'tennis elbow' from rowing

[JMH]

Hi,

Lately I have noticed that the tendons above my elbow hurt with a dull
throbbing pain when I start rowing for the day, or do a few assorted semi-
strenuous movements that have elbow movement. Is this a common thing? Is
there something I shoudl try to do in order to fix this? I have a hard time
doing tricep extensions as it puts a lot of strain on that tendon, but would
doing them with light weight help this? Any info would be most appreciated.
Thanks

JMH

[Robert Ennals]

I'm currently off rowing due to having both tennis elbow and golfers elbow in
both wrists, + ITB tendonitis in my right leg.

My pain is all related to wrist movement, rather than elbow movement, but
tendon trouble in general seems to be quite a common problem with rowers.

I've been told to rest until my wrists stop hurting. I'm thus currently
ticking over with a bit of cycling, swimming and wrist-avoiding-weights for
the moment.

-Rob

[Andy and Abbe Lynch]

If you have pain above the elbow with movement of that joint, ie with
tricept extensions, then you don't have "tennis elbow" also known as lateral
epicondylitis. With tennis elbow you would tend to have pain on the lateral
side of your upper forearm just at or below the elbow joint line especially
with flexion of the wrist and/or fingers. Rowers can get this usually as a
result of feathering too hard. You may have tendonitis, which is all tennis
elbow is, but of a different tendon. If when you say "above the elbow" you
mean on the lateral side or the posterior portion of you upper arm close to
the elbow joint, then I often get the same problem when I start rowing or
erging again after not having done so in a couple of weeks or more. For me
it tends to be a minor annoyance and will go away with time and tempered
workouts. The typical treatment for most cases of tendonitis includes rest
from aggravating activities, stretching of the tendons involved, icing
several times per day, and non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (ie
ibuprofen/Advil/Motrin, naproxen/Aleve, and a multitude of others.) If it
bothers you enough that you feel the need to take any meds for it, then you
should see your physician to make sure what the problem really is and if
there are any reasons you shouldn't be taking the meds.

Andy

JMH <jm...@ANTISPAM.udel.edu> wrote in message
news:91F96B833jmhrc...@128.175.153.216...

[Tim Granger]

In article <1019573986...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>,

...and taking any anti-inflammatories? Ibuprofen does wonders for
tendons!

Tim

[Robert Ennals]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Tim Granger wrote:
>In article <1019573986...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>,
>Robert Ennals <rj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:

[snip]

>>I've been told to rest until my wrists stop hurting. I'm thus currently
>>ticking over with a bit of cycling, swimming and wrist-avoiding-weights for
>>the moment.
>
>...and taking any anti-inflammatories? Ibuprofen does wonders for

>ttendons!

I've been told to, but I keep forgetting.

[pause as Rob pops a 400mg ibuprofen tablet]

Thanks for reminding me :-)

-Rob

[Tim Granger]

In article <101957483...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>,

Robert Ennals <rj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Tim Granger wrote:
>>In article <1019573986...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>,
>>Robert Ennals <rj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>>I've been told to rest until my wrists stop hurting. I'm thus currently
>>>ticking over with a bit of cycling, swimming and wrist-avoiding-weights for
>>>the moment.
>>
>>...and taking any anti-inflammatories? Ibuprofen does wonders for
>>ttendons!
>
>I've been told to, but I keep forgetting.
>
>[pause as Rob pops a 400mg ibuprofen tablet]
>
>Thanks for reminding me :-)

Maybe I should have a flag to wave outside my window every few hours!

Tim

[Anne Harrison]

I suffered similar once, for me not erging helped, instead I did a step
machine and a cycle machine as well as playing netball. I found rowing on
the water was fine though (just a niggle rather than a shaper pain I used to
get a few mins into a low rate ergo). Try an ibuprofen cream on the affected
area, this helped me until I became intolerant to it.

[Robert Ennals]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Tim Granger wrote:
>In article <101957483...@nntp-serv.cam.ac.uk>,
>Robert Ennals <rj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Tim Granger wrote:
>>>...and taking any anti-inflammatories? Ibuprofen does wonders for
>>>ttendons!
>>
>>I've been told to, but I keep forgetting.
>>
>>[pause as Rob pops a 400mg ibuprofen tablet]
>>
>>Thanks for reminding me :-)
>
>Maybe I should have a flag to wave outside my window every few hours!

Or you could try throwing something out of your window so that it bangs against
mine...

[My office window faces Tim's]

-Rob

[Anne Harrison]

>
> [My office window faces Tim's]

hmm, I know when I had my phd inteview I could see him at his computer!

[Tim Granger]

In article <aa42m2$7n5s7$1...@ID-119598.news.dfncis.de>,

Anne Harrison <an...@anneharrison.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> [My office window faces Tim's]
>
>hmm, I know when I had my phd inteview I could see him at his computer!

