Re: single for 85/90kg male rower
Charles Carroll
Carl has seven sizes. Mine, which is for a 70kg crew, fits me perfectly.
I cannot tell you how much I miss my boat. It is still being repaired. I
have had a lot of difficulty these past weeks rowing a generic Maas 24. I am
only now making it move. It is a good boat, but I have to adapt to it. This
in not the case with Carl's boat. It was built for me (adapted to me) and
fits like a glove. A bespoke racing shell!
I highly recommend that if you can find one in your size ask to try it out.
From the very first stroke I knew this boat was mine.
Cordially,
Charles
Ps Carl even measured to distance between my sitting bones so he could get
the seat right.
wmar...@gmail.com
> I have read with interest the various postings regarding boat sizes.
>
> I feel that I am, weight 85/90kg, sort of in between sizes for many
> shells.
>
> For example, with an Empacher, they have the 18 which they say is for
> 75 to 85kg rowers, and the 12 which is for 85kg PLUS. I have not
> tried a 12, but someone who is about the same weight felt he was
> subject to too much being pushed by the wind in the 12, and had too
> much bow dip on the 12.
>
> Sykes also has only too size molds, centered around 75kg and 100kg.
> Both seemed to row quite nicely but it was a very calm day.
>
> I guess Carl has many different size molds.
>
> Hudson, a few too.
>
> For an advanced not yet expert competitive rower, I wonder if size is
> as critical or if one should go with the manufacturers
> recommendation. And does an empacher have any drawbacks for such an
> ability level?
>
> David
I guess it depends a bit on where you are, too.
Empacher last a long time - though they can be expensive up front.
Hudson are gaining popularity here (NZ).
Mahe D uses a KIRS from NZ
FluidDesign, Nash, Sykes afaik are good boats, too.
CD are VG
Sometimes I've recommended "starter" boats for people, but they
quickly outgrow them - if you get a good boat and look after it, it
may cost more up front, but you'll only buy it once, instead of
growing unhappy with it in a short time and then having to replace it.
Now I tend to suggest people get something that they'll want to keep
for a while, and that they try a few manufacturers before buying.
Charles Carroll
Really good advice!
Of course my knowledge of rowing is very limited. In my opinion Carl is the
premier boat builder in the world. But as we all know opinions are not
necessarily knowledge.
I tend to go by who is passionate about his or her boat. The people I have
met who are most passionate about their boats are people who own Carl
Douglas's of course. But people who own Empachers seem to be equally
passionate; and so, too, are people who own FluidDesigns; and people who own
Van Dusens. These are the people I've met who talk incessantly about their
boats in words and descriptions of true love.
Other people talk about their boats, too, only it seems to me not quite with
the same passion.
Mike Sullivan talks about the old wooden Pococks. He seems to have a true
nostalgia for them. But I am never quite sure whether his nostalgia is for
the old eights or the singles.
Cordially,
Charles
frees...@gmail.com
1. Is the empacher shell size wrong for me (and which should it be);
and/or is there something specific about the empacher that makes it
less desireable for an advanced rower.
2. Is the sykes or hudson in the same categoy, or perhaps better?
3. Is the CD worth the premium, beyond the aesthetic beauty?
Ted van de Weteringe
> 1. Is the empacher shell size wrong for me (and which should it be);
> and/or is there something specific about the empacher that makes it
> less desireable for an advanced rower.
Nope, Empachers are always good, especially for non-elite rowers. They
do not require subtle boat handling, which is a good thing but perhaps a
sign of underlying suboptimally speed characteristics. Ask every boat
builder (not sales rep) for which exact speed (range?) his shells are
optimized. For example, 15-20 km/h is quite broad and too high for
recreational use.
carolinetu
kilogram, most will work for a sculler who is 5+ kg heavier or lighter
than the stated weight. I have a 72.5 kg Glyn Locke, which was
perfect when I bought it but these days sits rather low in the water
(and I'm not telling you what I weigh now!)
Of course Carl makes the best boats in the world - my husband has one
which I bought for his 50th birthday. His boats are fast as well as
beautiful but require a fair degree of skill - rather like a
thoroughbred horse I suppose (not that I've ever ridden any sort of
horse).
Ray Sims (Nottingham) also makes good boats, though our experience is
that they tend to come out rather larger than the stated weight.
Best thing, if you can, is to try several boats and see which one
feels most comfortable.
Caroline
J Flory
Get a used Empacher K-12 in good condition. A very stable boat (they
have to be, at WC's and Oly's they are leased to elites from all over
the world, some of whom - contrary to opinion here - are not highly
skilled). Hone your skills in it for a couple of years, race it if
you want to, resell it for only a little less than what you paid
(there's a good market for them used), and then buy the boat of your
dreams.
As for size, probably better to be overboated than under. I know a
155lb (70.5kg) woman who trains in a K-12 and races a K-18 with no
problems. Your friend's bow dip issue is likely related to technique
given that the hull was slightly large for him; fore-and-aft rocking
is more likely when the boat is undersized for the sculler rather than
over, as in this case.
