Kennedy Tsimba does it again - IRB wake up and let him play for SA !!!
Ironside
possibly one of the best flyhalves in World Rugby can't even get a look-in
for the South African team all because of a IRB rulling.
I know his name has been mentioned here before by Kennedy Tsimba is simply
in a league of his how. The guy is a mecurial force - a player with seldom
seen genius ! This man has got it all and I have no doubt in my mind that
if he played international rugby for a team like South Africa he would go on
to become one of the greatest players in the world !
And I'm not singing his praises after one season of good performances
either.
Unlike a Brent Russel, Butch James or an Andre Pretorius who "burst onto the
scene" and made a name for themselves through one good season, Kennedy
Tsimba has been picking up accolades and playing at the highest level for
about the past 3 years now. They guy has the highest average conversion rate
(i think something in the region of 93%) and is just phenomenal in releasing
his outside backs.
But what's really impressive is that I have NEVER SEEN A PLAYER with so much
time to execute his plays. The guy is simply an ice man...completely under
control at all time. Calm and collected always. He sees things happening 6
seconds before anyone else.
No disrespect to the young boys like Russel and Pretorius (and for that
matter Butch), but if I where Bok coach and I had the option of picking
Tsimba - he would be the first name I'd put down on my team sheet.
MAN OF THE MATCH:
Has any player in the history of SA rugby EVER won so many man of the match
awards ??? It's seems that just about every game he plays in - win or lose -
he walks away with the man of the match award.
Speed, vision, good foot work, good boot, then man has it all....
For the benifit of non-South Africans who have perhaps never seen him play -
I can say that he has the qualities of Carlos Spencer (96-97/98) combined
with Johny Wilkonson.
Absolutely amazing !
Yesterday he scored 3 tries, a drop kick and 7 conversions. Which in case
you didn't know is something he regularly does against all opposition. It
hardly raises an eyebrow these days...
What a pitty the IRB wont let him play for South Africa because he's played
3 games for Zimbabwe. One would think they could make an exception to the
rule for the sake of world rugby...
Because I honestly believe that it's not only South Africa that is losing
out, but that the world is being deprived of watching one of the greatest
rugby talents to walk the earth....
And to my knowledge the ZRFU (Zimbabwe Rugby Football Union) was absolved
about 3 or 4 years ago. They no longer compete on the international
stage.... Surely therefore it's silly to enfore this law ?
Cheers
Alan Luchetti
"Ironside" <dont...@dontspam.com> wrote ...
Ferdi has said much the same. I'd love to see this guy play for SA.
Less controversially, surely, I'd like to see him in S12 next year..
I'd also like ex-ABs or future ABs who otherwise qualify for other
Oceania neighbours to be able to play for them.
Ace of Spades
played
> 3 games for Zimbabwe. One would think they could make an exception to the
> rule for the sake of world rugby...
>
Interesting posting - I was under the impression that a player could
represent another country after so many years.
Tiaan Strauss was one who did - have the rules changed recently ?
Out of curiousity can anyone share with us what the current player
eligibility rules actually is ?
> Because I honestly believe that it's not only South Africa that is losing
> out, but that the world is being deprived of watching one of the greatest
> rugby talents to walk the earth....
>
That is a pity by the sounds of things.
> And to my knowledge the ZRFU (Zimbabwe Rugby Football Union) was absolved
> about 3 or 4 years ago. They no longer compete on the international
> stage.... Surely therefore it's silly to enfore this law ?
>
Yeah it does seem silly if this is true and could be a strong case for an
appeal with IRB in the light of what is currently happening
in Zimbabwe.
PS I heard a rumour that President Mugabe turned all the Rugby fields in Zim
into subsistence farms and gave Kennedy
strict instructions that he if he ever plays for SA against the AB's that he
expects him to apprehend the AB no 15
and take his farm in NZ. The modus operandi behind this is to validate the
new Zim National anthem "Old Macdonald had a farm"
Mike Amm
> Unlike a Brent Russel, Butch James or an Andre Pretorius who "burst
> onto the scene" and made a name for themselves through one good
> season, Kennedy Tsimba has been picking up accolades and playing at
> the highest level for about the past 3 years now. They guy has the
> highest average conversion rate (i think something in the region of
> 93%) and is just phenomenal in releasing his outside backs.
