The "Pet Peeve" Thread - August 2001
jr...@twcf.rr.nospam.com
interest of entertainment I solicit your responses to this thread.
Please list your complaints, irritations, slow burns, distractions,
etc. which concern the rowing world.
_The Rules_:
1) - List 3 Peeves, maximum, per post
2) - No novels, please ... however ...
3) - Multiple posts are welcome
4) - Personal (or transparent) attacks are forbidden
5) - Replies should _only_ address the listed peeves
6) - Breaking the rules will be frowned upon intently
I'll start the thread with the following entry:
Walter Martindale
jr...@twcf.rr.nospam.com wrote:
> Please Mr./Ms. Referee/Umpire ....
> - if nothing need be said, say nothing
> - don't smother crews, even trailing crews ... stay back
> - be consistant, predictable, reasonable ...
>
> To this end, I offer my pet peeves, in no particular order ......
>
> 1) At the finish line, some referees want to penalize the odd outburst
> of profanity. (snip)
> 2) Some referees seem to believe that they must push their launches to
> a length or so from the leaders, regardless of the effects on the
> other crews.(snip)
>
> 3) Coaches often succumb to tunnel vision. Emotion is poorly
> translated, especially under stress. Not everyone is "out to get you".
> Some rivals will be genuinely happy to see you succeed. emulate them
> .. it will make you a better coach.
Aww, you got my favouritessss.
To add:
Coaches who, as part of a club where many crews row one boat, insist that
the boat be rigged specifically for "their" crew and returned to original
condition after one of the other many crews rows it.... This is a variety
of tunnel vision..
Lowpulse
2). Elite rowers that scream at novices and tell them "you shouldn't be on the
water".
3). 8's that wait until you are a foot away in your single before they yell
"look ahead".
Boy, this was easy!
Merrill
Ben Blaukopf
> 1). Launch drivers that create giant wakes and could care less.
Well, we don't have these on the Cam, so I'll go for
1) Coaches who stop their crews to talk to them for half an hour on
the wrong side of the river.
> 2). Elite rowers that scream at novices and tell them "you shouldn't be on the
> water".
Mmmm. We don't really have this, but I'll settle for CUWBC racing eights
three abreast up the reach on an early morning :)
> 3). 8's that wait until you are a foot away in your single before they yell
> "look ahead".
Oh yes!
Ben Blaukopf
--
Ben Blaukopf <b...@arachsys.com> Tel: +44 20 79006611
Arachsys Internet Services Ltd http://www.arachsys.com/
Loose Bananas
2. See 1.
3. See 1 and 2!!.
Their flailings are not generally their own fault but that of the gym
staff who inducted them IMO.
I gave up long ago trying to correct them and now just get on with it
and feel smug, but the thing that really grates is when the
performance monitor is pulled close to the work so that they can play
with the buttons with their feet in the stretcher and it gets battered
with the chain every stroke as the hands are thrown over the knees
halfway up the slide.
And they always rate 30 + with a 2 foot effective stroke.
And the first thing they do is always to "whack it up to 10" on the
damper.
Seethe Seethe.
I could go on but you all know what I mean don't you?
Somebody please follow this posting up so I know I am not alone.
With a clenched jaw.
L.
Loose Bananas
direction of one's flab twice per stroke thus incurring extra energy
expenditure, insist that ergo scores be weight adjusted in their
favour!
Fishermen. Note MEN! Women are lovely.
People who accost you in the car park of a service station while you
have a boat trailer hitched up and say "what's wi't all canoes mate,
is that what that Steve Redgrave/Matthew Pinsell/Harold Pinter does?,
ho ho" whilst performing an arm action akin to someone riding a horse.
Bitterly,
L.
Henry Law
wrote:
>1. Non-rowers ergo "technique" in public gyms.
I completely agree with you; but why do we feel so irritated by this?
I don't understand myself, or you, or everyone else (including my wife
and daughter) who shares the feeling. After all, don't we feel smug
when we are able to out-run the gym gorilla on the next machine whose
rippling muscles are flailing him along at 40+, while only pulling
2:15?
I did once speak to one non-rower who I feared was in imminent danger
of doing herself damage: over-reach followed by vast leg drive being
absorbed completely in bending the lower back into a "C" shape. I
suppose I should count myself lucky that there was no response - it
could easily have been a torrent of abuse. She's still doing it too,
which I suppose shows I was wrong. Then there's the oldish lady who
occupies the machine for at least fifteen minutes sliding her bum back
and forth through a range of about two feet and waving her hands in
the air somewhere near her knees.
