Vortex
Henning Lippke
now that I've decided to buy a boat, I also need some oars.
I've already chosen Dreissigacker to provide me with new sculls, but now I
have to think about the details.
One is the vortex edge, which is available at no additional cost.
C2 says, there's no disadvantage in performance. Which implies that it also
has no advantage.
What is your opinion, should I go for them?
-HL
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Ryan Morris
also
> has no advantage.
How do you figure? It just means it isn't worse, doesn't mean it's not
better. Go for them, they say you can't lose.
"Henning Lippke" <use...@sculling.de> wrote in message
news:a94q9u$co4n$1...@ID-122207.news.dfncis.de...
Horse
This season just past the crew that I coached used Dreissigacker sweep oars
with the C2 vortex tips.
Even if the tips don't offer any advantage, you can turn the blade spoon
down, so if you boat from a concrete pontoon, the blade itself is protected.
As to if they are worth it? I would personally go for them - they look
hi-tech, cool and there may be some physical advantage, if not
psychological.
Horse
"Henning Lippke" <use...@sculling.de> wrote in message
news:a94q9u$co4n$1...@ID-122207.news.dfncis.de...
Alex Taylor
do bother? I've heard they're very fetching ;o)
Alex
"Horse" <hor...@beer.com> wrote in message
news:a95anm$3eq$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au...
Nick Suess
"Alex Taylor" <adnt...@ntlworld.com.no.spam.please> wrote in message
news:IEqt8.10761$C21.2...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Don't bother! How about buy some of the emporer's new clothes with it if
you
> do bother? I've heard they're very fetching ;o)
>
> Alex
And that returns to the question I asked a year ago, when I ventured the
notion of just the slightest possibilty that vortex tips might be the
emperor's new clothes, and asked all my rsr playmates for their opinions on
this. At that time, C2 had on display masses of fancy diagrams and info to
tell us how they would give better performance, and rowers were lining up in
droves to put their oars through the "tips on machine". So Henning's comment
that "C2 says there's no disadvantage in performance" appears to be
something of a radical backtrack from those earlier performance claims. Just
because my surname is Suess doesn't necessarily mean I have "the Sneetches"
in mind, but maybe like Sylvester McMonkey McBean they will now offer a
"tips-off machine", and it will be a matter of
"on again off again, in again out again
those poor screaming rowers went round and about again
and when every last cent of their money was spent
the fix-it-up chappie packed up and he went"
Henning, we all love you with or without a star on your belly. So why not
save yourself the worry, and accept that you'd be far better off buying
Braca oars, that don't make any fancy claims about tips, but just give great
performance and have outstandingly long service life.
Nick Suess
Scull Success
Braca Oars distributor
Bayswater, Western Australia
Jim Dwyer
company is top notch. They replaced a pair of sculls for me last season
because a blade was warped about 1/2 a cm! You will still have to pull hard
even though you have the vortex tips!
Jim
"Henning Lippke" <use...@sculling.de> wrote in message
news:a94q9u$co4n$1...@ID-122207.news.dfncis.de...
Steve Paulson
>snip
>
>And that returns to the question I asked a year ago,....snip
> At that time, C2 had on display masses of fancy diagrams and
> info to tell us how they would give better performance, and
> rowers were lining up in droves to put their oars through
> the "tips on machine". So Henning's comment that "C2 says
> there's no disadvantage in performance" appears to be something
> of a radical backtrack from those earlier performance claims.
>snip
Look's like all the same diagrams and claims are still up
on the C2 website.
Steve
Nick Morrell
Alex Taylor wrote:
>
> Don't bother! How about buy some of the emporer's new clothes with it if you
> do bother? I've heard they're very fetching ;o)
>
Ah, but didn't the Emporer spend rather a lot on his new clothes? If you
are offered them for free and they are guaranteed to be no worse than
the old style, then why not? You've got nothing to lose, and if they
protect the blades then you're onto a winner, even if they don't make
you go faster.
Nick
Nick Suess
"Nick Morrell" <N.C.M...@durham.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3CB6FDA8...@durham.ac.uk...
Sorry, am I getting this right? Concept's much vaunted "go faster" vortex
tip is now being promoted as a "go no slower" stick-on tip protector. Is
that it? Well, I do declare! Was all that hype just about a stick-on bumper?
Might this possibly be interpreted as an admission that the regular blade
tips are prone to damage and need extra protection?
Remember that there is now a leading brand of oars out there that also goes
every bit as fast AND has a blade with in-built resistance to impact and
delamination. This is because it uses a totally different method of
manufacture, is completely sealed against water penetration of the blade
core, and the impact resistance is not just on the tip, but all round,
including the top edge. This of course becomes the leading edge when
feathered, where accidental impact is likely to occur, and which remains
unprotected by any vortex tip.
Henning Lippke
> Remember that there is now a leading brand of oars out there that also goes
> every bit as fast AND has a blade with in-built resistance to impact and
> delamination. This is because it uses a totally different method of
> manufacture, is completely sealed against water penetration of the blade
> core, and the impact resistance is not just on the tip, but all round,
> including the top edge. This of course becomes the leading edge when
> feathered, where accidental impact is likely to occur, and which remains
> unprotected by any vortex tip.
I had a look at some vortex edged blades at a club nearby, and they
look nice.
But I think they won't protect the blade in some accident, as you say.
They probably work better as a long-term protection against wearout,
caused by multiple landings. I bet every oar suffers from that, at
least the brands I've already seen here, including C2, Braca and
others. The easily replaced edges could have a nice advantage here.