>
> But what's really impressive is that I have NEVER SEEN A PLAYER with
> so much time to execute his plays. The guy is simply an ice
> man...completely under control at all time. Calm and collected
> always. He sees things happening 6 seconds before anyone else.
>
> No disrespect to the young boys like Russel and Pretorius (and for
> that matter Butch), but if I where Bok coach and I had the option of
> picking Tsimba - he would be the first name I'd put down on my team
> sheet.
Kenny Tsimba is a standout player in both VC and CC but to date has yet to
make any impression in the Top 8 of Currie Cup, where he becomes almost
invisible. Last year Free State were obliged to drag Kenny a couple of
times against Big Gun CC combo's, where defences are a lot tighter.
Kenny had a great game against Griquas yesterday and hopefully this will
be his year to crack the bigtime, but it's hardly realistic to rate him
with players like Pretorius and Russell yet. If he can turn in as strong a
performance against WP or the Sharks, as he did yesterday, then it would
be time to re-assess, but I wouldn't bet my shirt on it happening. A
season of Super 12 could be the making of Tsimba.
Justin Mansfield
news:3d689b3b$0$18...@hades.is.co.za...
Tough shit. If he is a Zimmy national then why would he play for SA? Get
your own players. What if Brian O'Driscoll emigrated to SA this year? Would
you be moaning that the IRB should let him play for SA? Now if you could get
hold of Mr Oppenheimer and get him and De Beers to fund it I'm sure you
could get the cream of world rugby playing in SA and I'm sure that you'd be
whinging that they couldn't pull on Bok jerseys. Don't you think that SA
have taken enough Zimmy, Namibian and Zambian qualified players recently?
The rest of the rugby world has to abide by IRB regulations, so SA does too.
Justin
MILDENIS
>have taken enough Zimmy, Namibian and Zambian qualified players recently?
Do Mehrtens and Gregan qualify, too?
Twit.
Luke
When did they play for another country?
MILDENIS
>
So what? They were born in Zambia. Tiaan Strauss played for Australia and South
Africa, as you know.
So the rules keep changing.
That is my point: It doesn't obviously matter- born, went to school, played
for..it's whatever the IRB decides each meeting.
My point was only to let Justin know he is a twit.
André Maritz
Yes, Tsimba is brilliant and I would love to see him behind a stronger pack.
dougie137
"André Maritz" <the...@ananzi.co.za> wrote in message
news:e30a2c3f.02082...@posting.google.com...
Richard Whelan
1991 world cup, had cracking tournaments and then miraculously became AB's.
It isn't Kennedy's fault his president is a grade 1 dick!! Wake up and
smell the coffee IRB !!!!!!
Ironside <dont...@dontspam.com> wrote in message
news:3d689b3b$0$18...@hades.is.co.za...
Myk Cameron
wrote:
<snip>
>
>And to my knowledge the ZRFU (Zimbabwe Rugby Football Union) was absolved
>about 3 or 4 years ago. They no longer compete on the international
>stage....
Zimbabwe has played 12 rugby internationals in the last 3 years.
Hardly the act of a team that no longer competes on the international
stage:
17/06/00 South Africa U-23 64 Zimbabwe 12 Pretoria
01/07/00 Zimbabwe 26 Namibia 31 Harare
15/07/00 Zimbabwe 10 South Africa U-23 51 Harare
22/07/00 Namibia 41 Zimbabwe 34 Windhoek
02/06/01 Zimbabwe 20 South Africa U-23 71 Bulawayo
23/06/01 South Africa U-23 78 Zimbabwe 29 Durban
07/07/01 Zimbabwe 27 Namibia 26 Bulawayo
14/07/01 Namibia 19 Zimbabwe 15 Windhoek
20/04/02 Zimbabwe A 84 Zambia 10
18/05/02 Zimbabwe 43 Uganda 0 Harare
02/06/02 Madagascar 3 Zimbabwe 52 Antananarivo
29/06/02 Zimbabwe 30 Namibia 42 Bulawayo
>Surely therefore it's silly to enfore this law ?
Why doesn't he just continue to play for Zimbabwe?
