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Insane advice from rowing shoe maker
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Carl
Dec 17, 2013, 8:18:03 AM12/17/13
to
This on the Adidas Newstream website, about their Adipower rowing shoe:
"Shotlist
"The lightweight adipower rowing shoe construction aims to reduce
overall weight on the rowing boat. A stronger stroke cycle means a
faster race, so these shoes are designed to strap on tight. Their stiff,
lightweight outsole leads to super-efficient power transfer to the
footplate. They also include a ventilation mesh for breathability and a
snug, glove-like fit to enhance the rower�s feel of the boat."
This is a pile of arrant burble, typical PR pufffery, but it is wrapped
around some truly dangerous advice. It took a non-rowing (I hope) idiot
to come up with this recommendation in that 2nd sentence:
"A stronger stroke cycle means a faster race, so these shoes are
designed to strap on tight."
We too often see rowers who have done just that - strapped themselves in
as tightly as they could, say it makes them feel more secure &, even,
that coach told them to do so.
I doubt there's a better way of ensuring the user remains strapped into
the boat & drowning after it has capsized. I hope club safety officers
will take note and warn their members that their safety depends on their
shoes being only loosely strapped. I hope, too, that this will spur all
concerned to check that their heel restraints allow no more than the
50mm of lift, beyond which the curvature of the shoe sole around the
incompressible foot structure may render the foot's passive release
impossible.
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglas.co.uk & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
"Shotlist
"The lightweight adipower rowing shoe construction aims to reduce
overall weight on the rowing boat. A stronger stroke cycle means a
faster race, so these shoes are designed to strap on tight. Their stiff,
lightweight outsole leads to super-efficient power transfer to the
footplate. They also include a ventilation mesh for breathability and a
snug, glove-like fit to enhance the rower�s feel of the boat."
This is a pile of arrant burble, typical PR pufffery, but it is wrapped
around some truly dangerous advice. It took a non-rowing (I hope) idiot
to come up with this recommendation in that 2nd sentence:
"A stronger stroke cycle means a faster race, so these shoes are
designed to strap on tight."
We too often see rowers who have done just that - strapped themselves in
as tightly as they could, say it makes them feel more secure &, even,
that coach told them to do so.
I doubt there's a better way of ensuring the user remains strapped into
the boat & drowning after it has capsized. I hope club safety officers
will take note and warn their members that their safety depends on their
shoes being only loosely strapped. I hope, too, that this will spur all
concerned to check that their heel restraints allow no more than the
50mm of lift, beyond which the curvature of the shoe sole around the
incompressible foot structure may render the foot's passive release
impossible.
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglas.co.uk & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
Kit Davies
Dec 17, 2013, 10:13:56 AM12/17/13
to
that hit my single being within easy grasping distance, allowing me to
keep my head above water. If I had hit a branch or something in the
water, the nation would have a widow and 3 children on its hands.
In my ignorance, I had tied my feet in too tightly. Never again. My
single now has shoes 3 sizes too large on purpose.
I strongly submit this advice should be given equal prominence to the
length and strength of heel restraints.
Kit
Richard
Dec 17, 2013, 1:21:53 PM12/17/13
to
gsl...@gmail.com
Dec 17, 2013, 2:31:53 PM12/17/13
to
On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:13:56 AM UTC-8, Kit Davies wrote:
> In my ignorance, I had tied my feet in too tightly. Never again. My
> single now has shoes 3 sizes too large on purpose.
>
> I strongly submit this advice should be given equal prominence to the
> length and strength of heel restraints.
>
> Kit
I do the exact opposite. Smaller shoes but with laces entirely untied and very loose. I only lace up the first couple of eyelets. Unlike big shoes, my feet don't slide at all and I slip out of them very easily. I think I would come out of them even without the heal ties.
> In my ignorance, I had tied my feet in too tightly. Never again. My
> single now has shoes 3 sizes too large on purpose.
>
> I strongly submit this advice should be given equal prominence to the
> length and strength of heel restraints.
>
> Kit
sully
Dec 17, 2013, 3:26:18 PM12/17/13
to
successful only in the singles/aeros (except one single so far). At the lake
club all the old crap boats I have there have clogs except for the eight.
The jury rigging was somewhat clunky in the double and quad, but it works.
It seems there could be some sort of mechanical design where you clamp in your own shoes, have a lever to release, and a mechanism release triggered on how high your heels come up.
I've not seen anything of the sort, but I'm not much of a modern equipment shopper.
