Worsening erg times?

[Alex]

My son has been rowing for 3 years, and he has gotten into terrific shape. However, he has been getting personal *worsts* on his 2k erg times. I am completely perplexed, and do not know what could possibly explain this. He is on his school's crew team, and rarely misses a practice, and his crew mates are all getting better, but for some reason he is getting worse. He tells me the coaches tell him he has good technique on the water, but with lowering erg times, I fear he will start to get demoted. He is not doing extra workouts, so I don't think it is overtraining, which is something I have found reading around. Any theories or suggestions?

[Phil]

On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 5:08:22 AM UTC+1, Alex wrote:
> My son has been rowing for 3 years, and he has gotten into terrific shape. However, he has been getting personal *worsts* on his 2k erg times. I am completely perplexed, and do not know what could possibly explain this. He is on his school's crew team, and rarely misses a practice, and his crew mates are all getting better, but for some reason he is getting worse. He tells me the coaches tell him he has good technique on the water, but with lowering erg times, I fear he will start to get demoted. He is not doing extra workouts, so I don't think it is overtraining, which is something I have found reading around. Any theories or suggestions?

Motivation?

[martinr...@gmail.com]

If your son is training hard and he is getting improvements in other areas then a slower 2km score is ok for awhile. You cant expect a pb all the time. If the focus is on the 2km ergo score then the chances are other areas will suffer. Have other things changed is he eating well and fuelling himself with food and water to meet the energy demands. Is he getting enough sleep? Has he been doing any extra college work or been out or up socialising more? Is he being put under more pressure from other sources? Has he got exams or other academic tests coming up which might be worrying him? There are so many different reasons why his 2km ergo is getting slower. I wouldn't worry to much if he is able to lift heavier weights for example, are the times on the water getting faster? Are circuit training sessions getting better? If you are training very hard then you cant expect to be getting a pb every time. Has the volume or intensity of your sons training been increased recently? As this will also have an effect. I would forget doing 2km pieces on the ergo for a while for training. Instead do some of the following instead 10 x 1 min flat out 1 min rest in between 8 x 2min flat out 2 min rest. Do some pieces slightly longer at a slightly slower 2km target split say 3 x 2500m/ 3 x 10min with 10 min rest in between. Then instead of trying to do a 2km personal best again do some 2km pieces say 4 x 2km with 8 min rest in between, various ways of doing these for example if a 2km pb of 6.30 then try to do all the pieces within 7 min for each one. Do some at differnt rates either a low rate for a whole piece or stepped rate through it start at rate 20 and each 2 min take the rate up by 2 strokes per minute with the split time getting faster by a similar amount.

This could be 20/22/24/26, 22/24/26/28, 24/26/28/30, 26/28/30/32

Do a similar one by split time getting faster with each 2 min first one might be 1:58, 1:56, 1:54, 1:52 and the last piece being 1:48, 1:46, 1:44, 1:42. Work back from the fastest 2km split your son has done and that last split should be 4-5 seconds slower.

There are so many different sessions you can do. And im sure you will get a lot of different suggestions as to what he can do, each one will be a good one if it is in a well structured training program. another suggestion is to put in the time for your sons last 2km ergo, then tape up the rest of the display so that he can only see the time and at the end see what the distance covered is. Over the winter the focus might have been on endurance or techniques so 2kms can get slower during this time.

Have a look at the overall picture has there been any significant changes to his daily life when he last did his best 2km ergo? At what time of year did he do this and what was his training when he produced this?

I hope some of or even a little bit of this is useful and helpful.

[eveshamr...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 5:08:22 AM UTC+1, Alex wrote:

> My son has been rowing for 3 years, and he has gotten into terrific shape. However, he has been getting personal *worsts* on his 2k erg times. I am completely perplexed, and do not know what could possibly explain this. He is on his school's crew team, and rarely misses a practice, and his crew mates are all getting better, but for some reason he is getting worse. He tells me the coaches tell him he has good technique on the water, but with lowering erg times, I fear he will start to get demoted. He is not doing extra workouts, so I don't think it is overtraining, which is something I have found reading around. Any theories or suggestions?

Going to hard in the long rows this sounds like the case, lots of posts here about it - http://www.rowingillustrated.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=45&sid=6de2e4779040fc2abc1ee4f67f32d6e5

[Carl]

On 02/04/2014 05:08, Alex wrote:
> My son has been rowing for 3 years, and he has gotten into terrific shape. However, he has been getting personal *worsts* on his 2k erg times. I am completely perplexed, and do not know what could possibly explain this. He is on his school's crew team, and rarely misses a practice, and his crew mates are all getting better, but for some reason he is getting worse. He tells me the coaches tell him he has good technique on the water, but with lowering erg times, I fear he will start to get demoted. He is not doing extra workouts, so I don't think it is overtraining, which is something I have found reading around. Any theories or suggestions?
>

There are all sorts of reasons why a youngster's performance on
something as blindingly dead & dull as an erg might fall off. After all
who, if intelligent & in their right mind, enjoys beating themselves up
for a better number on a stupid machine ;) ? The mind can wander, or
simply subvert the exercise at a sub-conscious level. Who knows, he
might have other things on his mind, & maybe some of them have nothing
to do with erging.

