Re: Any reviews of the Schwinn WIndjammer rower?
robin_d...@hotmail.com
> <snipped> Does anyone have
> experience with the Schwinn model? Thanks for any input.
Hi MSE,
To preserve the spirit of Christmas, and to save the time a certain
RSRer would normally take to flame you or anyone else making this type
of request, someone posts to RSR roughly every 2 months with a request
like yours regarding one of many non-rower-targetted "rowing" machines.
In short, recapitulating from the usual responses :
1) Best practise with RSR is to go to the search box and query for the
machine you are interested in as a search term within RSR before
posting. If it is not mentioned, forget it - the rowing populace will
have dismissed it outright for fairly obvious reasons (to a rower), and
there are easier and cheaper ways to damage yourself. If it is even
vaguely well known there may well be a prior review in the archives,
and with the exception of Concept 2 and (I think) Water-rowers (are
they the same as Rowperfect?), the response is still almost
overwhelmingly negative regarding anything other than those two types,
usually on the grounds of build quality & longevity, ergonomics,
accuracy & reproducibility / feedback quality of onboard monitoring and
software, and finally in terms of being able to compare the efforts you
are putting in with other athletes and training programme expectations.
Any serious gymnasium, programme or competition mostly use C2s, and to
a slightly lesser extent, RPs, so to compare, you need to be using one
of them. Even if you end up spending considerably more on them in
terms of initial outlay - it's like buying a good quality power tool or
a decent bicycle - generally it will last you longer and work better
overall.
Second-hand, they can give exceptional value and good service for a
large reduction in price - check out the www.row2k.com classifieds page
(North America), Rowing Service UK Notices (www.rowingservice.com, then
click through to UK notices) or http://www.rowgear.com/ (UK) as a
redistributor.
See the link below as the sole example which did mention the Schwinn
back in 2001.
2) Don't reply to Usenet groups using the Google Groups web-based thing
that I do otherwise you will also get flamed for having done so. Bad
netiquette, apparently.
Hope this helps.
Robin
Henry Law
> 2) Don't reply to Usenet groups using the Google Groups web-based thing
> that I do otherwise you will also get flamed for having done so. Bad
> netiquette, apparently.
I don't understand this bit, Robin. You're presumably referring to the
fact that the Google news client doesn't automatically quote history in
a follow-up; but it can be suffered to do so. Quoting from
comp.lang.perl.misc, in which group the shortcomings of "Google Groups"
are a perennial subject of grumpy comment, ...
If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com,
don't use the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the
article. Click on "show options" at the top of the
article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom of
the article headers.
> Hope this helps.
In my opinion your post is a truly excellent summary of the position on
"other" rowing machines in this group; if we had an FAQ this would be #1
in it. I'm going to save its URL in the archive, so that I can post in
a couple of months when the next person who couldn't be bothered
Googling posts a request for rowing machine info here.
Carl Douglas
Many new visitors to this newsgroup will be totally unfamiliar with its
features & practices. Indeed, they may have little or no familiarity
with the Internet's huge diversity, & may not know how best to search
Usenet for past articles & threads.
Being new to the game, it is not that they "couldn't be bothered" when
they ask what, to some of us, seem obvious or trivial questions. They
really do want to know & are seeking our help, so let's give them less
"instruction" & spend that time to give them the answers they seek.
That way we will win more friends, more followers of RSR &, thus, we may
hope to encourage more people to row.
In answer to the original question: the real rowing world has little
time for rowing machines - which rowers always call ergometers - except
these 3:
1. Concept-II www.concept2.com
2. Rowperfect www.rowperfect.com
3. WaterRower www.waterrower.com
If our friend will click on the links I have provided he will have more
than enough reading to last most people until New Year. Then he can
come back & ask a load more questions &, I hope, we will between us find
time to give him complete responses.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JY, UK
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 Fax: -466550
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
pbc76049
"Carl Douglas" <ca...@carldouglas.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dordem$be2$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
> If our friend will click on the links I have provided he will have more
> than enough reading to last most people until New Year. Then he can come
> back & ask a load more questions &, I hope, we will between us find time
> to give him complete responses.
>
> Cheers -
> Carl
Nicely Done Carl.....
John Mulholland
ergometers. Before you can make useful comparisons, you need to decide what
you want to use it for.
If you want to compete in indoor rowing as a sport you will need the Concept
2 because it is the VHS of the indoor rowing world (everyone has one). On
the Concept 2 you can compete on-line against a friend (or an enemy)
anywhere in the world and know that the speed shown on your machine is
directly comparable with his or hers.
If you want to prepare for rowing on the water, many (including the GB
Rowing Squad) consider that the RowPerfect is the best simulation of rowing
in a racing shell.
If the noise level is a concern to you (if you live in a block of flats or
condo), the Water Rower is by far the quietest.
I've only had a brief look at the Nautilus website, and have never seen a
Windrigger in the "flesh", but the questions I would ask are:
Does the read-out give you a useful measure of the work you are doing? Can
you compare one machine with another?
Is it comfortable to use? You should not use any rowing machine for more
than about 30 minutes at a time without pausing to stretch your back.
Is it too noisy to use in your home? Remember that any machine may seem
quiet in a gym but in the relative peace of your house it can be unbearable.
