Info/exp needed about Levator mahogany shells
Sjobber
My club is going to buy a new single. We're stated in The Netherlands
so to come to a conclusion; we've only looked at the European market
in the past decades. But the USA market is at this moment a nice one
to look at with the current dollar rate.
We're looking for a first class racing shell. And during my search to
the elite, I came across Levator. I've also posted this on RI-forum
but got just a very few comments. I hope to get that one comment I'm
looking for at this group.
Okay, Carl Douglas has some nice shells, but we've got two of those
already. So time for something new and shiny I would say. And as I
said, I'm looking at the USA market at this moment. If this does not
get a satisfying end, we'll just get ourselves another Carl Douglas or
Empacher.
So about Levator. Rowing is my passion so I do not like tupperware
boats. Conclusion; cedar/mahogany for the win! I'm currently trying to
get some information on these shells:
Levator - Flight
Levator - Excellence
Levator - Legacy
So if anyone has some experience with those shells, or knows someone
with one; please share it with me. I would like to get answers to
these questions:
- What are the rowing abilitys? Good balance, stable on the water,
drop of hull speed during
recover, etc.
- Is it competative? Or is it significant slower than other boats
(aside from the rowers abilitys.)
- Value for money, and does such a shell get much attention at
regattas.
- How long does their stiffness last when used for 5 times a week.
Gets week fast, or stays stiff for at least 15 years.
- Kinda strong against trash in the water, wood, glass and such.
- Easy to repair? We can get a Carl Douglas Custom fixed for
instance.
- And not to give Carl Douglas a bad face, but how're they compared to
those shells (custom/custom special)? If it's just as good as a CD
Yeah, I'm also goign to ask the boys themselves, but I thought it
would be handy to get some feedback from users first.
I realy hope to get some feedback, so thanks in advance.
paul_v...@hotmail.com
Wow, here I am in the USA thinking, "A CD Custom as a second choice?
Ya gotta be kidding!" The new "wood" line from levator does look
nice, but it's not exactly like they have 30+ years of history
speaking for them. Plus you are going to have some big shipping
charges to deal with. Sorry, not being negative on your thought to go
overseas for business, but it must be envy rearing it's ugly head and
I better just let it out to run on. [;o)
All the best in your quest.
- Paul Smith
Sjobber
You're looking for a better boat than the ones you had before. If not,
we would still be stuck with our wooden Stämpflis and Donarticos at
the World Champs, right?
And as said; the USA market gets interesting with this dollar rate. A
Carl Douglas is worth every penny, but it seems so easy to just buy
one.
And with Levator... it's something completely new for us Europeans, so
we get new experiences from it. And they look astonishing. So why
don't we try? It's not my own money, so... But that does not mean we
can just waste it, and you can only spend it once. That would be a
shame. Although no-one would even care.
And their short history is indeed a bit of a problem here, hehe.
Transport would be around 300 Euros I think. But that depends on
several things.
Henning Lippke
> And as said; the USA market gets interesting with this dollar rate.
Have a look at the GBP exchange rates, they are not bad, either.
I don't think that you'll get much improvement with a Lavator compared
to your CD. I'd rather say you get no improvement with whatever else you
buy. Just recently I realised (again) that almost all boats have certain
compromises on the fittings or boat itself. The CD is the only one where
all parts 'fit'. But you already know that.
Finally, we try to keep a 'consistent' fleet. The ideal would be to have
equal boats: 1. easier to maintain (less spare parts to keep, and on US
boats this can get nasty) 2. people won't start to complain about one
boat being better than another and in the result some boats get less use
and some are over-booked all the time.
And if you find the CDs too boring, try the coloured wood.
J Flory
Levator is in Canada, not the USA. Founded by Jurgen, son of
Kaschper, split off from his father's business which continues to make
boats as well. It's explained on the website.
No experience with those specific models but two people who previously
rowed at our club had Levators and seemed to like them. There were
some issues with one of the boats but Levator replaced the boat no
problem. Maybe ask Levator to put you in touch with some of their
customers?
If wood appearance is critical, why not go 100% wood and get a King?
Of course you'd have to buy used or wait a few years for a new one.
An amazing boat, beautiful, built to weight, fast, and seaworthy.
Hull shape similar to a CD? King riggers are iron (perhaps so they
will bend to absorb crash impact and thus avoid hull damage?), but
many people replace them with CD riggers, which would simplify
maintenance for you.
Sjobber
> Of course you'd have to buy used or wait a few years for a new one.
> An amazing boat, beautiful, built to weight, fast, and seaworthy.
