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CrokerOars

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M. Manderscheid

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May 29, 2003, 11:33:35 AM5/29/03
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Hello!

I'm a german boy and I like rowing, of course! We have got an 8+ which
will get sponsored by UBS(a big bank from Switzerland). And they are
going to "give" us 8 new croker oars and some t-shirts with their sign
on. Are these croker oars really so good, or what do you know about
them?

Thank you all!

Mo

PS: I hope you can understand "my English"! :)

The Machine

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May 29, 2003, 11:41:48 AM5/29/03
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Well, our club bought 8 of them, and only the 2 crews which went to BUSA
(British University Championships) and when combined went to Head of the
River in our now broken 8, are allowed to use them - they set them up
specially for themselves.

J

"M. Manderscheid" <m.mande...@manscha.de> wrote in message
news:1ca45eac.03052...@posting.google.com...

Stuart Jones

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May 29, 2003, 11:52:40 AM5/29/03
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Cambridge University use them in the Oxford/Cambridge University Boat Race.


"M. Manderscheid" <m.mande...@manscha.de> wrote in message
news:1ca45eac.03052...@posting.google.com...

Jon Anderson

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May 29, 2003, 12:25:06 PM5/29/03
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M. Manderscheid wrote:
> Are these croker oars really so good,

Yes, they're nice. We bought some Croker oars for the first time and
we're happy with them.

Your English is fine. ;-)

Jon
--
Durge: j...@durge.org http://users.durge.org/~jon/
OnStream: acco...@rowing.org.uk http://www.rowing.org.uk/

[ All views expressed are personal unless otherwise stated ]

Neil Wallace

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May 29, 2003, 12:36:09 PM5/29/03
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"M. Manderscheid" <m.mande...@manscha.de> wrote in message
news:1ca45eac.03052...@posting.google.com...


The "nancy boy" pink collars should suit your German sense of the aesthetic
I'm sure.
Other than that they're as good as any blades on the market... probably.

Neil


Walter Martindale

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May 29, 2003, 1:11:22 PM5/29/03
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Crokers were used by many crews racing at the 2000 Olympics, and in my
part of the planet (western Canada) they're popular in part because of
the favourable exchange rate between the Canadian dollar and the
Australian dollar, where other equipment that is imported with US dollar
pricing costs considerably more. As well, many of the athletes I coach
like the way they feel. Are they more effective or faster? When you
get right down to it, equipment makes only a small difference until
you're at the very top levels of performance, and even then a large part
of performance in racing is based on strength, endurance, and mental
spririt.
I think you'll like rowing with the Crokers.
Walter

Adam Carter

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May 29, 2003, 4:32:24 PM5/29/03
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We have a pair of crokers for use in our pair and we love them! We had
some droop snoots (they're like the standard concept II blade,
non-smoothie) and they were great. But sadly they were stolen. We
replaced them with croker smoothies and they're even better! The
connection with them is better than any other blade I've ever used,
but this may be becuase I decreased the pitch on the gate!
I'd certainly highly reckomend Crokers to anyone who wants to buy
blades.

Also could you point such a generous sponsor in our direction?! The
most we've managed to get so far is a setof t-shirts for our eight
(which we're very happy to get it has to be said!)

MD

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May 30, 2003, 2:32:02 AM5/30/03
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"M. Manderscheid" <m.mande...@manscha.de> wrote in message
news:1ca45eac.03052...@posting.google.com...


Well it seems everyone else is full of nothing but praise for croakers,
however I feel there are some downsides, in my experience at least.

I have been part of my school 1st 8 for the past two years and this season
we've made the swap from croakers to concept C2's and I have to say the new
C2 blades were much nicer than our old (3 years) croakers. Our primary
reason for change was the handles. We had the blue spongy material on the
croakers and after a relatively short time this can become a real pain. The
problem is the handles get grime / dirt in them from normal use and when the
handles get wet from either rain / splash / horrendous tideway conditions
they get incredibly slipy, which doesn't help matters if your trying to rate
high. The new C2 handles don't seem to suffer this problem at all, and
talking to people who've been using them longer than us hopefully they wont
suffer the same fate. They do cause some interesting calluses to pop-up, but
they've never given me a blister either.

Also here in England almost every junior crew rows with concepts of one form
or another, I'm not really sure why. At the end of the day, you've got two
choices: Concept vs. Croaker. You'll be able to row with either, and a crew
isn't going to beat you because of you've got one and they've got the other.