Do any of your friends have one? Can you race each other over the internet?
Does it matter?
Whatever your decision, welcome to the world of rowing and I hope you get
many years of enjoyment from it.
John Mulholland
"Carl Douglas" <ca...@carldouglas.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dordem$be2$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
<snip>
liz
at $1099, you might as well buy a water rower or concept 2
"John Mulholland" <john.mulholland@*NO*SPAM*PLEASE*dsl.pipex.com> wrote in
message news:mLKdnaz-sce8FSze...@pipex.net...
robin_d...@hotmail.com
Am trying the improved way of that Henry suggested to use for replies
using Google Groups to see firstly if it works twice in succession, and
secondly to suggest something, based on the responses that the recent
query about the Schwinn machine and others have elicited. I should
probably have done a search of the RSR archives myself to establish
whether the following has been proposed or done previously, but here
goes.
All of us regular RSR users when confronted by these requests about
rowing machines go back to a basic point as we've seen here, which is
that there are really only the three main types of machine which we use
ourselves (C2, RP, WR) and advocate for the various positive reasons
that we all know as rowers. Principal among them is that at the very
least, they are all designed sufficiently well that you are able to
perform something which is basically like a rowing stroke regardless of
whether it is you or the machine which is moving, and if there is an
air or water drum at the other end of it.
All we really tell interested third parties is that basically, you
shouldn't consider another machine because largely speaking these ones
have got the ground so well covered that there's little point looking
at another one. Then a few weeks later, someone comes along and asks
about another "new to market" gym-rower. We go over the same ground.
And so on ad infinitem, but without actually reviewing the equipment as
rowers to tell people why they *shouldn't* be spending their 299 euros
(or in some cases, 1400, or 1500E for the deluxe models) on that pile
of utter cack. I don't know of any independent expert reviews of all
of these "non-rowing"-machines, and was wondering if between the RSR
community we could spend a few minutes of our time, actually go to the
stores, try these alternative machines out, and come up with "drivers
tests" somewhat akin to any typical car magazine so that we can have an
archive of what is out there and definitively why it is or isn't worth
the cash.
The reason I thought of all this was that I was spending some time in a
sports retail store earlier today with the Schwinn thread in the back
of my mind. They have gym equipment for the home market as well as
most other types of sports equipment. Within the range of gear they
had for the home gym was a "Sculling" machine. Two independent handles
on long curved metal arms parallel to the track, pivoting at backstops
in the vertical plane. Resistance comes from two attached hydraulic
cylinders mounted near the computer. Action enables you to row from
heel height at the catch, to head height at the mid-stroke, and
nipple-height at the finish (but with the elbows going vertically
downwards at this stage!). First 9 inches of pull there is no
resistance at all - you're in a dead zone at the end of the resistance
cylinders - and then a sudden surge of resistance as the liquid starts
moving. Great for teaching people to row over a barrel and get a sore
back, but not much else.
Secondly, something roughly the dimensions of a C2, with an air
resistance drum, handle, computer, and so forth - except it weighs 89
kilograms!!!!!!! So I hopped onto it, having asked the salesman for
permission. Velcro strapped my feet onto the freely-rotating (around
mounting pivots directly under the foot arch) footstretchers, and
established that it would be possible to over rotate the ankle either
above or below the pivot depending on whether you push off the toe or
heel. Couldn't therefore push as hard as normal during the drive
because it felt so unstable. HORRIBLE! Secondly, there was huge
inertia and then erratically variable resistance during the drive -
like a badly worn C2 chain. The drum had no means to change the
resistance, and seemingly zero momentum, so it stopped as you did. The
rope(!) that the handle was attached to then sprang back very fast
indeed - actually drags you back. Maximum compression (handle against
the drum!) was half slide. I believe Neil Wallace coined the phrase
"Small dog shagging a tree" to describe the action. So it is basically
unusable for anything except high cadence, badly-postured pseudo
rowing. I took 5 strokes and got off, feeling shagged. Even the tree
looked like it had a headache.
Henry Law
> of utter cack. I don't know of any independent expert reviews of all
> of these "non-rowing"-machines, and was wondering if between the RSR
> community we could spend a few minutes of our time, actually go to the
> stores, try these alternative machines out, and come up with "drivers
> tests" somewhat akin to any typical car magazine so that we can have an
> archive of what is out there and definitively why it is or isn't worth
> the cash.
This is an attractive idea but may not be entirely practical, since we'd
need to cover a wide range of machines for such an enterprise to be
useful to the would-be back-damager, and I don't know how freely
available demo machines are of all these various devices.
I'm not saying we couldn't do it - let's see what others think, and get
some idea of our collective wish and will to do it - but your idea
prompts me to offer a modification. What say we produce a "buyer's
guide" to rowing machines, wherein we can give advice to the purchaser
by describing the things that the "accepted" machines do well (or badly,
indeed) and some of the ways in which the rubbish ones don't?
Looking at your post, for example, you've highlighted the need for
/even/ resistance /from one end of the stroke to the other/: not just
for fidelity to the rowing stroke (which would-be tree-shaggers may not
care about) but also to protect the lower back.
--
Henry Law <>< Manchester, England