Myk
Glenn Condell
Alan Luchetti wrote:
>
>
> Ferdi has said much the same. I'd love to see this guy play for SA.
> Less controversially, surely, I'd like to see him in S12 next year..
Saw him the other week on Fox - he was impressive on attack, lovely passing
- both timing and length spot on. That sort of depth-based backplay is not
popular at Test level right now; might be hard for him to adjust to
advantage line play. Not sure about his defence either - a bit fragile at
times.. a bit of a Naas perhaps?
They were playing on a ground the colour of sandstone - it looked painful.
Glenn
Ace of Spades
"dougie137" <doug...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4wba9.3751$JH6....@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net...
Ace of Spades
> Namibian and Zambian qualified players recently?
Some posters can produce some real pearlers and this has to be up there with
them. (LOL)
On this note, now that you have commited yourself to you make such a bold
statement please name all the Namibian, Zimbabwean and Zambian players who
we have supposedly "stolen" recently - PS please don't use double spacing to
make the list appear long and Orange peelers don't count. (FYI The only
current Zambian by birth in playing major world rugby is probably George
Gregan and he is with Oz)
> The rest of the rugby world has to abide by IRB
> regulations, so SA does too.
Some people can make a tosser out of themselves in a post but you have the
knack to achieve this multiple times in one go
Almost every other nation has done this. If anything SA has been one of the
few teams not to pull in talent from "elsewhere" so going on your logic it
seems then that we are the only nation who *has* abided by these rules.
Examples (only a few players of a handful or the tip of the Iceberg)
Frank Bunce (NZ), Tiaan Strauss (Oz), Leslie Bros (Scotland), Mike Catt
(England), Pierre De Villiers (France), Dominguez (Italy), Howarth (Wales),
SA loose forward for Ireland (forgotten his name), Jamie Joseph (Japan), a
few expats playing for the the USA, dunno about Canada.
So it seems everyone else is already guilty and what's good for the goose is
good for the gander.
Besides if you understood the situation in Zimbabwe it is also about
allowing someone exposure to International sport. Australia and England did
not hesitate to utilise our talented cricketers during the isolation years
so there we go....................................
"Justin Mansfield" <REMOVEjusti...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:akakfn$1gvk5o$1...@ID-143414.news.dfncis.de...
Ace of Spades
Joseph, Graham Bachop, Shane Howarth, Tiaan Strauss and a few others
"Luke" <lhor...@SPAMbigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:cD5a9.8578$MC2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Justin Mansfield
> > Don't you think that SA have taken enough Zimmy,
> > Namibian and Zambian qualified players recently?
>
> Some posters can produce some real pearlers and this has to be up there
with
> them. (LOL)
>
> On this note, now that you have commited yourself to you make such a bold
> statement please name all the Namibian, Zimbabwean and Zambian players who
> we have supposedly "stolen" recently - PS please don't use double spacing
to
> make the list appear long and Orange peelers don't count.
I can't name that many off the top of my head, but going on what the SA
commentators say during games there are plenty. Zimbabweans would have a
better idea than SAns.
Gary Pagel? And wasn't Teichman Zimbabwean until he went to school in SA?
> (FYI The only current Zambian by birth in playing major world rugby is
probably George
> Gregan and he is with Oz)
Strange, Corne Krige was born in the same hospital in Lusaka.
> > The rest of the rugby world has to abide by IRB
> > regulations, so SA does too.
>
> Some people can make a tosser out of themselves in a post but you have
the
> knack to achieve this multiple times in one go
By daring to have an opinion that doesn't match yours?
> Almost every other nation has done this. If anything SA has been one of
the
> few teams not to pull in talent from "elsewhere" so going on your logic it
> seems then that we are the only nation who *has* abided by these rules.
You're joking.
> Examples (only a few players of a handful or the tip of the Iceberg)
>
> Frank Bunce (NZ), Tiaan Strauss (Oz), Leslie Bros (Scotland), Mike Catt
> (England), Pierre De Villiers (France), Dominguez (Italy), Howarth
(Wales),
> SA loose forward for Ireland (forgotten his name), Jamie Joseph (Japan), a
> few expats playing for the the USA, dunno about Canada.