Hope that's helped somewhat.


M. Manderscheid

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May 30, 2003, 2:57:42 AM5/30/03
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adam_j...@hotmail.com (Adam Carter) wrote in message news:<6824a8c9.03052...@posting.google.com>...

> Also could you point such a generous sponsor in our direction?! The
> most we've managed to get so far is a setof t-shirts for our eight
> (which we're very happy to get it has to be said!)

With the sponsor we had a lot of luck, because one of my friends (we
are sitting in the 8+ and 2- together)has asked his father and his
father is the "most important man" in the UBS in Germany. So his
father talked to the rest of the important people and they decided to
sponsor us. And one reason was, that our 8+ is going to start on the
German Championship in 4 weeks. We are starting for Hambrug, 'cause
its the official Hamburg 8+. On the last regattas we had some good
results, so that the chance to get a medall is becoming better and
better. And if a boat which is sponosored by UBS wins a medall, it
will be good advertising publicity for UBS.

Neil Wallace

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May 30, 2003, 4:09:02 AM5/30/03
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"MD" <steve...@NOSPAMntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:uVCBa.10$BD1....@newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net...

>. At the end of the day, you've got two
> choices: Concept vs. Croaker. You'll be able to row with either, and a
crew
> isn't going to beat you because of you've got one and they've got the
other.
>

don't forget Braca and Dreher.

so you've got at least 4 choices...


Roger

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May 30, 2003, 4:26:36 AM5/30/03
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m.mande...@manscha.de (M. Manderscheid) wrote in message news:<1ca45eac.03052...@posting.google.com>...

The English is excellent.

Try www.crockeroars.com an excellent site with all the designs etc on.

We seem to have a croker only policy at the club at the moment. I like
them but then again I don't have a huge range of experience with
different makes.

Jamie Croly

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May 30, 2003, 5:20:21 AM5/30/03
to
> Well it seems everyone else is full of nothing but praise for croakers,
> however I feel there are some downsides, in my experience at least.
>
We had the blue spongy material on the
> croakers and after a relatively short time this can become a real pain. The
> problem is the handles get grime / dirt in them from normal use and when the
> handles get wet from either rain / splash / horrendous tideway conditions
> they get incredibly slipy, which doesn't help matters if your trying to rate
> high.
===
Try cleaning the handles regularly!!! Use sugersoap and a small
scrubbing brush as the manufacturer recommends and then rinse
thoroughly after. This works with all handles sponge, wood, CII
composite.

I have a set of CII Vortex Smoothies for my schools 1st 8 that I had
the Croker sponge handles put onto. The only compaints develop whan
they are dirty and greasy from blood, sweat and tears. A quick clean
gets them back to their grippy state.

Jamie

Adam Carter

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May 30, 2003, 8:15:46 AM5/30/03
to
At the end of the day, you've got two choices: Concept vs. Croaker.

I'm sure the people selling Eton, Braca and Dreher blades'll be
surprised to hear that!

As far as the handles issue are concerned, as long as you clean the
handles regularly (we do it once a moneth) that dirt'll come out. The
foam handles, in my opinion, are easier to grip when wet. I personally
hate the concept II handles. I find they're far worse in the wet as
the slick plastic has no grips at all and gives horrible blisters.

Different strokes for different folks I suppose! [sic]

Adriaan

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May 30, 2003, 8:25:16 AM5/30/03
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Don't forget Empacher.

--
Adriaan

j brontey

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May 30, 2003, 12:05:26 PM5/30/03
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jcr...@stithian.com (Jamie Croly) wrote in message news:<1124d7aa.03053...@posting.google.com>...

> > Well it seems everyone else is full of nothing but praise for croakers,
> > however I feel there are some downsides, in my experience at least.
> >
> We had the blue spongy material on the
> > croakers and after a relatively short time this can become a real pain. The
> > problem is the handles get grime / dirt in them from normal use and when the
> > handles get wet from either rain / splash / horrendous tideway conditions
> > they get incredibly slipy, which doesn't help matters if your trying to rate
> > high.
> ===
> Try cleaning the handles regularly!!! Use sugersoap and a small
> scrubbing brush as the manufacturer recommends and then rinse
> thoroughly after.

