
whatever they are. Frustratingly, he is an intelligent and interesting
poster on just about every other subject. He won't reply to thsi, because he
says its off topic, of course - whereas his own "idle speculation" on
British racism is bang on topic as we all know.

> I wonder what it was you envisioned while reading that post, or do you
> just not tollerate the fact that people sometimes have thoughts, ask
> idle question innocently and even sometimes have opinions?

This may be superficial, but aren't all South Africans biggoted, racist
nazis who like nothing better than to beat and maim their black slaves for a
laugh?

If I were dim enough to beleive this and say so just once - let alone
ad-bleeding-nauseum as Mees does - do you think that the odd South African
might just want to take issue?

JC

NZRebel

unread,

Dec 13, 2000, 11:44:18 PM12/13/00

to

Mark Jamnik wrote in blissful ignorance:

>> OK - history lesson time. I was referring to John Hinckley, the chap who
>put
>> a couple of slugs in Ronnie Reagan - "Hinckley had developed an obsession
>> with the actress Jodie Foster after seeing her in the movie "Taxi Driver."
>> Hinckley also sympathized with the role in the movie played by Robert De
>> Niro, in which De Niro's character attempted to assassinate a U.S.
>Senator.
>> Apparently Hinckley thought Ms. Foster would be impressed if he
>assassinated
>> President Reagan." (from
>> http://www.umi.com/hp/Support/K12/GreatEvents/Reagan.html if you want to
>> know more)
>>
>> I hate it when you have to explain a joke

>Mark

You're not giving a history lesson, Mark, you're feeding a troll, as
Refrigerator Magnet's reply to your post clearly illustrates

>You got me curious now, I'll have to go hire that movie. Reagan hey? Must be
>an old movie. Ironic that the article at that link you include says Reagans
>political stability actually improved as a result, just the sought of thing
>he needed.
>
>I'm sure Jodi (not Jody or Jodie) was impressed, just not as Hinckley
>expected.
>
>What about rugby math streakers ? I can never understand why they do that ?
>
>Marc
>
>

See what I mean? Wasted effort on your part.

Keegan

unread,

Dec 14, 2000, 1:12:09 PM12/14/00

to

<louise....@pop.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3A3897A3...@pop.ntlworld.com...

Ah, not such a shallow reader after all :-)

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 14, 2000, 1:16:10 PM12/14/00

to

<louise....@pop.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3A3897C6...@pop.ntlworld.com...

Oops, first time round I read "of black woman" not "off black woman" .

Okay, to answer the question, well that's easy, I have never experienced any
form of attraction to black woman what so ever :-)

Next you're going to say "fortunately for them..."

Marc

MILDENIS

unread,

Dec 14, 2000, 7:01:04 PM12/14/00

to

Marc,
I got steamed when some posters resorted to ad hominems about my post about
British/English/Questionable origin journalists, so I will try to be simple,
non-offensive and stick to the point.

Hinckley shot Reagan.
Reagan was President.
Not still an actor (at least officially).
The movie was made after Reagan left Hollywood.
De Niro was in the movie. Not Reagan. I think (but not sure) that Reagan was
already President when the movie was made.

Are you putting us on or are you for real? (sincere question)

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 15, 2000, 3:28:14 AM12/15/00

to

"MILDENIS" <mild...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001214190104...@ng-me1.aol.com...
> Marc,

>
> Are you putting us on or are you for real? (sincere question)

In what context buddy :-)

louise....@pop.ntlworld.com

unread,

Dec 15, 2000, 6:18:19 AM12/15/00

to

How can I now that you've pre-empted me!

But no, I'd rather say how very unfortunate for you.

Kev

Andy Mulhearn

unread,

Dec 15, 2000, 12:01:09 PM12/15/00

to

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 15:14:38 GMT, Marc O'Brien <mlob...@email.com>
wrote:

>If you think about it a bit(the quoted sentence above) it may make
>sense to you. The idea of a sentance like that is that it makes the
>client think a little as opposed to skimming over wiothout really
>apreciating the value of such an aproach.

Err, no. The sentence is so full of buzz and "cliche" words it makes
you sound a complete arse. Or was that the intention?

Andy Mulhearn

unread,

Dec 15, 2000, 12:01:20 PM12/15/00

to

The commentating isn't too bad, those dreadful analysis sessions he
and Dewi (sp?) Morris do on the Rugby Club are far worse.

