Slade Rowing Boats
Jared Carter
experience with these? They look interesting, but I'm a little wary of
buying a boat from a startup company based in South Africa of all places.
It would make service a little tough to say the least.
Iain Langridge
more - Paul Slade posts on this group regularly!
Iain
"Jared Carter" <JaredCa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ifYkb.8572$PZ1....@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
Henning Lippke
> experience with these?
No experience, just a remark:
See the fin:
http://www.sladerowing.co.za/images/small_fin.jpg
Isn't this shape of fin catching all types of debris floating around? I
know of some people who have replaced their 'state-of-the-art'-fin on
another make just because they hated to go for a full stop and beyond to
get rid of the grass hanging around their fin.
-HL
jevandepol
in use for this period. The boat is extremely stiff and very well finished
(as you might have seen in Boston)
I have bought the boat only on the design and the description of the way
Paul was planning to build the boat. I can say, Paul stood up for everything
he has said.
As this was one of the very first heavy weight singles to be build out of
this mould, we have had a lot of contact about some parts. Paul has proven
to be very responsive and service minded.
Henning's remark is a little off track. It might be true that debris can
catch on at the fin. Though I have rowed the boat under very different
circumstances it has never been a real problem. The fin does excellent work
on the standard 2K track. Basically that is what counts. If you are rowing
under varying circumstances you might consider a different fin system. For a
2K or a Head race I would definitely leave the fin as it is.
The most important fact of this boat is the ease to keep the boat at a good
cruising speed. Though I am not a good enough sculler to proof that the boat
is faster then most makes, I have the very distinct feeling (based on speed)
that it might be the fastest or at least one of the fastest designs
available. As I have rowed many makes and designs over the years I know
approximately my speed in these boats. The Vision is not the fastest
sprinter (it won't jump out of the water at the start as a X1 f.e.), within
a few strokes it is on cruising speed.
Very important to keep in mind is to concentrate on technique. As Vision
keeps gliding towards the catch (no rocking), the catch should be well
prepared, smooth and rather quick.
For many people the speed won't be the decisive factor. The quality
(stiffness, finish) is absolutely top. The wing is very stiff (I row the
carbon version).
In terms of value for money few, if any, can compete.with any boatbuilder.
Materials used, and process, are top. The transport is not such a big
problem. It is a bit more costly and time consuming, but still the consumer
price is competative.
Repairs on singles are hardly done within the mould. If this (seldomly) is
necessary you might consider the boat a totall loss anyway. As the virtual
frame in the boat makes it very sturdy any standard repair method should do
the job, if necessary. Most repairs on singles are on the bow, saxboards and
skinn. So servicing should not be a real problem. Not different then for an
Empacher or such.
I would not be surprised to see Paul's boats in World or Olympic finals
soon.
Hans
"Henning Lippke" <nor...@usenet.org> schreef in bericht
news:bn1ts9$sgf0f$1...@ID-122207.news.uni-berlin.de...
Katy Cameron
> buying a boat from a startup company based in South Africa of all places.
Oh I don't know, if you lived in South Africa it would be a perfectly
good place to buy a boat from I'd imagine...
Warwick Chapman
Why "of all places"?
Walter Martindale
It's a good thing for SA to have a good boat builder - imagine the folks
in Johannesburg or Pretoria trying to get an Empacher, Ayling, or a BBG
serviced...
The good thing about composite material boats, is that any competent
auto panel repair that works with composite automobile bodies can do
surface repair, and parts can be shipped just about anywhere in the world.
Walter
>
>
Regardt van de Vyver
I'm the proud and happy owner of a heavy weight Vision for the past 7
months.
Paul's response time to questions and concerns are generally good and his
boat construction is some of the best you will find anywhere.
While Paul's shop is admittedly a startup he has some years of previous
experience under other boat builders. His composite skills are some of the
best around, I've seen an aeronautical engineer or two gawk at the quality
of his workmanship.
I will not go into the reasoning behind his unique hull design - that is for
him to comment on. I can say that the boat "feels" great. A lazy sculler
such as myself must however pay attention to technique as my boat, Garfield,
can be a tad unforgiving. Not the fastest out the blocks but it just keeps
on running...running...running without too much effort !
Until you've rowed it you cannot begin to understand just how tangibly
different it is to row - different in a GOOD way.
The only negative comment I have at the moment is that my lard arse is a tad
heavy for my boat ;-( ... but that's my concern not the boat's *grin*
If you'd like more info please drop me a mail, I'll reply where I can.
Regards,
Regardt van de Vyver
Andrew Trimble
> Hello Jared,
>
> I'm the proud and happy owner of a heavy weight Vision for the past 7
> months.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Regardt van de Vyver
Hmm, high quality singles, exceptionally loyal fan base, poster to
RSR...
