Bluetooth Substitute for NK CoxBox

[Michael Small]

Has anyone tried to replace the NK CoxBox with a smartphone/bluetooth speaker combination?

[rolyb...@googlemail.com]

I think the problem is that the normal set up is that the bluetooth speaker plays the incoming voice, not the one talking to the phone, so you need two phones and to be receiving a call. Is there a way round that?

Roly

[Michael Small]

On Monday, November 3, 2014 11:27:25 AM UTC-5, rolyb...@googlemail.com wrote:
> I think the problem is that the normal set up is that the bluetooth speaker plays the incoming voice, not the one talking to the phone, so you need two phones and to be receiving a call. Is there a way round that?
>
> Roly

I've seen apps like: http://www.getmegajam.com/

[ArtS]

On Monday, November 3, 2014 7:53:03 AM UTC-8, Michael Small wrote:
> Has anyone tried to replace the NK CoxBox with a smartphone/bluetooth speaker combination?

I have been testing a combination of a Pyle head-worn microphone plugged into an iHome Bluetooth transmitter, paired with a chinese made waterproof bluetooth shower speaker. The combination works fine, and the next step is to integrate a bluetooth splitter I found on Amazon to allow two bluetooth speakers to simultaneously pair.

[Valgozi]

Have you got any links to the microphone and bluetooth transmitter?

Does the microphone plug straight into the transmitter or does it need to go through a device first?

Bluetooth splitter I have not heard of those, can you post a link for it. I having been pondering about a cox box set up similarly and was think you could split the signal from the microphone to two Bluetooth transmitters? (I have found 3.5mm splitters that can manage up to six just a lot of money to buy multiple Bluetooth transmitters.

The waterproof speakers look like a really good option just came across them today. I have found one that also receives FM radio so the small FM transmitters that you use for car stereos could also work as a way of sending the audio to multiple speakers over a short distance.

Waterproof speakers - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Easygo-New-wireless-microphone-bluetooth-speakers-Hybrid-Waterproof-Bluetooth-S-/191324415445?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
FM transmitter - http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/universal-fm-transmitter-stereo-connector-mp3-a47lf
3.5mm Jack Splitter - http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E5YNHWA?psc=1
Bluetooth Transmitter - http://www.amazon.co.uk/eSynic-3-5mm-Jack-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Headphones/dp/B00HZ0L1OM/ref=sr_1_12?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1404468530&sr=1-12&keywords=bluetooth+transmitter#productDetails

[Valgozi]

I was also thinking rather than speakers headphones could be better esspecially for early morning rows along rivers that back on to houses or moorings of house boats. I can't find one where you have one free ear and one with sound that could also work well from a safety point of view -

bluetooth sports headphones - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Patuoxun-Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Handsfree-Blue/dp/B00L6UCAHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415195160&sr=8-2&keywords=bluetooth+sports+headphones+for+running
I think you can get similar head phones with FM receivers, so again the FM transmitter could also come into use.

[Valgozi]

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 1:49:41 PM UTC, Valgozi wrote:
> I was also thinking rather than speakers headphones could be better especially for early morning rows along rivers that back on to houses or moorings of house boats. I can't find one where you have one free ear and one with sound that could also work well from a safety point of view -

>
> bluetooth sports headphones - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Patuoxun-Wireless-Bluetooth-Headphones-Handsfree-Blue/dp/B00L6UCAHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415195160&sr=8-2&keywords=bluetooth+sports+headphones+for+running
> I think you can get similar head phones with FM receivers, so again the FM transmitter could also come into use.

Just came across this one ear bluetooth headset thing - http://www.miniinthebox.com/mini-stereo-wireless-v3-0-headset_p1187467.html?currency=GBP&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping&gclid=Cj0KEQiAsueiBRCT8YOM4PDElsYBEiQAaiI4IO78eQtHW1Atp9uO6ashF0vLExwwNDELrZyYZyqWNbkaAoIy8P8HAQ

Bluetooth microphone the cox could wear - http://www.amazon.co.uk/VicTsing-Headphones-Microphone-Hands-free-Cellphones/dp/B00MTIWDZ6/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1415196052&sr=1-3&keywords=water+proof+bluetooth+microphone+headset

I had thought that the microphone would have to go through a smart phone or tablet (Hudl from tesco £79 I thought would be good) could then have a row app with stroke rate etc for the cox to look at.