OK. Deep breath now, try to concentrate. I know it is a difficult concept,
but try to hang in there. The Leslies and Catt had never played for any
other country before Scotland and England respectively so even though adding
their name to your post to make it look longer.
Now the others had played for countries previously, but when they switched
allegiances they did so under the rules that applied at the time. Those
rules have now been changed to prevent this country hopping that you are so
uptight about, yet you want them to be ignored in this one case that, wow,
benefits South Africa.
> So it seems everyone else is already guilty and what's good for the goose
is
> good for the gander.
No, they changed the rules.
> Besides if you understood the situation in Zimbabwe it is also about
> allowing someone exposure to International sport.
What the hell are you on about? Zimababwe play internationals.
> Australia and England did not hesitate to utilise our talented cricketers
during the isolation years
> so there we go....................................
God knows where you go, if you're trying to dredge up support for your
argument from cricket in the apartheid years. Now cricket has an even more
stringent qualification policy than rugby. The residential qualification is
7 years as opposed to rugby's 3.
Justin
Justin Mansfield
news:20020825095249...@mb-ff.aol.com...
> >Don't you think that SA
> >have taken enough Zimmy, Namibian and Zambian qualified players recently?
>
> Do Mehrtens and Gregan qualify, too?
No, they could have qualified, but have chosen NZ and Oz.
> Twit.
Appropriate signature.
Mike Thompson
> (FYI The only
> current Zambian by birth in playing major world rugby is probably George
> Gregan and he is with Oz)
>
Corné Krige was born in the same hospital as George Gregan.
-Mike.
Ace of Spades
I was born in Zambia too but to SA parents and lived in SA for most of my
life. Like Krige, Teichman and the others
I am an SA citizen have an SA passport so according to IRB rules I would
qualify for South Africa if I were a player so
your argument of us stealing players from other countries is a load of
bollocks.
For example Serge Blanco was born in Paraguay and had a french mother and
went back to France with his Mum in his late teens after his dad died - he
is a French citizen who learnt his rugby in France and is France's prodidgy
rugby son as far as I am concerned depite the fact that Paraguay plays Rugby
too.
So let me rephrase the question then. Please list the players of other
citizenship that we have supposedly "stolen" that are not eligible
to play for SA in accordance to the current IRB rules. i.e. If you are
prepared to make sweeping statements then be prepared to put your
money where your mouth is.
> You're joking.
>
Absolutely not - historically we have had less "imports" playing for us than
all the other nations and I have listed just a few of these
> OK. Deep breath now, try to concentrate. I know it is a difficult concept,
> but try to hang in there. The Leslies and Catt had never played for any
> other country before Scotland and England respectively so even though
adding
> their name to your post to make it look longer.
Your sweeping statements continue to amaze me. I dunno about the Leslies but
Mike Catt played for South Africa Schools and I also think U21, so did
represent his native country in Rugby Union on a national level. I bet the
Leslie's may had some sort of national representation being the son's of
Andy but not necessarily the AB's.
>
> Now the others had played for countries previously, but when they switched
> allegiances they did so under the rules that applied at the time. Those
> rules have now been changed to prevent this country hopping that you are
so
> uptight about, yet you want them to be ignored in this one case that, wow,
> benefits South Africa.
I am not uptight about Tsimba not playing - as a matter of fact I don't give
a toss to be honest.
But I *am* uptight with your sweeping statements and general ignorance. Like
many others you make
bold statements and them seem have nothing to back them up or come out with
answers based weak
assumptions when asked to produce tangible facts - i.e. You obviously opened
your gob without doing
any homework first.
If you read the threads concerning this topics you'll see that that all I
asked for was:
"Out of curiousity can anyone share with us what the current player
eligibility rules actually is ?"
If anyone is uptight it is you with your frothing troll that has seems to
have not substance behind it.
I am sure you would get pissed off if a casual conversation about a
Polynesian Island players ability turned into a troll
with me claiming that NZ or Aussie break the rules with many players when in
fact they are the likes of Lomu, Kefu and Smith and we
all know very well that they are totally Kiwis and Aussie citizens
respectfully and those countries have
done damn well to produce such great players.
If you can prove me wrong then I am willing to apologise but I cannot see
any players that we have "nicked"
to be honest and it is unfair to make such insinuations if you don't have
accurate information to back this up.
