New International Starting Commands
Ronald K. Chen
"A new starting procedure for all international regattas was adopted. The
commands are now, first, a roll call of the crews (without the question
'ready?') followed by raising of the red flag and the command 'set,' and
after a clear pause 'go'. Once the roll call begins the starter will take no
further notice of any crew which indicates it is not ready or not straight.
These are important changes (especially the fact that raised hands will be
ignored). The new procedures will apply from 1st January 1994."
USRowing must now consider whether to adopt these procedures for our own
domestic regattas or keep the commands that we have now. Although we
would probably want to use these commands at national team trials, The
point has been raised that these new commands, which are obviously
intended to expedite the starting procedures, may not be the best
method for starting inexperienced crews at domestic events.
Opinions are gratefully solicited.
Ronald K. Chen
USRowing Judge-Referee Committee
Ronald K. Chen rc...@andromeda.rutgers.edu
Ass't Professor of Law Rutgers Law School, 15 Washington St.
(201) 648-5160 Newark, NJ 07102
David Simas
>From the latest issue of the FISA Bulletin:
>
>"A new starting procedure for all international regattas was adopted. The
>commands are now, first, a roll call of the crews (without the question
>'ready?') followed by raising of the red flag and the command 'set,' and
>after a clear pause 'go'. Once the roll call begins the starter will take no
>further notice of any crew which indicates it is not ready or not straight.
I don't understand this. What's the point calling roll if the race will start
regardless of whether all crews are ready and straight?
David S.
Ronald K. Chen
which the start will occur at a point that can be predicted by the cadence
of the preliminary commands, such that you can still adjust while the
commands are being given. A typical sequence would sound like this:
GREAT BRITAIN
USA
RUSSIA
FRANCE
CZECH
DENMARK
[flag up]
SET!
GO!!
fee...@nova.enet.dec.com
|>From the latest issue of the FISA Bulletin:
|>
|>"A new starting procedure for all international regattas was adopted. The
|>commands are now, first, a roll call of the crews (without the question
|>'ready?') followed by raising of the red flag and the command 'set,' and
|>after a clear pause 'go'. Once the roll call begins the starter will take no
|>further notice of any crew which indicates it is not ready or not straight.
|>These are important changes (especially the fact that raised hands will be
|>ignored). The new procedures will apply from 1st January 1994."
|>
|>
Why the roll call? Why don't they just count to 10 and say set go. I could
understand this if they would recognize hands during the roll call...for
instance once the roll call has passed over you, the hand would not be
recognized.
I wouldn't use this in most domestic events...it wouldn't work very well in
the lower level catagories.
-Jay
David Ploss
David Ploss Ploss Associates, Inc.
dpl...@world.std.com Northboro, MA
** The opinions expressed are my own and not the company's **
Robert Walton
At the risk of showing my age and politics -
Hell no, we won't go (to FISA rules)!
--
Robert P. Walton cs...@cleveland.freenet.edu
Clyde W Voigtlander
Ron Chen raised this issue, Dave Simas and Bob Walton responded,
and David Ploss was telecommunicationally inarticulate. Let me
add my voice.
FISA seems to be trying to eliminate the rower (crew) from the
important process of starting. This is in line with most of
their changes, i.e., the official (starter, referee, umpire,
whatever) is what is important to the race--what the rowers
feel, or are doing, is inconsequential.
As a starter (at local, regional, national-championship, and
national team/Olympic team trials), I believe that the FISA
proposal runs counter to good rowing, and more important, to
the best interests of rowers. Rowers have the right to know
(be informed) that the start is imminent; moreover, they have
the right to show their preparedness (or lack of the same),
via a polling procedure. Certainly, some crews/rowers take
advantage of the polling procedures to indulge in gamesmanship.
So be it. Any starter worth the name can control this. What
IS important is that every rower be equally prepared, under the
Rules of Racing, to make a fair start. The new FISA proposal
DOES NOT, in my opinion, provide for this.
I still contend that we made a mistake by moving away from the
French commands. I am not a Francophile, but in my experience,
the French commands (e.g., "Dartmouth, Prez?) cut across all
of the talk at the start and let rowers know that now, we were
were *serious* about starting. To further dilute the starting
procedure would be even a more egregious error.
Certainly, if FISA perserveres, I will use their form at national
team trials--in order to prepare rowers at that level for what
they must expect. However, I do not support any such action
that would burden domestic (USA) rowing. Bob Walton, now a
FISA referee summed it up much more succinctly: "Hell, no,
I won't go!" I fully concur, and call upon all who are interested
to let their voices be heard to USRA and the Judge-Referee
Committee.
--
C.W. Voigtlander
ai...@freenet.carleton.ca 72143...@compuserve.com
Et clamor meus ad te veniat
Mr Douglas MacFarlane
>
>
> |>From the latest issue of the FISA Bulletin:
> |>
> |>"A new starting procedure for all international regattas was adopted. The
> |>commands are now, first, a roll call of the crews (without the question
> |>'ready?') followed by raising of the red flag and the command 'set,' and
> |>after a clear pause 'go'. Once the roll call begins the starter will take no
> |>further notice of any crew which indicates it is not ready or not straight.
