Rear view mirrors

[Eric M. Whipkey]

R P Collings wrote:
>
> I would say that they are a bad idea. There will be a blind spot, >without doubt. So if you are to be safe, then you will have to look >around anyway. So why rely on mirrors some of the time when it is >unsafe?? Especially if there are likely to be people in the water. >There's no way you'd be able to spot a head in a mirror.
>
> Robin.

Head's? It is not often I need to look out for heads floating in the water.
What kind of gruesome river do you row on anyway? 8<D No, I get your point and
it is good one. Fortunately swimmers are not common where we row (the potomac
is too dirty downstream of the 14th street bridge, or so swimmers have told
me).

I am still testing this "forward" view mirror thing. I am going to try the
following suggestion as well to fight the blind spot problem -

"If you do use it put it on the side that you don't turn. That is if you
tend to look around on the right put it on the left. That at least will
help avoid the mirror blocking your vision." (Steven Maynard-Moody).

later,

eric

[J. Michaels]

Where I row, there are navigation "stakes", moorings, and of course other
boats. I tried a bike mirror once but was not too successful with it. The
stakes are especially difficult to see even when glancing about.

Does the extra area of the potomoc rowing mirror make a significant
improvement? You imply that you use two. How much extra does that help? How
serious, for you, are the blind spot considerations that have been mentioned
by other posters?
Jim

MElsen wrote:
>
> I find the "forward" view mirror useful, particularly in avoiding floating
> objects and in checking the navigation situation. The mirror is a bit
> difficult at first, but if you use the boat's bow as reference, the view
> becomes stable with practice. After using one (two) for five years, I feel
> unsafe without it, since I row where there are many logs and the river twists
> more degrees than my old neck.
>
> Potomic rowing sells larger (than bike) mirrors mounted either on a sweatband
> or ball cap. (800-477-0440 or
> http://mem...@aol.com/potomacrow/potomac/index.htm)
>
> Hope this info helps.
> Cheers,
> Morris

[Eric M. Whipkey]

Who uses rear view mirrors while rowing a single or while rowing bow in a
double, quad? Several people in my club use these, and I finally broke down and
got one. After almost running someone over the other day, I figured it made
sense. Maybe I just have to get used to it, but I found it very distracting and
it created a blind spot for my if I did turn around to really check things out.

Of course it did not help that I had them attached to a pair of sunglasses and a
thick fog set in shortly after getting on the water. Needless to say, I was
having trouble seeing in general with the fog. I am going to try them out
hooked to a ball cap rather than sunglasses next time. Maybe that will work out
better.

What do other people think of these, and how many use them?

eric

[MElsen]

[R P Collings]

[MElsen]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I ment that I am now on my second mirror,
since the first broke at the joint after five years of consistant mistreatment
by me.
One mirror is enough, and yes, you can see a head, a low log and an alligator
that looks like a log. Unless you turn your head like an owl, it hasn't got a
blind spot forward.
Cheers,
Moprris

[Koster J.A.]

A guy here in Amsterdam rows with mirrors on his oarlocks. No blind spot of
course, but I wonder if I would be able to see a lot in a little mirror mounted
about 80 cm away. The guy always uses them so apparantly it works for him
(although I did see him traveling very suddenly and swiftly in the other
direction after crashing head-on with a varsity eight one time).

A3aan.

--
Mathematics & Computerscience, VU, Amsterdam
http://www.cs.vu.nl/~a3aan/Roeien/

[MElsen]

I think the key to a good mirror system, like the Potomac one, is that it be
mounted such that it is about 15+ cm away from the eye and of reasonable size
(5x5cm). This morning I noted that, when looking around, the mirror on my
ballcap created a blind spot right next to the boat. I was looking over it,
sort of like bifocals/reading glasses. Also, just like non-mirror rowing, you
have to remember to _look_, even when you're concentrating on your catch or
sprinting. I don't use the mirror on bouyed courses, but it has kept me at
pace in head races. When I bought a speed-coach the first thing I noticed was
that my speed measureably dropped off when "navigating." I found that the
mirror really helped keep the course picture in my head ... along with giving
advance warning of tugs pushing barges.
Cheers,
Morris

[Hamilton Richards Jr.]