> Hull shape similar to a CD? King riggers are iron (perhaps so they
> will bend to absorb crash impact and thus avoid hull damage?), but
> many people replace them with CD riggers, which would simplify
> maintenance for you.
find it, so...
Or maybe a site with some pictures of these shells? I've never ever
seen one, although I've heard from them.
But I do not think that we'll buy a full wooden shell; even if it is
Godlike.
Most people intend to believe that carbon and such is way faster and
better. Next to that our boatsman already makes us full wooden shells
as trainingships. Would also be a bit odd towards him to buy a full
wooden shell.
J Flory
>
> Yeah, about King. Do they have a website? I do not seem to be able to
> find it, so...
> Or maybe a site with some pictures of these shells? I've never ever
> seen one, although I've heard from them.
> But I do not think that we'll buy a full wooden shell; even if it is
> Godlike.
> Most people intend to believe that carbon and such is way faster and
> better. Next to that our boatsman already makes us full wooden shells
> as trainingships. Would also be a bit odd towards him to buy a full
> wooden shell.
AFAIK Grahm King does not have a website. Here are a few action
photos of a King 1x with CD riggers:
http://tinyurl.com/6xfysz
If you click the right arrow at the bottom it will allow you to see
additional shots.
Edgar
"J Flory" <john....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:b57b403d-85d7-4130...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
AFAIK Grahm King does not have a website. Here are a few action
photos of a King 1x with CD riggers:
http://tinyurl.com/6xfysz
If you click the right arrow at the bottom it will allow you to see
additional shots.
I spent some time admiring that very boat on the rack at Amoskeag R.C.when I
was there a few years ago and it was certainly a thing of beauty. Lovely to
look at and quite light. Dare not think how many man-hours went into
building it.
Sjobber
or is the cockpit more at the stern than in other singles?
Oh yeah, for Jim who mailed me. Thanks for the reply.
As you said: A local company is also better for repairs and parts as
well.
Our boatsman can repair a Carl Douglas for as far as his skills take
him. That would be minor repairs. So I would not see any difficulties
with this, unless some a-hole parks the 1x on the rocks and brings it
back in two pieces. Aditional parts would only be a fin and rigger.
Not something which you'll lose in a day :p.
But as you're kinda familiar with the company; you'd also buy a CD
over Levator as CD is just better? Or just because CD has more of a
name. If you do not look for where the builder is located for the
repairs.
J Flory
riggers:
http://tinyurl.com/5hugww
And a HW King 2x with the stock riggers:
http://tinyurl.com/6e576u
Both this guy and the lady in the previous shots are fiercely attached
to their Kings.
J Flory
Sorry that first link works only intermittently. This may work better
for the HW 1x shots:
http://tinyurl.com/5q39st
paul_v...@hotmail.com
As long as suggestions for unique items are being made, take a look at
the efforts going on here.
http://pocockclassic.org/index.htm
- Paul Smith
Ted van de Weteringe
> As you said: A local company is also better for repairs and parts as
> well.
>
> Our boatsman can repair a Carl Douglas for as far as his skills take
> him. That would be minor repairs.
Rob Heeres in Utrecht is never far away in Holland. See
http://www.carldouglas.co.uk/html/overseas.html#repair and
http://www.heeresboatservice.nl/watdoenwij.htm
Charles Carroll
Have you sculled one of King's boats?
I was told that there are a number of Kings at the Cambridge Boat Club. The
person who was talking to me said that they are stunningly beautiful. But
she also said that scullers who capsize in them don't try to climb back in.
This was said to me as we were standing on the dock in Sausalito. The person
who told me this had been admiring my boat, and I had said, "Why don't you
take it out? See how it rows."
She looked over in the distance at the water and said, "Thank you, but no
way."
"Why?"
"Look at the water. It's too rough."
"So?"
"I don't want to chance falling in."
"But you're a really competent sculler. You have a National ranking, don't
you?"
"Yes. But I don't want to take a chance."
"Why?'
"Because if I were to go over I wouldn't be able to get back in."
"Don't be silly," I said. "You know how to get back into a boat. It's easy."
"Yes. But you can't climb back into a wooden boat."
"Who's told you that. I've climbed back into my boat."
"But you don't at the Cambridge Boat Club. No one climbs back into a wooden
boat."
You've rowed out of the Cambridge Boat Club, haven't you? Is this a true
story? Or is this person just teasing me?