Andy

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 16, 2000, 2:04:09 PM12/16/00

to

"Andy Mulhearn" <unxm...@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message

news:huhk3tsheghdo8hrr...@4ax.com...

buzz ?

Where're the cliche's ?

Andy Mulhearn

unread,

Dec 16, 2000, 5:41:36 PM12/16/00

to

Now I know you're being stupid. A clause like "definitive analysis
scenario to be developed" smacks of a writer who is trying to pretend
his command of the language is better than it is.

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 17, 2000, 1:31:31 AM12/17/00

to

"Andy Mulhearn" <unxm...@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message

news:3qrn3tge89ukuvlsl...@4ax.com...

On the other hand, I may be the guy who was not accepted to study analytical
physics at WITS Varsity because while I may have got distinctions in Math
and Physics (science) I hardly passed English language even on the easy
grade. If I do read I read about physics, Scientific American, New Scientist
and books on fluid flow and thermodynamics and process substance
thermophysics. So perhaps it's just a matter of me being illiterate when it
comes to ordinary speak since the only language skills I have come from
physics literature.

People who know me take the Mickey, every time I open my mouth I get told
something like "thought you were about to throw in a math formula with that
mini thesis..."

So yes, my command of the language has always been poor and always will be
unfortunately.

But I think it sounds like I should go back to my website and make a better
effort.

Marc

Marc O'Brien

unread,

Dec 17, 2000, 1:32:12 AM12/17/00

to

"Garjones" <garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:jgkn3t8hpbdm3m194...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:04:09 -0000, "Marc O'Brien"
> <mlob...@fridgetech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >

> No apostrophe. Anyway the burning question is what has this got to do
> with AJ Venter being an idiot:o)

As much as the word idiot has anything to do with the guy :-)

Marc

John Hill

unread,

Dec 17, 2000, 6:43:10 AM12/17/00

to

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 08:51:48 -0000, "Grant Baudin" <gba...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>That's the point -you have no proof that the intention was to rake
>Delaglio's face with cause to seriously injure him. You just assume that he
>is a mindless SA'n "thug" and he deserves to be punished.The only thing you
>can go on is the evidence - and there isn't much evidence of raking on
>Delaglio's face.

He looked down and then stood on his face. That's the act of a thug.

JH

John Hill

unread,

Dec 17, 2000, 7:11:07 AM12/17/00

to

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:31:27 -0000, "Portnoy" <por...@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>There were riots in the streets of London that night.
>
>Barnes is Welsh & white

English and White. He went to school in Wales.

JH

John Hill

unread,

Dec 17, 2000, 7:11:08 AM12/17/00

to

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 11:30:46 -0000, "Portnoy" <por...@btconnect.com>
wrote:

>Stuart Barnes is Welsh (born in Newport?) and played for the Welsh Secondary
>Schools. He declined to be considered for the senior Welsh team whilst
>playing for Newport.

He was born in England according to his autobiography. Which I threw
away because it shows him to be a nauseating creep.

JH

Mike Amm

unread,

Dec 17, 2000, 11:11:25 AM12/17/00

to

"John Hill" <jo...@recruitcrm.co.uk> wrote in message
news:x6U8Oqbkn4t0KK...@4ax.com...

Well according to the local grapevine, AJ said he was simply giving
Dallaglio a warning by prodding his face with the boot.

The fact that there was no damage to the gentleman's features suggests
at least a possibility of the local grapevine being right. That the
Citing Commissioner elected to take no action, endorses this view.

Steve Parrett

unread,

Dec 17, 2000, 9:43:59 AM12/17/00

to

John Hill <jo...@recruitcrm.co.uk> wrote in message

news:FKs8OinUNLHlI9...@4ax.com...

Hoorah!

We agree - somebody bought it for me for Christmas and what I thought was
going to be an entertaining read turned out to a load of pseudo-intellectual
self-serving whining, clap-trap.

IMHO of course.

Regards

Steve

Portnoy

unread,

Dec 17, 2000, 11:13:15 AM12/17/00

to

"Steve Parrett" <steve....@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:91ijn0$ppn$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...

Why did Moore sue him for certain parts of the book?

Steve Parrett

unread,

Dec 17, 2000, 11:58:35 AM12/17/00

to

Right here we go, and if I get sued, I blame you Portnoy.

SB was accused by BM of impugning the honour of BM (!) I hope that shriek
isn't actionable....