In article
<Pine.GSO.3.95-960729.99...@deneb.dur.ac.uk>, R P
Collings <R.P.Co...@durham.ac.uk> wrote:

It's amusing to see all these reasons advanced by non-users of mirrors,
explaining why mirrors can't work. I've been sculling with a bike mirror
(brand name: Third Eye) for roughly 10 years. I consider it an essential
item of my rowing equipment. It's not that my neck is stiff-- I can still
look ahead directly, but it's a lot more trouble.

What could R.P.Collings mean by "blind spot"? It's true that my small
mirror doesn't give a panoramic view of the river ahead, but that is not a
problem. By turning my head a few degrees either way I can scan
continuously for oncoming boats, bridge abutments, paddleboats, and
canoes. And the same scanning process continually refreshes my mental
picture of the river head.
Not seeing the whole view ahead at once is no more of a problem than it
is for the conventional head-turning sculler not to see the view all the
time. But it does take getting used to (I had the advantage of using the
morror first on a bike.)

Perhaps sculling mirrors will go the way of car mirrors. As I understand
it, no one used them until a mirror-equipped car won the Indianapolis 500
auto race, after which they became standard (not that everyone uses them,
either!).

--Ham

--
Hamilton Richards Jr. Department of Computer Sciences
Senior Lecturer Mail Code C0500
512-471-9525 The University of Texas at Austin
SHC 434 Austin, Texas 78712-1188

[Hamilton Richards Jr.]

In article <3742A23D...@cs.vu.nl>, a3...@cs.vu.nl wrote:

> A guy here in Amsterdam rows with mirrors on his oarlocks. No blind spot of
> course, but I wonder if I would be able to see a lot in a little mirror
mounted
> about 80 cm away. The guy always uses them so apparantly it works for him
> (although I did see him traveling very suddenly and swiftly in the other
> direction after crashing head-on with a varsity eight one time).

The problem with boat-mounted mirrors is that a rower is continuously
moving in relation to the mirror. That means that during some part of the
stroke, the mirror won't give a useful view. Of course one could get used
to that, but I prefer a mirror that is useful throughout the stroke.

[Hamilton Richards Jr.]

In article <19990519102927...@ngol01.aol.com>, mel...@aol.com
(MElsen) wrote:

> I think the key to a good mirror system, like the Potomac one, is that it be
> mounted such that it is about 15+ cm away from the eye and of reasonable size
> (5x5cm).

Because one focuses not on the mirror but on the view of the river
reflected in it, the distance (and size) of the mirror is not what really
matters. What matters is the angle subtended by the mirror. A small mirror
close to the eye can give the same view as a larger mirror further away.
Of course there are limits. If the mirror is too close, you can't see
past your own ear; if it's too far away, it's physically awkward. Both the
Potomac mirror and the (smaller) Third Eye seem to be well within the
limits.

>This morning I noted that, when looking around, the mirror on my

> ballcap created a blind spot right next to the boat....

The "blind spot" again. It's not a problem unless one is staring fixedly
(which would be rather hard to do while sculling!). Just turn your head
slightly from side to side, and there's no blind spot.
We all know how to do this, because we all come equipped with a blind
spot in each eye (where the optic nerve connects to the retina). If both
eyes are open, of course, each eye can see what's in the other eye's blind
spot, but try closing one eye. Is part of the scene invisible? No, because
you automatically shift your gaze to take in the scene piecemeal. With a
little practice, the same technique solves the same problem for sculling
mirrors.

[Eric M. Whipkey]

Hamilton Richards Jr. wrote:

> What could R.P.Collings mean by "blind spot"? It's true that my small
> mirror doesn't give a panoramic view of the river ahead, but that is not a
> problem.

