Coastal Rowing boat, can anybody help indentifying the manufacturer?
Mike De Petris
no Donoratico, no Euro Diffusions...
Carl when will you start your coastal line? :O)
di@rocktheboat
> http://picasaweb.google.fr/snmonaco/Challenge2009?feat=embedwebsite#5...
>
> no Donoratico, no Euro Diffusions...
>
> Carl when will you start your coastal line? :O)
Mike
Not what you were asking for (photo id or Carl's line of coastal
craft) but news from latest rowing mag is that Eric Sims is starting a
coastal line (having bought the Burgashell moulds from the receiver)
offering new boats, repairs and spares
www.esrowingservices.co.uk
see we do mention Coastal Rowing in the UK occasionally ....!
but, am sure we all are interested to read Carl's response to the
challenge for a coastal line ....
Dix
Mike De Petris
Thank you very much Dix, if anybody knows about Coastal Rowing sinlge
manufacturers please address me as I am trying to help a friend that
has to buy some to start activity.
donal...@gmail.com
There is a chap called Norris I believe on the South Coast of UK who
does what are meant to be some effective singles though doubt if its
as flash looking as the one in the piccy. Will speak to James Kerr
this weekend.
Donal
Mike De Petris
wrote:
Thank you Donal, say "ciao" to James from me :)
david.h...@aea.be
> challenge for a coastal line ....
> Dix
Coastal Pah! Carl builds boats for Channel crossings
Mike De Petris
wrote:
Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbon (PAH) ?
I have no other translations for that, can you help?
Carl Douglas
> On Feb 6, 6:05 pm, "david.hender...@aea.be" <david.hender...@aea.be>
> wrote:
>> On Feb 6, 1:48 pm, "di@rocktheboat" <d...@rock-the-boat.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> but, am sure we all are interested to read Carl's response to the
>>> challenge for a coastal line ....
>>> Dix
>> Coastal Pah! Carl builds boats for Channel crossings
>
> Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbon (PAH) ?
Best not inhaled, they say.
>
> I have no other translations for that, can you help?
>
Try this link:
http://www.carldouglas.co.uk/html/design.html
That picture at teh top left (from a video, I'm afraid, so poor
resolution) is of Bob Gullett in the middle of the English Channel
(well, the Straits of Dover, or le Pas de Calais) quite a few years ago
in what was then a rather elderly CD Custom 1x, & it is still in regular
use.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
Mike De Petris
> Try this link:
> http://www.carldouglas.co.uk/html/design.html
> That picture at teh top left (from a video, I'm afraid, so poor
> resolution) is of Bob Gullett in the middle of the English Channel
> (well, the Straits of Dover, or le Pas de Calais) quite a few years ago
> in what was then a rather elderly CD Custom 1x, & it is still in regular
> use.
is this opening a door for me having a CD 1x to race at Plymouth?
:-)
Carl Douglas
I'd love to say yes, but "they" wouldn't let you do it, Mike. Nor would
I recommend a fine shell for all of the kinds of conditions you could
expect during that event.
Charles Carroll
If memory serves me correctly, I believe the small photo of Bob Gullett in
the middle of the English Channel is slightly misleading. When you study a
blow up of the photograph you will see Bob's stern and bow separately
supported by two seperate rolling waves. Underneath Bob there is nothing but
air.
Carl's boats are not just beautiful, they are tough. Our should I say
"functional," as Darryl Stickler writes?
They also can handle surprisingly well in rough water, although as Carl
cautions that is not what they were built for.
Cordially,
Charles
Ps And yes, I am still having a love affair with my boat.
Susan Walker
> On Feb 6, 6:05 pm, "david.hender...@aea.be" wrote:
>> Coastal Pah! Carl builds boats for Channel crossings
>
> Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbon (PAH) ?
>
> I have no other translations for that, can you help?
Mike De Petris
useless for my research but thank you :-)
Caroline Smith
> "functional," as Darryl Stickler writes?
>
> They also can handle surprisingly well in rough water, although as Carl
> cautions that is not what they were built for.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Charles
>
> Ps And yes, I am still having a love affair with my boat.
Argh! All this CD-love just gets me more over-excited about mine. How many
weeks to go Carl? ;)
I have the name and ID number ready and waiting...
