Maas single experience?
nan...@nwlink.com
more hefty than you, and the one downside to the wing is that you cannot
raise it like the tubular riggers if you want more height. other than that,
the wing is a nice touch..
dan
Leslie Partridge wrote in message <387E78BB...@earthlink.net>...
>Howdy, everyone:
>I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Carbon Maas
>Single. If you get the special package, you can get a 33.5 pound
>(rigged) shell for about $3,700, but I'm wondering how well it races and
>how it sets up in both flat and choppy water. How does it compare with
>the Peinert 26 or the new Vespoli Matrix? One thing I like about the
>Maas over the Peinert is the wing rigger, but should that be a big
>influence on my decision? I am a former college sweep rower, 6', 190lbs,
>looking to win some head races and maybe some master sprint races. Any
>guidance would be mucho appreciated.
>
Leslie Partridge
Ken
Maas 24 but it broke rather substantially one time as I was
re-entering it from the water.
I find the Peinert boat is significantly tougher. Also if you get a
standard Peinert, I believe you are getting a kevlar boat. Kayaks
made with kevlar cost $500 more than fiberglass, are lighter, and are
prized because a kevlar boat will not open up on impact, although the
resin will shatter, whereas a fiberglass or carbon boat can develop
large holes when they give.
Ken
(to reply via email
remove "zz" from address)
GHP
Ken wrote in message <388e2952...@news.optonline.net>...
Ken,
Yes it's true the Peinert is way tougher...WAY TOUGHER. A standard Peinert
is Kevlar and Carbon Fiber, and I'm not sure of the % of the composition. I
have a Dolphin I bought last year, it's tough as nails. We also have a
bunch of them at our boat club, they get much use from people that can be
less than easy on a boat; the boats keep right on performing. We've had a
few accidents with them (our river is filled with obsticals) where the boat
got between pilings and bent around. Paul @ Peinert was able to fix it
without much trouble. They're really good boats!
Cheers,
Gary
RNZWSCIZRS
wrong with either boat. The Peinert was as tough as nails, but my Maas seems to
be finished better. Both boats are stable and easy to row. I've taught first
time rowers in both. For rowing into a chop, the Maas deck flange keeps the
boat dry, but makes the boat look wide (if that's important to you). Compared
to other hull designs the Peinert may be short and the Maas hull flat to what
is state of the art. I like to think the motor not the boat wins most races.
Keep in mind that both boats are considered "club" singles. With the Maas
performance package you can bring the weight down, but it will also make your
wallet lighter. When I bought my Maas two years ago on the East coast it cost
more than the Peinert. I'm not sure how shipping affects the cost in other
parts of the country....jack
dko...@ricochet.net
I have actually seen the boat you broke. I have to tell you that at 6'4"
and 245 lbs, i am not sure i could break my 24 to the extent that you
did yours. Now i have to say I have never fallen out of mine, and have
thus not had to climb back in, but i have also had my full weight on
the center deckplate (where one would normally put their hands to
re-enter) and had no adverse affect on the boat.
This is not to say that I like the Maas over Peinert (never been in one
so i have no opinion here), nor do i defend one boats quality over the
other --- I just have to say i was amazed at the damage. And given
that the Maas has a vertical center reinforcing flange to spread the
weight around in the boat, you must either be one really big guy, enter
boats really hard from the water, or done something wrong along the
way.
I don't mean this to be any type of personal attack, so please do not
take it that way. However I wanted to add my few cents worth as i feel
making a posting that implies poorer quality of one brand over another
without all seeing the end results is not all that fair.
dan
Ken wrote in message <388e2952...@news.optonline.net>...
>My wife rows a Maas 24. I row a Peinert Dolphin. I formerly rowed a
>Maas 24 but it broke rather substantially one time as I was
>re-entering it from the water.
>
>I find the Peinert boat is significantly tougher. Also if you get a
>standard Peinert, I believe you are getting a kevlar boat. Kayaks
>made with kevlar cost $500 more than fiberglass, are lighter, and are
>prized because a kevlar boat will not open up on impact, although the
>resin will shatter, whereas a fiberglass or carbon boat can develop
>large holes when they give.
>
>Ken
Ken
I see from your 8/5/99 posting here that you have been rowing for
approximately six months, mainly on a flat-water lake. I never
capsized either rowing on a flat lake.