You took the words right out of my mouth. In my experience the Croker
handles have been by far the best in wet conditions as long as they're
clean. It must be a spinoff of surfing technology. Anyway, I just
washed them with dish soap and scraped out all the grime with the
unsharpened side of a knife. I tried to talk my club (in Montreal)
into getting some when we were buying three sets of oars but there was
some concern about getting repairs so far away from the home factory.
We tried to get the Canadian rep for Croker to throw in two extra as a
spare set but they wouldn't bargain so we bought from CII for roughly
the same price.
The only time I tried Braca sport oars, our eight took about ten
strokes then went back to the dock for our regular oars because the
blades just felt really strange in the water.
Ben

Ewoud Dronkert

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May 30, 2003, 12:25:01 PM5/30/03
to
On 30 May 2003 09:05:26 -0700, j brontey wrote:
>Croker
>Braca

And did ever row with Empacher oars? Empacher sculling blades are
widely used in Holland.

E.

Andrew Trimble

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May 31, 2003, 1:00:58 AM5/31/03
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> The English is excellent.
>
> Try www.crockeroars.com an excellent site with all the designs etc on.
>


I think the link you want is actually www.crokeroars.com

HTH
A

Nick Suess

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May 31, 2003, 1:05:18 AM5/31/03
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"Adam Carter" <adam_j...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6824a8c9.03053...@posting.google.com...

> At the end of the day, you've got two choices: Concept vs. Croaker.
>
> I'm sure the people selling Eton, Braca and Dreher blades'll be
> surprised to hear that!

And there was also a French brand called Drakkar. Is that still going? And
there are a number of other small time oar manufacturers including one in
Queensland called Mike Taylor Oars. I've rowed with them and reckon they're
a decent budget-priced product. So you see, as the Braca distributor for
Australia and New Zealand, I'm prepared to pay the mark to other products,
especially the one under discussion, Croker. I note that their biggest
detractor was so bright that he/she couldn't even spell the name when it was
written out in front of him. No, they are not frogs, they don't croak.

I've met Howard Croker on a number of occasions, and have great respect for
him. I reckon he is a true craftsman and a very straight dealer. Someone
Australia can be proud of for what he has achieved in what is a now a global
business. I personally think all the oars named are good products, and
reckon rowers should view them with an open mind, acepting that their
preferences are probably personal and individual. And in any purchasing
decision they should look at long term value as a major criterion. Maybe
trying a new set of oars for all of 10 strokes and going back to the dock
because they're different is a sign of inexperience and immaturity, because
there are plenty of clubs world wide who buy and love their Bracas, and
these oars have been good enough to win an Olympic medal.

I reckon there's room in the marketplace for anyone who puts out a well made
product at a decent price. But if you're in Oz or NZ and want to know more
about Braca, I'm your man.

Nick Suess
Scull Success
Bayswater, Western Australia
(08) 9271 0466


MD

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May 31, 2003, 6:49:26 PM5/31/03
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"Nick Suess" <ni...@scull.com.au> wrote in message
news:3ed8390c$0$10...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...

Well thank you for the insults to my intelligence, I wasn't aware that a
less than perfect spelling ability, or in this case an over reliance on a
computer spell checker, made my opinion any less valid.

Having got that out the way I rate crokers very highly and agree that
washing the handles with soapy water alleviates the problem but seems to be
a progressively shorter term solution with each wash. Perhaps we weren't
scrubbing hard enough?! Again I ask what was wrong with expressing the
issues we have had with the blades?

As you so rightly point out the choice is personal and individual... and in
my personal opinions if there were only Concepts, Bracas and Crokers, I
would say there are only 2 choices. This is not because I have only used
Bracas for 'all of 10 strokes'. With the Bracas at my boat house I
(personally, although along with the majority of the crew) find that bracas
weight distribution is significantly different to either croker or concepts
and as such produce an 'odd' feeling when first used but one which you could
easily get used to over time. That aside and not holding it against the
Bracas because it's not a bad thing, just a personal observation: On top of
this the Bracas we have sit in the water at what appears and feels to be
entirely the wrong height and to make matters worse they have the smallest
'square position' edge of any blades in the boat house (admittedly I haven't
got the ruler out). This results in it frequently being difficult to be
fully aware if you are 5 degrees over square or not. Perhaps this is a sign
of my crews lack of ability and immaturity but I would hazard a guess and
say we are a better crew than the vast majority of university 8's, and if
you want to make a mass market product (in so far as there is such a thing
in rowing) then why make it with an unnecessary awkwardness like that of the
Braca square position. Did not concept advertise the C2's around the fact
they were easier to set in the square position? Obviously this is just my
opinion, based on my (and my crews/clubs) experiences and others will no
doubt disagree, especially if they are a Braca distributor.