For this dubious honour (if I'm at my desk):

http://www.mcshane.org/webcam/

Tim

[Michael Sullivan]

JMH wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Lately I have noticed that the tendons above my elbow hurt with a dull
> throbbing pain when I start rowing for the day, or do a few assorted semi-

I noticed this happening to me on my left arm, it
was becoming extremely painful to scull, I could no
longer do bardips, though I could do pullups. I
tried rowing square blade a lot but it only helped
marginally. I thought it was possibly scar tissue
built up from a years ago bone chip that was inflaming
the joint, so went to the doc.

doc diagnosed tennis elbow. From discussing what I did
exercise-wise it seemed sculling was the culprit.

I took a shot of cortisone which relieved the pain within
about 4 days, in the meantime avoiding rowing.

When I started sculling again, and I felt no pain at
all in my elbow, no problem.

Last Saturday morning, I went out with my 12 yr old son Connor
to get some baseball practice before his game. One thing
I did is to hit him some fly balls, ie toss a baseball up
and hit it high in the air.

After about 15 fly balls, I noticed my elbow hurting like
hell, and getting worse with every swing. I put the bat down
and started throwing the flies for him. Upon reflection,
the pain started when I started working with him this winter
to get him ready for his little league baseball season. I
hit him lots of fly balls over the months, catching flies
is a difficult thing to learn to do.

Doc suggested ibuprofin also, and said if I had more trouble there
is a strap you can put around your forearm right by the elbow
that relieves the stress.

No probs other than swinging the bat!

Now to do something about my shoulder, and my hamstring....

Mike

[Robert Ennals]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Michael Sullivan wrote:

[snip]

>Doc suggested ibuprofin also, and said if I had more trouble there
>is a strap you can put around your forearm right by the elbow
>that relieves the stress.

I tried one of those straps.

I found that it gave no noticable benefit to the tendonitis, and caused the
muscle to hurt like hell from pushing against it whenever it flexed.

I still have a big red mark round my left arm from a strap that was only on
there for a few hours and was taken off almost three weeks ago.

-Rob

[Robert Ennals]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Anne Harrison wrote:
>>
>> [My office window faces Tim's]
>
>hmm, I know when I had my phd inteview I could see him at his computer!

Anne had her interview in the office next to mine.

We really are far to cliquey...

-Rob

[Anne Harrison]

>
> I still have a big red mark round my left arm from a strap that was only
on
> there for a few hours and was taken off almost three weeks ago.

that might indicate you had it either too tight or in the wrong place?

[Turtle]

Hey,

Stay away from anti-inflammatories, they only take away from the natural healing process. Let the
pain come and your body will fix itself and this will help it from coming back
again.....anti-inflammatories just get rid of the pain, but don't fix the problem, so you will get
it again and again........Just ice and rest.....best thing for you.

MPJ

[Robert Ennals]

Or that it was a bad idea for me to do a set of hard pyramid pieces in a coxed
four with it on.

It was fine when I wasn't rowing. It just hurt like hell if I wanted to pull
really hard with the muscle underneath.

-Rob

[Tim Granger]

In article <gmqbcu87p6shakjco...@4ax.com>,

Turtle <mattp...@rogers.com> wrote:
>Hey,
>
>Stay away from anti-inflammatories, they only take away from the natural healing process. Let the
>pain come and your body will fix itself and this will help it from coming back
>again.....anti-inflammatories just get rid of the pain, but don't fix the problem, so you will get
>it again and again........Just ice and rest.....best thing for you.

Odd - I thought that anti-inflammatories stopped the inflamation which is
the killer about a tendon injury; doesn't this help the natural healing
process? BTW this is only based on my own personal experience; I left a
tendon injury for about 3 weeks with complete rest (ie adjusting how I
type, doing no exercise) and it never got completely better - on ibuprofen
for less than a week and it sorted itself completely, no recurrance so far.

Tim

[Andy and Abbe Lynch]

Not exactly. Yes, inflammation is part of the process of healing, but the
real question is what level of inflammation denotes healing. When talking
about tendonitis, an injury to a tendon may cause inflammation, ie
tendonitis, which can be part of the healing mechanism for the injured
tendon. However, the process of inflammation, like many other biochemical
processes in the human body can in a sense turn on itself and start to
overreact through a series of positive feedback mechanisms leading to a
vicious cycle of continued and sometimes worsening tissue inflammation. This
can and does occur well beyond the point where the actual injury to the
tissue is gone, but the inflammation continues to cause pain and limit
activity. Anti-inflammatories do not "get rid of" inflammation. They reduce
it and if taken while the level of inflammation is overactive, they can
reduce it enough to return to activity. Taken in properly prescribed doses
and for the proper period of time, they certainly have been shown to allow
people to return to a given activity pain free more quickly than if they had
not taken them and more so than a placebo too. Except in specific cases,
they are quite safe. I'm aware of no credible studies that show an increased
risk of re-aggravating or re-injuring a previous injury after having taken
anti-inflammatories vs. a group with similar injuries who did not take them.
If you know of any to support your opinion, I'd love to read them.