Should we repent of all this waspishness?
--
Henry Law <>< I'm henry (at) thelaws.demon.co.uk
But my reply-to address goes to
spam...@thelaws.demon.co.uk
Manchester, England If you send mail there I'll get it eventually
Alister Taylor
wrong thing, but those who teach them nothing at all.
The key to those is coaches of Year 9 (that'd be form 2/3 in England)
schoolgirl crews, who fail to impart to their athletes the slightest
form of river manners.
One can't get annoyed at the kids, who don't know any better than to
row 3 abreast in pairs up the river (when the Yarra is ONE lane wide
upstream), or to prop in front of me when I'm doing a race pace piece
and not yell until I run into them, but the coaches do. Most of these
coaches I rant about have rowed at state level, or similar, and would
go berserk if someone did it to them...
Abuse them, intimidate them or do anything short of violence to get
them to teach their crews what they need to know.
To fill my quota, I'd also like to add to the Rowing Enemies List (see
spectator.org for an explanation of this practice)
River Cruise and Water Taxi drivers. The rule here is 5 knots or no
wake, whichever is slower. Bunch of useless lobotomised neanderthals.
And: those dickheads who stand beside the river and yell row! We've
never heard this before. I have the fortune to occasionally train
with Drew Ginn, and watch his face when some idiot says "you should be
in the Oarsome Foursome, mate".
Peace and Love to _some_ river users, especially the girls who make
those slow mornings worthwhile. It seems so much easier when they're
there to be looked at
Al
Tim Granger
Alister Taylor <a...@irow.com> wrote:
>And: those dickheads who stand beside the river and yell row! We've
>never heard this before. I have the fortune to occasionally train
>with Drew Ginn, and watch his face when some idiot says "you should be
>in the Oarsome Foursome, mate".
In Cambridge, most of the random shouts from the bank show have moved
on a level - they now shout 'head sculler' to try and make you stop
and look around. However, they haven't quite been able to identify
different boat types yet (probably can't count), so will shout this
at you even when you're in a double, quad, eight, etc...
Tim
j...@durge.org
: In Cambridge, most of the random shouts from the bank show have moved
: on a level - they now shout 'head sculler' to try and make you stop
: and look around. However, they haven't quite been able to identify
: different boat types yet (probably can't count), so will shout this
: at you even when you're in a double, quad, eight, etc...
Glad I am not the only one who noticed this.
It is very amusing as you can tell when it's a piss-take quite easily.
Jon
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OnStream: acco...@rowing.org.uk http://www.rowing.org.uk/
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ehewitt
i've taken to racing crews, calling out seats as i pass them,
"BOWBAAAWWWLLL!!!", all that. very inspiring, for me, at least.
on the "shite erg rowing in the gym" peeve, i had a culture clash
experience recently that put this in a new light - i was on Maui and saw
two ergs - one standard C2 B erg, the other a C2 adapted for paddling (as
in canoe/kayak). on maui, rowing is almost non-existant (save for dr.
george martin's rows from kihei to maalea, but that's another story), and
to row the non-adapted "regular" erg is to stamp yourself "mainland haole"
in the first instant. i was doing 45"/15" intervals, just crushing the
machine that night, and looked every bit as much the outsider as does the
worst gym erg rower.
e
Tim Granger (tj...@stripos1.cl.cam.ac.uk) wrote:
: In article <78ae4359.01080...@posting.google.com>,
--
e
sue thomas
1. Coaches that don't respect their athletes, or that don't take Masters
rowing seriously, and worse, consider WOMEN'S Masters rowing as a social
activity and not a competitive sport. My EX-coach once said to me, "You
should focus on your family more, stay home and take care of your husband,
and have more fun." He never indicated anything similar to any of the male
rowers. Rowing is fun for me (not with him as a coach however), and
competitve rowing more so. That's why I do it.
2. Somewhat a subset of #1 -- other rowers, or coaches, that say, "at your
level ..." (referring to Masters rowing). Why is my level any less of a
level than someone else's? I am an athlete that dedicates a great deal of
time to improving my performance at a sport that I love. Why is Masters
rowing considered something less than elite rowing? Sure we're older, and
we're juggling family, work, rowing, sleeping, etc., and we can't train 3
times a day, 7 days a week, but does that mean that we are less competitive
or take our goals any less seriously?