Apparently it was to do with the company who were representing the financial
interests of the rugby players in the early 90's days of the England Grand
Slams. Moore was alleged to have been part of the management structure of
the representing company and not making a very good job of it. Sorry - but
the details are mind-numbingly boring and, judging from the subsequent
litigious action by Moore, totally incorrect.

As a result of Moore's legals, there is in most copies of the book an extra
sheet written by Barnes stuck opposite the contents page expressly
withdrawing all the relevant comments. It includes the words "I can only
say that I am sorry". Which makes the following comment on the flyleaf
rather ironic "If the contents offend anyone Barnes offers no apologies"

Hehehehehehe

Regards

Steve

Portnoy <por...@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:AA5%5.28159$Bh.204669@NewsReader...

John Williams

unread,

Dec 17, 2000, 4:10:24 PM12/17/00

to

On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:48:58 +0000, Garjones
<garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:11:25 -0000, "Mike Amm" <mike...@iafrica.com>
>wrote:

>>Well according to the local grapevine, AJ said he was simply giving
>>Dallaglio a warning by prodding his face with the boot.

>>The fact that there was no damage to the gentleman's features suggests
>>at least a possibility of the local grapevine being right. That the
>>Citing Commissioner elected to take no action, endorses this view.

>Exactly, Dillyos all right and made no mention of it, who cares? Every
>bloody match we're getting this rubbish rolling on for weeks. The game
>was over two weeks ago and truth be told I haven't seen one dirty
>international match this year.

Not having seen the incident I can't comment directly on it. However,
it does seem a high risk strategy to put your foot near or on
someone's face. High risk of the ref misinterpreting the event
resulting in a sending off, and a significant danger of a loss of
balance resulting in more than gentle contact between boot and face.

The last Pom sent off was I believe Grewcock v NZ back in 97, for what
amounted to little more than a gentle poke to the head according to my
memory. Grewcock had to go and did.

The whole idea that anything goes if no damage is done, but if exactly
the same behaviour injures a player, the offender should get a hefty
ban is just too simplistic for me. It needs some discussion and
clarification by the powers that be, in my view.
--

All the best,
John Williams.

louise....@pop.ntlworld.com

unread,

Dec 18, 2000, 4:18:19 AM12/18/00

to

I agree. It is the intention that should be addressed first and
foremost, regardless of the damage done. Which, ofcourse, is not always
an easy thing to judge, but not impossible. There will always be
mistakes.

The problem is with the administrators of the game. If they really want
to clean up the game, and this should also include proffesrtional fouls
imo, then they have to get ruthless.

Every time aplayer commits a prof foul, give him 10. Do it twice send
them off. I imagine this will lead to some games where there are quite a
few players in the bin. But evebntually such consistency will
undoubtedly pay off. You only have to look at the transfromation in
soccer when refs got tough on dirty play or even tackles from behind
(especially in euro/world comps) to see that it can work.

Kev

John Williams

unread,

Dec 18, 2000, 3:14:33 PM12/18/00

to

On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:18:19 +0100, louise....@pop.ntlworld.com
wrote:

>John Williams wrote:

Indeed there will be mistakes. Video evidence is not always as clear
as some might think on events, and there have been a number of cases
where video was useless for evidence - the Yates biting incident and
the Nones (?) case being two relatively recent ones.

>The problem is with the administrators of the game. If they really want
>to clean up the game, and this should also include proffesrtional fouls
>imo, then they have to get ruthless.

That is one part of it. On the other hand, some refs are inevitably
more capable than others of controlling a bad-tempered game.

>Every time aplayer commits a prof foul, give him 10. Do it twice send
>them off.

Lots of people agree with this view Kev, and I sympathise with it.
Certainly there has been a reduction in professional fouls through the
yellow card system, but there is some leeway for refs in Britain which
isn't available in the S12 by all accounts, with its list of
compulsory yellow card offences.

>I imagine this will lead to some games where there are quite a
>few players in the bin. But evebntually such consistency will
>undoubtedly pay off. You only have to look at the transfromation in
>soccer when refs got tough on dirty play or even tackles from behind
>(especially in euro/world comps) to see that it can work.

I'm not sure, but I think I agree with you.

The other aspect is regarding citing.

The idea that the punishment should be related to the severity of the
injury/loss of salary/recovery time necessary for the injured player
seems altogether too Biblical for me.

I'd be interested in hearing what people consider the most dangerous
foul play.

Knees in the back, no attempt to grasp the opponent in the tackle,
fingers in the face, tackling a player off the ground and feet
stomping near the head would be my worst five. All of which could be
accidental, but often aren't.