Not sure how practical, if it's built to last and be low maintenance, it could get a bit heavy I would guess.
Henry Law
Dec 17, 2013, 4:25:22 PM12/17/13
to
On 17/12/13 20:26, sully wrote:
> it could get a bit heavy I would guess
Yeah ... that's important. I mean to say, those Adidas guys have made
> it could get a bit heavy I would guess
the soles of their shoes real light to save weight.
Better not let the crew take a sip of water before they boat, though,
for fear of undoing all the lightening that Adidas have done to the
shoes. :-)
--
Henry Law Manchester, England
Carl
Dec 17, 2013, 8:03:31 PM12/17/13
to
On 17/12/2013 15:13, Kit Davies wrote:
> The fact that I am able to reply to this post is only down to the 4x
> that hit my single being within easy grasping distance, allowing me to
> keep my head above water. If I had hit a branch or something in the
> water, the nation would have a widow and 3 children on its hands.
>
> In my ignorance, I had tied my feet in too tightly. Never again. My
> single now has shoes 3 sizes too large on purpose.
>
> I strongly submit this advice should be given equal prominence to the
> length and strength of heel restraints.
>
> Kit
Having seen a sculler struggling to survive in a similar situation, &
> The fact that I am able to reply to this post is only down to the 4x
> that hit my single being within easy grasping distance, allowing me to
> keep my head above water. If I had hit a branch or something in the
> water, the nation would have a widow and 3 children on its hands.
>
> In my ignorance, I had tied my feet in too tightly. Never again. My
> single now has shoes 3 sizes too large on purpose.
>
> I strongly submit this advice should be given equal prominence to the
> length and strength of heel restraints.
>
> Kit
having heard similar accounts as well as reports about people who didn't
make it, I understand how scary that must have been. Thank you for
sharing it.
You don't say how long or strong your heel restraints were, but I'd
always caution against setting priorities in this matter - just in case
the idea takes root somewhere that it's an either/or choice. Especially
when major kit makers are spreading dangerous fallacies to pump up their
sales.
For safe rowing you need shoes that are not tight tightly laced
(Richard's suggestion makes sense) & are fitted with heel restraints
which are well-adjusted (50mm rise), strong (2 strands of 4mm nylon
cord), with the cords properly attached (by passing through the hole in
the stretcher-board heel & then secured by a heat-seared knot too large
to pass back through that hole) _&_ fitted to a strong stretcher board.
Not too hard to arrange.
Cheers -
Carl
James HS
Dec 18, 2013, 3:17:07 AM12/18/13
to
The day I learned to have proper heel restraints and not do up my shoes was the day I felt safe(r)
People think I am mad when I say not to do their shoes up tight and I have noticed that it is a tendency of safety officers in clubs to be thought of as mad because they bang on about one thing and another.
What they don't get, is that there are life threatening dangers present in the sport (water, boats, engines - others (rowers) and that there are tried and tested systems to reduce these dangers, that, if correctly employed, will reduce the likelihood of a fatal outcome.
It frustrates me that they are seen as the responsibility of the CWSA and I have spent 5 years making sure that my club's members know it is THEIR responsibility to check these things, because it is their lives.
For a long time I made sure there was a well stocked launch safety kit available for each launch - only to find they were not being taken out!
So now it is the responsibility of the crew that launch the launch, not the coach, as it is their lives to be saved - before you put an engine on, the safety bag & kill cord need to be in the launch ........ finally the message got through and we had an incident where we had to deploy 9 foil blankets and they were all there and dry in the launch!
I don't blame rowers - they just want to come down and row. But there are pre-conditions to providing the kit and if those are met then the rowers will be safe(r).
James
People think I am mad when I say not to do their shoes up tight and I have noticed that it is a tendency of safety officers in clubs to be thought of as mad because they bang on about one thing and another.
What they don't get, is that there are life threatening dangers present in the sport (water, boats, engines - others (rowers) and that there are tried and tested systems to reduce these dangers, that, if correctly employed, will reduce the likelihood of a fatal outcome.
It frustrates me that they are seen as the responsibility of the CWSA and I have spent 5 years making sure that my club's members know it is THEIR responsibility to check these things, because it is their lives.
For a long time I made sure there was a well stocked launch safety kit available for each launch - only to find they were not being taken out!
So now it is the responsibility of the crew that launch the launch, not the coach, as it is their lives to be saved - before you put an engine on, the safety bag & kill cord need to be in the launch ........ finally the message got through and we had an incident where we had to deploy 9 foil blankets and they were all there and dry in the launch!