If C2 would offer no vortexes, I would still go for them, for two
reasons:
Our C2 ours have proven (spell/grammar?) a lifetime of over 10 years,
and still work.
Second, and the most important at all, the 'interface', ie the
handles/grips fit my preferences. I've once used Braca in a race, and
they were very uncomfortable.
(my opinion, that doesn't mean that one or another brand is better in
general)
-HL
John Maxwell
in how they handle and how comfortable they are to row with.
Rowing with crokers is intuitive - they are simple extensions of your arms
and hands. You raise your arms - they catch, you push down - they extract.
No worry about blade depths or anything. The perfect blades for sculling or
sweep.
BTW i am not a croker dealer of any kind, just someone who has sculled with
a lot of different types (all C2s, most Crokers, Dreher BB and Apex,
Drakkar, Custom Carbon, Sutton XCELL and Empacher) and find the crokers to
be the best.
Regards,
John.
Henning Lippke <H_Li...@fast-net.de> wrote in message
news:f402fe11.02041...@posting.google.com...
Henning Lippke
> in how they handle and how comfortable they are to row with.
I'll take a second look at their informations, but I have no clue where I
could test them. Crokers are rare here. Because the comfort is the most
important thing (along with the durability, since oars aren't cheap) I would
like to test them before I buy. The oars will be exclusively used by me, so
the demands of stability are rather low.
-HL
John Maxwell
Try the following company - Croker's website says they are the German
distributors for their products:
Klaus Altena
Bootshandel/-Service/-Wartung
Dorfstraße 30
23911 Germany
Ph/Fax: +49 45414638
I would strongly recommend the S3 Droop Snoot blades - i have owned a pair
for a long time and love them, the quality of the finish and their
durability is brilliant. I also have purchased a pair of S2 Slicks, and they
are even nicer.
Try www.crokeroars.com for more info, or the company above.
Regards,
John.
John Maxwell
Werner Kahl- Die Ruderwerkstatt
Henri-Duffaut-Str. 17/19
D-35578 Wetzlar
Germany
Ph: (+49) 06441 77777
fax: (+49) 06411 975277
email: in...@ruderwerkstatt.com
website: www.ruderwerkstatt.com
Regards,
John
Henning Lippke
> distributors for their products:
>
> Klaus Altena
> Bootshandel/-Service/-Wartung
> Dorfstraße 30
> 23911 Germany
> Ph/Fax: +49 45414638
Cool, that's about 30 km from here. :-)
> I would strongly recommend the S3 Droop Snoot blades - i have owned a pair
> for a long time and love them, the quality of the finish and their
> durability is brilliant. I also have purchased a pair of S2 Slicks, and
they
> are even nicer.
Does Croker also have something like the black smooth grips C2 has? I love
them...
-HL
Rob Collings
The grips they seem to do at the moment are white ones that are moulded
to (sort of) fit around your fingers. Personally, I hate them. But then
you can always buy a pair of C2 grips. THe grips I've got (from Croker,
but I've seen C2s with similar ones) are blue and have ridges running
along the length. Very grippy. They blister your hands like buggery for
the first few weeks, but once you get a good set of callouses (mine are
just growing back) then they are great. Especially in wet weather.
Rob.
Tony Curran
calluses that get bigger as season progresses so use scalpel to remove them.
Tony
Ottawa RC
"Rob Collings" <R.P.Co...@durham.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3CBB3154...@durham.ac.uk...
Phate
love them to death. The older wooden handled one are still incredable. Our
newest set has a blue 'foam' type materal on the handles that is very good
to hold, give few blisters, and looks cool to boot! Only disadvatage I can
see is when they get compleatly drenched( I.E Heavy Rain/Rowing with the
novies in rough weather) they get slippery, not badly so, just enought to be
noticed. If you get some ma I personally recommend the M2
Superlights.....very nice oars. (BTW I'm talking as a sweep oar rower, if
they don't do M2 Superlights in sculling I dont know, and yes, they do have
a veriety of handles on sculling)
Phate
Nick Morrell
>
> Why dont you just buy crokers? no other blades can even come close to them
> in how they handle and how comfortable they are to row with.
>
> Rowing with crokers is intuitive - they are simple extensions of your arms
> and hands. You raise your arms - they catch, you push down - they extract.
> No worry about blade depths or anything. The perfect blades for sculling or
> sweep.
>
> BTW i am not a croker dealer of any kind, just someone who has sculled with
> a lot of different types (all C2s, most Crokers, Dreher BB and Apex,
> Drakkar, Custom Carbon, Sutton XCELL and Empacher) and find the crokers to
> be the best.
>
> Regards,
> John.
>
I have to admit that I've not had the opportunity to try many different
types of blades, but surely it is largely down to personal preference
(issues of longevity notwithstanding) which make you prefer? Just
because *you* happen to prefer Crokers (maybe because they suit your
specific style of rowing/sculling) doesn't necessarily mean that they
are going to be *my* fovourites does it? (In fact, the only crokers I've
used I hated, but that may be because they were much heavier than the
C2's I'm using now.)
Just my GBP0.02's worth.
Nick
John Maxwell
on the market by a comfortable 150g/pair
:P
John Maxwell
Nick Morrell <N.C.M...@durham.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3CBBE092...@durham.ac.uk...
felipe
winning boats at worlds for years. I wonder, now that there's a distributer in
the US, if they'll become ubiquitous. (Assuming, that is, that one thing that
affects frequency among world class boats is how easy it is to get a brand in a
given country. Not that the US is ubiquitous on the medals stand, obviously,
just that there are a lot of US rowers.)