3. Floating starts in a crosswind.
For a bit of a novel now (I gotta break at least one rule) ... the Masters
rowers of the coach referenced in #1 recently berated his masters athletes
for a poor showing at a provincial championship. He told them that they
weren't taking their training seriously and that he was very disappointed in
their performance. I don't think it occured to him that their results are a
reflection of HIS coaching. I quit the club about a year ago, found a coach
that took me seriously, trained as long and as hard as I desired with the
support of that excellent coach, and did achieve my goal, despite the
floating start in a crosswind.
Now there are some new goals, I'm training harder than ever, loving every
moment, and my husband is doing just fine.
...............
sue
Ewoud Dronkert
> Why is Masters rowing considered something less than elite rowing?
Because all Masters can start Elite, but only Elite rowers that are old
enough can start Masters. It's the same everywhere: novice, lightweight,
women, handicapped, whatever, if it's not open class then it's not the
fastest, highest, strongest competition available. It can be just as
competitive but is generally valued less (especially money-wise).
My pet peeves:
- Little kids on bridges or on the other side of the canal that throw stuff.
- The (yearly changing) committee that tries to re-invent the wheel, every
year again.
- Big companies that don't sponsor rowing.
Ewoud
Triton Utrecht
Philip Barton
year, bellowing "LOOK AHEAD SCULLER" to the only sculler in sight until he,
oblivious, came to the inevitable full stop, hitting a moored boat
head-on......
RDA
> : In Cambridge, most of the random shouts from the bank show have moved
> : on a level - they now shout 'head sculler' to try and make you stop
> : and look around. However, they haven't quite been able to identify
> : different boat types yet (probably can't count), so will shout this
> : at you even when you're in a double, quad, eight, etc...
>
in Glasgow you've got to be wary of rocks, big rocks being dropped
from bridges. last week a canoeist got shot at with an air gun!
Oh to have just shouts from the bank.
Other 'peeves':
the straights i always thought were straight when i trained in an
eight or four are no loger straight when i'm out in a scull.
others to follow...
Tim Wise
OK, if elite is the best of the best surely the the Olympic Regatta
should be just Men's heavy weight singles?
Tim Wise
PS Why should be Big companies sponsor Rowing?
"Ewoud Dronkert" <dron...@varsity.notthis.nl> wrote in message
news:3b6f0763$0$2958$e4fe...@newszilla.xs4all.nl...
Ewoud Dronkert
> You'd almost think a post like this is a troll wouldn't you?
Well maybe a little ;)
> OK, if elite is the best of the best surely the the Olympic
> Regatta should be just Men's heavy weight singles?
Yes. And add the eight because it goes fastest. But that is just my
theoretical idea, in practice I love all other aspects of rowing as it
exists. I'm a lightweight myself, coached juniors, veterans and lightweight
women, went on dozens of rowing tours, organized several local regattas, do
my club's website, contribute(?) to rsr :) etc....
> PS Why should be Big companies sponsor Rowing?
Mo' money! I thought about rephrasing that line before I posted it, but
thought the idea would be clear. I mean, rowing doesn't get a lot of
sponsoring compared to other sports, or least Dutch rowing doesn't (or more
specifically my club), and that adds some kind of dimension to the sport
(amateuresque, devotion) but I'd rather just upgrade the fleet, go on
far-away training camps, and compensate elite rowers and coaches for income
loss.
Ewoud
Triton Utrecht
James Elder
bit solemn - this is unintentional.
1. The FISA rule which prohibits male coxes in female crews and female
coxes in male crews at international level. It works perfectly well
in domestic competition in many countries, so what's the problem?
2. People who club hop. In a particularly extreme example, a rower I
know (all club details and gender identifiers removed to protected the
guilty) defected from Club A to Club B, 2 years ago. So, the rower
started the 99/00 season at Club B, raced the Eights' Head with Club
C, raced Nat Champs with Club A again, raced the Eton Supersprints
with Club D and ended the year at Club E. Incidentally, Clubs A-E are
all within 15 miles of each other. Ever hear of club loyalty?
3. Male scullers, pairs and doubles who, when a women's eight catches
them and draws level while both parties are doing low-rate
steady-state, jack the rate up and start racing in order to massage
their own ego. Especially fun in midwinter on the tidal Thames when
rowing against the stream, as the overtaking crew has to either sit
bearing the brunt of a raging stream or take the rating up to get past
(usually when you still have 90 minutes of UT1 paddling to go and
taking the rate up is the last thing you want to do).