Caroline
(soon to be having a love affair with one of her very own)
Jake
The 'Mr Norris' who builds coastal rowing boats on the south coast is
most likely Allan Noice. I have just finished restoring a coastal
scull he built in 1979. Maiden voyage was this morning. It had started
delaminating a little in the middle and the club were going to cut it
up and burn it before I stepped in to save it. Allan is a member of
Southampton Amateur rowing club and still builds HDARA/ CARA spec
coastal singles/ doubles/ pairs constructed from 3 plies of cold
moulded mahogany veneer, though the demand for these beautiful boats
is drying up. Other builders of HDARA/CARA spec coastal small boats
are a chap called Chris Arnell who builds a distinctive looking single
in GRP that uses an aluminum wing rigger and a wash through type
cockpit remeniscent of the US maas 24. He's up at Christchurch. And
theres the burgashell moulds now taken on by Eric Sims, (1x, 2, 4+).
There's also a nice coastal 4+ (Marlin) now available from Rossiter
Yachts in Christchurch. But none of the above of of any use or
ornament for the Plymouth event as they are all far too fine for the
Fisa coastal rule.
The boat in Mike's picture is a FISA/ French spec boat, judging by the
rigger, an MPS, though they've changed the rigger type since. (http://
www.mpscomposites.com/web/pageLibre00010005.html). It's difficult to
see in this side on picture though, and as it's being sculled by Alain
Moretto, it might be a one off custom boat he was using in 2006 to win
the Coastal Challenge in Noli. That boat had some interesting
characteristics, such as an eliptical daggerboard under the seat deck,
I think to stop it from bowsteering when surfing downwind and running
up the back of the next wave.
There are a number of french/ FISA spec coastal boat manufacturers,
though I only know about the makers of singles. This morning I had a
chat with Allan Noice about the feasibility of building a FISA spec
single in cold moulded mahogany veneer, as the high minimum weight and
the ex traditional nature of many of the competitors both lend
themselves well to wooden construction.
Other than Eurodiffusions and MPS
http://web.archive.org/web/20070319191632/http://www.jmf-yole.com/
(This company called JMF yoles made a nice looking FISA single called
Resyst, but the site has now gone- hence it can only be reached by web
archiving) I also recall that JMF had a section on his site with plans
to build a stitch and glue plywood FISA spec single, but I cant find
it any more, which is unfortunate. It had a wooden wing rigger, with
instructions on how to build that too!
Jake.
Charles Carroll
I cannot imagine that you are not going to fall deeply in love with the
shell Carl is building for you.
Have you been able to spend much time in a Carl Douglas? I have discovered
that they move through the water differently from other boats I have
sculled.
Of course I am not all that experienced. My Club has Mass Aeros and 24s, so
these are the shells I first sculled. Then a friend lent me an ancient
Hudson, which in flat water was a lovely boat to scull. But these boats
handle quite differently the Carl Douglas.
I have found the Carl Douglas rather easy to scull. The Mary Elizabeth Stone
sets up beautifully, especially if I keep my knees together on the drive,
and finish properly, that is, on my "sitting bones " with my back straight,
with my body raised up high, and with my elbows out, perpendicular to my
body, and higher than my hands. For some reason my shell just loves it when
I can finish this way.
Speaking of love, a friend who regularly goes out with me loves to watch
Carl's boat knife through rough water. He says the bow pierces straight into
a wave, dips slightly, then rises and levels out. My friend, who knows a
little bit about hull geometry, attributes this to Carl's "deep-Vee bow
section." He says that "deep-Vee bow" design just lifts the bow up where
other shells tend to keep going down.
One thing I will be very curious to hear is how you find your new boat at
the finish. According to Darryl Strickler, "Many people who have rowed [Carl
Douglas] boats agree that few other racing boats 'run out' as well."
("Rowable Classics," p. 41)
I have to say that I am one of these people.
Over and again I find that once the blades come out of the water the Mary
Elizabeth Stone just wants to run. It is almost as though it is a living
entity with a will and mind of its own. I have spoiled many a finish by not
letting the boat do what it wants. Or should I say, do what it was built to
do? The Carl Douglas has the smoothest, most satisfying run of any shell I
have ever sculled. I have had to teach myself a whole new finish.