Justin Mansfield
> > Strange, Corne Krige was born in the same hospital in Lusaka.
>
> I was born in Zambia too but to SA parents and lived in SA for most of my
life.
But that doesn't make you last statement correct.
> Like Krige, Teichman and the others I am an SA citizen have an SA passport
so according to IRB rules I would
> qualify for South Africa if I were a player so your argument of us
stealing players from other countries is a load of
> bollocks.
Do you actually read what people write or do you just jump in with your eyes
closed? Teichman is a Zimmy boy who qualified for SA as well. By selecting
him for SA you prevented him from representing Zimbabwe.
> So let me rephrase the question then. Please list the players of other
> citizenship that we have supposedly "stolen" that are not eligible
> to play for SA in accordance to the current IRB rules. i.e. If you are
> prepared to make sweeping statements then be prepared to put your
> money where your mouth is.
Nobody can play international rugby is they are not eligible under IRB
rules, that is the point. Ironside wants the IRB to ignore the rules when it
comes to SA and Tsimba.
> > OK. Deep breath now, try to concentrate. I know it is a difficult
concept,
> > but try to hang in there. The Leslies and Catt had never played for any
> > other country before Scotland and England respectively so even though
> adding
> > their name to your post to make it look longer.
>
> Your sweeping statements continue to amaze me. I dunno about the Leslies
but
> Mike Catt played for South Africa Schools and I also think U21, so did
> represent his native country in Rugby Union on a national level. I bet the
> Leslie's may had some sort of national representation being the son's of
> Andy but not necessarily the AB's.
Whomever taught you the phrase "sweeping statement" deserves a slow, painful
death. So now you're going to include Schools and U21 in IRB qualification
even though the IRB do not? Here's a point for your next discussion, try to
stay on the topic rather than jump around like Skippy on speed.
> > Now the others had played for countries previously, but when they
switched
> > allegiances they did so under the rules that applied at the time. Those
> > rules have now been changed to prevent this country hopping that you are
> so
> > uptight about, yet you want them to be ignored in this one case that,
wow,
> > benefits South Africa.
>
> I am not uptight about Tsimba not playing - as a matter of fact I don't
give
> a toss to be honest.
> But I *am* uptight with your sweeping statements and general ignorance.
Like
> many others you make
> bold statements and them seem have nothing to back them up or come out
with
> answers based weak
> assumptions when asked to produce tangible facts - i.e. You obviously
opened
> your gob without doing
> any homework first.
Whereas you lack any semblance of a balanced viewpoint. What sweeping
statements have I made that would be innacurate? Are you now going to turn
around and state that SA have never selected a player who was also qualified
for another country?
> If you read the threads concerning this topics you'll see that that all I
> asked for was:
> "Out of curiousity can anyone share with us what the current player
> eligibility rules actually is ?"
>
> If anyone is uptight it is you with your frothing troll that has seems to
> have not substance behind it.
What troll? Your attempts to swamp an argument with churning out long tracts
of trite are annoying. Ironside wants the IRB to change its regulations to
so that Tsimba can play for SA. I say "Tough shit" everybody else has to
abide by these regulations so why not SA?
> If you can prove me wrong then I am willing to apologise but I cannot see
> any players that we have "nicked" to be honest and it is unfair to make
such insinuations if you don't have
> accurate information to back this up.
Again you show yourself to be overly sensitive to anything that you see as
an insult to SA. The Boks have selected players from Zimbabwe, Namibia and
Zambia in the past you cannot argue that is untrue, and in doing so
prevented them from being selected by those countries. What the IRB rules do
is bring the recruitment of players down a grade or two as the countries try
to get players to commit to them early and lock them in. It's amazing how
many dual (or more) qualified players are rushed in to 'A' teams and then
quietly dropped afterwards.
Justin
Mike Amm
> Do you actually read what people write or do you just jump in with
> your eyes closed? Teichman is a Zimmy boy who qualified for SA as
> well. By selecting him for SA you prevented him from representing
> Zimbabwe.
No, you haven't got that right, Justin. Teich was born in Zim and spent
his early childhood near Gweru where his old man farmed. When Gary was 12
years old, the family bought a farm in Natal and moved here permanently.