The sad fact of today's rowing is that everyone trains so much on ergs.
They can end up rowing as if on ergs - i.e. badly. But coaches don't
get blamed for selecting erg monsters - even though some of them prove
to be incorrigible boat-stoppers.

Rowing performance requires a mix of motivation, strength, fitness &,
very important, technique. On a standard fixed-head erg you can't
simulate the look & feel of good rowing technique, although you may or
may not be able to make a good transition between boat & machine.

One outstanding example of the somewhat insecure relationship between
erg performance & boat-moving form was the famous German (DDR) sculler,
Thomas Lange. He would not have been selected on the basis of his erg
scores, he wasn't huge, yet he was a wonderful boat-mover & perhaps the
most successful sculler in history.

Ergs tend to measure the size of the dog in the fight, not the fight in
that dog. Is your lad as heavy as his crewmates &, if not, does coach
scale his performance to his weight? Has he recently undergone a growth
spurt - which can have all sorts of side-effects?

Last question: does he feel undue pressure to perform? I see too many
great juniors quit rowing before becoming seniors, either because it
simply ain't fun, or they no longer see the point (a bit saner than the
rest of us?), or they acquire subtle or more evident injuries (the
rowing climate is deeply insensitive to the injuries it can cause,
especially on ergs to the knees & lower back, & can sometimes treat
those its training injures as personal failures rather than as system
failures).

Life is about more than rowing (most of us rowers find that hard to
believe....). I recall attending a great clarinettist's
concert/lecture, given to a mix of adults & youngsters. One girl asked
him: "Mr Brymer, how much practice should I be doing?" He replied by
asking her how good she wanted to be - & then told her that, if she
wanted to be that good, then she'd do an awful lot of practice, & do it
well, but the choice was entirely hers. To do "well" at anything you do
have to be somewhat obsessive, & it is slightly deranged that we rowers
so much want to be selected for our crew, or squad, & then to win.

I'm sure that we wish your son every success that he wants for himself.

Cheers -
Carl

--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
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Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells

[sully]

On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 9:08:22 PM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
> My son has been rowing for 3 years, and he has gotten into terrific shape. However, he has been getting personal *worsts* on his 2k erg times. I am completely perplexed, and do not know what could possibly explain this. He is on his school's crew team, and rarely misses a practice, and his crew mates are all getting better, but for some reason he is getting worse. He tells me the coaches tell him he has good technique on the water, but with lowering erg times, I fear he will start to get demoted. He is not doing extra workouts, so I don't think it is overtraining, which is something I have found reading around. Any theories or suggestions?

overtraining doesn't come from quantity as much as stacking up intensity on top of intensity. Without seeing the specifics, there's no way to tell if he is indeed overtrained, but in US HS's and colleges, there's way too much emphasis on interval intense erg work and I believe it hinders rather than enhances their athletic development. There is short term reward, for sure, as kids will learn to push themselves and there is rapid improvement with this sort of intensity, but the base to improve upon is too small.

That said, it's an ignorant response on my part given I don't know what the program's doing.

As a junior in HS, your son may be going through a growth spurt, and you want to double check his eating and sleep habits. Some of the junior teams are rowing at unholy hours in the morning, yet school and social commitments keep them up late. Kids in the beginning of a growth spurt will gain weight, get sluggish and tired, you can train through it successfully but not necessarily perform well.

And yes, these are social commitments and they are as important for a young man's development as training and bookwork.

Kids at that age are often counted on to handle their own meals, and they do a bad job of it, they'll skip meals not feeling hungry at the time, saying they don't feel so good, when the meal is exactly what they need to feel better, a mild sort of hypoglycemia.

So go through that checklist.

Now you'll think I'm nuts. Does he care whether he stays in the first boat?
he may not, but may not want to admit it to you.

Give him strong permission to not row after this year. He shouldn't quit the year, but just not go out next year. Urge him to try some other sports. Rowing is not a condition of being a wonderful and successful kid growing into an adult. Kids really benefit from a physical training regimen

I think sports and academics are an ideal mix, but modern sports are too specialized, kids get mentally stale. He can run cross country, swim team, soccer, wrestle, track, and I think gain athletically and in his development.

If the kid ran distance in track and ran cross country season, and trained at running for a year, swam on the swim team in the winter (even if he's a lousy swimmer), that would be good to improve at, and would be a better athletic base for college rowing (if interested) than pounding on an erg.

Here's an idea. Take your son on a 8 day bike trip over spring break. Talk to the coach, tell him it's absolutely fine to demote him to the bottom of the rung, he'll come back to the team and fill in where he can help. Then
ride a 500 mile ride through the Southwest US. Drive to a town, park the car for a week and go through the canyonlands. He can bring a buddy. Maybe it's too late?

As a dad, take the long view, your job is to make sure he has choices in life, not to make those choices.