I don't blame rowers - they just want to come down and row. But there are pre-conditions to providing the kit and if those are met then the rowers will be safe(r).
James
Chris A
Dec 18, 2013, 1:10:29 PM12/18/13
to
Carl
Dec 18, 2013, 2:36:43 PM12/18/13
to
On 18/12/2013 18:10, Chris A wrote:
> And that you have a quick release strap so that you can undo both shoes at the same time. Not required under BR rules but is if you race internationally.
Chris -
> And that you have a quick release strap so that you can undo both shoes at the same time. Not required under BR rules but is if you race internationally.
This strap or cord is, for some, a handy thing to have, though it can
also be unwanted clutter for others.
However it is a device for convenience, not for safety. If FISA now
requires it, I am concerned that this rule may confuse the issue.
Such a strap is of minimal value to a rower stuck upside down in a boat.
They absolutely _need_ immediate passive release, which a
properly-adjusted & secured heel cord will always provide (unless
they've foolishly strapped themselves tight into their shoes).
If you provide a strap & call it a quick release device, you've diluted
the message by creating a false equivalence between that strap & proper
heel restraint cords. As a lifelong observer of rowers, I know their
tedious propensity for dismissing long-proven safety concerns; some fool
will argue, "I've got the pull-strap on the shoe straps so it doesn't
matter that my heel cords are too long/defective/missing, 'cos I can
still get myself free". Well, no they can't - not if injured, drowning,
in a panic or unconscious, when there's every chance that there's no one
to pull that strap for them before they die.
Remember, too, that it FISA allowed a German 2- to race at the Worlds in
2006 with no heel cords. Meanwhile their nose-pokers were telling
scullers to remove maker's logos from seat pads! The Germans capsized
while over-acting the back-flop just after the race, leaving them
trapped & unable to escape. Then the rescuers made a complete cods of
getting them out, a subsequent report doing an unsavoury cover-up by
falsely blaming the oarlock maker for making their lives more difficult,
rather than blaming the crew & officials for the glaring equipment
safety breach. How good would such a rescue team, incapable of flipping
that inverted boat back upright, be at freeing a trapped, drowning crew
by means of straps dangling somewhere out of sight & out of reach under
the water?
The only grounds on which I can possibly justify the magical strap as a
safety aid would be if a rower had passed out in the boat. But, really,
how hard is it to undo 2 shoes to lift a rower out? Most rowers cope
without such a strap. It bears all the marks of something invented by
officials to make it look as if they know their stuff.
If that sounds a tad caustic, please understand that the essence of good
safety engineering is simplicity, passive response & reliability. If
you have just one thing to enforce (heel restraints) & one thing to say
(do _not_ over-tighten the shoes), life for the safety officer is easier
&, for the race-obsessed rower, becomes simpler & safer.
Cheers -
Carl
Brian Chapman
Dec 19, 2013, 7:57:26 AM12/19/13
to
ethan....@gmail.com
Oct 14, 2014, 9:24:20 PM10/14/14
to
Carl
Oct 15, 2014, 7:08:00 AM10/15/14
to
On 15/10/2014 02:24, ethan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:18:03 AM UTC-6, Carl wrote:
>> This on the Adidas Newstream website, about their Adipower rowing shoe:
>>
>>
>>
>> "Shotlist
>>
>> "The lightweight adipower rowing shoe construction aims to reduce
>>
>> overall weight on the rowing boat. A stronger stroke cycle means a
>>
>> faster race, so these shoes are designed to strap on tight. Their stiff,
>>
>> lightweight outsole leads to super-efficient power transfer to the
>>
>> footplate. They also include a ventilation mesh for breathability and a
>>
>> snug, glove-like fit to enhance the rower�s feel of the boat."
> On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:18:03 AM UTC-6, Carl wrote:
>> This on the Adidas Newstream website, about their Adipower rowing shoe:
>>
>>
>>
>> "Shotlist
>>
>> "The lightweight adipower rowing shoe construction aims to reduce
>>
>> overall weight on the rowing boat. A stronger stroke cycle means a
>>
>> faster race, so these shoes are designed to strap on tight. Their stiff,
>>
>> lightweight outsole leads to super-efficient power transfer to the
>>
>> footplate. They also include a ventilation mesh for breathability and a
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a pile of arrant burble, typical PR pufffery, but it is wrapped
>>
>> around some truly dangerous advice. It took a non-rowing (I hope) idiot
>>
>> to come up with this recommendation in that 2nd sentence:
>>
>> "A stronger stroke cycle means a faster race, so these shoes are
>>
>> designed to strap on tight."
