What about the Stampfli single X1 shape ?
Froggy
I recently rowed a traditional Stampfli wooden single S1 shape. I
enjoyed it very much. I did not know if I went on faster than in an
Empacher, but the Stampfli seemed more responsive during the stroke,
despite it was a little heavier [I agree that a boat which seems
responsive is not necessarily faster than the one which seems to always
go on at the same speed]. I know that Stampfli boats are nowadays dated
for many people, but I think they still deserve to be considered
whereas bought.
I am considering the idea of buying a Stampfli single, and especially
the X1 shape. Stampfli explain this shape is based on drawings from the
Finnish Ship Technical Institute in Helsinki. This boat would be
original built for the famous 3 times Olympic Champion Pertti
Karpinnen. But as far as I can remember, on the few pictures I could
see, Karpinnen seemed to compete in the traditional S1 shape. After he
retired, I saw a picture where he was carrying an Empacher composite
boat.
Some years ago, the current Stampfli owner Melch Burgin told me that
the X1 shape was for sure faster. But this might be just an attempt for
relaunching sales when the traditional shape finds few customers.
I would like to know :
1) In which Stampfli shape Karpinnen used to compete
2) Is there beyond the RSR community somebody who rowed various shapes
(Stampfli, Empacher, VEB-BBG, CDRS,...) and can give a piece of advise
on the characteristics of the X1 shape (fastness, responsivity,
stability - easiness to row, how it performs in disturbed water, does
it go less straight than other boats, etc...).
M-A
I have an X1 Stampfli, 6 years old and of great sentimental value as my Mum
bought it for my 30th.
What I like about this boat is the way that it runs between strokes and the
momentum and swing that I can feel on the recovery. This hull shape is
supreme in flat water, calm wind conditions but I have had real difficulties
with it in a cross wind: frankly it has cost me a number of races at places
like Strathclyde Park where the wind direction is always perpendicular to
the course. My understanding is that, if you are moving a Stampfli X1 well
then you should see that about 6feet of the bow is surging out of the
water - that is a lot of boat to get slewed around in a wind and don't
forget that the wing rigger can act as a bit of a sail too. On the plus
side; it spins on a six-pence - but it's not too often that you get to do
races with a buoy turn in!
Despite all of that I do love my Stampfli but it's worth being aware of this
behaviour.
I recently tried both Empacher and a Filippi singles - both seem to run more
level between strokes (discouraging the rower "nodding" into the catch) and
suffer less from cross wind. The Filippi was more twitchy than the Empacher
but that might simply have been the conditions - also the Empacher I tried
had been modified with a fin that would have been more suitable on the QE2
so it went very straight! Don't forget that all of these manufacturers have
several different moulds so you need to seek out someone with views on boats
of the size that interest you.
I am going to Berlin to try a BBG 1x and 2x on Tuesday - they are very
different in dimensions to anything else on the market and I'm keen to
understand how those boats feel to scull - may be able to tell you some more
then.
Not sure how relevant my research will be for you as I am WLwt but happy to
share what I learn.
Best regards,
M-A
"Froggy" <muller...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:1163372347.7...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Froggy
Please read below:
> Interesting question.
>
> I have an X1 Stampfli, 6 years old and of great sentimental value as my Mum
> bought it for my 30th.
>
> What I like about this boat is the way that it runs between strokes and the
> momentum and swing that I can feel on the recovery. This hull shape is
> supreme in flat water, calm wind conditions but I have had real difficulties
> with it in a cross wind: frankly it has cost me a number of races at places
> like Strathclyde Park where the wind direction is always perpendicular to
> the course. My understanding is that, if you are moving a Stampfli X1 well
> then you should see that about 6feet of the bow is surging out of the
> water - that is a lot of boat to get slewed around in a wind and don't
> forget that the wing rigger can act as a bit of a sail too.
I suspected this drawback, as the bow is surging out of the water ! I
never rowed a plain wing rigger single ; people from BBG told me that
wind does not impact the wing. Did you experience balancing
difficulties linked to the wing (and not whole shell + body) ?
> On the plus side; it spins on a six-pence - but it's not too often that you get to do
> races with a buoy turn in!
Interesting: I would not have guessed it, even if it seems now logical,
due to the small bow.
> Despite all of that I do love my Stampfli but it's worth being aware of this
> behaviour.
>
> I recently tried both Empacher and a Filippi singles - both seem to run more
> level between strokes (discouraging the rower "nodding" into the catch) and
> suffer less from cross wind. The Filippi was more twitchy than the Empacher
> but that might simply have been the conditions - also the Empacher I tried
> had been modified with a fin that would have been more suitable on the QE2
> so it went very straight! Don't forget that all of these manufacturers have
> several different moulds so you need to seek out someone with views on boats
> of the size that interest you.
>
> I am going to Berlin to try a BBG 1x and 2x on Tuesday - they are very
> different in dimensions to anything else on the market and I'm keen to
> understand how those boats feel to scull - may be able to tell you some more
> then.
I visited the BBG plant some years ago, with other French & German
trainers. Someone asked if their boats were really better than the
Empachers. The answer was "there is no standard answer. Because of the
racing success of DDR crews using VEB boats, the state strongly
supported testing of new hull shapes to a level never seen before. Our
shapes are faster, but more difficult to row than the Empacher ones.
Thus some crews may be faster in an Empacher than in a VEB-BBG".
I very recently tried an entry level BBG single. Due to what I recalled
in the previous sentence, it should have been difficult to row. But I
felt the boat was incredibly level, just if I sat in an armchair. But
this could partly be caused by a shell more heavy than a true racing
one.
Concerning doubles, I tested a latvian V shaped boat which was probably
a copy of a VEB mould. Compared to an Empacher, we felt it difficult to
balance in rough water (the fin was also too small - more for a
single), but on flat water I felt we were on a rocket (which for our
pleasure was very responsive, whereas the Empacher runs very level) !
I would appreciate very much your feedback on BBG testing !
M-A
You asked about balance issues: I had always created a picture or idea in
my head that the wing was helpful in balancing, I thought of it like a
platform that I could keep level. My friend, Will, always teases me that
Stampfli singles are 'all very well if you want to scull an ergo' so I'd
just always assumed that the wing acted almost like stabilisers!! <-Yes
madness I know!
So I expected, when I tried the Empacher (standard aluminium riggers with
backstays), that I would find it much more difficult to balance, more
refined in all aspects - I can tell you that it was actually easier to
balance, especially around the catch where I usually feel precarious in the
Stampfli - at the time we were trying to fix a fault I'd developed of a
"nod" into the catch over my feet but as soon as I went into the Empacher I
lost the "nod" and was able to sit up and get my hands up and out without
developing tension in my arms or shoulders. Perhaps the motion of the
Stampfli surging in the bows actually was encouraging my fault... or maybe
I'm just blaming my equipment? ;-)
As to whether the wing, rather than the hull shape, has impacted the balance
I don't think so to be fair: my earlier comment about sails and cross winds
is more hearsay than actual experience.
Yes, the spinning the boat thing was a lot of fun - I made up heaps of time
on our club's long distance time trials each week!
I have to say lots of people have tried my Stampfli and ended up buying
one - I can think of 5 people immediately and one of those got rid of a
brand new Empacher buy one! Mine has raced successfully at WHR and HRR,
Nationals and elsewhere so it can't be a bad boat by any means.
I'll let you know how I get on tomorrow.
Best regards,
M-A
"Froggy" <muller...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:1163378944.9...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...