At this point, it is customary for the men's boat to lose track of
their steering (because they're having to work so hard), and start
drifting out, pushing the overtaking eight further and further into
the stream...
j...@durge.org
: 1. The FISA rule which prohibits male coxes in female crews and female
: coxes in male crews at international level. It works perfectly well
: in domestic competition in many countries, so what's the problem?
If they let this happen, would the Olympics allow it too?
: At this point, it is customary for the men's boat to lose track of
: their steering (because they're having to work so hard), and start
: drifting out, pushing the overtaking eight further and further into
: the stream...
Why not just hold your ground?
Surely they don't want to steer into you more than they are prepared to
let you go by?
chris harrison
Or, at HT&V last weekend in a particularly tight finish to an S1 4- heat,
the commentator was bellowing "Look ahead London", repeating it with
noticable increases in volume.
Only London were a fair number of lengths back, and the crew that had
taken their station, Hereford, were the ones inside the buoys heading for
the race control pontoon seeminly oblivious to their peril ....
Unsurprisingly they managed to lose that tight finish to Maidenhead.
--
chris harrison
webmaster, vesta rowing club
http://www.vesta.rowing.org.uk/
chris harrison
> At this point, it is customary for the men's boat to lose track of
> their steering (because they're having to work so hard), and start
> drifting out, pushing the overtaking eight further and further into
> the stream...
Shouldn't you be helping them by holding your line, thereby giving them
something to steer against? ;)
'sides, shouldn't an eight be quick enough to cruise past a 1x or a 2- :)
david.ballard
stop so quickly when I did finally look round? Or am I confusing the heads?
David
Philip Barton <Philip....@BTInternet.com> wrote in message
news:9kn1og$24g$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
Sue Thomas
Surely this can't happen often though -- I'd think only a superior,
finely-tuned women's eight would be able to catch a male sculler or a
testosterone-laden double or pair ...
Sort of relates to one of my pet peeves ...
..........................
Sue
(over the edge and making sarcastic comments )
"chris harrison" <ne...@vesta.rowing.org.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.15da38ad3...@news.claranews.com...
Tim Wise
"Ewoud Dronkert" <dron...@varsity.notthis.nl> wrote in message
news:3b6fc5fd$0$2957$e4fe...@newszilla.xs4all.nl...
> "Tim Wise" <t...@chw.net.au> wrote:
> > You'd almost think a post like this is a troll wouldn't you?
>
> Well maybe a little ;)
As an old lightweight sculler this troll nearly had me flapping on the bank.
:)
>
> > OK, if elite is the best of the best surely the the Olympic
> > Regatta should be just Men's heavy weight singles?
>
> Yes. And add the eight because it goes fastest. But that is just my
> theoretical idea, in practice I love all other aspects of rowing as it
> exists. I'm a lightweight myself, coached juniors, veterans and
lightweight
> women, went on dozens of rowing tours, organized several local regattas,
do
> my club's website, contribute(?) to rsr :) etc....
Glad to hear it, Elite rowing is only a very small part of the sport.
Although it's the olympians that get all the recognition it's the efforts
of people like yourself that makes the sports possible.
Thanks.
>
> > PS Why should be Big companies sponsor Rowing?
>
> Mo' money! I thought about rephrasing that line before I posted it, but
> thought the idea would be clear. I mean, rowing doesn't get a lot of
> sponsoring compared to other sports, or least Dutch rowing doesn't (or
more
> specifically my club), and that adds some kind of dimension to the sport
> (amateuresque, devotion) but I'd rather just upgrade the fleet, go on
> far-away training camps, and compensate elite rowers and coaches for
income
> loss.
>
Agreed! but you have to give them something for their money, a few seconds
on the Television
every four years is not enough. The sport needs more participants so that
any sponors have
a reasonable target audience. How does Holland fund it's rowing? Government?
Corporate sponsors?
Over here (Australia) there is a fair bit of government funding for elite
sports
including rowing however most of it's ends up in the hands of the Institutes
of Sport and doesn't
filter down to the club level. It does indirectly help us replace our fleet
as every 2 or 3 years
when the Institutes replace their boats there is a supply of second hand
boats.
Good luck with getting fleet replaced.
Tim
> Ewoud
> Triton Utrecht
>
>
Luke Howells
<j...@durge.org> wrote in message news:9kp7a0$m9f$1...@dolphin.grid-zero.net...
> James Elder <jamese...@excite.co.uk> wrote:
> : 1. The FISA rule which prohibits male coxes in female crews and female
> : coxes in male crews at international level. It works perfectly well
> : in domestic competition in many countries, so what's the problem?