The Maas 24 didn't break when I pressed my hand on the seat deck --
because I never pressed on the seat deck. The Maas instructions, in
the section entitled "Tipping Over" on p. 6, recommended the method
whereby you hold the handles butted in one hand, swim across the top
and rotate your butt and hips right onto the seat deck. The hand
press on the seat deck to straight arms is not mentioned, probably
because the 24 has no washbox to clear. Anyway, as my ample butt was
rotating on the deck, it pressed on the 45 degree section and
splintered it for a good two feet. I saw that the fiberglass there
is very thin -- close to eggshell. It is undoubtedly strong enough to
support a distributed 300 lb. + load on the seat deck, but not a point
load right on those sloping sides.
Maas adjusted the problem in an honorable way. However, Maas drew the
conclusion that the boat should not be used by people who capsize. I
drew a different conclusion -- that their instructions were
inappropriate (and potentially dangerous) for big people getting back
into that boat.
dko...@ricochet.net
I have been rowing rather consisently (save November) several days a month
(due to weather here in the northwest) since I acquired my Maas, so my time
on the water is really rather inconsequential (and when the weather was good
i was out 4-5 days out of 7). As for the water quality itself, it has
ranged from dead flat to ripply chop to 1 foot waves. The lake I row on
gets a lot of southerly wind and where i lauch is not protected. The
ripples/waves tend to be of short duration ( a few feet distance) as opposed
to ocean type swells. I will say i try to stay out of the stuff just
because it isn't all that much fun to row.
My 24 was purchased used, so I have no instruction manual. What I have read
on my own certainly notes your method of getting into the boat is by all
means a valid approach. As i never read their owners notes, I would do the
seat deck method if i had to re-enter. I will agree that the side rail
areas are thin, heck the whole boat is thin. That is the point of a shell.
Perhaps yours was exceptionally thin in one spot, or maybe what i saw was
after some others had gotten to it, but the damage was far more extensive
that a 2 foot split on the rail area. I know Maas did you right. I think
that is something you should note in your postings when you discuss the real
or potential faults of one of their boats as a matter of fairness to the
issue.
I am a businessperson in the service industry. When one of my customers has
a problem, I almost always do them right unless it is blatently their fault
that something went wrong. It is a cost of doing business and a matter of
customer service. When I see posts such as yours, I cringe (especially when
i know the end results of your situation) because I see a person who, even
though adequately recompensed for their problem continues to discuss the
problem without mentioning the solution provided by the manufacturer. To me
it is simply a fairness issue.
As for Maas' conclusion, i don't know what it was, so i take your words at
face value. However as a big guy (and you don't mention your size) i am
VERY aware my size has an impact on fragile things around me. I lump a
shell into the fragile things category. I should not expect it to fail if i
fall out & get in, but I would not be all that surprised if it did so given
my size as well. I know if i row hard enough, i can get the whole shell to
bounce up in the water & flex a bit. That's the price i pay till some 30lbs
or so falls off my ample ass too.
dan
Ken wrote in message <38973f10...@news.optonline.net>...
Ken
Do I detect a bit of proprietary interest in Maas?
And I did expressly say that Maas handled it in an honorable way --
although not what I would call a way calculated to create a loyal fan.
I.e. Maas told me that if I insisted on a replacement rather than a
repair, it would give me a refund but not sell me another boat.
Underlying its handling of the matter, based on things said, I
detected the belief that Maas holds itself only slightly less
infallible than the Pope.
I wanted another one because there was at the time no competition and
I figured out a better way of getting back in, namely by straddling
the whole boat (with your weight supprted by the rolled deck lip) and
rotating back right onto the seat, rather than the seat deck.
And I did eventually buy another one -- for my far-less-large wife.
Fortunately for us big guys, Maas no longer has a monopoly on hi-tech
open water boats. In any event, the way a Maas 24 (or even an Aero)
must have its composite rigging shimmed to get the oarlock high enough
for a big person (pin imparted with undesirable pitch) is not as good
as the way Peinert can custom bend its aluminum rigging.
When the boat was returned by me to Maas it had a single crack thru
the material approximately 2 ft. long. If you realigned the sides of
the crack, it appeared as a hair line. Sounds to me that you saw it
after someone opened it way up, either to repair it or after an
inadequate repair failed. It seemed to me that a repair could be made
by opening up a long rectangular slot around the crack thru which a
premade fiberglass panel could be glued from the inside, then built up
flush on the outside. If I were doing the repair, I would have
installed a deck plate (maybe two) in the seat deck near the crack and
reinforced the crack with woven roving from behind. Neither of these
was anything I wanted on a boat a few months old that was used in
accordance with the owner's manual.
Ken
problem that caused my boat to fail, except that I would have the
handle ends butted together in one hand when I swung the opposite leg
over.
My conclusion is different from yours: If you are a big person (over
225), don't get back into your Maas 24 the way the manual suggests;
rather, use the "surfboard" method. It wasn't my boat that was
defective, it was the manual.