>>
>>
>>
>> We too often see rowers who have done just that - strapped themselves in
>>
>> as tightly as they could, say it makes them feel more secure &, even,
>>
>> that coach told them to do so.
>>
>>
>>
>> I doubt there's a better way of ensuring the user remains strapped into
>>
>> the boat & drowning after it has capsized. I hope club safety officers
>>
>> will take note and warn their members that their safety depends on their
>>
>> shoes being only loosely strapped. I hope, too, that this will spur all
>>
>> concerned to check that their heel restraints allow no more than the
>>
>> 50mm of lift, beyond which the curvature of the shoe sole around the
>>
>> incompressible foot structure may render the foot's passive release
>>
>> impossible.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
>>
>> Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
>>
>>
>> This is a pile of arrant burble, typical PR pufffery, but it is wrapped
>>
>> around some truly dangerous advice. It took a non-rowing (I hope) idiot
>>
>> to come up with this recommendation in that 2nd sentence:
>>
>> "A stronger stroke cycle means a faster race, so these shoes are
>>
>> designed to strap on tight."
>>
>>
>>
>> We too often see rowers who have done just that - strapped themselves in
>>
>> as tightly as they could, say it makes them feel more secure &, even,
>>
>> that coach told them to do so.
>>
>>
>>
>> I doubt there's a better way of ensuring the user remains strapped into
>>
>> the boat & drowning after it has capsized. I hope club safety officers
>>
>> will take note and warn their members that their safety depends on their
>>
>> shoes being only loosely strapped. I hope, too, that this will spur all
>>
>> concerned to check that their heel restraints allow no more than the
>>
>> 50mm of lift, beyond which the curvature of the shoe sole around the
>>
>> incompressible foot structure may render the foot's passive release
>>
>> impossible.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
>>
>> Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
> HI i have a question i hope you can answer. do all adidas rowing shoes use the same foot plate
>
The best answer I can give is "sort of". But I thank you for bringing
>
back to general notice the important safety message in my earlier posting.
We moved from Adidas to H2Row quite a few years ago on the grounds that
the shoe was more robust and durable, roomier and more comfortable
(Adidas are built on a runner's last, long and narrow), the hole
positioning was more accurate, the bolt inserts more secure, they are
built from the outset as rowing shoes, and they have a better price tag
into the bargain. We put function before style. In our own shells we
will always fit the shoes that the client requires, but the great
majority like the H2Row.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
Jim Dwyer
Oct 15, 2014, 3:45:34 PM10/15/14
to
I use the Nike shoes and I wear them tight but comfortable. With properly
adjusted heel restraints and velcro closures. Try this. I did: Forget to
do up your oarlock and push off the dock. I was out of my shoes without
even thinking about it when the boat rolled me into the water!
The Adidas shoe use velcro closures but I did not see any heel restraint
attachment point. With velcro closures and heel restraints they are
designed to be worn tight but can be easily removed if you flip.
Jim
This on the Adidas Newstream website, about their Adipower rowing shoe:
"Shotlist
"The lightweight adipower rowing shoe construction aims to reduce
overall weight on the rowing boat. A stronger stroke cycle means a
faster race, so these shoes are designed to strap on tight. Their stiff,
lightweight outsole leads to super-efficient power transfer to the
footplate. They also include a ventilation mesh for breathability and a
snug, glove-like fit to enhance the rower’s feel of the boat."
adjusted heel restraints and velcro closures. Try this. I did: Forget to
do up your oarlock and push off the dock. I was out of my shoes without
even thinking about it when the boat rolled me into the water!
The Adidas shoe use velcro closures but I did not see any heel restraint
attachment point. With velcro closures and heel restraints they are
designed to be worn tight but can be easily removed if you flip.
Jim
This on the Adidas Newstream website, about their Adipower rowing shoe:
"Shotlist
"The lightweight adipower rowing shoe construction aims to reduce
overall weight on the rowing boat. A stronger stroke cycle means a
faster race, so these shoes are designed to strap on tight. Their stiff,
lightweight outsole leads to super-efficient power transfer to the
footplate. They also include a ventilation mesh for breathability and a
robin_d...@hotmail.com
Oct 15, 2014, 4:19:03 PM10/15/14
to
As a volunteer checking rower ID on the boating pontoons at the World U23 championships hosted by Strathclyde Park a few years ago now, I noticed that one of the men's quads (in a lovely yellow shell) going out had completely detached heel restraints in all seats - I think it was the semi-final. Even though this was not my role, I brought this up first of all with the coach - who despite being non-UK told me to go away in fluent Anglo-Saxon dialect, and then to another senior local volunteer on my pier who was the safety delegate examining the boats (qualified umpire) who agreed that my point was correct and raised it with the coach, who walked away. Less than a minute later the team coach returned with a significantly better clothed (lovely dark material jacket and tie) FISA official who told us in no uncertain terms to look the other way because I didn't understand rowing at this level, nodded to the coach who signalled his boat to depart, and strolled away. I wasn't wildly impressed.