>
> If they let this happen, would the Olympics allow it too?
>
The Olympics are run to FISA rules, so of course it would be allowed.
Luke
Jeremy Fagan
"Tim Wise" <t...@chw.net.au> wrote
>
> As an old lightweight sculler this troll nearly had me flapping on the
bank.
> :)
For 'old' lightweight, read 'ex-'lightweight?
:)
Jeremy
12'12 and trying to fight it... Just started sculling again this weekend
after a move, and that should help. Losing weight in skin loss off my hands
at the moment, though.
Tim Wise
"Jeremy Fagan" <fag...@remove.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eD0c7.11136$LN3.1...@monolith.news.easynet.net...
>
> "Tim Wise" <t...@chw.net.au> wrote
> >
> > As an old lightweight sculler this troll nearly had me flapping on the
> bank.
> > :)
>
> For 'old' lightweight, read 'ex-'lightweight?
Well I made 70kg this season just gone so I'm not completely ex ,however I'm
not
even close to weight at the moment.
Came close to be an ex-lightweight though, it was difficult to get down
to weight having gone up to 98kg.
> :)
>
> Jeremy
> 12'12 and trying to fight it... Just started sculling again this weekend
> after a move, and that should help. Losing weight in skin loss off my
hands
> at the moment, though.
>
Give it time.
Try some Stamphfli grips, they are relatively soft and wear out rather than
grind you hands away. Some of the softer Croker grips are good too.
Tim
>
Nick Suess
"Tim Wise" <t...@chw.net.au> wrote in message
news:3b70...@nap-ns1.netconnect.net.au...
> > 12'12 and trying to fight it... Just started sculling again this weekend
> > after a move, and that should help. Losing weight in skin loss off my
> hands
> > at the moment, though.
> >
> Give it time.
> Try some Stamphfli grips, they are relatively soft and wear out rather
than
> grind you hands away. Some of the softer Croker grips are good too.
>
> Tim
And as the regular supplier of Stämpfli grips by appointment to Tim Wise, I
can remind rsr folk that I have also had mail order customers for these from
the UK and USA.
Nick
James Elder
> Ah ... but he said a "women's eight".
> Surely this can't happen often though -- I'd think only a superior,
> finely-tuned women's eight would be able to catch a male sculler or a
> testosterone-laden double or pair ...
>
> Sort of relates to one of my pet peeves ...
> ..........................
> Sue
> (over the edge and making sarcastic comments )
>
:)
With you all the way Sue.
To bring in your point about Masters women's rowing, one of my more
enjoyable coxing moments this year was taking a Veteran D Women's
Eight in the Vesta Veterans Head. Having endured quite a bit of the
standard banter from the more chauvinistic elements before the start,
we took great pleasure in completely demolishing many of them in the
race.
I know enough Women's veterans (including the formidable Pauline
Rayner, World Indoor Champion and Record Holder for 60-69 Women)to
never underestimate them.
James Elder
>
> something to steer against? ;)
Hmmm. I do whenever I can, but I'm damned if I'm going to risk
damaging equipment in a clash just for them. I usually wait for them
to overcorrect in the other direction and get tangled up with the
shore. It's normally only a matter of time :)
> 'sides, shouldn't an eight be quick enough to cruise past a 1x or a 2- :)
Chris, as you know very well, from November to February (particularly
the winter just gone) the stream is so vicious if you move even
slightly out from the side that it is more than enough to stall a good
crew. Especially since an eight starts dancing around like nobody's
business in these conditions. Especially if the crew you're
overtaking is overrating by 6 pips. And especially if you're having
to come round the outside of a bend.
Gosh, I love winter on the Tideway!
Ewoud Dronkert
> but you have to give them something for their money, a few
> seconds on the Television every four years is not enough.
True and it's very difficult to break this catch-22. Growth needs funding,
but big bucks are only attracted by large exposure.
> How does Holland fund it's rowing? Government? Corporate sponsors?
Both. The sport *could* survive on institutional funding (by NOC/NSF, Dutch
olympic committee/sports federation) but a substantial amount of money comes
from its main corporate sponsor, IT firm Pink Elephant (now called
PinkRoccade in Holland). That's why the Dutch eight is pink, see
http://www.nlroei.nl/fotoboek/index.php3?fotoid=gwfaxzzcej And it's not by
chance that I brought it up; Pink stops sponsoring Dutch rowing after this
season (ie. in 2 weeks). I haven't heard of any new deals.