In "Chats on Rowing" Steve Fairbairn talks about rowing to your strong
point. "That is the point from which [an oarsman] can row his blade through
with a springing hit, and elastic draw, without feeling any heaviness or
effort." ("Steve Fairbairn on Rowing," p. 360)
In his chapter on the Recovery in "Rowing Faster" Volker Nolte writes: "When
rowers describe what it feels like to move fast in a boat, they often say
the boat is flying. This expression depicts not only high speed but also a
sensation of effortlessness. The idea that rowing feels effortless when
rowers are pulling pretty hard seems contradictory at first, but this is
what happens when rowers learn to preserve energy by performing movements
smoothly and efficiently." ("Rowing Faster," p. 177)
I have been grappling with the idea of "effortlessness" ever since I
stumbled upon it, that is, almost from the time I first started sculling.
For most of this time "sculling effortlessly" has only existed as an idea,
as a distant goal vaguely perceived. It wasn't real to me because I never
came close to achieving it.
Then last year I started sculling in Carl's boat and thinking about things
that I had never before thought about. I started studying the finish. I
began to focus on how the blades release and on being more relaxed and
letting the boat run. As I began to improve timing at the finish, I started
to see a connection between it and timing at the catch.
Then one day, all but unawares, I found rhythm. For some reason that
particular morning the timing at the catch and the finish fell into an easy
cadence. For the first time I experienced that "effortlessness" which
Fairbairn and Nolte are talking about.
I am convinced that it was inevitable. It had to happen. By its very design
Carl's boat insisted that it happen.
My father used to say that loving a good woman made you a better man. It is
the same thing falling in love with a Carl Douglas racing shell-it just
makes you become a better sculler. It is all part of the love affair.
Cordially,
Charles
carolinetu
unfortunately named Virus http://www.virusuk.demon.co.uk/, or Alden
http://www.rowalden.com/pubsite/
Caroline T
Mike De Petris
> If we're still talking about coastal singles, try the rather
> unfortunately named Virushttp://www.virusuk.demon.co.uk/, or Aldenhttp://www.rowalden.com/pubsite/
Thank you caroline, it's a pity none of them talks about FISA coastal
boats on their pages.
Mike De Petris
> The boat in Mike's picture is a FISA/ French spec boat, judging by the
> see in this side on picture though, and as it's being sculled by Alain
> Moretto, it might be a one off custom boat he was using in 2006 to win
> the Coastal Challenge in Noli. That boat had some interesting
> characteristics, such as an eliptical daggerboard under the seat deck,
> I think to stop it from bowsteering when surfing downwind and running
> up the back of the next wave.
Thank you for your useful answer. I've seen Moretto used a similar
double at Worlds, again with big "Kelme" writing on the side. Who made
those custom shells? Can you please explain me better about the
elliptical daggerboard? Any pics?
kda...@kidare.com
>I also recall that JMF had a section on his site with plans
> to build a stitch and glue plywood FISA spec single, but I cant find
> it any more, which is unfortunate. It had a wooden wing rigger, with
> instructions on how to build that too!
> Jake.
Not what you were after but I quite like the look of the SnipeFish by
Iain Oughtred. Example here
http://www.bootbouwer.nl/koppeling.html?ref=/oughtred/oughtredsnipefish.html#/koppeling.html
Kit
Charles Carroll
Caroline,
I apologize. A lengthy post on the glories of sculling a Carl Douglas has
absolutely nothing to do with Coastal Rowing Boats. I should have started
another thread. Mea culpa ...
Cordially,
Charles
Jake
Don't know who made these boats. I've not got any pics of the
daggerboard but remember it well. It was sited through the seat deck
just in front of the slides. It would be about 12 inches deep when
down, and had a chord width of about 5 inches. Similar in aspect ratio
and thickness to a windsurfer fin. Might have just been a long
windsurfer fin actually, off a formula board or similar.