I am interested to know how you have connected the microphone to the bluetooth transmitter and how both are then powered.

[ArtS]

I just ordered the Pyle PLM31 head-worn microphone from Amazon. It requires a phantom power supply (as do all Cardioid mics), so I am building a tiny circuit for it that runs on a rechargeable 9v battery.

The Bluetooth splitter is the Monoprice 109722 Bluetooth Transmitter and Splitter I found on Amazon. It has an internal rechargeable battery, and a range of 30 feet (9 meters for those that have mastered the logical base 10 system of measurement...).

I am awaiting the delivery of two shower speakers that cost US$6 each from Amazon, and are suction cup mount AND have an internal rechargeable battery.

The plan is to build a charging harness that has sufficient micro-usb charge connectors to create charging station much like you see in many boathouses for their coxing amplifiers.

The Bluetooth spec allows for "broadcast mode", which is my next step. That should allow the coxswain to be able speak to everyone in the boat via an earpiece.

[mvan...@gmail.com]

Op donderdag 6 november 2014 16:20:27 UTC+1 schreef ArtS:

Hi ArtS. I tried to find a Bluetooth cox box and so I saw your discussion. Can you tell if you already tried your blue tooth cox box? Does it work?

[pham...@gmail.com]

Arts, awesome development. I thought if this for a while and found your post. Any new changes? There are speakers that could also be daisy chained. Have you tried them?
I'd like to get your complete setup. Could you please spec out everything for us?
Thanks!

[Valgozi]

So been looking at this for a while. Finally come across a bluetooth transmitter that can link with two speakers instead of just the one (I wonder if there is one that can do more, so 3 or 4?) Two speaker system is possibly enough for 4's but maybe not enough speakers for an 8+.

Uk Amazon link it is on USA site too.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Avantree-Certified-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Wireless/dp/B0169TWV8O/ref=nav_signin?ie=UTF8&dpID=51ya5u8ziNL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=F3B5V8JDBJJZMARV0EVM&

So this can then link audio from a phone to TWO Bluetooth speakers, plenty of water proof ones available now around £10.

So there are then push to talk (PTT) apps that live play like a walkie talkie any audio being broadcast to them. Voxer seems to pop up first on iTunes app store.

So cox has a phone (in water proof case) with PTT app open and Bluetooth head set, then second phone (in water proof case) in boat half way down the boat to link Bluetooth connections between speakers linked to speakers for crew audio, could also be running a stroke coach app from stroke rate. Coach also has a phone on the bank/ launch in water proof case. Cox and Coach can talk and coach and cox to crew.

Quite a cool safety feature would be that a coach could actually select every boat out on the water in a PTT app and send audio instructions to all of them at same time no matter how far away as long as people have phone data signal.

Now eventually an avoidance/boat aware app that could send audio cue's via the PTT connections to boats when they are approaching each other using GPS positions.

[Valgozi]

Just thought to have 4 speakers in a boat two of the Prima II's could be plugged into to a 3.5 audio splitter so the audio out of the 'boat phone' is then broadcast to 4 connected speakers. If 'boat phone' is at 4 or 5 seat two speakers either side would be enough for an eight and all should be in range.

[carl]

On 08/07/2016 11:46, Valgozi wrote:
> Just thought to have 4 speakers in a boat to of the Prima II's could be plugged into to a 3.5 audio splitter so the audio out of the 'boat phone' is then broadcast to 4 connected speakers. If 'boat phone' is at 4 or 5 seat two speakers either side would be enough for an eight and all should be in range.

Anything wrong with good, old-fashioned voice production? Wonderfully
low-tech & unlikely to pack up. With just a little practice there'd be
very few coxes unable to make themselves heard in the bows, and by
another crew on a collision course.

But maybe I expect too much, given that many actors & entertainers can
no longer tread the boards without radio microphones?