Ewoud
Triton Utrecht
Tim Granger
<jr...@twcf.rr.nospam.com> wrote:
>Since things are relatively slow now in the rowing world, In the
>interest of entertainment I solicit your responses to this thread.
>
> Please list your complaints, irritations, slow burns, distractions,
>etc. which concern the rowing world.
1) People who shut the bay doors of the boathouse when they get
back whilst you're still on the river, even though they have
seen that you were out there (but clearly forgotten).
2) People who use your private set of blades, which clearly do
not have a club sticker on them, and have your initials written
on the collars. Especially when they've got a brand new set of
grips on them.
3) The fact that you can't take time off rowing/sculling since
you tend to lose the nice hard areas of skin, and have to go
through the whole blister thing again.
Tim
(all of these just from this morning's paddle...)
Mike De.Petris
(2:333/608.1) scrisse al povero All :
t> In Cambridge, most of the random shouts from the bank show have moved
t> on a level - they now shout 'head sculler' to try and make you stop
t> and look around. However, they haven't quite been able to identify
t> different boat types yet (probably can't count), so will shout this
t> at you even when you're in a double, quad, eight, etc...
You will always looking around to check for the bloody sculler heading at you
8^)
Ciao, ** *Mike* ** www.interware.it/users/mike/ mi...@interware.it
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Mike De.Petris
al povero All :
t> PS Why should be Big companies sponsor Rowing?
To try to infect and destroy our good and clean sport with their bad games.
Ciao, ** *Mike* ** www.interware.it/users/mike/ mi...@interware.it
--
Ti sento, bellissima statua sommersa.... mi ami o nooooo ?
chris harrison
> PS Why should be Big companies sponsor Rowing?
Because I want someone to subsidise my habit :)
chris harrison
> >
> > Shouldn't you be helping them by holding your line, thereby giving them
> > something to steer against? ;)
>
> Hmmm. I do whenever I can, but I'm damned if I'm going to risk
> damaging equipment in a clash just for them. I usually wait for them
> to overcorrect in the other direction and get tangled up with the
> shore. It's normally only a matter of time :)
On a related note, my peeve is mute strokes who, when you're in a coxless
boat of whatever size bearing down on them, say not a word until you're
almost on top of them (and that goes double if they've easied).
> > 'sides, shouldn't an eight be quick enough to cruise past a 1x or a 2- :)
>
> Chris, as you know very well, from November to February (particularly
> the winter just gone) the stream is so vicious if you move even
> slightly out from the side that it is more than enough to stall a good
> crew.
It's not just winter - it's not exactly been the driest of summers and
the river's already showing the signs.
Let's all start praying for some decent dry spells otherwise we'll get no
head racing in this winter, just like the last.
> Especially since an eight starts dancing around like nobody's
> business in these conditions. Especially if the crew you're
> overtaking is overrating by 6 pips. And especially if you're having
> to come round the outside of a bend.
Natch ...
It is pointless to totally muck up your piece just to stay ahead of
another boat - but it's what we all do, isn't it? If you just meekly
submit to a boat in training, then aren't you learning to submit in a
race situation, too?
When I'm in my single I really enjoy being pushed along by marginally
quicker crew boats, annoying them by sticking a length or two off their
bows. And if that then means them having to take a wider line round a
bend - sobeit!
> Gosh, I love winter on the Tideway!
Looking forward to it already.
Hmmm ....
Dave Henderson
>
> Especially fun in midwinter on the tidal Thames when
> rowing against the stream, as the overtaking crew has to either sit
> bearing the brunt of a raging stream or take the rating up to get past
>
Oh, happy memories from - what? - 27 years ago.
My Mortlake Senior C four in a restricted boat could make life very
difficult for the Tradesmen, Quintin or UL first eight trying to
overtake us against the stream. Especially when their cox would call
'through them in 20' and we knew we could hold them off for at least
35.
We didn't jack up the rate, though, just hardened on a bit while
trying to look as nonchalant as we could. Got to learn a lot of new
swear-words that way.
Dave H
With no stream to row against, on the canal in Brussels, Belgium
James Elder
> In article <bd245229.01080...@posting.google.com>, James Elder
> (jamese...@excite.co.uk) said:
> > chris harrison <ne...@vesta.rowing.org.uk> wrote in message news:<MPG.15da38ad3...@news.claranews.com>...
> On a related note, my peeve is mute strokes who, when you're in a coxless
> boat of whatever size bearing down on them, say not a word until you're
> almost on top of them (and that goes double if they've easied).