It's finally happened. Carl has cloned himself to crack open the
South African market.
God help us all now, where next?
A
Dudley Dix
I thought that this is a good time for me to post some comments as the
designer of the Vision boats built by Slade Rowing.
There have been some observations in previous posts about the need to
concentrate on technique when rowing the Vision, the impression that
it keeps on running and that it is not the quickest out of the
starting blocks. Those observations tie in very well with my
expectations as given to Paul Slade before he launched the first boat,
so I should explain them.
Those are characteristics purposely designed into the boat. We cannot
achieve slow speed efficiency for quick starts and also get high speed
efficiency for low effort once up to racing speed. Minimal time is
spent at low speed during the first few strokes, so design for high
speed efficiency is the logical route to follow.
I am not a rower, so I had no pre-conceived ideas of what a
competition rowing shell should or should not be, nor how they feel
when rowed. I was interested only in what would make it go fast. With
Paul's assistance, I looked at a few of the other boats available and
took basic measurements so that I could establish basic
characteristics. Paul also gave me videos of the Sydney Olympics
rowing events, so I was able to study how these boats behaved under
top level racing conditions. From this I established areas of hull
design that I felt could be significantly improved for gains in boat
speed.
This resulted in my proposal to Paul for a boat significantly
different from other boats in this market. Paul put his future in my
hands and gave me a free hand with the design. He said only that he
would like it to be competitive against the best available and asked
me to draw a boat with style, to make it stand out from the crowd. In
designing and building a boat that is so different from the rest, we
both took risks. We felt it worth the risk because advances don't come
from following what has gone before.
What I drew was sure to be faster according to my own personal
theories, however these were untested before the first Vision was
launched. All reports from those who have rowed Paul's boats confirm
that they behave in line with what I expected.
The reason for the need to concentrate on technique is that these
hulls have lower drag than more traditional shapes when up to full
speed. They slow down less during the recovery phase. At the time that
the blades are re-entering the water for the next stroke, the boat is
moving faster. If the technique is not adjusted to allow for the
higher speed then the blades will not enter the water cleanly. A
change of technique becomes habit through repitition, so it should
only be necessary to concentrate on technique until the time that the
habit of the new technique replaces the habit of the old.
Regards,
Dudley Dix
"Regardt van de Vyver" <rega...@icon.co.za> wrote in message news:<VtOdnR7G6pE...@is.co.za>...
>
Ewoud Dronkert
> The reason for the need to concentrate on technique is that these
> hulls have lower drag than more traditional shapes when up to full
> speed. They slow down less during the recovery phase.
Can you draw a graph of regular boat speed vs. time or distance or oar
angle, and superimpose how speed of your boat might differ?
Thanks!
Ewoud
Neil Wallace
"Dudley Dix" <d...@dixdesign.com> wrote in message
news:ca8eda64.03102...@posting.google.com...
snip
>design for high speed efficiency is the logical route to follow.
> Sydney Olympics rowing events, so I was able to study how these boats
behaved under
> top level racing conditions.
> The reason for the need to concentrate on technique is that these
> hulls have lower drag than more traditional shapes when up to full
> speed. They slow down less during the recovery phase. At the time that
> the blades are re-entering the water for the next stroke, the boat is
> moving faster.
So to summise, you have designed this shell to be optimum at a Stroke rate
of 34-36 (or perhaps higher), with perfect bladework.
not the boat for me then :o(
The design is radically different, I'll accept that, and Paul Slade has the
reputation of a craftsman (he is a buddy of CD I believe..)
I also accept that Yachting types are way ahead of rowers in the analysis of
their kit (ask Greg Searle!), and I know that is where you have come from.
What I don't get is how a boat can be designed for any particular speed
range. Please can you give more details?
Neil
William R. Platt
"Neil Wallace" <rowing...@NOSPAM.virgin.net> wrote in message
news:bn5knm$lvl$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
SNIP
>
> What I don't get is how a boat can be designed for any particular speed
> range. Please can you give more details?
>
> Neil
>
>
Well, Neil, that is *everything* in ship (boat etc) design :-)
Regards,
Bill
Dudley Dix
boat speed vs. time or distance or oar angle, and superimpose how
for a particular stroke rate.
I am not a rower, so you guys are becoming way too technical for me to
answer. Even if I could supply the info for the Vision, it is
meaningless without similar data for other boats tested in identical
conditions by the same testing agency.
All that I was interested in was reducing drag in the general
operating speed range of the boat. I designed the hull and left the
technical aspects of how to row it to the experts.