I cannot comment on Dreher or Eton blades as i have come across neither,
except perhaps some eton sculling blades, but this discussion was about
sweep.


Ewoud Dronkert

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May 31, 2003, 7:46:54 PM5/31/03
to
On Sat, 31 May 2003 23:49:26 +0100, MD wrote:
>I wasn't aware that a
>less than perfect spelling ability, or in this case an over reliance on a
>computer spell checker, made my opinion any less valid.

So now you are.
BTW, thanks for sharing your experience with blades.

Cheers,
ED

Henning Lippke

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Jun 1, 2003, 9:35:52 AM6/1/03
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> then why make it with an unnecessary awkwardness
> like that of the Braca square position. Did not concept advertise
> the C2's around the fact they were easier to set in the square
> position?

Just back from a weekend with Braca oars, I'm v.happy to hop into my
shiny boat with C2 blades again tonight.

Reason: Apart from a different setup of the hosting club's oarlock
height (figured out fast) I found out that the Bracas don't sit that
stable in their squared position. They tend to oversquare, or other way
round, it's very easy to turn the blade too far. Don't blame the
equipment, but I'm sure I would have been 2/10s faster to beat my
opponent if I hadn't caught a crab during that race :-)

-HL

j brontey

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Jun 1, 2003, 4:07:14 PM6/1/03
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Ewoud Dronkert <nos...@invalid.info> wrote in message news:<0c1fdvkofl7q23vpg...@news.xs4all.nl>...
Hi Ewoud,
I've never tried Empacher, but people I knew who used them really
liked them and compared the feel to Croker oars. They're very rare in
Canada because of the cost and ready availability of CII oars.
Ben

Andrew Sims

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Jun 2, 2003, 1:48:22 AM6/2/03
to
Crokers do have a wood veneer adjustable oar handle as an option to the
blue grip.

Andrew Sims
In message <uVCBa.10$BD1....@newsfep2-gui.server.ntli.net>, MD
<steve...@NOSPAMntlworld.com> writes

--
Andrew Sims

Walter Martindale

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Jun 1, 2003, 8:50:40 PM6/1/03
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Hi Nick,
"Ben," (jbrontey) who I think made the remark about 10 strokes and then going back for the regular set, has some level of maturity and experience - If it's who I think it is, he's in medical school and has a world championship in rowing (LM2-, if I'm not mistaken).  Some folks can tell if they're comfortable right away.  Sometimes this may mislead one into thinking that just 'cause it feels different it's not good when actually the discomfort is due to things being "easier", and other times if it feels uncomfortable it can lead to injury.
Walter

Ewoud Dronkert

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Jun 2, 2003, 5:36:56 AM6/2/03
to
On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 00:50:40 GMT, Walter Martindale wrote:
>"Ben," (jbrontey) who I think made the remark about 10 strokes and then
>going back for the regular set, has some level of maturity and
>experience - If it's who I think it is, he's in medical school and has a
>world championship in rowing (LM2-, if I'm not mistaken).

Jasmine Brontey is pictured on http://back.to/rsr

Cheers,
Reworked Donut

The Master Chief

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Jun 2, 2003, 3:55:45 PM6/2/03
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I would love to get hold of some of those concept II dressigackers tho.
Anyone compared the 2?


F


Nick Suess

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Jun 2, 2003, 11:51:23 PM6/2/03
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"Ewoud Dronkert" <nos...@invalid.info> wrote in message
news:dj6mdvsc8l0am2s9r...@news.xs4all.nl...

Well, I've certainly been dumped on from a great height here, and no doubt
deservedly so. But my shoulders may yet be broad enough. At least please
note that I spoke in nothing other than positive tone about all my
competitors' products, especially Crokers, which is what this thread is
about.

The sleeves on all the Braca oars I've ever sold are made by Martinoli and I
think are from their standard product range, which I believe is used by
other oar manufacturers but significantly not by Croker. But if there is a
collective opinion that the flats on them are too small, that's a point to
be noted and registered with the company. As for weight distribution, I'll
do a little check of the c of g of some Bracas agains Croker and Concept to
check this out, because I'd like to know.

Senilus S Chaos


Walter Martindale

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Jun 3, 2003, 11:30:34 AM6/3/03
to
Hi again Nick,
Sorry to have dropped that one on you.