Cordially,
Charles
wmar...@gmail.com
Don't know much about Levator. A coach from here was in the Excited
States for a while, and when he was returning to Kiwi country, his
colleagues apparently bought him a Canadian made Hudson single - that
may not be completely accurate, but he has a Hudson. When he finally
had time to assemble the boat, rig it and row it, he was quite
disappointed - he was looking forward to a few hours of tinkering and
adjusting, but everything fit, pitches were accurate, when he checked
the index marks on the riggers, they were accurate, and centered, so
he had to take it out for a row, instead of having to adjust stuff.
When he got on the water, it was comfortable to row, and felt quite
solid.
When we once (while still in Alberta) damaged a rigger - ok, broke a
wing off a rigger - I phoned the guys at Hudson, they asked for the
model number on the rigger (it was an 8), took the order, and the new
rigger frame was delivered before we got home from the competition.
The only issue you'd have is that the bolts and hardware are "SAE" or
"inch" fittings, instead of metric. (e.g., rigger bolts are 1/4"NC or
1/4", 20 threads/inch) and you'll need inch spanners - mostly 7/16"
spanners - which are pretty much interchangeable with 11 mm spanners,
but the nuts used to hold the pins in place, IIRC, are 3/4"...
If you want a good boat from another Canadian company - Gord Henry (ex-
Hudson) has FluidDesign, with the rigger positioned bow-ward of the
athlete. People make their boats go pretty fast, too, and they're
pretty easy to set up with a spanner and an allen key.
J Flory
wrote:
> John -
>
> Have you sculled one of King's boats?
Yes a friend who is a member let me guest-row a King 1x from Cambridge
Boat Club a couple of times. Kings are their club boats, which works
because most CBC members are very experienced. Rowing a wooden 1x
again (I learned in wooden boats, Pococks and Sheas I think, but I was
too young to notice) took a little getting used to: the sounds are
different from composite boats. The King was very easy to manage,
stable, etc.
Have been in my clubmate's King 2x often. Sensation is like rowing in
fine furniture but the thing is definitely fast and dry in rough
water. Again, sounds different from my composite 2x.
As for not climbing back in, I don't remember if I was told that at
CBC but my clubmate has said that if he flipped he would not risk
damage to the splashbox by trying to climb back in. In that situation
in his boat I would probably invert the hull, slither onto it
carefully, and paddle it to shore. Or in warm water just swim it to
shore if the shore is nearby.
Perhaps what your visitor was trying to say was that it is pointless
to try out a boat in lousy conditions. Hard to feel much in heavy
chop/wind, so all you learn is how well you and the boat handle rough
water. In rough water one is more likely to swamp than capsize, and
that handcuffs you and puts you at the mercy of the wind and
currents. First thing I'd want to know is how a boat feels on glassy
water, then I'd want to know how well it handles rougher stuff.
Wind/chop, fog, lightning, and collision with powerboat traffic all
concern me more than flipping.
J Flory
Thinking over what you've said, it might be smartest to get another
CD. If funds are limited, consider the CD-X.
There are advantages to standardizing to one or two boat types:
(1) spare parts (though it's not as though you have to change the oil
and air filter every few months, spare fins and other bits are handy
to have)
(2) rigging that adjusts the same way in every boat makes things
simpler for the boatman AND the scullers
(3) less fussing over who gets what boats: people tend to feel
ownership for a boat they've been using regularly, and fuss if that
boat is not available - this way, there is a nearly equivalent boat
they can use
In the US, Cambridge Boat Club has King's for their club 1x's, and
Narragansett Boat Club in RI standardized on Van Dusens. Both are
well-established, intelligently-run clubs.
If the CD's are working well for you, why not just get more?
If you have a number of Juniors/U23's/Elites (or hopefuls in those
categories) it MIGHT be helpful to also have some Empachers or
Filippis for them (or possibly Fluidesign for LW's). The reasoning is
that these are the boats they are likely to be loaned at international
regattas and that will be supported there (or that they can get advice
on). Not that these are better boats than anything else out there,
just that they are the de facto boats that are used most at the
moment. The Empachers are very stable (good for people to hone their
skills in) and durable (the ones in the clubhouse I row out of in
Boston get a LOT of use).
Charles Carroll
I am both sympathetic and a tad envious that you can say the first thing
you'd want to know about a boat is how it feels on glassy water.
Given the water I row on, I don't have that luxury. I need to know that a
shell is sturdy enough for me to climb back in should I be tossed out of it.
I think it was Mike who just recently said that a lot of what we do depends
on where we are on the river.
We have a member of our Club who I've heard has just persuaded Graeme King
to build a shell for him. But he doesn't intend to keep it in Sausalito. It
is going to stay on the east coast in New England where he has a second
home. Too bad, because I have never seen one of Graeme King's shells, except
in a photograph.
Cordially,
Charles