The boats that you guys row don't move through the water at a steady
speed. The rower moves at a fairly constant speed relative to the
water but the hull is sliding back and forth under the rower (not the
rower sliding back and forth in the boat). That means that the hull
must be efficient over a wide range of speeds. The Vision is not only
for top-end competition rowers, it is also efficient at lower speeds.
It is only at very low speeds, such as the first few strokes after a
standing start, that it has higher drag.
Slim hulls can be designed to be efficient over a wide range of
speeds, unlike beamy hulls that tend to be efficient over a narrow
band of speed/length. I designed various characteristics into the
hull, with the prime purpose of modifying the way that it moves
through the water. These measures appear to have been successful.
I am not going to explain what I drew that is different nor what my
reasoning was. Anybody looking at a Vision hull can see that it is
different in a few respects from other singles. The finer details of
the hull shape are confidential between Paul Slade and myself, which
is as it should be between consultant and client.
I drew them to be fast, Paul builds them to be fast. It is for the
owners to row them fast.
"Neil Wallace" <rowing...@NOSPAM.virgin.net> wrote in message news:<bn5knm$lvl$1...@sparta.btinternet.com>...
>
Longrow
Yacht design has much to offer rowing and Dix is a world class yacht
designer.
All yachts/powerboats ( and even cars) have design speed why not
sculls??
Paul Slade is a fantastically helpful guy and his boats are neat. I
can understand some conerns about shipping to UK
"Neil Wallace" <rowing...@NOSPAM.virgin.net> wrote in message news:<bn5knm$lvl$1...@sparta.btinternet.com>...
Walter Martindale
>(snip)
>
I am not going to explain what I drew that is different nor what my
>reasoning was. Anybody looking at a Vision hull can see that it is
>different in a few respects from other singles. The finer details of
>the hull shape are confidential between Paul Slade and myself, which
>is as it should be between consultant and client.
>
>I drew them to be fast, Paul builds them to be fast. It is for the
>owners to row them fast.
>
>
well said...
Walter
Warwick Chapman
You took the words right out of my mouth Walter...
Carl Douglas
May I add my bit?
I have high regard for Paul Slade as a thoughtful, concerned & competent
boatbuilder. I wish him all success.
That Paul went to Dudley Dix for his design, rather than flop-copying AN
Other's shape, does him great credit. Shell-building abounds with
copyists who rip off the products of others (themselves often rip-offs!)
& then make outrageous claims for the effectiveness of "their" products,
often accompanied by revealingly inept techno-babble.
As regards hull drag vs velocity:
Every displacement-type hull (which covers all rowing shells) has an
optimum velocity range. If you want to go at a lower speed you should
use a shorter, tubbier boat than if you want to go faster, because at
its optimum speed it has a lower overall drag than the boat designed for
a higher speed, but at the faster boat's design speed the tubby boat
will have the greater drag. That's just a fact of life.
As regards repair of imported shells:
In this world market most shells are used far from where they were
built. Considering we all (except coxes) go backwards, & look round less
often that is good for our health, shell damage is relatively rare (&
too much damage results from inept coxing rather than failure of rowers
to look round). There are many good repairers who may be closer to a
damaged boat than the builder, & a conscientious boat builder is ready
to assist the owner to resolve any damage issues by close co-operation
with a local repairer. If it comes to the worst, it isn't that
expensive to freight a boat back to its maker on another continent -
provided you know how to pack for safe shipment :-).
Finally:
All boats add drag to your motion through the water. The best a good
designer can do is to shave a bit off that drag. Many crews do their
level (or uneven) best to increase that drag way above the differences
between shells by the way they row. So there are no fast boats, only
fast crews ;^)
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JY, UK
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 Fax: -466550
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
Ed
that I have with many of the major single manufacturers is the
"teeter-totter" effect. You can watch race after race with people
rowing Hudsons and note the fact that many have the riggers as far
into the bow as they can go. This short sterned effect has happened
for years. A coach in our club has made a living out of drilling
holes in new Hudsons to pust the rower towards the bow. Hudson does
have a "fast" boat, but I wish that they would listen a little bit
more to the rowers and coaches.
Ed
lornast...@gmail.com
This is not a reply but a request: Are you able to give me Paul Slade's contact details? My husband bought a single scull from Paul in 2005. It was originally designed for a Dutch racer. Due to immediate and unforeseen circumstances we were unable to enjoy it - it has not been on the water since delivery. Regards,
Lorna Strombeck
Henry Law
> Dear 'Editor'(?)
> This is not a reply but a request: Are you able to give me Paul Slade's contact details?
more information and thought I'd post it here).
This page http://techfolio.com/PaulSlade suggests that his rowing
business ceased in 2005, but that he himself is very much around. Maybe
you could use some of the information on that page to get in touch with him.
--
Henry Law Manchester, England