> |>These are important changes (especially the fact that raised hands will be
> |>ignored). The new procedures will apply from 1st January 1994."
> |>
> |>
>
> Why the roll call? Why don't they just count to 10 and say set go. I could
> understand this if they would recognize hands during the roll call...for
> instance once the roll call has passed over you, the hand would not be
> recognized.
Perhaps they don't recognize hands but they may spot if the crews are not
ready. It would seem stupid for the starter to say "set....go" if two crews
were pointing at each other.
>
> I wouldn't use this in most domestic events...it wouldn't work very well in
> the lower level catagories.
>
> -Jay
>
What is the starting procedure in the USA? In Scotland at the moment
after the call over, if any, the actual starting words are (from
memory - I don't have a copy of the rules here)
Attention (combined with raising the flag)......
Set...Go (combined with dropping the flag)
Between the attention and the set the started will pay attention to hands,
once they say "Set" then the start is for real this time. This seems to
work reasonably well. In severe the conditions there may be less attention
paid to hands than might happen on a calm day - but crews will be told this
if it is necessary.
There may be quite a pause between the "attention" and the "set" if crews
are moving round a bit until all the hands are down.
Douglas.
Ronald K. Chen
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I'm new to this internet thing & I'm just learning how to reply to
messages in newsgroups. I'll get better as we go along.
RE: the new starting commands
In Worcester, we use count down starts for every large race that we run.
It makes the start procedure consistent and smooth. The FISA system has
good intentions but there are some flaws.
1. Using country names as part of the count down will change the timing
of the start for each different heat or race. Counting down from 5 is
consistent no matter what.
2. Also, what happens if there are only 4 or 5 boats in a heat or rep?
The start is much shorter than with a full heat.
3. The intent is good but their implementation is questionable.
As for using the system in domestic regattas, the timing problem would be
worse with fairly long club or college names and the timing thing again.
An additional concern is remembering who is in what lane? To do it
right, there has to be a consistent pace. How are you going to remember
who is where from heat to heat and without looking at the start list once
you begin the count?
The start is one of the most intense times for the rowers and you want to
make it as familiar as possible. With a countdown with numbers, you have
consistency from one race to the next. With names you don't.
Well, I've spouted off long enought, I guess it's back to work.
Have a happy new year!
-- Floyd --
Ronald K. Chen
crews (with the inquiry Ready?) followed by ARE YOUR READY? GO!. We
will recognize a hand at any time, except when we use a countdown
start (5-4-3-2-1 ARE YOU READY GO!) which we use in windy weather. In
FISA, the current (and about to be displaced practice) is not to
recognize hands once the red flag is raised.
The commands established by the A.R.A. (for England) are Attention.
Set! GO!. It appears that the process of devolution has not
progressed to the point that S.A.R.A. (the Scottish association) has
developed separate commands.
fee...@nova.enet.dec.com
|>> Why the roll call? Why don't they just count to 10 and say set go. I could
|>> understand this if they would recognize hands during the roll call...for
|>> instance once the roll call has passed over you, the hand would not be
|>> recognized.
|>
|>Perhaps they don't recognize hands but they may spot if the crews are not
|>ready. It would seem stupid for the starter to say "set....go" if two crews
|>were pointing at each other.
I don't like the change. And was being facetious. A roll call means that you
are there. In the wording of the posting there is no indication of the
readiness of the crew. In the US and in international circles a raised hand
indicates that the crew is not ready. In my eyes a visual that all the lanes
are filled would be good enough to start some count down with this type of
procedure.
|>
|>>
|>> I wouldn't use this in most domestic events...it wouldn't work very well in
|>> the lower level catagories.
|>>
|>> -Jay
|>>
|>
|>What is the starting procedure in the USA? In Scotland at the moment
|>after the call over, if any, the actual starting words are (from
|>memory - I don't have a copy of the rules here)
|>
|>Attention (combined with raising the flag)......
|>
|>Set...Go (combined with dropping the flag)
|>
|>Between the attention and the set the started will pay attention to hands,
|>once they say "Set" then the start is for real this time. This seems to
|>work reasonably well. In severe the conditions there may be less attention
|>paid to hands than might happen on a calm day - but crews will be told this
|>if it is necessary.
|>
|>There may be quite a pause between the "attention" and the "set" if crews
|>are moving round a bit until all the hands are down.
|>
|>
|>Douglas.
|>
Today the start is the same as FISA.
-Jay
Mr Douglas MacFarlane
The SARA has it's own rules of racing!! The fact that we use the same
form of words at the start of the race should not be taken as meaning that
we use the same rules... I may be mistaken on this but I think the
attention...set...go wording was introduced here before it was used
South of the border. I'll have to ask around to check up on that though.