With you on this one. As a cox, I rely on stroke to let me know of
trouble brewing behind.
> It is pointless to totally muck up your piece just to stay ahead of
> another boat - but it's what we all do, isn't it? If you just meekly
> submit to a boat in training, then aren't you learning to submit in a
> race situation, too?
>
An interesting point. The majority of people (both rowers and coxes)
probably share your view, I would have thought. As for me, I've never
been a compulsive competitor (I sometimes wonder how I got into rowing
in the first place) and tend not to think like that in training. I
remember reading in the Redgrave autobiography that Matt Pinsent is
extremely laid back during training, and drove Sir Steve (and latterly
James Cracknell) crazy by refusing to race when it wasn't necessary.
I agree with him: do the training, and then prove your point in spades
on race-day, but I recognise this may be a minority position.
Of course , when it comes to 2 Thames crews doing side-by-side
training pieces against each other, now that's a different story and
WINNING is the only thing that matters...
j...@durge.org
: It is pointless to totally muck up your piece just to stay ahead of
: submit to a boat in training, then aren't you learning to submit in a
: race situation, too?
IMVHO you are, yes.
Ruscoe, Mark [LON40:7E58:EXCH]
news:bd245229.01080...@posting.google.com...
> chris harrison <ne...@vesta.rowing.org.uk> wrote in message
news:<MPG.15da38ad3...@news.claranews.com>...
> >
> Chris, as you know very well, from November to February (particularly
> the winter just gone) the stream is so vicious if you move even
> slightly out from the side that it is more than enough to stall a good
> crew. Especially since an eight starts dancing around like nobody's
> business in these conditions. Especially if the crew you're
> overtaking is overrating by 6 pips. And especially if you're having
> to come round the outside of a bend.
>
> Gosh, I love winter on the Tideway!
Just been scanning through the "Operational Risk Assesment of the Port
of London 1999 - 2001" (May 2001) on the PLA website and "Collision
between Putney and Richmond" is in the 10 highest ranked hazards (out of
approx 270 identified hazards). It notes that:
"Rowing craft and attending safety boats are permitted to cross the fairway
to
gain advantage of the slower moving adverse current on the inside of bends
between Richmond Footbridge and Fulham Railway Bridge. This practice,
known as 'working slacks' is formalised in Permanent Notice to Mariners 1999
(Notice P5). This practice does not apply to all craft and is considered to
result
in a significant increase in the risk of collision."
Apparently there's going to be a Navigation Advisory Panel convened to
review
the rules, "which will include representatives of all river users
concerned".
(http://www.portoflondon.co.uk/sms.shtml and
http://www.portoflondon.co.uk/rucf.shtml,
River User Consultative Forum (Upper) meeting minutes 17/05/2001)
James Elder
> to
> gain advantage of the slower moving adverse current on the inside of bends
> between Richmond Footbridge and Fulham Railway Bridge. This practice,
> known as 'working slacks' is formalised in Permanent Notice to Mariners 1999
> (Notice P5). This practice does not apply to all craft and is considered to
> result
> in a significant increase in the risk of collision."
>
> Apparently there's going to be a Navigation Advisory Panel convened to
> review
> the rules, "which will include representatives of all river users
> concerned".
>
> (http://www.portoflondon.co.uk/sms.shtml and
> http://www.portoflondon.co.uk/rucf.shtml,
> River User Consultative Forum (Upper) meeting minutes 17/05/2001)
Notice P5 is at http://www.portoflondon.co.uk/readNTM.asp?Item=p5.htm&Section=Pla
Would they really be tempted to get rid of 'working slacks' (first
time I've heard it called that!)? I understand that the last time
this was tried (late 80s, early 90s? - before my time anyway) it was
hurriedly changed back after the entire rowing community howled in
protest.
I have heard that the precise locations of the crossing points are
likely to be tweaked in the near future.
James
Ruscoe, Mark [LON40:7E58:EXCH]
I think they changed it in January '92 and it lasted less than a month.
If you work back through the tables in the risk assesment "Collision between
Putney
and Richmond" is high ranked mainly because of the risk of damage to
property which
looks like it's been rated with a significant chance of >£20000 damage
annually - it
doesn't take many broken boats to get into that range.
I would hope that they would not remove Notice P5 - I don't think it would
reduce the general collision risk and it would move the areas of particular
danger
away from the crossing points (and at the turns of the tide) to bridges and
piers.
