Cameras on a boat during a race - Legal ?
Mike Barker
Please help - do any of the Rowing Associations and Federations have a
rule against placing a mini video camera on board a boat during a
race ?
The ContourHD camera is on the stern facing the crew. The cam has been
fitted with the safety of the crew in mind, and is secured with a
leash. The video will be used later with Dartfish.
Many thanks,
Mike
Stelph
I don't know about the south African rowig association but I've been
using cameras on boats for a while now in training and at scullers
head and Turin silver skiffs with no issues if that helps?
Here's some exmples
http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&gl=GB#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=5hFaxHpCuSk
My race in Turin, Italy
http://m.youtube.com/index?client=mv-google&gl=GB#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=2Anh5MzqoHE
Richard du P
part:
> Greetings from sunny South Africa !
>
> Please help - do any of the Rowing Associations and Federations have a
> rule against placing a mini video camera on board a boat during a
> race ?
It wouldn't astonish me if there were some sort of problem at the very
top international level, with "image rights" or whatever the correctly
inelegant newspeak is.
Can a FISA umpire advise?
Richard du P
Walter Martindale
I think you're probably OK as long as there's no transmission between
the boat and shore during the race but...
W
Mike Barker
racing ? ( rather than during practice )
It seems that video footage of the crew's performance during a race
would have great value ? This is when they are under pressure and
this is when it counts ?
During training the coach can watch them from close up but the coaches
never get to see close up how the crew perform under racing
conditions ?
[ excuse my rather simple logic – i am a newbie to this strange art
of paddling boats :-) ]
Stelph
Well, having played around with camera's on boats for a bit I have to
say that although they are of some use for watching and coaching
technique, they may not be as useful under racing situations since how
"pretty" a crew rows isnt comparable to boat speed, theres also power
output, fitness ect
More useful I would think would be to combine a camera with either a
strain guage and/or a speedcoach that is recording the boat speed for
playback analysis, since then you might be able to identity on the
speedcoach where the boat speed is lacking, and then try and identify
any techincal faults that may be causing it
Tink
> strain guage and/or a speedcoach that is recording the boat speed for
> playback analysis, since then you might be able to identity on the
> speedcoach where the boat speed is lacking, and then try and identify
> any techincal faults that may be causing it
Or equally identify traits that make the boat go faster.
Mike Barker
> More useful I would think would be to combine a camera with either a
> strain guage and/or a speedcoach that is recording the boat speed for
> playback analysis, since then you might be able to identity on the
> speedcoach where the boat speed is lacking, and then try and identify
> any techincal faults that may be causing it
Stelph,
Understood - the camera has a GPS, and we collect accelerometer and
inclometer data too. But now we want to put this all together with
the video.
The gist of my question is - are cameras on boats common in your
country / rowing events. And how do we make the installation of the
cams as safe as possible ?
Tink
I row on the South Coast of UK, haven't seen any cameras on boats
apart from the Oxford-Cambridge boat race.
Duct tape?
SingleMinded
Cameras attached to the bows of boats in the Cambridge Bumps races
aren't uncommon. Duct-tape has been used (with a mount at/near the bow
number slot). The other possibility in Cambridge is that some boats
have a wooden block fixed just behind the forward end of the
saxboards, where they come to a point. This was originally a place to
mount a "course disc"- a signal that the boat was doing a long piece
and other boats should let it go by, which has been got rid of by
changes in the rules of the Cam. Some smaller cameras come with mounts
that could be screwed to this piece of wood.
Of course, these cameras can't see the crew, so have little coaching
value- they're mostly for fun. My club is working on a high mount
behind the cox, attached to the stern canvas with suction cups and
with a hinge so it can be folded down.
Carl Douglas
Quite a few years ago I made up a rig to compare the force profiles of a
sculler who claimed she had a problem in going straight.
I won't go into the details here, except to say that I built a simple
but effective differential force balance, calibrated to detect the
differences between the loads on the 2 pins throughout each stroke. The
readings were displayed in analog form on an engineer's dial gauge which
was connected to the device and accurately detected its necessarily
small movements. We filmed the gauge & the sculler with a video camera
which we taped onto the aft deck.
We were thus able to record data on posture, hand levels & the
(premeditated) loading up of one side's finish during test pieces. Now
that was really useful & informative, the more so since there was the
audio track which the sculler, speaking with her coach in her own
language, failed to realise would be recorded and could be translated.
Thus we saw and measured the deliberate fabrication of a bogus result,
and had the spoken words which indicated that this was about to happen.....
That was a very costly and time wasting exercise, but necessary under
the particular circumstances. I sent the lady a copy of the tape and
heard no more - not even an apology.
Rowing is a sport populated by decent people, which means that clients
like that are even rarer than hens' teeth.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
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URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
Charles Carroll
> result, and had the spoken words which indicated that this was about
> to happen.....
Carl,
Why was this sculler trying to fabricate bogus results? Was she trying
to make a case that there was something amiss with your rigging? Or
your shell? What would she get out of doing such a despicable thing?
Cordially,
Charles
Carl Douglas
Some minds are impenetrable, some motives best not closely studied. The
allegation was that the boat tracked off course, & did this so severely
that she could not help changing lane within 10 strokes. I'd guess
she'd had a bad start in an event, gone off course, felt embarrassed in
her personal relationship with her coach & decided to save face by
blaming it on the boat. Don't know if it involved Lysistrata's tactics.
In fact the boat demonstrably ran straight - when being paddled
normally, during strokes, between strokes & every stroke. It was being
hoicked off course when under pressure by the deliberate & measurable
emphasis of one side's finish. To achieve these radical course changes
she also had to scull with the boat tipped strongly to one side, giving
one blade a markedly different lateral pitch progression from the other.
As indicated, the case is unique in our experience. It cost me almost
1000 miles of travel, 2 crowded ferries, 2 lost days, plus a week to
devise, assemble & test the force balance system. And shortly after my
return I developed chicken pox. It kinda niggles.
But the point of raising this was to demonstrate how easy it is to
devise cheap & effective ways to measure performance-affecting
parameters in rowing. We were talking about measuring catch angles as
if that's somehow difficult, when really it's easy once we engage our
collective grey cells. Not everything requires fancy electronics (OK, a
video camera is pretty fancy).
I am sure that to advance our sport we need to measure more, think more
& assume less. But before we measure we should know exactly what we are
measuring, have a good idea of its significance & be sure that our data
are not contaminated. The arrow should aim for the heart of the problem.
Stelph
> value- they're mostly for fun. My club is working on a high mount
> behind the cox, attached to the stern canvas with suction cups and
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ive made one of these mounts, its how im getting footage like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufNL73aGgjA
Its a little wobbly but hangs on well in a racing start :-)
Essentially it is a tripod (for stability) with suction cups so I can
quickly remove between sessions when racing the boat