Other rowers suggested that he pulled the fin up for the upwind leg,
and had it down for the downwind and cross/downwind legs. This
suggests to me that it was being used for directional stability when
surfing. Bow steering is an issue when surfing downwind in any craft
with fine bow sections, especially with a plumb bow like the FISA
shells have, and especially when the boat is light and too short to be
across several waves at once (4s probably suffer much less than
singles). I'm sure you've experienced it, but it is that scenario
where you start surfing down a wave, the sculls feel light and the
boat is really flying... Then your bow buries in the back of the wave
in front, and 9 times out of 10 you don't hit it directly straight on
so the boat slews round 45 or even in extreme circumstances 90 degrees
to the intended direction of travel. It's a real pain, because you
then spend the next 5 strokes pulling on just one hand to bring it
back round again, then you get the speed up, catch another wave, and
it all happens over again. So you row miles further than you have to,
slaloming downwind.
I know that when sailing downwind in waves in certain racing dinghies,
getting a bit of board down can reduce the ammount of rudder
corrections required, and hence be faster. I'd put money on Alain and/
or the guy who designs his boats being from a sailing background.
However. Moretto's centerboard looked to me like it was profiled like
a windsurfer fin, which I should think is a grey area rules wise.
Imagine a strong wind from an aft quarter. The windage of boat and
rower would mean he could essentially broad reach (sail) downwind,
much more than a similar boat with a single conventional aft fin. Not
quite like turning up to a coastal rowing race in a Laser, but half
way there.
Charles Carroll
I love it! ". . . that scenario where you start surfing down a wave, the
sculls feel light and the boat is really flying... Then your bow buries in
the back of the wave in front, and 9 times out of 10 you don't hit it
directly straight on so the boat slews round 45 or even in extreme
circumstances 90 degrees to the intended direction of travel." Although I
have never gone a full 90 degrees, I have gone past 45.
You forgot to add that sometimes you do these little rolls and you can't
find the water with your blade.
Cordially,
Charlesb
Charles Carroll
Just one more quick thought before I go sculling.
When the bow buries and continues to go under it pulls the stern up and out
of the water, and as a result the skeg also comes out and the shell loses
whatever traction it had.
This is what David Lay likes so much about the deep-Vee bow design of Carl's
shells. He says that this design brings the bow up, and thus keeps the stern
down and the skeg buried. From experience I can tell you that Carl's boat
tracks very well in water where 24s and Aeros tend to lose their traction.
As an afterthought I probably should add that Carl's boats are also longer
than the above mentioned shells. Does also might explain why they tend to
track so well.
Cordially,
Charles
Mike Sullivan
"Charles Carroll" <charles...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6vj9q0F...@mid.individual.net...
> Jake,
>
> Just one more quick thought before I go sculling.
>
> When the bow buries and continues to go under it pulls the stern up and
> out of the water, and as a result the skeg also comes out and the shell
> loses whatever traction it had.
An Aero will completely bury if you catch a wave right,
it floats so it'll pop up again, but I've been knocked loose
from the boat. When I feel my bow "pearling" I'll pause
my stroke and shift my slide/weight to stern and get
the bow up floating again before I drive the next stroke.
A single wherry will bob on top of just about anything
but breaking surf.
A double wherry will flounder with two rowers fairly
readily in 1/2 foot wind chop.
Caroline Smith
> that they move through the water differently from other boats I have
> sculled.
I don't think I've spent much time in a CD since university, and that one
was ancient and not well looked after but lovely to row.
I've spent the past few years using whatever the club has to spare at the
time... anything from new Swifts to 13 year old Etons and some peculiar
purple thing that is older than me and bends a lot. With weight ranges from
50kg to 75kg! I just can't wait to have a boat that is the right size for
me, has the right size shoes (VERY important!!), I can rig just right, and I
don't have to share!
It's going to be called Indulgence... because it is!
C
(10 days out of plaster and already walking with no crutches. Next stop, the
gym...)
Mike De Petris
> I just can't wait to have a boat that is the right size for
> me, has the right size shoes (VERY important!!), I can rig just right, and I
> don't have to share!
and then you'll realize that when you have such a boat, you'll have
just changed from athlete to veteran :)
Caroline Smith
>> me, has the right size shoes (VERY important!!), I can rig just right,
>> and I
>> don't have to share!
>
> and then you'll realize that when you have such a boat, you'll have
> just changed from athlete to veteran :)
I think I managed to bypass "athlete" entirely!!
Mike De Petris
wrote:
"athlete" is a mental attitude
Caroline Smith
>> > just changed from athlete to veteran :)
>>
>> I think I managed to bypass "athlete" entirely!!