Note the description of launches as "attendant safety boats". Which brings
up another
safety issue - I was recently asked how many launch drivers I had seen using
kill cords (safety lanyards) on outboard motors - a basic safety precaution.
Not
many.
> I have heard that the precise locations of the crossing points are
> likely to be tweaked in the near future.
That wouldn't surprise me - the Chiswick crossing point is 250m above
Chiswick
Bridge, but most crew don't get half that distance from the bridge before
crossing.
Ruscoe, Mark [LON40:7E58:EXCH]
1. Coaches in launches who are so intent on watching their own
crews that they aren't aware of any other river traffic. I know
nobody likes getting washed down but no one would get any
coaching without a bit of wash - but when you know the coach who
washed you down hasn't seen you or anyone else - they could have
just as easily run into you though their inattention (or let their crew
run into you - it does happen).
2. People who get abusive on the Tideway when others make
navigational errors. 9 times out of 10 they've compounded the
situation by their own inattention but cover it up by shouting and
swearing.
3. Anyone who seems to think that the direction of the tide as
indicated by "the boats at putney" means that the tide is in the
same direction all over the rest of the Tideway at that particular
point in time (particularly at the bottom of the tide) without actually
looking which way it is flowing in their present location.
chris harrison
> 2. People who get abusive on the Tideway when others make
> navigational errors. 9 times out of 10 they've compounded the
> situation by their own inattention but cover it up by shouting and
> swearing.
Or as I said to someone the other day when she was berating me (I'd been
pushed out quite wide going round the outside of bend against the tide)
"Don't confuse ineptitude with stupidity and your shouting won't solve
either."
> 3. Anyone who seems to think that the direction of the tide as
> indicated by "the boats at putney" means that the tide is in the
> same direction all over the rest of the Tideway at that particular
> point in time (particularly at the bottom of the tide) without actually
> looking which way it is flowing in their present location.
To be fair, when the tide is turning is sometimes quite hard to gauge
when you're actually moving along in the water with it and responding
"but it's turn in Putney/Chiswick" is a reasonable first line of defence.
Being able to then admit that you're wrong and doing something about it
without reacting badly to having your mistake pointed out is a skill that
needs to be mastered too.
Carl Douglas
>of London 1999 - 2001" (May 2001) on the PLA website and "Collision
>between Putney and Richmond" is in the 10 highest ranked hazards (out of
>approx 270 identified hazards). It notes that:
>
>"Rowing craft and attending safety boats are permitted to cross the fairway
>to
>gain advantage of the slower moving adverse current on the inside of bends
>between Richmond Footbridge and Fulham Railway Bridge. This practice,
>known as 'working slacks' is formalised in Permanent Notice to Mariners 1999
>(Notice P5). This practice does not apply to all craft and is considered to
>result
>in a significant increase in the risk of collision."
>
>Apparently there's going to be a Navigation Advisory Panel convened to
>review
>the rules, "which will include representatives of all river users
>concerned".
>
Some years ago the PLA (Port of London Authority), which governs the
tidal Thames, attempted to impose conventional 'Pass port-to-port" rules
on rowing shells. Hitherto the acceptable convention had been that
crews going against the stream held the towpath side - which usually has
a shelving beach or a climbable wall on the stretch above Putney - while
crews with the stream held the centre.
The rowers' objection was that 'port-to-port' left crews plugging
against the ebb (which runs a lot of the time, especially when there's
been plenty of rain) to row on the steeply walled, therefore unscalable
& often rougher, side of a wide river. They were also rather remote
from their cycling coaches (bikes make far less wash than launches,
BTW).
The matter was ably presented by the late Peter Coni QC, as a result of
which the PLA rule was waived for rowing crews.
Of course, if the gist of their accident data is that crews are bumping
into things & being bumped into to an unacceptable degree, then the
safety equation for rowers may not be as simple as it had been assumed
to be. And it has been rumoured, probably maliciously, that crews which
find it absolutely essential to be trailed by high-wake coaching
launches will use any bit of the river which seems to be relatively free
of traffic.
Our problem, as rowers, is that because we now make such heavy use of
certain stretches of water - which is good because it shows the strength
of our sport - may tend to get carried away in an adrenalin rush with
the importance of what our particular crew is currently doing & the
vital necessity of being where we are when we are. Carry that too far,
and the powers that be might start getting shirty, or might even have
become a bit shirty. And we wouldn't want that, would we?
Cheers -
Carl
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JZ, UK
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 Fax: -466550
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)