I think the blind spot is more of a problem when you have the mirror too close
to your eye. I first tried a mirror on Tuesday of this week and I had a
considerable blind spot when turning to look around. This was because I had the
mirror attached to a pair of sunglasses and the mirror was very close to my
eye. Today, I tried using it while attached to a ballcap. This worked much
better because the mirror was not so close to my eye (at least that is my
theory). However, I still find it a bit distracting, and hard to use. I think I
will get used to it, and plan to use it for safety sake.

eric

[grahamca...@gmail.com]

I use a 40mm x 20mm mirror mounted 50mm from my right eye. To view I look down and to the right. The mirror is adjusted so my head is just visible, as is the bowball. Being close to the eye I get a wide view. Usually use it every 5th stroke.
Takes getting used to, perhaps most because you turn the head right to see left. Surprising how few rowers use mirrors, considering the feeling of control they give you. Would you be happy driving a car without mirrors, and that for where you've been, not going to?
I also use mine for collecting floating plastic rubbish - 17000 bottles to date. Carried up to 20 in my single which has a very open cockpit, under and in front of the stretchers.
I make and sell the mirrors.
Have fun - safe fun!

[John E]

Do you have a link to these?

Thanks.

[A. Dumas]

John E <jo...@john-ewans-design.co.uk> wrote:
> Do you have a link to these?

E.g. https://www.eurow.eu/en/accessories/rowing-mirrors.html

[John E]

> E.g. https://www.eurow.eu/en/accessories/rowing-mirrors.html

Yes I've used those type of things (although there are better ones around than that one). It sounded like this was something a bit different when he said "look down"?

[A. Dumas]

The second version on that page seems to have a ball joint so could
presumably be pointed downwards. I don't know!

[2potsin...@gmail.com]

In my experience using such a mirror (which, incidentally, I got through a bicycle shop - riders commonly use them to see who/what is overtaking them from behind) I have previously positioned it just below the level of my hat brim, at about eye level, and oriented so I can just see just the edge of my ear and the bow of my boat, bringing that area of the river into view. A nod of my head allows a sweeping view around, but I sometimes find that when I turn to actually look upriver, the mirror itself blocks my peripheral view of a portion of the riverbank beside me. This is an interesting idea, to position the mirror a bit lower (nose/mouth level?) so that I can still view over my shoulder, but with no interference of my eye-level peripheral vision.

[ed llorca]

As a complete newb who has no choice but to row in harbors I need mirrors in a big way. I opted to go overkill so I am mounting 4"x8" convex mirrors above my oarlocks. I will comment on how that works. I am/was a cyclist nad have used the small glasses mounted mirrors but I find the view very restricted for water use.

[ed llorca]

Just ran my mirrors today for the first time. All I can say is AWESOME!. If I must row backwards (and for now I must) these are the ticket. They are 4"x8" convex bought on ebay and I mounted them on top of my oarlock pins. I glance at them at the end of my stroke. The way I have them pointed, there is no blindspot and I can see about 45 degrees to either side of my path.

[Emm]

Hello, this is quite interesting - can you post a picture and explain
how you mounted them on the pins? thanks for sharing!

[ed llorca]

I can't seem to find how to post a picture.

[A. Dumas]

ed llorca <edml...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can't seem to find how to post a picture.

You can't, this isn't a web forum (you're just using one as an interface),
it's https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
You can post a link to a picture but you must host it somewhere else, like
google photos or icloud or flickr or imgur or.....etc.

[ed llorca]

Ok here goes. The pictures showing how I mounted them are at:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144289558@N05/albums/72157709131668636

The mirrors I used can be found at ebay (US), item number 283462494834

I am quite happy with this setup.

[Emm]

Thanks a lot for the pictures - nice set up for busy waters!

[ed llorca]

Thanks!

Sadly learning to row in busy waters is my curse right now.

ed