>
> "athlete" is a mental attitude
Then I definitely bypassed it ;)
Mike De Petris
never overestimate :O)
frit...@googlemail.com
> Other than Eurodiffusions and MPShttp://web.archive.org/web/20070319191632/http://www.jmf-yole.com/
> (This company called JMF yoles made a nice looking FISA single called
> Resyst, but the site has now gone- hence it can only be reached by web
> archiving) I also recall that JMF had a section on his site with plans
> to build a stitch and glue plywood FISA spec single, but I cant find
> it any more, which is unfortunate. It had a wooden wing rigger, with
> instructions on how to build that too!
> Jake.
I'm adding this here to an old thread that's one of mine anyway so I
can be sure of finding the info again!
I've recently discovered that the DIY FISA spec coastal scull was not
at the JMF website but the MGM one, another three lettered French boat
designer, hence my confusion- http://www.m-g-m.fr/
Wondering whether my boatbuilding skills will be up for building one
of these and fettling it in time for Plymouth in October...?
Not sure about the wooden wing rigger on closer inspection! Looks
bendy! Or if not bendy- heavy. Probably more likely to see if I could
get hold of a secondhand aluminium or carbon one off a wrecked river
scull and just epoxy in the apropriate lugs in the apropriate places
in the deck/hull for it...
Mike De Petris
> I'm adding this here to an old thread that's one of mine anyway so I
> can be sure of finding the info again!
> I've recently discovered that the DIY FISA spec coastal scull was not
> at the JMF website but the MGM one, another three lettered French boat
> Wondering whether my boatbuilding skills will be up for building one
> of these and fettling it in time for Plymouth in October...?
> Not sure about the wooden wing rigger on closer inspection! Looks
> bendy! Or if not bendy- heavy. Probably more likely to see if I could
> get hold of a secondhand aluminium or carbon one off a wrecked river
> scull and just epoxy in the apropriate lugs in the apropriate places
> in the deck/hull for it...
in the while I'm looking for a way to use a competitive boat in
Plymouth, so let me know if you can finish one for me in time too :-)
Jonathan Wright
difficult to tell. If it's plywood then it could be stitch & glue and so
relatively quick.... so I hear! (I've no experience)
So, if you do build one, would you document it so the rest of us know how to
do one for ourselves?
Thanks!
<frit...@googlemail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:d43bb5bc-38d4-4560...@p11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
jake....@rya.org.uk
> The plans page make it look as if the boats made of flat plywood but it's
> difficult to tell. If it's plywood then it could be stitch & glue and so
> relatively quick.... so I hear! (I've no experience)
>
> So, if you do build one, would you document it so the rest of us know how to
> do one for ourselves?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
> >> Other than Eurodiffusions and
> >> MPShttp://web.archive.org/web/20070319191632/http://www.jmf-yole.com/
> >> (This company called JMF yoles made a nice looking FISA single called
> >> Resyst, but the site has now gone- hence it can only be reached by web
> >> archiving) I also recall that JMF had a section on his site with plans
> >> to build a stitch and glue plywood FISA spec single, but I cant find
> >> it any more, which is unfortunate. It had a wooden wing rigger, with
> >> instructions on how to build that too!
> >> Jake.
>
> > I'm adding this here to an old thread that's one of mine anyway so I
> > can be sure of finding the info again!
> > I've recently discovered that the DIY FISA spec coastal scull was not
> > at the JMF website but the MGM one, another three lettered French boat
> > Wondering whether my boatbuilding skills will be up for building one
> > of these and fettling it in time for Plymouth in October...?
> > Not sure about the wooden wing rigger on closer inspection! Looks
> > bendy! Or if not bendy- heavy. Probably more likely to see if I could
> > get hold of a secondhand aluminium or carbon one off a wrecked river
> > scull and just epoxy in the apropriate lugs in the apropriate places
> > in the deck/hull for it...
Yes, it's stitch and glue. Same as the ubiqutous Mirror Dinghy and
similar. Only problem is that makes it hard chine instead of round
chines which makes it a little bit less efficient (More skin friction
for a given ammount of bouyancy.
Looks relatively easy to build, probably easier than a Mirror and a
good number of people built those back in the 60s.