He was educated (as was Skinstad - born Zambia) at Hilton College, one of
Natal's top rugby schools. You can check out these facts in Teich's book,
titled ''For the Record'' ISBN 1-8642-098-1
There are so many families who move between Zim, Zambia and Natal in
particular, it's difficult to keep track. Those born in Zim or Zam always
retain some degree of emotional attachment for their place of birth. Those
born in SA but raised in Zim, obviously have a stronger attachment to Zim.
Guys like Adrian Garvey and Kenny Tsimba who were raised and learnt their
rugby in Zim to earn their national colours, obviously have a stronger
loyalty than others, but to say the SA deprived these countries of players
is barely a half-truth.
> Again you show yourself to be overly sensitive to anything that you
> see as an insult to SA. The Boks have selected players from Zimbabwe,
> Namibia and Zambia in the past you cannot argue that is untrue, and
> in doing so prevented them from being selected by those countries.
Justin that may be true but both Zimbabwe and Namibia (derived from South
West Africa, a UN-mandated territory to SA since WW1) have very close
traditional links with SA. To give an idea of just how close, half of my
family are Zims, half SAs. Political circumstances may have changed but
family ties remain close as ever.
Both SWA and Rhodesia played in the SA Currie Cup. The Springboks always
were their national team. They would still be but for the politicians.
Ironside
raise there level of play and overall be good for the world game.
Does anyone know how it works in soccer ? Does Fifa allow players to switch
countries ?
"Alan Luchetti" <luch...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ie1a9.119$N5.1...@nasal.pacific.net.au...
Ironside
"Mike Amm" <mike...@iafrica.com> wrote in message
news:3d68c...@news1.mweb.co.za...
>
> Kenny Tsimba is a standout player in both VC and CC but to date has yet to
> make any impression in the Top 8 of Currie Cup, where he becomes almost
> invisible. Last year Free State were obliged to drag Kenny a couple of
> times against Big Gun CC combo's, where defences are a lot tighter.
>
> Kenny had a great game against Griquas yesterday and hopefully this will
> be his year to crack the bigtime, but it's hardly realistic to rate him
> with players like Pretorius and Russell yet. If he can turn in as strong a
> performance against WP or the Sharks, as he did yesterday, then it would
> be time to re-assess, but I wouldn't bet my shirt on it happening. A
> season of Super 12 could be the making of Tsimba.
>
Mike I dont think it's fair to say that he
> " has yet to make any impression in the Top 8 of Currie Cup, where he
becomes almost
> invisible. "
I watched a few of the games he played in towards the end of last year's
Currie Cup. Notably against WP at Newlands he no longer took charge with his
normal authority, but then in that game the whole Free State side looked
pretty shit.
I think they went down by like about 50 points.....the best game Bolla
Conradie ever played..
But had you put Pretorius, Russel, Butch or even Chriss Russouw in the Free
State side on that day, and I doubt any of them would have impressed you...
Surround Tsimba with players like Krige, Van Niekerk, Barry and service from
Conradie or De Kock, and you'll see him do well under any circumstances...
> "hardly realistic to rate him
> with players like Pretorius and Russell yet"
YET ?? How much longer must we wait ? Vodacom man of the series I think 2
years in a row, more Currie Cup man-of-the-match awards in the last 3
years..... I'm not sure YET is an appropriate word...
Dont get me wrong I seriously RATE both Pretorius and Russel, but I do
believe that they will find the going much tougher when opposition teams
figure them out..... Once again the SA media and public have made these 2
overnight "super stars" and I fear they'll be shown up when teams work out
how to defend and attack them.
Both have electric speed and a good step.... Pretorius probably has more
overall skills in terms of his little chip kicks, etc. Russel is just pure
pace and step..... But these kind of players although brilliant in fast open
games dont always look so good when things are tighter.
Tsimba is a thinker, a tactictian.... I think he is more well-rounded than
both of them put together...just my opinion.
Like you say - a series of Super12 should put any doubts to rest.
My money says that by the end of this years Currie Cup Tsimba will be
claiming all the accolades for man of the series....especially now that
Rassie and Andre Venter are up front....
Watch this space...