All the boats mentioned are great in different ways; there is no
absolute "best" boat. When you've had more experience you'll know
what is important to you and be able to make a better decision as to
what is right for you and for the conditions where you train and race.
Rob Collings
> 3. Is the CD worth the premium, beyond the aesthetic beauty?
Yep. They are great to scull and long lasting (you can still have a
perfectly good shell after 20+ years). I and others have also found
the weight categories to be really quite tolerant for smaller scullers
at least.
As for the empacher, it could be that you simply don't fit it well.
Maybe another size would be better or maybe not. I don't have a
rational explanation for this, but there are some boats that I just
can't seem to ever adjust to the point that I feel comfortable. You
would think that the combination of pins, stretcher and slides would
cover it all, but it doesn't seem to. My CD-X, on the other hand, fits
me like a glove (especially with the custom-fit seat!). I know a
number of people of varying skill levels with empachers and they all
seem to get along with their boats fine, so I don't think skill
necessarily affects their suitability.
No experience of Sykes/Hudson.
Out of interest, where in the world are you based? Boat choice often
reflects "local" availability. Not least, being based in the same
continent as the manufacturer sometimes has it's advantages (repairs
etc).
Rob.
Zbigniew A.
> I think it is a couple of questions:
>
> 1. Is the empacher shell size wrong for me (and which should it be);
> and/or is there something specific about the empacher that makes it
> less desireable for an advanced rower.
let me throw my 3 cents worth here:
-- Indeed you are "in between" K-18 and K-12 sizes. You may row both. The
smaller one will sit deeper, center of gravity will be lower, and it may
feel more stable. But in bad conditions you may get into troubles,
especially if there are "long" waves from ships/motorboats.
In my club there was a junior, who also rowed in LM and at that time he
rowed on K-18. Next year he grew up, not really much, and coaches decided
it's time for bigger shell. And you are considerably heavier than 70 kilo,
aren't you? Bottom line:
Empacher says that K-12 is from 85 to 100 kilo, means it is *good* for 85!
- Empachers are really stiff boats, that means they are less forgiving. I
personally like it cause rowing on a mushy boat develops bad rowing
technique. But I understand that it may take some time before you feel
comfortable on a stiff boat.
- We have one K-12 shell in a club and people talk it's no good, cause when
you lay it on water (empty, no oars) it never stays straight by itself, it
always falls to one side. So people say it "technically difficult" boat. I
think this is just urban myth, it has no relevance to how the loaded boat
behaves, when you sit on it.
- Would you buy shoes without having a chance to try them? I believe in your
vicinity there is couple of rowing clubs. Google says they heave good
selection of Empacher boats. Call them and ask for letting you try one (or
two!).
--
Yours Virtually, Zibi
Charles Carroll
You write that really stiff boats are less forgiving and that people who
scull mushy boats develop bad rowing technique.
Could you elaborate?
Cordially,
Charles
J Flory
> - We have one K-12 shell in a club and people talk it's no good, cause when
> you lay it on water (empty, no oars) it never stays straight by itself, it
> always falls to one side. So people say it "technically difficult" boat. I
> think this is just urban myth, it has no relevance to how the loaded boat
> behaves, when you sit on it.
The K-18 I had would never stay balanced at the dock whereas the Van
Dusen I have now invariably sits quite happily level. Doesn't mean a
thing, except that getting water into the riggers is slightly
annoying.
From the first stroke in the Empacher it felt like "driving the bus"
to me: flipping was not even on the radar screen, even with major
bobbles there was no doubt it would come back level. So I could just
relax and focus on rowing as well and working as hard as I could.
When Resolute was designing their 1x some years ago they did
engineering analysis on 1x's available at the time and Empacher was
the most stable of the boats they analyzed.
It's reasonably dry in rough water (the CD may handle that better),
rigging setting stays where you put it but footstretcher adjustment on
the water is impossible, doesn't turn very well for head races,
debatable whether it is the fastest hull, is relatively tough (CD and
VD may be tougher).
A reasonable starting point, after a couple of years you may decide
something else may suit your needs better - or not.
frees...@gmail.com
If I am at 85kg, right on the boderline of two hull sizes, is it
generally better to go larger or smaller?
thanks,
frees...@gmail.com
At 190/195lbs, that means the larger size technically, but if it is
"optimized" for a 100kg rower (220), then that is a lot of extra
boat. As I mentioned, I tried both and the midsized felt quite stable
but it was quite calm protected water, unlike where I will row, where
there is wind swept water and the occassional boat wake (or a lot of
boat wakes if I get out there too late, which I won't do).
Thanks again for the insight for those more experienced.
I am tempted to get one of these two boats used so I can use it this
summer, and then sell (or not) in a year or two as I understand what I
want better, try more shells, and have time to properly order.