Carl
Oct 15, 2014, 9:40:19 PM10/15/14
to
On 15/10/2014 21:19, robin_d...@hotmail.com wrote:
> As a volunteer checking rower ID on the boating pontoons at the World U23 championships hosted by Strathclyde Park a few years ago now, I noticed that one of the men's quads (in a lovely yellow shell) going out had completely detached heel restraints in all seats - I think it was the semi-final. Even though this was not my role, I brought this up first of all with the coach - who despite being non-UK told me to go away in fluent Anglo-Saxon dialect, and then to another senior local volunteer on my pier who was the safety delegate examining the boats (qualified umpire) who agreed that my point was correct and raised it with the coach, who walked away. Less than a minute later the team coach returned with a significantly better clothed (lovely dark material jacket and tie) FISA official who told us in no uncertain terms to look the other way because I didn't understand rowing at this level, nodded to the coach who signalled his boat to depart, and strolled away. I wasn't wildly i
mpressed.
>
Which neatly explains the official efforts blame an oarlock-makerwhen
> As a volunteer checking rower ID on the boating pontoons at the World U23 championships hosted by Strathclyde Park a few years ago now, I noticed that one of the men's quads (in a lovely yellow shell) going out had completely detached heel restraints in all seats - I think it was the semi-final. Even though this was not my role, I brought this up first of all with the coach - who despite being non-UK told me to go away in fluent Anglo-Saxon dialect, and then to another senior local volunteer on my pier who was the safety delegate examining the boats (qualified umpire) who agreed that my point was correct and raised it with the coach, who walked away. Less than a minute later the team coach returned with a significantly better clothed (lovely dark material jacket and tie) FISA official who told us in no uncertain terms to look the other way because I didn't understand rowing at this level, nodded to the coach who signalled his boat to depart, and strolled away. I wasn't wildly i
mpressed.
>
that German pair ended up trapped under their boat after capsizing at
Dorney in the Worlds a few years back.
They'd gone afloat with absent or non-functioning heel restraints while
FISA officials were diligently checking & stopping anyone who had
committed the cardinal error of having a maker's name on their seat pad
(I kid you not). And after the race they'd done the big, dramatic
layback in the boat & ...... flipped! Panicking rescuers steamed out
there & started trying to undo the gates (with which they were
apparently unfamiliar, instead of simply rolling the boat back over as
any fool could have done.
They say the official tie exists to prevent blood from flowing to the brain.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
Chip Johannessen
Oct 16, 2014, 7:27:09 PM10/16/14
to
>
> HI i have a question i hope you can answer. do all adidas rowing shoes use the same foot plate
They do not, or at least they didn't used to. The standard Adidas hole pattern (which matches H2Row) was not the same pattern that Adidas used on its high end Adistar model. Not sure what the hole pattern is on Adipower, which kind of replaced the Adistar.
> HI i have a question i hope you can answer. do all adidas rowing shoes use the same foot plate
Everyone here is right about the problem of getting trapped in these shoes but boy do the highly engineered Adidas models feel great. Until you're upside down in the water I guess.
Best
Henry Law
Oct 17, 2014, 2:05:20 AM10/17/14
to
On 17/10/14 00:27, Chip Johannessen wrote:
> boy do the highly engineered Adidas models feel great
There are many rowers who frequent this group who are, or at least were,
> boy do the highly engineered Adidas models feel great
much stronger and better rowers than I, so I stand to be corrected, but
I completely fail to see how a highly engineered shoe can do anything to
make the boat go faster.
Plainly one needs a shoe in decent order (which many are not), and it
doesn't need to be made of lead. And the effect on one's state of mind
of having new, expensive and supposedly-better equipment is well
attested. But sticking with physics and engineering, surely it's just a
shoe?
rolyb...@googlemail.com
Oct 17, 2014, 5:13:06 AM10/17/14
to
0 new messages