Maybe my biggest beef is the need to keep players on their feet when
they reach the tackle situation, too often completely ignored by refs,
as that seems to be the most common cause of serious injury outside
the scrum (Glyn Jones, Andy Blyth etc). Hopefully someone can confirm
or disprove that.

John Williams

unread,

Dec 18, 2000, 7:39:28 PM12/18/00

to

On Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:09:01 +0000, Garjones
<garj...@spamlessntlworld.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:14:33 +0000, John Williams
><john.w...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:

>>Maybe my biggest beef is the need to keep players on their feet when
>>they reach the tackle situation, too often completely ignored by refs,
>>as that seems to be the most common cause of serious injury outside
>>the scrum (Glyn Jones, Andy Blyth etc). Hopefully someone can confirm
>>or disprove that.

>Gwyn Jones, John!

Oops, wish I could say it was a typo, but it wasn't.

>It was commented on that the reason Gwyn was
>paralysed (short term of course he can walk pretty well now) was the
>law regarding staying on your feet. There was no foul play involved,
>he stayed on his feet, his own players came in from behind and he fell
>awkwardly.

From what I remember it was a pile-up caused as much by the acceptance
that players are allowed to lose their feet, with someone getting
buried under half a pack without anything illegal happening. Probably
a NH problem from what I've seen of SH referees (usually the best ones
of course).

Likewise the Blyth incident by all accounts. He is struggling at the
moment. There was an article on him in the Independent recently - it
should be on-line still for anyone interested.

>You could argue it was caused by the law as it stands or just bad
>luck, maybe the respective unions need to keep a check on it. If the
>staying on your feet law does cause serious spinal injuries then it
>will have to be scrapped whatever the consequences to the game.

I take your point, though it's the diving in which gets me most
concerned. I don't know if the stats back this up or not.

>Gwyn was lucky in way, he's a clever guy, a qualified doctor with 10 A
>grades at GCSE and 3 A grades at a A level and he had the medical
>resources to make sure that he could walk again. He still has a full
>life ahead of him, I wonder how Max Brito is getting along in
>comparison.

Absolutely :-(.

rob...@bestweb.net

unread,

Dec 18, 2000, 10:47:21 PM12/18/00

to

On 2000-12-18 john.w...@dial.pipex.com said in part:

>I'd be interested in hearing what people consider the most dangerous
>foul play.

>Knees in the back, no attempt to grasp the opponent in the tackle,
>fingers in the face, tackling a player off the ground and feet
>stomping near the head would be my worst five. All of which could be
>accidental, but often aren't.

Intentional collapse of set scrum (collapse of ruck or maul not as bad),
clothesline/scragging/Nelson hold (neck tackle), raking on or near head with
cleats, leg whipping (vigorous high tripping/hacking over), fingers in face,
undercutting a lifted player or player's support in lineout.

Robert in the Bronx
now upgraded to 486

Wilna White

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Dec 19, 2000, 2:15:27 AM12/19/00

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In article <dTA%5.103$VO6....@monger.newsread.com>, rob...@bestweb.net
writes

Rob, I'm no expert on the high tackle/neck tackle problem; but it seems
to me there are shades here - I've seen a high tackle where the tackler
is taking pains to ensure his body force is moving in the same direction
as the tacklee; where the arm is around the neck but across the body;
and there seems a lot less danger in this than in the whiplash situation
where the tacklers' body force is moving in the opposite direction to
that of the tacklee. What is the experience / feeling of those who have
been involved in such situations here?
--
Wilna White

Mike Amm

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Dec 19, 2000, 7:34:11 AM12/19/00

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"John Williams" <john.w...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:feps3ts3f3bapptfl...@4ax.com...

>
> Maybe my biggest beef is the need to keep players on their feet when
> they reach the tackle situation, too often completely ignored by refs,
> as that seems to be the most common cause of serious injury outside
> the scrum (Glyn Jones, Andy Blyth etc). Hopefully someone can confirm
> or disprove that.

Well, we don't have certified stats to back it up but from my own
observations, I'd have to agree with you. There seem to be a lot more
bleeding head injuries in games where the ref turns a blind eye to
players diving in headlong at tackle.

Players' heads and feet need to be kept well apart. Even a minor head
nick tends to bleed profusely. They are often not nearly as bad as they
look but horrific close-ups of blood spurting all over a player's face,
are not the greatest confidence builders for the mums of future stars.