Cheers -
Carl

--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
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[carl]

On 08/07/2016 11:56, carl wrote:
> On 08/07/2016 11:46, Valgozi wrote:
>> Just thought to have 4 speakers in a boat to of the Prima II's could
>> be plugged into to a 3.5 audio splitter so the audio out of the 'boat
>> phone' is then broadcast to 4 connected speakers. If 'boat phone' is
>> at 4 or 5 seat two speakers either side would be enough for an eight
>> and all should be in range.
>
> Anything wrong with good, old-fashioned voice production? Wonderfully
> low-tech & unlikely to pack up. With just a little practice there'd be
> very few coxes unable to make themselves heard in the bows, and by
> another crew on a collision course.
>
> But maybe I expect too much, given that many actors & entertainers can
> no longer tread the boards without radio microphones?
>

But how about giving your stern cox or steers-person a small screen
coupled to a dash-cam mounted behind bow's back? That could prevent
quite a few nasty accidents & insurance claims.

[Valgozi]

> But how about giving your stern cox or steers-person a small screen
> coupled to a dash-cam mounted behind bow's back? That could prevent
> quite a few nasty accidents & insurance claims.

Yeh GoPro's have WiFi link to phones, so that is more than possible. There is a rowing specific system too using camera and screen.
My suggestion of audio warning and GPS never as good as simply being on the correct side of the river ;-)


The bluetooth coxbox suggestion is to replace the electronic coxbox in a boat for potentially a lot less money.
BT speakers IPX7 water proof online £15.00 x 4 = £60.00
BT transmitters £30.00 x 2 = £60.00
Cox BT head set, not sure probably a rubbish one for around £10
If phones are already used in boats by crews so do not add to the cost thats an 8 wired for sound for £130.00, coxboxes are a lot more than that.

Our wired coxbox system failed at the very start of 4's head 2 years ago. Lose wiring or water in a speaker seemed to never happen on dry land or practice but always in a race. Bow loaded boat so our coxes whole plan of the race could not be heard, she had some lungs on her as well.

Bluetooth Could still have reliability issues, batteries not being charged, but it could be an alternative. With the connectivity possibilities the shouting or mega phone assisted coach could be a thing of the past. Quieter river banks probably a positive for any boat dwellers at 6am in the morning.

[2potsin...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 7:01:47 AM UTC-4, carl wrote:
>
> {snipped out a tiny bit here, you can go back to the original if needed}

>
> But how about giving your stern cox or steers-person a small screen
> coupled to a dash-cam mounted behind bow's back? That could prevent
> quite a few nasty accidents & insurance claims.
>
> Carl

Such a device is available - http://www.hyndsightvision.com/. One issue with most small screens is the image washes out in bright sunlight. The Hyndsight is designed with a brighter screen for this reason. The Hyndsight also has setting to reverse the screen depending on whether the user is a forward-facing cox or rear-facing rower. Both the cam and screen are in waterproof cases.

[carl]

Got that 3 times ;)

I'm right with you on the noise bit. But am I alone in being
unimpressed by the quantity (& acoustic volume) of low-grade guff which
passes from coaches & coxes into the ears of crews, & of anyone else on
or near a river used by rowers?

One of the best aids to crew cohesion is silence - just listening to
your rowing. And are we so stupid as to need reminding at every other
stroke of what we should be doing? Or so lacking in motivation as to
need constant aural stimulus?

Why does cox, who is often a non-rower, may have limited technique
insight & is unable to see the rower's body actions, have a better grasp
of the situation than the coach? Doesn't all that chit-chat &
exhortation impede comprehension?

In fact, don't we tend to spout rather too much tripe when talking about
how we row? The commentaries on rowing teeter regularly on the edge of
the utterly banal, with opinion, prejudice & plain lack of grasp of the
basic mechanics being passed off as real knowledge, awash with
incorrectly guesstimated distances between crews, & never a break for
quietly observing the action unfold.

Thus, while I've seen only a few of the excellent HRR Youtube videos, I
heard several repetitions of the myth that the legs can be driving hard
while there is no load on the arms. I wonder how that works?

Cheers -

[James HS]

when I took my level 2 coaching I was told off for not being vocal enough I had told my crew what I wanted, I had run alongside watching them struggle, then improve, then completely get what I had asked for. We easied, and I asked then what they had felt and they told me what I had seen. Job done? No apparently I should have continuously shouted at them.