Cheers
Mike Amm
> "Mike Amm" <mike...@iafrica.com> wrote in message
> news:3d68c...@news1.mweb.co.za...
>> with players like Pretorius and Russell yet"
>
> YET ?? How much longer must we wait ? Vodacom man of the series I
> think 2 years in a row, more Currie Cup man-of-the-match awards in
> the last 3 years..... I'm not sure YET is an appropriate word...
Well so far he's done very well in Vodacom Cup and looked good against
bottom 8 Currie Cup sides but if you check back to last year, you'll find
he was subbed off against more than one Top 8 side and warmed the bench in
another. That doesn't sound like an automatic write-in for Boks, even if
he was eligible
Maybe he will still show that he's got what it takes. I hope they give him
a go at Super 12 and we'll finally see what he's got.
> Like you say - a series of Super12 should put any doubts to rest.
>
> My money says that by the end of this years Currie Cup Tsimba will be
> claiming all the accolades for man of the series....especially now
> that Rassie and Andre Venter are up front....
Hey I don't begrudge you your opinion! I hope Tsimba makes it but for my
money, there are still a few questions that need answering.
Myk Cameron
<du...@someserver.com> wrote:
<snip>
>Absolutely not - historically we have had less "imports" playing for us than
>all the other nations and I have listed just a few of these
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<snip>
>Your sweeping statements continue to amaze me.
<snip>
Pot, kettle, black.
Myk
Justin Mansfield
> I would have no problem with ex-AB's playing for Oceania teams. It would
> raise there level of play and overall be good for the world game.
>
> Does anyone know how it works in soccer ? Does Fifa allow players to
switch
> countries ?
No, but they don't include A teams or friendlies in their qualification (I
think it has to be a competitive match) but they also take citizenship as
the residential qualifier so a country can rush through a passport (like
Poland did with the Nigerian chap who played for them in the WC) and they
can play.
Justin
Justin Mansfield
> > Do you actually read what people write or do you just jump in with
> > your eyes closed? Teichman is a Zimmy boy who qualified for SA as
> > well. By selecting him for SA you prevented him from representing
> > Zimbabwe.
>
> No, you haven't got that right, Justin. Teich was born in Zim and spent
> his early childhood near Gweru where his old man farmed. When Gary was 12
> years old, the family bought a farm in Natal and moved here permanently.
> He was educated (as was Skinstad - born Zambia) at Hilton College, one of
> Natal's top rugby schools. You can check out these facts in Teich's book,
> titled ''For the Record'' ISBN 1-8642-098-1
But that's not different from what I wrote Mike.
I have spoken to some rugby folk from Zimbabwe and they still call him a
Zimbabwe boy. I guess it depends on which side of the line you're on.
> There are so many families who move between Zim, Zambia and Natal in
> particular, it's difficult to keep track. Those born in Zim or Zam always
> retain some degree of emotional attachment for their place of birth. Those
> born in SA but raised in Zim, obviously have a stronger attachment to Zim.
>
> Guys like Adrian Garvey and Kenny Tsimba who were raised and learnt their
> rugby in Zim to earn their national colours, obviously have a stronger
> loyalty than others, but to say the SA deprived these countries of players
> is barely a half-truth.
It may not be the full truth, but the players' made their choices and those
choices precluded them from playing for Zim/Zam/whoever. I was never trying
to indite SA as a poacher, just to highlight that they had benefited from
dual qualified people in the past.
> > Again you show yourself to be overly sensitive to anything that you
> > see as an insult to SA. The Boks have selected players from Zimbabwe,
> > Namibia and Zambia in the past you cannot argue that is untrue, and
> > in doing so prevented them from being selected by those countries.
>
> Justin that may be true but both Zimbabwe and Namibia (derived from South
> West Africa, a UN-mandated territory to SA since WW1) have very close
> traditional links with SA. To give an idea of just how close, half of my
> family are Zims, half SAs. Political circumstances may have changed but
> family ties remain close as ever.
>
> Both SWA and Rhodesia played in the SA Currie Cup. The Springboks always
> were their national team. They would still be but for the politicians.
And the locals?
Justin
Mike Amm
>> Both SWA and Rhodesia played in the SA Currie Cup. The Springboks
>> always were their national team. They would still be but for the
>> politicians.