I've never actually rowed with either Braca or Croker.  A good friend in Canada is the Braca importer for Canada, and Howard Croker is also a friend I met while in Kiwiland.  We (Alberta Rowing) used Braca at a training camp in Victoria BC, and had no complaints - everyone who tried them seemed to like the feel, connection, weight, balance, etc.  Everyone who has tried the Crokers seems to like the feel etc of Crokers, too, with the only complaint being the sweep grips when they're dirty; and from the "macho" types, the pink sleeve.  We went with Crokers because they cost us $1000 less for 18 oars and 18 sculls than either C2 or Braca when we bought them in 2001.  The athletes like the blades, clubs and athletes buying their own around Alberta have continued to buy Crokers since then, in part because of the exchange rate, and in part because they like the feel.
One of the clubs in Alberta has a couple of sets of chinese made sculls and seem happy with them, too.  

In the long run, it's the motor that makes the difference - as long as the oar/boat combination is rigged well.
Walter

j brontey

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Jun 3, 2003, 8:23:39 PM6/3/03
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"Nick Suess" <ni...@scull.com.au> wrote in message news:<3ed8390c$0$10...@echo-01.iinet.net.au>...
Maybe
> trying a new set of oars for all of 10 strokes and going back to the dock
> because they're different is a sign of inexperience and immaturity

Ewoud Dronkert <nos...@invalid.info> wrote in message news:<dj6mdvsc8l0am2s9r...@news.xs4all.nl>...
>

> Jasmine Brontey is pictured on http://back.to/rsr
>
> Cheers,
> Reworked Donut

And more importantly, biased in this topic as you can clearly identify
the Croker Oars in our hands. But really, with the Braca's it was
more a problem of being at the other end of inexperience--being too
set in our ways to bother figuring out what to do. I think the pins
were probably set for smoothies as well so it might have been a couple
of degrees under what is required. All I remember is that some
unpleasant difference was obvious immediately and by ten when it
wasn't better there was a collective, "uuhhhh....let's go back in...".
First impressions!

Cheers,
Ben

Friso Vrolijken

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Jun 6, 2003, 4:16:56 PM6/6/03
to
Hi all,

I also sumbled upon this one: http://www.svensk-komposit.se/04prod/prod.html
anyone have any experience with it?

Groeten,

Friso

M. Manderscheid

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Jun 8, 2003, 1:05:01 PM6/8/03
to
This weekend we had a regatta here in Hamburg/Germany. It's the
biggest international junior regatta in Germany, and we wanted to
start in our eights with the new croker oars. On the first day, we
didn't use them, but we could win this heat. Next day, that means
today, we used our new oars. Our enemies were very strong and they are
all mutch bigger then we. But we didn't have a bad race and so we
placed third of six. On the German Championship that would have been
the bronce medal. :)
I'm (the whole eights is) totally satisfied with the new oars. They
got much bigger blades and you can "make more pressure".
At first, I have been a little bit afraid, that the grip won't be so
good. Because all of our croker sculls are very slippery, when they
get wet. But the oars are very good. If the4y were wet or not, I have
never lost the grip.
I like them!! :)
I think that we'll use them now until autumn and then we'll see, what
to do with them. Perhaps we'll get new oars again. :)

Mo

Henning Lippke

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Jun 8, 2003, 2:54:58 PM6/8/03
to
> At first, I have been a little bit afraid, that the grip won't be so
> good. Because all of our croker sculls are very slippery, when they
> get wet.

Don't forget the clean the grips regularly. For better grip and
hygienics (word?).

I already becoming used to clean my grips after every outing. They feel
so much better then.

-HL

Neil Wallace

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Jun 9, 2003, 5:00:01 AM6/9/03
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"Adriaan" <usenet....@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3ED74DAC...@xs4all.nl...

> > don't forget Braca and Dreher.
> >
> > so you've got at least 4 choices...
> >
>
> Don't forget Empacher.
>

Also, look at
http://www.suttonblades.co.uk/xcell.asp

The shaft torsion issue _could_ be a breakthrough?

Neil Wallace

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Jun 9, 2003, 5:01:53 AM6/9/03
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"Walter Martindale" <wmartind@SPAMSTOPPER??telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:ua3Da.8913$6f3.1...@news1.telusplanet.net...

Snip


> the only complaint being the sweep grips when they're dirty; and from the
"macho" >types, the pink sleeve.


nothing to do with being "macho" - they're just ugly - IMO


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