I don't think devolution is the issue here - there isn't a central
body which governs rowing in the UK so there is no central body to
devolve things. Things are such that the SARA has sought, without
success, to be directly affiliated to FISA.
Douglas.
Hugh Ainsley
month was that the art of hand-up juggling was threatening to become more
important than the actual race. The "Ready" has been dropped from the
roll call, and more importantly the roll call itself will be omitted if
conditions are sufficiently adverse to merit it. It was not said if in
bad weather crews will get a overall "all crews ready" or some such - I
dont see how crews could just be started on a "set...go" without ANy
prior warning!
Over here for non multi-lane racing we use an "Attention...set...go"
pattern, and the full international system with roll call really only
being used at National Champs and the (few) 2000m m/l regattas we have,
so I doubt it will make a lot of odds.
From my point of view (coaching would-be international juniors) its one
less thing to have to worry already nervous kids about!
hugh
David Ploss
thing to worry about at the start. As long as they are well coached and
the commands are consistent from one race to the next.
Bonnie M. Voigtlander
With regard to USRowing adopting the new FISA starting procedure, I
agree with Bob Walton. We ought not to do that. In fact, I'm still
waiting for USRowing to go back to the French starting commands.
Which reminds me of an interesting story ...
The first regatta that I ever heard the English Commands of "Are You
Ready", "Go" used was the Mardi Gras Regatta in New Orleans several
years ago. This regatta is a very informal, 800 meter race. Actually,
the regatta is a good excuse for southeastern clubs to come down to
the Big Easy and party. However, the races are taken fairly seriously.
Bob Jaugstetter acts as a the only referee. Motor launches are not
allowed on the Bayou St. John. Bob drives down to the start, starts the
crews from his position on land, drives down to the finish, and
announces the winner as in: "That boat won." First place medals only
are given. Times are not recorded. You get the picture.
Anyway, the fateful year of the introduction of English starting
commands, Jaugs found himself starting the men's master doubles.
There were only two boats: Oak Ridge and New Orleans. Jaugs lined
them up and stated: "Oak Ridge, ready?" The Oak Ridge double
nodded their heads. "New Orleans, ready?" The New Orleans double
nodded their heads. Jaugs raised his voice and the starting flag and
announced loudly: "Are you ready!" The stroke of the New Orleans
double in a very irritated tone of voice, distraught at being asked twice,
yelled back at Jaugs: "Yes, we're ready!" Jaugs calmly lowered the
flag and told the crews: "It is not necessary to give a verbal answer to
the starting commands." The starting procedure began again.
Now, I sincerely doubt that ever in the history of French starting
commands did a rower yell back "pre!" at the "Et vous pre". Please,
bring back the French!!
--
bonniev, sculler ao...@yfn.ysu.edu
Robert Walton
Last year I attended a FISA umpires' refresher seminar. The
presentors were members of the FISA Umpiring Commission. They
described the proposal (since adopted) for new starting commands
and procedure.
I didn't believe that I heard correctly, so I asked them to repeat
the part about not respecting raised hands. They did.
What further caused me wonderment was their contention that this
proposal (now adopted) came from the Athletes Commission. Perhaps
world class athletes feel the need for a quick, predictable start
procedure more than they fear the possibility of something
irregular happening just before the start.
But for the rest of us mortals who have trouble keeping a point
in the wind, the opportunity to raise a hand saying "Please, not
quite yet. We're working on it." is a saver of catastrophe.
The USRA should not change its start rules because the FISA
Council has chosen to experiment.
The start line at Indianapolis is protected from wind, but not
THAT well protected. I predict that more than one race next
September at the World Championships will have problems under
the new rules that would not have happened had raised hands been
respected.
That's my New Year's prediction.
Jeffrey Jason Woodard
If the referee thinks that you were correct that it was a dangerous
situation, then no false start will be asssessed. Either way, it's
better to have a good point than to start going the wrong direction.
Maybe Ron could clear up the details for us.
Jeff.
Ronald K. Chen
>Jeff.
Indeed, under the current rules, if all else fails, either
don't row, or else stop immediately (within the first few strokes).
The worst that could happen is that you get a false start. Very
possibly you won't. If your hand was in the air but the Starter
missed it, then they will simply call you back and try again. (This
was the crux of the famous San Diego Crew Classic brouhaha of 1990).
The question is, however, whether hands will be recognized under the
new procedure. If they will not be recognized, then we might have new
understandings on whether a crew that doesn't row will be able to have
the race stopped.
There has been enough discussion and debate on this that clearly we
will not change the domestic starting commands without a LOT of
analysis and debate. I have just asked USRowing Headquarters to put a
solicitation of opinion in the mailing that goes to all member clubs
as well. I do want to thank everyone who has given their opinion and
contributed to the discussion. We want to adopt the rule that
everyone feels the most comfortable with, and it helps to know what
everyone is thinking.
ralphr...@hotmail.com
I feel so old now.
Chris A
> Doesn't anyone remember "Êtes-vous Prêts? Partez!"
>
> I feel so old now.
A few old names in this thread!