>
> And the locals?
By locals I presume you mean Namibian and Zimbabwean blacks?
Have to deal with the two countries separately. Black Namibians have no
rugby tradition at all but a group of brown folk, known as the Reoboth
Bastards, (I shit you not) are passionate about the game. The Bastards are
of mixed race origin and proud of it. They come from the same stock as
Cape Coloureds and in fact moved to Reoboth from the Northern Cape many
decades ago, after a land ownership dispute.
The Bastards and ex-pat SA's make up the Namibian national team but the
best ex-pat SA's usually manage to land CC/S12 contracts with SA teams.
Percy Montgomery was one.
Zim and Zambian blacks are very actively involved in rugby but it's true
that they have been drained of their best players, not only by SA, but
quite a number now play for NPC combo's or European clubs.
Obviously, there is some resentment from the locals but they understand
that its all about money and are more than happy if their overseas players
get back for the RWC eliminators. Doesn't always happen though.
For more detailed info on the Zim rugby scene you can email Bongai
Zamchiya in Harare bon...@allzimbabwe.com or for the latest club news from
Zambia, mail Sahani Chirwa spch...@securicor.co.zm both great guys and
really into their rugby.
MauriceV
wrote:
>Justin Mansfield wrote:
>>> Both SWA and Rhodesia played in the SA Currie Cup. The Springboks
>>> always were their national team. They would still be but for the
>>> politicians.
>>
>> And the locals?
>
>By locals I presume you mean Namibian and Zimbabwean blacks?
>
>Have to deal with the two countries separately. Black Namibians have no
>rugby tradition at all but a group of brown folk, known as the Reoboth
>Bastards, (I shit you not) are passionate about the game. The Bastards are
>of mixed race origin and proud of it. They come from the same stock as
>Cape Coloureds and in fact moved to Reoboth from the Northern Cape many
>decades ago, after a land ownership dispute.
<snip>
Actually, they're located at Rehoboth (note the 'H') and they're
called "basters" which is an Afrikaans word meaning "of mixed race" -
so you are obviously right about them being related to the Cape
Coloureds. (The word is not and has nothing to do with the English
word or concept of "bastards".) Rehoboth, in case anyone cares, is in
the south of Namibia, about halfway between the capital, Windhoek, and
the great big Hardap Dam outside Mariental. Rehoboth, in case anyone
is still reading this, is named after Isaac's well as mentioned in
Genesis, Chapter 26.
Mr. Smarty Pants
--
Maurice Valmont
Znh...@shaqv.pbz
[highlight address, press Ctrl+R]
"What if the Hokey-Pokey IS all it really is about?" -JB
Mike Amm
> Actually, they're located at Rehoboth (note the 'H') and they're
> called "basters" which is an Afrikaans word meaning "of mixed race" -
> so you are obviously right about them being related to the Cape
> Coloureds. (The word is not and has nothing to do with the English
> word or concept of "bastards".) Rehoboth, in case anyone cares, is in
> the south of Namibia, about halfway between the capital, Windhoek, and
> the great big Hardap Dam outside Mariental. Rehoboth, in case anyone
> is still reading this, is named after Isaac's well as mentioned in
> Genesis, Chapter 26.
Maurice, I'm sure your spelling of Rehoboth is correct and I certainly
didn't mean to insult the good people of Rehoboth, most of whom are good
Christian folk, like yourself.
Many years ago, I got to know one family particularly well and they were
proud to be known as ''Rehoboth Bastards.'' They spoke to me in English
and when I pointed out that a bastard was an English term for an
illegitimate child, they laughed their heads off and said that was indeed
the case. They were apparently the illegitimate grandchildren of a German
aristocrat and proud of it. Maybe times and attitudes have since changed.
By the way, I seem to remember Rehoboth as being about 120 Km/miles south
of Windhoek with a helluva lot of kudu about after dark.
Javed
> Those rules have now been changed to prevent the
> emerging nations from ever challenging the status
> of the elite Rugby nations on a level playing field.
Fixed typos.
Javed
"Myk Cameron" <a...@image.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3d696223...@news.wave.co.nz...
How much would he get paid to play for:
a) Zimbabwe
b) CC
c) SA S12 team
d) Springboks