Andy

Turtle <mattp...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:gmqbcu87p6shakjco...@4ax.com...

[Turtle]

Hey Andy,

In one of my university courses this year we talked more specifically about muscle damage, compared
to tendonitis. Any ways, our prof just mentioned that the role of anti-inflammatories is starting to
be studied more and if they do benefit. You are correct in saying that taken in the right doses they
do help. I just think that now they are doing studies to determine what is the best does and if they
inhibit the natural process of healing.

MPJ

[Andy and Abbe Lynch]

Then I look forward to seeing the results of the studies. I would be quite
surprised if anything significant was found to support your statements, but
that's the beauty of research. Surprises are quite common.

Andy

Turtle <mattp...@rogers.com> wrote in message

news:u8rgcuk8jlshfvc3u...@4ax.com...

[Ellis Taylor]

I'm a physiotherapist in AUstralia. I recently was informed about the most
current stance of tendon injuries by one of my colleagues her attended a
recent musculoskeletal medicine/physio conference. The facts a now showing
that with tendon injuries they really don't have a clue! Sure they
understand many biomechanical means of tendon injury (like that which has
been discussed) but as to the processes of healing (or failed healing in
most cases) they are quite unsure. I'm myself have a lot of clinical
experience with patients (including rowers, golfers, tennis players etc..)
who have various successes with varying treatments. What the experts are now
saying is that genetically speaking, some people have better tendon healing
abilities than others. There was a few funny anecdotel stories at this
stage, but I won't bore you with those.

To cut a long story short......do whatever it is that works for
you.........maybe get a good coach to look closely at your position and hand
grip!

ET

"Andy and Abbe Lynch" <anal...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:aabnh5$k0e$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...

[lclai...@gmail.com]

hey, i have a question, how long did u have to rest ur arms until u could start rowing again ? im currently in the same situation...
Sincerely, Claire

[Carol]

I always get some elbow tendinitis in my right arm from weights, 10 years of single-blade paddling, and now rowing. I bought a Thera-band flexbar (red for me) and started doing these exercises:

https://youtu.be/gsKGbqA9aNo

In addition, I hold it straight up in the air and wobble it in all directions and that helps a lot.

It has helped tremendously. I can row everyday with only mild discomfort and a set of exercises usually helps sort it out. I don’t take any anti-inflammatories.

I bought mine on Amazon.

Carol

[Peter]

We're all guilty of using simple assumptive terminology. Calling a painful elbow 'tennis elbow' is simply a blanket term that gets Doc off the hook of doing more.

Pain is the body's way of saying - rest me. Inflammation is a response to leakage from damaged cells with more buzz-words about active substances and free radicals. It has two main actions...chemotaxis to invite a healing response and immobilisation of that body part to help rest it.

How well something will heal depends on your own abilities to do so and exactly what has been damaged. If it's a tendon then is the damage within the tendon itself or at the attachment to muscle or bone: if it's periosteal lifting and tearing then that can heal with new bone filling in the gap. If it's tearing of a joint capsule then all sorts of potential horrors 'could' happen from periarticular osteophytes to little chips getting into the joint - so give it another label and call it arthritis (another blanket term with sub-types).

In extreme cases the inflammatory response will lead to further damage and benefits from some control but in most cases the answer is simple enough.. rest and time but keep the area mobile but unloaded. I was at a lecture some 15yrs ago where the arthrologist stated that despite decades of research the best answer to arthritis was to lie on your back in a tropical swimming pool, gently paddling with arms and legs and popping aspirin every 4 hrs.

As for medication well, yes, soemtimes you need something but when you see what ibuprofen can do to a dog or aspirin or paracetamol to a cat then they aren't meds to take on a whim even if you can survive them. I prefer the advice one give a lame horses owner; take the shoes off and turn it out into a field for 6 mths.

pgk

[tcyr...@gmail.com]

I’ve got tennis elbow years ago from swinging a hammer while residing my garage. It’s with me nearly all the time. I took a winter job with FedEx and it got a lot worse.

I do three things to keep it under control.
1. Anti inflammatories
2. K-tape really helps (go on YouTube and look up tennis elbow k-tape)
3. Stretching (again, YouTube)

[gsl...@gmail.com]

I had a problem a while ago. The Thera-band helped. What helped the most were wrist rotations with a weight. My forearm on a table with the hand over the edge and rotating a weight (e.g. hammer, heavy pipe wrench) 90 deg. to each side.

Figure out what works for you.