Last year (for resource reasons) I coached a masters women's 8+ from the coxing seat and adopted a similar style. It was slightly different though in that I could feel changes that were being made and was able to 'coo' into the microphone to get a change and then hold a change.

I always asked for feedback on the amount of 'verbeage' and most said that they actually liked the rhythm of calls and did not necessarily listen to the contents but did listen to the tone and rhythm.

So sometimes I forgive the garbage that some coxes call as long as it is rhythmical and improves or keeps the crew on 'point'.

But when coaching changes in the crew I am less instructive and rely more on exercises while I wait for the penny to drop - sometimes over several outings.

James

[Emm]

My biggest disappointment with BT speakers is the quality of the
battery: it will charge well a couple of times, and then not any
more. And that was it then with the portability. So, unless
the battery technology improves a lot, I would not consider BT
speakers.

[Michael Small]

On Monday, November 3, 2014 at 10:53:03 AM UTC-5, Michael Small wrote:
> Has anyone tried to replace the NK CoxBox with a smartphone/bluetooth speaker combination?

I was able to get this to work with limited success.

I tried this configuration on the iPhone and on an Android phone.

Both of them had the same problem.

I used microphone/Public-Address apps that allowed the phones mic to broadcast through the bluetooth connection to the wireless speakers.

I used a device that allowed the bluetooth connection to be shared onto two speakers.

Speakers were waterproof, shower speakers that had suction-cups on the backs, these were secure enough in the shells.

The problem - noticeable delay in broadcast from app to speakers. Kind-of like a movie sound-track being out of sync with the picture. The delay was enough that I (as a rower/coach) would be concerned regarding safety - especially in a case where the coxswain commands would need to be followed immediately.

If anyone has any ideas for reducing or eliminating the delay - I would be willing to try it out!

Thanks!

[Valgozi]

Emm

The battery life could be a problem. BT speakers seem to have relatively small battery sizes for the amount of space available in the speaker. Just took delivery of one that is 8 hours of use so will see how this lasts. A previous BT speaker I had a few years ago did get to the point that it had to be plugged in to work the battery had gone. I always put this down to quality. Surely a good speaker should not only have a few charge cycles of its battery?

> If anyone has any ideas for reducing or eliminating the delay - I would be
> willing to try it out!

Interesting you say about the delay. I have only started playing with it myself. I can see the changing of it from sound to data then BT to another device there would be a latency in most apps. I wonder if that is because of BT connection or the way the app deals with the data from device to device.

Was it actually second(s) out of sync?

Which apps did you try on iOS? I have tried Porchlight WalkieTalkie. It seemed ok in an indoor environment, but have not tried with headset and on the water.

I would imagine actual walkie talkies there would be less of a delay as there would be no data conversion and send lag. So these instead of phones might be better?

Avantree on twitter say they are releasing a new device to connect 4 speakers towards autumn time. They said that splitting to two of the current one would not work.

[2potsin...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 9:15:37 AM UTC-4, Michael Small wrote:
>
> The problem - noticeable delay in broadcast from app to speakers. Kind-of like a movie sound-track being out of sync with the picture. The delay was enough that I (as a rower/coach) would be concerned regarding safety - especially in a case where the coxswain commands would need to be followed immediately.
>
> If anyone has any ideas for reducing or eliminating the delay - I would be willing to try it out!
>
> Thanks!

The issue of bluetooth audio lag is common as it is more-or-less built into the technology. There is some data conversion going on as well as the radio transmission. The original bluetooth specification envisioned only a single speaker, and that's fine if you are just listening to music. The small delay between generating the sound pattern in the playback device and you hearing come out of the speaker is irrelevant as long as the delay is absolutely constant over time, so your music plays without interruption or skips. Once you add other considerations, like a combination of wired speakers playing instantly with bluetooth speakers playing with a delay, or trying to watch a video with the audio out of sync, or in a situation as you describe where you might need instantaneous response, standard bluetooth becomes problematic. There are some bluetooth player-speaker combinations that are programmed with an override of the integral lag in the standard specification, but those are expensive and probably not suitable for this environment.

cheers from Virginia where I hope for a nice steady row this evening before the storms come again tomorrow.
dw